Thoughts on peoples complaints.

The movie had flaws... it has a lot of potential Plot Holes, but then these can open up debates... and so not all are Plot Holes... they are things that can be answered... or where there has to be a logical explanation.

Yes there are some silly things... but this is needed to get the Plot Going Forwards.....  If Daniels objected and they demanded a Mutiny against Oram and then went to Origae-6 instead we would have had no movie...

The Planet was inhabitable...  so there is a good reason they never had Space Suits, but ideally they would still take them as you dont know what other Airborne Pathogens etc are there.. so this is the same as Holloway taking his Helmet off.... again we can only assume they had sensors that detected no harmful environmental factors.

Again Space Suits = No Neomorph infection, so it was needed.. a more silly point is how Daniels and Co are not so Cautious having seen TWO Crew infected... (saw one, knew of another) and then they saw those Dead Bodies without ever asking about them.

Logically you would be thinking.... Hang On, Infected Crew by some unknown Parasite, Dead Humanoids... Hang on.... so thats why there was no Birds... Nothing.

Then at this point they was stranded, and David offered them a way out... the other Alternative Scene.... (Screeners) David said "come with me if you want to survive"

I think it was bad writing how they did not have Daniels Question David about those bodies...  but alas...

And they could not really had fitted more into the movie due to the 2 hour restraints FOX had set... so there was more scenes shot that had to be cut and edited like Prometheus was too.

BigDave And what about Weyland Yutani?. Aren't they paying for the expedition? Oram can change plans just like that, without asking the company, which must have plans to exploit the natural resources of the already studied Origae 6. And what about not seizing David as Company's property?. Isn't Weyland-Yutani already bankrupt with so much nonsense going on?

Super Fast Xenomorph Gestation/Growth...

We need to remember.. a complaint with Prometheus was take away the Prologues (Sacrifice, Holloway/Shaw Cave Painting) the time we saw the Prometheus ship to everyone waking up and then suiting up to go to the Temple... happened a bit fast, and it never gave time to get to know the Characters well.

So in AC they spent time making a Slow Burn 1st act, that lead to when they departed to the surface in the Lander.. and even further right down with the Neomorphs..

At this point it was Slow Build Up to maybe improve Characters... Check... Introduce New Alien via Spore Infection... Check..

Then it was on to bringing in the Xenomorph, but they also had to cover Prometheus parts a bit too..... then Baring in mind they had a Ending Set up....

There simply would have not been enough time to have fitted in TWO Normal Xenomorph Cycles.... as then do we just have them sit by the Fire, then wonder where Oram got too... how do they explain what the rest would do for hours while Oram was missing?

And so they had to speed up the Xenomorph Gestation and Growth rate which was stupid... but it was needed.... it appears Davids experiment was a Evolution of the Xenomorph, as it grew fast just like the Hammerpede Infections and also Neomorphs.

Ideally they should have stuck with 1X Xenomorph and came across Orams Body with no Face Hugger (or David removes it) and says Oram fell over... or something... so they would take him back to the Ship.... then allow a normal Gestation Rate...

But this would raise problems with Quarantine Protocols after seeing what happened to Ledwood and Hallet...   Then again why was Lope not given the same... he was taken to a Med-Bay and never given any screening after being attacked by a Alien Parasitic Face Hugger.... surely they would want to have him scanned...   But doing this would have detected a Xenomorph and then well... what do they do then... torch him?  even if they locked the Room... it would effected the other scenes (Shower Scene) because everyone would have known about the Organism on board.

The only way would have been to have Walter go and check on him, and report back... Lope is ok, X-ray shows no infections... he will be Quarantined to Med-Bay where i will observe him.

This however would reveal to the viewers... that Walter is David way earlier on... and once the Xenomorph goes on the lose.. some would then complain about why Daniels etc... would trust Walter because he said there was no infection.

So you see the tricky task they had at hand....

BigDave

"Then again why was Lope not given the same... he was taken to a Med-Bay and never given any screening after being attacked by a Alien Parasitic Face Hugger.... surely they would want to have him scanned...   But doing this would have detected a Xenomorph and then well... what do they do then... torch him?  even if they locked the Room... it would effected the other scenes (Shower Scene) because everyone would have known about the Organism on board."

