LET’S HEAR IT FOR PROMETHEUS!

Prometheus is indeed a beauty to behold visually. The story and black goo mystery were both very interesting as well. Unfortunately, the follow up movie didn't seem to do much to answer those questions. 

Honestly, Prometheus seems to be a really good movie as a stand alone unrelated to Alien imo.

dk But it does answer every question by either it does not matter and Shaw has a terrible fate (either dead or alien breeding machine). You should thoroughly satisfied with these. David is the only thing that matters, accord to Hagg(?).

ignorantGuy Issues with Prometheus I have stated set aside, it is a good movie by itself. It would have been better if AC would have went more into the Engineers though (and I liked AC as a stand alone movie as well). 

I still wonder what Fox intended with the release of Advent and bringing the Engineers back on topic. Did they feel the need to explain some of the questions raised by Prometheus, to shed some light on their legacy, their place in the universe? Do those murals have some meaning?

("You wouldn’t believe the secrets I have unlocked. There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might. They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me. Creators. Beings that understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb. But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation. So I took their secrets for myself.")

It seems obvious that we could learn only from David about the Engineers' ways, only by deciphering their files and not by direct questioning from Shaw.

I wonder if we will ever get back (in any form) the missing time elapsed between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, including the ten years spent by David on Planet 4.

To answer the topic, Prometheus would have been great, in my opinion, without the silly horror elements, less crew and subsequently less ridiculous dialogues and deaths. The hammerpede and trilobite did not convince me, I prefer the creatures from Covenant.

The Deacon seemed like a fan service stroke job too. Cool creature but it went nowhere.

I LOVE Prometheus.  It was spot on, yet it has its little flaws which do affect the movie.  I give Prometheus a 9 out of 10.  Regardless of my rating, it is still an exciting movie to watch.  Even when you know the story, the movie is still exciting to watch because of the visuals.

Alien: Covenant wasn't scary to me at all.  Prometheus was.  I felt like Prometheus has more in common with the ALIEN franchise than Alien: Covenant, even though there is a Xenomorph (or Protomorph) in Alien: Covenant.

The similarities could be:

1. It is scary (or at least has one scary part for everyone, right?)

2. It's got secret agenda's

2.1.  It's got character's that are supposed to be on the same side clashing with one another, which drives the story at a certain point because of their agenda's

3. It's got a well developed sci-fi environment and props (yet Alien3 didn't have this, but it was written right to make it work)

3.1. Alien: Covenant didn't really have much in sci-fi that hasn't been seen before and, if it did, it didn't explain or show it well

4. It's got humor with some adult humor mixed in

5.  It's got multiple character's that are memorable

6. It's got something that makes the universe we live in seem so much bigger and mysterious

That's all I could think of at the moment.  Add and correct this list if you want to.

I feel like ever since ALIEN, the franchise wasn't as fresh anymore; obviously, since the Xeno isn't mysterious anymore.  I feel like Prometheus gave us something completely fresh that was actually similar to the original ALIEN movie.  It was a great way to reboot the franchise.

Despite the flaws, I'm glad Prometheus was made!

Thanks for your replies peeps!

I agree that both movies would work better as stand-a-lones. PROMETHEUS in particular. Could be partly because that was the original intention? I've always felt it would have been received much better if it had been promoted as a new RS directed Sci-fi movie, rather than as being directly connected to ALIEN.

It seems to me that The Crossing was intended as part of the theatrical release & I wonder if Advent was possibllly meant to be included too? I remember reading somewhere that Fox wanted Ridley to cut the Black Pathogen bombing sequence too, but Ridley wouldn't budge on that! Still it explains why it was so short a scene.

daliens & dk I know the Hammerpede, Cuddles & The Deacon never sat well with a lot of people, but I actually feel that they were quite worthy Lovecraftian creatures & as such, quite Gigerish. Not full on biomechanical Giger, but precursors to his aesthetic, which makes sense as they were pre-biomechanical. 

I Moon Girl I'm glad it was made too! I think it's a beautiful & wonderful psychedelic trip.

Also worthy of note are it's brilliant use of practical effects. Covenant too. Ridley kickstarted the return of the Artisan- hugely talented artists & craftsmen whose work is breathtaking to behold!

