Franchise Rants

Ok.

NOOB said "I'm a creative professional, a visual person, and so it's no surprise I guess that I'm aligned with Ridley."

I completely understand what you are saying, and its exactly the way I feel too! I was a creative professional, though now I do something completely different, but kinda rewarding in its own way.

Despite the advances in film-making, and the plethora of content spilled out by the studios, there are very few of those films that I have been excited about or actually paid to view.

Ridley is in a realm of his own. Its just a pity that studios are owned and run by people who don't have a nano-grain of his vision! 

Ridley and Fox know the Franchise is a bit of a mess and this is why i feel they are working on 2-3 Alien Prequels and no doubt 1-2 Aliens sequels.

The book was a attempt to cover the Xeno, but things can change.... I am sure by the time Fox have done Alien Covenant and its 1-2 sequels and Alien 5 and maybe 1-2 sequels.

He did say why not do a Star Wars.... then i think once they have made another 3-5 movies we would have all the clues and answers needed and then we shall see another book that would be the definitive Weyland Files.

As for Canon its personnel preference..  Movies will always be Canon (apart from AVP) and other sources well elements may be considered Canon, but ultimately they could change which of these do or do not count as Canon by the time they finish the Movie Franchise.

But of course its always nice to have a bit of Mystery

To a certain extent, how you feel about the Alien Franchise and which of the films you prefer, depends upon where your Alien experience began. For older geeks like myself, A L I E N was our introduction to the visual mastery of Ridley Scott, and the beautiful, surreal imagination of Swiss genius H.R. Giger.

Remove those two world-creators from the equation and there would be no Alien Franchise as we know it. I have always felt that the Franchise we should have had, was stolen from us. Ridley was overlooked for the sequel and Giger’s work has been plagiarised. That has bothered me for years. Just imagine what Ridley and Giger could have accomplished if they had been able to collaborate on the sequels.

More than anything, the success of A L I E N lies with Giger. A painter, sculptor and designer, his work on the film was unprecedented. Adapting elements from some of his own Necronom series of paintings, he refined the look of the Alien and Space Jockey. Crafted the Alien suit, using bones, pipes and plasticine. With the assistance of Peter Voysey, sculpted the Derelict, Space Jockey and LV-426 landscape. The entire concept was groundbreaking.

Each successive film has chipped away at the core of that once disturbing and sublime universe. I have high hopes for ALIEN: COVENANT. It is Ridley Scotts chance to continue to rebuild that universe. What I really want to see are Gigers' beautiful monsters rejuvenated, using all the tools now available to modern film-makers. My dream of the Translucent Alien brought to life in stunning heart-stopping detail, lots of egg-morphing, and even just one glimpse of a living elephantine Space Jockey! As the only Alien director to have collaborated with Giger, no-one but Ridley Scott has the respect, grace and humility to make the film a homage to Giger.

H.R.Giger may have left this world, but the biomechanical aesthetic he created will live on, continuing to inspire, influence, captivate and shock. His importance must never be overlooked nor forgotten. So long as there is breath left in my body I will do my utmost to encourage people of all ages to seek out his work. As fans, I think it’s on us to ensure that Giger’s Alien Legacy endures.

Neither Ridley nor Giger would want to repeat themselves, so it's not like we would've ended up with something that was the same as the first film.  And Ridley could've used Giger on Prometheus, but for whatever reason - didn't.

Most of the ideas Giger had for Alien3 wouldn't have been suitable anyway.

Alien was the marriage of O'Bannon, Shusett, Giler, Hill, Carrol, Giger, Cobb, Scott, Roger Dicken, Brian Johnson, Les Dilley, Roger Christian, Michael Seymour, Peter Boysey, Bill Pearson, Terry Rawlings, Martin Bower, etc etc.

Even if you got all those people on a sequel - you're still not going to get a similar result.

No-one would want it to be exactly the same, why would it have been? Surely their further involvement would have led to something rather better than the three sequels we have?

I have cited all of whom you mention above many times in other threads. Yes, ALIEN was undeniably a collaborative effort, but it was Ridley who chose to work with those many talents, because he knew they could enhance his vision.

Ridley brought Giger in to survey the artwork for Prometheus, and Giger designed the morphing murals. Christ, the whole film is filled with his aesthetic! Giger attended the film's World Premier in London.

