What happened to Shaw

@Tiago_miami_la

That would be interesting....  the Term Covenant has to play a key role.... maybe they find these beings...

David makes a Covenant with them, in-exchange for Shaw after he informs them about what he did to her in Prometheus... they use Shaw to create something....

Then David breaks the Covenant with the Engineers after they have showed him what the Black Goo was intended for... and David then takes out those few remaining Engineers?

As far as what the Black Goo does..

I have covered it in depth on many topics.. so i will cover it in a nutshell.

Black Goo =  Substance that contains Xeno related DNA

The Black Goo could be looked at a case of what if the Sacrificial Engineer had broken down his Material in a Shower and the resulting substance was collected and stored in Jars and the Jars then thrown into the Water Fall.... The End Result would be the same.

So Xeno related Black Goo Urns.... will infect a Organisms DNA and create a Hybrid depending on form of ingestion and contact and the amount of contact.

Holloway either passed on Hybrid Sperm or even a Parasitic Xeno related Organism (contained in top of the vials.. which mean the black slime around the vials acted like Sacrificial Goo) the result was one of these infected her Eggs and she then gave birth to a Hybrid Human/Xeno related Face Hugger.

Hammerpedes contracted the mixed Black Goo substance and evolved into Worm/Xeno related Hyrbids.

Fifield was due to mutate into a more Xeno-like Hybrid, and there was a number of concepts for this.. that was even more Xeno looking than the CGI Fifield... but we ended up with Toxic Avenger Fifield...

Where we have to assume he did not change much as he had less of the Black Goo infecting him but over time he would change more and more..

Holloway.. this is a puzzle... which i have  a few theories.. each have contradicting points.. not my Fault... just how they actually showed it themselves (never thought it out much)... but i would say Holloway was either

*evolving into something slowly.. due to small amount infection

*breaking down like the Sacrificial Engineer at a slower Rate due to infection.

Again un-used props provide a answer... as Holloway started to burst out with Worms...

The best way to look at it.. is go and read Spaights Alien Engineers.

Look at the Sacrificial Scene and Fifield Scene..

Replace Nano-Scarabs with Black Goo

Or Nano-Scarabs with Nano-worms with part of the Urns as a Accelerant.

Fun Fact: The Ark of the Covenant was the Judaic holy vessel for God's law and Glory. It was also allegedly a fearsome totem that wrought havoc on the battlefield. The covenant patch is a reference to the angels that sat on top of it. 

Lots of overlap on that one, when you think about how the engineers depict the eggs.

The Ark of the Covenant

Can maybe fit into it.... the very image of those Cherubim looking like those on the Ark could play a role.. but then maybe not...  The movie is called Covenant... which again could mean the Ark of the Covenant but then again maybe not.

its open to debate...  and interpretation and there are many many ways we could try and fit it.... but i think for sure we have to break down the components.

Covenant: Is a agreement made between God, a Pact...  the main ones in the Bible are after the Flood when God makes a Covenant that he will never use Flood on Mankind again.. and he then as he saved Noah as he was pure and served God without Question.. that its now down to Noah to teach Gods rules to his offspring.

Moses.. Gods Covenant was to protect and give land back to the Jews who would follow Moses and Gods Rules (10 Commandments).

So in context to the movie and Engineers... it has to be

*That following the Gods intended Rule and Purpose, by Covenant insures safety for their creations... break it and well... Punishment

*That after attempted Punishment, the Gods had decided to make a Covenant to never use this Punishment again but this Covenant could be broken once Mankind has gained access to Paradise/LV-223 and the Engineers Tech.

Cherubim:  Are a high ranking caste of Angels, who are tasked with Guarding the Garden of Eden and Paradise, so that all that is created there can not be corrupted. And not fall into the wrong hands.

Therefore there must be a Race connected to the Engineers or their creators who are or were these Cherubim

The Ark of the Covenant: In this context the Covenant carries Gods Covenant with Mankind... his Rules, that are intended for only the eyes of his selected few as far as knowledge of them.  They are protected in the Ark by great forces.

The Cherubim on the Ark are therefore to show that the Contents of the Ark (Covenant) which is Gods Rules and Agreement with Mankind...  are protected by these Cherubim so the contents of the Ark can not fall into the wrong hands and any attempt to do so.... results in Punishment.

