Prometheus 2 plot, possible just speculation not FACT

"It could be interesting to see what the sin would be that created the Xenomorphs"

Again what the source said is ambiguous, and has to maybe mean one of two things.

Sin as in Daughter of Satan...

Sin as in the sins of Mankind, or even Fallen Angels.

The Sin as in Satans Daughter was created in Paradise Lost as Punishment for Lucifer’s Sin against God, she was birthed from his Head.  I have covered this recently and well Sin in terms of Paradise Lost, was a Part Serpent(Fish) Lower Half with a Female Upper Half.

She Guards the Gate of Hell, and she constantly is cursed with perpetual labour giving birth to Hounds of Hell, these Beasts constantly and breaking her Entrails. Her Tail also has the heads of these hounds and she is depicted as having more growing from her mid section.

Now Sin, when you look into her description and images of her, she is very similar to the Greek Monster Echidna who again is part Woman, Part Serpent and she is the Mother of Monsters having gave birth to a whole manner or Monsters, the most famous being

Orthrus (Two Headed Hound, who Guarded the Cattle of Geryon a Giant who is Grandson of the Gorgon Medusa)

Cerberus (Three Headed Hound that Guards Gates of Hades).

Other offspring included Serpentine Monsters including Gorgons, and Hydra and also the Caucasian Eagle which is the Eagle that was sent as Punishment for Prometheus.

So yes Sin, is similar to Echidna and also Lilith (Lamia) of which a lot of Gigers work is based on.

So when i look at it like this, i can make connections but the source never confirmed any of it they only said that “without Sin, as in context to Paradise Lost there would be no Xeno”  Maybe that could mean Satans Daughter?  In which case, Satans Punishment led to a Creature which in turn gave birth to a whole manner of Monsters....

If i was to try and put what the source vaguely said and fit it with Prometheus Mythos and the Fresco then the Fresco could show Satan, and the creature is Sin, and the Creature holding the Egg is the Birth of Monsters... related to the Xeno.

This is what i figure could be what they mean, but bare in mind all they said was  “without Sin, as in context to Paradise Lost there would be no Xeno”

Which could lead us to Sin being as far as Mankind, or Engineers sinning against God, and then being Punished with the Xenomorph.....

Again they did say that Mankind, played a bigger role in the Xeno Origins, but they also said that Mankind now is 4th or 5th Generation.

As far as Shaw, who knows....

The source did say that regarding the Xenomorph and how its created,  you only need to know the Knowledge and have the Tools to how it was created to Re-Create it

We dont know what happens to Shaw but the Source did say she plays a Smaller Role and she is incapacitated for the most part and is Technically not Dead.

Then yes there was the concept of some Humanoid attached to a bio-mechanical Machine or Contraption... similar to how the deacon Mural was and also said it was like a Bio-Mechanical Version of the robot-girl scene from Superman 3

Now we know Giger has done a lot of work that fits with this, that feature Females and mainly Lilith and sometimes what her referred to as Daughters of Satan.

Does this mean, that we will see similar to Gigers work that Shaw becomes the new Lilith and is connected to a Bio-Mechanical Machine that has a connection to the Xenomorph?

We just cant be sure... for ONE this is me maybe trying to make sense of their comments and TWO this assumes they was telling the Truth.

A L I E N offered a clear linear story with a back ground atmosphere that could be explored.

Ridders after hesitation (Spaihts) decided with Lindelof to frame that back story in Prometheus in an elliptical way so that we were deliberately left with conundrums to solve. It also left room for a sequel which, like Prometheus, has changed direction not necessarily in terms of answers but in terms of narrative and the way those answers are going to be framed and where the greatest light will be shined.

As there is so much interpretation possible which BD provides so many stimulating ideas to fuel, it is easy, for me, to forget there are only a handful of questions :- 

A L I E N 

Why the weapon.

Who was the space jockey.

P R O M E T H E U S  

The Space Jockey is an Engineer whose race had a fall, how did that come about. The answer is actually in Prometheus they created an unauthorised mutagen which got out through an error. We can speculate on the creation of the strain (My view is the sacrificial bowl and sacrificial deacon gives me my answer and that was the ultimate expression of dangerous sub creation documented in the frescos) but for others it can be something else. The theft of fire may remain a mystery, we may only need to know it was, and that theft lead to  to a fall.

David has begun to explore the Black Goo where does that lead him.   

C O V E N A N T

Will provide more detail as to the nature of that fall by the Engineers, the retribution they suffered as a result, which may even be the evolving creature and the bursting of their bonds through the creature (Aka Paradise Lost) . The retribution that they received will also give us a sense of their place in the hierarchy. David may trigger their final downfall but equally he may arrive afterwards. He could be responsible for the bursting of their bonds, in dramatic terms that would not surprise me at all. 

It may also provide us with a separate unique narrative strand sparked by David and may include Shaw and certainly includes David's curiosity of the Goo. 

At  a film design level the political response by the studio to Prometheus will be to make the crew more likeable and heroic (possibly through idealistic naivety and through the mistake of not recognising the doppleganger). The accidents that happen to them will be more relatable for those who thought the Prometheus crew were dumb chancers (They were). The hero and smart guy of Prometheus was David and as he was a f…… Robot thats a difficult one to sell.        

As we are backing into A L I E N I am curious as to whether he will leave the particular Jockey and Derelict  on A L I E N untethered from the narrative that I believe will depend on whether the life cyle created in Covenant is framed as a revival of an ancient cycle or a new cycle. The why Bio Mechanoid suggest its coming rather than revival.

I personally would love to "meet" the Engineer who piloted the derelict to find out why he might have become infected, setting the ship down and triggering the Beacon but only as far as I met the sacrificial engineer who seeded a planet at the beginning of Prom.    

OH and as part of the fabric of the franchise W-Y will have their own nefarious agenda which makes things worse for the Covenant crew.  

Big Dave:

Exactly, it was so ambiguous so it didn’t tell us very much so why have it at all? To me it was another waste that they could have handled in a much better way although it makes sense in the context of the Xeno being a piece in a punishment story. Unfortunately the mural and the fresco could have been expanded a lot more so they would make more sense which they didn’t. Who made these stupid decisions? Was it Ridley? Fox? Lindelof? Who?

The egg fresco makes more sense since you can connect the egg to the Xeno but it still doesn’t say very much. There are many parts of this so yes it makes sense that all these are connected in a way. These are just wasted potentials if you ask me. They are wasted because they could have been told in a much better way.

