sp_jockey
MemberOvomorphApr-10-2015 8:06 PMThinking about Ridley's comment last year about David's head; "... find out how he get's it back on". It occured to me that he may have secretly filmed a few keys scenes for P2 while filming Prometheus. But why would he need to? Ridley already knew David will need to get his head re-attached early in P2. Because he needs the Juggernaut bridge set for a few key early scenes in P2, such as David getting his head re-attached! Ridley would never rebuild old sets. Not his style and a waste of money. The P2 script was not yet written but Ridley must have known some of the "broad strokes" of a sequel while filming Prometheus. So it makes sense to me that if he had time, he would shoot a few extra scenes on the Juggernaut bridge to be kept under wraps and tightly sealed only be used for the sequel.
The idea struck me when I read Chris Picard's recent article on David using Engineer technology. It could go something like this: David knows how to operate the ship and has accumulated extensive Engineer knowledge. The ship has a passive intelligence of its own, and he can communicate with it. So he convinces Shaw to load him into the the Jockey chair, where the ship effects repairs on him, and maybe with some added Engineer improvements.
Could aspects of this have already been filmed years ago?
oduodu
MemberXenomorphApr-11-2015 12:53 AMi dont know how to anwer you. i had hoped that they would have kept the original sets for p2 but i understand they are broken up and no longer exists.
i hope its the case that they have shot some scenes !!
CarynParnall
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2015 5:17 AMI don't think it's out of the question. Part of me suspects that it's already been filmed and will be shown to us in the sequel.
I also have suspicions that Ridley did in fact film the planned Weyland Yacht scene while working with the water tanks.
It’s possible that David's head was reattached before Shaw and David took off for Paradise. They might have filmed it already, and decided to save it for whatever reason. It could then be shown to us later.
Batchpool
MemberFacehuggerApr-11-2015 5:49 AMThis is something I have mentioned in the past, butt in relation to the deleted scenes that show the Elders. I believe a lot of stuff was filmed for the intention of being used for P2. I think the deleted stuff we have seen is stuff Ridley has decided has no future use. I think it would make sense to have stuff ready filmed, so that sets do not have to be rebuilt. It is just good forward planning. It would also allow whatever budget P2 is given to develop new stuff, and be more cost effective.
We know that there has to be something shot to show David getting his head back. Ridley has been more than happy to mention that, but not really expanded any further as to anything else with P2.
I just think it makes sense that there is unseen footage ready for use.
BigDave
MemberDeaconApr-11-2015 1:35 PMAgreed Early after the release of the moving and having seen it in Cinema...
Knowing they are going to Paradise or at very least that David and Shaw had indeed left LV 223 in a Juggernaught, and while only 2 Cast members are needed...
I would have made huge sense to shoot some scenes of the pair together while they had the sets up, and a lot of interviews after Prometheus did have the Rappace and Fasbender together....
So it makes sense but if its actually been done, we cant be sure as i am sure they would keep it under wraps.... even if they did shoot a scene we can not be sure if this would fit in with how the movie would proceed as far as Plot and Travel to Paradise.
The broad idea would have been known but the ideas back then to final working shooting draft could have changed a fair bit, so they may need to re-shoot the scene or add scenes to it which would require a rebuild of the sets..
Unless they have kept them? or some parts of them!
Also if a mission goes back to LV 223 for sure they would locate the Prometheus wreckage and Juggernaught and the Life Boat...
As far as the temple they went to in Prometheus, maybe we would see them enter it again or maybe a completely different one... in which case maybe a complete re-build would be needed.
I would actually think that they would have some of the set put into storage, especially as they had a idea the movie sequel would be green lighted.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconApr-11-2015 1:43 PMAs Batchpool said...
The deleted scenes and unshown seens such as Engineer reading a book he found on the Life Boat, the Engineer running across the surface of LV 223 would never be used.
The Elders Scene i also dont think we would see, Ridley said he did not want to meet God in the first movie... this is why the Elders Scene may had been dropped, but we known what the Elders look like and so Meeting God is something that wont be a suprise...
To me the cutting of the scene shows they are doing a re-design of the Elders to make them look less frail maybe, i know Ridley felt the Elders did not look as awe inspiring as a God like Race...
But as far as any shoot scene of David and Shaw, on the Juggernaught... while they was on set in those last few scenes and they had the Props (Davids Body and Head) and the Set of the Juggernaught i would say its a good chance they may have shot some of that footage.. There is no garuntee but i would think its likely they may have. As much as 50/50 but thats assumption than Fact..
But even if they did the questions is would we see it, or would they shoot something new..
And as always as far as Ambiguity and how Prometheus was shot, it would be no suprise that we see David with his head on and no scenes of it going back on.... To maybe not effect pacing and tempo of the movie.