Yes we could go as far as to try and fit the Rod of Arron into it...

But i think we need to remember these themes are loosely to be explored and not literally.

Tiago-

Yes, that is the dark, twisted sick stuff that should happen.

I would think therefor the Black Goo experiments... could have been like the Flood.. and a Covenant is made to not attempt this again...

Then again also... i think Paradise maybe held the key to a Forbidden Fruit.... only intended to be used by God and who he gives permission to use. for purposes of how God intended.

The Cherubim thus could be those who guard the source of that Power (Sacrificial Goo) Forbidden Fruit/Fire

Maybe also the Cherubim was tasked with Punishment for those who go against God.... but maybe some of them went against God themselves..

I think its a good chance that the LV-223 Engineers are Fallen Cherubim  who have revolted against their creators and purpose... much like we saw David had begun to in Prometheus.

@dk

My comments are how i interpret things.. but a source i had also gave clues that would more so push me to the same conclusions....  they also teased at maybe something very sinister like Tiago had mentioned...

They said the Engineers and Mankind are involved in a Horrific Agenda... for those beings above them... and its more closer to the Matrix Plot in a way.

But this was the so called Prometheus 2 Pandemonium Draft of Micheal Green... and i cant say if they was lying about this too.

But regardless... its been re-wrote 3-4 times by John Logan to give us Alien Covenant.

I was just mentioning it for the juxtaposition of the two "arks" and how they are similar. The Jews thought the Ark was sacred and were also instructed to carry it into battle with them.

The same way the engineers venerate the eggs and also seem to use them in battle or for conquest. 

And the penalty for handling both incorrectly was death.

@BigDave totally on the same page with the LV-223 Engineers.

BigDave

I think we posted simultaneously. I didn't intend to interfere with your posts. I appreciate your response.

@BigDave

Yes , i mean we can safely assume the trailer spoiled some stuff...the less important...touching on the things that get majority hooked..facehugger..eggs...alien...

But, i strongly believe the true horror and bigger plots are well hidden

If they did in fact spoiled majority of the movie in a trailer and showing key plot scenes....then people would enter that theater and get out very disapointed...i dont think they are that dumb..ridley isnt that dumb

A very horrorific scene is under their sleeve and all the suspense about shaw role points to that...not just "lets put her in cryosleep" "..lets tease them the  main creature and the neomorph...lets only save the adult version..." " lets show them backburster and save the other neo bursts for the movie"(head neck) lets make this about "david and walter twist" fans will be happy chaps...

No we wont..thats a big fuck u to ridley and fox...and i highly doubt they will take those chances. So im taking the leaks as major trailer interpretations...because thats what the trailer give us..the leaks with a little self conducted imagination and good writting pieced together.

They might be right in some points...but they cant be true as a whole

It would make it a bland movie with just fanboy plot devices and no substance or content for the true alien prometheus fans.

I thought this conscientiously and i think they holding all of this major plot stuff under their sleeve for the ultimate unveiling experience.

If they are smart they doing this and made shaw have this role o mentioned.

A chained captured elder engineer by david would give a very intersting scene with dialogue.would give us a hell of a vision and info too.it would be a whole better scene then shooting and blowing shit up again and again.

And just please ridley dont u make the biggest scene in ac being the xeno you spoiled us already...dont u make that xeno be the ultimate setting of ac like the poster hints and trailer..

Considering we gonna have alien 5 and more aliens..possibly of they are smart enough..they gonna adapt their concepts with alien rogue one..and they will bring the king under weyland yutani control..to erase the queen..according to the concepts they will take this route..so i dig that..alien 5 wrapping it all up..ripley dies..newt survives..lets go crazy

But ac...having the alien as ultimate setting...tomthenn having alien 5 again with alien...ye you cook the beast fast as hell. At least surprise us with a damm ultramorph..thats what majority is waiting for ages.

That little puppy wont scare anyone anymore..i watched many getting killed already.

I see this go three ways

1. Shaw dies somehow.

2. Shaw starts/becomes something that we haven't seen before.

3. Shaw escapes from crazy and evil David and is somewhere else on the planet or somewhere else by using escape pod during their flight with the alien ship.

