biggest worries and hopes about alien awakening and advice to ridley scott

I'm apprehensive over Awakening mainly because of Upworth and Ricks, but also because of Covenant's overall sublime art. Bringing back Tennessee and Daniels can make sense, due to the intense evil nature of Alien Covenant's ending, but at the same time the evil nature of the ending was deeply philosophical. The other thing, is that the evil nature of the ending helps the meaning of Upworth and Ricks, so that would be reason to not bring back any crew members. 

I think Awakening needs to revolve around the Engineers, and not feature any human characters; this would help the symbolism of 1979's Alien, as it would mean that the 1979 film would be a definitive human story whereas Awakening would be a definitive alien story, just featuring extraterrestrials

Yes, you are right. You cannot please every fan. But at least you can try to not offend most of the fans. And BTW the fans alone don't make a profitable movie, so the main focus should be to engage a larger audience with a groundbreaking story. Actually that's the word the Fox CEO recently used. Some of points you mention sound like formula. However, I would highlight your point # 5: answering questions, and not in a viral video, and not in the form of exposition. They have to embed those answers into the narrative through inquiry and revelations. And those revelations should not be predictable.

trokanmariel I like that idea. A movie with just Engineers and no humans. That won't happen but a story that still features a few humans can be an Engineer movie in spirit.

joylitt  Having some humans for the sake of having some humans would be the wrong move; the script should only include humans if it's necessary to tell a philosophical story. Symbolically, it feels more logical to discard humanity entirely for Awakening because of the intense anti-human stance of Alien Covenant. Covenant's story is very much to do with attacking human-centric ideology, and so it feels logical to have Awakening represent that attack by including no humans. 

The Engineers are a very risky idea as well, because having Engineers as main characters and even just as supporting characters would run the risk of destroying the classic movies; although in fairness I couldn't give a crap about Alien and Aliens at this point. If the Engineers can tell a great story but have to destroy the 1979 and 1986 films, so be it

I could be on board with Daniels becoming a queen only if the character development was really good so it would have maximum impact.

I could actually be fine with less dying and more transforming/mutations.

The morphs are always neat but I would be ok to have them less prominent.

@Joylitt

I can not complain, i m over the moon knowing that Scott is commanding the helm again, talent has to spare, he already knows what his weak point, [is not a screenwriter or writer], which surprises me knowing such artistic talent, but the Movies World is sometimes odd, even AC is a real Rembrant if you see another Scify films along 2017, I do not think AC had excessive CGI, recently I have seen different scripts and draft concepts along the Net about next Alien movie, I did not like them anyway. Next script should change many things, including David, Covenant ship and of course Daniels as last survivor of the mission. I bet more for Peter Weyland character for ex, and why? I have seen a lot of potential in Jared Leto role as Niander Wallace in BR 2049. 

trokanmariel Yes, that is exactly what I mean. A few humans but crucial to the story. The next one needs a lot of weirdness and unpredictability. I don't think having the Engineers front and center would tarnish the Alien movies legacy. If done right it can put things in context and even provide a setup for the post Aliens movies (in case they decide to declare Alien 3 and 4 non canon). For instance, it can explain why Weyland Yutani  wants to get hold of a xenomorph so desperately in spite of being so dangerous.

Roger55 I wouldn't pay attention to any "spec scripts". I would pay more attention to the ideas and theories floating around (specially very old ones), some of which are much better than anything we've seen in Covenant. 

dk I think it is pretty safe to say we won't see Daniels again, unless her memory is erased or something like that.

Love to have Peter Weyland back in the mix. Let's say he is stored in a special room/area in hibernation(clone) or stasis(Synth) on board the Covenant(or another star ship or just start "Awakening" on Mars with Peter)...I'd would be shocked if the old guy didn't clone himself or upload to a synth. And it would be very cool to have a young Guy Pearce(49).

Have the end of Covenant, David reviving Peter.

David "Good morning Mr. Weyland"

Trokanmariel - Great idea i too like it. Have a film with Engineers and their Gods open the mythos more explain some shit and lets keep the interesting parts alive for the next installments.

I worry they ignore the SJ after telling it in Prometheus. I think they may forget A:C destroyed that idea with David being the 1979 Xeno creator. Now the Eggs arent there yet.r if they are can only contain an Engineers version which end product will not be a 1979 Xeno

Other than that i do feel there are some pot holes that are so many in number it will be hard to navigate through A:A without falling through a few which would be a real shame on al lthe hard work they put in and the time we did.

Regardless i will be there every step of the way.