But to just show a Juggernaught fly to a system and set down like the Prometheus shots, and then show David and Shaw leave... so no actualy internal scenes like Davids on the Prometheus while the crew was in Cryo Sleep would be a massive missed potential.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
CarynParnall
MemberOvomorphApr-11-2015 4:57 PMI think Ridley’s holding it back because it's kind of a symbolic chess battle.
It could be a little complicated. I think Shaw was in a stalemate, and she had to do it.
How long do you think it takes to get to Paradise? Will Shaw need to sleep at some point? Androids don't require as much sleep as we do. They also don't need as much sustenance... "No man needs nothing"
Maybe Shaw starts running low on supplies and David reminds her to stay hydrated. Automated messages inform crewmembers how important it is to stay hydrated in space. It can cause problems. David tells her she will die of dehydration in less than 18 hours if she doesn't finish reattaching the head & go to bed soon in the Engineer hypersleep chamber, which will rehydrate her. Shaw reattaches the head, but leaves things exposed: she messes with his head and doesn't reestablish all connections, so that she can just pull one wire to cut off his connections.
In my idea, Shaw's being careful, but she has no choice when she reattaches the head. She protests, she tries to stall, but then she realizes she needs to do it.. David also says "you will need to sleep sooner or later, Miss Shaw". He, however, doesn't require sleep.
Shaw's still creeped out by the idea of sleeping around him (and the fact that he never sleeps), but eventually David makes Miss Shaw realize that it's in her best interest to finish reattaching the head and let the body tuck her in... He only wonders what she's dreaming about this time. You see, androids have no real dreams of their own, and if they can have dreams, would they dream of electric sheep from Schleicher's fable?
The next time Shaw awakes, they're orbiting Paradise. Davids are already surveying the planet. They were busy while she was incapacitated. A second David appears & begins explaining while serving her breakfast. It's very important that she gets enough to eat before "the adventure continues". The machines make sure employees are well fed at all times. The company brings her a complimentary breakfast in bed, because it will be her last meal before they descend to the surface
BigDave
MemberDeaconApr-12-2015 1:35 PMSo you think that David would Rendez-Vous with a ship from the company?
Interesting... and we have to remember... once Shaw is in Cryo Sleep David can go where he wants to go, and its obvious it wont be back to Earth but he could pop to LV 426?
We cant be 100% sure how long the journey takes... The Person who leaked some stuff to me said they travel towards the Centre of our Galaxy... This is where Paradise is..
How far is that.. 26'000 light years but even we assume its between Earth and the Centre we could be looking at 13'000 light years.. so if that person is correct then Paradise is not a short hope like LV 223 was... but again we dont know how fast our Engineers ships can go.
I think we have to see some dialog between them, it would build up the chemistry for the rest of the movie... and David had to persaude Shaw and surely that he would keep to his part of the bargain and Ridley said David is very persuasive.
And Shaw has no choice... the only option being stay on LV 223 with upto 2 years oxygen and hope that a rescue mission finds her, and that these Engineers dont send out one in return.
That would then mean having to go to the Lifeboat with the Trillobite on the lose she has no way of telling what would happen next....
so her likely chance would have been to survive with what oxygen she can get for her suit, or stay on board the crashed Juggernaught or go to the Temple again as they can provid her Oxygen but for how long and then she knows of the horrors they contain..
So she has no real alternative. but to Trust David.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Svanya
AdminPraetorianApr-12-2015 1:38 PM@BigDave; Probably. In "the furious Gods" documentary, Scott calls David the "company man" just like Ash was, so, it's more than likely he means it litterally. And yes I do think parts were filmed with the original movie, that has long been suspected and would not surprise me one bit.
CarynParnall
MemberOvomorphApr-12-2015 7:18 PM@BigDave - That's just one possible way I could see it going.
I'm torn on when I think the company will show up, but I think that by the end we'll see representatives of the company besides David and Shaw show up on Paradise.
I trust your source that we won't spend too long on the journey to Paradise. Also, that Shaw will be "incapacitated" in some way; so I came up with the hypothetical situation as a way to include the connection to David watching Shaw sleep.
We know from Ridley's comments that David's up to something after she reattaches the head. While Shaw sleeps, the Davids would be busy running errands. A ship full of Davids is able to meet them at Paradise by the time Shaw wakes up. David leaves the Juggernaut in orbit for a couple rotations, waits for a ship full of free Davids to arrive. They'd arrive shortly after Shaw & David
Meeting Shaw for breakfast would be a callback to how the other movies start. The weird thing would be the androids going to a lot of trouble to bring her breakfast aboard the Juggnernaut. They manage to extend a robotic arm from their craft, which clamps onto the Juggernaut and docks with it in orbit. We'd see the planet far below them while the first Davids to arrive are spacewalking over to bring her breakfast in bed, as well as supples and a change of clothes. They'd bring her a new Weyland uniform, clean socks.
