Engineer power

Great topic, I'm featuring this!

dark nebula

brilliant topic. nice n original. I love the sources u use. fire and stone was awesome and portrays the engineers exactly the way I believe they should be. strong badass beings who take no shit and are a match for anything even hand to hand including the xeno. RS himself even stated the engineers are an evil highly aggressive species yet they look like pussies ur granny could beat up. iv got the hard back fire and stone book and I couldn't put it down. some movie directors could learn a thing or 2 from the people involved in putting it together.

and river of pain. WAW. best alien book iv ever read. love the whole trilogy but the scene u mention, inside the derelict when newts mum and dad go in had my imagination spinning out of control asking what happened? I so want to see something like that on the big screen. an engineer juggernaught becomes infested and the engineers have to deal with them sounds awesome to me. if we don't get a straight up engineers v xenomorph scene done properly by the end of the prequels, someone take Ridley out into the woods and put him down as u would an old dog. put him and the rest of us out our misery.   

If we don't complain a lot and make the studio change their minds, we would get what we want. Originally Prometheus was supposed to be a direct prequel to Alien, with humans vs xenomorphs vs engineers, but the studio came in and wanted to dial away from alien and focus more on the engineers. The fan base was divided and each has its own expectations. 

Prometheus 2 was supposed to focus more on engineers, but because of the mixed fan reaction of Prometheus, and a lot of people compared the film with Jon Spaiht's version of the script and said how much it would have been a better film if they went with that script, this I think (and that alien 5 hype) caused the studio and Ridley to realize people wanted an alien film with xenomorphs.

Ridley said if I remember correctly, that the AC sequel will be the war of the worlds type of thing. Which I think would be humans vs xenomorphs vs engineers. David unleashing his final creation and Engineers unleashing their 10+ foot genetically engineered versions of themselves into action (SJ size).

This I can sorta imagine like from a CGI movie Resident evil damnation, a battle between humans, lickers, and tyrants.

Xenomorphs=Lickers.

Engineers=Tyrants

VIDEO (Tyrant vs Lickers and humans) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MzsYTxX2IQ&feature=youtu.be

Indeed RS did kind of say he would be heading for a War of the Worlds...

I think this is kind of his ambition, so that the prequels open up this kind of Scenario... i am not sure the sequel would be quite this, but then RS had mentioned that 3-4 Parties would be arriving which by arriving i think we can rule out David, Colonist and Xenomorphs.

So 3-4 additional arriving parties could be interesting, but then maybe RS also meaning that it would be about 3-4 parties total and not actually 3-4 that are at Origae-6 after David arrives but 3-4 parties that end up at Origae-6 that are NOT there as of the end of Alien Covenant.

I think a eventual War of the Worlds sounds interesting but would surely conflict the events of ALIENS on wards.... which is what has got me thinking before..

IS Ridley Scott Pondering Rebooting ALIENS on-wards?  we have to remember Alien is 17 years odd after Alien Covenant, David will not arrive at Origae-6 until 10 years prior to Alien and we can safely assume Origae-6 is NO WHERE near LV-426

So when is all said and done... the connecting movie to ALIEN could take place within what 2-5 years prior to ALIEN as far as how long the Derelict has been there..

so any massive War of the Worlds, the company knows about LV-223, Origae-6 and Planet 4 from Davids Advent Message... In-continuity with the Alien Franchise..

would not be a problem if Aliens on wards DID NOT HAPPEN

If this was a idea, i dont think it would be a good one as removing Aliens from Canon would upset at least 50% of the Fanbase maybe much much more..... and i doubt Disney would do that.

More Chance Disney would Re-boot the Prequels if i am honest.

A special topic

A special topic Dark Nebula.
Interesting to deal with the theme of engineers and their culture, I am fascinated by their bare-handed combat without any kind of weapons.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

I think the way things have set up as far as the movies go, shows us the Engineers are FAR from Super Human...  they have been reduced from Concept (15ft Alien Humanoids) to a 6-7.5ft tall Humanoid Race, that comprise of Males, Females and Children.

I think we can assume these beings are stronger than a Human, but certainly by no means FAR more Stronger, i think a Planet 4 Engineer vs Predator in Hand-to-Hand Combat with no Weapons or Weapons would be a even battle.

I think what Alien Covenant introduces us to is these Engineers could be very very Ancient and have Evolved themselves Technologically and Genetically to the point of the FAR Stronger LV-223 Variety..... which may have came at a Great Hubris.

And so the Engineers maybe turned they backs on the ways of their past...  knowing that with greater Technological Power and Knowledge came a Great Responsibility that they just was not ready for.

