James Cameron's Aliens was a mistake.

@dk   I've never seen Crapatar either, sorry Avatar.

How about the special edition S.M.

Add about 6-7 minutes or so to the timings.

Thanks everyone for the greetings. As for Aliens i liked the movie just not the design of the queen and warriors. Maybe if the queen looked like the first alien in some aspects i would of liked it more.

The warriors felt wrong some how , when I was growing up it bugged me.

 That's fine BULL ALIEN.All opinions are welcome here.I appreciate that you've put this one out here.I also like your specific criticisms.I hope you enjoy it here.

Apart from the head, the Aliens are almost identical to the original (minus some detailing that isn't visible in the film). Obviously they move differently, but the actual design is very close to Gigers.

I think waiting that long to hear or see gun fire gives even more credit to the story, acting and character development.

Apart from Ripley, there isn't any real character development (maybe Gorman a bit).  Cameron, however, did a great job of creating likeable stereotypes, and we spent long enough with them to feel the loss when they die halfway through the film.  All the marines except Crowe and Wierzbowski get enough screen time to stand out, so we miss them when they're gone (this is something Alien 3 generally failed at).

The key to the first half of the film is gradually stringing us along by dialling up the tension.  We're wondering what's around the next corner just like the characters are, wondering what that tracker signal is, asking questions about where all the colonists are.

Alien 3 again failed at this by having Ripley behind the audience, and AvP tried to copy it, but kept cutting away to the Aliens and Predators telegraphing what's coming too much.

Cameron also gave us the hive battle as an appetiser then topped it in spades with the last 40 minutes of the film.  Anderson gave a bunch of boring characters, failed at creating tension, gave us a pretty decent fight, then people running away, and a fight with the Queen that didn't top the first fight.

@ S.M Let me start by saying I like the way you disagree with me, honestly. I look forward to clashing on views and opinions as long as we are able to with good health and good movies to see. I say that without sarcasm or disrespect :]

"The only way it would have worked would be to essentially re-make it" What I mean is literally remake it. One Alien, a crew landing on a planetoid due to the derelict and its beacon/warning. And right on down the line, a remake.

Aliens was the polar opposite of the original, start to finish. The enemy was known to the viewers, the mission was clear to the characters, and the horror-suspense from the first film was replaced with action-suspense in the sequel.

Re: "And Dan O'Bannon and Ron Shusett"

I don't think they were part of the process of creating the Alien or the Derelict ship. Im pretty sure that was all Giger. I think O'Bannon and Shusett were involved in the story and screenplay if im not mistaken, the two of them were responsible for getting the film made, on the production and script approval yes? HR Gigers works are what made Alien "Alien". I recall Scott remarking that everything in the film related to the Alien was Gigers responsibility, More over it was Shusett seeing Gigers works that I would suggest planted the seed [no pun intended] for the groundbreaking method of the alien getting on board. Giger's work was machines basically having S&M fun using VERY identifiable parts of the human reproductive processes. Giger's art influenced them that much. For me its clear as day. I'll give them the same credit as Scott for making a great film, but no other visual style regarding the alien aspects of the movie had me imagining so deeply about a creature. I never stayed up late thinking about where Chewbacca or Yoda came from.

Re: the Necronomicon IV. It is the exact creature from Alien, minus the tail shaped like a tally-whacker, and with the addition of the visor/dome plate. You can debate to what extent they differ, but such difference is splitting hairs and Scotts influence on Giger was in fact just Giger altering designs based on Ridley Scott suggesting the tail may be too much, and not liking the resemblance to humans the eyes gave the creature. Im pretty sure Giger based on that input offered the eyes being covered.

Re: the insect influence is dismantled by both Shusett and Obannon in the making of Alien documentary in that regard. They both state that Gigers work was at the core. The notion of insect reproduction [wasp and spider] is just an example of something in nature that was reflective of the way Gigers work would have to be interpreted on screen. Because the phallic and sexual nature of the art itself is how the 3 stages of the xenomorph came to be. "It screws on of the crew members" -Ron Shusett. As this wouldn't be literal for countless reasons, it was a male crew member of the Nostromo who got the luck of becoming pregnant, and as men have no womb etc etc, it was the chest. The insect world is an example of how a wasp can effectively turn a spider into Kane at the dinner table more or less. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYJXaEN8F4Q&t=3256s     

"The enemy was known to the viewers, the mission was clear to the characters, and the horror-suspense from the first film was replaced with action-suspense in the sequel. "

The suspense was born out of the characters not having a clear mission.

"I don't think they were part of the process of creating the Alien or the Derelict ship."

Giger designed what the Alien and Derelict looked like. O'Bannon and Shusett created the actual Alien and Derelict. O'Bannon brought Giger to Ridley's attention.

