Lindelof:Hero or villain

Lindelof took a huge beating and still does(thus this thread).I think almost immediately he said he wasn't going to be involved with this way back when it still was Prometheus 2.

yea, in an interview soon after the released of Prometheus and after they had a chance to gauge viewers opinion, he seem very downbeat about getting involved in any sequal

I got the impression that the Paradise script is not something he would've written if he was on board at the start.  He seemed to be a writer for hire taking what they liked from Spaihts script and moulding it to what Ridley wanted.

Yeah that's basically what happened, Ridley didn't want to make another pure Alien film but instead move away with a parallel universe with a much larger scope, and so Spaiths Alien script was eventually changed.

He got the job i believe while he was "celebrating" the lost finale,at least that is what I've read.

Yep, I remember him stating something like that he received the call on the highway and had pull the car over because he was so shocked that Ridley called him. 

He signed a 3- part contract if I'm not mistaken, being super excited to be given the opportunity to work with Ridley on an Alien film.

After Prometheus however, he left, NOW stating he was busy with other projects. Hmm...I don't think that was the case.

I don't want to bash the guy but I think the true reason he left was obviously because of all the criticism towards him on social media, where he was pretty active in replying to criticism himself (rarely a good idea) before eventually leaving twitter as well. Had he ignored the hate he I'm sure wouldn't be as affected. 

Maybe it was the best thing considering how downright hateful and harrassing some people were, and I sincerely, absolutely dislike such behaviour.

That being said legitimate criticism is something a professional writer has to take into consideration in his/her mind, as no writer's work is loved by everyone. 

wrote a decent sized reply but damn works computer froze when I posted it so heres short version:

lindeloff unfortunate

criticism to be expected no matter how good a job he did

though some criticism was way OTT and personal, criticism comes with the job

don't blame him one bit for walking away

he gave us what ridley wanted and remember we r here asking to see more on the engineers, theyr civilisation, reasons for wanting to destroy us. regardless of ppl admitting or accepting this, these facts are in part down to lindeloff due a lot of his changes to spaights' original script

I'm thankfull we got Prometheus instead of an Alien prequel, because Alien doesn't need a prequel, so if Lindelolof played a part in making it possible I'm thankfull of him as well.

I have nothing against John Sphait however and I hope he gets to do something that makes up for this experience.

Well an Alien prequel is still coming in the form of Alien  Covenant.It's also the first in a planned trilogy.

I think Guys i gonna have to sort out and finish off my Prometheus Re-write that i was working on but then stopped...

Its a bit more Lindeloffs draft 75% bit of Spaights 10% maybe 12.5% and then 10-15% my own added bits and bobs.... to give us a Lindeloffs with more clues and explanations for any silly parts.

Thanks BigDave when do you do think it'll be finished.

Also where can i read Lindelof's original draft?

But my draft would have not had no Xenomorphs.... there was not much from Spaights as i felt Lindeloffs draft was much better.

if it was not for Character Flaws... how on screen clues was not shown as much and the Xeno DNA...

Yes Fifield was not Toxic Avenger, i would have gone for one of the other Two Concepts that was never used... well a merger of these TWO

I would have had it when they go to see the Last Engineer, and David tells them to take their Helmets off and Shaw mentions about they dont know if the infection was Airborne..

Ford would not remove hers.. David would then just say "you agreed earlier the atmosphere was cleaner than Earths"

She would then notice Milburn....  The Hammerpede would jump out and go at her... it would curl around her neck and Flair Up showing its teeth and about to break the Glass... When with help she removed her helmet and the Hammerpede falls to the ground with it....  and Janek Shoots it....  we see Acid split out and Melt the Helmet and then see the Hammerpede move around until someone Flames it (one of the Mercs)  we then see it burning.... But then catch inside of it... some Eggs about a Dozen... they dont look normal Eggs.. yet not quite Xeno Eggs.