I think that the punishment led to the Alien that would lay the alien eggs. I am not sure why I think that is the way it was it is just that it makes it much more interesting.

Maybe it could be a fraction of the Engineers that did wrong in a way. I think that it has been mentioned here before that there were two fractions of the Engineers that competed and one got erased but why did it get erased?

As far as Greek mythology I don’t know very much about it but there are things there that they can find inspiration in. Check this out for example about the Erinyes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erinyes They are quoted as being: “female chtonic deites of vengeance”. Maybe they can use this in a way.

Echidna (or how ever you spell her name) seems interesting that she is a sort of source for getting new monsters. Maybe this could be a role that Shaw ends up in? You can use that and put a Giger twist on it, that could work. This could be very interesting to see in the movie.

It is interesting that you mention Lilith and Giger so there we have a connection. Unfortunately Giger isn’t around but you can use that thing for the next movie.

Sin could be what they base the role of Shaw on in the next movie. What if Shaw is connected to a machine and is being forced to give birth to various monsters that the Engineers use as biological weapons? This could be very interesting if they use her like that. Maybe they won’t use Shaw for that role but it could be interesting if we see something similar. If they won’t use her for something interesting then they shouldn’t use her at all IMO or maybe they could show her corpse like how they showed Newt in Alien 3. Hopefully they will do something interesting but I have my doubts.

They could make an interesting explanation of why mankind has an important role to play in the creation of the Xenos. I hope that they won’t mess up the explanation but let’s see.

Michelle J:

I think that they made a mistake to get Lindelof because I would have preferred the script by Spaights. It is not that all of what Lindelof wrote was bad but Spaights was better. Once Fox got their fingers in it and started to interfere it became worse. Hopefully Fox won’t interfere as much this time.

As far as a sequel that is alright but you must have a movie that is interesting enough to make a sequel to because if the first one is a disappointment to many then a lot won’t watch the next one. It won’t help much if the first one is confusing and has many bad characters. Because of the mess that was Prometheus I guess that less people are interested to see Alien Covenant compared to how many persons that were interested in watching Prometheus as a prequel to Alien. Here are some thoughts about Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Prometheus: My main interest in that movie is how the Deacon came about. The answer seems to be Shaw’s boyfriend (what ever his name is, he was boring and stupid for removing his helmet) got some goo that David put in his drink that mutated the boyfriend. He and Shaw have sex which in turn gives birth to the Squid. The Squid impregnates the Engineer which in turn gives birth to the Deacon.

There is definitely a potential to explore the Engineers, unfortunately it was made in a very bad way in Prometheus. I think that some of the cut scenes would have made it a lot better for example when Weyland speaks to them and having subtitles which some one made them dumb decision to cut out.

Alien Covenant: I simply want some answers to the things that we didn’t get in Prometheus. They don’t need to explain everything, for example they don’t need to explain the Ripley connection since it is about more things than just Ripley. Most important is that we get better characters because most of them in Prometheus were written in such a poor way so it became worse than it could have been. Whoever wrote the characters did a bad job, it could also be blamed on the editing but it is probably a combination of both.

They should give some answers to the goo also but not too much. I would prefer to get the answer to why it was created but we don’t need to know how it works in detail because you can guess that from Prometheus (it breaks down cells and transforms them into new forms of life which in general are aggressive).

David should play an important role because to me he was by far the best character in Prometheus. I think that there is a potential for character development here but there should be character development among the other roles also just as people develop throughout life. To me Daniels seems to play an important role so they need to make her interesting, something that they didn’t with Shaw.

The Spaights Draft was very Alieny, it had some flaws too, but it gave the framework for which Lindeloff was brought in to change a few things and make this movie not a Direct Prequel, and also tone down the Xeno DNA and concentrate and evolve the aspects of the Engineers and Mankind relation as Spaights draft laid the foundation

If you read Lindeoffs draft you will notice its better than the Movie we ended up with, because his Draft was not the Final Shooting Script changes where made.

And then Editing took care of a few things, but also Ridley may be to blame for some of it as far as how much time was spent observing the Mural and Fresco.

But Ridley and Lindeloff  went out it as far as the draft and how the movie was shot, so as to give the movie a bit of Ambiguity.  So that the Answers are not Spoon fed and so everyone will start to have their own theories and discus the movie...

If Prometheus was more Spoon Fed, then the only main discussion we would have here would been about the movie prior to release and then speculating on a sequel.

Lindeloff made some good changes, but there was flaws... between Both Spaights and Lindeloffs there is ground work for a ALTERNATIVE Draft, which i was going to do... a Draft that re-writes them both but it would have 60-70% Lindeloffs, 15-20% Spaights and the rest would be odd bits added by my to tie it together.

I never got round to it, but maybe i may do a re-write i have thought elements through and my additions and edits would give good reasons for some of the stupid elements, as all it took was a few pieces of dialog.

But yes there was clues but they could have been highlighted a bit more, and more screen time given to the Fresco and Mural..  with odd bit of minor dialog added.

Holloway, Shaw and Milburn had made a few comments about the Head Statue, Mural and Frescos but some of it was not giving no clues...  "Beautiful paintings" while others did, or maybe did but maybe needed that touch more.. i.e "Just another Tomb" and "his that their God"

@BD I just read the Lindelof draft and focused on the sub creative mythos elements. The ending dialogue is more elegant the decision to head for Paradise but what struck me is the Mural and Cup/Crystal Green Shape are absent and Charlie has his tomb dialogue out side of the door.

What is communicated much more effectively is the painting which disappear are likened to Frescoes, in other words works of religious and cultural significance and the reason they crumble is quite straight forward. It is the same reason that ancient artefacts deteriorate when they are exposed to the natural elements. The headroom in the draft is more a laboratory.

I do not see Lindelof's draft as clarifying the mythos I think introducing the piles of bodies and the sacrificial deacon where Easter Eggs which would lead to speculation.

What is more clear is the headroom is like the Sistine Chapel a place which reflects on the beliefs and achievements of the engineers. The head may symbolise the focus around which they show their achievements and therefore if they have "fallen" is their Lucifer image. Certainly including the mural was a piece of Giger Code and gave us pictorially a link between the Black Goo and how it could result in the Deacon and the coming Zeno.  

Yes the Drafts both did offer a bit of detail, but yes some things on the movie sets that was not described in detail or even mentioned in the drafts.