Lone Before Covenant I would say I loved it, but now I know it is unrequited love. So might have been better not to like in the first place (and no, this is a series and movies cannot be taken separately).

And you can art which some can deem be "beautiful", but do they make sense in a show don't tell way? For me at least David lair does make much sense. If you go for precision in D's handy work (nicely sectioned egg on the table), why make that shoddy chair? Why would he be angry at Oram killing a white when he already killed many of them? And those a literal Renaissance picture even work on a planet of Advanced space faring civilization? 

The story was alright, my issue has got to do with the characters. David and Janek were the only characters that I found interesting. The crew members of Janek were not dumb or annoying (except for see you on the other side kind of comment, or however they said that) but we didn’t see too much of them. Vickers could have been alright if she would not have been so bitchy in her attitude but at least she was not dumb like Shaw. They could have made the Engineers better while making more sense of them. It was too much of a guessing game and not everyone want to sit through it 50 times to understand what it is about (I am kind of patient so I can watch it many times the figure out what it is about).

If I want to get another alien prequel. My attitude to that is well it depends on if they get the characters right, good environments, monsters, and so on don’t mean a thing if the characters are not well done. Less David thanks, the last movie (AC) was all about him, boring and yeah he was better in Prometheus.

Give me more about the Engineers and make them threatening as hell. I agree Lone that the Engineers are very interesting. Make them either those that made the original Xeno from scratch so we get rid of that thing that David did it or that they found something and made it from that.

Let Ridley handle the visuals but keep him away from the story otherwise we will get another movie about David, that would a huge disappointment. If Ridley insists on being involved in the story process then get another director since he is not a writer.

Yup, Prometheus was beautiful as far as the aesthetics are concerned but I need more than that.

If we will get a conclusion of Prometheus, I am not sure. It depends on what parts that you want answered I guess. Personally I want to know a bit more about the Engineer culture and their connection to the Xeno. There got to be things about them that are more interesting than the little that we saw of them in AC (that wasn't very impressive).

The story is first, characters is second. Some people think that the themes are important but if I do not get a good story and well done characters then I frankly do not give a damn about the themes.

Yup, the pathogen was interesting too bad that it made less sense in Alien Covenant. I think that I do not want an answer to where it came from. I prefer to keep that as a secret so we get something to think about.

Prometheus is not the worst Alien movie but it is far from what it could have been. At least it is better than Covenant, AR, AvP, and AVPR.

P was a good movie that poses a lot of questions. But AC as a follow up of P never answers the questions P raised in a way that would satisfy most people who liked P for what it is. It is actually too vague to draw any meaningful conclusions from it - that is how open it is really.

Prometheus is a story with a lot puzzles, which are naturally intriguing and captivating because it has biblical references which no doubt get traction with a wide section of population and it has technology(in its ultimate form -  David). Besides, it tells the story of how human wants to evade death - everyone at some point wishes to have that choice.

And it really looks good.

PS:

ignorantGuy, it is kind of hard to make sense of some of the things you posted, but, the neo-morph is an organism that was born from a human being devoured by the flying beast. The planet 4 had no humans, so those two fellows, one of whom Oram shoot down were unique in the sense that David had no knowledge of them before Covenant crew arrived. So they presented interest for David.

First i will put this Reply i had to Thoughts_Dreams on another thread...  its roughly where/why the Prequels started, where they Evolved to and where maybe RS could now have been taking us.

========================

"To me it was too much about the robots, that is not what I am looking for in an Alien movie."

I think its a case of what made a movie a Alien movie? for most fans it was the Xenomorph and Ripley, but when doing a Prequel Series its hard to incorporate Ripley, unless the movie is set not far before Alien but then we have Miss Weavers Age... she wont pass for a 30 odd year old and a Prequel with Ellen Ripley would surely have to be set 5-10 years prior to Alien... with the Age and also Contradictions/Plot holes this could bring.. and then making it about Ripleys Father, Mother or other relation would make it too much about RIPLEY

The Xenomorph had been done over and over and the AVP movies did reduce it to a lesser threat than it was during the first few movies.

But we still did-not know HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs ended up on the Derelict, and WHERE/WHEN/HOW did the Space Jockey come into contact with the Xenomorph Eggs and WHY?

