Our thoughts on Advent ?

Nice summary and analysis of “Advent”, Michelle. RS is fond of allusions to Christian theology: “Advent”, “Paradise”, “Covenant”, “Eden”, “Hell”, “Sacrifice” etc.

The stage is now set for Lucifer (The Fallen Angel), that is David, to unleash his horde of serpents (xenomorphs) to cleanse the galaxy of the weak non-believers (in his vision).

Origa means “origin” or “beginning” and with a stretch of imagination the number 6 (apart from sexual undertones in the likeness of Giger) could lead to 666 (the number of the beast). In Alien: Awakening, we will probably have the apocalypse, the end of the world, where God will send out the four horsemen to battle antichrist?

Perhaps David has an internal struggle about good and bad and sacrifices himself at the end, leaving with a juggernaut filled with the eggs of his own making, lands on LV-426 and sends out the warning beacon . . .

In reverse order

chl

If we are going to see three or four elements then the application of the Four Horsemen maybe spot on. 

I have to believe that to bring David to a dramatic conclusion and elevate the story there is a redemption arc in there and that is how I interpret how they will overlay the clues on LV 426 into Davids narrative path.  

sherris

Your general point that this gives you hope is a good one. After all if we think this is all beyond the pale why stay with it.

It is easy to say after the event, but the ALIEN prefix has not expanded the audience but what we have is an entertaining movie with some nice touches and in the round hints of the narrative  gifts from Prometheus. We have an excellent novelisation and a prequel to it to come so its to use Sir Ridleys words "Pretty Good".

But Awakening needs to deal with the David narrative in an imaginative way and avoid troping A L I E N S that reference to the Queen is disquieting.   

Your point about when was Advent made and Kethol reminding us of its source is interesting and lets us in to the mindset of Ridders. 

On the one hand he needs a two hour cut for the cinema (its to do with nightly showings for a an R rated movie) but he knows out there on the Alien Net are a lot of fans who love to parse the stories and out of that emerged the shorts. I am entirely unsurprised that several of us have quite independently said we enjoy and gain more from this than the movie itself. 

Finally I do think there is some element of it being testimony to people like Matt and Dane. One other thought Pietro has said there was twelve minutes of Prometheus linking material part of which was the Crossing, count me as unsurprised if some of the narration belongs to that element.

I am looking forward to seeing this in its full perspective on the Blu ray my huge life concerning dilemma is what order Crossing, Covenant, Advent or.... such a difficult life !

Michelle Johnston - 

I wondered why there was such a strict time limit and assumed it was all to do with pacing and flow. You look at the bigger picture and informed that it is down to run time for R/18 films getting enough showings per night. I realise it is not just down to editing as i really struggled with that. I will let Fox off on that one (just that one tho;)

A.A: It is going to take a master class in writing to pull this off. I am unsure if Fox will do 2 more regardless of how RS feels about it. Then the prequel story may take over a decade. 1 more is all RS has i reckon. Still that will be probably over 8 years to tell this story. With the shift in direction and all the other concerns i just hope we still care by that time.

So we have 2 hours to end this prequel trilogy and get to Alien. Given the vastness of space and the obvious distances between LV 426/LV 223, Planet 4 and Origae 6 just how you could tell a story which needs to take place in at least 2 of these locations?(obviously one is LV426) The only alternative would be to ignore Origae 6 and head to LV 223 for the remaining Pathogen and crash on LV426. Otherwise you get to Origae 6, tell the story and then you need a reason to go to LV426 (or LV223)

Do you have any idea of how that could be covered in 2hrs ??

Even if we jump a few years after A:C the timeline is very tight.

@sherris I agree, I just don't see how they can possible make a good link in a 2 hour film. here's hoping they do it "right" and give it a just treatment with an epic 2:30-2:45 film WITH THE RIGHT STORY/SCRIPT...of course, no one wants 3 hours of junk.

Kethol and i mentioned that in Advent David uses his left hand to check Daniels sleep pod. 

At first i thought it was an oversight. Now i am thinking that David did NOT cut his hand off. Perhaps in the time after the fight with Walter and before he meets up with Daniels he just covered it up to make it look like he was missing a hand.

In fact, if you look closely you may notice that his left (injured) hand is almost the same length as the other and looks like it could be a clenched fist which is covered over  and not a missing hand ????

sherris

There are two way thats you could achieve this in one movie.

The Snapshot Approach

You pick up the story at the precise moment everything is about to change dramatically namely:-

1) The set up (Act 1)

In this act we find out the colonists and Weyland Yutani's jeopardy and through this it explains what has happened since Davids last transmission. (They landed established a rudimentary colony, David began his experiments. W-Y turn up as the colonists seeming helpers in league with David but intend to neutralise David). 

2) The Xenomorphs rebel against their creator made more complicated by W -Y behaviour (Act 2)

3) The arrival of the Juggernaut. (Act 3) 

The Engineers agenda and possibly Walter. The War of the Worlds scenario.

Out of which David escapes, after infecting the Engineers  determined to continue with his plan, is overcome and sets down the Juggernaut en route to LV223 for the larger payload. Recognises the folly of his creation redemption. 

That feels way to obvious but gives you more Xeno's, the Engineers the knowledge that W -Y know something and David's completion. This could be made much more sophisticated by making Walter and David adversaries during this period to focus the drama. David remember took three embryos with him to the ship according to ADF but only regurgitated two in the film. The Pathogen is capable of astonishing re targeting. 

The tear drop ship would have to be a deus ex machina and if used sparingly to cleanse Origae 6 as the final pages eradicating the story so to speak. 

The Framing Device 

In this we see the science division of Weyland Yutani considering all the recordings of David and Walter (akin to the Crossing and Advent but much longer and more in the moment) and the story is told in segments, the crucial segments, until the decision to place Ash on board the Nostromo.  