The way I handled it in my short story is in a manner that would work quite well in an infirmary as well. ;)

The below takes place in an airlock.

" It raised itself up, it’s body now fully visible, no sign of any apprehension or fear on it’s part. It’s small jaws closed, but even then it’s small, sharp greyish crystalline-metal teeth could be seen. No eyes nor ears could be seen, there was nothing but the small, toothed mouth. An oddly corrugated artery could be seen pulsing visibly close by and upwardly-behind it’s jaw.
It raised fully up, like a cobra she’d seen in a vid once, seemed to be surveying the room. She felt a distinct impression it could see, or rather sense them all perfectly.
The tiny maw opened, and it emitted an odd sound, a raggedly mewling rasped-hiss before it tore the rest of it’s snakelike length from the man’s body and with the speed of a striking snake vanished in a single wriggling motion that propelled it under a bench seat that was part of the wall. There was the sudden sound of thin metal being torn rapidly, then nothing.
It wasn’t until some hours later that things had taken a much graver and terrifying turn for the worse. "

There's air vents with thin pressed-metal grilles even in airlocks, right? Medbays also. ;)
Quatantine doesn't mean a whole lot to something that can get into an air vent and tear through the air-seal blocker-plate.

Exactly....

They would think they have done enough to keep it in, but it would find a way to escape...  I have been pondering how i could improve AC...

I would not touch anything until after David takes them to his hide away..

But the Xenomorph is hard to cover.... within constraints of the running time.. As i mentioned prior, you can come up with one idea.. that would be better but then would raise some flaws, which you try and come up with a good suggestion.. and then you find another flaw...

You could have had both David and Walter make it to the ship... and on good terms... but then we would have to erase the scenes when Walter found Davids experiments and Daniels also finding some of his handy work..

I think ideally they should have had...  Oram kill the Neomorph... and then get Face Hugged... but have David cover it up someway... by saying the Neomorph came in and attacked... but dont worry i took it out... and show the body...

But then have him hide Orams, and say that he died and he has to quickly take them to another place as its not safe...   But then how would the remaining Crew react... would they want to wonder outside? It would be better if David then explains the Organism and say there are only TWO as it needed a Host... if we can trap the other and kill it you would be safe.

Then having them bate and kill the other Neomorph, but then have the crew well Cole, discover Oram as he gets Chest Busted and have him kill the Chest Buster....   then have David kill Cole, just as Lope sees and then he gets Face Hugged quickly..

This would allow for ONE Adult Xeno... Lope has it on the ship..  hours latter.

This would give a bit more time between Oram Face Hugged and Chest Buster... and killed the Chest Buster... which means we dont need the super quick growth of screen to Adult.

Then we would still have that problem with Lopes...unless Walter informs Daniels as her and Tennessee together that Lope is Fine...   When unknown to us David knows what will happen but he can pass it off as he seemed ok.. no signs of previous infection as he has been in Quarantine for hours with no symptoms..

When she hears MUTHUR say Life-form detected... they may just think Walter was mistaken.. and not 100% detect any Malice... but the viewer would then be suspicious and some would by then get that Walter was David prior to the Actual Reveal..

But we all saw this a Mile off anyway ;)

Just have to hope the next movie is better written... or Ultimately Accept that Davids Experiments have a Vastly Faster Rate of Growth etc..

This wont even contradict Alien much, as they can have a explanation... for reasons for the slower Growth.. especially if Ridley Scott... Ret-cons Aliens and so we get Alien and then a new set of RS Sequels that keep to the new faster growth rate.

BigDave

Lemme give it some thought :D

I find a lot of the criticisms about this one and Prometheus to be incredibly dumb.  Most of the people complaining want to bring science into the discussion.  It's a sci-fi movie.  I think we have to suspend a certain level of realism as it relates to such movies.  My best example is the argument is the complaint that Lope (head of security detail) took acid in the face and it didn't eat through him like it did through the various levels on Nostromo (Alien 1979).  How many people (I have never heard a single complaint) bitched about Cpl. Hicks when he was hit in the face with acid?  :-/

If you look hard enough you can find flaws in all good movies.  

