Prometheus : Theodicy

 Sounds very interesting. Thanks for the share!

Good luck Michelle, but the crew of the Covenant consisted of 7 pairs and 1 roybot, and only 2 survive for sure (Major Kong and the lady with bad wig), and the roybot is missing in action (hopefully is also dead).

@dk My Pleasure.

@ignorantGuy Quite Right thanks it should read cast not crew 7 couples David and Walter = 16 with three going somewhere and Walter(ish) missing in action. 

Michelle Johnston In a friendly dispute over semantics, that is not 100% true as you forgot that Guy from Memento (pun intended). It is also true that he is not credited and is a casualty of an other movie...

ignorantGuy

Love it. I am actually thinking I should have said "they all die well mostly." Muther is still with us but they lost 47 colonists and 16 second generation embryos.

The most interesting slip is freudian but then she didn't. She went some place beautiful.  

Michelle Johnston That is what you choose to believe... But what the hell means second generation in that case? Because they will be born in the colony will they be humanity 2.0 ? Or are they clones?

The thirteen deaths require narrative which yields one answer, David is mad and has fashioned the Xenomorph. 

A lot of those deaths in AC were executed from the Neomorph independent of David. AC deaths deserve individual narratives but seemed pretty random in the movie if I understand your point.

dk Let's play the semantics game. With exception of Mr expensive cameo, all died because of David as they were lured there by his signal. But let's do some counting. 1 dies burned, 4 are killed by the black monster, 1 is killed by David, 1 blows her self up. So there 6 people directly killed by the white monster, which is the minority, therefore not even a lot.

ignorantGuy Good point. I would correct myself in stating that the Neomorph kills were not directly guided by David- perhaps a happy accident since he despised people at any rate. At best he killed by proxy since they spawned from the black goo bombs.

However, the Neomorph seemed to recognize David as some sort of organism to not attack as did the xenomorph.

This could be a good thing. As long as it is tied to the Xenos in some way or at least have some monsters, Engineers, and have good human characters then I will be interested in reading it. I don't think that it will be worse than Covenant.

I will answer some of the points raised because I do not want to waste peoples time nor have something which is a passion given a hard time simply because it does not fit people view of what stories should look like which share DNA with ALIEN.

Prometheus

Peter Weyland is seeking eternal life by journeying to meet our makers.

Elizabeth Shaw is in search of her creators.

They arrive on one of the moons of Calpamos.

Weyland discovers there is nothing and dies.

Elizabeth discovers they created us why did they want to destroy us and the noble pilots stop the Engineer from completing what was gonna happen 2,000 years ago.

David a trophy robot feared by mankind watches on in bemusement and with a degree of mischievousness whilst responding to the demands of Weyland.

No body does anything exceptionally stupid in my version other than being subject to a more general hubris of thinking turning up here will get them what they want. Before they land they know there is no life. By the time Elizabeth has had a Caesarean it is obvious this place is bad form but Weyland is gonna die (Vickers) anyway so he carries on. Everything that happens in Prometheus is down to Weyland thats the advantage of writing the story through the eyes of his proxy. It makes the good guys and their reaction stronger and more reactive and plausible.  

In the first part you will discover the link between the Xenomorph and the Pyramids. 

That the mutagen is deadly through its effects on Dr Holloway and Elizabeth Shaw.

Regained

In the second part you will discover :-

1) The destination and purpose of the lone Juggernaut whose pilot is an Engineer.

2) The meaning of the introductory scene in Prometheus.

3) The relationship between the ingested catalyser at the front end of Prometheus and the mutagen on Davids finger, its origins and applications. As Damon said when he speculated on the direction of Prometheus 2 there were no monsters in the follow up and neither are there in my vision.

4) The meaning of the incident 2,000 years ago on the Calpamos moon.

My point about 13 deaths is simple. We spend an hour getting to know these people at a fairly superficial level and then another hour seeing them all killed and we learn nothing  other than David nuked the place its causing a lot of pathogenic outcomes and he has created the Xenomorph which I am not interested in and monster centric people disapprove of.

If you are going to grow a story film by film in a genuinely symphonic way you have to have the audacity to stop making the same movie over and over again with different or adjusted monsters.

