"Aliens" , the worst "Alien movie" ever

"Because I wasn't offered it. They just made a sequel that featured my characters without asking me or making a copyright deal with me. They don't even mention my name anymore. But maybe that's a good thing - there's nothing to lose with crappy movies."

That is awesome! Giger is the franchise. 

Gives me impetus to complete my A L I E N I I script.

The LAST IMAGE goes to show that IF the Bottom of the Derelict was Extended Out as so, then the Egg Chamber would FIT fine ;)

Anyway Andy77 i Understand where your coming from....

Your looking at the Vision of Dan O'Bannon's idea, which YES i am sure when he had Envisioned and Wrote his Work that became Starbeast it was NOT set up for a Sequel but a STAND ALONE Movie.

Which is maybe WHY we did have RS suggest their be NO SURVIVORS apart from the ALIEN itself.   The Story did Leave some Mystery though...

1) More about WHAT became of the ALIEN Civilization.

2) What becomes of that World after.. as its STILL there with the Pyramid, Eggs/Spores.

The Space Jockey (well who became it) was just a Footnote at this Stage.

So it NEVER had a ENDING that would SEAL the Option for Sequels, the First Movie to do this was ALIENS.  Which seemed to Indicate that thats the END of the Derelict and Cargo!

which then Led to Alien 3 to come up with a WAY to get the Xenomorph back that was Riddled with Plot Holes and then came another END... which then Alien R came along to give us the Xenomorph again in a WAY that makes Little Sense. These came about because the STUDIO thought you need RIPLEY.

But i think O'Bannon had made his STORY to be much like the THING... at the END of the THING we are left with McReady and Childs as the Survivors... it was LEFT a Mystery to what Happens Next....  is ONE the THING? Does ONE go and KILL the other Thinking they are the THING?  Are NONE the THING and they will both Freeze to Death?  Or do they have a Happy Ending....

It was left to be Unknown....... We then had the EVENTS that Happened Prior to the Movie as FAR as WHAT had Happened to the Norwegian Camp, was also a MYSTERY..... but ONE which they Attempted to Address with the Prequel.. (should have left it a Mystery).

And so i dont think O'Bannon had ever thought there would be SEQUELS... and i know some ALIEN FANS, would rather had seen ALIEN become just a STAND ALONE.

So Andy77 i think you view is looking at HOW the Movie had Changed from the IDEA that its Creator had (Dan O'Bannon) i know he was HAPPY and Wanted to have HR Giger in to Design the ALIEN.... but he was NOT a Fan of making the Derelict Ship and the PLACE where the Eggs/Spores were Stored as being CONNECTED.

He Felt the Derelict and its Pilot should have been a Separate/Unconnected Race to the ALIEN SPORES that were in the Pyramid.  He also wanted to see the Egg Morph Scene included.

But the STUDIO had Purchased the Script.... it then went through some Changes and then RS had liked the Work of HR Giger and had him come in to Design the Pilot, the Derelict and the Egg Storage Chamber.... which then all had that SAME kind of Aesthetic... so a Connection was MADE.

Where the Studio and RS then Decided the Story would Evolve to take into Account of that Connection and THUS the Eggs became a Creation of the Space Jockey but it was NEVER shown On-Screen.

So all that Mainly Carried over (apart from PLOT) was the LIFE-CYCLE and ACID BLOOD of the ALIEN.  The Pilot/Ship and its Role had been Changed, the Location of the Eggs and their Role had been Changed.

Maybe HR Giger should have Designed the Egg Chamber and the ALIEN and then for the Derelict/Pilot they should have USED someone else.... but for me the DERELICT/SPACE JOCKEY and Egg Chamber are the MOST ICONIC Scenes of the Franchise.......a ENIGMA (The Face Hugger, Chest Buster and First Time we see our ALIEN too) ... until the Prequels.

".....the DERELICT/SPACE JOCKEY.."

That works for me. 

the "..Egg Chamber"

does not and will always confuse me.

If David planted the eggs. then it works. The eggs are fresh and new...not thousands of years old and somehow haven't fossilized.

Plus.... The facehuggers are meant for 5 to 7 foot humanoids, anything bigger ( or different head shape )render them useless. Clearly they were designed to murder humans.....A 13 foot SPACE JOCKEY would laugh at such a tiny bug.

Instead of an egg chamber, make the derelict a passenger ship. Fill it with the fossilized remains of pilgrims on their way to worship. The passengers could have Eggmorphed....( but I would still dump the whole egg nonsense)

BigDave

The advantage of Alien is that in the confusion in making movie gives room for imagination. So it's an advantage especially for directors who want to cash in on the success of others.

