The Ultimately Ironic Alien: Covenant Twist - Mankind's Creation Creates the Xenomorph

Exelent...i think you nailed a good part of it...makes total sense

Either we see a subplot of covenant returning to lv 223 where the deacon is...with another david aswell.

And we see the main plot of the main david using shaw to create the perfect organism...A Type of queen who can lay eggs and reproduce.

i think engineers will play a big role on it aswell

and i think the deacon is far more inteligent then a regular xeno and i want to see how does he reproduce itself..if hes the new king or as i mentioned the most powerfull creature yet...a lone wolf that eventually clashes with the perfect organism david created...he might realise that the perfect organism is in the end the deacon...the mural resembles a deacon not a regular xeno...

maybe the decon is the answer to the black goo and the god of xenos...maybe thats why engineers made us humans.....maybe thats why david infected halloway knowing shaw would be pregnant with the proto facehugger...and use the enginner as second host for the deacon

i think david is the main plot character..he knows much more then he seems and all he did in prometheus was intentional and he already had his agenda...i remember the part where weyland dies....david said " i know" whatever he told the engineer...he knew the outcome...hes a mastermind playing with puppets.

Well there seems to have been a few changes and i have given those and a explantion to maybe why... yes its a long long read lol.. on the News Feed.

Where do i start....?

Chris i shall answer you first... yes indeed  the synopsis and missing Shaw but she will be involved in a smaller role...  i am going to go by Official Information and comments by Ridley in the past and Alien/Prometheus Franchise rather than the Source (who is not saying much more  last bit of info i got was Ian Whyte could be replaced with Conan Stevens to play Engineer) he remains tight liped only hinting changes had been made to cater for the Franchise as a whole including Alien 5 and 6.

But the new news seems to add some interesting ideas regarding the Plot, that yet dont fit in with Alien at all..... I dont even know where we are going with this, because all along Ridley had hinted that Shaw and David are off to the where the Engineers came from.... he even said the Engineers are not Benevolent, time and time again he refered them to Fallen Angels and Rappace even said Ridley wants to take them to meet God, or the Devil (which again points us to the Engineers not being God or Gods... Ridley did say after Prometheus and the Cutting of the Elder Scene they did not want to meet God in the first movie). 

So we have a movie that was exploring this subject the Questions Shaw wants, meeting Beings, who are not very nice and David bringing Hell with him....  A movie that is also going to show us how the Xenomorph came to be... why and how and by whom.....   Despite clues on LV-223 to Xeno Eggs, and Origins and DNA that predate way before 2000 years ago... never mind how long the Derelict looked, which Ridley said was there within a few hundred years of the LV-223 outbreak thus again 1800-2200 years prior to Prometheus or Alien give or take.

Instead how do we get to a time set after Prometheus 2094, with a new group of Travelers on a Colony Ship that must have a mission to find New Worlds that can be ideally Colonised?  Why would they end all the way out where ever Paradise is.. Assuming David is there... surely they cant end up at a place close to LV-223 like LV-426 can they?  We cant rule that out i guess.

I am going to assume and only going by Official lines (so no Ophiuchus constellation) that Paradise is futher than the LV-223 system... "Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy" as the Synopsis sugests.... but we cant take that into account as that could be thousands of light years and as the Jewel of the Crown Prometheus took 2 years to Travel 39 LY we cant assume he Covenant would travel that far unless it encounters a Worm Hole.

The Synopsis sugests that this ship comes to a Uncharted World they hoped would be Paradise, to find it dark and disaster had taken its toll and a lone David....  this shows us that Ridleys incomming is not a case of a Ship following David or Shaws by any means as how far behind must they be to find only David when they arive and a place that is far from Paradise.

Prometheus Synopsis said (darkest parts of the universe now the Universe is greater than the Galaxy) so we can take the far side of the galaxy synopsis as not being the case.

A few things come to mind when i consider this ship....  a few inconsistancies within the Franchise... Prometheus was the Jewel in the crown of Weyland Industries  It was the Heliades in 2034 that was Earth and Weylands First FTL Ship.... the newer Prometheus class ship which had its first flight in 2073 would now allow Mankind to travel futher than KOI-2410 and beyond (3095 LY which was Teraformed by 2071 prior to Prometheus Launch). which is a inconsistancy as well it would be some 30 years from first FTL Ship launch until colonising of KOI-2410 which makes what 100LY Per year Travel, Prometheus took 2 years give or take for a 20LY per year travel give or take....

surely Prometheus would be faster... but we can omit this as non Canon but we have to ask if Prometheus could go faster than 20LY per year, give or take.. then if there was faster ships would Weyland not had wanted to be onboard them.. as faster journey is longer time as he never had many years left in him... if Prometheus could travel faster then why did it not do so?

Had Prometheus been someplace else first? did it have more than one David? who knows we have to assume it did not...

The Nostramo would have taken 10 months back to Earth... that makes its speed at 47LY Per year but we are talking 28 years latter and bear in mind Prometheus was created in 2073...

Anyway back to topic...  This Covenant i would assume would be fitted out to be a ship to go and look for Earth like Worlds, maybe the Galaxy does not have many Earth like worlds that are discovered in the Alien timeline, yes we have worlds like LV-223 that can support life to a degree and could be Teraformed easier but maybe Worlds that are exactly like Earth are few and futher between.... but this is what Paradise was...