I scored A:C 3/5 but as a standalone it would of been an easy 4.

I watched it maybe 20 times so it cant be that bad. Just not what i had planned ;)

Agree.Just want the so called "Ultramorph" to bee an engineers creation, that David was recreating.

What i disliked the most in A:C was that they didnt gave Walter a gun...

The most i want is to bring back Walter and reprogramm David + blonde hair.

Then it will be perfect to see eggmorphing and never the queen.

I am really hoping to never see a Queen, as that gives the appearance (to me) of bees in a hive & the Xeno is so much more than that!!!!

Guys, I am is total agreement with the Engineers being largely involved in the next installment, too!!

Also, maybe the SJ could still be ancient, somehow, too?

>Fan gives Ridley Scott some advice

>Same fan tells Ridley Scott not to listen to any advice from fans

hmmm

This reply is relevant

@Lawrence of Arabia

I hope so.... i think its a case of what does FOX blame for the disappointment with Alien Covenant... it appears that the direction both prequels had taken are what they think is a disappointment.

All the comments and clues leading up to Prometheus 2 seemed to point to a movie that would not give us Xenomorphs yet, but explore the reasons behind the Engineers Culture, why we was created, and what caused those on LV-223 to start to do such experiments...  and for Dr Shaw to get some answers.

It would appear FOX saw Alien 5 was getting more Hype and Interest and so they had got RS to bring the Xenomorph connection back...

So they tried bring the Xenomorph back.... we have to ask is the Xenomorph in AC why the movie disappointed?

Was it that the Xenomorph did not quite look the same?

Was it that the Xenmorph Chest Buster disappointed fans?

Was it that there was not enough shown of the Xenomorphs?

Was it the Faster Gestation of the Xenomorphs?

OR... Was it Davids Involvement in the creation of the Xenomorph?

Looking at the General Public reaction.. well Majority of fans, it seems most are disappointed with the Chest Buster and Gestation/Growth Rate.

But then we get what seems more like 35/65% Split against David being the Creator of the Xenomorph, it just appears TWO 3rds in general would have not liked David to had anything to do with the original Xenomorph.

So for the Sequel... its a case of does FOX feel, they should ignore the Xenomorph?  Or is it that they feel Davids role needs to be toned down and give some other explanation for the eventual Eggs on the Derelict?

A lot of Prometheus Fans felt the way Dr Shaw was handled and Engineers as in all being brushed under the Carpet was a Disappointment, but then i noticed a number of people still felt AC was touching to much on Prometheus

i think the majority Fan Boys...   still are in denial and are holding out for the Xenomorphs to be Ancient, having a more powerful role than just a engineered Bio-Weapon be that by Bald Humanoids or Crazy Androids.   And also holding out that the Engineers role is not as large as bringing in some other Race who Fans would hope as the Creators of the Xenomorph or even relations to the Xenomorph itself.

it appears, a majority are not so happy at the whole Engineers, being Ancient Humanoids who are our Ancestors or connected some way and interpreted as our Gods/Creators...   Never mind how this Race also Created or are Responsible for the Derelict, its Cargo and the Xenomorph.

I think a lot of Fanboys in Hindsight would rather a different more Alien Approach to the Xenomorph Origin and Space Jockey that has nothing to do with investing in the Company Back Ground and Androids never mind Ancient Astronaut Theory Story.

Give us the Ganesha Space Jockey... Some may Scream... Give us Queens....

So i HONESTLY think it depends how much RS is interested in his Story about Creation/Creator Rebellion and the Engineers Arc and Davids Arc...   And if FOX agree this is the way they should have taken Prometheus Sequel.... and not bring the Xenomorph back...

Or if FOX feel that its not the Xenomorph that was the failings but the whole set up from Prometheus to AC regarding the Emphasis on Engineers, Creators, Gods and Rebellion and David.

I feel now they have started this Path they cant abandon it..., they have to stick to it... but they can merely Change David as a Re-creator of the Xenomorph and have him Evolve something that actually ends up being less Xenomorph than evolving more Xenomorph.

And then bring in some other Race who used the Engineers merely as Slaves and in some kind of Sacrificial purpose that Xenomorph Related Organisms play a Role..

Thats how i think they need to Save the Story now...

1) They have written themselves into a corner with this one, with the Ending they chose where Daniels knows about David, i think Daniels will ultimately be used by David, hopefully we get some screen time to Davids Horrific Agenda with her, than what we got with Dr Shaw in Alien Covenant.... i also think for Davids Agenda that Sadly Tennessee has to be killed too.