I think if Ripley had died, there would have been a way to make a sequel. It's just that the film fascinated a lot of people.
It's ironic that Cameron only made such nonsense (Aliens) because Alien offered unprecedented possibilities. And yet JC was the one who wanted to make a splash. I mean, look at me, there won't be another one Alien. And as we know, there was. And there certainly will be. Whatever.
I love a mystery, and Alien is great when it stays one. I mean, I don't want to know the details. Explanation. In past I wanted. Not today. Alien is absolutely perfect the way it is.
Ship and cave

The artificial "cave" in which the egg is found and spaceship are the same view? I mean that many people doesn't care so much about the resemblance. They enjoy it as a thing of beauty.
I wouldn't change anything about Alien. Maybe one little thing. Ripley's sentence about guns in the context of Alien. It's meaningless. But even that doesn't matter.
Movies that have to explain open endings of another movies bother me. Yes, The Thing ended for me with both of them standing in ruins. In fact, I've forgotten what the stupidity of the prequel was all about. And it's good.
Giger made something that's gonna be a hit. Even if we do fly among the stars, Alien will not be forgotten.

MonsterZero,
You're a man who accepts an alien universe. I mean, all parts, including the new RS movies. And you're thinking about it. You accept it as a gradual reveal. Both into the future (Aliens...Alien R ) and into the past. (Prometheus, Covenant). Okay that's your approach and it makes sense. You're looking for how it all connects. You're trying to make it one big whole that's clear. I mean, the basics.

That's not my approach. For me, Alien began with flight of Nostromo and ended when Ripley fell asleep. Anything created after that has nothing to do with it.

I'll give you an example. King Kong. A great monster from 1933 (?). Godzilla. Amazing monster from 1954. They have beginnings and endings. Godzilla is killed by a substance that dissolves the cells released by the scientist in the water below. Kong kills himself by falling off a skyscraper. Each at a different time in a different place.

Successful movies. And so many Godzillas and many King Kongs were made. And someone thought. Okay, it'll be great to have them fight each other. MDe movie. First in Japan now US version.but with King Kong and Godzilla movies has nothing to do  

That's exactly how the other Alien movies are working for me. Not just AvP, but ALL of them.

So yes, if you accept what's in the other Alien movies you're undoubtedly right. To me what is outside the original film is irrelevant. Let whoever makes whatever they want. But yes, I'd love to see it. However, anything that contradicts (like swapping an alien skeleton for a spacesuit) I ignore. I don't care. It doesn't answer the questions for me. Just like the plot of AvP. But I like to watch.

MonsterZero,
I agree with letting RS continue his version of the Alien origin explanation. I agree that it's very interesting. It allows those viewers who want clarity to get their bearings.
Besides, it's an interesting thema. Humanity as a creation of another civilization. Dilems creator versus creation. David's attempt to create a new being. I'll just have this reservation. None of this was in the original script or in the thoughts of either O Bannon or RS.

But that's okay. What strikes me are these questions.
1) Why doesn't the Covenant team use spacesuits on an alien planet and behave worse than visitors to the wilderness where are poisonous snakes and beasts. In Africa, for example. They go there like a walk in the park.

I don't understand what kind of group of people David bombed. It looked like some kind of splinter group, a sect that lives outside of mainstream civilization. Like the Amish. Can we expect to meet the creators or does RS mean that David wiped out everyone? Bizarre notion.

Your reasoning about Alien as a means of killing people is incomprehensible to me. Such a complicated system when Creator can use bomb like the one David dropped on that town. The only way the Aliens could wipe out humanity is if, like Godzilla, they survived a nuclear bomb. The lAliens would have less of a chance against Earth's military than, say, the Taliban. We already have drones, perfect weaponry. The Alien is great for a spaceship where the crew has harpoons and homemade flamethrowers. Not on the battlefield. The Alien version of JC who gets shot by combat rifles.

Whatever Scott wanted to do to close his Alien picture, he probably wouldn't be able to do it. Covenant 2 has been postponed to an unknown time, and RS is at an age that doesn't allow for big plans. If it ends up being a Covenant storyline, it's possible to make own theories. No certainty.

By the way. You accept the version where RS presents Alien as an artificial creation. How do you feel about the possibility of connecting the Alien and Predator universes. I mean, the Predator tech civilization uses Aliens as test animals. So the Predators could be the ones who worked with the Aliens. If we're going to use a lot of fsntasia.