I think it would make more sense that the Covenant is a ship that is more advanced than the Nostromo that is suited for a Long Haul Journey into Space.... Ripley survived 50 years in Cryo Sleep onboard the Narcissus. The Sulaco took 3 weeks to LV-426 which means it travels 670LY per year give or take....  if we are to assume that the Covenant ship could be somewhat between the Sulaco and Nostromo that would give us a say 360LY per year range....  and if we assume its safe for Cryo Sleep for half the time Ripley was on the Narcissus then that gives us a range of 9'000 LY

So what i am saying is... and i know its been long winded... but we have to assume that maybe the Covenant is not a ship that is deployed after 2094... it could be a ship that is deployed years prior....  or indeed a ship that is deployed many years latter how many years latter who knows?

Last Post had a lot of waffle so i have split it into two... so read this to get to the point ;)

I propose that the Covenant is a more advanced ship, than the Nostramo but maybe not Sulaco.. and that the ship is a long range ship intened for deep exploration missions, that maybe has a FTL Speed of at least double the Nostramos... (ignore how fast Prometheus was or not).

I propose it is a Long Rang Vessel that has been sent out to investigate a potential habitable class of Planet that is very Earth Like.... maybe Long Range Scaners and Telescopes etc have encountered a World that seems to Earth like, that is a vast distance away... The crew of the Covenant are off on maybe the 2nd biggest mission in Mankinds mission after the Failed Prometheues Mission, which was to explore a World that Ancient Clues could show us could be the Cradle of Life and where Mankind Originated from... but as far as Scientific Fact goes it is a Moon that is able to support life to some degree.....

Thus Covenant is another mission to this time explore a World that surveys have found could be a Earth Like World... and off they are packed away into Cryo Sleep for a Long Journey of many years... 10, 20 maybe 30 years?  this ship could set off what 5, 10, 15 years after Prometheus...  Regardless what i propose is that the Covenant is off to explore a World Far far away that has all the Hall Marks to being a Earth like World.... so they are in Cryo Sleep and off they go...

So this Covenant ship could reach Paradise when?  year 2120-2150? it does not have to be specific but certainly reaches Paradise a long time after David and Shaw arrive.

We go back to David and Shaw.....

We have to assume they reach this place that the Covenant is inbound for... and that David at very least makes it there a long time prior to the Covenant... this gives us a lot of time for stuff to go down... it leaves time for us to explore if there are any other lifeforms that David encounters... as dont see how they can completely drop the Engineers from the movie, if they are going the route of showing us Who created the Xeno and why... surely having David finding a Baron Place with nothing is not going to be fun..... and what of Shaw...? where did she drop him off and what becomes of her.....

Having a Covenant Ship inbound on a long journey that takes many many years leaves plenty of time for things to happen from 2094 until these Travelers arrive....  think about it.. if they are inbound and not far behind David and Shaw, following that ship... we have to ask why? and assume can a ship of Earths keep up with a Engineer Advanced Ship and also never mind a ship that has not been directly close to Prometheus at the time of that failed mission, if it was near by then it would have got Shaws SOS right?  Why the Hell would these Travelers be expecting to find Paradise while following a Alien Ship after one of its Crew has said that the Race behind this ships have left Death on LV-223.

Nope the hopes of finding a Earth life World many hundreds if not thousands of light years away and thus sent on a long 10-20 year journey makes more sense.....  by the time they drop out of FTL and arrive at the co-ordinants they may be puzzled as to why this world that surveys showed to be habitable and Earth like maybe.... is now a Disaster or not quite what they expect... maybe they then detect a becon or David, or something that brings them down to the surfice to find David.

I would have to assume the EVENTS prior to the Covenant arriving and Davids arrival prior would be many years latter and these events would be shown in parts latter in the movie and covered more in the next movie... so that the events of the Covenant and finding David and what ever goes on.. happens as a Flash Back at some latter point..

Onto the Alien connection..... the new bit of news sugests this....

"They’re going to go to the planet where the engineers came from, and come across the evolving creature that they had made"

First for a Synopsis that does not include Shaw, and a movie that Ridley confirms she plays a small Role... and a movie that would be about David and these new Travelers... i can assume that "They’re"  is not about Shaw or David but the Travelers...  "they had made" being the Engineers...
Just does not make sense... never mind where does another 2-3 movies go to cover a time frame of 28 years.....  Micheal Beihn left the biggest CLUE i feel, when he said that the next Ridley movie (Alien: Covenant) is set thousands of years before Aliens... how can that be, because David left LV-223 28 years before Alien and so 78 before Aliens?

Here is the thing... the movie i feel will have multiple Plots... maybe have to have Flash backs to Engineers and thousands of years... Ridley said the Travelers (i assume) find a "Evolving Creature"  They as in Engineers made..... not David.... but then Evolving could mean as far as the Evil Biology... i.e Black Goo..

The Engineers made that, thus if David uses that to create something that then has time to be Evolving by the time the crew of the Covenant land, then yes to a degree it is something they made, because the Engineers made the Goo.... David did not make the Trillobite or the Deacon.. he used the Engineers Creation/Bio Weapon to create them.