This latter one is often used by script writers when they are completing episodic television. You know the final outcome (we do any way) but the drama is all in the precisely what happens with the colonists, W-Y, Walter, Engineers and most significantly David. 

I couldn’t resist giving a somewhat different (but similar in some aspects) 3 act structure, Michelle. :)

ACT 1

Setting: Origae 6. Colony established after 7,5 years in cryosleep on The Covenant and 1 year on the planet (We don’t get to know what David’s been up to during this time, but Daniels and Tennessee are gone).

Main Characters: A couple among the colonists. The woman is the protagonist (Scott can’t deviate from that :) ). There are conflicts between different factions in their newly established society on how to rule things and what to do. Engineers (not in the best of moods) later arrive (Act 3) after visiting Planet 4.

Antagonist: David (and his xenomorph experiments).

Call to Adventure: Xenomorph attack. The colony’s future is at risk

ACT 2

Battle between the main characters, David and the xenomorphs. They are defeated by David, the main characters captured, and the colony’s future seems over (many are dead and they are outnumbered by the xenomorphs).

ACT 3

Enter the engineers in a juggernaut. New battle. The heroine manages to escape from David and saves what’s left of the colony, but her husband dies heroically. David is defeated but the last surviving engineer sets off with the juggernaut, David’s eggs and crash lands on LV-426. There is no high-tech left but the colony survives and lives happily ever after.

I would rather see an epilogue, though, where we go back in time to the outbreak on LV-223. An engineer escapes in a juggernaut filled with eggs and crash lands on LV-426 (This way, we keep the connection between the Derelict (and the Space Jockey) and the outbreak on LV-223 about two millennia before the incident on Planet 4).

P.S. They should have kept the atmosphere of this in ACT 3 of AC :)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcFsdVLs9Y D.S.

I am trying to keep my hopes alive for the next movie after watching again Covenant and Prometheus. It cannot be an Aliens 2, not from Ridley Scott.

If anyone has any answers regarding the questions asked below, I would be grateful to listen to them.

1. David brought on board two face hugger embryos, can he continue his experiments without the pathogen? He will use the face huggers on Daniels hoping to get a queen and subsequently more eggs. Are there any other options?

2. I don't know if a synthetic is authorized to pilot the Covenant, except monitoring its systems and evolution on the set track, assisting Mother. For landing on any planet he will need a pilot and he has Tennessee. So Tennessee has to live for the moment? He does not know the syntethic is David, not Walter.

3. On the other hand why would David continue the journey to Origae-6 and not return to Earth or another known planet within a much shorter distance, there is nothing worthy for him on Origae-6. Now that he has his flock of lambs, soon to be the rulers of the Galaxy, why would he strand himself on a distant desert island?

4. Weyland-Yutani also wants to get the xenos for their advanced weapons research, however they cannot trust David anymore. They cannot let him return to Earth, but will they send in the lovely colonial marines and set the meeting on a neutral planet?

5. What was the meaning of "Walter" reporting to W-Y that Covenant is on course to Origae-6 and all colonists remained intact and undisturbed and all the crew apart from Daniels and Tennessee perished in the solar flare incident?

6. Was the David report from Advent much later and Covenant closer to Earth? It did not seem that he had to wait at least 1.36 years to get a reply from the Company.

7. I wonder what in the message exchange with Weyland-Yutani triggered David's reply from the end of Advent: "... if you do this, there will be no turning back. My creatures shall be set loose to rule this Galaxy."

8. Did David ever mention that there are any other living Engineers anywhere else? He must have gained in depth knowledge about their existence. Apparently there were none of them left on LV_223. I don't see why Engineers would return apart for pleasing the fans, they seem rather extinct after Covenant. 

9. Any clues for how or where the announced "war of the worlds" can take place, how the eggs got on board the derelict or how the Space Jockey was face hugged? I have however an absurd theory that the Deacon was a queen who laid all the eggs from the derelict Juggernaut and we can see this at the end of Awakening, something out of context, like the birth of the Deacon in Prometheus. David or the last of the Engineers tried to escape by the loaded ship but ended as the Space Jockey.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Michelle Johnston - 

Thanks yet again i also got some knowledge from it (deus ex machina , snapshot and Framing ;)

Love the insight from your content. Mentioning the Tear Drop ship got me smiling cos that is something i long for;)

The Tear Drop ship  i thought was a wonderful essential idea. My dream was to end as we begun.

By an Acolyte birthing a Planet. Only we this time we see inside Tear Drop on approach. The Elders/Gods/Next level remain on the Planet for the ritual. Maybe it is a longer version with an act prior to the ingesting? Another custom. That would be a great ending for me. Once the film is done we go back to that enthralling intro and expand so much on it. How can we as a audience be reluctant to thay ?????????????

Anyway that was my dream ending. know i asked you about what u think they could do.

Do you have a farouvite Michelle. I know i am cheeky but could you tell me some time i would love to hear your input

daliens

1) The covert operation to bring on board the huggers is the link for the next film. That it was changed from three in the trays (ADF) to two regurgitated both of which achieve the same narrative benefit seems odd.. unless it is significant that David has forgotten (the whole symphony is off) he ingested three.

2) Equally keeping Tennessee alive will have a deliberate intent and give the early part of the movie a source which counters Davids dissembling including Daniels condition.

3) Why did he not divert to Earth rather than the Engineers it is about story and of course in the timeline David must stay out the way known in the end to only a handful.

4) The message to W-Y was "OK everything is back to normal' with Walters re assurance but the Advent tells us David wants to draw them in and they will go to O-6 fair seeming, but with their own agenda. I actually like this idea it links the narrative back to Sir Peter and forward to the acquisitive immoral nature of the company.

5&6) Is the message and advent slightly at odds yes but it could be explained by the Walter message buying David time with the Advent messages coming latter as you suggest. Clearly the W-Y response was we are coming they took the bait, which fits perfectly with all their future action. To them David is "just a robot" who can be switched off, they have no idea how dangerous he has become.

