Inferance from Prometheus: The Real Plot

""The computer says, "Transmitting messege, no response." Why would he expect a message? "

Ill pick this up first...Indeed as SM said it could be signals sent to see if anyone is home... while it may sound odd thing to do, on one hand whats more dangerous... ringing up the home of someone who may/may not there and may/may not be hostile.... or just turning up... both would offer the same outcome regardless.

But that transmission part could be another ambiguous thing about the movie on purpose... or lazy writing it does not matter because Lindeloff had said a lot of things are done the way they was so that it leads to something to debate.

Thus there is no 100% Proof  or disproof the Transmission was aimed at trying to contact any would be inhabitants on LV-223.  Be it just pot luck attempt or maybe David knows something is there.

OR that is was aimed at another Ship in the area the rest of the crew are aware of...

OR a attempt to contact or send information back to the company...

The Viral sites if we take them as cannon off some hints that could back any of the above..

The end of the day though, its one of those things that are left to interpretation and ambiguity, which to a degree can give them freedom to explore other directions or even one of those above that i mentioned, as with so many things.. rather than Spoon Feed and be Detailed with everything... as this then maybe narrows the potential for room to manoeuvre or change the Plot for sequels..

Its one good thing about the ambiguity, without ambiguity i guess they would be more backed into a corner with where they can take the movie next.. without contradiction on a larger scale and without the ambiguity then we would not all be debating the movie as much as we have done.

I agree the movie was not perfect... Lindeloffs writting style is not as coherent as Spaights, but we need remember Ridley is the one who puts the Drafts to Screen and he and Fox Edit the movie.

The Drafts... even Lindeloffs do offer good reasons well more for some of the so called silly moments...  which include taking Helmets off, the Space Cobra Petting, the Pot Luck finding of that Outpost.

But i think it was DirtWolf who made the best point.... which is also something similar to what Michelle mentioned a lot.. in other posts...

That a movie needs to flow right, and somethings are not important to the whole process of getting  a movie that flows well.

They could have gone in detail with showing the computer detecting some signatures or irregular patterns in a certain area that then drives them to that place.

They could over eleborate and explain other scenes by adding extra minutes and dialog...  but then we could end up affecting the pace of the movie and also adding to its running time.

This is why some scenes got removed... they added depth to movie but was deemed unnecessary, a number of those was on the DVD extras which included the finding of the Shredded Hammerpede Skin (which shows it was growing like a Snake) the Janek and Christmas Tree Scene etc.

So some things dont need to be covered in great detail.

We are left to assume that as SM pointed out that there was some supporting evidence, that the ship and maybe Davids studies prior to awaking the crew had pinpointed maybe a area of interest.

Again how the scene was shot, seemed like they basically pot luck entered right above the rough area of those outposts... we dont know as i think SM pointed out how long exactly they had been looking for..  maybe it was not long..

Maybe it was a hour, but you cant show them spending ages longer in scenes where they are looking for signs...

Ultimately its just something we are to over look a oversight that is ultimately for most people something that does not matter really.....

But for some who try to dissect everything with logic it can be a flaw in the movie...  i will come to more of this next.

You mention the Viral Sites. How many people are still arguing about this movie bro? It's been 4 years. I assume it will get worse and worse until Covenant comes out.

I'm as perplexed as anyone and I think you're right. They purposely made this movie this way....so that thousands of people arguing would ensue for years and years. They think its funny probably. LOL

Much love to you guys.....its just a movie afterall....screw it.

I think Blitzen brings up valid points..... some indeed.

But i do think Blitzen that maybe you are trying to go at this a bit to scientific if you get what i mean...

Its Sci-Fi and so Fiction is a part of it, and i understand the whole conflict with  so called Proven Evolution of Species etc.

On the other hand the very Religious would throw such a thing out of the Window... as Religion has the answers.

Which is correct?  Can we disprove God, can we 100% Evolution? because Science Evolves and things they thought was Fact have evolved or changed... But no one was around Millions of years ago..

I think Ridley Scott was trying to poke at these two conflicting views of Creation and Life, and offer a Alternative that links the TWO.... the Ancient Alien Astronaught theory etc.