What do you expect Covenant 2 to bring if it comes out. What should it bring to fit the last piece of the puzzle.

If you have the time and inclination, write me your version of the puzzle, the history of Alien. I mean the events in the movies before Alien as it fits together. Thank you.

BigDave, my opinion is. Giger = Alien. Without him, the film would be forgotten. Let's just say someone else would have been in of the design. And the monster or the derelict would look like this. Who would remember that? It would be just one of many space monster movies. The best script, idea and direction are useless unless they're well visualized. Without Giger, this movie wouldn't be a cult.

"The facehuggers are meant for 5 to 7 foot humanoids"

They Certainly seemed to Suit a Host that had a Head like a Human, i would say they would be able to Face Hug a Humanoid between 4-8ft Ideally, but then in ONE of the ALIEN 3 Cuts we are shown that a COW was Face Hugged.

So this does-not mean its Limited to Humanoids but i would think that it would STRUGGLE and not be Efficient with Certain Organisms depending on their Head Size etc.  So it would seem to make sense that they was DESIGNED to Infect a Specific Species and well Humanoids like Engineers even up to 10ft would be something a Face Hugger could Grasp/Wrap around.

So to Infect a 13-15ft Being would be Hard... Never-mind a 21ft+ as some still Consider the Space Jockey as.....

But we have to Remember that the Movies can have FLAWS.... there are things we have to OVERLOOK...

So we have to ACCEPT a Face Hugger could Infect our Space Jockey as above....

Another GOOD POINT is the Eggs being Dormant... they are Organic and the Face Hugger is too, and so it makes more SENSE that they have been on LV-426 for Decades, or Centuries but as FAR as Thousands of Years that would seem ODD but the Egg Chamber and maybe Myst could ACT as some kind of Suspended Animation for them?  Like a Giant Cryo-Pod.

@Andy77

I see what you mean, yeah everyone is Entitled to Accept what they like as Canon or what is NOT ;)

And to be FAIR.... it was ONLY when i had ALIEN on DVD and had Seen the Concept Works of HR Giger and being able to STUDY the Space Jockey Scene in Detail as well as the Prop..... which is when it seemed to NOT be a Skeleton to me.

Prior to that the Head looked more Skeletal to me... but the Hose/Snorkel just looked ODD... i did think was this some kind of Breathing Device/Snorkel that attached to the Body then to Chair via the Body... which then it made me think well maybe the BODY apart from the Head is  a SUIT as it looked ODD for a Skeleton.

Maybe its a Not Quite Humanoid in a Space Suit, or then even a Bio-Mechanical being like the Xenomorph?   The Problems come from the COLOR... it looks like BONE but then so we ask is a Large Part of the Chair also BONE?

But in the late 90's when i Studied the SJ and Concepts then to me i was thinking so its a Bald 13ft Humanoid in the Chair... and when we get to the Prequels they went for the same Concept (HR Giger).

But IF we threw all the Movies Out apart from ALIEN and you ONLY go by the Movie so you IGNORE ALL the Comments by Production etc, Drafts and Concepts then the Space Jockey is something that YES i think MOST would have seen as a SKELETON...

I would have LIKED if it was down to me to have seen the SJ as a Bio-Mechanical Entity, there are Drawings/Art by HR Giger where he has Entities like the SJ in them and so i think thats WHAT the Space Jockey should be...

I Totally Agree that WITHOUT the Designs by HR Giger then ALIEN would NOT have been as Iconic as it is.

BigDave. Here's the problem. Giger was a genius. His entire work is incredible. BUT. He painted 99% of everything with pistol. And - Women, sex, anything as a mixture of MACHINE, SEX and DEATH. In the interview he says: I love women because in the future there's only sex and death and I'm afraid to die. Who doesn't? Technik symbolize future  death is destiny for any living organism and sex is joy in time between birth and death  this i reason for the mixture.  

So his genius in this regard (SJ) has backfired on him. I mean, I think it fooled the audience. They see the technical element and they're looking for a spacesuit. No. It's just that all Giger's ever created are BIOMECHANOIDS. That's what he called it.

So it's an illusion. Yes, that's what RS used when he made Prometheus. Giger wasn't looking for logic in design. Why would the ship's corridors look like giant bones? It makes the whole ship look like a bio-orgasm where the flesh has rotted away and the bones remain. You see. Even that would be an idea for an Alien universe movie.