This i feel is the Logical Step... i think we may see flash backs to LV-223 and Engineers and Paradise because we are now to get WHY! which is a Question Shaw wanted to know.. Why did they want us dead, and how did the Bio-Weapons on LV-223 play a role in this... now Ridley is showing us WHY the Xeno was created and by Whom....

we know the Engineers was experimenting on stuff related to the Xeno on LV-223 some thousands of years ago....  did this Bio-Weapon start on LV-223?  had it been worked on for a short span of time prior to the Outbreak or was experiments conducted over thousands more years?

Did something come from Paradise to LV-223 to be experimented on, or maybe used on LV-223 but failed and was experimented on?

All Clues in Alien and Prometheus and Ridleys comments sugest that the Engineers had a role in the Xeno or the Biology or if not the Engineers some other Race above them, and all this stuff had gone down thousands of years ago...

And so its not a case of the Xeno being created as per say, after 2094.....

But maybe it could be re-introduced in a fresher form after 2094....

The only other way is that the They’re" is David and Shaw... and they find a Baron World that is Dark and had been a scene of Disaster and come across a Evolving Creature left over from something that had happened on Paradise.... do they encounter this creature... what becomes of Shaw?  What of the Engineers....  do they encounter none... or a few..

How can we get Answers with no Engineers? Unless David plays his hand in the Xeno creation or he interprets more hieroglyphs and lets Shaw no, or we see again Hologram Flash Backs?

If the movie is to span 2 or 3 movies... surely they wont all cover some Creature created or found on Paradise by David, and then turned on the crew of the Covenant?  and cover all this in 3 movies set between a 28 year Gap?

Nope there has to be some element set thousands of years ago....

I feel the movie would be showing us a event set a long time after Shaw and David set off in 2094 but a event maybe before Aliens?   i dont think the direct events of Davids encounter with the Engineers, or the crew of the Covenant give rise to the Xenomorph in Alien....

But it could show a event that contains similar DNA and results maybe a fresher form... but have flash backs set thousands of years ago with Clues to how the Original came to be or a solid connection between the Xeno and the Goo.

 UPDATE....

I forgot to mention some supporting Elements towards a Paradise set thousands of years ago...  or prehapse Paradise being a different place when David arrives compared to when the crew of the Covenant arrive.

That Clue...?

Ridleys comments on Shooting Locations... Monumental Forrest Locations.... then Monumental Mountains and then Formidable CGI Locations.

This to shows we may see a World that is very Earth Like as far as supporting Life... hense the Forrest Location...

Which latter or by the time David, or indeed the Covenant arrive is now a place of destruction and disaster....

wonder if Ewoks are indeed the creators of the Engineers?  As each new Race we discover gets smaller lol

"David always seemed to have an evil agenda against humanity. This would make for the most ironic of plot twists, making the Alien, the ultimate weapon against humanity itself a creation of a creation of their own."

Interesting... because the Source i had claimed... that the Xenomorph was a creation that was at the hands of Mankind well Humans as opposed to the Engineers, they was not specific but they said that Humans play a bigger role in its creation than Engineers.... 

What this means who knows.. whats the Role?  As Hosts and DNA?   surely Engineers created the Biology that gave rise to the Xeno..... David played his hands in the creation of the Deacon at the end of Prometheus the Engineers did not... but it was by using the Engineers Evil Biology.

Are they going that route? where does it get its Bio-Mechanical look from... The Engineers suits looked less Bio-Mech than the Xeno.... the Hammerpedes and Deacon too... but then the Face Huger looked less Bio-Mechanical than the Adult Xeno.

its a interesting idea....  Ridley did say the Xeno was created due to a threat... my Source did sugest something the same and it was freedome from Bondage... but again i cant take the Source as being in any way correct.

Im pretty sure Ridley has some big plot twists but i still think that at the very least...

The Mural and Freso and Creatures it showed are connected to the Xeno and Goo in someway, and that the Derelict seemed there for a long long time... the LV-223 outbreak happened thousands of years ago... thus the other dead Engineers in Cryo Sleep happened thousands of years ago....

Micheal Biehn hinted the movie is set thousands of years before Aliens, maybe some parts are... i.e Flash Backs be that Holograms... or David reading stuff and we get visual shot of what he has interpreted or indeed flash backs as in the Sacrifical and Elder Scenes from Prometheus?

i think its not accidental that Biehn mentioned that timeframe.. as he said its how it was explained to him... why would he make that up or get that information wrong?

Did the Derelict crash thousands of years ago..... i think so... was the Eggs there for thousands of years.... who knows maybe not...   maybe only the Chest Buster had occuried back thousands of years ago..

We have to also bare in mind that anyting Ridley has said can change.... he said that the Space Jockey was infected by his Cargo... hinted at Eggs, latter said he was infected by something that Evolved... and how do we know as in Spaights draft that the Space Jockey was not infected before he even left where ever he was...

Ridley gave a account of the Space Jockey Story... but as its not been covered on screen.. anything could change and so yes... they could have it that the Derelict in Alien was not on LV-426 at the time of Prometheus... but i think they would show us this to be a event thousands of years ago connected to when the Engineers was at War, or created the Evil Biology for some purpose.

@Tiago_miami_la

I will cover what you said in detail tomorrow for now i best get some sleep its past 5am lol well i dont sleep until sunlight but need rest from the computer...

But i am not sure they are going to LV-223.... i cant rule out Paradise being LV-426 though... as Ridley had intended that a while ago.... he had always considered LV-426 as Paradise but a kind of Darker Paradise...