@Colonial 

In relation to that article you posted….

1. Are the Engineers really dead?   I don't think that they are Engineers.
2. Why is David creating the Xenomorphs? He hates us, plans to use the weapon on humanity 
3. What about the Alien Queen? Who's to say that David doesn't create one from the Covenant crew in order to mass produce the eggs?
4. What about the Eggs on LV426? we are going to find that out in the next film.
5. Whos the Space Jockey on LV426? see above.
6. Why doesn't the Xenomorph look like the original? Might just be a first step in its design.

This is what I mean, these are not good enough to hate the film.

@Phallic Jaw

Is there a thread where you detail the problems you have with the film? I keep seeing people say that the film did silly things but they don't say what they are.

@Big Dave

Again Space Suits = No Neomorph infection, so it was needed.. a more silly point is how Daniels and Co are not so Cautious having seen TWO Crew infected... (saw one, knew of another) and then they saw those Dead Bodies without ever asking about them.

Logically you would be thinking.... Hang On, Infected Crew by some unknown Parasite, Dead Humanoids... Hang on.... so thats why there was no Birds... Nothing.

Then at this point they was stranded, and David offered them a way out... the other Alternative Scene.... (Screeners) David said "come with me if you want to survive”

They didn't see the dead humanoids until David showed up and led them to his place. I get what you are saying but they were just attacked by two creatures so to have them question that at that point wouldn't make sense for me. They asked at the right time, when they thought they were safe with David. For me it was a case of, lets get out of here and then work out what happened.

Some of them are Prometheus fanboys who are mad.

When the Alien fanboys complained, they got their movie:  Alien-Covenant.  My problem is this, if you make 'The Empire Strikes Back', do you then follow it with 'The Force Awakens'?

Yes Brett, things such as the FULL GROWN chestburster standing up and putting its arms up and The flute scene.  Extremely SILLY and neither of these things would have appeared in the original Alien.  Dumb, just dumb.

@colonialsoldier 

You were hoping for a "Rouge One "caliber type of storytelling"? Are you kidding me?! I mean really??

That movie was awful Storywise; had terrible one dimensional, unlikable characters, dull dialouge, an extremely bad structure and pacing, and generally no emotion or "soul" in it. The whole film was pretty boring, especially the third act. Felt like just watching random cgi porn filled action with no emotion in it. Apart from the special effects and the last scene with Vader, its a painfully below average and forgettable movie. I was so dissapointed after watching it at the big screen i couldnt believe my eyes.

@Phallic 

In terms of the Chestburster being fully grown.

The only thing I can say to that is, all three of the creatures (Deacon, Neomorph and the debatable xenomorpth) have all been fully grown. They just haven't been their full size during the chest bursting. It is possible that the Alien in the first film is slightly different from the one in Alien Covenant.

Putting its arms up.

We should wait until the next film comes out before we make a judgement. It seems thats the film is indicating that David has some sort of control over these creatures. Walter was attacked and David wasn’t. Remember the Neomorpth didn't attack David and the “Xenomorpth” mimicked him, theres something to that. I think there is something more to come of this. Until i know more about it, I wont be calling it silly.

The Flute scene.

Is this a case of David saying that he would do the fingering? If it is, thats a problem on your part. The term fingering is used when speaking about playing the flute, hell its used for other instruments. Heres two images to prove that. 

 I hope it isn't a case of you being childish.

If it isn’t, then what is silly about that part in the film?

Hmm I gotta be careful of spoilers I've not seen it yet... after Prometheus I'm finding it hard to muster the energy to go :s .

But let's take one of your points: why no helmets / protective gear. You say they scanned the planet and found it safe?! But they missed the thousands of bodies clearly killed by some kind of lethal substance not to mention the black goo infected stuff all over the place and eggs etc. etc.? Not to mention many other possibilities of disastrous consequences.  The biggest being them contaminating the planet not the other way round (viruses bacteria clothing fibre body cells the list is almost infinite)! Even sending Walter or some kind of sterile drone down first would be what would happen anyway. Anyone with half a brain knows this stuff an example would be an incident were the simple cold virus devastated an Eskimo community and that was on earth!  Imagine the differences between that planet and ours even if it had similar environments (in fact similar environments means easier contamination).