The Engineer height was reduced to a more manageable height, because it would be too complicated to have a 15-foot tall albino walking around.

In star trek, for example, there are a lot of humanoid species same size as humans but are much stronger (Romulans for example).

The planet 4 Engineers are probably 6-8 feet tall and I'm guessing are stronger than humans (not as strong as LV-223 ones). But the LV-223 Engineers are a completely different story. 

From the film and the comics, it's not only their great strength but also the barehanded combat and the focuses on the knowledge of weak body spots. 

In Prometheus the last engineer killed Ford by delivering a fatal blow to her chest, crushing her sternum and sending her flying backward, she died instantly. 

He also threw Jackson against the wall that he broke his spine in two instantly.

In comics, the engineer killed a bunch of xenomorphs with his bare hands, (by the looks of their bodies) either by snapping their necks or backs because there were no holes in their bodies (we know what happens when xenomorph is wounded). In the battle between the engineer and predator, not only was the engineer too strong, during the fight, he was also targeting predator's joints, and thus weakening and enabling the predator to fight.

The same thing in Blade runner 2049, not only are replicants much stronger than humans, their fighting style is fast, precise and also focuses on the knowledge of weak body spots.

My jaw dropped in the cinema when some scavenger attacked officer K, and K just grabbed him, lifted him up and broke his back like Bane did to Batman.

Dark Nebula Been a long time since playing RE 2, but yes, the lickers and Tyrant definitely remind me of the Protomorph and a mean Engineer.

Certainly.. they had revised the Engineers to 9-10 feet tall at the time of working on Prometheus...  This obviously changed once again during Production most likely.  But some elements seem to keep in scale with the Planned 9-10ft tall Race.

The Engineer Head a Perfect Example the scale of the Head would be the Scale of a 9-10ft tall Humanoid.

It really is a shame that RS prefers to tackle things more Practical at times, even when its necessary to maybe use some Trickery.  The Lord of the Rings, The Hobit and even Game of Throwns have shown you can pull off making actors appear taller or smaller compared to their counterparts.

And so pulling of a 8-9ft Engineer/Space Jockey would not have been to hard...

Well you know what would be really powerful? Engineers in Engineer power-loaders...

(would not post the other day so posting here)

EDIT:  Just looked and quickly done some rough scale work, and i estimate the Engineer Head to belong to a 8.5ft Tall Engineer maybe pushing near 9ft Tops.

My average actual estimate using various views and relation to a few cast members is 8ft 9" approx.

@Ignorantguy

I would be up for that ;)

Imagine some kind of HR Giger/Engineer Bio-Mechanical Combat Suit/Tank Mechanized Armour?

Now that would be very interesting..... maybe something for Ridley Scotts War of the Worlds Alien Franchise plans?

I don't have the best eyesight...

According to the production crew, the mummified engineer corpses in the plaza were all supposed to be 7-8ft.

Because most of the corpses were lying on their knees, differently arranged, and of different camera angles a lot of people concluded they are human-scaled.

In Prometheus, the Engineer actors were 7ft+ tall, and they used different camera angles and other tricks to make them look bigger.

And let's bring an end to the Engineer height war.

@BigDave

I was only making fun of the fist fighting antics presented in the comics ...

But in all seriousness I feel that the Engineers would rather use something more akin to Protoss dragoons and stalkers from Starcraft than tanks. I mean war machines made by fusing a disabled/volunteering soldier to a mechanical contraption, like a Gigeresque sphinx.

Dark Nebula It appears the Engieneer is drinking Tranya?

*gets a closer look*

From what I can tell, by the design of the bottle and the color of the fluid, looks like he's drinking Gatorade drink *shrugs*

Or some similar drink.

"And let's bring an end to the Engineer height war"

Certainly think we have to agree and accept a smaller height, it is kind of interesting they gave us the 7-7.5ft (depends on Human working on the Sculpture next to it )Tall Engineer Anatomical Study which puts that Engineer at about the same height as Ian Whyte's Engineer.   Because at least it gives us something thats not contradictory to Prometheus... because well to build a exact scale Replica of the Prometheus Set (Pilot Room) the Cryo-Pods are suited for 7.5ft tall beings, so making larger ones so that Dr Shaw looked small inside in the Crossing would have meant a Larger Scale than Prometheus.

The various Engineer Bodies in the Plaza depending on shots, seemed to show some appeared to be about Human Height so 6ft Ball Park, some seemed maybe 6.5-7ft.... but there was a few shots where some appeared to be about 8ft tall.