However i feel the World they are going to is going to be futher away than Zeta 2 System at 39LY

will they go back to LV-223 and see the Deacon? Who knows.. i think its a Plot Hole that needs closing as by the time of Alien and especially Aliens why would they bother going to LV-426? When LV-223 has many more riches to be had?

@Big Dave yes pease man i love your insight!

i think they will return to prometheus movie plante becvause they get Shaw SOS message.

I think they will find deacon and i think the deacon will be the perfect organism and needs to be explored..n terms of reprodution..power and etc...its a new specie of xeno that combines All of the total power...black goo...human normal reprodution..human host...trilobite...engineer host.

The adult deacon will be something huge.

I also think shaw and david will reach paradise...i think lv 426 will be a place to be explored on upcoming movies because those eggs are made by a normal xeno queen

i think david wil use shaw to create a new specie who he might think its the perfect organism....sometype of ultramorph mix queen.

Altho i feel n my gut that deacon will be a key for a lotta of upcoming events...and it will be the creature on top of the foodchain. still theres a lotta points where i cant see somethings making sense because they too complex

Yes LV-223 does leave a lot of Questions....  lets start as far as LV-223 within the Alien timeline... Why does the company send the Nostramo to LV-426 to check on the distress call, IF the company knows about LV-223 and what went down, and we have to assume some of the below points which would lead to what reason would they have to not only go to LV-426 in Alien but more so in Aliens.

* The company would have known about Prometheus mission and the destination, and so without hearing anything from Prometheus its only a matter of time before they investigate...  there is no way that the company from 2094 to 2022 never mind 2072 have been in the Zeta 2 system and never once went to try and recover and investigate the ill fated Prometheus mission.

*Any ships getting near that system we would assume would intercept Shaws SOS, and we dont know the distance this SOS would Travel but surely over the next 28 years from when Shaw made it to when the Nostramo was sent to near by LV-426, are they telling us the company never gets Shaws SOS?  And would the Company Heed such a warning?

*Assuming the company or some other between the events of 2094 and 2022 investigate LV-223 what they would find its a World that has many many more riches to be had than that Derelict stuck on the surface of LV-426....

Including..

* A crashed Juggernaught Ship, that we have to assume is intact more than the older (assume) Derelict.  What can the company salvage from this? sure the company Weapons division would want to know.

* Some remains and maybe information and Data to be salvaged from the crashed Lifeboat, which inside would have a Dead Enginees Body and Dead Trilobite Face Huger.  The Science and Bio Weapons divisions would have a field day with these.

* The Temple mound Complex, which the crew of Prometheus did not fully search, there could be more Tombs, and we cant guarantee every Urn/Ampoule on the whole Outpost Mound has been activated/compremised.  We also have the Hammerpedes, the Black Goo seemed to have leaked a lot and potentially did only 2 worms get infected?  There was at least 3 moving in the Good that leaked from the one Urn/Jar and potentially 5 around it that was infected... How many more had got into the room who knows?  So there is a lot to uncover and find within that Temple Complex.

* It looked like there was more than the one Complex as upto 5 similar mounds could be seen as the Prometheus was heading to Land.

* There is more than one Juggernaught, David said there are many more and MANY is not simply just the one more that he and Shaw left on... So there has to be at least another 2 more, but there could be any number.  Surely these are a bigger prize for the Company.

* We have the Deacon and have to wonder what becomes of this Organism?

So yes a lot of lose ends to cover as far as the Alien Universe, Logic would have to dictate that by the time of Alien and especially Aliens there has to be nothing left to Salvage from LV-223, and i dont think this is something they cant leave unexplored...

IT HAS TO BE COVERED.... at some point...

But i am not sure that it would be in the next Movie but certainly as far as by the time they finish the next one after to two.....  LV-223 has a lot of significance to the Alien Franchise and Prometheus as far as the Engineers and the Bio-Weapons they was involved with, more so than LV-426

Paradise its hinted we would see some clues maybe to the Xeno... and Ridleys last comments are we are going to see every stage of the Xenomorph and a Re-introduction to it...  Paradise was either a place the Xeno may have been created on, and then taken to LV-223 or at least some Samples was for maybe re-engineering....  Or it was either created on LV-223 and then taken to Paradise....

Or if its orgins came from some place else... both LV-223 and Paradise hold bigger Key than LV-426.

So yes LV-223 has to be covered at some point as so far, it remains the BIGGEST Clue to the Xenomorph DNA.

As for the Deacon... i have studied it in great depth, what we have is a 5ft or so Organism at Chest Buster Stage and if we consider it to be more Mammal than Xeno, and look at the average Mamals birth size to Adult, then the Deacon should grow to anything between 15-20 feet tall, that would put it down to the size of a Xeno Queen.

But how would it re-produce, we cant be sure... a Mamal would usually give birth to a Life Organism and so no Eggs and it would usually give birth to between 1-8 new borns.  If we consider it is more connected to Primate/Human then this number goes down to 1-3 at a time, but usually just the one.

It would need to be fertilised (mate) but as its part Xeno DNA and the Xeno seems to offer the Ultimate in Survival traits we cant rule out the Deacon being Parthenogenic which means it need no mate to Breed and Procreate...  If we assume this then the Deacon could get Pregnant and give birth to a offspring and even if this is just the one....  We have to factor the Xeno DNA rapid development... Shaw would have gone full Term in a day, so we can assume a Deacon would be able to have a offspring within 24 hours... and its Logical to assume this Offspring would also be able to grow fast and become Adult in a matter of days and also grow to a Large size that could be even as big as the Deacon itself.