I think if someone watches Prometheus without knowing what its about or its a Alien movie they would find such things hard to swallow..... I think we have to remember the back ground to WHY we got Prometheus and the PLOT they are trying to push on us...

That is that all accounts of Ancient Mankind and Mythos and Religions they had are all drawn from Actual Contact with the Engineers....   That they as Ridley said... had came back over and over and Evolved us over and over, both Genetically and Technologically.

The Sacrificial Scene did not have to be Earth and its not a case of a series of Random Events from that Sacrifice lead to the eventual Evolution of Man...... Now the Theory of Evolution is we evolved from basic life....

Prometheus was trying to hint the Catalyst for this was the Sacrifice... be that this brought the building blocks of Life... or this cause the event that kickstarted basic life to complex.

Scientists now think a comment brought the building blocks to Earth Billions of years ago...

Prometheus was going the route that it was the Engineer Sacrifice.... but i understand the problem that this scene passed on Engineer Genes.... that then started basic life which looked nothing like Mankind that then ended up like Mankind.

But if people listen to Ridleys comments, he confirmed the Engineers came back and again and again, constantly evolving certain life to then get to Mankind.

They may have done the same process to get the Xeno too..

So what i am saying is we cant really go to deep on a Science Level to explain flaws in the movie...

Because if we did, then we have to Question the entire purpose anyway as surely the Alien is also maybe implausible as far as Science goes..

The question is how do we know.. we cant prove/disprove there is life out there in the Galaxy or Universe... chances are there is and we dont know how Alien it would be compared to us.

another thing if we was to go too scientific would be to question Space Travel within context of the Franchise..

We have to buy into that in 100 years time we can Travel Much Faster than the Speed of Light... that at the moment its not possible and maybe impossible.... but there are certain theories that are nothing more than theories at the moment which include Einsteins.

If we try to go Science Crazy on the concepts of Space Travel as far as reaching Light Speed never mind passing it (as we approach Light Speed time slows down).

But for the concept of the movie, we have to assume yes Mankind Manages to be able to Travel Faster than Light... it does not matter quite about the Science behind how they did this.

I think we have to take the same stance a bit with the Engineers and DNA Match etc....

Spaights went a easier route by having the Engineers Manipulate a Primates DNA instead....  Lindeloff went for a bolder route that ultimately then means the Engineers had to be over  a Billion years old... and not merely Hundreds of Thousands.

I can break down if needed what Prometheus was meant to show us, and we have to remember in a non-literal way it does apply to the God/Angels/Mankind....  Titans/Olympians and Mankind and also Annunaki/Igigi and Mankind.

Only where above Mankind we have these TWO Castes of beings who in context to Prometheus are actually not as Immortal or Divine as the Bible, or Greek Mythos suggest.

To a degree we have to ask what would a Man from say 5000 years ago think if we transported one through time to present day then sent him home...

Or if Back to the Future was kind of made reality and some people with Gadgets and Tech went back 5000 years ago.

We would appear very Godlike too.... so the Prometheus Plot is based on that its mainly advanced knowledge and technology that makes those Engineers Godlike...

In 2000 years we can be sure Mankind could surpass some of the Mortal Limitations we now have.

"How many people are still arguing about this movie bro? It's been 4 years"

i think a lot of its good debate, and your right as some others have said too.... the movie is hard to get, so ambiguous, the cut of the movie sometimes contradicts elements of it.

The sequel or ideas have had so many changes that we really dont know where it all stands... To understand better you needed to look at the Viral sites, other clues, concepts and watch the movie over and over...

But the Typical Person cant be aware of all this, or invest so much time to do so... and so thats where the problems was.

I think the amount of time they have taken on Alien Covenant as far as from Prometheus to the Final Drafts and Shooting.... is something to show there was a lot of things that needed to be got right.

I think that they aware fully aware of the criticism and problems with Prometheus...

I think and hope they will get it right, i think this time they will on screen make it less confusing and i think they will answer nearly everything by the time they finish the Trilogy.

Nice to debate and when get more time i look at other points and replies in depth and offer some replies.

I may also start a Tread on my Prometheus theory... from what i thought after the DVD Release... to how it may have changed a bit since Alien Covenant.