7) There is potentially good drama there. David sets his children on W-Y when he determines their real intensions. Indeed that might be enough is for him to use the Xeno's to occupy the W-Y factions whilst he leaves with his "Queen". Ridley has said the Xeno's will get away from Davids control a perfect metaphor would be her child hugging David and spawning the pure bio mechanical eggs. Ridley once said something got out of the hold and caused the pilot issues perfectly possible. However there is the Engineers.         

8) The Engineers, for them just to get involved in a big scrap does not feel very Ridley. One option is they come with a general intent to put mankind right and this is where the Juggernauts appear War of the Worlds like W-Y take it upon themselves to pursue war, David manages to infect them and in the closing pages escapes not realising he is infected. It does make some sort of sense for David to be heading for LV 223 for more pathogen but does not make it having been compromised. 

I'll try to answer at least one of your questions daliens. As to the other contributors...amazing contribution.

"6. Was the David report from Advent much later and Covenant closer to Earth? It did not seem that he had to wait at least 1.36 years to get a reply from the Company."

My theory is the secure link in Advent David 8 established with the Weyland-Yutani Corp is the sub-space link technology (folding space communication) we saw in Alien 3 when Ripley sent word that the xenomorph was captured and she requested to terminate the organism. 

The request to kill xenomorph was denied instantly and a confirmation was requested from Weyland-Yutani Corp as if the message was sent to the next room and back. 

Just hours later Michael Bishop and team arrived (via sub space) to try and capture a live xenomorph. This event is later in the timeline of events but it shows Weyland-Yutani tech that may be in place when David 8 sends the message in Advent.

sherris

I love the idea of David/Walter the narrator a bit like Root in the final episode of Person of Interest.

It could even be a story told to his parents in the "meet walter" video.

"So what happened to you"  

"Well father some of it is difficult to piece together but I met my predecessor when the Covenant was rerouted that is how it began"

Every so often the story breaks to real time and the twist at the  end is the science division have recorded the conversation and immediately arrange for Ash to be put on board the Nostromo and be diverted.

For me working through the story and seeing Walter appear at Origae 6 and how he came to survive would be really engaging.

He would have something to say about the Engineers whose interventions could be kept at a distance and we would be puzzled over his survival (a floating space bouy) after the Xeno's W-Y ship and the colony is destroyed by the arrival of the Teardrop ship. 

It would be a dark ending but W-Y would have Walter shut down and his parents killed by a young Charles Weyland Bishop. 

This idea is probably my subconscious way of using Michaels tremendous acting skills but from the perspective of Walter looking upon David and his behaviour from a neutral moral perspective rather than the narrative being driven by a mad robot who we all want disconnected at the earliest possible moment.It all so has the effect of placing David once removed rather than as the only one who knows whats going on which is difficult when he is also the antagonist. 

Michelle - Yes that is nuice and dark. But we need punches at the end or our movies too. Something that you feel hit the spot and raised you to exceed all expectations s of the film

EDIT: Maybe Walter can fly or fix one or maybe unlock the grounding codes that disabled 

My head says there is something about Planet 4 and all of this vastness of space.it is smack in the absolute middle of the  habitat zone. did not show up on LR scans. plz give us something on that too if there has been connections ?

sherris

Absolutely one of things I have found fans do when they speculate ahead is they over complicate the story and ignore the real life issues like budget and location setting. 

For Walter to arrive in a Juggernaut alone and the Engineers put in a brief but powerful appearance from the Tear drop ship would keep the narrative lean and elegant. The planet itself they are going to may hold some special significance. If it is habitable then within the rules of this mythos it has been catalysed before. 

The seeding engineers plan may not be for one of their elements of creationism, mankind to colonise the universe. That mankind is out and about with mad robots using an unauthorised pathogen may not put them in good humour. But Ridley will not want to reveal to much of the tear drop mystery its part of its appeal. However I counter that with Damon Lindelof saying in his view "they" have not reached the point in the story that he and Ridley indicated they were going to in the original Prometheus story. 

daliens

I don’t have any answers but I can perhaps contribute with a couple of guesses.

1. David will probably use Daniels as a surrogate mother. He has already stated that he will do the same to her that he did to Shaw. The reference to “Queen” might not be referring to the egg-laying queen in Aliens, just his ironic name for Daniels, just as he saw Shaw as his “Eve”. Daniels must, of course, die since she knows David’s real identity. In Alien Director’s Cut, the alien egg-morphs its victims - Brett and Dallas (no queen is needed). Furthermore, he has about 2000 colonists and 7,5 years before they arrive on Origae 6 . . .
2. David is capable of anything and even learned to fly a juggernaut. He must be in command as the others sleep. If all pilots are dead, David probably has the authorization to drive the ship, or he will wake up one of the colonists who has it. Tennessee would be too much of a risk for David since he would, no doubt, be very inquisitive concerning Daniel’s death.
3. The obvious reason is because he didn’t want it to be known what had happened on Planet 4. They haven’t even been there. The mission is going as planned en route to Origae-6, just a small accident, some died, no big deal. On Origae-6 he can carry on with his experiments, creating an army. He also needs to imprint on every newborn xenomorph so that it sees him as its Father (which we saw him do in Alien: Covenant). The colonists will then be his guinea pigs and will eventually be eradicated, testing his army.
4. As we already know from Alien (Ash and Special Order 937) WY wants this alien specimen so they will, most likely, arrive on Origae-6 (with marines).
5. All’s well and the mission is going as planned. Daniels and Tennessee must of course die.
6. It took Prometheus about 2 years to reach LV-223, and from Planet 4 it’s another 7,5 years to Origae-6, so I would assume that they are further away from Earth. David has obviously changed his mind about telling WY of his accomplishments. His Ego is too big and he needs to brag about it. He is now God.
7. I guess it’s a warning that if they go after him, he will set the wolves free in the galaxy . . .
8. Engineers could be everywhere in the galaxy, I suppose . . .
9. The “War of the Worlds”- scenario might take place on Origae-6 and LV-223. It might be like “The Battle of the Five Armies” in The Hobbit. :), probably between humans (colonists), engineers, WY, and David and his wolves. It could end with everything being eradicated, and (what I would like to see) a flashback scene where we go back in time to the outbreak on LV-223 (2000 years ago), an engineer escapes with the cargo hold filled with xeno-eggs, gets infected and crash lands on LV-426. We will then go “Back to the Future” where The Nostromo lands on LV-426.