Why i was thinking of doing a re-write as i think if someone had done so before shooting between both Drafts there would have been a good movie in there.

But when looking at it, i think it would have to be 70/30% in favour of elements based on Lindeloffs and then add bits to Tidy up and explain a few things better.

@BD I know it sound presumptuous to do re writes but it is actually a very interesting exercise. As a life long Tolkien fan who followed the genesis of the Hobbit I know there was a really wonderful adult take on the children's story and the only way I became certain was to rewrite the narrative track. I spent 150 hours on it and it was a real eye opener for me as to what I need in a movie even at my age. 

In the case of Prometheus the scene with Vickers and Janek should have been in and the young Weyland scene which like the Ted Talk gave Weyland some real breadth and journey.     

I thought the Fifield gone mad scene was a distraction and it would have flowed better if the larger party had set off for the derelict with Fifield in a much more "Zeno'd state" attack the party who held him off and the holding up party all died with the image of the changing dead Fifield the last shot before they reach the Jockey room making a clear connection for the audience.

The back story to the mural, not the fresco, and the sacrificial green cup in the trailer and the green object should have made it clear to the audience that those experiments had resulted in the mutagen left as a symbolic achievement to the head. 

I am not convinced we needed the Deacon indeed unless the Deacon is threaded into Covenant having not been explained in the hologram or mural I would have left the Engineer with his stomach about to explode so the audience is left with their first life cycle. On the other hand if they had made a clear link between the Deacons head fused into the alter, the mural and a holographic image as well as the scream then the busting would have explained everything neatly to the audience. 

Big Dave:

I think that the Spaights script was better than the one by Lindelof even though Lindelof did a better script compared to what became the final movie. This is why I would have liked a movies based on the Spaights script better, it makes more sense even though everything shouldn’t be spoon fed so my preferred version would have been Spaights combined with a little bit of Lindelof. My guess is that the script if we would have had it more like the original would have had less stupid and uninteresting characters. 70% Spaights 30% Lindelof would probably have been my preferred version even though it seems that all that Lindelof did wasn’t in the movie but it seems that his draft was less stupid than what we got but still I would have preferred more of Spaights if I would have to choose. My reason for siding with Spaights is that it would have been more connected to Alien (1979) which the reason why I think that Prometheus is interesting at all.

The Engineers are not uninteresting but they should have extended the part that was dedicated to the Xeno and the monsters so it would be clearer how the Xeno came to be although it shouldn’t be extremely obvious. Eventually they could have explained more about the Engineers also because if they would have then people might not have had the reaction to it that these were bald guys that didn’t make sense or that the story was just plain dumb. Prometheus is a movie that many have strong and different opinions about. After all the Alien movies are not very obvious either so that is alright.

Yes the mural and the fresco should have been explained better. I am not sure why but they seemed to rush that part where they explained that or maybe that is just my feeling about it. They should have had more dialogue about it and spent less on visual clues.

That is fine if people discuss the movie because of some things that are not spelled out but when you write it so you have bad characters, things that contradict each-other, things that don’t make sense, important parts that are left out (look at the documentary of how they made Prometheus or compare the drafts to the final movie) and so on, then it is a failure to an extent. Prometheus is still OK even though I don’t enjoy it as much as I did when it was released. Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3 still works for me, Resurrection though *cough*.

Sorry but I think that Lindeloff made it worse, but that is a matter of subjective taste. Yes I think that the stupid elements should either have:

1. Been explained better

or

1. Edited away

It would have been better if they could have been able to explained better but if you can’t explain an important part of the movie then it should be cut out, that is my opinion.

Just another tomb that Holloway said doesn’t really say that much but maybe I am partially to blame here since English isn’t my main language.

Another update from the source and it appears they will not be giving away anymore as they have already covered pretty much the broad strokes of the Plot they had to take a sequel forwards from Prometheus, where it would evolve upon the Mystery’s and Questions of Prometheus and give some answers but also raise few more (less ambiguous) Questions.  While at the same time giving a few more Clues to the Xenomorph, LV-223/426 without having to Spoon Feed every last aspect and especially the Story of the Space Jockey from the just another day at the office to his death.  Its not needed.

This was the idea for Prometheus Part 2-3

The information they had passed on to the person who passed it onto me, they said has covered those broad strokes without going more into detail to spoil the plot....  but they have said that indeed changes look like they have been made and its hard to tell how much as we have seen so little so far but it has changed from the Paglen/Green Work....  they have not had no insight into Alien Covenant by John Logan... but it appears Elements from the earlier draft are carried over while other elements are changed and added.

They cant say if the extent of changes are similar to the Evolution of Spaights Alien Engineers to Lindeloffs Paradise, and so they cant give a % of what has been changed.  But it appears some changes have been made in Hindsight to Reception of Prometheus compared to Spaights more Alieny Draft.

It seems its more of a case of, lets answers those Questions and get back to the Alien Connection first and more so, leaving space to explore other elements that would step away from Alien at a latter date.

They said it could be like in Hindsight maybe if they Evolved Spaights draft to be more Alieny explored and give more answers to Alien, then latter when people have those Answers they would then want to know WHY? And Connections to Engineers and their History.. having found out about the Xeno and its Origin and Purpose and to a degree WHY/HOW in a Alien  Prequel (Spaights)  while giving some foundations for the Engineers and History and Agenda would maybe have been the better option...

Fans Basically get more clues about the Xeno, Eggs and Why.... and when they are pleased, maybe Fans would then want to learn more about these beings who was behind the creation of the Xeno, well the Biology and Reasons for it... and so a 2nd, 3rd movie could explored the Species behind the Space Jockey.

But Fox felt that the Xeno elements and answers could be toned down, and lay seeds to explore who the Space Jockey/Engineers where and this could be explored more than the Xeno.. but in hindsight they may have gone about it in the wrong order.

And so the Source has said it seems Alien Covenant is a attempt to still cover what they had planned but to tone it down/not explore it in depth but concentrate on the Xenomorph Elements more.... basically a reverse Evolution of Spaights to Lindeloffs.

They don’t know what will happen in Covenant, they have a few ideas as it seems it is following some of the Green/Paglen ideas but they cant say how much this would be... But they are no longer going to drop any more clues because of a chance of giving away maybe what Alien Covenant could cover.

They did give some more slight clues but they said they wont be making any more comments about what the old drafts had, but that there was plenty they had covered as it is.

