Alien Awakening Timeline

Those themes are interesting BigDave but we will likely only get a short second flute scene to touch on them. 

Critters5: I didn't hate Tennesee I just think that he wasn't very well-written as far as character traits are concerned. Tennesee was just one of many characters that should have been written a lot better.

First, I just can't see that actor as much as I love him in comedy's in a serious role. Second, like you said there was just no character development other than he wears a cowboy hat. 

Great video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9iIoz8MYYc

Big Dave: Sorry but I disagree with you, I don't like the route that they are taking. We already have two failed prequels so I can not understand how anyone can think that the route that they take is interesting. I am just scratching my head at that like "huh?" but that is not to say that I find those that like the direction to be dumb or so. Prometheus is better than Covenant IMO because David is better and he has less of a role although he is important, but that is just my opinion though.

Don't  take this like I am against new ideas, I think that the Engineers could have been alright if they are done well and if they make sense and I also like they they are trying new monsters and new environments. I  don't like how they are trying to make David the creator of the Xeno and I don't think that they have made a lot of well-done human characters. There are parts where I agree with them and there are parts where I agree with you.

Yes, David was  lot better written in Prometheus but they sort of ruined his character in AC. I like that he was sort of gray in Prometheus. To me the character is almost dead, I hope that they will at least reduce his screen time in the next movie and spend more time on better human characters otherwise they haven't learned their lesson about making better human characters. Hopefully he will be better written in the next movie. Don't make the same mistake again.

I like they idea of a space colony to start a new life like Daniels said it was just too bad that they messed up the characters. They don't have to be scientists or marines or what ever they have had before in the franchise.  Just write well done characters that feel natural (have more than two or three character traits) and that we can relate to, I don't think that is too much to ask for. You mention the marines, I think that a reason why I think that Alien and Alien 3 are better than Aliens is because those in prison and those at the Nostromo were civilians and not trained persons, therefore the odds were bigger. Alright now I think that I know a bit better why I think that the first one and Alien 3 are the best this far, I have never put it down on paper like that.

My guess from seeing the end of AC is that it will be difficult to keep Daniels and Tennessee alive. If David is not totally stupid or get a  huge case of hubris then I don't see how they will survive but we have seen bad writing before.

"so David then suggests that on Origae-6 he is prepared to allow Mankind to get a New Start, he could go on about how he was treated by Mankind, apart from Dr Shaw."

I doubt that Daniels and Tennessee would trust him enough to keep him alive, I wouldn't. Since he is not a human I wouldn't hesitate for a second to blow his head off after all that he has done, but that is how I would have solved it. You wrote unless they make a covenant but I don't see that as likely.

"If we are kind", I don't think that David understands what that means in practice since he can not feel emotions he might understand them though but this is something that we have discussed before I think at least. To me that means that David says (implied) "if you do as I want it will be a kind world (I won't kill you) ".

Yes I agree with what you say about killing two main characters, that would be strange. I would be very annoyed if they do the same mistake for the third time in a row about the characters being some background material to push the David story, that would make me upset. Having humans as pieces to drive the story forward is just so lame because then you don't care to give them any depth, which honestly sucks.

Sure artificial intelligence and tales of creation could be interesting but they got to have interesting characters for the story to work otherwise I do not care what the topic is, it gets boring. Yes David's psyche could be interesting but it will not work if they don't get the humans right.

Tales of creation could be done in an interesting way but you got to get the characters right, at least some of them. If he would only care as much for the human characters as he does for the themes and David.

"The Fact David when    he dies/becomes dis-activated will never have a Spiritual Soul that goes to a Higher Place... a Higher Pane of Existence...       David would simply become NOTHING".

Well humans have a psyche and are made of different material than synthetics. To me that is obvious, even though we can make robots that could be as close to humans as possible they will never become human. I understand that David wants to create, that was obvious in AC.

I think that humans have a soul/psyche although that is not to say that there is an afterlife which maybe it is.

"Going back to THE SOUL... if Humans have none, and when we Die that is it... but David can upload his AI into systems then it is DAVID who Ultimately has a ever lasting SOUL that Transcends to a Higher Pane of Existence."