We need to think of it from Davids POV, unless he intends to set up the Covenant Ship as a Lab and experiment and create a Xeno Egg Hive on just that Ship?

If he intends to arrive at Origae-6 and it has no colonists etc, and he intends to allow the Covenant crew to set up a Colony to a certain size...   then Daniels and Tennessee are going to be a problem and David would be better off Killing them and then covering up the whole events of Alien Covenant and explain the loss of Crew due to the Solar Neutrino Accident..

2) Totally Agree... they need to make TWO movies, so the next can continue with David and then End his Part there... if they wish to get from AC-Alien in One Movie and down play David then this means he would have to not have no more than Half the Movie about his agenda etc.

its a interesting twist with David and the Xenomorph where he could Evolve it more to the 1979 one, or its Engineers interaction or evolution of Davids experiments that gives us the 1979 Xenomorph...

But then they could U-Turn back again, and have it that David has merely created a different more Advanced form of the 1979 Xenomorph.

3) It appears they will be making Daniels a Queen, its a Quesiton of will this be via.

a) Experiments on her Eggs, where David uses her Egg Cells to produce more Eggs, but then he would need the Black Goo or find a way to extract Face Hugger DNA and implant it in the Egg Cells.

b) Daniels becomes a Hybrid Birthing Machine, again this would need Black Goo or David some how extracts Face Hugger DNA and makes Daniels a Hybrid.

c)  Daniels + Face Hugger creates a Egg Laying Xenomorph.

I do fear they will take OPTION C

I just want something that I will enjoy! I am not totally sure what that is. I just hope that they have decided to stop waffling. Once Prometheus was released, it seems that the studio has gone whatever direction the complaints blow, but they didn't necessarily look at all the critical takes or reasons behind them. They, like, took the simplest version of what they saw/heard online and then went with it. 

Now, I just want the studio to take a SLIGHT step back and try to let Ridley's vision be the driving force behind the creation of this movie. I mean he was for Covenant, but not from the beginning. You know, he had Prometheus 2 basically worked out in his mind (and probably a few drafts of screenplays from a writer), but then everything was reworked. He still seems proud of the film they made, so hey.

@Roger55

Have you any links to information on some of the drafts/ideas? And are they Fan Made or actually what FOX are planning.

It would have been interesting to see what the Paglen/Green drafts were touching upon... only so i can see if the Source i had was Legit or Porkies....   i have not heard no more information apart from 3 months ago they just said there was a Change of Plan, but they could bring back the ideas regarding the Engineers Role and Mankinds in the Grand Scheme of things and that its quite a surprising twist and sinister one that they will not give no details....

I think they dont know any direction that will be taken, but they had a idea (unless they are a BS source) of where they was going before they changed Prometheus 2 to Alien Covenant and so it appears some of the things they was touching on in Prometheus: Pandemonium could be explored in future movies...

It would been interesting to see a leaked Green/Paglen Draft to see if it added up with the  Source or if the Source is thus BS!  But a lot of things did add up though... i was looking to see how they claim the Engineers are just as David is... and that Mankind plays the bigger role in the Xenomorph etc...

after AC all seemed to be a bit different...

But this Wayne Haagg concept certainly seems to connect to what the Source hinted at....

Cant seem upload Image so here is the LINK

Dont worry its a image on this Site ;)

@cuponator3000

Indeed there was at least 8 drafts for Prometheus 2 apparently and the October 2014 One was considered Final and Ready to Go

But RS was busy....  and then we got Blomkamp's Alien 5 idea etc that seemed to get all the Fanboys Excited.... 

And i think FOX then felt actually they do need to focus on the Xenomorph and bring it back and have the next few movies directly lead to the Derelict.

So a lot appears to be Changed... but they Keep Davids Agenda as Creator and potentially have changed a Attempted Re-Creation/Perfection to then David Creating instead.  Which Bummed out many a Fanboy