This is the most Logical way i think the Deacon would Evolve, we cant rule out Egg Laying though as this is part of the Xenos DNA and we cant rule out Egg Morph either...

From the Alien Franchise it would seem maybe Genetic Material is required to Procreate and im not talking Hosts for Face Hugers... but i would assume and it would be more interesting if the Deacon would require Genetic Material that it can use to then procreate itself...

These leaves a lot of interesting ways in which it optains such Genetic Material.

@BigDave love your insight it explains a lot with sense.

What you thin about the deacon inteligence? i think hes possibly the most inteligent xeno yet to come.

I think hes gonna resemble a king xeno....super inteligent huge and powerfull

Whatever david creates...from shaw im sure she will die....there was some rumors would be something like a ultramorph concept so i think we will see the first queen ever.

we need a queen to explain the eggs on lv 426....we need a queen to have eggs...its the first on the hierarchy of xenos.

i think we will see one in the end to make connection to those eggs...but whatever david creates will be a perfect organism aswell...the first queen ever...

we will need a new hero...could covenant hold someone that will replace shaw as the next hero? will this someone be connected to ripley in someway? is this possible?

the only way i see lv223 being visited is by this new ship covenant...so they can catch the trail....to paradise...where they will find david with his new toy.

i dont see the covenant goingstraight to paradise...doesnt make sense...they need to go to lv223...the deacon must play a role next movie..they cant left it behind on this movie..his origins are The perfect organism containing all elements made by casuality of events or not..maybe david knew it all along..hence infecting halloway on purpose....and he said.."what would u do to achieve ur goals?' halloay said  "everything!" so he dipped his finger on the drink.

the black goo is lab crafted...but the biologic origin comes from a being or creature.....like snakes make venom and we do pills and pharms with it.

the way i see it is...covenant goes to lv 223....catch the trail to paradise.....the deacon sneaks himself into the ship due to his superior inteligence..a trigger of events happen...they crash on lv 426....and we see paradise too....with david creating the other perfect organism..using shaw...and luring other ships to paradise..to have more hosts...himself makes more davids...some engineers must be alive...or other superior beings that try to fight david and his agenda...ending up being infected too...

deacon must play a big role not only on this movie but on the future movies.....new ultramorph queen must play a big role..david makes it..shaw dies..new hero is from covenant whos conected to ripley...we see paradise...we see david learning why goo was made for what and why..explaining to shaw while he puts something inside of her to grow..killing her.

regarding lv 426 we know theres a engineer with a biosuit with his chest open...and a lotta eggs this being from a normal xeno queen and normal xeno species that came from eggs chestburster and human hosts...we dont see black goo there....so lv223.holds black goo...lv426 holds eggs.....or does lv 426 holds black goo aswell..and those eggs were just a event from a queen that putted them there...but if so...where was the queen in alien...where was the alien that came from the engineer...this alien would be different aswell..but where is he. many loose ends. i would like to try to explain them

also i think deacon wont be able to reproduce itself...i think its a lone wolf...a predator to all other beings...himself being the perfect organism..with superior inteligence and power hes a mix of everything most powerfull.

i think they try to introduce the deacon as the new top of the foodchain xeno..and personally would love to see a clash between the deacon and the ultramorph david will create..i dont know i just feel like that beast gonna be the next iconic xeno specie..i cant wait to see him in the adult phase..the sound he makes and his morphology its so peculiar and unique..that final scene was made with a purpose..and i think to show the fans what will comes next.

i think i found out some intersting points.

david touches a green goo before the holograms....there was a xeno outbreak on lv223....

there were 3 crio pods....only1 was with a engineer....the other 2 are missing....could they be timelined...1 going first ...2 going after. and etc.

i think one of them crashed on lv426 due to this xeno outbreak one of those 3 is responsable for the lv426

also i dont think they want to kill us..they made the goo to transform us not to kill us....the black goo doesnt kill...it changes us. hence the mural and jesus christ xeno posiition.....

virgin mary..is shaw.....shaw gave birth to a proto facehugger...she wasnt able to reproduce itself.

guess they take lot of things from the bible so when we search we are able to find answers

i leave you guys a awesome video...please watch and give me some feedback..i think it makes perfect sense most of those points...and i wanted bigdave to do a input on this video if possible

Nice to join the debate.... this will be fun ;)

Yeah seen the video, and its not quite explained... to be fair its very open to interpretation....  I have studied Prometheus and Alien movies in depth... studied Drafts to all the movies including Star Beast and Prometheus ones.... and i try to connect the dots.. and its a hard job to do.

I dont know where to start with answers to what you have put... very very interesting ideas... sadly i dont agree but thats ok, we can all have our own theories and ideas...

Firstly the Deacon...

The Deacon at the end of the movie could well be merely a Plot Device... and only there as a way to somehow show a connection between what these Engineers are doing, and the Bio-Weapon Black Goo stored in the Urns and Xeno DNA..  The Hammerpedes and Fifield (especially other concepts) are also there to allow Prometheus to step away from the more Alieny Spaights draft and explore something bigger, and that Prometheus was a Prologue to a Franchise with bigger questions they wanted to explore.... The Black Goo events was all there to show a connection Genetically between it and the Xenomorph DNA.  The main idea was to explore the Space Jockey Race and what else they create and why they created us.... as opposed to the Xeno explanations...