They did expand upon a few things.

They said that indeed they are touching upon the Gods, and Dragons but that they are tone down the Gods part as far as details, but its loosely connected to the connections that can be made by Many Cultures,  the Ancient Astronaught idea...  but not in a too literal manner  but in a manner that if you take Monotheism and Polytheism there are common themes and its a case of what if these Religons, Mythos all stemmed from a real event and what we have is interpretations that changed of such a real universal events.  They said if you looked at the common themes especially Biblical Paradise Lost Theme and Stories of Prometheus the Titan and similar themes seen in Matrix and Blade Runner and mix them into a bowl then the end product is what they was going for.

And we should not try and look at a too Literal Connection.

They said that Prometheus did have a lot of answers that was all vague and so only by touching upon them in the next Movie you can make sense, they said the event that happened to Shaw as far as creation and the Frescos and Murals are similar.

The movie is about Creator, Creation, Rebellion and Punishment over and over Generation by Generation,  and it does not start with the Engineers and may not end with David 8.

As far as creation and who is creator, they said the Question to be asked is who is the CREATOR what makes a Creator, and Prometheus posed these Questions on Multiple Levels, the next movie would have expanded this....  but its to look at what makes a Creator, they said when we look at what happened to Shaw, and what the Engineers where doing, its how do we connect it because there are connections the Mural and Frescos show part of creation too, and so does the Start of the Movie and what happened to Shaw... they are all at the base level connected... they all connect to a CREATION Origin...

They said they cant give much away but when we look at Shaw, if we look at when a Man and Woman Procreate to create a Child... does the Mother and Father become the creators? They indeed created life... but does that make Parents a Creator?  Like the Chicken and Egg, its a case of who was the First Man and Woman and how they came to be, are they the creator of every child born... or who ever created first Man and Woman.

Therefore they said if we look at Shaw and Holloway then the Baby Trilobite its then while Shaw is the Mother is she the Creator?  What role did Holloway play?  Are they the creators of the Deacon as it was due to their Child?

Or was David the creator because he instigated the event... or is it who ever created the Biological Concoction in those Ampoules is that the Ultimate Creator of the Deacon.  We have a event where this Concoction was used  (without consent of those who created it, and those who it was being used on) the result was a experiment, which then gave birth to New Life, which then Gave Birth to another New Life...

They said when you look at that, then the Mural and Fresco could come more to life as far as whats going on... but off course they wont go into exact detail. But they said the Movie had clues not only visually, but also Narrative etc. They agreed they was never well executed and a bit ambiguous and that the drafts gave a clearer insight as far as how the clues would fit and that Lindeloffs draft had more clues that when combined with what Ridley had said are what is closer to adding things together but sadly not every aspect of that draft made it to screen that would have made things easier...

But the aim was to loosely touch upon stuff but me less ambiguous, and while it would not directly cover the Space Jockey we would have no questions really to what would have happened, they said clues was in Prometheus but more so in Lindeloffs drafts that would also gave a timeframe that sadly did not make it to screen.

These comments are regards to the Engineer Outbreak and Connection to the Xeno and LV-426.

From what i can work out they could be implying that David using something he was not meant to, led to Shaw Carrying some unplanned/desired Life Form... as a experiment of Rebellion against Creator? or if not (for that reason) jus that indeed it made Shaw carry something, that was taken from her that then went on to then produce another Life Form.

If the source hints this connects to the Mural and Fresco, i am not sure it does as a Prophecy, but with Shaw we see something related to the Black Goo Experiments is carried out on her, she then has removed NEW ORGANISM 1 which then goes on to via Engineer to make NEW ORGANISM 2 now... how would that connect to the Fresco as we see Engineer (Shaw) and that creature (Trilobite) then that creature maybe holding a Egg (Deacon).  Or have it got that wrong?

Do they mean the Mural which shows different Face Huggers are they attempts to create the Deacon in the Mural, or did the Deacon come first as in the Mural we see 3 Phases but its what order... what order does Deacon, 2 different Face Hugers, and Hosts have... what order is the creature with the Egg and Engineer?

As far as Timeframe well, before when they mentioned Prometheus had clues, they not only meant what we could see easy but also clues we may have missed... things not shown enough and so yes Mural, Fresco and Cryo-Busted Engineers seem to be the case.  So when looking at Lindeloffs draft he does go into detail more about the Hologram Engineer Scene that David sees when he is sitting at the Control Panel and in Lindeloffs draft the scene is longer, has more Engineers and they are calm and then David fasts forwards through the recording until there is just one Panicked.....  in Lindeloffs Draft the Engineer leaves for a Corridor and not the Cryo Sleep Chamber in the Control Room.

During this scene, Lindeloff seems to point to not knowing the time of the recordings David was fast forwarding and it could have past years or CENTURIES, and i think if we look at Ridleys comments about the Event of the Space Jockey being within a hundred years of the LV-223 Outbreak 2000 years ago... we never knew if he meant as far as prior or post outbreak.  But then when i consider his other comments about something Evolving, and his last comments on the Space Jockey about something had Evolved and got to the Space Jockey....

Then i wander if the source is implying that something Evolved after the outbreak and maybe some Engineers went into Cryo-sleep to awake and find their Cargo had Evolved? But this conflicts my interpretation of the Mural as them Sacrificing something related to the Deacon Mural/Xeno to create the Black Goo...... is it now that the Black Goo instead evolved something?

As far as the Engineers, they said again they are not the creators, and there is a pattern of creation and that David has more in common with them and he would be following the same path but they said they best not cover that no further.....

And we need to not look at the Biblical and Paradise Lost connections as being a Factual event as far as how we interpret them... but a actual event that spans further than our World.  And that the Mythos and Religious elements are loosely covered but not bound to our World as those Religions and Mythos are concerned... they said for example Hades/Hell and Paradise are in Literal Sense on Earth in those fables but in context of the Franchise they expand further.  And that Rebellion and Creation, Chain of events repeats and Forbidden Knowledge passed on or stolen by those not intended to know or use it  would make these Creations as Powerful as the Creator.  But when stealing Fire, you get burnt and that also by going against the will of a Father will bring Punishment for disobedience.   But sometimes Punishment does not make the Son Respect the Father, but provides further motives for Rebellion and eventually the Son will over throw the Father.

I am puzzled to say the least... 

The source had said they had covered clues with what they had said in the past however, and seems they are not willing to go into any more details.