I see what you mean but I disagree, a soul requires a higher mental function which is tied to humans and not synthetics so he can be a machine that can upgrade like you do with computer software but that is not the same as a soul/psyche because if that would be the case then a robot in a  factory could have  potential soul also. Maybe I did not make myself clear on this one but I hope that it is not too bad.

"Its these kinds of Themes RS i think is attempting to explore, and not merely Humans Create a Robot who goes a bit Mad and then wants to kill all Humans."

Alright but he hasn't done so very well this far.

Totally agree Characters do help, and indeed it appears Characters that just seem to be there to drive along plot points has been Prometheus and more so Alien Covenants undoing.

Dr Shaw was a Character they could have expanded on, you have a religious person who finds out her Faith is flawed, and the Gods they went to find are just advanced Humanoids who have a far worse Agenda and View on Mankind then she ever could have hoped... but she still holds on to her faith...  CLAIMING God would never try and hurt her and suggesting that so what if Holloway was right....  WHO created the Engineers then?  So she was still holding on to the chance that their is a GOD so she can somehow salvage her FAITH

Some fans was not interested in pursuing this, or finding out more about the Engineers and so hence the way they was both killed off. HOWEVER.... if Dr Shaw found out the Agenda and Truth and it proved that the God she was brought up to believe in is totally further from the TRUTH then Dr Shaw has NOTHING.. this means she could be become a very Broken Character, and potentially Go Mad, be Angry it left a lot to explore how such things would totally change her as a Character...  But alas... 

So she was killed off, and now i think the set up for the next movie does not bold well for Daniels at all, i was offering a few potential ideas of how Daniels can play a role in the next movie, by having a deal reached between her and David.

Otherwise if we look at it from DAVIDS POV which is what we had to do with AC and the reasons he did what he did, then a Daniels would certainly hamper any plans of Davids and so Logically he would subject her to Experiments and  Kill her off.... thats what makes sense because of how they ended ALIEN Covenant.. 

If Daniels was not aware Walter was David, then her Character could have gone on to develop, and then in future she finds out that David is Walter and reveal the shock and horror on her Face, but doing it in AC means they have written themselves into a corner with how she is to be used.

The themes of  SOUL is something RS is touching upon, we need to not look at it being a case that WE DO, but as a Question of Do We?   Everyone has their own opinions and Faith and what not when it comes down to Mankind, we could be no more than Biological Machines, Flesh and Blood and its our Memories, Emotions and Moral Compass that makes us what we are, these are all influenced by our experiences through life.

So when we die... we leave nothing...

This is something RS was trying to get to IMO, it was to raise things like is there or is there not a Soul... and can Robots have a Soul if indeed our Soul is just Memories, Experiences and Emotions. Which we could see to a good degree with CALL from Alien Resurrection.

Another thing RS was touching on is about Legacy..... if we have NO SOUL and when we Die thats it, then we only Live on in our Family/Next of kin (our Creations) other ways we live on is being remembered for our Deeds, and so you have Famous Leaders/Rulers like Past Kings and Queens, people who are remembered for their works be it ART, MUSIC, LITERATURE some Political and Heroic People will have a Legacy, some Dictators/Tyrants also be remembered for their Brutality.   All of these things are a LEGACY.

This in Part is shown in the Prologue, Peter Weyland is leaving a Legacy, when he is gone he would be remembered for his Legacy, and also the creation of David is his greatest Legacy.  Its why the Ozymandias Poem is in the movie, its to show that when Kings come and go, their Legacy is whats left behind, and great Monuments and Statues can be built to remember them by..... but eventually this disappears to dust, and then there is NOTHING...  Which indeed is very true.. if we look back at Ancient Mankind around 1000 + years ago and some Disaster killed off all of Mankind...   while the Buildings and Statues are left to remind anyone of who WE was....  many thousands of years time so say Half a Million years, there would be little or nothing left, Great Monuments like the Pyramids would look totally different in hundreds of thousands of years.

And so we see these things are setting up Davids thinking, and why he wishes to leave his own LEGACY

So a Big Problem is where do they take this?

The route they chosen has limited things...      Prometheus was like a central movie... on one hand it was to show the Space Jockey are the Engineers and the LV-223 outpost they experimented on and created the Black Goo which is related to the Xenomorph.  Prometheus left it open to go one of THREE ways.