Lastly Ridley hasn't showed us the real trick/tricks in his sleeve yet until the 19 of May 2017. Now there is a certain amount of smoke surrounding the story of AC.

What if they have decided to resurrect what David did to Shaw (aka Watts) in Spaihts' draft for Prometheus?

"Watts awakens. Her helmet is gone.
DAVID is dragging her across the floor - into a huge cargo
hold full of Alien eggs. The wide trench holding hundreds of
eggs under a membrane of light: an evolution of the
molluscoids Watts saw before. Armored, hardened, darker.

WATTS
DAVID. What are you doing?

He hauls her upright to let her look across the huge space.
His grip looks casual but it might as well be iron manacles.

DAVID
Juggernaut, the chariot of Krishna,
was also a bringer of death. Crushing
his worshippers under its wheels.

He drags Watts down into the trench. Breaking the membrane of light. Grips her against his chest like a doll with one arm.

DAVID (CONT’D)
This ship has seven other cargo bays
like this one. The eggs in each bay
slightly different. They’ve been
weaponized.

Watts struggles to free herself. DAVID’s arm is inescapable.

DAVID (CONT’D)
I’ve seen the Juggernaut’s flight
plan. Its destination was Earth.
Seventeen hundred years ago. This was
the ship that never came. This was its
cargo.

DAVID caresses an Alien egg. It opens under his touch -
fleshy petals folding wetly back.
Watts twists frantically in his grip. Wild-eyed.

WATTS
Stop!

DAVID
Perfect predators. Designed to kill
human beings. That’s what the
Engineers were bringing to Earth. This
was a death ship.

A facehugger emerges from the egg, its grotesque fingers
clawing at the air. This is not the boneless squid that
attacked Holloway; this is a pale skeletal hand, armored.
DAVID strokes it curiously: the thing ignores his touch.
Climbs Watts’s body.

DAVID (CONT’D)
I’m not what it wants. But you, with
your warm wet breath...it knows you.

WATTS
DAVID. No. No.

The facehugger scuttles toward her face. Watts shrieks.
DAVID grabs it nonchalantly by the tail. Dangles it in front
of their faces, studying it.

DAVID
The Engineers did their work too well.
And on this waystation moon, the
weapon they made destroyed them.

Watts shudders, staring at the thing. For a moment the
grander horror eclipses her own peril.

WATTS
Why would they make such things?

DAVID
To destroy their wayward children.
(intoning)
“And the LORD said, I will destroy man
whom I have created from the face of
the earth...for it repenteth me that I
have made them.” Genesis six seven.

He regards Watts with something almost like pity.

DAVID (CONT’D)
I know. I met my creators the day I
was born. I was disappointed too.

He lets the facehugger go.
Watts twists her face away as the long fingers close around
her head. Clenches her teeth against the vile proboscis
thrusting at her mouth. Her heels hammer the deck.

DAVID (CONT’D)
(whispering to her)
Extraordinary.

The scaly tail throttles her. Her mouth opens. The proboscis
plunges home. The facehugger seats itself.
Watts collapses in DAVID’s arms, a faceless rag doll. Her
blasphemous passenger secure in its place."

Great description, that could happen to Shaw in AC but then where would the eggs come from?

Also, could you write the whole script on the Alien Stories forum.

@Movie fan

I think the eggs come from her via the Giger birthing machine depicted in his art. I think David makes the covenant with the Engineers to help them continue whatever work they were doing and in doing so, the Engineers discover how/what David did with Holloway/Shaw. She becomes the progenitor to the Queen. 

Movie fan

According to that draft, the engineers had already created eggs. Several types in fact. It appears the trilobite was inspired by a similar facehugger that ended up implanting in Holloway and ultimately lead to his death. Which leads me to believe that AC may present the eggs as something David merely happens upon which the engineers created a long time ago (and may not actually get into the mechanics of how they did so)

Also if you'd like to see the whole script you can see it here

Thank you :)

Hicks/Hudson

In regards to your theory about David creating the eggs via using Shaw as the progenitor to the Queen...This is what I initially thought when I first started posting on this site after Christmas (hence my user name.)

While I still think Shaw as the proto queen is possible, I am also considering Paglen may have decided to return to Spaihts idea outlined in the excerpt above.