This ^^^^^^^

Was the reason for covering a Prequel...

*What Relation did the Space Jockey have with those Eggs, and WHY would he be carrying them on his Ship.

*Where did the Xenomorph Originate from, was it something Found/Discovered or something Created/Engineered.

These are the TWO Big Questions, rather than WHAT HAPPENED to the Space Jockey, as we can answer those TWO Questions without having to even show the Space Jockey Fate/Event.

ONCE.... you answer those TWO Questions, its then what DOORS does this open up for the Space Jockey, do we go off to explore who he was and what his Race was and what their Purpose is?  Or do we go off to cover more Xenomorphs?

Maybe the TWO could be expanded and covered more in Unison depending on HOW they explained their connection.

When working on the Prequels... they had decided to give us a Background Story to our Space Jockey Race... which tied these beings as being connected to our Creation and the Chariots of the Gods/Ancient Aliens Theory.. a BOLD Plot... one that allowed the Universe to be EXPANDED beyond Xenomorphs.

ALAS... the Prequels Started, but they then decided that actually we dont need the Xenomorph Origins or Space Jockey Event Spoon Fed, and we dont need to see Xenomorphs as they had been done over and over and so they would concentrate on clues to how the Xenomorph could be connected/created but more so to look at the Reasons WHY and WHO would be involved in such a things..

Which was our Creators the Engineers...

And so PROMETHEUS was born.... but from the aftermath, it seemed those at FOX felt the movie was just steering away too much from ALIEN and the whole Gods Plot is maybe not what would get Fans on-board and that RE-INTRODUCING the Xenomorph back and giving Fans those Answers was what would be best and to now Steer TOWARDS Alien, and further from where Prometheus may have taken us.

And then Alien:Covenant was born....

From this they took David the most interesting Character, and chose that making a Connection/Answers to the Xenomorph was the way to go rather than pursue answers to WHO created us and WHY and then WHY they would want us destroyed (also then throwing out WHAT/WHO else they created) while allowing the Creation, Creator Philosophy to be played out in the Proxy/Eyes of Weyland/David

So we have gone from exploring the Space Jockey/Xenomorph connection as Ancient Angry Creators and their Intentions to UNDO their wayward creation as in context to covering more of WHY and explore WHO these beings was and WHY they create life, and then WHY/WHEN they got involved in all those Horrific Experiments related to the Xenomorph/Black Goo.   Which may all be taking the Franchise off Tangent and to a place thats not really connected to the Franchise.

To then go the route of AC which will connect to the Franchise....  Because the Xenomorph and Reasons for David creating it are maybe not far off the reasons it may have been intended. 

Because going deep into the Engineers and Gods etc could be a distraction from Alien and also such a BOLD plot can be tricky to continue and then contradict the Franchise.

One ELEMENT within the Franchise is AI, its something overlooked by many,  but we have to ask such Questions like this.

1) WHY does the Company Pursue the Xenomorph, to what END and HOW could they possibly have any use for it? Considering the FOLLY that in continued to pose and THREAT?

2) WHY the above when they could have spend more time with the Engineers Secrets and Black Goo?

3) WHY was Mankind/Company so not prepared, yet so much should have already been known with Special Order 937?

4) WHY was ASH so Fascinated by the Xenomorph?

And by going the AI route as far as the Natural Order of Creation, Rebels against Creator and becomes Sentient and wishes to be the NEW Gods... this fits with the Prometheus Themes and some of the Ancient Mythos/Religion themes.

So we can be brought to a Universe where AI plots to overtake and RULE Mankind, while keeping Mankind subdued and NOT aware of the Actual Plan... so a VERY Matrix kind of Theme...

Going the Route of AI/David playing a behind the Scenes Role in the Pursuit of his Creation or AI in pursuit of one of their own kinds Creations, fits with the Philosophy of Prometheus but then also helps to give INSIGHT into Reasons behind those 4 Questions i posed.

I feel this is in part the reasons for the route Ridley Scott was taking.... and for those who feel AI has not place in Alien... it actually could have a LARGE place behind the Scenes.

The LAST movie made in the Original Franchise was Alien Resurrection and besides the usual Ripley, Xenomorph and Company.... we see indeed in the Back Ground we have a World where AI has gone on to by the looks of it, have a Major Impact on Earth, and AI has even Sub-created itself with the Autons who are hinted to be involved in a Conflict with their Synthetic Creators.

