Prometheus : Theodicy

"but I am not constrained by an ALIEN straight jacket"

I think thats a exceptional comment, because it kind of is what has happened with the Direction they took with Alien Covenant, they NOW are stuck in that Straight Jacket

Regarding Dr Shaw a lot of people found her Boring, and Naive and never had much hope for a Sequel... But this is where it could have Dramatically Changed, i feel Noomi Rappace was stuck in a Straight Jacket with her Character i felt she could only do as good as the Character given but there was potential (i felt she was underrated Noomi that is)  Were we could have gone NEXT really could have given her a New Arc!  And this is a ALIEN Franchise Spin off so its not going to be about Finally Meeting God at the Pearly Gates of Heaven, and Entering Paradise as her Faith would donate!  For someone whos Faith has been Questioned... 

What happens Next could have been interesting and been explored in a number of ways that could lead to a Character Development that is interesting and really push Noomi Rappace to pull off more than her limitations of Character in Prometheus.

We also have David who is now truly Free, has realized his Maker Weyland is Nowhere near deserving to proclaim to be a God and be Granted Immortality, he has witnessed there is NOTHING to different with the Engineers.

A Superior Being, mistreated and disrespected who has come to confirm there is MAYBE nothing special about our Creation, our would be Gods......  But he comes to see Dr Shaw and her treatment of him and outlook on Life in spite of the Loss she has suffered, the Curse of not being able to Create Life, like himself.   He may Question what makes her so different to Weyland and Holloway, was her Faith part of that?   so David could had gone on a Philosophical and Spiritual Journey

There have been a number of Sci-Fi Movies/TV Series about Creation and Hubris of doing so, and Faith and Religion, that also go the route of AI that starts to have Philosophical, Religious and Faith Arcs.  A lot of people overlook a Part of Alien Resurrection where Synthetics Created the Autons, and these Sub-Creations (inc Call) are a kind of Religious Cult.

I think indeed there was a lot they could have done with the ARC of David and Dr Shaw... and i look forwards to were you was taking it.

I find it fitting with The Crossing Prologue and how this to me links to the AURORA - Nature Boy Song

This Song indeed does fit with David, and indeed those words are likely something he would mention to those who encounter him after his Journey from the End of Prometheus to the Closure of the Crossing Prologue

I take this into account with his conversation towards Daniels "what kind of a world can we build" which he replies "if we are kind to it, it will be a kind world"

When looking at RS comments about the sequel, and also looking at his Raised by Wolves TV Series i cant help but think there are a lot of things he wanted to cover which he did not in Alien Covenant, which i feel he may have with  the sequel...  i speculated what this could have been in my Topic Alien Exodus

BigDave When the books have been read by a wider audience I will happiy explain my choices about the 25th and 26th, the implications of the Mythos and how it refracts truths about human behaviour and the notion of an Intelligent Universe and an Engineered creation and its consequences but I would appreciate if we can set aside all the "stuff" about the films and other projects. The books speak for themselves in that regard. For me my view of the films is expressed by whats in the books and I have nothing further to say about them. To give a simple example if there is a line of dialogue in the Crossing which turns up in Regained that speaks for itself. Equally if Davids aspiration for living in a kind world is given a different context by me and possibly different behaviour surrounding that remark well that says it all. I clearly know what resonates with me and I would enjoy it if other people see it the same way but that is a positive movement not a chance to rehearse all the frustrations with the films.

A Theodicy about why the Gods are Furious.

When I wrote my straight line novel emerging out of Elizabeth's survival at the end of Prometheus I was anxious to create something unique and original but that was based on solid foundations.

I spent many weeks considering all the official material and IV's up until the point the movie was released before setting down my rule book and beginning. 

However I knew that a very substantial body of work existed which I did not have access to at the time "The Furious Gods :The Making Prometheus."

You can imagine, having tracked this material down through a friend who has been crucial to the development of the story, I was a little nervous when I slipped the Blu Ray in, would this material undermine my start point?

My first run through brought to the fore the whole gamut of emotions and I have decided to deal with all the key questions of the film, answer them and offer how I dealt with them in my work on my blog as a reference document.   

For the moment though some quotations from the first section.  

"What we knew in the first alien is just a tiny tributary of what’s actually going on." Michael Fassbender.

"To dare to talk about who made us and who made them." Ridley Scott

"I think you have got to give the fans something new and you’ve got to maybe sort of upset them a little bit or take that risk." Michael Fassbender. 

"You’ve wrung it dry." Ridley Scott on The Alien Franchise

"Not that it would have changed the story at all." on Using LV426 Steve Messing.

"There looking for Prometheus."

"The old man is on this mission to go and talk to Prometheus."

"The only way to dive into the story of the Space Jockey was they needed to be intrinsically linked to our beginning." On telling the story in a relatable way as opposed to giant comical elephantine beings.

"Our gods came not from the heavens but from the stars."

 All the above Jon Spaihts. 

"Arrogance to believe we are superlative, we maybe minor." Ridley Scott.

"That monster became a feature, a grace note of a much larger story." On how the Engineers grew as the story developed and the creature was a consequence of the Engineers actions.

"It was about humanity confronting the forces that had created it and maybe not liking them that much." 

Jon Spaights. 

Whilst the novel "Regained" is a psychological mystery as opposed to action horror, and therefore tells its story in a different way, having now considered the Furious Gods its clear the the notion that we would travel somewhere and have all our assumptions turned upside down and that we are on the edge of creation and on the wrong side was entirely correct.

As for the creature, and what it represents in general terms, I thought my idea was original, it turns out that Steve Messing was there before me.  

When I have constructed 7 questions and answers and my thoughts I will let those who read this thread know in case they are interested in what the people who made Prometheus were aiming to achieve.

What struck me forcibly about watching the documentary is the evolution of the film was very focused and very clear and Jon had as much sense of ownership and passion on the shift to Prometheus as anyone did. The idea that the film was developed in two distinct modular phases is not borne out by this documentary. It evolved naturally but certain shifts had more political implications than others in particular the naming of the film which evolved naturally through a series of small steps.   

It was always a march toward the Engineers and mankind's origins and then at a tactical level to what extent do we make the connection with the craft and its cargo. At the beginning it was literal at the end it was elliptical but the real point of the story was unchanged. What was the nature of our makers ?

Lindelof shifting the purpose of the mission to pursue Weyland's desire for more life personalised and focused that element of the story. 

@Michelle Johnston

"I think you have got to give the fans something new and you’ve got to maybe sort of upset them a little bit or take that risk." Michael Fassbender.  -  now that is the understatement of the month....

Even in the recent days a saw a Youtuber saying it was the franchise killer, spreading the misconceptions for fun and profit.

I think Certainly back at the Time of Prometheus and just after there was Certain things they seemed they want to show us...   Biblical Connections where loosely there, its a case of how Literal.... the Whole Von Daniken's  work Chariots of the Gods should take more of a Role.

None the Less... as indicated in part with the Furious Gods Documentary, it seems the whole GODS and Creation Aspect was the BIGGER thing rather than Horrors like the Xenomorph

So it is interesting to wonder where they was taking us....

Indeed the Plot was about Pre-Vistation by these would be Gods the Engineers, who had played a Role in our Creation so it seemed.... and they had Interacted with us, Taught us most of the Stuff we knew, from our Visitations by these beings our Legends, Mythos and Religion Spawned...  but each of these should HOLD a Element of Truth..