1) Explore the Deacon and hope another Mission to LV-223 can reveal more about this place and how the Deacon connects to ALIEN

2) Go off to the Engineers Home World to explore their Agenda and History, are the Engineers at the top of the Hierarchy etc?

3) A movie set in Ancient Times to give the answers to either or both of those. Cover the LV-223 Outbreak or Space Jockey Event.

It appeared we was set for OPTION 2 but they had a U-Turn and now we have a movie set of prequels that will literally connect directly to ALIEN thus alternating the Time Line that was intended for a long time.  They way AC handled the Engineers, Davids creation of the Xenomorph and how he is now on a 7.5 year journey to Origae-6 does leave a limited direction the prequels will go.

Bigdave, that's a good point regarding Shaw's faith. I can't believe that was built up as a theme and Ridley never went further with it in AC he could have gotten real deep and had some scene wherein David says "where is your god now" as he begins his experiments and brings creation from Shaw's womb....

Bigdave,  I think soul should be explored more as David did seem to react in Prometheus when Weiland was saying David had no soul...

Bigdave, I wish AC was split into options 1 and 2 and had a run time of 3.5 hours LOTR styles but alas that will never happen. 

bigdave. I have heard the rumour of a covenant prequel very similar to what u mention above. its focused on the mission and someones desire to sabotage it. in truth, if this is the case, ill not be watching. that's not what the alien universe is about. if he wanted to explore the diversities of A.I, he should have done it well away from the franchise. he should have done something new and original. oh wait, he did Bladerunner. the alien franchise is about the beast. ok tone the beast down a bit in one of the movies and explore the engineers with a taste of the beast but to ditch it all for David's or the companies story? not for me. im actually really gutted and deflated by what RS is doing to the franchise. I can see myself just disregarding AC and follow up films and just look at the franchise as alien through to Prometheus and sit in hope that someone with passion and vision for the franchise comes along and takes off from where Prometheus left off. it isn't perfect but it laid the foundations for the sequel to be an epic. I am actually asking myself as I type, ''how the hell could someone as talented screw the sequel up soooo badly when it was laid on a plate for them'' 

The one Prequel was the ADF Prequel book that deals with the Covenant Mission Preparations, this however wont never become a movie and i dont think we will ever see any prequels to AC or Prometheus, we may get some dialect, flash backs to explain stuff from the past.  Unless the Engineers Turn up and basically are as talkative as the Predators lol (ps i dont mean the new Movie)

The Problem we have is where does the Franchise Go...

Here is the Basic Set Up.

*David is in control of the Ship, it appears he is off to Origae-6

*Daniels is aware David is David, she surely wont let him do what he pleases.

*With Daniels Dead, Tennessee would be suspicious

*The company eventually find out what David has done/plans as he sent them messages.

*Origae-6 is very likely uninhabited

*The Covenant still has nearly 2000 colonist and 1000 Embryos

*David has just TWO Face Huggers

*The Engineers Arrive at Planet 4 and discover what has happened and are not pleased.

*The Engineers will be one of a number of Parties on their way to Origae-6

*Davids Experiments end up in their Thousands on a Engineer Ship a long way from Origae-6

Thats a Pretty Linear route to take a movie never mind TWO.

Bigdave, one or two films will get funding in your opinion? 

I think that is actually the BIGGEST Question of them all.... 

Where do they go now, how many movies would it take as if the set up is TWO and RS makes the next one very little regarding the Xenomorph and more about AI and this does not sit well with Fans and also Bombs a bit or disappoints at the BOX Office, then it leaves FOX in a very difficult place.

Do they then invest in another movie and hope this one recovers some of the financial burden or do they just leave the Franchise alone with no Answers to the events of Alien as far as HOW/WHEN those Eggs get on the Derelict.

They would have to show enough IMO in the next movie, so that if they dont do a 3rd, then we can gather enough information to paint a picture of what happened.  They also maybe have to have the next movie end in a way that leaves it open... rather than needing a sequel much like how Alien Covenant has left it that it needs one.