My story doesn't spend any time getting to know characters because we know them already we can then watch how they respond to different situations and learn more about the truth of the mythos we have come into. Their challenges are a mixture of each other, themselves and what they discover and how to respond to it. Like Prometheus the stakes are huge but they are existential and do not involve breaking bones and stuff emerging from bodies (mostly).    

A genuine sequel provides the opportunity to sit down and think who is this person, what would they do, how would they react to each other and because many questions were left unanswered what does that mean. However as I say elsewhere I am not constrained as the film makers are to meet certain franchise expectations. 

If you like think Ripley/Clemens in the assembly cut just being real not a relationship and then it goes all pear shared in that regard because Clemens dies and we have to chase the beast around the building. That does not happen in my story. 

Michelle Johnston this sounds like a fascinating concept to attempt, and I would love to read it!!

@IRaptus

Super. I will PM any one who responds to the thread with interest. Your use of the word concept is very encouraging.

The point about Prometheus is it was an ideas movie within the same Universe as ALIEN. The concept was the proposition of an Engineered creation and the story was how it went wrong and one of the side effects of that wrongness is the creature.

One thing I am considering at the moment is the cycle itself went wrong. It was designed to do A but if allowed would have got away and done B and B is merely hinted at by Kanes's child or is that Cain's child. One of the lovely design mysteries of the creature is it could not procreate in the theatrical version of ALIEN. (Cocoons and Queens not withstanding). So it could itself be punishment. Its that kind of ideas approach that I am pondering as I plan to make a direct link with the creature and the Pyramids. If it cannot procreate then it might have a thematic link with David. Come to that Elizabeth cannot create so all three feed back into a creation mythos and whether sub creation is a sin oh and what is sin in an Engineered creation.

There is also something else which is nice about extending a story naturally. It can have a morning after feel where everyone has a chance to think over and deal with some of their earlier behaviour feeding back into the original events.     

I hope there are some scary parts in the story.  To me, a part of being within the ALIEN franchise is to induce some fear into people.  Of course, in a book format, it is difficult.  I guess in a book, the form of fear takes on the disguise of surprise or shock.

Sadly I can't offer advice on that for the Alien franchise since the only movie novel I have read was Alien: Covenant.  The problem with this is that I didn't find Alien: Covenant scary at all in theaters.  It had some intense moments, but nothing that made me want to look away, made me jump, or even gave me the feeling that I didn't want to be a part of the plot anymore because it is scary.

Every other ALIEN movie had at least one memorable scene that I have found scary in my adult age.  If I could just forget exactly what happens, I'm sure I would still find those scenes scary.  Of course when I saw the movies when I was a child, the movies were more terrifying.  

Cool!

I'd love to read this Michelle.

I like big ideas and Regained seems packed with them.

I had intended to give things a break until I was about to launch both elements. I have also realised people can approach you on Wordpress and you have no idea who they are. At this stage I think its much better to carry on finish the entire project and then offer it personally to those who ask in whatever format they prefer, for now I will need to have some sense of who the person joining in is, should they wish to do so.  

@I Moon Girl

Most of those who have read it and been read to had no idea where it was going so it was a shock to end up "There". But thats an intellectual shock not frightened to bits shock. I say this in the forward but I have tried to place the story in a landscape which feels normal but in terms of whats going on is not. So they aren't somewhere which has suddenly gone dead (Aliens) and come up against terror.  

For me there are two terrifying elements to Prometheus :-

1) That creation requires sacrifice. Its not cuddly and thoughtful. Its tough and unsentimental. 

2) The invasion of Elizabeth's womb. 

@MonsterZero

Again its the ideas thing. Just two to ponder. 

If the Calpamos Moon represents Paradise Lost (Pietro Scalia) then what does Paradise look like, is there such a thing and from whose point of view. If we went there would we recognise it as such. Clearly the Engineers were not happy with it and something happened.

Kane stuck his head over the Ovoid and out pops a creature whilst they are having a late brunch. It may or may not have life in it as an icon which drives a franchise but where was the Engineer Craft going with its cargo approximately 2,000 years ago (Prometheus 2012 version) and what was the intended target of the Ovoids. It is extremely unlikely that Kane was the intended host. Is this relevant. Whom might the intended host have been and if that is relevant what is the creature.     

"At this stage I think its much better to carry on finish the entire project"

Okay. 

"what does Paradise look like.."

Awesome...I know what my paradise would look like...But an Engineers??

Kane and the Ovoid.