It's possible that setting Shaw up to be the Queen was a Lindelof idea (mostly because Lindelof was the one who made Shaw pregnant with a massive facehugger instead of Spaihts chestburster option)

Really it could go either way and I still find myself undecided between the two. I will say though, after reading the Spaihts draft and seeing how it appears that Alien Covenant may end up addressing those things Lindelof decided to remove (also taking into consideration that Ridley and Fox may be a little frustrated with how Lindelof handled Prometheus) I am now wondering if we are going to see the 'Shaw as the first queen' idea tossed out. Though I think I will be happy with either option.

"I was just mentioning it for the juxtaposition of the two "arks" and how they are similar"

I understand, and i never meant to come across as to say like NO there cant be a direct or loose connection to the Ark of the Covenant... we cant rule that out, the Covenant has to be connected and those Cherubim but are they connected to the movie  directly together like the ARK or as separate things like i was touching upon.

I think there has to be a meaning... like Prometheus we are pushed to wonder if the Engineers or a Faction of them had been the Prometheus of Mythos... but also we are shown that Weyland seems to wanting to be following a similar route.

So i think Covenant will have more than one reference.

"I didn't intend to interfere with your posts."

You did not DK, not at all... its interesting to look at other peoples views and a lot of us would have some ideas and theories that match.

"Yes , i mean we can safely assume the trailer spoiled some stuff...the less important...touching on the things that get majority hooked..facehugger..eggs...alien..."

Tiago... i fully agree.. this movie trailer is spoilery the shots and information officially released and the Press Screenings which FOX no doubt should know would get out into the Public Domain are spoilery... leaves not much to the imagination.

As far as the Alien Connections that is... maybe its to Hook the Fans in...

But i feel and hope there is more to it than that, and stuff they are hiding...  but i worry what they are hiding could just be... oh David decided as he knows the Engineers reasons himself, that he just kill them off for Shaw because "does not everyone want their parents dead"     And the TWIST is David takes out Walter and steals his clothes to pretend to be him.

"Considering we gonna have alien 5 and more aliens..possibly of they are smart enough"

Totally agree.... Prometheus was opening up some interesting ideas... of which the Xenomorph would be maybe just like to Mankind...  Look we created a F16 Fighter Jet, or a M1 Abrams Tank or the AR15/M16 rifle/M4 Carbine Assault Weapons.

There is more to Mankind than just those.....

So i would be concerned if they feel the whole Engineer Arc, includes who created them, there history and why they created..  is to take a back seat and they feel all we need to know is they created Xenomorphs and Black Goo because they got angry at us..

Which then leads to a Alieny movie... that leads to another Alieny movie (surviving many more colonists and either Xenos on board.. or they go to LV-223).

Then a 3rd Alieny movie with more Xenos and we find out about the Space Jockey and especially if its now a event post Prometheus....

No Thank You

Not When Alien 5 will be a Alien flick, and if it does well.. we will see Newt have the Torch passed for what Alien 6, 7 etc

What to milk the Franchise the Monster and introduce it to a new Audience who was not around in the 80's and 90's

But Ridley had said the Franchise was about the Alien and Ripley and mentioned the Star Wars Franchise and going a a few more rounds...

We have Star Wars EP 4-6... then 1-3... now EP 7-9 but then talk of a EP 10-12... plus god knows how many side movies...

By the end of it, i think the Original Trilogy would have lost its Shine.... and i feel the Xenomorph will be the same... as it gets Overcooked.

Fingers Crossed shoulders of neptune

QueenElizabethShaw

some good ideas for Spaights draft, it had more Alieny connections... i liked Lindeloffs more, but i think it needed a few more Spoon Fed Alien elements and also tone down some of the Silly Character work..

Lindeloffs Characters were more like say a Alien Resurrections compared to a Spaights Alien 3... or more like Spaights being a AVP compared to Lindeloffs a AVPR...   By that a more serious approach compared to some unnecessary cheesy and goofy characters.

I always felt and hoped that a more Spaights draft in part could had been used as a Prometheus sequel... i think especially with the motives of the Engineers and connections to their experiments and also indeed maybe David could be more Malice this time around (but i am thinking the Twist is Walter being the Bad Guy).