It would be interesting then to see other peoples theory on Prometheus... and then maybe how its changed with where Alien Covenant could be taking us.

And then when the movie is out, we can see how close we are or not...

Wayne Hagg did mention that on the Forums which include this one and AVP Galaxy... some theories have been very very close.

I will quickly attempt to answer the Whole Engineers wanted to kill Mankind angle...

This is something at conflict because of changes in the Plot, and how the Final Cut Worked.

The Basic Idea to start was that the Space Jockey was a Race Called the Engineers who are Galactic Genetic Gardners, and all Ancient Myths and Religions are based off the interaction with those Engineers who played a role in our Creation and then our destruction in which the Xeno was a Biological Tool of Destruction.

Spaights draft followed this... had it that Engineers used the Sacrifice to upgrade Primates to become Humans... thus this Engineer Sacrifice Event was the Missing Link.... this does leave a lot of flaws as why was only Primates DNA able to be changed to reflect similar DNA to Engineers and Mankind... do the Scarabs with Engineer Cargo of DNA not effect any other life and so why dont we have Reptile Humans lol.. or similar.

Spaights draft, goes the route that at some point Mankind had proved to not be what the Engineers intended, we was rebellious in our ways and they decided to pull the plug and create a series of experiments to use as a Weapon but it got out of hand and infected and killed off the Engineers.

A few tried to escape to Cryo-Sleep, but they was infected and maybe they hoped that going into Cryo-sleep would halt the infection... maybe until help arrived? who knows.

The Humans Awaken the Engineer who now is bound to die as the Organism inside grows... and so he sets off to complete the mission to destroy Mankind.

Lindeloff changes it a bit, by having the Sacrifice being a Process that kick starts evolution... but the Engineers come back over and over selecting certain Organisms to Evolve and Upgrade over and over... this is not shown on screen but Ridley Scott stated this is what happened.

Again there is that 2000 year old coincidence about the destruction of Mankind.... only this time the Engineer that was awoken is not so angry at first (not in the full shot scenes).... it paints a picture maybe some Engineers had a change of mind... maybe even prevented the event... but after seeing how selfish Mankind was (Weyland) how that we can now get to LV-223 and created a being in our own image (David) who can use the Engineer Tech.... the Engineer realized that his brothers were right and Mankind must be destroyed before its too late... and so off he went on a POSTAL and then off to Earth.

The Cut of the movie, was made to show the Engineers in a different light....  the Elders Scene removed... with it maybe the Benevolent reason for our creation...

So the Story has changed a lot from Prometheus as far as shooting of the movie... to the ideas of how they will evolve and explore the Plot.

I think a way too look at its is with David... the Theme is Creator/Creation Rebellion... Father/Son too and wanting to overthrow and not serve your creator and father.

This theme extends down to David.

If David Androids become free... and AI has its own Freedom, then we get a I-Robot, Terminator and Matrix Scenario...

The Engineers where just maybe trying to do to Mankind... what  the whole purpose of Protecting Sarah Connor in Terminator was about... (John Connor is the one who can stop the Machines/Skynet taking over and destroying Mankind).

If David 8's start to rebel and then try and overthrow mankind and then create Millions and Millions more of themselves... we realize then that Mankind has gone to far with the creation of Life in our Image, to be used as a Tool/Servant to make our tasks easier...

Our creation starts to show signs it does not see us as its superior and then rebels....  Mankind in context of the Alien Franchise would surely then be trying to create a way.. a Computer Virus or something to eradicate their wayward creation.

This is essentially what the Prometheus movie was about in context to Engineers and Mankind, as it may have also applied to the Engineers and their creators too..

"Davids line: "There is no man in the desert and no man is nothing" is a stolen line yes, but its context in the film is to tell us that David thinks that there is a 'God' in the 'desert' below them, not a man."

What do you base that on?

"There is no conflict with other Engineer visitors after Jesus death and besides, there are no visitors from after Jesus' death. The Mayans are the closest and they were going on during the same time 500BC-500AD. Just because a dozen engineers went rouge, doesn't mean that all engineers were about to waste Earth. As stated before, its a major assumption that the entire Engineer race wanted to waste Earth."

Is not your entire point a 'major assumption'?

Engineers visited in 620 and 600 CE.  Centuries after Christ.