 BigDave

What I believe FOX sees as a disappointment is how conservative the fanbase is. They don't like change, reestablished lore, and not seeing the big picture all at once. What I've taken away from the fanbase is they didn't like the mystery being expanded on, they were upset with the lack of Engineers and Shaw (which I don't understand because what answers did you want to be answered? Why did they want to destroy us? Also the Engineers weren't wiped off the board as their presence was still felt in A:C and Shaw's death was expected if you understood Prometheus), and the focus on David being the creator of the Xenomorphs instead of it being some space animal (which I don't understand since the Alien is biomechanic and was always intended to be a bioweapon). I find it funny how most of the fanboys cried for the Xenos in Prometheus but then Ridley compromises, gives it to them, and now they are out for his head because of a lack of understanding. The creature is still an Engineer product or at least the ancestors were until David got a hold of their work and improved it into the Big Chap. What the fanbase wants is too out there, how do you make a movie about foreign space aliens with no relations you can't understand and grab the audience? It's just not as compelling as the mythology we have being setup because it lacks a connection that these prequels do. Yeah, the universe is shrinking but in the context of the Alien universe (throughout the entirety of the saga humanity has not found any sentient life) and as a story Prometheus/Covenant are just more clever and sensible. I believe Ridley is still keen on this arc because he only makes films he's interested in and it's too late now to change what he's already set in motion without destroying the narrative. Ridley should stick to his guns and tell the story he wants to tell or else it's gonna feel like a cop-out.

I also somewhat understand the indifference to a more AI centric storyline but something different for a change isn't a bad thing, it's not like the synthetics have never had a major role before in the saga and this only expands the mythos. Did we really wanna see another Ripley-esque female lead again so soon? It would just be more of the same and the franchise would stagnate imo

Post-Alien Covenant, it seems that the logical options are as follows..

1. Awakening doesn't bring back Daniels and Tennessee, but carries on with David's war with the Engineers

2. Awakening brings back Daniels and Tennessee, and also carries on with David's war with the Engineers

3. Daniels and Tennessee don't come back, and David's war with the Engineers is just the backdrop

4. Daniels and Tennesse don't come back, and David's war with the Engineers is the main plot.

Assuming Daniels and Tennesse come back, this would force the Engineers to be part of the main plot

BigDave The focus need to change. Covenant made its point about the dangers of sentient A.I. You cannot do that all over again. Whatever David does next if he continues on the same path will be predictable. A movie about that would make half as much money as Covenant did (if lucky). So they have to shake things up storywise, and delve deeper into the Engineer/Alien mythology. It's good to have several parties involved, and you can even make one of this parties something completely unpredictable, even poignant. The only thing that probably you cannot do is bring back the elephantine SJ, everything else is up in the air now.

joylitt

"So they have to shake things up storywise, and delve deeper into the Engineer/Alien mythology."

I agree, which is why they are back on the board with Awakening. Though I would still like some of their culture to be left shrouded in mystery. I believe the 3 to 4 parties involved will be David, humans, Engineers, and the aliens themselves. We still need to see David's journey in perfecting the perfect organism to bring things full circle.

joylitt  I agree that Awakening needs to move away from David, because the theme he presents has been covered. The literal theme is that David wants to destroy the universe, which of course shouldn't be referenced in the script. However, if David is censored, does this make it wrong to bring back Tennessee and Daniels? The duo are linked to David, and so it be strange to focus on Daniels and Tennessee but not David. Something tells me the film will repeat Alien Covenant; Alien Covenant ignored Shaw and David, and so maybe Awakening will ignore the immediate aftermath of Alien Covenant

Lawrence of Arabia It seems we have found a middle ground. Let's raise our glasses to that lol. I have no doubt David will continue to try to develop what he perceives as "the perfect organism". However, I think it would be interesting if that meant one thing for the Engineers, and another for humans. Regarding the Engineers' culture, what if instead of leaving it shrouded in mystery you show it but making it so weird that is hard to comprehend...

trokanmariel You could be right although it would be jarring to start Awakening with little or no follow up to the end of AC. Maybe more short videos/teasers will be released prior to Awakening, but I think that approach is sort of weak. It is almost like saying "We couldn't shoe horn this into the time limitations of the theatrical release, so we will show these shorts to build hype." I think Cupanator3000 was correct that as long as it is enjoyable then all is good.

trokanmariel Daniels cannot be back. She knows too much. Now everything depends whether we are going to see David back or David pretending to be Walter. I think we got enough of the latter in Covenant, so it will be just David in the open.  That means Tennessee will be gone as well.

joylitt

I'll raise my glass to that :) 

"Regarding the Engineers' culture, what if instead of leaving it shrouded in mystery you show it but making it so weird that is hard to comprehend..."

I'm down with that as long as it's executed right. Whatever Ridley has in store I'm sure we'll be in for a treat.

I also don't think we'll be seeing Daniels or Tennessee either if the ending of A:C meant anything.

Ridley Scott has apparently confirmed that Waterston and McBride will be back, but at this stage it's difficult to say if their return will be a red herring; bringing the crew members back would likely hurt the symbolism of Covenant, but it's not a foregone conclusion that bringing them back would be bad. 