Much of the film was collaborative.  O'Bannon and Shusett with the original script. Giler and Hill modifying it. Ridley's input.  Giger, Roger Christian, Les Dilley.  From memory Ron Cobb came up with the acid blood idea (as well as the name 'Weylan Yutani'). The final design of the facehugger and chestburster was down to Roger Dicken.

It's not all down to Giger. 

I agree with dk.Aliens is the only movie to rival Alien in terms of pacing and tension.While it is action heavy i don't really view it as an action film.I view it as a great sci fi horror film with action segments.It still has excellent atmosphere,well written characters(character development or not)and builds wonderfully on Scott's vision.After all besides Alien of course,Aliens is the only other film he cares about.That's got to mean something.Alien Covenant,as well as Prometheus both give Aliens there fair share of nods.Covenant even appears to have Colonial Marines in it.

It's also worth noting James Cameron didn't want replicate Alien or even take baby steps from it.Instead he took a major leap and gave us a pretty grand vision.

Aliens is my favorite Alien movie, so I wouldn't say it was a mistake.

While Alien is more of a suspense/horror film, Aliens is more of a thriller with horror undertones. I mean, that first scene where they're getting their buts handed to them is pretty intense and scary 

yea Cameron def did the xeno justice with the first scene. dark and enclosed space and the way he shows the cocoons and the xeno blending into the structure is awesome. im not afraid to say I absolutely dropped one when that colonist opened her eyes.

Cameron also did the amazing and difficult task of making the xeno cannon fodder (although it does make sense considering the Colonial Marines heavy arms) while still preserving their terrifying appeal and overwhelming strength (metal door ramming) and speed. That's incredible in my book.

yea the xeno got its a$$ kicked but they kept coming where as the marines pulled back. its what it must be like for a grasshopper looking at an unstoppable army of ants coming to rip it to pieces. aliens imo is truly the greatest action movie. Cameron took the right path with the movie, the logical step in the progression of the series. slight changes in alien design and the design of the queen r just a personal view point.

This is what family, friends, former colleagues etc say to me...

"Noticed A L I E N was on and thought of you!"

Peeps, I am defined by my love for an old Sci-fi film! XD 

alien will stand the test of time and still be scaring people in another 30 years.

Too true ali...too true, lets hope AC does the same!

I have high hopes for AC. I love Prometheus as I see it for what it is, a stand alone, start up movie but I feel AC is gna be a classic alien movie with different creatures, cant wait

@FireStream

It's rude to call someone's opinion "stupid". The OP, and MANY of us Alien fans, simply think Aliens was a bad take on a sequel. That's not stupid, that's quite the contrary. Perhaps you AND DR. SWOJD should take it elsewhere...

I think it will be very difficult to recreate the same magic Alien had when it was released.

We no longer have the element of surprise with the eggs - facehuggers - Xenos, androids that can't be trusted and not to mention all the gore we've been spoiled with throughout the franchise, (and also in general for the last 30 years) these are some of the blueprints of the Alien themes and aspects that we're already familiar with.

I think Alien Covenant needs to be different to say the least, with a fantastic story and cast to stand the same test of time Alien has endured, because that masterpiece was before its time and arguably the film that, if not established the "sci-fi horror" genre, surely raised it to huge popularity. 

And with that said, I honestly don't think it's possible. Not to be cynical or anything but realistically speaking we've seen so much with so many different films through so many years.

On the other hand and in theory, an Alien Covenant going the "easy route" with all the "clichés" from the previous films, doesn't mean that it won't be memorable, fantastic or even a masterpiece that most people regard as their favourite in the series. Or it could be something completely different we never could expect, I really hope this happens. 

@ Lone  That's cool and sweet!

Yeah I have a feeling Alien: Covenant is gonna be right up there with Alien and Aliens when it's all said and done!

Cant beat a bit of optimism ;)

I hope so... i dont think its going to be bad though, i think maybe we could look at it as on par with Alien 3?  But hey ive its better that is a bonus for us all.

Its a tricky one as do they try to please Alieny fans who was disappointed with Prometheus and those who felt Spaights draft was what was needed minus religious and god/creator connections.  Or do they please Fans who liked those aspects of Spaights draft and Lindeloffs and who wanted something different.

Will this movie please the Alien fans a bit more, but still maybe not be the movie they wanted.. still not Spaights or Aliens enough at the risk of also completely tone down the other aspect i.e Engineers etc.

If they get the balance right, they could be onto a winner,  get it a bit wrong and it could be a Hit with Aliens fans, but Cop Out/Miss for other fans i.e Prometheus.

Or worst case scenario... disappoint both..

I think its best to have a bit of Faith and know that there is a long term Aim/Plan... that will please both sets of fans and so the sequels will no doubt draw upon this plan and also address any critic from both sets of fans..

Never fear Starlogger Dr whatever has been given the boot.