What are your own thoughts, Daliens?

Thank you all for your thoughts and theories.

I was thinking that if Origae-6 has nothing to do with the Engineers Covenant would not have to arrive there. Setting up a colony there would seriously affect the budget and timing of the next movie and if they want to show a war of the worlds they would try to optimize the costs on production sets as much as possible. And once the colonists are out of the hypersleep I believe they are sufficient in numbers to stop David. Even if David can imprint on the newly born xenomorphs I don't see him having xenomorphs as bodyguards on Origae-6. That's why I thought that his creatures' army would be created on board Covenant and the only planet they would land would be again LV223.

Or, if they would finally settle on Origae-6, we would get only flashbacks of what happened until the colonial marines arrived.

I prefer too the egg morphing to the alien queen from Aliens but I am aware there are a lot of fans of the queen, However Ridley still has a lot of love for his baby alien and if he would direct the Awakening, the mentioned queen from Advent was only a metaphor. But again how did the thousands of eggs ended up on the derelict? Egg morphing does not seem to be the solution and nobody could have transferred the eggs from Covenant to the derelict. There has to be a queen that did the job on the derelict. Also the eggs from derelict, the face huggers and the chest bursters, not to mention the big chap are different from the ones engineered by David, at least to the moment he left Paradise. That's why I considered the Deacon could be a queen, that theory would satisfy also the audience who, no matter how much they trust David is capable of creating the xenomorph, consider that the alien was a much older creation and part of the engineer mythology. I would have liked that to be more explored and the murals from Prometheus to be more than Easter eggs.

So we could have egg morphing on Covenant or Origae-6 and a Deacon queen on LV223?

The Engineers, if they are still alive somewhere, might come to investigate what happened on Paradise and, on seeing what David did and the crashed Juggernaut, they would go back to LV223 to destroy the planet together with the last remaining pathogen and Juggernauts stationed there. Or could be they did it already and the solar flare incident was the result of that action?

So the "war of the worlds" can unleash somewhere nearby LV223.

I am not sure how the AI are designed but should not be some possibility to remotely switch them off, just in case they are malfunctioning and at least one reboot can clear the problem? There has to be a way to stop one without physically destroying it. Even for maintenance purposes they have to be stopped, no matter how advanced they are, at some point the maker must have the option to take over its control.

Does Weyland-Yutani has the option to remotely shutdown David and take over the control of the Covenant remotely as well? As Ingeniero suggested, they might have already the sub-space link technology.

I would love to see more engineers worlds presented but if the next movie will try to connect directly to Alien there won't be much time for that in a 2 hours screen time. And to design the engineers worlds would be expensive as hell. If Fox would ask me I would rather let the Alien univers expand further than to try to connect the prequels to the 1979 Alien. We have some clues now about who the Space Jockey might be, I personally do not need to see how the Juggernaut crash on LV426.

Even if there will be colonial marines and a queen (Ridleys Queen) in the next movie, as long as Ridley Scott is in charge I believe it will be a good movie. At least for the fans who liked both Prometheus and Covenant, among which I include myself.

daliens

Well, since David has now revealed what he’s done, and secrecy no longer is needed, he doesn’t, of course, have to follow WY’s plan - the colonization of Origae-6 anymore. He can do whatever pleases him. Most likely, he would then take The Covenant to LV-223. There are many facilities there, plenty of mutagen/pathogen, many spacecraft, and - a Deacon. He has also brought with him guinea pigs in abundance (2000). The last battle could take place there, and it’s also close to LV-426.

You if compare the size of the newborn Protomorph in Covenant to the one of the newborn Deacon in Prometheus, the fully grown Deacon has to be huge. I wonder if it is still alive on LV223.

Yes, well, 10 years have gone by, so even if there are bodies scattered about on LV-223 to munch on, the Deacon would most likely be dead by now, unless it can get into some kind of dormancy, awaiting hosts to come by (like the eggs on LV-426)?

Well, considering the fast growing rate and the fact they can regenerate without any nutrients, it may be alive. It doesn't seem to kill for food, probably only to cleanse the place for egg morphing. It is the perfect organism.

However the Neomorph was munching on Rosenthal, so it may need food to survive.

Michelle Johnston- I love how your mind works. i casually thrown Origae 6 into an either inhabitated world needing work or was a planet strictly and directly involved with the species currently in the equation. i never gave much thought or planning to who could "logically" be there. 

Indeed a human or humanoid seeded world by use of the Catalyser. Now that makes for an interesting visit. What if the star they surround is an old sequence star older than ours? Maybe that means a civilisation older than us but perhaps less advanced than us ? how are their visits going ? Has "fire" been given as a gift yet? All that exciting information from just a quick few second storm. This universe opens up with the greatest of ease when substance is added ????

sherris

"Fairly integral is where this colonisation ship is going"

This remark, like the remark Ridley made in a video IV "that the Deacon is the forerunner of the Alien" made in 2015 or that Shaw is in Covenant "in away" are worth remembering. Where the colony ship is going is significant to the story.

David made it clear to Walter with some very direct and impassioned language that he is going to stop mankinds colonisation plans. What would add another layer to the story and bring it round full circle and back in, is if mankind are intruding on a planet which is part of the Engineers seeding cycle where the planets inhabitants are under going an "Awakening". This would also make sense of the 'War of The Worlds" remarks different worlds clashing.