The movie was left open with two endings, but it was Shaw and David that Ridley wished o focus on.... but yes as i explained in other post, LV-223 has to be covered at very least to explain what becomes of the place and the wealth of Engineer Tech and Bio-Weapons Weyland Yutani could get its hands on compared to the Derelict... this loop hole has to be covered.

Would it do so in the next movie?  I doubt it, i think we could get clues to the purpose of LV-223 in relation to the Engineers and Lv-426 and the Xeno Biology but i cant see it being covered as in the time frame of post 2094.... but it would surely have to be covered down the line.

The Deacon we cant be sure what would happen to it, or if we shall ever see it again... looking at the Xenomorph it seemed its main objective was to Procreate and i would assume the Deacon could follow suit.... However the Xeno was also used as a Weapon and so yes we cant be sure the Deacon can Procreate... we may never know...

They call it the Proto-Xeno... but its not... if anything is the Proto-Xeno it would be the creature in the Fresco or the Mural, these have to either predate the Xenomorph or are a Evolution of it.

LV-223 was either experiments on Xeno DNA to create something new, to re-engineer and Evolve it to create similar creatures..... or it was a place where experiments on a related DNA had lead to Evolution that created the Xeno... But by no means do i see the Deacon being the Precursor to the Alien in the first 1979 Movie...  Damien Lindeloff did call it a Proto-Xeno but he also hinted that the Hammepedes played a role in Evolution that led to the Xenomorph.

Maybe this can be shown to be the case?  But the Derelict seemed like it was on LV-426 for thousands of years.... Ridley confirmed this a few times, and he also said the Derelict crash laned on LV-426 within a few hundred years of the outbreak on LV-223 that killed off all but one Engineer...  thus the Derelict had been on LV-426 some 1800-2200 years give or take prior to Alien, and Prometheus.

This could be subject to change, but Prometheus the Engineers died out 2000 or so years ago, yet the Temple had a Mural that had a Xeno-esque figure and Face Hugers, and the Fresco had a Creature similar yet different that was also holding a Xeno Egg.... i would assume these are not a Prophecy of the Future... but a sign the Xenomorph was known more than 2000 years ago.

Micheal Biehn mentioned that Alien: Covenant was set thousands of years before Alien and Aliens, as far as how they (Fox and Ridley) explained it to him....

The Deacon is thus a Human/Xeno Hyrbid Originated Face Huger event that was created from infection with the Black Goo. I have covered this in detail many times.

Think i touched up the Deacon and why the Derelict and Xeno had existed way way before 2094.... the Weyland Viral site mentioned they had detected a Alien Signal from a Moon within the Zeta 2 system some 83 years prior to Alien.

Onto the Engineers on the Juggernaught there was 4 Hologram Engineers for 4 Cryo Pods... 3 of these contain what appears to be Chest Busted Engineers, the concept work shows a more traditional looking Space Jockeys with Chest Busted Holes the same size as the Space Jockey, but the Engineers ones are between that size hole in proportion to body and the Deacon Chest Buster.

This is a big mystrey and maybe a clue, i have covered this before and its pages long lol as there are a few posiblities. One of which we can not say for sure if that Jugernaught and Chest Buster Holes had occuried just before the LV-223 Outbreak i.e other Ghost Scene, or indeed years before or after...  and how they got infected is a mysterey but logic would sugest via a Face Huger, but they could have been Face Hugged prior to going into Cryo Pods... maybe unkown to them... or on purpose for example as a Sacrifice...... which we see the Engineers do perform... the Giger Alien unused Mural shows this, and the Prometheus one..

Also Spaights draft for which a lot of Prop work had begun before Lindeloffs re-write, had the Woken Last Engineer already infected with a Ultramorph Chest Buster, he had gone into Cryo Sleep to prevent the infection from taking its toll.... when awoken he condemed the Humans for now sentancing him to death and so off he was to do the same to Earth.

They Cryo Pods are on factor that is hard to fit with what is going one....

The outbreak to me shows signs of similar to the Sacrifical Engineers fate as opposed to a Xeno or Deacon... The Exploding head was going through Genetic Changes, similar to the Sacrificial Engineer and Holloway only slower rate than the Sacrificial Engineer but faster than Holloways... again the amount of substance consumed could be key to that.... I  have covered this before also... feel free to search the Forum or PM to discus this and other things.

As far as the Covenant and LV-223....   yes Logic would sugest the company would send at some point a mission to investigate what is going on, be it a unmanned probe, or Synthetic Crew... surely by the time they get close to LV-223 they would detect Shaws SOS...  The company would then not heed that warning, it would be curious to find out what happened, and if they knew of the Engineer Tech thats on LV 223.... remember there are many more Ships and more than a few Temple Mound Complex....  never mind trying to salvage the Wreckage which include the Lifeboat for any Data, and they would uncover at least a Dead Engineer and the Dead Trillobite.

I dont think the company would pull a Nostromo and send a Colony ship to go to LV-223 knowing that something could go down and then recover the resulting Evolved Crew...  And how does this Colony ship fail to detect Shaws SOS?  The ship ends up where David is.. and he is on the supposed home of the Engineers... thus not LV-223 and i dont think the Covenant will explore LV-223 then detect David and Shaw are off to Paradise... and then go find them...