Again they are cryptic and who even knows if they are ever telling the Truth....  it certainly is a puzzle, and i keep trying to work out what they meant when they said that in context to the Paradise Lost.... “without Sin, there would be no more Xenomorph” and how in Paradise Lost context to the movie plot.... the changing of some of the Fallen Angels to Serpents freed them from Bondage.

They did say that there has been images on the internet (since 2nd movie was underway) in relation that is pretty close to the idea for the ONE MONSTER, and its a fresh take on the HR Giger Masterpeice. That was to be used in the Green/Paglen Draft and they said the movie touches upon a repeating events..  and themes.

Does this mean regarding where they said before Two Monsters, one was from a past event and another a New Post Prometheus Event at the hands of David?  But if so which connects to the Xeno and Eggs in Alien?

Apparently in everything they have covered which they have done in a way to not Spoon Feed Spoilers, does cover the broad plots of what the Green/Paglen Drafts had and it seems John Logan has not abandoned all those ideas.

oh i forget to mention... they said the Goo was Originally a Parasite and Alive.....  But they had chose to Evolve it to being something much more and a Catalyst for all Organic Life. And thus a Forbidden Fruit of Life/Death.

The Tree of Life and Knowledge that also can lead to death.

BD thanks for the update. I think your conversations with the source resolve around two issues where the outcomes so far are quite different.

The creation mythos which I am inclined to think is fairly well established in Prometheus. A hierarchy has bequeathed on the Engineers the role of gardeners of the universe. Those gardeners have stolen the fire and interfered with creation and suffered retribution and punishment as a result. The creation of the Zenomorph strain/mutagen has had Promethean significance for the Engineers which will be elaborated on through David and Elizabeths coming to Paradise and the consequences for the Covenant crew.

What I think is less clear and is the element that your source does not answer, even regarding the released film, is the precise nature of the chronological history and interrelationship between LV223 and LV426. We know from the interviews in 2012 what Ridleys broad intention was that they co existed in the past (within a few hundred years). LV426 could have happened before the collapse of LV223 or it could have been executed by one of the Engineers who fled to the headroom or a returning Juggernaut could have picked up this more evolved cargo.   

For myself the elliptical solution that it was one of a number of consequences of the out break on LV223 is just fine. However with a film up coming which plans to explain the why the Zeno, and the source makes it clear they know nothing of John Logan's input, just as the film will more literally deal with the Zeno so may it more literally deal with the events of LV426. If I had to put on my "what would the more general audience need" hat on it would be more connectivity with what he is backing into. Once you start showing eggs then there are a range of ways you can imply specifically where the original Juggernaut fits into the chronology without making it end up right down to the narrative backing in. However we have not seen eggs other than in the murals so that would be a chance to show whether it is past or future.   

Yes the source only had claimed information on the Green/Paglen draft, but said it appears elements are being carried over.

As far as the Prometheus 2 movie and 3rd they said the aim was to  spread over Two movies and 2nd would loosely give clues to the Xenomorph but it would not be a Spoon Fed, direct prequel..... they said by the time the prequels had finished we would have more of a clue and answers to the Xeno Origins but without having a Spoon Fed Space Jockey Flick.

They did say that Prometheus had clues, but they was vague and not shown enough, but that early drafts did give the Answers away...

The Green/Paglen Draft would have given clues to a LV-223/426 connection by the time the franchise was done we would have more clues but it would not show us the Space Jockeys full day at the office as they called it.

But we now have the Alien Covenant that is now seeming to cover the Xeno elements more.... but even Ridley said while it backs into Alien we would not get a Space Jockey Story....  but they may do that as a 3rd movie in the NEW Alien Prequel series.

So i think on both accounts, we dont need to see the Space Jockey getting on his ship and how the Eggs got there and then how he got infected and where he was going and then seeing him chest busted to give us the answers of Where those Eggs came to be and what purpose they had.

Big Dave:

I think that is a good thing that they will give more questions that are less puzzling. There should be some questions left after they are done with the Alien prequels so I am totally fine with that. As long as the answers that we get are not lame and the characters are well developed it is all good I think.

They could give us some clues about the Xeno but we don’t need to know what it eats or if it shits acidic turds (LOL!).

Having some drafts to look at and then to pick out good pieces from all might be a way to go. Hopefully these that do this have a sense of a good story with believable characters and so they also know what makes tension of it is a movie that is supposed to be like that. 

So they have learned some from how it went when they went from Spaights to Lindelof; that is a good thing. I really hope that Fox isn’t interfering as much this time since they seem to be the biggest problem why Prometheus became the way it did.

In my opinion they should revisit some of the things that they were trying to answer in Prometheus but failed to do or else it will just be to forget Prometheus and move on from there. That would still make Prometheus look more lame than it could be.

Yes I agree that they should have kept more of Spaights draft and messed less with it because there the characters were a lot better which is a huge reason why Prometheus failed because the characters were too lame (the exceptions being David and the captain). At least some of the cut scenes should have been kept as well because they made the movie make a whole more sense. Without these cut scenes it becomes confusing and well not very good (which isn’t to say that Prometheus is a total let down).

They shouldn’t give us all the answers to the Xeno but those that we will be given should make sense. I wouldn’t mind if they will make another movie about the Engineers as long as things make sense and the human characters (my emphasis) are alright and make sense while the movie isn’t over explanatory. Alien and Aliens wouldn’t have been such sucessess if the human characters would have been badly written or how they were on screen.

Prometheus maybe has some answers but they were badly executed so I am not sure if people feel like going back and search for them. In a way I think that Alien Covenant is a way to start all over (but not totally).

“They agreed they was never well executed and a bit ambiguous and that the drafts gave a clearer insight as far as how the clues would fit and that Lindeloffs draft had more clues that when combined with what Ridley had said are what is closer to adding things together but sadly not every aspect of that draft made it to screen that would have made things easier...”

Which means that they have hopefully learned from their mistakes but they should have thought about that before they released the movie (Prometheus).

The Trilobyte was OK so maybe they could have something similar in P2? Some people maybe didn’t like it but I think that it was OK.

Hopefully they won’t rely as much on murals and so on this time but that they will try to explain things in a better way. If they rely on murals and so on then it seems to me that you need to be 100% alert throughout the whole movie and I am not sure if most people are that when they sit down two hours plus and watch a movie if they are not extremely interested. Casual viewers might not care as much, but this is a guess. Maybe the hologram sequence could have been longer (when we see the Engineers running from something)? To have it being a bit longer could have helped some. Perhaps it doesn’t matter how old that sequence is what matters is that it happened because it helps to give some clues.