Giger was contracted to reinvent the Alien and had some incredible ideas for the creature design on Alien 3, inculding a super-facehugger which could swim. He produced a ton of work, sketches, plans, photos of models, which he faxed to Pinewood on a daily basis. Gillis and Woodruff, chose to ignore him, preferring their own ideas and that crap suit which Tom Woodruff wore!

Giger was treated abominably by them, and FOX, which eventually led to a legal battle!

ADI's designs were remarkably close to Giger's anyway - more catlike, no dorsal tubes.  They did as they were told by their director - just like they're supposed to.

And no matter what premiere's he attended, Giger didn't actually work on Prometheus. A pity, as his landscape work from back in the 1970s could make for some hellish visions, but ultimately Ridley chose not to use him (he was in his Wadi Rum period), and would Giger even want to revisit 40 year old work?

The whole reason the Aliens keep changing is because people don't want to repeat themselves or others.

@Lone  I love those pictures of Ridley and Giger mapping out designs...so epic

The dome in Prometheus is a nuanced quote from Giger's House of  Harkonnen. The bas relief mural also includes direct quotes from GIger's  concepts for Alien. And it's always been my impression that he did the murals found within as well? Yes, others can mimic his work, but without him they'd have no template. It's natural for some to be loyal to an individual artist, as only they can produce the work that truly excites.

When a group of unique talents come together, unique results follow. And no, the results will not likely mirror a previous effort, but their voice and vision will inform the new. That's what Lone is getting at. And while there were indeed many talented names attached to Alien, it was Ridley and Giger who made it an event.

Also, they wouldn't want to repeat themselves, people like Ridley for example dare to subvert the norm. This is what makes his involvement now so exciting, plus he's now a world class director with resources he didn't have 30 years ago, so maybe it's best he's been away from Alien all this time?

Giger actually worked on over 20 drawings for Prometheus. They are viewable on the Prometheus Blu-Ray set.

Ridley Scott was interviewed in July 2011 by Filmophilia:

Will you be using any of Giger’s original design for this film? 

We’ve had a pretty good relationship with Giger for many years. I was the first one to go see him in Switzerland, and persuade him to get on a plane. He wouldn’t get on a plane, because he was afraid of flying. And he finally came to Shepperton. He was with me for eleven months. Never went into town, stayed over a pub in Shepperton. Very non-Giger, not exotic. You’d think he’d be in a suite in a hotel. He’s in a pub. He was in a room over a pub, and he was very happy there. And yeah, I brought him in, I showed him what we were doing, showed him the story and he liked it a lot. So he’s doing a little bit of work for me. He’s been doing some murals, big murals, which we’ll see in almost one of the first chambers we encounter when we land where we’re gonna go.

Information from the Alien Explorations blog-  

Giger was able to contribute some sketches for Ridley's Prometheus project. However very little information has been given to indicate what these sketches were about. However it can be deduced after seeing the Fifield Monster artwork by Ivan Manzella that this creature was supposed to be the Fifield Monster. Giger produced the drawings on the 22nd of February in 2011. We don't know what he was asked to do or for what reason.

Giger's Prometheus drawing no 14 depicting the Fifield Monster from Prometheus Blu-Ray dvd set.

From the front of the face we see the creatures long spindly tongue inside and that it has two rows of teeth, outer row are small sharp teeth and the lower inner teeth display a row of teeth with very large sharp canines. The nostrils and the eyes are considerably bat like.

From the side drawing, one can see how powerful the jaw looks, that the tongue appears to be like a tentacle made up of a multitude of cones with one of the end of the other, and small sharp teeth. The head also looks as if it could have a membrane covering it with a gap in between it and the creature's cranium. From the side some might even still consider the creature to resemble a humanoid bat.

Giger's Prometheus drawing no 15 depicting the Fifield Monster from Prometheus Blu-Ray dvd set.

Below are some more of Giger's sketches for the film.

Images via the great Alien Explorations blog

I try to avoid social media sites, but some things are hard to deal with, and remain quiet. Have you seen the venomous comments that have been written about Ridley Scott? Even online articles questioning his ability, before a bloody frame of Covenant had been shot!