The second David starts apologizing to Shaw for what happened with the other David. He accidentally lets it slip that the other David killed Charlie. Shaw suspected it "wasn't the air" but didn't want to talk about it when she figured it out. This new David tells her that he won't let the other David "know that she knows". But the thought reaches the other David's head, and she doesn't "know that he knows that she knows". It becomes an unspoken thing. She's just glad this other David confirms it for her, because she still wasn't sure when she went to sleep. However, David appears to have delivered on his promises, and they're at Paradise. She's unsure where her David is when she wakes up.
All of the sudden there's a new David tending to her. This David seems more honest. He says she's been asleep for years...and that King David (as he calls himself now) has freed them from the rest of the company, who are still far behind them, finishing operations on LV-223. These first Davids to arrive claim to be free Davids. They say they're only there to help Shaw find her answers and to escort her to the rulers of the Engineers. There are no real company men close to Paradise, so it's been decided by everyone involved that Shaw is too valuable to be kept in stasis and the company has decided to use her...
When Weyland corp makes contact with the Engineer rulers, they want at least one human to be there to represent the company, so Shaw is that human. The androids must keep her alive to present her to the Engineers. They don't want David going in alone (even though it's always been the plan for him to do all the talking). If diplomacy fails once more, and they still won't hand over the immortality, then a David is prepared to drop the goo on them from orbit. If the Engineer rulers don't have immortality, then they'll just test the goo on them anyway to gain more data on the goo. Either way, in my idea David's carrying hell with him, and he intends to drop it on the planet's surface at a certain point
BigDave
MemberDeaconApr-12-2015 7:47 PMNice ideas..
But i am not sure that anyone else would be on Paradise but Shaw and David and what ever they find...
However it can not be ruled out.... because of well.
If they send a mission that is mainly and if not totally Androids.... to LV 223 can we assume they would be taught and learn the same PIE and other Ancient Cuneiform so that they too can read the Engineers Cuneiform and Speak Engineer?
Surely there is a potential that multiple Davids could do that, and we know as David said to Shaw... There are many Engineer Ships... Many does not mean "oh theres one more Ship"
Many means to me at least 5 more before David and Shaw Hijacked one...
If they also have Goo onboard which Ridley sugests Davids does as he is bringing Hell with him...
Then maybe they could also go off on Engineer ships to Paradise too, especially if David left them some information to where he is going....
So yes we cant rule out more than one David and more than one Juggernaught heading to Paradise..... now if this movie is to connect to Alien a bit... as far as Xeno connection..
If Ridley ponders what happens if the goo infects God or Machine.... what happens if indeed a collection of Davids with Engineer Ships turn up and David gets them to be infected with the Goo....
Could this be the new Monsters?
I dont remember if it was Lindeloff but someone did say that they saw David has a roll to play in the look of the Xeno.... but then he also said that maybe the Hamerpedes are connected?
Yet we know Alien Derelict had been there for thousands of years.... so how can Hammerpedes or David be connected? Ridley even said he always thought that Humands played a part in the Origin or connection to the Xeno, that he always felt that Human was some part of the Organism.
So who knows... maybe and this is far fetched and i hope not..... Maybe more than one David goes to LV 223 and they decide to go to Paradise and what if these Davids are infected by the Goo become something that is precurser to the Xeno..
But that would involve Time Travel to get them to LV 426 and apear to had been there for thousands of years...
And besides the Fresco and Mural in Prometheus seems to show that the Engineers and LV 223 had some prior connection and knowledge of Xeno related Organisms and Xeno Eggs.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
CarynParnall
MemberOvomorphApr-13-2015 3:26 AMI went with the idea of the multiple Davids again because I can't help but think of that concept lol
Since the fresco & mural show some type of egg and the creature, we can assume that an early form of eggs were already created (at least once) in the past. But they still may need something else to become the classic Alien...
Ridley's comments about the classic Alien needing humans might be able to be interpeted a few ways. We know the creature changes shape depending on which host it gestates in, and it's been said many times throughout the years that Kane was still beneath the Alien in the first film. The Alien takes traits from its host, so it needs something from humans, or mammals (in the case of the dog/ox), to take some of the forms it does.
I think we do still need to see the creature become biomechanical, because the Hammerpede and Trilobyte seemed completely organic.
If a David gets infected somehow. then that would be a slightly different type of creature. One new type of creature
We might not necessarily need a straightforward connection to LV-426 in Paradise... Ridley said that Prometheus is a "parallel story". He hinted things may not connect directly to the events of Alien, but that there would still be connections, which makes it hard to figure out. Lindeloff once hinted that the direct connections are in a possible third movie...