And the Interesting thing with the Planet 4 Engineers is the Actual Live Action Scene showed us they had varying heights, what appeared to be Females, and maybe younger Engineers and some with slightly different skin tones.

This could be why RS mentioned about how there are many version of us (Mankind) why cant there be many versions of them...   I think this comment does not have to be about the LV-223 Engineers vs Planet 4 ones... it could be..

But it could also apply to how Humans come in different sizes and skin tones and so WHY NOT the Engineers.

So indeed i think as far as Engineers we have seen goes, it seems we have been clearly shown these beings maybe have a Female Height of 6-6.5ft and a Male of 7-8ft and so indeed the Average Engineer would indeed be about the 7ft mark or just over, so Ian Whyte would actually be your typical Average Engineer... like a say a Guy Pearce is about average Male Human Height.

We could still have the issue regarding the Space Jockeys 13-15ft Actual Height, but this could just have to be accepted as a Oversight..

But we could be introduced to a related Race who are taller, or maybe as we Humans can have a few who are 7ft to 8 ft tall, then why cant the Engineers have some 12ft tall folk too.

@ignorantGuy

Still is a interesting point though.... we really dont know for sure what kind of Defensive Technology these beings posses..

Alien Engineers they appeared to have some kind of Devices that threw out like a Invisible Force that would take out opponents, some kind of Energy/Anti Gravity Weapon that basically allows them to attack opponents like a Jedi/Sith kind of Force Push attack.

Prometheus and Alien Covenant appears to show us these guys dont appear to have any Weaponry at all apart from the Black Goo, which again i ponder is actually not intended as a Bio-Weapon, just that it has been used as such.

The Comics show they have Weapons... and we have to ask is it a bit odd such a Advanced Species have never invented or used any kind of Weaponry in its past?

So indeed it allows our imaginations to run, and certainly Bio-Mechanical Walkers like the AT-ST/AT-ST in Star Wars etc would be interesting.

Those Engineer anti-gravity gloves from Alien: Engineers are indeed interesting, maybe they were designed for specific tasks. For example, carrying and placing ovomorphs/urns without disturbing them so they remain intact. And they might come handy in combat.

I can imagine a scenario where a xenomorph jumps from above to attack the Engineer only to be stopped in mid-air and snapped like a twig by the Engineer who wears these gloves.

"maybe they were designed for specific tasks."

Absolutely....  the Engineers were basically Ancient Alien Theory... a lot of people question how the Pyramids could be moved by Ancient Man and so Aliens did it lol

Edward Leedskalnin's  CORAL CASTLE etc  was a like Garden of many Stone Buildings and Arrangements that he positioned all on his own, and some QUESTION how?

Theories are did he gain Knowledge of the Ancients, like what the Egyptians used, or Knowledge from Aliens/Gods.  Some speculate he moved the Stones using some kind of Anti-Gravity and Magnetic Device.

So Certainly the Engineer Power Gauntlets could be similar,  i actually like the CONCEPT/IDEA that the Engineers maybe had NO WEAPONS  well not really.

But their Technology that allows them to Move Objects, Create Great Monuments could be used as a Weapon like we see in Alien Engineers.  and once again their Terra-forming Technologies could affect a Worlds Climate and Poles and thus could be used as a Weapon... just as Persay the GREAT FLOOD was used as a Weapon.

The Clues in Prometheus/Alien Covenant had led me to ponder the Juggernaughts and Urns/Goo are just a Creation Tool for Seeding Worlds... But a Tool that has devastating outcomes..  "sometimes to create one must first destroy"

And so any Seeding Technology that can Evolve/Create Life, that is infected with a Organism with Parasitical Tendencies could be used as a Bio-Weapon.

So indeed maybe the Engineers do not have Weapons as such, because they feel NO-NEED for them...   Because they simply feel that their Creations will pose NO THREATS..

It is still Logical to think at some time these beings had been more Ancient like our Ancestors... so they needed some Weapons to HUNT for Food.   Like Ancient Mankind,  and maybe at some point they had conflict with some in their own RACE which leads to Evolution of Weapons... like Ancient Mankinds Creation of the Sword and Shield and then the Evolution of Weapons from this.

Unless... there is some RACE above the Engineers who passed on what was needed, and then we have to ask would such a Race who created the Engineers not have any kind of Weaponry?

"And let's bring an end to the Engineer height war."

I bet that topic will be brought up again some time.

Dark Nebula: A humans versus xenos versus Engineers could work, it depends on how you do it. A problem is tat many ave their own opinions so it is a thing were people are divided. Hopefully we will have more Engineers in the next movie. As far as canon they should keep Alien 1 to 3 otherwise it would suck.