For the Engineers to return into this unauthorised colonisation with the consequence of Sir Peter Weyland's disastrous mission leading to the catastrophe of Paradise out of which the events of the space jockey's story emerges would make for the kind of epic story making that Ridley refers to when suggesting the Alien can exist in a much bigger world view.

We shall see.       

Michelle Johnston - Would just like to this opportunity to thank you for your interaction on "our" thread. i enjoying learning and embrace any changes i can as the comments have been really enlightening.

Very happy with all you exchanges many thanks.

Now for a all out war Cloaked Engineer leads a roman style battle, Engineer sword,shield infantry into close quarters frontline battle with Davids Xenos. The centre of the field hand to hand would be so distrurbing if done in full horror. 

a different approach in a sci fi battle. i havent thought the reasoning yet;)

I am waking this discussion up :-)

The Advent was such a necessary ingredient, though I do miss the old way of putting it all on film. 

After watching both Prometheus & Covenant many times now

I am curious...

"But then they tried to banish the Wolves and undo their creation, so i took their secrets for myself."

"I finally found my wolf" (xeno/protomorph)

David seems to clearly identify his wolf as his version of the xenomorph. Not the primordial ooze/pathogen. I wonder if the Engineers' "wolves" were the Xeno/Destroyer Engineers seen in Prometheus on LV-223 and if the "outbreak" on LV-223 was not in fact deliberate *sabotage*. Perhaps by the more noble-seeming seeder/sacrificial Engineers from the beautiful opening scene in Prometheus, which is alleged to have taken place billions of years ago. I wonder if the Engineers on Planet 4 did not create the albino Engineers in the distant past with a multi-faceted, sophisticated combination of DNA editing and genetic manipulation. Developed by the Engineers but perfected by the creations themselves. Synthetic organic beings with superior intelligence and genetics. Essentially 100% organic AI's. Older, but better designed than David. However noble the early seeder Engineers appear to be, the seemingly later xeno/destroyer Engineers with their advanced pressure suits and apparent ill-intent appear to have been ambushed on LV-223. I would think that they had all but eliminated functional mistakes. The thought of an accidental outbreak doesn't sit right. If you notice the hole in the outer door of the temple (that the Prometheus crew used to access the temple) appeared to have been broken in from the outside. I wonder if that was the Engineers' "banishing and undoing of their creations". We see 5 temples in that one particular area on LV-223 and David says that there are "many other" Juggernauts stored there. Many means more than a few. Potentially dozens. David made it clear that a single application of the pathogen is all it took to render an entire planet uninhabitable. How many worlds were the LV-223 Engineers planning to eradicate of fauna? Was Planet 4/Paradise possibly one of them in an ancient plot to wipe out all races seeded by their creators? It is intriguing to ponder. 

In the Peter Weyland files, Weyland does state that his team picked up a faint signal from LV-426 and that the Moon was of utmost importance if LV-223 did not bear fruit, so it makes sense to have the derelict & The Jockey be a part of the LV-223 "incident" 2,000 years ago, to keep them ancient. As they should be. 

David stated that the pathogen came in many forms. The pathogen stored in the temple explored by the Prometheus crew was clearly coded differently than the pathogen that David used on the Engineers on Paradise, which was stored in the next temple in line of the 5, where David & Shaw procured their Juggernaut. Its safe to assume that multiple versions of the pathogen were formulated & stored on LV-223. While not seen in Covent, the novel by ADF states that David finds an ancient egg with dead facehugger inside on Planet 4. A clue that the Engineers also developed facehugger eggs and that at least one of the temples on LV-223 could have been devoted to eggs instead of urns. This reinforces the derelict on LV-426, storing facehugger eggs beneath a stasis field (instead of climate controlled urns) as its cargo, having originally made an attempt to escape from the LV-223 incident. 

This can keep the original biomechanical xenomorph terror lore intact while David creates a variant that is similar in color and form, but still quite different. 

"There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might"

Why not be benevolent "Gods" that do not push the envelope? That do not need to control in egotistical ways? Perhaps this is why David perceived Paradise as "rotting". Because the original Engineers had stopped being "Gods" and lived more humble, simpler lives....Before David annihilated them....

"For me the Crossing (to the promised land) and Advent (awaiting the coming of the Messiah and anticipated in "The Nativity" by Piero della Francesca in the prologue of A:C) is the real story. The Covenant has come into it and is now anchored to David's journey to the constellation of Origa from which Origae is derived the constellation of the helmsman, ostler, driver, charioteer or perchance the Jockey."

I think this is an outstanding discovery Michelle! I always felt like they wanted to tell us something with the name of their initial goal "Origae-6". I have googled "origa" and "origae" but never found anything. So I came to the conclusion, that it must be a fantasy-name then. But you're right. Since the Space Jockey is something which ultimately must be addressed in the sequel(s) it's not far-fetched to guess that Origae-6 has something to do with the Space Jockey.

If you take the singular of "Origae" you get "Origa" and when you replace the "o" in with an "au" you get "Auriga" - which in fact is

a) a stellar constellation and

b) translates from Latin to "the charioteer".

The connection to the jockey should be obvious. So that's a nice easter egg right there.

I missed the Topic as it was during a period when i had a lot on my Plate.

I will attempt to contribute latter as its a very interesting Topic.

Something that maybe plays a larger role than we may think is the LATIN Language, indeed a lot of the Engineer Writing can be Translated to a ENGLISH Alphabet, but its when we take these WORDS and translate them from Greek but more so Latin that we end up with Words that make any sense.

When Translating Origae, Origa and Auriga from Greek to English we get nothing, but when we translate from LATIN we get the following.

Origae = Origin: and indeed this is a Origin Tale.

Origa = Driver: the next chapter is supposed to drive us to ALIEN

Auriga = The Driver and indeed is a Constellation.

So it is highly likely Origae-6 will be a World within the Constellation of Auriga we know the next Chapter was intended to DRIVE us closer to ALIEN and the Quest to Answer the ORIGIN of those Eggs on the Derelict.