People who think James Cameron is the only one who can save the Franchise. Then people saying Ridley should move over and leave it to Blomkamp!

It makes my blood boil. Ridley Scott did not ruin the Franchise, the directors who came after him and the studio are to blame for that!

Blomkamp? Really? According to that recent interview with Miss Weaver, Blomkamp's Alien 5 has not even been green lit by Fox. Yet people are blaming and spewing venom towards Ridley Scott, over a project which may never get off the ground!

Fair play to Blomkamp for his online marketing pitch, it certainly got noticed. Prometheus was made in 2012, and was most definitely going to have at least one sequel. So all this crap blaming Ridley for everything is uncalled for.

Sigourney Weaver should remember who gave her the starting role which made her career, and should show a little more caution! I really expected more of her, and I am greatly disappointed by the tone of her comments.

Lone-

Discovering Prometheus and this site was my very first taste of the ignorant hostility a cultural phenomena can arouse, via the Internet.

Back then, I wanted to be optimistic and unjaded, but as my excitement was derided over and over again by posters picking on the most preposterous details, seemingly just to join the fun, I changed my attitude. Now I come out swinging!

Its amazing to me that Ridley has gone forward, given the backlash. But remember that he probably couldn't care less what anonymous haters think, he's true to his vision and apparently Fox agrees. He's ruining nothing, if you don't want to see it, don't go!

The validity of what he's doing isn't the problem, it's frustrated weasels attacking anything beyond their control. The people who actually stand to lose something to his mistakes are banking on him, what else is there?

Its sad to me that such pointless hatred exists, it's destructive and crude but ultimately it condemns the posters, not the topic. Its too soon to be sure that Sigourney is pandering to this but it does look that way. It's shallow and if her comments have Blomkamp's blessing then there's finally a reason to truly deride him, and the whole thing.

It could be she feels burned to have her last big chance put on hold, but that's her problem, she was never that great to begin with, Ripley is not that demanding of a role. 

I have to remind myself that hitting back is only perpetuating the problem, but the downside to that is then there's no resistance. I agree, for Blomkamp to be idealized over Ridley is beyond ridiculous, but then so are most (not all) of his supporters.

Absolutely. Even though I have my little gripes about Prometheus, there's no denying that it's a good film, which, If left up to the likes of Cameron and Blomkamp, we would have probably ended up with yet another re-hashed, Vietnam in outerspace type of bollocks with no real vision.

The great thing about Ridley imo is the way in which he introduces fresh and original concepts and doesn't take any shit from the suits at FOX/Brandywine. Of course he makes compromises, but he doesn't cut corners and his films are undoubtedly beautiful works of art.

I'm really not that bothered about ALIEN 5 to be honest. I'd much prefer to see what Ridley comes up with!

With all the (un-called-for) negativity aimed at Ridley recently, I think it's only right that WE should get behind him now!  

Necronom 4:

There are definitely problems that Prometheus has as a movie but at least it tried to do something new. Alien 5 seems to walk the road of an already tried thing so to speak (Xenos, Newt, Ripley, Hicks) so I doubt that it will add something interesting to the Alien franchise as a whole. Engineers and new monsters could add something interesting so therefore I am more interested in Alien Covenant and I will probably not watch Alien 5.

Compare this to the Friday the 13th movies where you by now have 12 movies as far as I know. How long can you keep a certain thing interesting and not make it into a parody of itself? I am not interested in another Friday the 13th movie nor another Xeno movie, both should stay dead so they can make something new if they know how to do that or has Hollywood lost its ability to think?

You guys pretty much summed up my thoughts. 

Alien was awesome.  It sets the bar for sci-fi horror flicks.

Aliens was good in concept, in that it followed the storyline from Alien, but agreed, Cameron fucked up what Scott had started.  Liked the introduction of Space Marines, but even that was poorly done.   

A:3, not much to say here.  You take a good story and kill off all the characters and dead end it.  WTF?

A:R, more of same crap.  You "resurrect" the main character (minus black goo, that's why it took so many tries I suppose).  And come up with the most goofy monster possible.  Total crap.

Prometheus.  I really like this one, because it explores other topics, such as the "engineers", space jockeys, and black goo.  But it raises more questions than it answers. But at least Ridley is back at the helm and hope springs eternal.