If the black goo evolved something then it must have something to pour into (just like you can’t only have water or a plant to get a flower) or else it wouldn’t work. Maybe the Engineers didn’t see when and how it evolved and got surprised?

Alright, so if the Engineers are not the creators then who or what is it? Maybe there is some hierarchy above the Engineers (as I think have been mentioned in some discussions here in the past). David has more in common with them, who are them and in what way are they and David connected?

New monsters would be cool, monsters that don’t need to be related to the Xeno at all but that could still be inventions that the Engineers did. I think that this could be interesting since it would expand the role of the Engineers and have them as the biggest threat while still showing more monsters.

“So i think on both accounts, we dont need to see the Space Jockey getting on his ship and how the Eggs got there and then how he got infected and where he was going and then seeing him chest busted to give us the answers of Where those Eggs came to be and what purpose they had.“

Maybe, if they explain it in a good way. If they have the Space Jockey when he gets on the plane as the last scene then it would explain it.

Why did they ruined the movie with this Alien nonsense - I want Ancient Alien style plot. Not some creature from a super hit movie in the 80s.

Triceradon: I disagree, it would have been worse as a stand-alone movie but since we will get a follow-up (more tied to Alien) it will probably be better IMO but it depends a lot if they will get better characters this time. To me it wouldn't have been very interesting without the Alien ties but that is about personal taste although I admit that it wasn't very clear that it was a prequel to Alien.

I think they indeed would learn from mistakes regarding the ambiguity or Prometheus..... but i still think they would want to create a few Mysteries and i also think they would have some things a bit vague so that we have to go and watch the Movie more than once to make out some things we could have missed.

But i think the main Plot would have to be written and shown in a way that is less ambiguous unless any ambiguous things they will do in a way that hints they would be cleared up in the next movie after the Prometheus sequel.

"Alright, so if the Engineers are not the creators then who or what is it? Maybe there is some hierarchy above the Engineers (as I think have been mentioned in some discussions here in the past). David has more in common with them, who are them and in what way are they and David connected?"

Who knows... it could be as far as being created to serve a certain purpose? 

UPDATE INCLUDES XENOMORPH INFORMATION

The contact that i had with the Source had claimed they made a few comments regarding Alien Covenant in relation to the older Prometheus 2 Draft.

They said that there seems to be a number of things carried over from the earlier drafts but they have not in any way seen the John Logan draft, but themes and parts seem to have been carried over.

The Covenant name, does have a connection to element/theme of the movie. They said that it would fit in part with some of the old drafts and especially regarding the Agenda of Shaw and her Questions as she wants to know why was Mankind Forsaken and Abandoned, the Paglen/Green Draft would have seen them getting to a World Related to the Engineers but it is not the Homeworld as per say, but the Outpost for the Galaxy. And they would have met up with multiple beings and we would find that there is a multiple tier system to creation, and our creation is nothing special.  Shaw was in a state of disappointment at what she found by going to LV-223 as far as what she had hoped they would find, but she still wishes to pursue faith but what she finds out will Question her faith even more because she will get somewhat answers but they are not what she would have expected and futher goes against the ideology she had regarding our creation by God, we are not special,  the Creators have a Monogamous view on creation.

But they would have met a number of beings.

They can not speculate about the Covenant Crew and when/how they arrive at Paradise, but the Paradise David/Shaw arrived at in Green/Paglen draft was towards the Galactic Centre past the Pillars of Creation and a World within the Constellation of Ophiuchus.

They said the old draft had 3 main Plot Points and by that, Prometheus really had two. The main one being the Journey of the Prometheus Ship and its crew and what it discovers and ultimately its fate.  They said that Shaw and Davids Quest was not the main Plot, and Shaws role was on the small part but yet a big role.  The movie was more about David but the main theme for the movie was Creation, Rebelion, Forbiden Knowledge and how such knowledge corrupts and the use of such knowledge leads to not only getting burnt by playing with fire but also punishment for possessing forbidden knowledge and rebellion.

And this is on multiple levels, its a tale of repeated Father/Son and Creator/Creation Conflict where the one sees the other as getting weaker and wishes to dethrone and replace the Order of things and in-turn repeat the Cycle.  The Prometheus Mythos and Fables fit this theme and so does the Biblical accounts as far as Paradise Lost take on them.

That the events of those Mythos and Religions have a basis but they are not to be a basis considered in regards to Earth... its Pans wider than that, and events had occurred but its case of which Generation did this occur and where does our True Origin Stem from...  and the Fables are set with Mankind, Gods on Earth.... but as we find out Paradise is not as Mankind has associated with regards to Earth... and that there is not just ONE EARTH in that context.

The idea was also to not only showcase Creation, but creation is more than merely the Sacrificial Scene,  this Scene could not have no benefit or work as it would have on a Baron Waste of a World... and so these Engineers Terraform Worlds too, which the Process is similar but more Advanced than we saw in Aliens...  the Engineers Manipulate Storms as the process these can make a Planet in Terraforming Stage Hostile  they can do more than merely what Weylands attempts do... The Engineers Terraforming can drastically Manipulate a Climate, drastically change the the Climate not only in Temperatures but could control how baron a world can be, or how wet it can be and that perhaps the Great Floods of the Past, and Iceages are not Accident they are Manufactured for the purpose of setting up a New Enviroment to begin Creation or Start over.

There was the idea to lay seeds that there was more to these Bald Humanoid beings than simply being a race who create and possess deadly Bio-Weapons to use against Threats, or in fits of Jealously.   They don’t want to spoil things, but yes the Engineers are not Gods, they are not even the top of the Hierarchy.  But part of the common theme... which Davids role is also placed within this repeating theme....  and Prometheus did have clues to the above in regards to David and the Engineers.

Regarding the Xenomorph...

They said Green/Paglen Drafts were not based on a Xeno movie, in fact Technically we don’t even get the Xenomorph  but its not needed, Prometheus did not have the Xenomorph but was trying to set clues to it and the movie had clues just they could have been emphasised better.  The Prometheus 2 idea would have been to loosely connect events of Engineers, Xeno and LV-223 and there would be TWO related Monsters, one a previous event the other a event Post Davids arrival....