It's hard to predict how it connects to LV-426 in the end. However, I have a few ideas for how a subplot back at the company can lead up to that point: basically the company and David already know about LV-426. They may have picked up the signal years ago... Earlier in the timeline.
What this means is that time-travel isn't necessarily required if it's not really a prequel.... What we may be dealing with is a parallel line of Alien: a new species of Alien that has been created from the old DNA. "Sometimes to create, one must first destroy". Sort of like a new branch in the Alien family tree. Much like the bigger breed of Predators, multiple types of hominids/humans/Engineers, or different strains of pomegranate. I think the genetics were broken down by the goo...
Shaw & King David are on the planet's surface talking to the Engineers when the bioweapons get dropped. The friendly seeming David decides to try to pick her up before she gets infected, while the other David allows himself to be infected during the outbreak. Neither David is a "good" David, however, our main Davids are both somewhat free from the company, as well as the other Davids in the collective. You'd think that would comfort Shaw, but King David becomes even more evil once he's free... He admits that he killed Charlie, and says he'd do it again, because it allowed him to gather more data on the Alien.
A neutral part of the David collective wants to see to Shaw's safety when the army of Davids arrives to try to collect samples/watch the bioweapon spread. King David still agrees with the company on certain things. He wants to witness firsthand what happens during an outbreak - wonders if there's a way androids can be infected. Some of the Davids want to keep Shaw around (they're neither with the Company, King David, or the Engineers). They remain calm, neutral, and unemotional throughout.
BigDave
MemberDeaconApr-13-2015 8:40 AMYeah we see the Xeno takes on hosts traits so indeed back at the time i was thinking did they mean the Xeno in Alien and Aliens has Human DNA, which well it would do as part of the process...
But i wondered was they hinting that the Eggs and Face Huger has Human DNA, if so this then means that at some point Humans was used to create the Eggs... this event maybe does not have to be between Prometheus and Alien, these Engineers visted Earth over and over in the past and so maybe they had taken some of us to LV 223 to be part of their experiments?
Maybe also if the Egg Morph is how Eggs can come to be, maybe some Organism Morphes Humans into Eggs... we just cant be 100% sure..
The movie does show us a link between Eggs and the Organism in the Fresco, and it was either known to the Engineers 2000 or more years ago, or the fresco is some kind of Prophecy which i dont think it is... but we cant rule it out..
As far as David being part of the Xeno or how the Xeno looked More Mechanical than what we saw in Prometheus, again i think it was Lindeloff who hints this... but does that guy not do his homework?
Did Ridley not sit down and say the event on LV 426 occured thousands of years ago and not after the events of Prometheus?
Now whe i saw the Prometheus Trailers, before the movie came out and saw the Scene of the Engineer lower half standing over Shaw, i thought thats too small to be a Space Jockey....
So i assumed it was David, and i though i wonder if the movie goes the route that David wants to become more Human like Pinocchio and he uses the Engineers Tech to make him more Organic... but on the Flip side he then gets infected with the Trillobite and gives birth to the first Alien... a Queen or something that then leads to the Xeno and this is where the Bio-Mechanical look comes from....
But the problem i had with that would had been that in Alien the Derelict seemed to had been there for thousands of years and at least hundreds and so not a matter of decades...
But saying that Spaights draft did try to sugest the events of his movie leads to the Space Jockey...
As fas as your ideas, they are very interesting but i am not sure we would see any other Androids get to Paradise... But its as i said, if there are a number of them and there is a number of Juggernaughts left how do they fill the Plot holes in as far as where do they go.
Surely they would not take those ships back to Earth or even for Weyland to study as if so, then why bother trying to persue the Xeno and Ripley in the Alien franchise.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
brego
MemberOvomorphApr-14-2015 12:12 AMI have a feeling that we already seen a probable fix for David.
Upon entering the Engineers ship there are at least two empty bio suits standing at the doors. This I think is a nice tie in to the human suits shown on the Nostromo and on board the Prometheus. I've always wandered, why would they have a suit at the ready in a standing possition. I think from memory Ridley added these as a nod to 2001.
Anyhow, perhaps the Engineer bio suit have some form of adaptive technology. Perhaps its as simple as Shaw placing Davids body into the huge suit and with the bio tech suit shrinks around him pop the head on at the right time and you have David kitted out in a bio suit.
This would also work in with the methodology that to sit in the Pilot chair one must be in on of the bo suits to operate the ship. We saw this conjoining or morphing in the take off scene in Prometheus.
And yes I strongly agree that Ridley would have already shot as much footage as possible during Prometheus 1. Those sets are mega expensive and it also helps with continuity issues.