Yes i explain away the Merc... as after Jackson gets thrown and breaks his neck, my draft the other Merc Tries to Torch the Engineer but his Flamer does not work and the Engineer tosses him to a explosion..  

Shaw runs off.... and Ford just stands there.. the Engineer ignores her and she just falls on the floor having a heart attack due to Shock.

This scene covered one of the missing Mercs.... the other was with Fifield and Milburn,  he goes and opens the Mural Door... where we see more clues.... but Milburn and Fifield are afraid and soon leave.... and the Door Shuts down on the Merc.. he did not make it under in time and loses his arms...

Fifield and Milburn spooked and Fifield smokes Weed.. then he swaps helmets with Milburn for a few puffs... this would explain the Space Cobra petting...  And Fifield and Milburn Trapped inside...

David who has to open the Door again... when Weyland and Co come down..

just few bits like this that could made the movie so much better.

Ha ha... i misplaced it on a hard drive, but it was work in progress...  but a number of scenes was to be changed..

Behind the Mural Room would have been a Scene like from Star Beast

Not had been the same... but it would have had a brief look at Gigers Face Huger Concepts.

The idea was to show the other Room was a Sacrificial Chamber hinted at either creating the Mural.... or the Black Goo to go into the Urns.... it would have been ambiguous to decide which.

Screen time would not have been long and only the Merc got a  look inside...  

The Mural and Frescos i would have put a few more seconds on too...

The idea is that a bit more clues could have gone a  long way, a more Xeno like Fifield would have connected the Black Goo more.

Showing the Burnt Hammerpede had Eggs in a sack could be a ambiguous clue to the Xenomorph Eggs...  but it would be ambiguous because then you ask? Why go in Milburns mouth?

Shame as to cross reference some ways Spaights did Characters and Dialog and apply to some of Lindeloffs Goofy stuff would have made a big difference.

To evaluate Lindelof we need to know precisely what he contributed to the movie. Two elements he was very much responsible for :-

1) The growth of the mythos of the story which Ridley liked.

2) The low exposition.

On both counts I love the movie for those qualities. I haven't enjoyed thinking about a franchise movie more than Prometheus.

There were three structural failings with the film which may or may not be his fault.

1) The failure to make Peter Weyland's story clear. The Prometheus mission was a sham. His daughter recruited a lot of paid hacks to populate the ship and she never believed in the mission or cared about the idiots she recruited. The two things she was concerned about was the return of the vessel and thats why she made a connection with the other the Captain, he was important the rest of the crew were expendable. She obviously thought the Jesus sandals Shaw was a religious facist who was going to make a complete fool of herself. None of that came across clearly enough because Weyland's role was to low down in the mix. As Charlie  said is there another agenda here YES.

2) The back and forth to the pyramid was clunky. The first visit should have achieved more (we should have gained a clear idea that the Engineers saw us as an experiment that they upgraded from time to time which would have led into the reason to redact us) that and Fifield and Milburn should have been ordered to stay to follow through on the pups and for more sampling collecting such as the little ALIEN guy. With the little ALIEN guy giving confidence Milburns naivety, though still incautious, like all of his behaviour makes more sense.

3) The company should have set off for the Engineer (ignoring and not caring about a silent Milburn or Fifield with Janek showing his true quality and arguing they should go look for them and been overruled) and been waylaid by a Zeno Fifield who should remind us of the danger they are coming into when we see he is Zeno related. The security detail should have dealt with him as the core moved to the Juggernaut and that would ratcheted up the tension.    

Other than that the denouement with the Engineer his emblematic response to Weyland, that after experimenting with us they wanted to redact us "because they could" and that the Prometheus now had to deal with the biggest threat ever in the series the end of mankind was great.  