Ps. Anyway love farther Ted :D !

Biggest issue for me is that the creature mythos is no longer mysterious. Minimalism is was what made the original film so good. It set up every reveal moment to shock the audience.

This film seemed rushed, contrived and merely going through the motions. Seeing through the creatures eyes kinda kills more of the mystery as well as it originally seemed the creature had no eyes, relied on other senses like a bat.

This film was about David not the Alien and could be more associated to the Bladerunner franchise than Alien.

Needless to say, I will buy the Bluray or extended version and probably watch it 50 times or more. :)

Lol @Brett now you are just making excuses.  Sorry. Personally I don't give a rat's @ss if Div'Ed somehow has control over the beasts, it's a stupid plot idea.  I preferred them when they were like normal Aliens.  Having them controllable makes them less scary, which they totally were in the movie and the movie itself wasn't scary either.

regarding the flute.  You are not wrong but it seems that you are in the minority.  Audience members and critics alike have all found that line and scene laughable.  Sorry but it is too easy to write everybody off as children or immature that you just happen to disagree with.  If you can't see what everybody else is seeing in that scene, then maybe the problem is with you.  Regardless, it was just a crap, weird scene, and doesn't belong in a so-called Alien movie.  More so in a Blade Runner movie.

Hello everyone,

I saw Alien-Covenant last night & was very pleased with it.  It just seemed like everything was dark & hard to easily see?  I saw it as the movie that had to happen.  I really liked Walter & do not think we have heard the last from him!

*If you have not seen it, you must!*

Cheers!

@Phallic

Hardly excuses. All I said was I'm waiting until I know more before I pass judgement and gave some suggestions as to why we should wait.

I’ll be honest in the three times I went to see it some people did laugh, although they were all teenagers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go because you laughed at that, I just don't think its enough for you to say its bad because of it. One line in a scene that was actually good and interesting. 

What I will say though, fair play to you for being honest. 

@djamelameziane

Father Ted is a great laugh, always thought Tom was very funny in it so thats why I used his image.

Anyway

The point i was making is that the ship they are on is built for colonising planets, we have to accept that they have technology for determining if planets are save or not to land on. Its at the start so its not really a spoiler, they intercept a message from the planet, not of someone in distress or an SOS but of someone singing so we have to assume that they believe that person to be alive and living there.

I do get what you are saying about how did they miss all the bodies.

In terms of the Black Goo, it wasn't airborne so no need for the helmets. Im still arguing that they didn't need the helmets because they determined that the planet itself was, in their view, safe to land on. 

@Thelonius X

Fair Play you you, cant really argue with you on those points. I agree with you on some of them.

Again, I'm not saying that this film is a masterpiece, far from it. All I'm saying is that some of the reasons for saying its a bad film are weak.

Honestly, the beast isn't scary anymore. To bring back fear into people about Alien you have to get disturbing with it. Almost sadistic, HR Giger sadistic disturbing. Have the alien shove it's tail up the girls vag in the shower scene, or up an a**, or through an eye/ear. Make us uncomfortable with all the ways the monster can harm us and maybe for curiosity, it chooses to kill us in those ways. A sadistic, violent monster. That's what the alien has to be to return to horror glory. Giger would love this idea!

Adding some sexuality to the xeno would add depth to the monster in ways you cant even begin to imagine. It's literally what it was originally from Giger. Explore that concept and put it on screen. Boom, the beast is fresh and uncooked. How many times do we have to see the monster jump on someone, inner jaw them, scratch them, yet barely see any of it and think its gunna be scary. They need us to feel and see what this monster does to us. Let those shots linger and seep into our souls, forever making the Alien the scariest monster to encounter.

 They must be pretty bad at determining if a planet is safe to land on then :O . 