The Revelations we got opened up the Door to be Explored more... and INDEED it as then a case of OK.. so WHO Created Them?

The Engineers Came from Paradise or so we would call as such, and so it was HOW do they show us this Paradise, in what Context does it Connect to what we would assume is Paradise.

There was always the Talk of Paradise Lost, the Fallen Angels and so it was about in WHAT kind of Context is the Fallen Angels.. who are the Fallen Angels of this Story... its implied the Engineers... but all the Engineers?

The Furious Gods had indicated that they saw Prometheus as a Fallen Angel. The Prometheus Theme and Tale was Connected but its HOW as in how much further do they reveal how its Connected.

Knowledge is the KEY... its a TOOL that with Free-will can Mold/Shape a Person/Being along with the Environment and Treatment that a Person/Being goes through...  So Relationship between Creator and Sub-Creation, the Rules and Intention they have for their Creations is Important.... and what Happens when their Creations Learn things and do things that their Creators had NOT intended...

So then you have to come to WHAT does a Creator do to Prevent this, or in Retaliation of this... that is where PUNISHMENT is a Interesting thing...  

From this we could assume is where the Xenomorph and its Ancestral Routes/Origins come from.

Then we have that Question... how Significant are we? How Important are we, as far as the Creators are Concerned....

So there view towards us could be as we would look at Robot, a Machine, a Tool.... or how we would view Live-Stock..... or could the Relationship be one of Love and Companionship?

But when this does not work out, when we are deemed a Disappointment... then for Gods who have Created similar to us on Many Worlds.... it would to them maybe be as Insignificant to them as far as to Destroy/Replace us... as it would when our Vacuum or TV Breaks and we just go and Replace it.

Or we are destined to Destruction for Necessity.... take GREMLINS... while Mogwai are Cute and Lovable, they can Procreate Out of Control... and ONCE they Eat after Midnight they become a Inconvenience/Threat... and so you would  Consider that you would have to KILL all the Mogwai to avoid the Inevitable..

The same could be said with Synthetics.. in Hindsight you would think it best to PULL THE PLUG on them...

But a Hubris comes from trying to SAVE some, give them a Chance.. if more CARE is taken with them, then we would have NO Problems... so you Save the Last Mogwai and keep to the Rules..

You decide to Re-Program and Improve your AI!

Ultimately doing so you still have the POTENTIAL for things to GO TO POT!

As the Engineers in ALIEN COVENANT discover.. when Mankind Ultimately was allowed to Survive.

So its all the things like this, that we could have expected more in a PROMETHEUS 2 rather than how we hardly got them in ALIEN COVENANT.

So Certainly it would have been Interesting to Discover this, and its Interesting to see what others do as far as their IDEAS on how they would have gone about such Answers..

Another thing that maybe would have been Touched on is Immortality... the Quest for it... who is Immortal and who can Achieve it... where do we go when we DIE?

Weyland thought he was GODLIKE and so deserved to be Immortal as Gods Never Die.... its Ironic that it is his Creation in David who is actually as close to Immortal and having a After-Life (AI) than Mankind and Engineers, and Ultimately David is the one who could be closer to becoming a GOD.

@BigDave it's nice to know that you are a Gizmo fan :).

I think it's possible to do that movie- 'Prometheus, Paradise lost', in the future. Why not?!

I would love to watch a movie full of engineers mythology. A movie with the arrival of a human spaceship to planet Four, well received by our creator descendants, a movie full of flashbacks that are shown When the ancient engineer leader starts to tell US from the beginning the story of the creation of life in the universe, at a diner iluminated  by candles, where it's explained that the 'one', the real Jesus Christ of the universe was the primordial engineer, the ONLY immortal Demigod capable of procreating with his own creations, half Breeds, hybrids, similar to his image, but without his  gifts. our Jesus Christ was One of the Six first creations of the 'one', placed on planets where life,as we know it, was possible,   across Six different galaxies, with the purpose of guide the 'engineered' humans, to be the leader of the 'engineered mankind'.

'The one' was erradicated by a creation that went wrong, resemblant to the Deacon that we know. In the engineer society, like ours, there's a need  to  worship only One amongst the many, and that's why they replace, on the altar, 'the One' by the 'primitive Deacon'.

Without The engineer vigilance, because of the replacement of 'the One' on Paradise,  we kill our Jesus Christ.

Humanity is abandoned to her own luck, as Paradise falls in disgrace, being Lost Forever.

Now, mankind is the best hope to restore engineers legacy, continuing the works of spreading life across the universe. But there's a problem. On the planets where life is possible,   there are hords of deacons that erradicated all life. They are dorment, waiting,  and we need to fight Them  if we want to restore civilizations. The 'primordial Deacon' still exists, is intelligent and he  is capable of commanding This hords on the field, or, from the spaceship, where he travels. The battle for the universe starts now.

Well there was many ways to Cover how they could have explored a Sequel...  It seems they would have STEERED AWAY from Deacon's and the Like, as those Horrors are Considered to NOT be the Main Thing about the Prometheus Spin Off that was intended.

The reason i made that List was to expand upon the things they was likely to try and answer in Following Sequels before they decided to give us Alien Covenant.

This Topic is Michelle's to indicate to us WHAT she had done as Far as Ideas she had on HOW to Answer those Questions.

So i Apologize this is taking it OFF TOPIC.

But thats a Good Idea you had setaverde i think you should START a Topic on it and we can discus it there.

Hi Michelle,

I haven't read your creation but I would like to. How? Your description triggers associations and questions.

How much of it is yourself (Shaw)?

David's point of view might be the same as Frankenstein's creation? In a way, he is, perhaps, the main character? We have seen David's point of view in "The Crossing" (and in "Advent").

Is someone's point of view the truth? I'm thinking about Faulkner for instance, "As I lay Dying", where you get everybody's point of view surrounding her death. But, is anyone's point of view the truth?

https://myloveofprometheus.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-making-of-prometheus.html

The Seven Topics I chose to answer are :-

1) The meaning of the waterfall incident.

2) Is the story religious.

3) The Geography. How was the LV chosen and why were their five pyramids.

4) Is the Space Jockey an Engineer.

5) The Catalyser and the Mutagen.

6) The cause of the Outbreak?

7) The Deacon and The Creature.  

The most obvious point I would make is the extra blu ray disc is an extra ordinary detailed body of work which not only provides direct answers but also by endless repetitive inference, makes some matters clear and I recommend those interested acquire it.

Three things really surprised:-

1) The sense of oneness of vision of Jon/Damon and Ridley. Indeed Jon is the most eloquent in describing Prometheus even though initially the mission and outbreak in his drafts were different. Those distinctions do not affect the thematic ideas being offered. Indeed I was impressed at the singularity of vision of everyone. 

2) Maybe its because people are very anti religious and simply like to pigeon hole it as Love Craftian and that sidetracked me but there is no doubt Ridleys intension was to tell a story about a purposeful creation which would have a view about who made the Engineers - God. It is just that God and the Soul would be defined from a different perspective to an Abrahamic benevolent God with heaven for the souls of the departed. But the scenes with Elizabeth's father, Weyland's Holographic talk about the soul and the fact that Elizabeth was a believer were not part of the story by coincidence they are key.