So after watching the special edition of Aliens today it pointed out another thing that bugged me. With only a squad of Marines they do some bone head things. Speaking from my background of an Army Veteran also as a Infantrymen. Why did they send everyone into that plant with no idea what was going on?

Why not send in a scouting party first , say Hicks , Frost and Drake with the Medic? That way you can see something is very weird and get out before everyone gets killed or lose a person or two but not the whole squad.

Also why did they back themselves into a corner in that room when they could of taken the fight outside with all their weapons and wipe them out? There was only a set amount of aliens that got a hold of the people on the colony. Minus the ones some colonists killed. It would of been easier to take the high ground and wait for the next drop ship to come down.

The logic of movie making,your not the to call Camerons military expertise into question

I don't think that's the case. It was a rescue mission, like Predator, it was supposed to be a quick in and out.  According to the company dude at the beginning they still don't really think these things, Xenomorphs, exist or don't really know what they are capable of. And they didn't know there would be a whole planet of them. Missions go wrong in real life unfortunately, this is no different. And "the company" is always after what they've always been after, the perfect organism. They don't care how many people die to get this.

Alien and Aliens complimented each other. Aliens was also catharsis for what happened in Alien.

If Alien had remained a standalone, it may not be as cherished as it is today. Aliens greatly expanded the Alien universe and gave just enough to the character of the creature without killing the horror of it.

If a second film was done in the style of Alien, it would have been predictable and the tone would have been stale. I mentioned that Aliens was catharsis for Alien. This was actually conveyed in the original trailer for Aliens.

"Aliens...This time, it's war"

Not only do those words communicate the theme of a human army verses a xeno one, but it also resonates with the vengeance Ripley is given the chance to enjoy and share with the viewers who experienced her suffering in Alien.

A war movie was the inevitable next step. Whether or not Cameron gave the idea the ideal treatment is a matter of opinion, as others have stated. Ultimately however, the core plot points of Aliens truly did the franchise a service.

And these Colonial Marines are cocky, they think they can handle whatever comes at them. Plus Gorman doesn't really know what he's doing entirely, it was a mission that was bound not to succeed. Burke's got the whole evil corporation guy down pat. Fantastic movie!

BULL ALIEN

The guy who played Apone is a Vietnam Veteran and a former sergeant in real life, with several years of experience. 

I'm sure he gave Cameron and the rest of the actors some tactical advice.

Apart from that there was a script laid out for the actors to follow, and tbh I never had an issue with the Colonial Marines' tactics. If they aren't realistic in someone's eyes, they sure gave me an illusion of being realistic and that's what matters imo.

"So after watching the special edition of Aliens today it pointed out another thing that bugged me. With only a squad of Marines they do some bone head things. Speaking from my background of an Army Veteran also as a Infantrymen. Why did they send everyone into that plant with no idea what was going on?"

They didn't.  Gorman was directing things from the APC 3 levels away. He could see multiple angles from the marines cameras and had access to the motion tracker feeds and AP station blueprints.  At least that was the plan.  Cameron has said he depiction of the marines was more based on Vietnam-era draftee soldiers, than more disciplined marines.

"Also why did they back themselves into a corner in that room when they could of taken the fight outside with all their weapons and wipe them out? There was only a set amount of aliens that got a hold of the people on the colony. Minus the ones some colonists killed. It would of been easier to take the high ground and wait for the next drop ship to come down."

In operations you mean?  They had a limited supply of weapons and ammo.  Would've been pretty difficult to defend a position outside where the Aliens can come at you from any direction.  By barricading themselves inside the colony they could try and funnel the Aliens towards the sentry guns.  There wasn't really any "high ground" as such, and the option to bring down the second dropship only comes into play after they've sealed themselves in.

Yeah exactly, in other words they all know what they are doing but they were in over their heads. They didn't know that there would be a whole planet of Xeno's. That's pretty much all you really need to look at, just another mission gone wrong.

That's kinda the whole point of Ripley.  She's an outsider and no one believes her except Hicks (who of course, lives; as do her two biggest detractors Hudson and Vasquez, giving them a metaphorical slap in the face).  Ripley is allowed to evolve into the leader, when they realise she was right all along and how much their hubris has cost them.

@S.M   Exactly

The problem is Ripley had her accounts of what this thing could do put on disc for them all to read, on top of that they saw what happened to the people that made a stand in that hallway /room and it went south plus they also saw that these things do have acid for blood. It just struck me as funny. You can see the aliens went through the top of the barricade and came from below to get to the colonists.

Prior to them actually finding the colonists and ultimately coming under attack they were still full of bravado believing themselves to be the 'ultimate badasses'.

Which, again, was the point. Cameron was continuing the Vietnam allegory.

BULL ALIEN

It's also probable given the marines' attitude during the scene where Gorman suggested they read the file, that most of them didn't bother.