Curiosity would befall them on LV-223 and kill them off or most... and then i cant see another few survivors want to go on the same mission as Shaw for answers... i dont think they would retread that ground or a Nostromo type event.... they have been done.

Paradise could be LV-426, Ridley had said before that he always saw the dark side of LV-426 as Paradise.. but Dark Paradise.... but i think they are going to send us to a much futher away place.... it would help explain why Engineers never came back... as if they lived right on our Doorstep (39LY) then provided they are not all dead, why have we not seen them in Alien Franchise?

Nope i think we need to look at the Covenant, i is a Colony ship, that would be looking for a New World to Collonise... we see the company specialises in this via Teraforming Worlds that can partially support life.....  to a degree as opposed to more Baron Worlds that have no Attmosphere etc like Moon and Mars but Weyland has Teraformed Mars....

No i think the company has detected a more Earth like World, out there in the far distant reaches of Space.. a World that would be similar to Earth thus could sustain life and Mankind without Teraforming...

Prometheus was a Major Milestone for Mankind, prehapse the first journey to discover the Origins of Life... or so they had hoped....

Covenant i feel is another Milestone Mission, a mission to a Earth Like Paradise, uncharted and a Rare Jewel in the cosmos... a world that could potentially be so close to Earth as far as life like. And thus a Long Range, Journey is set for a group of would be Travelers,  they would have the co-ordinants of where a Telescope or other Tech had detected a potential Earth like World, and off the crew Go into Cryo Sleep on a long journey...

Only in the period of time, as far as Travel to when they ship stops outside this World and the crew are awoken from Cryo-Sleep a world that was detected as possibly being Earth like, before the journey... is now a scene of Disaster...

This i feel is the mission of the Covenant, and the timeframe... who knows, i think the ship would have to be more advanced than Prometheus and maybe the Nostramo (Travels at 47X speed of light) but not as much as the Sulaco (670X Speed of Light) and so i propose the Covenant thus sets off on its mission maybe after Prometheus did, maybe 5, 10, 15 or 20 years later? and it could take it again 5, 10, 15 or 20 years to get to Paradise... yes it could have left before Prometheus but i am not so sure...

I think that the Covenants mission would lead to the (newly re-wrote Draft ideas to change both Prometheus 2 and Alien 5 to merge together) and that Alien 5 is set in the year 2200 give or take so some 100 years after Prometheus... i think that Covenant would show us maybe the Covenants long mission arrives at Paradise, a considerble time after David does, again what 5, 10, 15 or 20 years....  and that the aftermath of Covenant will eventually maybe be how the company in Alien 5 gets its hands on the Engineer Tech and Xenos... as i would assume LV-426 would be best explained as destroyed and LV-223 also... but we cant rule out LV-223 being a place this Tech is gained from... but would beg the question of why two missions to LV-426 in Alien and Aliens.

As with predicting Prometheus its anyones guess but there is the fact the big door in the chamber with the big head has a xeno already on it and humans and face huggers :O . http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n549/smarty9000/prometheus5/mural2.jpg

That lead me to think back in 2012 I think it was that it was already prophesied some how and either the engineers we saw in part one were making it happen or were trying to stop it :S ?! Or was it just production mistakes again and was not supposed to look so like the xeno and have any facehugger humans in it (would not surprise me). I also felt possibly the black goo was from the being in this door which is the original 'one' and demi god Ridley talked about way above even the level of the elders.

Possibly I missed some of the leaks you talk about im constantly catching up at the mo :D . Was the end game the perfect organism or just some kind of weapon...anyway maybe I need to catch up with the new leaks first :P ...

As for another angle the title give us some clues as in convenant : " a promise to engage in or refrain from a specified action (including restrictive covenant, a restriction on the use of property)"

if we take the law route above we might get the property being the black goo maybe? And that it was miss used? the religious definition is close too : " a sacred agreement between God and a person or group of people" .

Very interested in how the creator of the universe 'god' fits in to all this I do hope there are some hints in the next one already and we dont have to wait. It does sound like we might. Unless of course the covenant refers to humans or others etc etc....

Are the Engineers the figures in the cave paintings? Or are they paintings of another humanoid race? A race who are warning humanity about the evils of that star field(LV-223)? Maybe they are our ancestors?

Well those last few posts raise very good points.... and the Truth is... does anyone know?

"Are the Engineers the figures in the cave paintings? "

" Or was it just production mistakes again and was not supposed to look so like the xeno and have any facehugger humans in it (would not surprise me)."

And let us add our Friend Damon Lindelof who has so many Good ideas, but they are never done in a basis of A-Z they are not thought out well and coherent  or follow a strict sequence....  yes he is a fan of Ambiguity but i feel when you are doing a movie and a story you need to know for the most part the Answers, Everything and every aspect of the Plot.. From A-Z and roughly the EXPLANATIONS to A-Z, then you choose which to not include, so you drop E and T and U and you vaguely cover M P and R... Prometheus just feels like a movie that went A-Z but with them not even knowing what ETUMP and R was....

Did they think out a coherant plan for it all?  Or just typical Lindeloff writting of throwing in something, then completely not following it up and adding something else that is not even relevent to before?