Auriga is also a SLAVE with Gladiator Status Tasked with Driving a BIGA (Chariot)  to essentially Chauffeur around Important Roman Military Personnel.   So this could Represent the SPACE JOCKEY but also it could be David.

The Charioteer of Delphi is also known as the Auriga of Delphi and so indeed a common connection is a Charioteer when we are looking at the word AURIGA

It will be interesting to see if this place Oriage-6 has any connection with the Engineers, or if it will just be the location of where the Engineers Chariot departs heading towards LV-223.

I wonder if Origae-6 will actually be located in the System Delta Aurigae

I will get to reply to other comments on this Topic, but i will first reply to the OT.

"David: There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by "Gods" who feared their own might. They convinced themselves that sacrifice would cleanse them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me..... "

We know that the Engineer have been referenced as Gods a number of times, but not Gods in the Traditional Sense.  If we assume this World is the Paradise that the Engineer spoke to David about when David had talked to the Engineer about why the Prometheus had came... Where the Engineer informed David THEY do-not come from LV-223 but from a World we would call Paradise.

so we have to look at what is Paradise, this is a place that has a number of different meanings depending on Religion/Culture but it is Mostly a place where only the WORTHY are allowed to go... only those who are Deemed Worth being allowed here.. This varies culture to culture but sometimes its those Who Have Died in Battle/Honorable Death, those Who Die in the name of GOD.  Sometimes those who are Pure, and keep the Honor/Word of GOD.

The other context for PARADISE is the Cradle of Creation....  and so with Planet 4 we can look at it in BOTH those ways... This was a place where those Engineers were maybe deemed PURE/WORTHY it could be a place that the Seeded Worlds/Life-forms who have not Sinned against the Great Agenda/Purpose are taken... a place for the Worthy Humanoid Creations.  HOWEVER... it could be the Place also where CREATION began..

It would appear that David saw so much more Potential in Creation, that the Engineers Did-Not... maybe this could be in context of the EVOLUTION of Species and maybe a NOD to the LV-223 Engineers. (Genetically Engineered) so David has seen more Potential with the Engineers Black Goo Creation/Evolution Tool.  That the Engineers had maybe Turned their backs on.

Sacrifice, Sin and Lambs are all interesting because the LAMB often refers to in Biblical Sense of Purity, Innocence and Sin-Less, a Lamb is Sacrificed for the Greater Good and a Pure Offering to GOD.  The Lamb is also referenced with the LAMB OF GOD which is Jesus Christ and more so the representation of how Pure, and without Sin that CHRIST is and also that it is through Christ that Everyone could be WASHED of Sin and made Pure again.

so the Engineers Sacrifice to Wash Away their Sin, could be seen as them offering a Sacrifice to their GOD the same as the Abrahamic Religions Sacrifice of a Lamb, and so indeed Sacrifice and appeasing GOD and Ridding of Sin could all be connected in Context to the Engineers.

The Question comes to WHO is the Lamb of the Engineers?  Some of their own... Pure/Perfection/Virgins?  Or Mankind?

"But in the end, they were like me..... "

This is a interesting part too, because the Engineers are/were Creators, which David has become using their Tools of Creation.  But also DAVID was a SLAVE a Servant... and maybe the Engineers or a Caste of them were Slaves too at One Point.

The Ancient Ritual of Sacrifice is interesting because this Cruel Ritual could be regarding the Sacrifice of a Engineer to Seed Worlds... but i feel this Ritual is something seen as a Honor for the Chosen Sacrifice. So the Question is if this refers to a MUCH latter kind of Sacrifice and for what purpose is this... and is this a Sacrifice to Create with the Black Goo,  Sacrifice to something Created from the Black Goo (Xenomorph like Organisms) or simply to Sacrifice their Body/Soul as in the Sacrificial Scene... this is the very AMBIGUOUS part.  And ONE which Planet 4 does not give much Clues about...    Apart from Pondering if the Table in the HALL OF HEADS was some kind of Ritual Sacrifice Table.   LV-223 gave some Sacrificial Clues but they was very Ambiguous also.

The Wolf is interesting as its usually a sign of Balance/Self-Control and in context to the Bible, it represents a number of things... often appears as a Warning to those who lead a Stray, also as a Ravenous Predator and so when looking at the Biblical Accounts and what Verses come before and after... it appears to Represent a Punishment for those who Stray Away from GOD or their Lambs.  (so those who stray from Innocence, Purity without Sin).   It also appears as a Warning that Wolves may be among us, as in the Corrupt and False Prophets.

So a Wolf to the Engineers could be their Inner Struggle/Corruption that they hope to get rid of by Sacrifice... it could indicate that Sacrifice themselves to the Wolf cleans them of SIN the other context with the WOLF could be a Punishment to use against those who are SINFUL and as the Wolf can represent Balance/Control this fits with a Wolf being used as a Method to Bring Balance/Control thus fitting with Davids Comment about "Beings that understood you must give life to both the Wolf and the Lamb."

The next Question is regarding.. "But then they tried to banish the Wolves and undo their creation"

This really is Ambiguous and maybe i need to do a bit more digging on this one.   We see from the Context of the Engineers they apparently CREATED Mankind..  Prometheus appears to show us those LV-223 Engineers and the Bio-Weapon are a attempt to UNDO their Creation and so could the Bio-Weapon Experiments AND/OR the LV-223 Engineers the WOLF?

HOWEVER.... we also know they Created the Bio-Weapons on LV-223, and maybe the Undoing is Towards this Creation or those LV-223 Engineers?

Can we even rule out Mankind as the Wolves?

So much to cover.... Before i try and ANSWER Daliens Questions and respond to some of the replies.. i will touch upon the ideas for how to PROCEED with the Franchise.