They said that the Movie would only contained 20% Xenomorph related scenes,  they would be done in similar context to Prometheus but more DNA related and in a way thats less ambigious, but they said its not going to be a Spaights Alien Engineers but they said even Alien Engineers was not really a Xenomorph movie, but they consider Prometheus 2 to have been a more Xenomorph movie than Prometheus.

Prometheus only had the ONE Monster related although other clues where abundant in the ideas,  they said when we talk about MONSTER that the Shaw C-Section to Deacon Chest Buster should be considered as ONE MONSTER....  the movie also had Two More Monsters as a way of explaining and giving clues to creation... but was not what they call Xeno Creations as far as being close to the aim of a Xenomorph but are still valuable clues to the Processes.

They said Prometheus was more a Origin movie than Spaights Alien Engineers, as far as showing is what is involved... Alien Engineers just showed the aftermath.. of creation and experiments but had mild clues to HOW... but mainly covered WHY... They said Alien Engineers had what you would consider THREE MONSTERs... plus you could consider Fifield in that to make it a 3+1 and Prometheus was a 1+ mild 2 kind of Xeno  related Monsters.

Prometheus 2 has mild clues... but without spoiling anything it would mainly be the aim to show TWO MONSTERS but these again only 20-25% total of the actual Plot/Draft, they said the Monsters they knew the One Design was going to be a Fresh Take on HR Gigers Necornom IV the design not far off the unused Ultramorph and the other Monster would also be based on a early/unused concept... both would look different as in we can see the Xenomorph in the whole Franchise as looking very much similar including AVP movies....  But these Two Monsters are to a degree different but then they both look like the Xenomorph in kind of a hybrid way as if the Xenomorph was a hybrid of both ideas.  They will not say which Event is which Monster and they also said when the Term TWO MONSTERS is used we should look at more to it than that but that we need to accept it as Two Monsters the same as Egg, Face Huger, Chest Buster and Xenomorph and then Trilobite Fetus, Adult Trilobite and Deacon Chest Buster events are to be considered TWO MONSTERS

But also that Spaights draft had shown Three Xenomorph related Monsters but the actual Xeno related body count was 5 Monsters... in 3 different varieties...   They said so while we have TWO MONSTERS it would not have been a Alien and Alien 3 but it certainly was not a Aliens or AVP Flick....  More like a mix of Spaights and Lindeloffs Xenomorph encounters but not as  much as Spaights as it has one less Monster and also the One Monster is a set up.

They said that Prometheus did hold a lot of clues to what the process would entail,  and they said that you don’t have to Show the Space Jockey and his Eggs to be able to get the Answers to HOW/WHY and the When is the more Important Question.... And that the Process is something than can lead to similar things and its a process that can be re-created provided you have the Knowledge and Tools to do so.

But the movie was to be less on the side of Xenomorphs.... they said Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien R where Xenomorph Movies....  Alien Engineers would have too but also explored other theme... Prometheus decided to ambiguously give us a Xeno theme while setting up something else and Prometheus Pandemonium would have evolved that other direction setting up seeds to evolve into something else, but it would also given clues to the Xenomorph in a less ambiguous manner than Prometheus did...  and while it wont feature as much Xenomorph DNA as Alien Engineers it would give more clues to HOW/WHEN and WHY which Alien Engineers did not really get into detail with and left ambiguous too.

I’ve forgotten a few things said, maybe they come back to me if so i will update but i think thats most of it.

Big Dave: Having a few mysteries is alright, that’s what made Alien work but things got to make sense which is what they didn't do in Prometheus. One of the problems with Prometheus was that things were too ambiguous so they didn't make sense but I think that it was because of bad writing who ever did that. I also hope that they won't make everything too obvious but there is a need for a balance there.

I am glad that the answers that Shaw gets goes against her beliefs because they are dumb. It is good that they have given Shaw a smaller role this time. The creation and forbidden knowledge can be interesting but that depends on how they deal with it.

As far as terraforming that is something that they had in Aliens, right? That was human terraforming so it could be a bit interesting that they show a bit about how the Engineers do that in contrast to human terraforming (which would be a nice nod to Aliens) but as I have written before that is not my main interest when it comes to this movie.

Did Prometheus have clues about the beings above the Engineers? If so that was very badly done because I didn't see anything of these hints (but that wasn't my main interest in the movie so that probably has got something to do with it).

The Xeno doesn't have to be the main focus in this movie IMO. As far as I know the Engineers have made more monsters than that so that would be interesting to see. The Squid alien was interesting and you can say that the Engineers with the goo was somehow responsible for the Fifield zombie but the Fifield zombie was very disappointing (although I understand that they wanted to move away from the Xenos in a way). One thing that would be cool if they would have a monster that the Engineers did that doesn’t look like a Xeno at all, that would give the engineers a bigger role and would show that they can do more monsters than just the Xeno and Xeno related things (like a Xeno family if you prefer to call it that). Maybe the monsters wouldn’t have more in common than the fact that the Engineers did them? I think that would be the best and it could work if they do it in a good way and really think it through.

As far as 20% Xeno related scenes that is alright since one fifth is kind of large anyways. To those that want more Xeno in this maybe at least some of them will think that the amount is alright. If they are done more clearly than how they were done in Prometheus it would be a good thing. Speaking of Xenos I still wish that they would have kept the Fifield Xeno in Prometheus but someone made a messed up decision.

Maybe the Spaights script wasn't a Xeno movie but it was still a lot better than what we got on screen (which is not to say that it was perfect). The characters in the Spaights script were a lot better and to me that is the most important thing because it is those that we are supposed to see ourselves in, right?

I think that they should at least show when the Space Jockey takes off with the ship, it would make sense.

I think you come from the certain fanbase that was disappointed about the Xeno connection.... some did want it even more than maybe you would have liked and also it ending with the Space Jockey...

Spaights seemed to hint at such a scene... but would have left plot holes unless the Engineer ship crashed a bit further than those Engineer Complexes... mind you after Alien  it took the Colony on Hadleys Hope a long time to discover the near by Derelict so who knows.

But surely a crashed human ship near by would have been detected when the Nostromo or at very least Hadleys Hope was set up on LV-426

"Did Prometheus have clues about the beings above the Engineers? If so that was very badly done because I didn't see anything of these hints"

Its one of those where it never really did, its mainly Ridley Scots comments that pointed to this.... Prometheus just mainly showed it when you look at how David said that LV-223 was not the Engineers Homeworld.... and Shaw in spite of finding the Engineers all dead, and wanted to destroy us and were mortal after all and we was as Holloway said just a experiment that anyone with a petre dish and DNA could do.