Just in case the Next Movie proves to be a disappointment and turns more fans off the Franchise, it would be a shame if FOX just leave it as it is....   Imagine if FOX said they are making NO sequels to Alien Covenant.

The Purpose of the U-Turn was to  connect to Alien and Introduce the Xenomorph, by brushing Dr Shaw and the Engineers under the carpet its made it harder to go back and do a movie that covers the Engineers more than other themes/plots.   Now they have gone the path of the literal events leading to Alien they need to stick to this.

A good topic, and lots of interesting views!

Personally, I think RS's age and the moderate performance of Pr & A:C means that we may well only see one more movie directed by RS. Scott's a busy man, with multiple projects on the go, and it takes time to get a big movie planned, shot and in theatres. I'd like to see more than one, but I predict the next one will be his swan song in the Alien universe.

More than anything, I'd like to see him make a movie free of the influence of fans, producers or money-men. Prometheus was more interesting than Covenant, despite its failings. Covenant was fun but pulled in too many directions to hold itself together. If Ridley is free to make the movie HE wants to make, we may not get a movie we had hoped for or thought we wanted, but we will get one that takes on a journey full of surprises, visual beauty and dramatic punch. . .

Great points Bigdave. A few nightmarish possibilities. 

Cheers Critters5 i have 1-2 ways i would deal with it all....  lets just see if Logan is just as imaginative

@murnau

Excellent Points...  indeed RS is getting Old, and i think FOX either should give RS Full Reigns... or have someone else come in and use their ideas so if the next movie disappoints and least we can figure where it went wrong.

I think RS and Logan had a rough idea where to take us next, Logan had apparently had a draft finished at the time AC was released, but then another interview claimed they are working on it... But all comments seem to hint at seeing the Next Installment in 2019 which would be fitting with the 40th Anniversary of Alien.

But for this to be TRUE.. we would have to start hearing  some more News/Pre-Production by Spring 2018 as in One Interview made after the Pre-showings of AC he said that they would be shooting within 14 months which is July 2018

But the Reaction to AC may have prompted them to look at a few changes.

Yes I think that the way that they have treated the characters like pieces in a chess-game is probably the worst of the ways imaginable that they could have chosen. I don't find any excuse for this, it is just bad. One time might be acceptable but to totally fail with that twice it makes me wonder what really goes on. Maybe they can look at other movies where the characters have been better written and find inspiration from there. They just have to find genres where they usually have well written characters that they can get inspired by, I mean they are movie makers right? It is not that they should have to go back to school to re-learn that I hope although Prometheus and AC makes me seriously wonder.

A religious person that discovers that her faith doesn't help much is a potentially interesting character but they should have written her better before they released Prometheus. If I don't get positive or interesting perspective of a character in the beginning I get bored or annoyed and so I don't get an interest for that character, that is what happened with Shaw. This is even more important in horror movies since it is about that person's psyche, how that person reacts and thinks.

It could have been interesting if they would have written Shaw better in Prometheus but since she came off as annoying and irrational that didn't really help. They could at least have given her some rationality and some likable traits but I didn't find much of that, unfortunately.

The case with the Engineers is a bit different, their purpose was too vague even though it could have been interesting. This could have been explained with better clues and subtitles to when Weyland and David spoke to the Engineer that was in the cryo-chamber or what ever the word is (the thing that was like a coffin). It is a mistake to automatically assumed that people will be interested if you keep things vague, that was a big problem with Prometheus if you don't watch it many times.

Yes I see that you wrote about something of a covenant between her and David. I wouldn't trust David for a second if I would be Daniels. I would try to shoot him as quickly as possible because he is dangerous. How will they use the character of Daniels now? Will they kill her as they did with Shaw? Will she be out of the picture? Will they show us a dead Daniels in the next movie? I don't know. If she will be dead then they got to give us a really well written lead character in the next movie, hopefully there is room for that. By looking at the ending of AC I wonder if they thought about that at all?

Living in the minds of other people as memories is a possibility but that is not like living physically.

Look at ye mighty and despair, I understand what that meant in the context of the Engineers but I didn't think about Weyland in that scene but it makes sense. So if David wants to leave his legacy the wouldn't that mean that his would also be forgotten as many things that people leave after them when they die do?