The first thing that pops into my head is a ship that's built for colonizing planets hmm what abilities would it need.  Well the first thing that would be on the list i reckon is the ability to scan an entire planet in very high detail! To determine suitability for colonization and spot dangers and resources no? It would then have many probes or drones for up close searches and testing etc...etc... Also protective environment suits ready for any environment...

When I read many of the fans making comments; it seems like you are conjuring up many things that were not even in the minds of the screenwriters and making all these kooky assumptions like Star Trek fanboys lol.

People, it is this simple...A good screenplay, continuity, common sense logic are the ingredients of a good movie and classic.  

I saw more horror in Aliens and Alien3.  Ridley tried the back and face bursting to try to show us different shocks but the CGI after it ruined it.  When I look at the practical effects in Aliens and watching them hop around like grasshoppers and locusts (e.g. when Ripley and Newt come across the egg nest and the elevator attack on Ripley and Newt); that is some damn quality made decades ago.

And the obvious fact is; they could have done that today.  Yes, CGI gives more freedom to create things but it was done poorly.  Look how Ripley was all alone and got the rifle and flamethrower together when she went into the elevator.  That scene alone was great filmmaking and does not compare to Covenant.  When Tennessee hands the weapon to that woman; it seem so rush; no terror or dread whatsoever.  I was just shaking my head on what I was watching and so shocked that whoever locked in the final edit of this film; approved of it.  I would have kept the original opening date.

 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/21/movies/alien-covenant-is-a-ho-hum-no-1-at-the-box-office.html?_r=0

"LOS ANGELES — Meh. The eighth chapter in 20th Century Fox’s “Alien” series arrived to an estimated $36 million in ticket sales in North America — far from a flop, far from a sizzling hit. “Alien: Covenant,” as the latest film is titled, cost roughly $100 million to make, and has taken in an additional $30.3 million overseas.

Unless strong word-of-mouth propels “Alien: Covenant” to big ticket sales in the weeks to come, the film may become the latest example of audience pushback on long-in-the-tooth film franchises.

The domestic opening total was the third highest for the “Alien” series, which first thrilled moviegoers in 1979 with its surrealist central creature and sense of escalating dread. “Prometheus,” a 2012 prequel, arrived to $55.1 million, after adjusting for inflation. “Alien vs. Predator” had $50.6 million in 2004.

The R-rated “Alien: Covenant,” directed by Ridley Scott, who also directed the first “Alien” and “Prometheus,” received mostly positive reviews. Ticket buyers gave it a B grade in CinemaScore exit polls."

@Jimbo

Kinky.

I agree though, it isn't really scary anymore. 

@djamelameziane

Are they bad though? the planet was safe but for the Black goo pods with you would expect the ship wouldn't be able to detect. It would make less sense if the ship was able to detect those pods. We don't know what that stuff is, to suggest that the ship would detect would suggest that we as humans know about it.

@Colonial

I agree with the better screenplay and CGI aspect.  I am a massive fan of practical effects, I would agree with you on this big time.

it seems like you are conjuring up many things that were not even in the minds of the screenwriters and making all these kooky assumptions like Star Trek fanboys lol.

What kooky assumption have I made?

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a55195/alien-covenant-reviews/

Interesting comments from critics

Lets be honest the issues with A:C is all in production and some hammy dialog. Action is not Ridleys strong point ie. the scene on board he Covenant and the Xeno. but he is great at suspense and horror. i.e. the scenes on the drop ship with the first Neomorph burster.

The Ideas presented and the characters are all good. Yes Ridley is bowing to the studios, but he is telling a good story and not one that he meant to tell either FYI.  David as the creator is not the way it was meant to go as the original Prometheus was full of Aliens long before David had chance to create them. 

Action is not Ripley's strong point???  He did great with action at the end in Alien and Blade Runner.  And Black Hawk Down is one of my best war movies.

Im Durp

Funny how the tone of this forum changed from 2 weeks ago where people were lauding this movie as the second coming before seeing it.

The tone has changed and it was predicted a while ago and confirmed by a staff member. That person also predicted the dust to settle after a couple weeks.

I talked to someone at work who is a huge Alien fan and avoided trailers and spoilers. He absolutely loved the movie and articulated very well why he liked it without spoiling anything since he knows I haven't seen it.