Where did the Ovoids come from!? Did the creature burst from the Space Jockey lay them? Or are they typical Engineer traps? Or?   ?

@MonsterZero

Entire project 

Today I was thinking about some of the ideas in "Regained" which can be back filled into Prometheus. Not contradictory but they were off screen as it were. So I actually am coming round to the view it would be much more fun to read the entire "Theodicy" in one go anyway.

Also there is some stuff in "Regained" which is connected to A L I E N and so if the craft in that film came from the Pyramids it makes sense to make that connection whilst you are in them in Prometheus hinting at what you find out later.

It also address's something which I think is a fair criticism where does the creature fit into whats gone on in the Pyramids. Maybe it doesn't but why not? or maybe it does in which case make it clear. Indeed the only serious narrative changes rather than embellishments are about clearing up all those issues before we wake our friend. The real monster of the book is I am sure going to turn out to be Weyland.

What is Paradise and from whose point of view. Mankind tends to look at this from a pre Galileo point of view it all revolves around us and our perception. In some ways Elizabeths view of where her father has gone "some place beautiful" might imply that Paradise/Heaven is restricted just to mankind is it?

Elizabeth in that beautiful scene left out of Prometheus talks about the story she was told as a child of the Sun being lonely so we were created. She is also inspirational on the matter of we are not alone. However that presupposes her faith up until that point is based on the notion there is one God for one people. She has rocked up and found her creators are not Gods at all so now she wants to know who made them surely they are God? She is remodelling God as she goes on. Certainly by the time she leaves the Calpamos Moon she is not looking for Paradise but the Engineers Home world "Where they came from." She is exhausted grieving so probably needs time to think that somehow Paradise "where we go when we die" has gone a.wo.l. Surely that comes back into her mind? 

I like your openness on the Ovoids. Its relatively easy to come up with how where they created. There are many hints in Prometheus. Elizabeth's experience  is a pretty good bet as to some of it. 

However I like your point about what are they for. The assumption in the movies seems to be Mankind, Dogs, Ox. They could be for some thing really significant. Unlike the mutagen the cycle is very ritualistic that might be important.  

 "came from the Pyramids"     

Yes!  I'd love to get a William Hope Hodgson "The Night Land" spin.

John C Wright does a great job updating this:

https://www.amazon.com/Awake-Night-Land-John-Wright-ebook/dp/B00JM98V60

Now to get someone to 'update' the A L I E N story ......H.P. Lovecraft "At The Mountains of Madness" style. Neutral science fiction....I'd LOVE to have a version of Prometheus written by Lovecraft....Even have a Alien:Covenant version...with less 'Bro-dude millennials' crewing the spacecraft.

I notice when people down the years have mentioned the original "All About Everything" nature of Prometheus intent, as opposed to the "shoot um up" Aliens sub genre they refer to the Prometheus elements as being "Lovecraftian."

Given this statement from Lovecraft "To me there is nothing but puerility in a tale in which the human form—and the local human passions and conditions and standards—are depicted as native to other worlds or other universes." I am not inclined to agree. 

It seems to me the original proposition of Prometheus is we go out there and end up looking in the mirror. "They are us we are them." 

Jon Spaihts very first "seeds", excuse the pun, where about explaining us from a very familiar view point using a technique that moves between Darwinism and Creationism. It is within an existing conversation and was neatly summarised in the conflict of Elizabeth science and faith.  

Lovecraft seemed to me to jump right out of that and is somewhere else, certainly stylistically.

I am not suggesting Lovecraft isn't good or great I am simply saying my take on what Prometheus was going to do is quite different. I think, and this will come as no surprise, its something Damon Lindelof said. Ridley is very interested in Bladerunner (ish) themes. So Prometheus was going to some place where the mechanics of life and creation are not quite what we think but the humanoid was the reference point from which you look out. 2049 moves into that territory.    

Mind you the theme of Mountains of Madness is hinted at by Charlie. 

So some of this is about style and some about content. Can you say a horrific thing within a very normal humanoid setting. Do you go out to some place that looks and feels very odd to say odd things or do you go some place normal and feels normal to say odd things. The danger with the latter is it feels parochial - a bit like Star Wars. 

One idea of Love crafts I do like is that in the future we recognise our forebears the pre civilised ones had more real insight into the truth and in someways thats what the Cave Paintings are on about. That we are unlearning rather than re learning.