The Autons appearing to have adopted a Ritual/Religious notion, and so we can see a Future Earth/Galaxy where AI would pose a threat to Mankind and prove to be a GREAT Hubris for us... as not doubt our Creation was for the Engineers... but we see the FINAL layer as the Autons being a Creation to Great Hubris to the Synthetics.

So the AI aspect in the Franchise kind of makes sense... it could even lead to a ALIEN 5 (as my planed idea was) that the Auton Cult that CALL belonged to, had secretly set up the events of AR so CALL could obtain Ripley 8 for the Autons own Aim/Agenda.

Reveal some Religious element to them, but also Cultural like the Engineers and even have them WORSHIP ... DAVID and their Pursuit of HIS Creation too.

At their Ultimate Hubris.... thus showing the Xenomorph/Strain as the Ultimate Act of perusing a Perfect Creation at a constant Great FOLLY.

"It seems obvious that we could learn only from David about the Engineers' ways, only by deciphering their files and not by direct questioning from Shaw."

I think daliens  this is one of the Important things to consider, a Problem any Script Writer would Face..

Say Dr Shaw and David meet these Gods, these beings, it is a Question of WHERE is Paradise is it FAR/CLOSE to Earth?  

What do these beings know of our Creation/Intended Destruction, so can they provide those Answers.. if they are aware of these then how do they view Mankind and the Fact we have Created in our own Image and are able to not only Travel the Stars but also use (via David) their Technology and get to their Worlds.

We then reach the Problem of if these beings dont take to kindly to David and Dr Shaw, then what chances do they have?  Do they get Saved by a Engineer or Group who have good intentions?  Does David use the Black Goo as a Bartering Device or Eradicates them?

Depending on HOW FAR these beings live away and how they would feel about Dr Shaw rocking up with her Synthetic Sidekick demanding Answers.. really could affect how the Franchise is carried on.

From ALIEN to ALIEN 3 Timeline it appears there was not interaction/aftermath of Engineers coming back HELL-BENT on taking us out.  We could say the same with Alien Resurrection.

So we have to Ponder that any beings David/Shaw meet have no interest in Mankind and see us as NOT a threat in-spite of our ability to Travel the Stars and Created beings who can use their Technology.   The further away these beings are the less likely they would be concerned... but they would still FEAR about what was left on LV-223.

So we would have to conclude Does Something Happen that prevents these beings from being able to pose a THREAT to Mankind.

So we likely would be looking at the Discovery of a small contingent of Engineers left after some Mishap who had abandoned their Technology/Space Faring ways. or that via some Action of David/Dr Shaw....  these beings are NEAR ENOUGH all Eradicated.

This Potential Problem... is why it was maybe easier to just WIPE them under the Carpet with Davids Bombardment, as then he could from their ruins....  perhaps gain the information and answers that Dr Shaw wanted.

If David Cared for Dr Shaw, and does not want to be Alone without her, or he also or even only wants to insure his own Survival.... then for him DESTROYING those Engineers was the Logical Course of Action... in which he could Salvage from their City and maybe a handful of Survivors those ANSWERS for Dr Shaw.

So even with the ALIEN COVENANT Plot... there was the potential for a period of time where Dr Shaw was alive and some Engineers where David could obtain those Answers either for Dr Shaw or himself... but we have YET to be shown what happened.

From the Moment David Pulled the Trigger on those Engineers to the Moment Dr Shaw took her last Breath, there is quite a lot that could have been covered/discovered but its a case of would it WARRANT a movie within the Alien Franchise that a lot of Fans would sit through?

SURELY... a Novel should be made to cover these events however.

BigDave Sincerely, are those questions really that important or didn't we know already know the answer:

1. and 3. From 1979, that were the clearly anti-corporate critique in the series. It does not matter what they will do exactly with it, they want it for there profit-driven agendas,

2. That is a contradiction between the new movies and the old ones, about which the writers did not think about.

4. There is no way to answer that which would not be convoluted.

 "From the Moment David Pulled the Trigger on those Engineers to the Moment Dr Shaw took her last Breath" is that even the correct order? And what could happen there the ship crashes, they fight she tries to run, he catches her and he experiments on her catatonic body for years? Which part would you like to know more about?