How the hell would they get out of their pods? 

id agree about not killing daniels off between movies like they did with shaw but I say this only so we can see how she is going to be used in davids experiments. for me she cannot live for both the good of the story and the fact that her character sucked. the character was just awful imo and ended up just being another member of the crew as far as I was concerned. shaw had more direct connection to the prequel storyline.

my advice to RS would simply be to give the engineers a real meaty in depth backstory and to not show them in the same weak and easily dispatched species they have been portrayed as so far. iv pretty much given up on the rest of the film so all I want is for the engineers to be able to play their part and be given a respectful place in the movie.

I for one if Daniels and Tennessee will be back, I'll straight out skip the movie without a second doubt (even now I am very skeptical of what story is left to be told in the prequel series). I am in the minority that don't want to see her/them being experimented upon.

I think we need to see what david does especially with daniels to tie into the next stage of the xeno evolution. its obvious ridley is going with the 'david created the type of xeno we see in alien' path (which I hate with a passion) and given that the xeno in AC is not the same, there has to be something that david does to create the next form of xeno so I think we need the holes filled in. we didn't get any concrete answers in AC as to what he did to shaw and I don't see them being able to just skip the process a second time.

ali81

But is it not obvious from the fact that this xeno is less of a robot (without the tubes and such) that a synth will merge somehow with the "beast". The perfect candidate is David himself. Do we need to see this? No, because it is predictable and unoriginal.

So what he does to Daniels it is whatever. 

red0guy If a flashback to Shaw is used in Awakening, perhaps the flashback can be used for the benefit of Daniels and her connection to David

Is it known that David brought black goo on board?  Did I miss that in the movie?  If no, then creating a queen won't be on the menu for the next film.  

What worries me is that we will get another AI-focused movie. Now the damage is done but they can at least try to reduce it. Some people might like the focus on David, I don't. Fassbender plays the role well but it should be about the human characters.

Prometheus was more balanced in that aspect and David wasn't as evil as in Alien Covenant. Alien Covenant was good until it became the David show. They can keep him but put him more in the background compared to Alien Covenant to give more room for interesting human characters.

It should be more about the humans and they should be better done compared to AC and Prometheus. More character development sure and I also like that you mention the Engineers but they need to be made better compared to Prometheus. Before Alien Covenant I imagined an Engineer city with military stuff, religious ceremonies, and so on. The small things with the Engineers was actually interesting in AC so I hope that we will see more of that. Hopefully they will make the Engineers menacing and not like everyday people.

Keep the character development in the movie, not in clips on the Internet. This goes for the main characters so I hope that it won't do the same mistake as they did with AC. When you get more character development in a clip on the www compared to the movie you know something is very wrong.

Daniels and Tennessee could be kept in the movie but they need to be better written compared to AC. Maybe they could add some stuff to their personalities to make them more interesting. I am not sure how that would be done, I am not a script writer.

Getting the general audience to watch it is probably what is the most important when it comes to getting money to Fox so we will get another one. A lot of people that like the alien movies might watch it but they might not be that many compared to the numbers of potential moviegoers in general. I don't have an answer to how this will be done but it is something to think about.

Big Dave: I would have preferred if David wouldn't have had anything to do with the Xeno. I am happy that Shaw was handled the way she was. She wasn't as bad in the Crossing compared to Prometheus though.

The Engineers could be interesting but it is a bit disappointing that they are humanoid. I wish that they would have been more different, like space aliens or at least not as human like but that could change if they get them right in the next movie.

". . .  but they can merely Change David as a Re-creator of the Xenomorph and have him Evolve something that actually ends up being less Xenomorph than evolving more Xenomorph."

I wouldn't mind that. They idea of the Xeno as a result of a mad android just makes me so disappointed. I agree with Joylitt when he says that they need to change the focus.

Joylitt: "Regarding the Engineers' culture, what if instead of leaving it shrouded in mystery you show it but making it so weird that is hard to comprehend..."

I think that it would make a lot of sense and it would also follow the idea of Giger in that it will be difficult to tell exactly what it is. We didn't know a lot about the SJ after we saw Alien or the Xeno for that matter.

2) The Ultramorph idea was a Xenomorph type Organism Birthed from a Engineer, thus the Deacon is a Ultramorph to a extent.

Will we see Engineer Chest Busters? maybe.. but i think this would be saved until the connecting movie to Alien, if they are still going this route...

Will we see Xenomorphs that look like the Ultramorph Concepts? I really do hope so...