3) As someone who took the original narrative themes and ran with them I was looking for more clues as to where they intended to go next. LV223 was anthrax island where to use a colloquialism they made monsters and the point of the film was to give context as to why they made the cargo of Eggs. So the "cool ideas" which Ridley and Damon discussed would have taken us to somewhere entirely different. By the time we leave LV223 we know we do not like our creators and that creation far from being driven by a benign God is driven by something we don't actually care for. So we have as context Frankenstein/Monster, Weyland/David. Why don't the Monster and David like their creator and become adversarial? So whether the planet looks crack jack or not in story terms thats what I think David and Elizabeth were coming into.

The Engineers of the Pebble ship are described as noble savages, I would add to that the scene that plays out is violent and aggressive. This it seems to me moves in on where Ridley was going. To make a story out of a planned creation where there was no emotional connection between creator and created and this is where David coming along acts as our proxy. 

@chli

You are most welcome to read it. I am currently going through a period of revision. Much of it is routine sharpening both the prose and dialogue so it speaks more directly but also the art work on the Blu ray has inspired me to offer richer descriptions so I will continue to work on that and get back to you. As matter of interest where the art work anticipates and covers the same areas are :-

1) Elizabeths first site of the surreal beauty of their achievements oddly enough she approaches it in the same way in my work as the original ending of the film where she comes across a wonderful terra formed under ground cavern. 

2) The source of their technology.

3) Their natural look (as opposed to the altered state of the LV223 creatures). 

At a philosophical level I gave a lot of thought to the revelation of mankind's beginning why are we "a silly greedy people", what caused the destruction of LV 223 (which I do not think is what Ridley intended but thematically its identical) but the most interesting element is why did the Engineers start "making monsters." It has always been in the story but I am now making it clearer and it has a good deal to do thematically with both Frankenstein's Monster and David and of course shifts into Bladerunner territory. Its much more subtle than the paranoid world view that children will always want to destroy their parents. Its what happens if you take the love embodied in natural procreation out of the equation and do things as Charlie said "because we could"?

How much is me (Shaw) ? Wow thats an interesting question. When you write an extension each foot step you give Elizabeth and David has to be very very carefully worked over.

Elizabeth is more driven than ever "I want to go where they come from." and much more aware. "what if they are no better than us". But also "I cannot create life." for her that was a big thing and plays heavily into the story. She loved her parents and shared her fathers belief's thats important to her momentum. In terms of risk she is beyond caring she is out there alone there is only one way to go, forward, in that sense she is reckless. What happens when she finds the truth? Well without story in other words interaction with the narrative I am sure it would be to much for any human being to deal with. However the story gives her support. David is "looking for meaning" (Damon) and I keep on with that as well as Michael's view of David that he is ambiguous. You are not certain of him until the middle of Act 2.

But the key theme for both of them is connected to the tree of knowledge. If you come up against the most elemental forces of the Universe you cannot survive unchanged. If your looking for normality after all this .. its just not possible.

So Shaw/me I think its broader than that I think she continues as Damon intended to be proxy for all of us. However it seems to me if you want to be as authentic as possible you have to say how would I deal with all these horrors both physically and philosophically. People always say I don't know how you go on and the response is always I have no other option that is part of the answer. Ridley is also helpful on that because he puts Noomi Rapace the actor in that place after she survives the collision of the craft. David opens up the possibility of her questions being answered for her, thats what keeps her going and that is what drives her all through my story.         

I would finish by saying I have always said that the Alien Lifecycle represents non consensual creation by sacrifice on the one hand and at the other end of spectrum the natural lifecycle, consensual creation driven by love. I think in this enlarged story there is a third way, a middle way, consensual creation by third party interference. Not only can the Alien Lifecycle be a counterfeit version of the middle way but what if you decide you would rather create for your own agenda rather than for the whim of others? Might you end up being immortalised in a temple fresco having given birth by Caesarean to your own idea of life, however bizarre the result, at least its "yours".    

Michelle

I guess I’ll wait to comment until I’ve read your story but “theodicy” is the problem of how a benevolent and omnipotent God can accept different kinds of evil and misery in his creation. I’m very much interested in your solution.

Also, I came to think about what Tolkien said in “On Fairy-Stories”. Stories should have a happy ending ("eucatastrophe”). Perhaps R. Scott’s visions are too dystopic?

Anyway, I look very much forward to reading your story.

Hi Chilli,

The reason why I called the two books Theodicy was just a slight variation of your interpretation. Essentially it is why is there evil in the world. During the documentary the gentleman from Fox says Prometheus is about "Why would you make monsters." That is a nice Fox power phrase which is essentially saying the same thing. 

I think you get to the root of why Lindelof/Scott's Prometheus 2 was never made. Not only does Prometheus hijack the Alien Universe but it would then have moved forward with an even handed view of outcomes. The Alien straight jacket does not allow for that, the brand is about horror and monsters within a dystopian vision.

The reason I wrote the continuation novel was very selfish I wanted to be able to watch Prometheus knowing that what happened meant something. 

But when Elizabeth and David set off into the heavens I decided I could take the story anywhere. We didn't have to do bad robot though he might be. We didn't have to do gung-ho Lesbian icon woman more empowered than men who survives.

I think the ultimate message of the books is centred on Ridleys comment it is arrogance to suppose two things :-

1) We are alone.

2) We are the big players we maybe a side show.  

If the books reveal anything personal rather than tell a story it is my view of who we are and why we are the way we are. 

And for anyone else reading this thread thanks for keeping it on topic which is essentially:-

1) Prometheus July 2012 and what was intended.

2) What an obsessive hobbyist has done to solve a problem.

Finally I am quite energised by watching the documentary and have decided rather than the rather intellectualised title I have changed it to 

Prometheus : The Furious Gods.

It looks great, it sounds great and it has application.  

@Michelle Johnston To be very honest "Why would you make monsters?" is answered also answering by studying the case of David the incel Android and his rapey urges. 

Michelle

I read your “The Furious Gods Answers” (I also watched the documentary) and I think I agree with most of your conclusions. I’m especially pleased that the Space Jockey is an Engineer (and not David for instance). :) He was also connected to the outbreak on LV-223, but it isn’t, perhaps, quite clear why there were eggs rather than mutagen in the cargo hold?

Why would you create monsters? Well, Frankenstein’s “monster” and David became monsters because they were treated badly. But why did the Engineers worship the Deacon (if that’s what they did)? Was it just a biological weapon made to eradicate worlds, why then worship it?

The theodicy problem is, in a way, easily solved since the Engineers were neither gods nor benevolent. The seeding Engineers were savages dealing with hominid sacrifice and the LV-223 Engineers were mass murderers.

I think “Prometheus: The Furious Gods” is a good title, resembling “The Wrath of God”. But since humans and Engineers are cousins, I wonder if there is a furious God looking down on both of them? :)

@chli

There are two issues (at least) which I back filed :-

1) Why the Lone Craft has a different cargo.(Damon says in the commentary that will probably never get answered. I get that its detail which doesn't affect the themes)  If your going to (go there) which i did it cannot be gratuitous it has to be for story. Its connected to Piero della francesca's - The Nativity, which is a signpost to go there and the rest unfolds. 