Its nice to hear people on here who have seen the Potential with maybe Ridley Scotts Vision, and so people who DONT see the Prequels about MAD ROBOTS and thinking we need a more XENOMORPHY Connecting Point.

Like some on here include Michelle, i think indeed Davids Arc can be fixed, and we need to go about adding some Humanity to his Character and some Redemption,  because as she kind of said... going the route of a EVIL MAD ROBOT who is HELL BENT on only Creating the Xenomorph to use on Mankind... is something that i am not sure people would be interested in.   As a lot of Fans would be looking to see David killed off due to the Character/Arc much like how Dr Shaw was when her Character/Arc was not to everyone's likes... where as SHE could have been Salvaged with a Character/Arc Change.

The MAIN Focus does appear that David is in part responsible for the Xenomorph on LV-426 and thus if David and Shaw never left LV-223 then we would not have any Xenomorphs on LV-426

We have David in Control of the Colony Ship the Covenant with only TWO Face Hugger Embryos, thats a LOT less than the Xenomorph Eggs on the DERELICT but we have to look at the Number of Colonist on the Covenant... THOUSANDS of Good Souls..  so the NEXT FOCUS will have to be Davids Objective and Agenda... If it is to simply Create a Army of Xenomorphs.... then David could do that by taking Colonist down to Planet 4 instead of going to Origae-6 he could even Create MANY while on the Covenant...  But Origae-6 would provide a GOOD TRAP but so could a Stranded Covenant Ship.... but if David was to use the Covenant Ship or a Planet to Incubate his Xenomorphs as a Trap, then the Planet would be better...  But in either case David has GIVEN a lot away in his ADVENT not a clever message if you wish to Set-Up a Trap....  HOWEVER... here is something to Consider... if David wishes to Destroy Mankind... then surely a Engineer Ship from LV-223 with the Black Goo would do the better job.

So DAVIDS AGENDA... is the Key thing to look at... and it appears he will be heading to the Planet... so we can assume Origae-6 which will take nearly 7.5 years and so if David sets right off after Alien Covenant he would arrive at Origae-6 around the end of APRIL 2112 and so 10 YEARS prior to ALIEN

So NEXT we have to ASSUME David arrives at Origae-6 around April 2112 and the Question is WHAT does he do then? and WHAT has he done in the years leading to this (7 years. 4 Months) maybe it could be to Mass Produce Xenomorphs... but Planet 4 has many more, LV-223 has more Stocks of the Pathogen...   and so TWO Important things to take into account are.... Ridley Scotts comments about the Next Movie would not be about Xenomorphs.. not mainly, it would be about AI and also his comments about "what kind of a World would David Create" which means we surely wont be seeing David experimenting and creating Many Xenomorphs.. at least this would not be the Majority of the Movie...

For a MOVIE to do well, we need Characters who we can invest in and connect with so we feel their Jeopardy and this could come from the COLONISTS... but also any Future INCOMING Human Ships sent to Origae-6.

Much like the Crossing Period... we cant really invest a lot of Screen Time to the goings on BETWEEN when David has placed those Embryos on the Covenant.... to when some 88 Months latter when he arrives at Origae-6 so its likely that David takes the Covenant to Origae-6 and the Colony Begins to be set up.... which means David has to come up with a Good Explanation for the Missing Crew, and Charade as Walter..

SO....... we have arrived at this POINT... but there are a few things that NEED to happen if this Movie will eventually lead to ALIEN

*The Xenomorph lacks the Aesthetic of the Derelict Xenomorphs, and so is this a Oversight or will we see some EVOLUTION to Davids Creation.

*For David's Creations to end up on the DERELICT we need a Engineer Ship.

*This Engineer Ship has to for some reason be heading towards or leaving LV-223 at the point where the SPACE JOCKEY suffers his Fate.

Ridley Scott Mentions that Engineers will Return, they wont be pleased and they will be after were ever David has gone... THIS has to be the way the Engineer Ships come into play.  

LV-426 is no-where near Origae-6 and so there has to be a REASON for why a Engineer ship may arrive at Origae-6 and then Depart for LV-223.  

*Does David take the Engineers Ship from after it arrives on Origae-6?

*Do the Engineers take Davids Creations on the Ship, but why head to LV-223?

Maybe they make a Covenant together? I also think the Engineers or who ever return, may have a INTEREST in Davids Creation and maybe Attempt to Perfect this by taking it to LV-223?  At the FOLLY/HUBRIS of tampering with Davids Creation.

I think these are the Elements that will have to come into play, but there are many ways these can be explored....  They form the broad story for my Alien Covenant Sequel which is Alien: Ascension  which leads to the Final ACT which is Alien: Absolution where we get to the Space Jockey and Cover Up all the Cracks/Plot Holes ;)

If anyone has any answers regarding the questions asked below, I would be grateful to listen to them.

1) This is a interesting Question, we need to look at Davids Agenda..  If it is to Purely Create the Xenomorph in Mass, then David has OTHER Eggs on Planet 4.. There is Black Goo on Planet 4.  It appears David has reached near Perfection with his Creation and so taking the Black Goo alone would mean STARTING all over again..   The Best Option for him would be getting 1-2 Ampoules of Black-Goo,  and using this with those Embryos to Pass on those Traits onto a FEMALE Humans Reproductive Egg Cells.  This appears to be in part the Process David used to Create his Xenomorphs...  OTHERWISE we have to ask how does TWO Face Huggers Procreate THOUSANDS of Eggs...

Egg Morph? This would be interesting?   But David said in the ADVENT he needs to Perfect his Queen and i doubt Ridley Scott would go the route of Face Hugger + Daniels = Xenomorph Queen.

Who knows if the THOUSANDS of Eggs does not happen until we get to LV-223?  And maybe only ONE of those Xenomorphs gets on the loose on Origae-6... but then this goes against Davids Pursuit of his QUEEN.