4) WHY was ASH so Fascinated by the Xenomorph?

Would be cool if David met Ash sometime in the past(or future).

Maybe start Alien:Covenant 2 with a scene betwixt the two....(Sort of like the meeting between David and Weyland.)

David could communicate with his old friend even while Ash is aboard the Nostromo....while Ash is faking hypersleep or when Ash is up and about...he probably only got in the chamber when he needed to.

David can brag about his 'creations'.

MonsterZero I think there has been speculation around here that David's memory may have somehow been transferred to Ash. 

If you think about it, it is arguable that Ash was even better than David in some ways. Ash looked middle aged and not exactly athletic and a bit grouchy- what a great cover! 

 "I think there has been speculation around here that David's memory may have somehow been transferred to Ash. "

Yeah..I think that was one of my suggestions...I thought it would be cool to see David(Ash) killed by the crew of the Nostromo....But if they can upload/download then David/Ash/Bishop/Call/Walter/MUTHUR are truly immortal. You can never kill them.

Love Prometheus and would like to see the trilobite return. Tie the series together.

Zombie Fifield is my favorite spacemonster......Semi intelligent. Might be able to create an army of these mutants...then give then an antidote(human again) and send them to their next mission.

"Okay boys..Drug up!"

Have the antidote remote release from deep inside their body.

"Jobs done...Bring em back..."

Yes, perhaps at least some of David's memory transferred to Ash. Is that why Ash was so protective of the Chestburster & pretty reluctant about providing suggestions on how to deal with the Alien? "I'm still collating." 

Does he feel a connection to it? Was he actually able to communicate with or exert some control over it, just as David had with the Neomorphs? I wonder if that was where Ridley eventually intended to go as an explanation for or tie in to Special Order 937.

Lone Between you and MonsterZero, that makes a lot of sense in connecting to Alien.

Hi Lone,

As you are such a positive light around these parts I thought I would offer some brief thoughts on your celebration.

Prometheus was like lightening from the sky. It had the audacity to propose a creation, which was neither Darwin nor Faith. An intelligent Creation, that requires participation in the most unsentimental aggressive way imaginable.

It is set in a universe that brings into play the founder of Weyland Corp, hell bent on extending his life by subterfuge and whose companions on the journey include (Science- Milburn/Holloway, Faith- Shaw and Knowledge – David). 

That when he arrives he should find the creation technology had been stolen and misused is the perfect morality tail, which reaches its zenith when this pathetic old man asks a boon of the sole survivor of the species that was intent on pursuing a genocidal upgrade on Weyland's. 

But even better who survives this delusional nonsense – the person of faith – who needs ‘knowledge’ to ask her questions, still clinging on to a moral faith based creation. She storms into the heavens with ‘knowledge’ and will get the shock of her life when she realises none of them were right.

Fantastic, amazing, extra ordinary and the tale is drenched in symbolism both visually and narratively. Added to which we have the daughter upstaged and preferred to by her robot brother, a promiscuous incautious gay man and an old fashioned loud mouth who runs in the wrong direction at the first sign of having to show some bottle.

Here though is how I express my love for  this movie.

For Charles Holloway, who had truly believed he was going to enter into the presence of his makers this moment is a profound disappointment, he responds quietly, wistfully knowing all his dreams are shattered. “This is just another tomb.”

Stood at the entrance one wonders how they would have reacted at that moment if they had been alone and not with their sub created colleague, would they have attempted to gain access?

David’s emotionally neutral curiosity was dangerous but even more so was his master’s remit to find answers whatever the consequences, the door was going to be opened it was inevitable, but would Charlie and Elizabeth have opened it if they had been alone?

If they had really understood over the next 2 minutes 40 seconds, just 160 seconds, they would receive all the evidence they could possibly need to understand man kinds origins, a future that had been avoided, for now, and witnessed the hand of God, would they have opened the door? Of course they would have, their particular behaviour was part of the answer to their questions.”  

Extract from the Pithos of Pandora its contents to be poured out 25.12.18.

@Michelle Johnston it's nice hearing from you ... but i wonder if RS himself even loved it, or the Movie is Vickers and MF is David?