Sure they could have showed more of the Engineers but they just got bombed out of the picture. I hope that we will see more of the Engineers in the next movie so that the city we saw in AC was just one of many cities in their civilization. Maybe there were Engineers at other ides of that planet that were not affected by the goo. Hopefully we will see their home-world, that would be interesting but they got to get that right though. Perhaps they can look at how Lord of the Ring did with different environments and that? I think that this is a place where they can find inspiration from and mix that with some sort of Giger aesthetic. The Engineers could be really interesting with a clear connection to the Xeno (that could really make David envious or what ever that is with an android, ha ha).

I hope that the next movie would be more about the Engineers and their connection to the Xeno. They don't have to show the Xeno a lot, I mean Alien didn't do that but they could give it a bigger role. Another movie focused on AI would suck.

Oh yeah about incoming Engineers, I hope that they will go berserk for David and kill him. It would be interesting to see how the Engineers would reply to the destruction at the planet where David was. How will they find out who did this? Do they have advanced technology that we don't know about? Those are not rhetorical questions I am honestly curious to see how they will do this.

David as the leader “a king has reign and then he dies” so maybe this will mean that the humans kill David? I hope so. Maybe he will manage to murder some of the colonists using his monsters but it would be nice if the monsters would turn on him. Look at this as being a case of hubris and punishment and what ever you mentioned as being themes.

Maybe the feeling will be a bit like Alien 3, that would be a nice nod to it. A second version of Alien 3 would be lame but there is a difference to be inspired by and to copy. I think that they could find some good parts from 1-3 and throw into the next movie although I hope that we will see a new one.

A Dave cave? Ta-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da Dave cave! (Batman melody, LMAO!) Maybe it could be like death cave like a lab of an evil being. This is probably not something new (they idea) but it could work if it is being done right. Maybe he could use some Engineer things if possible.

Some flashbacks could be alright but only if they are necessary to the story. This is something that they managed well with in AC to its credit.

“... certainly i feel the Engineers turn up on Origae-6 towards the End... which would lead us to the Next Movie.“

I think that could be a fitting ending of the movie.

I don't want David to kill the Engineers, I would like the Engineers to kill David.

“The Backlash for Alien Covenant could indeed have him and FOX reconsider what plans they had at the time of Alien Covenants Release.“

Hopefully, if it means less artificial intelligence/robots and more and better human characters. A bit more about the Engineers would be nice. If they will make the next movie more about AI and less about humans I will become very disappointed, I would probably throw it out of the window figuratively speaking. If I would have to choose between a movie with Xenos and one about AI's I would choose the Xenos but the humans are the most important thing. The reason is the way that they have written about the AI's in the prequels, it has gotten too much attention which is bad. If they will make a movie like that then it deserves to bomb if you ask me because I would not be interested in it.

“They would have to show enough IMO in the next movie, so that if they dont do a 3rd, then we can gather enough information to paint a picture of what happened”

Sure but then that part of the movie has got to be well done, without spelling it all out if you ask me. I would prefer an answer that is vague compared to one that is spelled out and is done in a bad way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1A7IDUKPqI

"How will they find out who did this?"

This is a good point, one that logically has to be what can the Engineers make from the Carnage, a lot depends on what they know about the Black Goo and LV-223, or what they dont know.  They would then also come across Human Remains, those Eggs, all of Davids Experiments.

if they investigate the Crashed Juggernaught, they would discover it came from LV-223 and discover what appeared to be TWO Humans on board.

But the biggest clue for those Engineers would have to be the discovery of Walter, then they would noticed he looks Human but is not, and i think logically it has to come from Walter to how those Engineers could ever possibly know where David is now off too.

Characters are important, Prometheus and Alien Covenant they was just throw away ones apart from the Survivors...  but the way AC ended does not bold well for Daniels and Tennessee, which is why good character development has to come from either the Colonist which means we have to see a Colony set up where these guys are none the wiser about what happened in AC until they discover really what happened and that Walter is not Walter.

Or it has to come from a incoming company Ship...

But the set up now is to link back to ALIEN, they have to have some Human Characters Survive to move onto the next movie for it to work, so it will be tricky for how this is handled, because if the Engineers turn up we have to ask would they want any Humans to Survive?