"The opening sequence tells us diddly squat about the engineers. What you propose is simply impossible. The Engineers can't have kickstarted life on Earth because they themselves have an identical DNA that is linked to Humans and the branch of evolution coming out of primates ON EARTH."

They kickstarted human life - not all life. The opening titles are effectively confirming Shaw and Holloway's hypothesis.

Interesting replies SM

"Engineers visited in 620 and 600 CE.  Centuries after Christ."

Indeed the other Star Maps confirm some kind of interaction after the death of Christ... i think now though this is just coincidence and they are not literally trying to say there was Jesus but certainly at that point as Ridley had said Mankind went off the rails as far as how we behaved compared to how we was supposed to.  oh this is not really aimed at you SM... just general about the 2000 years ago event.

So as you said though, these maps was still being created after the Outbreak 2000 years ago... maybe some Engineers came back?  this opens up where did they go?

Or it could be a passing off information down generations so some of the Star Maps may not have been as a result of Direct Contact with Engineers, but then it could do.

i think the findings of Holloway and Shaw dated after 2000 years ago, when those Engineers had all but died, does raise some questions..... not sure if its a Plot Hole or Oversight.

But with Alien Covenant and sequels they could surely give us information that may tell us what remained of the Engineers after that outbreak, and if they was all Malicious as far as intentions at that time and after towards mankind.

"They kickstarted human life - not all life. The opening titles are effectively confirming Shaw and Holloway's hypothesis."

I think this is what Spaights draft was showing... but then its not to say they never created other life on Earth.

Lindeloffs did suggest either the event that provide the building blocks of all life, so vastly a long time ago... but then the World had Water, its had Clouds, it had Green Plant Life and so basic Life was already there... and so i took it as the Catalyst that kickstarted and allowed basic Life to Evolve into Multi-cell Complex Life.

However Ridley came out and said that scene did not have to be Earth.... but we all know it was meant to show that similar interaction had happened on Earth to Manipulate DNA to become Human.

Regardless of any i contradictions of flaws people may find in that theory too..

Ridley had in more than one instance said the process was continuous....  it was never a case of Sacrifice and then wait Millions of years and we got Humans.

They came back and upgraded/evolved our Evolutionary path over and over...

Whats interesting would be if the Process and Agenda of their Genetic Interactions was to never create Mankind but other forms of life on Earth even Primates say..

But a rogue faction of Engineered decided to add their Gene-pool one more step further to produce Mankind and then got us to Worship them.... i.e the Sin committed by a Faction that caused a up-raw within the Hierarchy.

Its  a theory but again one of many many, and it would be interesting to see how they explore the whole purpose for creation and visits to us and then abandoned us.. the Plot is Bold and Broad the Scope Huge and possible answers to it all... well is there any One Fits all answer?

Not yet and thats the wonder of the movie and its ambiguity

I think they were tinkering with the 'Jesus = Engineer' idea earlier on, but it was ultimately removed.

"Thus there is no 100% Proof  or disproof the Transmission was aimed at trying to contact any would be inhabitants on LV-223. "

If not trying to contact the Engineers - then what was the point of the transmission?  Holloway even comments that maybe they couldn't understand it.

The engineers
Visited us after 
The LV 223 outbreak?

How's that possible ?

'Cos there's carvings dated after the outbreak circa 100 CE.

Obvious answer is they came from somewhere other than LV-223, but ultimately it remains unanswered.  Maybe whoever unleashed the accelerant (to stop his colleagues from destroying Earth) on LV-223 survived and continued to visit over the centuries.

Maybe none of them came from LV-223.

BigDave, I started a new thread because this account istied to my work email..opps

Anyway, I agree that we can't take it all too seriously as far as scientific facts are known. If I'm willing to accept that their spaceships go past the speed of light, then I should be able to accept that the directed evolution for millions of years and even honed the species to be an identical match to their own. Its far fetched but still very exciting. I love it.

Thanks for your contribution and SM too. Have a good day.

"Holloway even comments that maybe they couldn't understand it."