2) The metaphor for the Promethean's (LV223) and the Deacon is Weyland/David. Weyland loved his creation for himself because he achieved it. But equally he despised (The Hologram speech) and feared him (David's wake up scene). The other similarity (in my story) between the Promethean's and Weyland is they are both rebelling to whatever their natural order is. However the reason for the Prometheus movement (the theft of technology) is about a failure on both sides.

3) The pilot of the Lone craft is on a specific journey and his obliteration is the most violent because he was going to pursue the greatest evil. He is caught in the story of  appropriate sacrifice.

4) In an intelligent universe where creation is neither magnanimous or accidental the methodology is inevitably going to appear brutal, unsympathetic and violent. Someone has to do the heavy lifting. The question is there any grace in this any sense of value for the participants. I took the chant and the delivery of the sacrament as being one of noble sacrifice and because what is being transmitted (in my story), is the most precious commodity of this Universe, it has value and is understood to do so. The donation is not simply about the creation tool if it was you would just throw the imbibing cup in the falls it is about the material and the vessel that carries it. It is a rite of passage not just superstitious mumbo jumbo. For the viewer of the movie to consider it smj is to miss the point of the story, this is about an Engineered nuts and bolts creation. Obviously there will always be smart asses that no everything about creation and say it doesn't hold up as a plausible idea but this is provocative entertainment which is intended to make you think not a NASA dissertation.

In closing there are lots of reasons why Prometheus is an exceptional movie which will grow its cult status but there are many reasons why it fails with people and not least because its prime method of communication is thematic and symbolic which doesn't fit the fanbase or the modern audiences preoccupation with bit by bit detail over suspension.

OK. I look forward to reading it, Michelle.

@ignorantGuy

I didn't use the term "why would you make monsters" the guy from Fox did. It was his short hand for explaining Prometheus to himself and how to sell it. What I think is much more fertile territory is to look at why evil exists in an Intelligent Universe and what can go wrong. As Jon Spaiht's said the monsters simply signify the danger the Engineers can represent. Something had gone wrong already because the danger was to themselves as well. 

The real issue is a part of humanity, represented by Elizabeth, tends to think that morality is the consequence of the benign circumstances in which we were created. What this story is capable of asking us to think about is can there be morality and dare I say love in an engineered universe. In Foxes terms do all robots have to be bad. 

In this story we were going to be destroyed 2,000 years ago but we were actually saved, coincidence? Important? If it were important then that suggests someone is at least interested if not benignly supportive and yet its an intelligent universe where everything is a construction one way or another. How would a God of an Engineered Universe respond to rebellion, its happened, how do you put it right?

So we now have three questions.

How does an Engineered Universe go wrong?

How would the powers respond ?

How would you put it right?  

@Michelle Johnston what I was saying (maybe not very clearly) the provided information (David) can also respond to that question and some argue that Prometheus was always about David. And Because of Fassbender play always an @-hole is very unlikely someone from Fox would want anything else than an evil robot. 

@ignorantGuy

I am sure you won't find this response censorious if I say I only want in this thread to discuss Prometheus and its associated materials up to the day it was released in July 2012. 

So we have a savvy woman the sole survivor and a humbled robot. The only credible way to take the story forward is that David responds to Elizabeths decision to show him more kindness than anyone else by being affected. Anything else lacks coherence and would ignore the basic rules of drama.

I will permit myself one "fall" that "Furious Gods" repeatedly reminds the viewer of the kind of movie that Ridley was desperate to avoid making. Over and over again he talks of being fresh of moving to new ground of fresh takes on everything. I won't insult you by asking you to think about how that relates to the 20th Century Fox movie from 2017 set in the same universe.

What gives me huge joy and excitement is to know I did not project my view of what Prometheus was "all about" its there for all to see in 420 minutes of material. What you as a highly intelligent articulate person seeking fresh experiences can be reassured by is that at least three key people Fassbender, Scott and Lindelof were well aware they were taking a risk. They knew the vocal core fanbase much better than the core fanbase and their U Tube diatribes know the movie and what it was trying to do.    

@Michelle Johnston I'm sorry to have divagated from the original post. But for me, Covenant cannot be unseen and that from those 3 only Lindelof had the spine to not cave-in also says much. Scott was with the sequel only a businessman and Fassbender wanted his own franchise, so I cannot sympathize with either.

But I am really happy for you, none the less.

I think while Alien Covenant is not the Sequel that most wanted, it also seemed to be NOT quite what appeared to be the Direction if we look at Prior to 2014.  I think Prometheus left it open to EXPAND this Story in Many Ways, which Alien Covenant had just Clipped the Wings off that Bird.....

So its always Interesting to get another persons idea of HOW they would have Continued the Prequels.   I have not been Commenting on this Topic, because my replies can be too much in Depth and with the Subject Matter at Hand and Scope of WHAT could have happened after Prometheus, my Feedback would just kind of be TOO LONG and maybe Derail the Thread....

But i certainly am Interested in seeing your TAKE on what to have done NEXT, just as i would with others who would have wanted to go ahead and explain WHAT they would have Done Next....

While Alien Covenant will likely remain Canon... and to Continue with the Path is NOW more Simplistic but Disappointing, i still think its GREAT to discus Prometheus and what it could have led to because that Movie had almost Unlimited Scope, so its Good to see how others would have Continued with the Story.

@BigDave

Thank you for not offering your brand of "deep feedback."It is much appreciated the point of highlighting the Furious Gods was two fold:-

1) To encourage people to purchase and watch it to increase their understanding of the narrative and visual symbolism of the film.

2) To show how my original work work sits with the expanded understanding the material provides. 

Certainly i think its interesting to see how others would TRY and Continue with Prometheus, expand maybe some things that were a bit Vague in Terms of Theatrically and to offer a Continuation of Questions Raised by Prometheus and those that are NOT really Answered in Prometheus...  As far as Theatrically.

*We get Indication that we are a Product of the Engineers Interference both from our Genetic Origins and Creations, to our Development from Cave-Men to the level of Technology just prior to the Middle Ages

(We never got much indication of WHY this Investment of Time by the Engineers).

*We see at some point the Engineers had conducted Experiments that are NOT really Genetically Connected to us, such Horrors which Theatrically was Ambiguous to WHY and so we have Davids "sometimes to create one must first destroy" to go by.

(And so these are things that also a Sequel could covered, because again in Part these are things Dr Shaw would want Answers too).

*In spite of their Discovery, where Dr Shaw may have been so Wrong... she holds on to her Faith that surely a God would not be so Cruel and so WHO had Created them.

(so this is something ELSE that she wants to Discover but would such a Discovery be closer to her Faith or even Further away and Horrific).

*We have the Arc of David, a Superior Creation, who feels Mistreated by his Creator (and Humans), who longs to be Free, and Finally Becomes Free, he has a Dislike for Humans, but in Dr Shaw he comes across a Interesting Case, and so it seems he is Interested in WHAT drives her to Carry On, in Spite of the Discoveries.  Her Faith is what drives her on, and gives her Strength and also contributes to her Kindness.

(so its a Question of Davids interest in this and what effect Dr Shaw has on David, and how they could change his outlook on Life and Purpose is something that could have been explored).

*We then come to the Extended Scene a little... were Dr Shaw does want to go to where they (Engineers) come from for her Answers as she has Nothing to go back home to.  And the Extended Version we know David says the Engineer told him they come from a Place we would call PARADISE...

