Let's talk about stupid: let's talk about Dallas...

I completely disagree with the notion that Dallas was stupid. Of course he is not perfect for he is human, but he shows strong leadership traits and proves to be brave. The most questionable action he made in the movie was to allow Ash to keep the specimen, but I think this has to do with the way he was trained and pressure from the Company. When he broke the protocol it was a calculated decision; practically half of the crew were outside, and at that point he just didn't have enough information about the creature. But then again like people commented above, there would be no story if they left Kane to die outside. The movie that perpetuated the cliche of the dumb crew is Prometheus and Covenant followed in its steps unfortunately.

I liked Dallas- he was the captain of a hauling ship. A CPT is a CPT- the basic duty is to complete the mission and ensure the safety of the crew and ship. Well, he did that as best he could given the circumstances and gave his life when he could have delegated the xeno search to someone else. It also goes to show that he and the crew didn't closely read their contracts or never imagined those clauses would come into effect.

Yes I'm seeing a mistake here and I've seen it a lot on here since Prometheus came out. Ok i guess not strictly a mistake as its up to the viewer  how they interpret things even if it is weird and illogical!

But alien was a 'hard' sci fi film as its not very commonly known : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science_fiction the most real sci fi film involving fantastical ideas I've seen. And that's why it's so mind blowing. Its the hardest type of sci fi to make because people will and can pick it apart because we all live in the supposed same reality as the film...maybe apart from a few ehem :) . 

Softer sci fi or more fantasy based sci fi is based in a made up reality separate from our universe as such dune is one such example. And obviously it's much harder to criticise because we don't live in that reality they also usually focus on humanity not scientific accuracy. But obviously it has to have some basis in it reality or we just wouldn't understand it! And yes lines gets blurred some are bits of both in the middle etc.. but alien was hard. And I'm starting to think recently Ridley thought it was soft :s . As the new ones seem soft. 

Anyway this it's the first problem are you viewing it as hard or soft... this then moves on to the next mistake... hard sci fi is real as real as possible and yes people make mistakes in real life Kane made a mistake according to protocol but in that moment he decided because of the crazy situation to break the rules.  You can even see him thinking i shouldn't do this. So it felt real. And there were very few illogical decisions and out happenings in alien. Now Prometheus just felt very odd like it was trying to be hard sci fi or was it? The main difference being the sheer amount of illogical stupid or just damn right gaping plot holes. Yes some of them were rectified a bit if you knew about the spaights script before the final script. But why should you have to know about a previous script to make a film slightly more logical :O that in itself is illogical.  And anyway even with that knowledge there are many many more problems...

Oh and aorta : every acid has something that won't react to it ...hydrofluric acid is one of the worst and has to be kept in plastic containers as it melts through glass metal and many other things. I seem to also remember something about the acid neutralizing after death on facehuggers though i forget were that was... maybe not in alien. 

Anyway much more but i need to do something now :S ... oh and i probably should say AC seems more together less of the stupidity plot holes and mistakes but only really the first half... It then seems to follow Prometheus down the wtf route...

Outside of plot devices and such to propel a story forward a good friend of mine is a scientist. He actually is on the front lines of climate change research and teaches at a local University. I ran some of the ideas by him about 'how scientists are smart' and would not make stupid, often fatal mistakes, especially in sci-fi films. He laughed pretty hard and said: "Yeah, its like we are the new priests or something and we never make errors in life. If people actually believe that a scientists 'smarts' in their research translates to making good decisions in life then they have either never met any scientists, live in the same fantasy land the sci-fi films they watch are based or just plain fail to understand human nature."

That was harsh LOL!

He added to that he and others have to go through an enormous amount of survival training when they first land in Antarctica with refreshers on follow up visits. "You would be surprised at the mistakes people make, experienced people, in that environment."

BZ

@colonialsoldier, I am old enough to have seen "Alien" in the movie theater in 1979, and it is still my favorite movie in the whole series :)

@Blackwinter-witch, yep, you hardly have a story without someone doing something stupid. On the other hand, as you also mentioned, there is a limit for stupidity to be applied.

@QueenElizabethShaw, what a look! Terrific :)

@djamelameziane, I wouldn't say "Alien" is hardcore Sci-Fi, I mean, not when compared to "2001", "Interestellar" or "The Martian". I mean, the scientific approach is not strictly applied, as to generating a gravitational field on the spaceship or the, for now, impossible distances to consider in a lifetime. But, yes, it was meant to be serious Sci-Fi, and people make mistakes all the time and those become even more tragic in space when confronting an alien organism.

I love Dallas, please don't get me wrong. The whole Nostromo crew, by the way. My point is that, when you pay close attention to all Alien movies, stupidity is the order of the day. You can consider those stupid decisions excusable or not, but they are there in plain sight. Maybe Ripley became everyone's favorite because she kept her mind sharp at all times. And I think Shaw did the same in her own way.

Now, if you think about Kane's attitude when he saw that the thing in the egg was alive, would you have done the same he did? Not only he didn't run as fast as he could as he also tried to touch that thing without knowing what it was! - Millburn and Fifield just followed tradition :)

Then, Dallas forgetting the most basic quarantine procedures and so on so forth.

Now you think about "Aliens", the "Marines" who should have known better and all the whole mindset that led them to end up trapped in Sub-Level 3. Once again, it was Ripley who told Gorman to have his guys out of there - and, of course, he didn't when they still had time.

In "Alien 3", as colonialsoldier pointed out, as a group they had more chances to defeat the creature, but no! Let's play cat and mouse with it :)

I don't quite remember many details in "Resurrection", but I wouldn't bring back such a dangerous organism. Then again, we have real scientists in real life messing around with what could kill everybody, viruses and the sort, so why not playing that dumb in a movie?