But back to the points made by djamelameziane and MonsterZero

You will need a understanding of the movies Production to then see inconsistancies and why we are in such a mess.......  The thing to remember is Production began on Props following Spaights draft, a few things had changed but we can assume a number of Props began work between Drafts.... as Production was underway before Lindeloff came in to do a re-write...

so things such as the Chest Busted Cryo Pods and Engineers could have been completed or in part made before Lindeloff finished his draft, if certain props and sets where made for Spaights draft and then used in Lindeloffs then certain aspects of the Plot Change may not describe these visual clues within the props.

I think in hindsight a lot of things was overlooked when they not only produced the movie, but the Viral sites too. Thats just nitpicking.... for example some of the Ancient Clues had been from Civilisations that were post LV-223 Outbreak.  So as far as the Invitation/Trap we cant be sure, i think the easiest thing to say is that its both..... and that LV-223 was to be some place for us to eventually reach.... untill something happened that caused the Engineers to change their minds... or maybe we was never meant to get there... its a case of this is where you came from we created you here.. (Garden of Eden) and the Engineers in their arrogance and knowing they had contributed a lot to what Mankind had learned... and that without the Engineers help there would be no way Mankind would have got to where we was at that time... and thus without them teaching us Space Travel... Mankind would never be able to get to LV-223

If we see the Full Engineer scenes we can see the Last Engineer appears in Marvel at what he has seen, epecially on the Life Boat, including a not shown Scene of the Engineer finding and reading a Book (Maybe the Bible).

I hope they had a idea of where they was going with the Plot and Clues and its not just a case of make it up as they go along.... and i hope they planned to had expanded this in future movies and that they would still do so... despite the new Name and Plot Change.

As MonsterZero puts it.... it does not have to be the Engineers in the Cave Paintings.. it could be some other Race.. either above the Engineers and showing us where we came from or they... or a warning about the Engineers... who knows.

As for the Mural i have covered it a number of times and formed a theory of my own that seems to add up and make sense but it does not have to be correct... i mean does Ridley even know why or what purpose it had?

I will roughly put my theory here.... that is that the Engineers Seed their DNA as a basis of the creation of Life... i think something happened how and when i dont know as number of theories... but a event led to them producing something Releted to the Xeno DNA that produced the Organism in the Mural... this Deacon they saw as Perfect and thus its DNA was now seen as the better base building blocks for Evolving and Creating life.... they chose to use the Deacon DNA as opposed to Engineers DNA.... the Urns contain broken down DNA of the Deacon.... just as the broken down Engineers DNA was allowed to fall into the Waterfall, if this Engineer was Sacrificed in a massive Chamber or Glass Room and his broken down contents then collected into Jars... then these Jars are emptied into the Water Fall its logical that the results would be the same.

Spaights draft and how the Nano-Scarabs work confirm this...

Now as far as th other Face Hugers.... this Mural may have been a Easter Egg?  But HR Giger had designed 3 different Face Hugers and the Two he never used are in that Mural..... Spaights draft we was shown the Engineers had been creating many different Xeno DNA Organisms... and indeed upto 8 different kinds.

The movie and comments up until Alien: Covenant did put a emphasis on the Engineers as creators and some part of creation and Gods... well Fallen Angels. i am not sure they are going to completely drop this.

"the ultimate weapon against humanity itself a creation of a creation of their own."

Very interesting idea... and one that would work.. to a degree, and also its what i thought Prometheus was doing when i saw the Trailers... especially the Engineer over Shaw shot, where the Engineer did not look no where near 10-15ft tall.... Thus i thought it was David after he uses Engineers Tech to Make himself more Mortal... David becomes more Human, yet more he is like Pinocchio and gets his wish...

Only the earlier transgression he made Towards Shaw and that was his involvement in her Baby Squid.... leads to it Face Hugging David and this is how the Xeno gets its Bio-Mechanical look.

I was wrong however... and thankfully...

But i never brought the idea or one of Covenant and David being behind the Xeno, simply as far as time frame... as 28 years never mind 18 was no where near long enough for the Derelict to had been there unless Time Travel is involved, which in a other thread i raised concerns of this unless its by accident via a destruction of some place or Star System that tears a hole in space and time that its only temporary.. but enough time to suck the Derelict in and spit it out 2000 years or so in the past.

Such a theory could lead to some interested curveballs... such as what if David then was the reason for the Head Statue in Prometheus... but i hope we dont go for such things and the Derelict is simply a ship that has been on LV-426 thousands of years ago and connected to LV-223 thousands of years ago.... As Ridley Scott has already confirmed.

However and while i dont really want to rely on the information from the supposed leaked source, as they are not releasing nothing else and the Plot now seems to not quite add up to what was said, but then again the Plot also goes against everything Ridley had said prior to Alien: Covenant and Alien 5 on hold and slight Plot Changes and new writter for Prometheus Sequel brought in.

But the source did say "Mankind plays a bigger role in the creation of the Xeno, than the Engineers"  and "Prometheus was not the first time Mankind had been to that System"

They also said the plot does follow some parts of many ancient cultures, inc Paradise Lost, and that the system is Ophiuchus which is mentioned in Paradise Lost and in other cultures is the place of creation of life,  a place of healing and secrets of Immortality, place of the Gods.

And also symonous with the Garden of Eden.....

We have to remember if we take the Garden of Eden into context of bigger things and not being a Place on Earth that the Devil and Adam and Eve was cast out from.....   what if the Garden of Eden as in context to Prometheus is a Planet or Moon, be that Paradise or LV-223?