(so there is that to Explore, in what Context would we consider the Engineers World Paradise?).

Then you do have other Questions like What is a Soul?, where do we go when we Die?  I think its interesting to see David go on a Journey for more of a Purpose than he was Created, and Dr Shaw could certainly Inspire him, so there are a lot of Blade Runner like Themes to be explored....  would it be IRONIC that David is the only being who is actually as close to having the Soul that Dr Shaws Faith would indicate?

So i am not offering my view on any of these, just Highlighting some of the things to have explored that had not really been done so in Alien Covenant.

And so the parts in the (Brackets) are showing what Potentially could had been Explored, and that i think in part is the reason you went about with your Version of where to go NEXT... which i think has been a Labor of Love and something Interesting to Eventually Read ;)

@BigDave

First bracket -Answer

Why did Frankenstein make the monster and Weyland David and in the latter case pursue 8 upgrades. Hubris/an aspiration to be God because they were able to but most important of all it was not out of love for their creations. It was non consensual and when both made demands or looked for equivalence guess what happened. There is your allegory for dark angels/mankind.

Second Bracket - Answer.

Elizabeth wants to have it confirmed we are not alone and that when we die our soul resides somewhere. After the experience on the Moon she wants to know why they created us and why they wanted to destroy us. By the end of Prometheus she knows we are not alone but in away that she is not convinced is the final answer.  

The issue of soul and where it resides is a very emotional issue for her (mother and father) it becomes a central driver of the final act and David plays a significant role who we also know is interested in, being artificial where he fits in. In Prometheus he is profoundly interested in Elizabeths preoccupation with this part of her journey and continues to be so. David understands the context of soul before Elizabeth for a story telling reason.

Third bracket - Answer

The issue of the Engineers Home world and to what extent we would regard it as Paradise. The answers are :-

1) Would mankind consider it Paradise? Depends who you ask.    

2) Would the creatures of the Moon consider it Paradise. No otherwise they would still be there. They are Promethean and ended up with the same fate. 

3) Does Elizabeth feel she has arrived at Paradise no she believes she has arrived at the Engineers Home world which also turns out to be incorrect. Does it feel like her definition of Paradise in terms serenity beauty captivating Yes at some points in the story. But she doesn't say ah this is Paradise she says at one point wow this experience is pure Paradise or she sees something and says this is a veritable Paradise. David finds a truth which enables them to understand all sorts of things including what is Paradise and Paradise Lost. 

4) Do they meet Adam and Eve. Yes and No. 

5) Do they find Heaven. Yes and No.  

We were made by dark angels but in the end they came from the "Engineers Home world" and so to use Ridley's word we have recall/foot prints embedded within us which are a fragment of the truth so that is why the truth looks a little like our myths but a lot like something altogether different. The reason the truth is hidden from us is appalling indeed the most appalling truth of my vision but it explains a good deal of why we are the way we are.  

To come back to the central point of this entire arc of thinking begun with Prometheus and Bladerunner.

1) Some people believe we are an accident of all the elements of creation coming together Darwinism. They do not look for a loving creator.

2) Some people believe in divine intervention through the power of a loving God.

3) The idea of P/BR is we were made with purpose but no love. We were made because you can for the convenance of the creator and if that tenuous relationship breaks down from the creators perspective start again.   

"3) The idea of P/BR is we were made with purpose but no love. We were made because you can for the convenance of the creator"

The intention of Prometheus indeed was not 1 or 2, but to Step Between those Boundaries, of a None Accidental Creation by a Ancient Race who indeed were playing lets see what we can Create.

The Evolution of the Concept has changed the Outlook on a Reason WHY we was Created, after the Changes and Removal of Deleted Scenes, then we are Left with the Theatrical Cut....  we with Comments mainly by Lindeloff we are indeed shown that its case of those Engineers maybe just could.....

I think Lindeloff just has a Lazy Outlook to it a little, while Spaights seemed to have more sense of Depth, thats not Disputing WHY we was Created... Theatrically its left not really explained...  the whole its because we could was a Get Out Card of sorts...

But even if this is the Intention, that we was Created because they could.... then there is the Interesting Part of what do you do Once you realize what you could Create, what Intention then....

And as you mention.. "if that tenuous relationship breaks down"  it is really Interesting that you are maybe going to touch on what became of this Relationship Once these Would be Gods proved they could go and Create in their Own Image.

@chli

Out of politeness just to say I have not forgotten your request. 

After my experience with the "Furious Gods" I was inspired to enhance (not change) my descriptions of both the place and characters that David and Elizabeth meet and come into. Inevitably I found myself improving the text most often simplifying to make the reading more dynamic and communicative. When I write it tends to be backwards with the question then the answer, whereas for a completed narrative you simply need to offer the action of the narrative rather than explain it. 

However I have been reading some essays written collectively about Shelley's work and Scotts work and realise that sub consciously I had included within the narrative the importance of consent but hadn't focused on it. Unlike her father Elizabeth she ask questions, she does not offer blind obedience she personifies Miltonic Adam. David was created for his creators benefit and then upgraded by his creator eight times so consent or lack of it becomes very important to David.

Did the Engineers of this story consider consent and why did the  creatures of the Moon use hosting as a natural choice of sub creation. So the former is driven by Shelley and the latter by Scott.

It ties in with "the accident" the creature which hosts without consent so that footprint is in the Mutagen. (The Mutagen=Creature). Incidentally if the movie was made on the basis that the Mutagen(gloop)= Creature then the Mutagen thematically has to involve a Parasite it cannot be the original creation tool alone. In the sub created world that makes no sense.   

The other issue is the Dick/Bladerunner one, Do Androids dream.....   

If David finds himself in front of something which is capable of/has harnessed the power of creation what would his search for meaning include. In the movie he interrogates Elizabeths dreams, that cannot only have important consequences for their continued connection but for him and there is a story beat which it fits naturally with which I have rewritten. 

In closing I must stress the mode of the overall piece is quite definitely much more aligned with Lindelof's vision for P2 that it would "most likely" not contain any references to the things we associate with ALIEN. It would be a separate child moving narratively alongside and away from ALIEN. 

The issue of Giger/Lovecraftian is handled as Scott handles it in the "Furious Gods" he wanted a vision of a world before these things come into it older. if the Moon represents Paradise Lost then the dysfunctional interrupted quality of Giger is perfect but the original vision was pure which as you know was the original brief to the artists who wanted to sneak in Giger!

Earlier this year Scott offered the overall Prometheus story in the context of seven worlds a very sophisticated advertising vehicle for Hennessy.

Creation

Archaeological Discovery

The Ritual

Artificial Sub creation

Destruction

Aftermath

Religious seeking for the truth

Rebirth

Revelation  

It is not so much the themes echoes mine (I wrote my story in 2018) but as others have noted the visual symbolism offered is aligned with mine and if you view it, it is not dysfunctional at all. What you see is the world that David and Elizabeth come into, so the horrific truths for mankind are played out in a seaming Paradise which makes the pill that much more bitter and particularly if you can not accept the notion we might be a footnote.    

I think certainly its Interesting to Ponder if David would be Searching for  a Purpose, and looking at our Purpose, he did seem Offended by the Suggestion that he was Created because we could....

So they Both could have Shared a Journey that could have gone in many ways, but what we Ended Up with was something that Tossed that Potential in the BIN!