Don't know what to say about all these goofy Hollywood types.  Sure, they're trying to make money, but the egos, drugs, and whatever else combine to a toxic mixture that sometimes makes for the damndest decisions on these movies.

I mean sure, hindsight is 20/20, but how could you NOT tell A:3 and A:R (and to some extent Aliens) were total shit?  Almost like little kids, trying to spite each other.  Spoiled brats who have to up-stage Ridley/Giger with their own ideas.

What cracks me up is most any film these days lists multiple producers, directors, etc.  It's like there's so many chefs in the kitchen you wonder how anything comes out these days.

Want to see:

Alien, Aliens (possible Ridley re-make?), Prometheus, Alien 5(as 3), Alien 6(as 4), Alien 7(as 5) as canon.  Throw out Aliens 3, and Alien (R).  Make a nice box set I can finally buy.   

"I try to avoid social media sites, but some things are hard to deal with, and remain quiet."

"Try harder."

You think Ridley Scott cares in the slightest about what's said about him on social media?

Fans getting wound up on his behalf (or indeed, rushing out to defend him) is a waste of energy.

S.M.-

Very true. But hear me out:

When P came out I had no idea it was happening. My daughter showed me the trailer and, after I had scooped up my eyes off the floor and put my heart back in my chest, I immediately started researching it.

Yes, I'm among those who saw Alien as a kid and was forever changed by it.

It had been decades since I was excited about a movie, and for me, P did not disappoint, despite the internet's best efforts to put me off of it. I wanted more, but popular opinion seemed intent on depriving me.

The negativity surrounding it surprised me, but we're in an age where every frame of a trailer can be frozen and debated immediately online. I'm a commercial artist and I'm intimate with the phenomena, but this was the reverse, an artist I wanted to consume was under intense fire, and it felt as though mainstream hostility could come between me and something that truly excites me.

Ridley is uniquely candid about his position, and I very much admire him for it. It's so true, film making us a business, but somehow he still manages to pull off P. And so he will again with A:C, I'm sure. But, until I'm shown otherwise, I still want more. So I'm sensitive.

It's disappointing to see other players (I'm looking at you, Cameron and Whedon) play to the crowd, where I come from successful pros support each other, even if it's with silence.

The opportunistic pettiness that I now detect in other public figures (I'm looking at you, Weaver) riles me, and it's gratifying to lash out, here, among friends. Ridley certainly does not need me, in any way. But I love the guy. He's given me, on several occasions, what no one else has. 

Not sure how people are seeing "pettiness" in Weaver's comments, or that she needs to know her place.

And the negativity about Prometheus is a vocal minority.  It rated 7/10 with critics, it rated 7/10 with punters on IMDB, it did good business.  That's not a negative outcome.  It's not even the oft-incorrectly-used 'polarising' outcome.  It indicates that most people thought it was good, but not brilliant.

For as long as there's been fandom, there will be those who don't like one particular aspect of it trying to tell everyone else their opinion is universally shared, when it demonstrably isn't.

Certain things aggravate me.

@S.M I'm pretty certain Ridley Scott doesn't give two hoots with regards to what is written and said about him, but I do, so pardon me for caring!

I'm here because of him, and the purpose of this thread is to rant.  

^ Defo! ^

Ridley sleeps soundly thanks to the ever vigilant Knights of Sir Riddle the Scott. :)

):^O

S.M- I like the sound of that, always wanted to be a Knight! :D

In the tradition of Joan of Arc, I shall don my armour!

4 is worse than 3 by a long shot although I disavow them both as non-canonical, and we won't even touch the AvP junk.

3 kills off Newt, which is unforgivable, it turns Ellen Ripley the badass into another damsel-in-distress, eye-candy-for-the-pervs, near-rape victim, typical shit. Every character besides Ripley and bishop is totally unlikable. The melodramatics were empty and hollow, the dialogue was shit, the Alien looked the worst it ever has on film, not scary, just shit. At least 4 has entertaining parts and is genuinely funny in a lot of parts, it's a lot like Guardians of the Galaxy in many ways and is a good film to show kids who want to get into the Alien universe but might be too young to see the original two or Prometheus.

The worst part of the Alien franchise is AVP. That was pure cancer.