That the derelict and space jockey was left as (this is how it could have come about) was fine. But when they were in the pyramid a positive connection with the life cycle should have indicated at some point the derelict took off from LV 223. Indeed in the closing pages if David had said there are more ships with different horrors on board that would have made it clear. We may off course find out through flashbacks and the prequel book that David discovered a Juggernaut with Eggs and flew it to Paradise as Michael said only Shaw and David remain "as far as we know".

Many of the criticisms I see about helmets and the like seem to treat the film as a Nasa public education film for how to deal with a known threat. Story and character carry a really great film and to present something cinematically and tell a story involves human frailty sometimes that has to be indulged in. With Prometheus the entire gambit of seeking eternal life was hubristic and ridiculous and a wrong call just as Prometheus should not have stolen the fire but for me its a damned interesting thing to explore.  

I also think if one sits there knowing a threat is round the corner and try to work out how to avoid it and test the participants against that view point I see little point in entering the cinema in the first place. If there is no suspension there is no engagement. Put more simply if you are going to attempt make the characters wrong from a perfect perspective forget it, if you do not like the story and the characters but like the franchise as a whole pass on that one. Like Ridley I think the Alien V Preditor is silly so I do not watch it.     

Great post Michelle Johnston. I'm glad to see more people got that the mission was a cover up and that the people hired were chosen not because of their proffesionalism but because they were expendable.

About Fifeld and Millburn collecting samples and "the little alien guys",i think your ignoring the fact that those didn't exist quit yet.The hammerpedes evolved from the worms in the antichamber when they were contaminated by the black goo,for which they were not present,but yes Millburn's actions are pretty naive bioligist or no.And yes they should not have allowed to leave.

"Also where can i read Lindelof's original draft?"

I think if you Google 'Alien Engineers script' something should turn up.

I will simply put it this way

I hate him for what prometheus could be but i love him for what it was.

Michelle Johnston

For the record i love all your writings ,it shows a huge ammount of intelligence on perception and interpretation.seriously!

That prometheus interpretation is spot on how the movie must work for the public general public

To the OP, my biggest issue was that I just didn't care about the characters except for David. Vickers was pretty good but could have been much better. Weyland......well we all know. Everyone else was forgettable and maybe that was Lindelof's biggest mistake.

Thanks S.M. for the info.

@Wrenchpole & Tiago Miami La

Thank you for your kind words. With a handful of topics I am an obsessive hobbyist and I am glad that perfect strangers can offer robust direct views recognising it comes from passion about the subject rather than a determination to always be right.

@ninXeno426  

Apologies I did not make my point clearer. I am referring to the little Alien creature that they found and put in a container that was cut from the movie. That scene featured everyone and could have set off a sense of achievement and that the reason for most of them to return was the storm, but Milburn excited by the little Alien character would be anxious then to check out for some more. Fifield was logical to stay behind to keep tabs on the pups.  

@Wrenchpole & Tiago Miami La

Thank you for your kind words. With a handful of topics I am an obsessive hobbyist and I am glad that perfect strangers can offer robust direct views recognising it comes from passion about the subject rather than a determination to always be right.

@ninXeno426  

Apologies I did not make my point clearer. I am referring to the little Alien creature that they found and put in a container that was cut from the movie. That scene featured everyone and could have set off a sense of achievement and that the reason for most of them to return was the storm, but Milburn excited by the little Alien character would be anxious then to check out for some more. Fifield was logical to stay behind to keep tabs on the pups.  

My apologies as well I only have the dvd and have never witnessed that scene,I thought you ment the hammerpedes.Forgive me im kind of new here.I thought your piece was great regardless.

the great thing is everyone has theyr own wee bit of theory on what will happen next. we also seem to view the earlier films a little differently as to characters and meaning. shows just how special the world that ridley scott created for us is to people. brings people from al over the world together for discussion and to exchange ideas. I myself am in bonny yet bl00dy freezing scotland

Your from Scotland!Im from the United States(you probably guessed that already though).

lol I guessed most on here r from the US

Thats probably true lol.

It's probably morning over.Right now its 1:30 at night over here.