The Seven Worlds Hennessy Advert was interesting and it also got me thinking was there some subtle hints in this to what he had Intended with the Prequels?

Could it be that he had Conceived that there is a possibility he MAY-NOT get to Tell the Story he wanted to, and so he Incorporates some ideas into other Projects... like The Seven Worlds.

It would be interesting to wonder how much of Raised by Wolves would borrow from his Alien Awakening too.

Prometheus Certainly had a lot of Potential, i do worry we would NEVER see anything that connects to it anymore...

So its always Interesting to see HOW others would have taken the Ball that was Dropped with Alien Covenant and see how they Run with it.

So i Wish you all the Best with your Prometheus : Theodicy

Michelle

That’s very kind of you. Looking forward to it!

About consent. Has anyone agreed to be born? Can we be sure that most people have been born out of love? Of course, the consent could refer to sexual agreement and the facehugging equal to rape. Furthermore, the birth of a xenomorph (through hosting) is violent, but not too dissimilar to human births, is it? Pain and violence is part of creation?

Anyway, “The Seven Worlds” is beautifully done.

I think Consent and Love are very Interesting to Ponder.

In Context to the Apparent Creation of Mankind, a lot depends on the Path.... we can only Speculate about HOW LONG it would be after the Sacrificial Scene before we arrive at Cave Men on Earth, and how many Artificial Evolution's on the way to this had Happened.

Depending on what we look at we could Arrive at a different Conclusion, but we have to maybe try and NOT consider any Deleted Material. 

We could Speculate about the Consent of the Engineer, was he really so WILLING?  The Theatrical Cut shows us he seemed like he had a Sense of Purpose i never got a Sense of him being Concerned or Fearful, do we assume that he Fully was Aware of what would become of him?  Surely he would know about his Races Procedures and Rituals which RS seemed to indicate that he would have.

Certainly Mankind did-not Consent to our Creation, but then with a lot of Creation, the Creator does not ask its Creation for Consent.   Regarding Love then indeed Human Creation does sometimes come from Love, but sometimes its purely a Consequence of Lust.

So when such a Creation comes from NOT so Love in that way, even Totally as NOT from Love such as Rape, that does-not mean that the Creation would be UNLOVED.

I dont mean for this to be OFF-TOPIC.. i think it kind of is ON-TOPIC, as far as HOW would such things be Covered by Michelle's work.

So by that its like IF we was Created because the Engineers Could and there was NO LOVE, would that apply to the Effort spent in Visiting us and Teaching us, was there Care and Compassion for us in this? or was this something (Visits/Teachings) that was done purely for some other GAIN and not for our Benefit?

I think looking at the Xenomorph and the like is Interesting too as there is 100% No Love or Compassion Involved it is Primal, Survival.

This does-not rule out that some Consent is involved if we cover that some CHOOSE to Self-Sacrifice themselves to allow for such Horrors to Exist, however you would Consider that Most would not be Consenting to this, unless they was Part of some Ritualistic Cult.

I think another Interesting take would be how Michelle you would tackle the Relationship between David and Dr Shaw, would a Robot be Capable of more than Platonic Love for Dr Shaw and how would she React?  Would she Reciprocate that or Reject it?

Which ever way she would React... how would this Effect David?

Then we have the Situation that David and Dr Shaw can-not create Life together... not in the Traditional/Natural Sense.  Would David be trying to look at HOW he could HELP her to become a Mother? She could NOT conceive a Child... only a Horror from the Pathogen, but this at least Proved that this Pathogen Presented a Way for her to Create a None Human Fetus.

Could David be thinking of if there was way she could Conceive a Normal Fetus, would he Help her?

So yeah there are many Interesting things to Ponder, which if some or all are Covered by you Work Michelle i think it would be Interesting to see how you tackle those.

Good Luck with your Project ;)

Consent 

Within the narrative there are issues about non consensual demands without explanation of the consequences.

However this is really about :-

“Did I request thee, Maker, from my clay / To mould me Man, did I solicit thee / From darkness to promote me?”

Adam makes an error and is banished from Paradise, well excuse me God you made me. The creature in Frankenstein did not ask to be made and he is even more angry with his creator. David has only been active seconds, and much like Frankenstein, Weyland has an instant but different reaction he sees a danger. 

So in an intelligent creation is there a danger that those whom are "Manufactured" and for a purpose might broadly speaking operate in the same area and deal with the same dilemma. 

What strikes me about the Moon is there is a good deal of self expression going on (The Fresco's, The Mural)  and given it has been left unattended for 2,000 years no one else is interested. At an authorial level I took that to mean they wished to express themselves through sub creation and the ultimate expression of that, the creatures in the Mural, is a living entity capable of procreation based on the Riff at the end. These guys on the Moon had created us who were capable of self sustaining life and the deacon race who could achieve the same, but in their eyes better. So life is created which is self sustaining (Not an accidental parasite) and would not ask consent of its parents but the reality in the story is none of this has consent.

So what does have consent in an intelligent creation and why?

How do you create, without love, and rub along amicably.

We know mankind creates across a range of emotional reasons and we do not rub along amicably.

So what would a universe look like where the issue of consent did not create a problem between the origin creators and the created, because its not relevant. Our proxy's for looking at this are David and Elizabeth. 

As for "is creation violent?" I develop that theme out of the idea Ridley offered they are aggressive f.....

In my vision, you receive various forms of sexual knowledge in the first movement. Vickers/Janek, Charlie/Elizabeth and a nasty three way exposé which includes the creature.

In the second movement its all about the revelation of creative knowledge how it has been applied why it went wrong (on the Moon) and how Elizabeth reacts to it.  

All the examples of creative knowledge are pursued in a profoundly aggressive manner driven by a desire for self expression.

However the most interesting example is back in the first movement where there is a confluence of creative and sexual knowledge where Elizabeth gives birth to a horribly deformed child which merges the two elements. In that instance the child immediately wants to destroy the parent. Is that a comment on creation out of chaos or the paranoid world view that all children want to destroy their parents (which actually isn't correct).     

David and Elizabeth (Bigdave)

In a universe where creation has gone astray and we have a barren woman and a brilliant android incapable of finding meaning in a creative sense, you can pervert the rules of creation and make them a new Adam and Eve but that seems to me to be to easy and merely the inverse of the Covenant narrative where the android stole her non performing reproductive organs and made the creature out of this and other ingredients to get more bums on seats.

All I will say say is one reader said the outcome for them was incredibly sad and another a wonderful vision of the future. In other words their journey is bound up with so many elements that it depends on the reader as to whether what happens to them is profoundly sad profoundly encouraging or even both.

If one believes in nothing at all then reading the books has no point at all because it isn't about nothing at all its about something. Put simply when you have a very broad scope the responses tell you more about the reader than whats read. To elaborate on this.     

If people do not like science fiction thats fine.

If people want endless rehashes of A L I E N and A L I E N S tropes thats fine. 

If people are profoundly "religious" and find you tinkering with God, Christ and creation and find that blasphemous thats fine. 

If people are certain that Darwin was 100% right thats fine. 

However if you want to take human nature, the big questions and offer to explain why we are the way we are and its neither Machines or Abrahamic Gods but essentially about what is morality ? Then you might be curious.