Alien Covenant seems to be borrowing more from the Alien encounters part really...

Here are Alien Engineers Encounters..

Alien Engineers Xeno Related Encounters

1) Hammerpede (Centipede) Victim Milburn, Choked to death. (very similar to Prometheus).

HAMMERPEDE Death toll X1, then disappears.

2) Fifield he runs off knocks over a Urn/Vase, swarms of Nano-Scarabs (from Sacrificial Scene) swarm at his visor he swats one and it bleeds Acid that then allows another Scarab to get in and bite Fifield... Evolving him. (we see him changing a bit) after Holloway Chest Buster Scene

Latter on he is discovered by the crew (Vickers and Shepard) and his appearance is a Hybrid of Human and Hard-Shelled Alien... elongated head, spines on his back.

He mortally wounds the Merc... goes to get Vickers, but he is shot by the dying Merc and Fifield Hybrid bleeds Acid, as he falls on Vickers and she dies as she is eaten by the Acid Blood.

First True Xeno-ish monster but the second Attack Encounter by such things.

FIFIELD HYBRID Death Toll X2 (one caused by Acid after its own death)  killed by Merc

3) Holloway is Face Hugged by a Octopus type Face Hugger, and latter Chest Bursts a Octopus (Trilobite) Chest Burster that runs after Watts (Shaw) she escapes.  The Octopoid Chest Buster Organism goes missing and its hunted down..  its found in a shaft and kills one person before escapes....

Latter its encountered again but has evolved  now seems more humanoid but no Bones, but has elongated dolphin head and spint back.... most likely its structure is like the Adult Trilobite in Prometheus. Its head is see through with a image of what looks like Holloway inside.  It kills another Crew member  (one other is shot by another crew member)

It it latter encountered by Janak and he is attacked by it but Watts (Shaw) comes to the rescue and kills it

HOLLOWAY XENO Death Toll x3, (1 Chest burst event) then killed by Watts.

4) Watts C-Section (Shaw) goes to find what happend to Holloway after his death she wants answers and follows his camera recordings...  David finds her and takes her into a Egg Chamber and gets her Face Hugged......  She removes the Alien via C-Section latter....  it is small Parasite that then grows fast (see it evolve by cracking open from its back and growing limbs) it then kills a crew member, Watts passes out then awakens and the Alien Child she gave birth to is now fully grown she gets out of the Med Pod and manages to kill it...

XENOMORPH 1 Death Toll x1, then killed by Watts.

5) Ravel and Chances bodies (who was working on getting some Engineer Tech down from the Pyramids) are found chest busted with two face Huggers by the side of them.

Xenomorph 2 is spoted as its not quite adult and its killed.

Xenomorph 3 is killed by the Engineer as it was in hiding ready to strike.

XENOMORPH 2-3 Death Toll = 2, (both Chest Burst Events). both killed

6) Utramorph is born from the Engineer he is already infected prior to going into Cryo-sleep and so when awoken his fate was sealed.  The Ultramorph escapes from the Crashed Juggernaught and chases Watts who eventually kills it.

ULTRAMORPH Death Toll = 1 (Engineer Chest Busted) killed by Watts

Alien Engineers showed us...

A Hamerpede who kills 1 Crew then escapes.

A Fifield Hybrid who kills 2 Crew gets killed by someone who is dying and Fifields Acid pouring body kills Vickers.

3 Xenomorphs.. (one Shaws C-Section) these kill One Person (Watts Chest Buster) plus the TWO Hosts for them... and are killed.

4 Holloway Chest Buster... kills 2 Crew before it is killed.

5 Ultramorph kills no one apart from Engineer Chest Busted from....

Xeno-related Organisms (inc Hammerpede and Fifield) X 7  Deaths by Chest Busting (inc Engineer) X 5  Deaths by killing 6

Biggest Killer..... LOL Watts with 3 Xenomorph kills to her name.... her Xeno Child, Holloways Xeno and Ultramorph

So Alien Engineers showed us 5 Different Xeno related Organisms compared to Prometheus only showing us 3 (if we count Trillobite/Deacon as part of same Organism).

Total encountered monsters was 7 compared to Prometheus 4 (2X Hammerpedes).