@Bubba Zanetti, thanks for bringing that up. Scientists, just like the rest of us, are far from being the "perfect organism" :)

@ colonialsoldier Just curious regarding your comment about the action in Alien being better than that of Covenant.  Sure it's dramatic but the effects in that scene are lazy as hell.  The Alien is literally stiff as a board when being launched out of the the escape ship  You think that holds up well today?  I think it was poor in 1979 let alone 2017.  

2001 etc.  Seem harder because they are not set as far in the future in fact 2001 is now past :) . And so they use perry much what was on the horizon at the time. 

And again I'm not saying realism is no mistakes but is not tons of mistakes either when you have scientists doing things a 6 year old wouldnt it's bit different to a lower iq leveled space trucker being a bit stupid. 

Prometheus is probably a 9 out of 10 on the stupidity scale over all AC maybe a 7 and alien is a 3 its vastly different. And it's not just oh that was stupid it's erm that just would not ever happen type stuff. All very different levels...

A geologist... which deal with mapping and subterranean architecture doesn't have the skills of a 6 year old ...really? He was scared... really wanted to get out and there was two of them...3d mapping... communicating with ship the place wasn't exactly that big. And they had extra time to get back. Etc etc... anyway been argued a million times over. But it's level 1000 dumbness. not a simple mistake. And when it gets that big you just think sigh and are no longer wrapped up in the film anymore your thinking baaad production :D etc etc...

Those scientists are not of average intelligence not even matching a chimpanzee that is the problem. 

@djamelameziane, you sure have a point there about Fifield, and it is definitely a 9 on a stupidity scale of 10 :)

@Queen - Awesome photo lol

Guys Fifield wasn't stupid for failing to navigate the cave. He was stoned. He was doing exactly what any stoned person would do when trying to navigate a new area. (no stereotyping intended. I think this may actually be what was meant to be conveyed to the audience. Cocky asshole gets high at the wrong time. Can't do his job at all.)

Also, I should clarify, in spite of my comments about Dallas' stupidity, I still loved him as a character. It's also pretty hard to not jump on the "Dallas was Dumb" bandwagon when the OT has that doofy picture of him. I laugh every time I see it.

Yes but you only know he was going to be stoned in the previous script... it's all taken out in the film so basically it doesn't make any sense.  Also the fact that anyone would get stoned on an alien planet when he's already really scared really does not make sense if you have ever been stoned it really doesn't. I would understand if he were a heroin addict and literally was cold turkey couldn't do it on the ship or something so HAD to do it or go mental :) . But stoned hmm...naff even if you do believe it happened that way which well basically doesn't happen in the film. 

Prometheus is 9 out of 10 fifield is more like a 999999999999999 out of 10 illogical beyond reality :O .

djamelameziane

I'm confused what you mean about them not showing it in the movie. I thought we had a moment where Milburn says "what's is that tobacco?" Then Fifield takes a hit which you can hear bubbling and exhales as he replies "yea......tobacco".  

@Queen

You are absolutely right, it is shown and heavily implied in the final movie he is stoned. It's not a cut or deleted scene or a directors cut version, it's in the original.

ALIEN definitely has its problems, but we don't think about them that much consciously because it's been branded as a classic movie and because of nostalgia.

I've said this before, but if it were held it to the same standards as Alien Covenant you could easily make it sound like shit too. The problem is that fanboys RATIONALIZE. We've already seen it in this thread "they're just truckers in space" <- they're the crew of a huge interstellar mining ship. They're supposed to be competent. 

Another character that kind of annoys me is Lambert. Her passiveness during her death and the whole "paralyzed in fear" trope was taken to frustrating levels.

Overall though, it's probably still my favorite movie ever...

I liked Dallas. He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't dumb either. He wanted to break quarantine protocol to save a man's life (Kane). Then, when faced with a decision about the facehugger he left it up to Ash because anything science related was left up to the science officer to handle (protocol developed by WY for instances just like that perhaps? ;-)) Then when it the Alien was loose, who went into the tunnels to try to kill it....himself! He could've left it to someone else, but he wanted to protect his crew. Dallas was literally one of the best written characters in the franchise (in my opinion). 

Prometheus and to some extent AC are victims of pacing and time constraints. Alien - there were only 7 characters in a 2+ hour movie with a small scale story to tell (10 little Indians in space) so of course they were better developed. Aliens had 20 + characters, plus a mythos that was being developed and a bit longer of a run time. A3 again had a larger supporting cast but a similar feel to the first Alien (people trapped, picked off one by one). Not even going to touch Resurrection lol.

Prometheus had the problem of establishing a new mythos within an already prominent one AND introducing new characters we need to care about. All of them pretty much had some good character flaws...AC continued that tradition unfortunately. 

It's not that these newer characters are dumb, they're the victims of poor writing and too much trying to be told in a 2 hour flick.

Dallas. The man. The myth. The legend. LOL.

Ah ok... i had to use my long term memory as i can't bear to watch it again... i thought  it was a cut scene or the main part of it was cut no?... and not very obvious it means anything though anyway even with that ( so got a tiny bit stoned?)..it's been a long time :s . Ok so he freaks out on an alien planet with dead aliens and leaves early to get back and has a friend. Then decides to start getting stoned and it's only about 4 rooms and a 5-10 minute walk to the entrance... he would only just start to feel the effects in that time and no were near enough to get lost! Unless it was something really strong but they were not acting out of it at all really. Just doesn't add up. Sure if they were rolling around finding it hard to stand up and focus i would buy into them getting stuck. And why would anyone smoke cannabis in that situation anyway it makes you paranoid :s . And then he's got a 3d map that could act like Google literally pointing arrows to the way out probably even saying turn left at the next junction... or your going the wrong way. And people in the ship in contact... hmmmm ...