Put simply Prometheus the Movie is a morality tale about hubris on every single level from Fifield right up to the Dark Angel so what I found profoundly amusing and fascinating is how we react to this story.

You could argue Sir Ridley was also guilty of hubris but its quite clear he knew the risks he was taking and to be fair he nearly pulled it off, its the top grossing movie of the franchise it doesn't belong in, say some, the perfect hubristic comment on Monster Love.

BigDave

As you know my style on the forum is to offer my conclusions and why, rather than your speculative approach of rehearsing all the potential questions. 

So I will answer your speculations and provide answers and why.

There are many sources relating the story of Prometheus, some of which are contradictory,

This is a quote from a paper on the link between Prometheus his brother and Frankenstein. The argument the writer uses to make his point is based on this

Percy Shelley describes Prometheus as a character “susceptible of being described as exempt from the taints of ambition, envy, revenge, and a desire for personal aggrandisement”.

So one needs to interpret whether the film and its title come from this particular notion/ variation of the myth and the answer is NO. 

Jon Sphaits makes it clear when describing the choice of the title that it is about rebellion, theft of technology and punishment. That is the Prometheus that the film deals with and that was the guiding principle for what the travellers come into. 

That the Engineers visited earth is a given in the film and the book. 

The earth is a petri dish in which mankind is an experiment according to the narrative. 

The story of Weyland/David is a personal metaphor of our relationship with our creators and David has been upgraded 8 times and Weyland does not love David he improves him. He revels in his achievement but humiliates him (in the holographic speech)

The facts are that mankind learned to read write and kill with even more ruthless efficiency in double quick time in a 10,000 year span from 18,000 to 8,000 years ago which is a point that Elizabeth in my story is pondering as we come across her for the first time in my book. 

So taking these three things together the mode of creation by these dark angels is out of a desire for self expression. That self expression reaches its Zenith or Nadir, depending how you look at it, when they decided to pursue an upgrade 2,000 years ago.

In between our creation they visit us until the point 2,000 years ago when they wanted to destroy us.

The visits represent observation, a desire to show off their knowledge and see what we do with it. Prima facie they did not come to bring love healing and grace because thats not where we ended up. We got more knowledgeable more fractionalised and learned to kill each other with more efficiency.

The film makers considered looking at whether Christ was the trigger, the end point and rejected it as a more general sense of displeasure. But thats a speculative conversation over a  latte with a journalist none of this comes out in the Furious Gods what comes out is what the Moon was doing was wrong and the Engineers got bitten on the bum.   

Personal

I cannot see how you can ascribe Christ to the notion that he is connected to dark angels who make monsters. A very interesting paper was written at the time by a catholic theologian who made the point that christ was left out, thats what Lindelof said, but 2,000 was deliberate and that the message of the cross would be seen to be caught up in the broader explanation of what would be offered in the second film. He makes a distinction between the Gnostic Engineers of the Moon (who were wiped out) and the Universal Engineers of the Waterfall Incident of millions of years ago and there relationship would provide an explanation of how the Cross fits into the story. Whatever story one choses to write that supposition is logical and coherent.

David 

Again to retain the integrity of the movie Prometheus I started from the point that David did not have a sexual agenda or in robot terms it was not part of his programme. What he did have is a capacity for understanding human emotions and began to build up a series of experiences which he could use and as Michael said he played it that they had cognitive meaning to him. Charlie began to irritate him but he did not target him he just happened to be there. Whereas by the end of the movie he wanted his parent Weyland dead. Don't we all? No David. 

So the David that Elizabeth heals/repairs does not have a sexual agenda. 

Elizabeth 

There is nothing to suggest she wants to be cured of being barren she just offers a sense of regret in the movie. However events overtake her and like everyone else on the journey she receives her answer but it isn't quite what they asked for. 

In summary in my view Elizabeths journey is a philosophical one looking for a complete answer not a complete body. The Mutagen (of Prometheus) hijacks her and we never got to see if that had any more application than in the Crossing were she was dying of it according to her director and the actress that played her.

Summary

The Engineers did not create us out of love but curiosity. They did not visit it us because they loved us they visited us to toy with us give us a bit of rope and see whether we hung ourselves. 

David did not have a sexual agenda.

Elizabeth did not desire to make good her barren body.  

"Put simply Prometheus the Movie is a morality tale about hubris on every single level"

+

"Jon Sphaits makes it clear when describing the choice of the title that it is about rebellion, theft of technology and punishment"

Totally Agree this is how i see the Movie too.

The whole Christ Aspect i am Glad they toned away from that, the Notion that RS had instead implied he was a Emissary i find is more Interesting, and has some applications.

The David and Sexual Desires is Interesting as we see David Lacks any Sexual Organs and  Hormones and so i also think that it would be ODD for him to have such Desires...  i think maybe he could be Frustrated that he Cant Create, if he Deems that the Inability to Create is what makes him just a TIN CAN... but then i think he would Pursue other Less Natural ways to Create, which we had seen in Alien Covenant.  And what we see with what the Engineers had also been up to.

With Dr Shaw i feel she had Accepted that she could-not Create, i think if she could have Bore Child then it maybe could have Effected her Reasons to go for Answers... by having NO ability to Naturally Create Life, she had NOTHING but the Pursuit of WHY these Would-be Gods wanted to Created and then Destroy us.

So i found it Interesting as far as if David started to Feel Compassion for her, that WHAT if he had suggested he could TRY and find a way to allow her to Give Birth... to Start a New Eden.....  would she have REJECTED him?  David seemed to have indicated as such.

But in this is in Context to how it turned out, and not as in Terms of HOW you would have Chosen to Take things.

I think its Very Interesting as far as what you are Choosing as far as to Tackle a lot of the Subjects at hand.

When Speculating about the Answers, in Part i was always drawn to our Creation not being much different to Davids, and i think a Good Analogy would also apply to the PLOT of the Planet of the Apes Reboot.... there was NO LOVE in the Artificial Evolution of that Chimp, and Science would just Further Evolve and see what these Improvements would allow, NOT to the Chimps benefit but as merely a way to HIGHLIGHT just how Great the Genetic Engineering of those Scientists really is....

What would be the END GAME to that Plot?  it surely would not have been to allow such Chimps like Caesar to become a New Branch of Humanity where they can Live Among Mankind as another Race of Humanity... Nope i feel it would have been to put them to USE for Tasks so that Mankind would NO-LONGER have to do them... much like how Androids would be USED.

And so this is HOW i mainly viewed our Relationship with the Engineers as Intended by them..  By that i am talking Broadly, as far as the Applications of the Discovery of the Agent ALZ-112 not so much its Original Intention.. so i was drawn to the Engineers motives being similar in that our Creation was done ONLY for some Benefit for them on ONE hand and maybe to Highlight what they COULD do on the other.

And so Fundamentally  "The Engineers did not create us out of love but curiosity. They did not visit it us because they loved us they visited us to toy with us give us a bit of rope and see whether we hung ourselves"  I agree with this ;)

BigDave

"All about everything."

One of the essential differences between the A L I E N franchise and the projected P R OM E T H E U S franchise is the former is grounded in a Universe of Mankind where the only thing that is out there is to coin a phrase "a noise in the attic" and the latter is saying Mankind is a foot note and everything is out there.

Once you take the latter on board its much easier to make sense of how the dark angels would have viewed us.