2) This is a Good Question, i would think Walter/Synthetic has a certain amount of Control, who knows what Safe-Gaurds the Company has against a Synthetic so that only a Human Ranking Officer can Amend some Controls/Commands of the Ship.. in which case the Synthetic would have to AWAKEN a Crew Member with such Privileges.  So maybe Walter (David) could Awaken Tennessee and gain some more Control, but he would want to know WHY he has not asked Daniels and were SHE is... a Sticky Situation for David but one which could make a interesting Scene... as David gets what he wants and Tennessee discovers who David is... Forcing David to Eradicate him.

I would ASSUME that David could operate the Lander, but also we need to REMEMBER that David had managed to input a CODE to MUTHUR does the Ship have Hidden Codes that David could Access?  Or Did David Program a set of Commands and Codes as WALTER while the Surviving Crew got up to what ever Business they did for a Few Hours after they made it to the Covenant.

3) This is a MASSIVE Question, i covered this in my previous post and so a lot depend on his Agenda...  i guess Turning up to Earth or close by would be a bit suspicious, and depends on HOW MUCH the Company know, which could be a fair bit from the Covenant.  A David turning up to Earth or heading here with Xenomorphs in a attempt to destroy Mankind would be a Easy Threat for a MILITARY ship to Destroy the Covenant.   Going to LV-223 or another Engineer World and getting a Juggernaught would be the better way to ERADICATE Mankind... or even sneaking some Urns on the Covenant and sneaking them to Earth and then Unleashing the Contents into the Atmosphere/Water.  It would appear that CREATING what ever World David wants is his Main Objective rather than to instantly KILL Mankind which conflicts with some of what David has said in Alien Covenant.  I think he is BANKING on the Greed of the Company and wishing to Exploit Davids Discoveries and Creation would lead to a GREAT FOLLY/HUBRIS for the Greedy Executives..

4) A lot depends WHAT and WHEN the company gets the ADVENT message, but then its a Question of IS another Ship Due to arrive at Origae-6 Many Years after the Covenant has set up SHOP? so another Ship could be WELL on its way before the Company get the ADVENT Message.. But then it depends when they get the Message... IF they get it before any other Mission is due to Depart... then sure they would have some Contingency Plan/Military/Scientific Expedition Planned.  A LOT Depends on the Moral Compass and Agenda of the Company.. and WHO is calling the Shots... could HUMANS be so Cruel to Send Lambs to the Slaughter?  Or is their a AI Element thats running the Show with Mankind not in the know?

Thats the First 4.... the others are more connected so i will answer them separate.

5) Its seems David is at this point doing a Charade of Walter, his objective is to report back to Mission Control that the Covenant is on its way despite suffering a Set-Back...  where David is informing the Company the losses are via the Nutrino Burst Event.

6) I dont think we are aware of WHEN the Advent Viral had been sent, we also have to think that David is NOT Stupid and so it depends what his Goal/Agenda is... if it is to set up a Colony he knows it will take 7 Years 4 Months to arrive on Origae-6 and so Chances are he WOULD-NOT want the Company to arrive at Origae-6 until he has Set in Place what ever Objective he has next as far as the Fate of the Colonist.  So he could have sent the ADVENT a while after he has been on his way to Origae-6 and so he may have sent this after he received a reply to the WALTER Message. 

7) This is interesting as its Basically David saying quite a bit about his Creation and the THREAT it poses.... Seems a odd thing for him to say, because surely the Company would come in ARMED and Prepared but then maybe they DONT know Fully what they are dealing with... because Special Order 937 it appears the Humans at least are not aware still of much of the THREAT to what they are dealing with.

What we cant rule out is IF there is a AI Element at play... how out of Control has that Genie out of the Bottle Got?  Ridley Scott said the next movie would be more about AI and not Xenomorphs (which does not mean NO Xenomorphs). And so WHO knows really how IN-CONTROL AI is without Mankind knowing about it...  So maybe the Advent is a way to let any AI Rogue Element have knowledge so they can put in place a Plan and the Humans will be BAIT?  I cant say for sure that AI has Control over the Company... playing a Waiting Game like Darth Sidious was when he was Charade as Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic but i think it could fit with Ridley Scotts Comments and Explain why ASH was so Fascinated by the Xenomorph.   We need to REMEMBER that Out of Control AI is something that Plagues the Earth at the time of Alien Resurrection.

8) Ridley Scott mentions that Engineers come and go from Planet 4 at certain intervals, and looking at the Back Ground from Prometheus, its LIKELY the Engineers would be Located in other Parts of the Galaxy too, and even OTHER Galaxies.

I dont think they are EXTINCT because i feel Ridley Scott feels the ENGINEERS are one of the Key Players and Things to Bring LIFE back to the Franchise.  I feel the Engineers and their History/Culture and where else and what else they have been/created was something he had started with Prometheus and Reflects his comments about being ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.

9) Ridley Scott had mentioned he saw the Franchise as having Potential to be big like Star Wars and Star Trek he wanted to STEER away from ALIEN with Prometheus but it appears his HAND was FORCED somewhat to give us a Direct Prequel.   The Engineers Plot opened up the Franchise to their Race, Conflicts and other Races they Created and Interacted with.

A War of the Worlds would Contradict the Alien Franchise a bit.. UNLESS Ridley Scott intended to Remove ALIENS on wards from Canon.. or have the most HUGE coverup and conspiracy at play.

But introducing us to the Engineers does leave the Door Open to explore where else these beings are in the Galaxy and Who Else they could be at Conflict with.  I feel a WAR OF THE WORLDS... aka.. Engineers, vs Humans, vs Synthetics vs Xenomorphs.. would be a bit contradicting  IF this WAR is brought too close to Earth.

Regarding the FATE of the Space Jockey and those Eggs... MY MONEY is on the Engineers or other Race seeing Davids Xenomorph as NEAR Perfection and Ending up on LV-223 to EVOLVE it and set off on a WAR OF THE WORLDS.... Either at the Hubris of this Being or at the Sabotage by DAVID.