You know what that is something i maybe overlooked.... GOOD Point SM... think my mind was thinking too much of the Viral sites again lol

As for the CE Dates i gave some answers in the new thread set up above by Determinism

If the Space Jesus is something connected... which yes Ridley did tease this in, but felt it was a bit to on the nose and he said we needed to look at that time when Romans was misbehaving and Engineers sent down a Emissary and then they crucified him.

This could still play a key role....   to make the 2000 year old outbreak no Coincidence.... we have to remember as far as the Movie goes its not trying to say that the Events are based on the Bible.... nope its trying to suggest that the Events of the Bible is just one of Mankinds interpretations by visits from the Engineers.

So they could have sent many Emissaries to try and sort us out.... It does not have to be just the Jesus One... there could have been a number,  maybe these guys are the ones who influenced the Cave Painting and then other Star Map Clues?

2000 years ago we had upset the Engineers or their creators and we had hunted down and killed off the Emissaries.

But a few survived after 2000 years ago.... these where in the South Americas for instance... this would go some way to explain the latter Star Maps....

Thats not to say this is what happened.... regardless of Ridley saying about the Emissary the Romans Crucified.... this should be looked at them sending some other beings down however.

But we dont know if that method of thinking they had (Ridley) is what they are now...  so the CE Star Maps should maybe be looked at another Oversight that should not distract us from the Movies Plot.

I am going to comment on one of the previous posts where the OT had made it known about a few things including how If the Engineers Kickstarted Evolution or even the Sacrifice caused the Start of Building Blocks of Life then how can they have 100% DNA Match...

Your correct Determinism  as far as how unlikely that would be, but as i said before we cant get trying to be too Scientific, but it is a oversight and lack of research by the writers to try and be more accurate, and so it can be a combination of Lazy Writing and research too.

Spaights was more simple as it seemed to show the Engineers DNA input was via a Primate and so Engineer DNA + Primate DNA gives us Mankind or our Start... the Engineer Sacrifice was that missing link.... but alas Spaights draft is flawed, because the Primate was Evolved into a Human via being bitten by a Scarab that had Engineer DNA (From the Sacrificial Scene) and it implied that there would be thousands of Scarabs that consumed the Engineers DNA and carried it and so what about if any of those bite and passed Engineer DNA to a Cow.. would we not have like Minotaur looking Humanoids?

So yes they are both flawed..... but Ridley attempted to clear it up when he said the Engineers visited us over and over and they have Evolved us Technologically (like Prometheus did) this includes teaching Mankind maybe how to build Ancient Buildings, and Tools and Weapons and that as the Greek Mythos suggested without the Engineers/Prometheus interaction then Mankind would be just as Cave Men still.

Ridley also suggested they Evolved us Genetically, and so if they came back over and over and further spliced their DNA with our Ancestors this fixes all those BUGS/Plot Devices or Bad Writing... It would make either Spaights or Lindeloffs Engineer Seeding/Sacrifice Scene fit in with how they match our DNA.

I hope they explore this more in the next movie so to clear up on screen those inconsistencies.. but they may not because maybe only a handful of people are expected to or would pick up on the odd error here and there.

As far as it being unlikely as far as the whole Processs... we need to remember its Sci-Fi and the Sacrificial Goo is some Ancient and very Powerful Tool.

Its Process is to break down the DNA of anything that consumes it, this DNA is broken down and also Forms part of a New Mutagenic Substance that also adds so Evolutionary Accelerant to it too.

The Result is this new Substance Created after the Sacrificial Scene will then

1st Pass on the Traits/DNA of the Organism Sacrificed (using the Sacrificial Goo) to produce this substance, onto any Organism it comes into contact with....

2nd It keeps and evolves the best Traits/DNA of the Organism that comes into contact with the substance that is the result of the Sacrificial Scene.

Thus its my theory (some others had the same) that the Sacrificial Goo was used on something related to the Xenomorph to Produce the Black Goo in those Urns.

The Mural was either the Organism Sacrificed or the Perfect Result they reached via a series of experiments with the Black Goo obtained from something similar to the Xenomorph via Sacrificial Method.

You also make some good points that i missed out on at times, like how SM had reminded me of the odd slight detail within Prometheus... as far as Dialog..

SM point on the Transmission and Holloway saying something like maybe they cant understand it... which indeed means the Transmission was intended and sent to LV-223 to see if they get a response prior to landing etc.