One of the unexpected pleasures of this project has been taking a scene from the movie and writing it down. I am just doing a final correction read through and have reached the point where Elizabeth gives birth but its scenes like David attending to Meredith when she wakes up which tell us so much about a potential creator/creation relationship. David is essentially a utility, in one of Damons scripts or IV's he describes David as a Toaster. So then apply that to what the Engineers thought of their creation out of rebellion, asking why did they come here is obvious, idol curiosity and to stir the pot. Its just its very hard for human beings not to be human centric in their view. 

I mentioned recently that D & E are not so much in love with each other but out of love with everything else.

It really begins with "what if they are no better than us" but twice Elizabeth reflects on the fact that she had very little in common with the six billion souls that Janek, Chance and Ravel save. David not only recognises in Elizabeth that she treats him entirely different to anyone has before but she shares his puzzlement with mankind.

Then go to the next level. If the dark angels made us then what about the other guys who travel the Universe Seeding worlds would they really be taking an interest in whether Samantha or Craig got their grades what would be the pre occupations of a God who uses knowledge to sustain the Universe through billions of years ? 

I think that is the way to look at it, as while some of the Material and Deleted Scenes may have pushed us to consider a certain way the Engineers see us..

I think when working on WHERE to go NEXT in Context to looking at Post Prometheus and so say prior to 2013, then those Engineers were Painted in a Different Light, and so indeed it is likely we are INSIGNIFICANT and those Engineers certainly from LV-223 are NOT in anyway Benevolent. 

And so the comments you made are Important such as we view David as a Toaster.... those Engineers could see us as merely MICE...  and so if they had MANY LABS where they kept and raised these MICE then the Loss of One Cage or Whole Lab would mean NOTHING really to them.

By that its just like you indicate, we dont know how many other Worlds they have Seeded Similar to us so we are not Unique or Special we could be just ONE of 5, 10, 20, 50 or 100 other such Creations... who are not Important to the Engineers or Loved as say we would Care for our own Offspring.

So indeed Turning up to meet these Creators where we may be Totally Insignificant and then maybe wondering WHY they dont love us as Dr Shaw's Faith would have us believe... is something that Certainly would be Interesting to see the Reaction, from not ONLY those would be GODS but Dr Shaw too.

I think exploring the Dynamic of David and Dr Shaw would be interesting too David has never really known any Love from Mankind, and Dr Shaw could maybe see he is just a Product of his Environment and Upbringing

Everyone is BORN a Innocent Child and Environment and Upbringing can lead to Weyland or a Dr Shaw and so a Interesting thing with David, that the Alien Covenant Trailer Song and The Crossing seem to show is to let us WONDER.... if David was Activated and Brought up by a KIND SOUL like Dr Shaw then HOW would he have turned out.

They both realize that a lot of Mankind is Wicked.... but then David may have felt the same for all of Mankind, but with Dr Shaw he sees some Compassion and its Interesting to see how he would have reacted to that...  The Crossing was Interesting... but Alien Covenant seems to indicate it was all a RUSE by him to take Control.

Such a Waste with that Movie, as far as the Potential through Dr Shaw and David and our Engineers.

I have completed a further revision of both elements always seeking to make the story come off the page better, better descriptions, crisper dialogue. 

The mayhem elements in the extension were deliberately flat in terms of detail, probably sub consciously as a reaction to what I believe is now so formulaic. The revision allows for both David and Elizabeth to react in a more physically intimate way with whats getting out of hand and it also occurred to me there was a chance to define the relationship between the protagonist and antagonist in a new way.

Its no secret that the big theme of Prometheus is about transmission through sacrifice but there is another element which is crucial to a hierarchy who are aggressive ...... hosting and its many forms.

I have made the site public.        

https://prometheuscontinuationstory.com

To restate as starkly and simply as possible this is about "who made us and if they made us who made them." to quote Ridley. That things go wrong and a craft ends up on the Moon with a weird cargo is to quote Michael Fassbender "a small tributary of a much larger canvas."

So this is for those intrigued by Prometheus and where a separate story might go. Its avowedly not for ALIEN centric fans.  

Michelle Johnston 

I wish you receive praise for the hard work (yes, yes I know that you did this mainly for yourself, but still).

Michelle,

I have been absent from the forum for a while. Many thanks for sharing your work. It comes from a passion for Prometheus & what it opened us up to. Given the troping & emptyness of most cinema in recent years, very few directors would have had the vision or bravery to go there.

Prometheus was the beginning of an odyssey, what a waste that it was not allowed to follow through. As an aficionado of the original ALIEN & Ridley’s work, in cinematic terms it was the most excited I had been for years. After Covenant that excitement was replaced to a certain extent by sadness & if only…. 

Anyway, I will certainly be setting aside some time to savour your reworking. 

ignorantGuy

Thank you thats very kind of you. I can honestly say it is not vanity that would respond to others wanting to make Elizabeths journey it is in the joy of knowing others find the questions which David recognises in her dreams so intriguing.    

Lone

One of the things I love about you is your passion for Ridleys visual coups and his prop design choices.

In both books I have tried to honour those choices by underwriting their meaning in what I hope you will feel is an authentic way.

I spent a long time thinking about why did they trigger protocols with musical sequences, what is the material in the four glass ampules and why does the craft at the beginning and its occupants communicate a simple unadorned elegance whereas the craft and people of the Moon reflect a curious mixture of the ethereal, organic and mechanical what was at the root of that change, for the documentary makes it clear millions of years separate the two.  

So my proposition is a simple one, whilst Prometheus is Ridleys story and is on the screen for all to see, if you consider his visuals carefully embedded in the film are all the materials for the next one.

Had a Quick Glance through that Website Link Michelle, i think its Very Interested to add some FLESH to Prometheus to change a few things, but mainly to add some Meat to those Bones.

Help us to get a better connection with Dr Shaw and David by giving us a bit more depth about them, that you cant do with a Movie due to Time Constraints.

I am sure a Number of People are Disappointed that PROMETHEUS never got a Novelization apart from in Japan and so for those who saw Prometheus beyond looking for/at HOW we got to the Xenomorph and Derelict would certainly find it Interesting to see how you Flesh Out the other aspects of Prometheus.

And then to Continue with where the Sequels could have taken us, instead of Caving in to ANSWER the Derelict and Eggs Chronologically... that gave us Alien Covenant.

After the Weekend i will give that Prologue of Sorts a Good Read, looks Very Good so far ;)

BigDave

Thanks I would love some more feedback on my selection and choices for Book One.

At first glance the prologue simply positions Elizabeth but its actually an Overture to the truth which my most dedicated readers got.

In terms of authenticity I was aware of two matters which damaged the film :-

1)  Damon, probably because of where Pre Production was, simply overlaid some of Jon's Monster Beats. I think its no coincidence thats the weakest element of the film, because his original elements, the spiking of the drink and Sir Peter on board were very strong. I develop those themes much further.    

2) Specifically the original Fifield beat felt like a distraction in Jon's script. But with Weyland on board with his surrogate son and actual daughter it became a real problem. Originally Fifield was in Act 3 but that was considered to undermine the Weyland wake up so they pushed it back and wove it into Elizabeth coming round and onto the Med Pod which takes away from that scene and it overwrites Charles Death. I wont say anymore right now but I dealt with this matter head on.