So it will be interesting to see how many AC shows us... right now it looks like TWO KINDS  and maybe Total of 3-4 Monsters... with 3-4 deaths via Chest Buster type events (inc Back Burster and Throat Burster).

I think we can see these Monsters actually kill 5-6 Crew members, with 1-2 crew dying by other means..

If they are seeking to impress..because in each movie we get a variation.e.g

.xeno

.queen

.newborn

.deacon

.neomorph

How the hell they didnt think and presented us with the damm ultramorph already...fans would go nuts..its the best alien design and concept of them all..and it would make sense that prometheus unveil it to us..and it didnt ..they unveiled the descon baby form..and left it there to die...from hunger..not even a damm snack they left there. Just born and die already from a exceptional process of birth that wont be replicated in the next millennium to the damm grave. Oh yea me and david are out of here bye bye. 

Please get back at lv223...or go to hell ridley. 

I allways learned during my life...post credit scenes are a sequel teaser , they teased a condemned soul..like..hey its a deacon hes gonna die from starvation..we made this unique birth process during prometheus acrs..just to kill it in 10 sec credit scene =D 

Come on....make a damm ultramorph already..unless you saving it under the sleeve for whatever comes next of ac.

Altho theey had the ultramorph design on that device tablet who closes scenes...so maybe its a hint this xeno is the ultramoprh..why would they put a ultramorlh on that scene board.plus the hands are more ultra then xeno looking.

Fingers crossed fellas.

Maybe they are holding other stuff for the movie after AC?

The Ultamorph had many variants like the Deacon as far as Concept work goes..  one design was based on HR Gigers Necronom 4 which the Prometheus concept had TWO alternative versions...  main changes are the eyes/face.

The Ultra-morph was just the Term for a Chest Buster from the Engineer and being Ultra to mean ultimate as far as growing into something a bit bigger and badder...

So i think it was like a Human would Birth a Xenomorph and Engineer would birth this beast

I would have loved to had seen this.

The AC production department did have clapper boards that featured Necronom 4 and also lots clothing that had the 1979 Alien.... which is funny as over a year prior i had put information passed on by a source about TWO Monsters in Prometheus 2... one would be close to the Necronom 4 and unused Ultramorph and the other a fresh re-design on the Original Alien design.

We've still got two movies to go after AC. In my opinion,

the Ultramorph cometh.....

I'm reconsidering some things now. Shaw still doesn't know David fed Holloway black goo. So maybe during the trip after she reattaches his body, he gives her a little taste as well (so that he can get her out of the way and move forward to his destination. After all, what use does he have for her beyond reattaching his head?)

So Shaw dies (like Holloway) on the ship before they reach the planet (boooooring) and David crashes on his own. If there are engineers on the planet, it wouldn't be too hard for him to sneak around, snatch some black goo or perhaps a facehugger and begin wiping them out quietly. After all, he can safely handle black goo and facehuggers. He really wouldn't have to try that hard to start taking out engineers. Especially if he already got the only threat to his plan (Shaw) out of the way when en route.

Not the narrative I'm hoping for but certainly possible

Bigdave

Thats exactly the ultramorph i was mentioning. Necronom 4 is absolutly the best xeno design..its the ultimate beast.

And ye clapper boards! I mean that was a teaser i think...easter egg style.

Maybe the xeno we think its normal..its a ultramorph or heavly inspired in one..anyways i hope they bring that creature to the screen after ac if isnt present here,as long as they bring it..

I think the most logical thing to do with Shaw in Alien: Covenant  is to use her for one of David's most important experiments, like turning her into a creature or something that makes eggs.

The eggs in the cargo hold of the juggernaut on LV-426 are about 2000 years old, so the engineers must have engineered them. Therefore, they can't come from Shaw. I guess they will find the eggs in or near the temple ruin on Paradise (and the engineers wiped out).

I always suspected Shaw had another trilobite growing inside her. Perhaps it just took a little longer for Holloways mutant sperm to find another egg. The way she kept doubling over in pain every few minutes on her way to meet&greet the engineer reminds me of labor pains. Granted she just had a c-sec performed but sudden sharp crippling pains like that make me think a new baby is on the way. Hope David got her into cryostasis on time.