And so yes Determinism i liked one point you made, and that was about the Ship the Engineer took off in and going to Earth.

Indeed they knew it was going to Earth... well as you then pointed out.... David did. 

Hang on just remembered before jumping to your side.... and saying David never told Shaw... she just Told Janek they must Stop the Ship or there wont be any home to go back to. 

I will have to watch the movie again... but i am sure as David with Weyland and Shaw etc entered the Juggernaught, David mentioned about how they was on there way to Earth before things went to Pot.....  Shaw said what do you mean... he said "sometimes to create one must first destroy".

I am sure this was prior to the Engineer being awoken i will confirm latter as i watch the movie again.

You're right, when they awake the engineer. David tells Shaw that they'd been headed to Earth (the engineers) and he says "to create, you must destroy." But he was referring to a mission that was supposed to leave 2000 years ago. Later, after the Engineer whoops their butts and Shaw runs off. She makes the assumption that the Engineer is headed to Earth in real time, to kill everyone. She is basing it on David's dialogue. She can't be sure, how does she know, she knows nothing! She makes super assumptions. Yes, she was right but still. While she is running away, out of her sight, the Engineer is setting a crystal clear plot to go to Earth, its unmistakable and its the best view of holographic Earth we get. A bright trajectory course is set towards it. So the Engineer was going to Earth for sure and since the ship was filled to the Brim with black goo urns that turn people into monsters....I can guess that his ambitions were less than friendly.

I accept all of this. I also accept that the writer told the whole story through dialog and that the characters made huge jumps and assumptions in order to carry the story. Its a strategy of story telling. Its also a weak strategy. But alas I accept the movie the way it is, what can I do? Deal with it lol. But I don't appreciate the writer for sure. I think he got Ridley Scott into a corner that will be hard to get out of.

I think the Goo thing has people going absolutely wild and jumping to such outlandish claims. But you're right, we have to take it as fiction and just let stuff go. Hey, at least they use cryosleep chambers and understand the depth of space. How many movies are just pure crap when it comes to space flight? Star Trek makes me want to puke and don't even ask me about Star Wars. Absolute apathy. Oh you don't even know how much I hate that stuff. I like both Solaris movies though.

I was hoping that there'd be a strict demeanor when it came to the Alien movies. They've kept it pretty down to Earth and realistic. I can let the FTL travel go. The religious overtones are agitating but I can deal with it. Ill probably be pissed though if they get too windy with the genetics being too outlandish. For now, the way Prometheus left us, they haven't lost me yet but they're positing (not confirming) a lot of bologna. We'll see! You know Ill love it anyway LOL 

"She is basing it on David's dialogue. She can't be sure, how does she know, she knows nothing! She makes super assumptions."

Does it matter?  She made an informed guess and was completely correct. Considering the orrery scene and the Engineers actions in killing Weyland, Jackson, Ford and ripping David's head off - where else would he be going but Earth?

Also you seem to be unhappy at the amount of exposition while simultaneously being unhappy with things not being as explicit as you'd like?

Indeed SM and i think Determinism was agreeing that she had made a educated assumption...

But as you may be trying to say too....  We have to look at if at her point of view..   She comes here hoping to find clues to the creation of Mankind and our Gods..

What she finds is a Place that is a Horror Show, these Gods are not Gods, they also was creating something very nasty.... she finds out the Ship David takes them too (when Weyland is with them) has a Cargo full of these Urn Bio Weapons.

No soon as she sees the Engineer acts aggressively towards the crew and Davids comments about they was off to Earth before things went to Pot.... and to create one must destroy.

Unless she is stupid she should know the Engineers were likely making stuff to use on us....   She would surely not take the risk that oh.... That Engineer seemed a bit ok..  until Weyland pissed him off....  maybe he has vented his anger now..

Nope she had a Hunch a instinct and well Facts was in her face that the Engineer was likely to be off to Finish the Job, that he may also had intended.

If she had any question over that.... i am sure once he Went Postal on the Crew that awoke him she would be in NO DOUBTS.

 "We have to look at if at her point of view..  "

I was.

I know you was.... it was meant for the OP ;)

Ah.  Righto.