Shaws answer was WHO CREATED THEM!  The Engineers.

After Prometheus came out Ridley had made a few comments.... he hinted that the Elders Scene was cut because it was not needed and he wanted to not meet God in the first movie... he also hinted these Elders did not look as Godlike as maybe Godlike beings should be.

Right away this would show the Engineers are not God, but it does not mean the Gods are much different as we could be looking at how the Egyptians view of Gods where Pharaohs are Gods incarnate.

Ridley had dropped a few clues, calling Engineers Fallen Angels... which if this is the case then Angels are not the Top of the Creation Tree.

Noomi Rappace commented on not long after Prometheus was on DVD about a sequel and she is interested in where Ridley will be taking them and that they would be meeting God.. or maybe the Devil.

The source in March 2015 gave a lot of information loosely to what the plan was, that seemed back up Ridleys idea after Prometheus but go against his comments at the time of early 2015..... and the source touched upon some things that where odd and never added up with what Ridley had said at the time...

Then months latter comments etc came out that indeed seemed to then add up to what the source was saying..

But i cant guarantee the source is actually True, or made up but some things are just well bit too detailed to that then added up with latter comments.

So who knows.

The source comments do seem to point to the Space Jockey being a Ancient Event... but also that how the Xeno came to be, and related creatures in Prometheus 2 and Deacon in Prometheus are all connected as far as a creation stand point.

But they have been vague about this.... but they did refer to the Goo as a Parasite, but that it had been evolved to be more than that now.

 Big Dave:

Yes you are correct that I am one of those that wanted a clearer connection to the Xeno but my biggest problem is the human characters at the same time I like the fact that it wasn't a pure Xeno movie. David was the best character by far and he was an android.

I think that the Engineers, Deacon and Squid were alright but some of them could have been done better (the Fifield monster) or explained better (Hammerpedes but I hope that AC will explain some things about them). Hopefully we will see the Squid in AC. One problem that I have with Prometheus is that the Xeno connection is too vague but that doesn’t mean that I think that all the new things were lame or that the whole movie should have been about the Xeno (we already have Alien 1-4 + AvP). A little more explanation about the Xeno would be fine, but just a little. I like that they expand the Alien universe by having the Engineers in it.

Prometheus had some good things about it: The landscapes were great, I like the David character, the Engineer was potentially interesting even though I think that they would have put subtitles when he talked to Weyland, for example. Ending with the Space Jockey wasn’t too important because by leaving out the crash at LV-426 means that we can save that for later and have some more movies that hopefully make sense and that have better characters.

Thanks, I wasn’t sure about who them were. Thanks for clearing that up.

I would like to see how the hierarchy above the Enigneers looks like even though the whole movie doesn’t have to be about that. Maybe their society has some sort of military structure?

As far as the Deacon and the Xeno are concerned they look similar so they must have been created in a similar way, no? Similar doesn’t mean that they are created in the same way but that could be something that Alien Covenant could show a bit about. One thing that I am thinking about is how much genes that the Deacon and the Xeno have in common for example there are different birds but all birds are not the same but the obviously share genes in common so maybe that goes for the Xeno and the Deacon too.

The Goo could be expanded on I think, it could be explained in an interesting way although they don’t need to explain everything about it, the same goes for the Xeno. I hope that they won’t explain everything about how they made the goo because that leaves things up to the imagination which is better I think.

I would approach Prometheus and Alien: Covenant from a mythological point of view. That is, view the Engineers as the givers of fire, but also the bringers of suffering. One faction of the engineers upgraded humans, giving them civilization, and educating them (mathematics, science, etc). This is very similar to Sitchen's story of the Annunaki. Another faction of Engineers did not like this and decided to wipe humans out. Again, same story as the Annunaki, except the Annunaki didn't use weapons to do it, they just allowed humans to die in the deluge (flood). 

As a result of infighting the Engineers destroyed themselves. End of story. That's why no other Engineers have visited Earth. If any of them do still exist they're probably back to the stone ages living in caves. 

One faction of Engineers can be viewed as Prometheus. They were punished by the other faction. The Prometheus faction learned of the other's plans to eradicate life on Earth and sabotaged it. Perhaps one or more ships made it off LV-223 and dropped their cargo on Paradise. Still, the pictures I've seen from the set showing the Engineers frozen seems to indicate they may have died as a result of some type of nuclear weapon. 

Indeed i think that the idea was along those lines Trevorl314 i just hope any such themes and connections wont be just wrote off and forgotten about in return for a straight up Alien Movie.

Thoughts_Dreams

Prometheus looked amazing... i can only imagine what a 50% extra budget and trying to bring 1-2 more of the unused concept works to life would have given us.

And if Ridley used same Technology that Lord of the Rings does so that our Engineers would have appeared more 9-10 feet as intended rather than 7.5 Feet.

Between Spaights and Lindeloffs drafts was a movie that could have been Outstanding...

Spaights Characters and Plot was more coherent, less ambiguous but it was a bit Spoon Fed, bit too on the nose and robotic.

The Characters in that was not so great either.... in general they was used more better than Lindeloffs as far as general Characters.

Shaw and Holloway was flawed though... Watts who was to become Shaw, basically went from the Shaw in Prometheus to basically more Bad Ass than Ripely could ever dream within the space of the movie..... She Basically started off a Terminator Sarah Connor then half way through was a end of Terminator 2 Sarah Connor

Holloway was a bit of a boring geek, and more annoying in a way than Prometheus Shaw Character... always quoting Bible References to everything lol

Also seemed like he was basically Commander Data from Star Trek... While Watts was more a Alice from Resident Evil

Lindeloffs Characters.. was under developed.. apart from a few... some key Characters not fleshed out enough... and in general the movie had a kind of American Pie in Space with Aliens Vibe..

Spaights had Characters more developed but it was robotic and dull, it was like a Downtown Abby in Space with Aliens Vibe.

I think it needed to be a bit of both...

Between both drafts... there was a great re-write in the making that could have been great...

I had planed to do one myself... got most ideas down.. just never completed.. the dissecting of both drafts to stitch together with added dialog and scenes by myself.

Oh, Jesus, BigDave, that's a f.... long thread. :)