After all, look at Alien. I saw his sculpture when Giger had an exhibition in Prague. So many parts of his body look mechanical. That's just Giger's design. And no one is speculating if Alien is in a spacesuit or mechanical.  A lot of these apparent hints about SJ and room with eggs are because people don't know Giger's entire body of work.

No, I'm not at all suggesting that the SJ is a astronaut. Dallas makes it clear. The bones are bent outward. It's all fossilized. It must have been here a long time.

Thebeggs. A creature like Alien could make it last. Look at the fog. The heat in an environment where the frost was well below zero.

That's why I don't even consider the egg room part of the ship. Yes, anything is possible. Alien vs Predator, King Kong vs Godzilla. But originally in the movie, it's an underground room. The feelings of similarity are again a result of Giger.

Btw did you see his concepts for Harkonen's fortress. Logic doesn't play a role in Giger's. And is also what made the (in my opinion crazy) idea of making SJ the pilot of the ship possible.as far as I could judge it is under the medical machine (CT tunnels are pretty big too. Radiation machines against cancer are also. What do we know about extraterrestrial technology?)

Yes, the comment about the facehugger being a manhunter is interesting. Until we remember the cow from Alien 3. Surely such a germ-laying creature has the skills to cope. He's on tour. Yes it probably wouldn't be able to infect a Tyrannosaurus but it may have only reacted to a warm blooded organism who knows. He really wouldn't have a problem with SJ.

Another idea, by the way. In examining the wreckage there should be an alien created from the crew of the derelict. Where did it go? Did he die? Question after question.

TBiomechanoid

Look at this. If you stay near the statue (thats not my photo sadly) you can see mechanical elements. Giger. Thats all. 

I think the PROBLEM with the Franchise is the FIRST MOVIE had seemed to SET the Scene.... Frame the Franchise, and even the Final Product had gone through Changes compared to the ORIGINAL DRAFT.

There was a LOT of Mystery with ALIEN.

When we got Sequels and New Directors and Writers then you are Faced with the Franchise being Continued/Expanded in Ways that WONT PLEASE everyone.

I know MANY were Very Disapointed with ALIEN COVENANT but when you LOOK at it Deeper and theme Theme/Plot then things do START to make Sense as FAR as if we look back at ALIEN.

The ONLY PROBLEM will be the Size of the Space Jockey and Convincing People that the Derelict and Pilot have ONLY been on LV-426 for UP TO 10 YEARS........  Unless God Forbid..... TIME TRAVEL.

"What do you expect Covenant 2 to bring if it comes out. What should it bring to fit the last piece of the puzzle"

I think RS has hinted at the SET-UP.... there will be Returning Engineers at some Point, there will be incoming Human Ships (2-3), It seems that Potentially the FINAL PART of the Xeno-Jigsaw will be the Mechanical Element from a Synthetic.... this is Speculation.

It would seem that the Xenomorph of Davids will go through some Upgrades/Evolution and then these EGGS will get on-board the Derelict... which to me would INDICATE that a Engineer Ship would either.

1) Be taking them to LV-223 to Study but ONLY gets as FAR as LV-426

2) Have been Mass Produced/Engineered on LV-223 and then the Ship is about to LEAVE but it ONLY gets as FAR as LV-426

Regarding the Space Jockey i think it does-not make a LOT of Sense as a Skeleton, ok it has a Rib-Cage but so does the Corridors and Walls of the Ship and these are NOT like Bone Color but a Grey Color.  They incorporated this Color (Grey) into the Space Jockey Suits in Prometheus.

Above we see the TOP ROW are some Fan Art on Speculating what the Space Jockey would look like, the TOP RIGHT design could Actually Work if the Snorkel was Shown to NOT be a Part of the Creature but it kind of looks like it, and we have the Glass/Helmet which is Present on the Concept by HR Giger but does-not appear in the PROP.

The Bottom TWO are from the Comics.....

From a Biological Standpoint its a BIT STRANGE for a Organism to have some TRUNK that then Attaches to its Lower Chest/Rib-cage.....  WHY?

Its just a Aesthetic Design.... maybe we are NOT supposed to Speculate about its Functionality.

However with the NOTION that what we have is a Space Suit then it makes PERFECT SENSE.

When i look at the Areas i have made Arrows and Circles and Compare to the Concept then these seem to IMPLY some Mechanical Connection to the Chair and NOT any Organic... the Areas of the JOINTS (the Yellow Arrows) do-not look like what you would Expect from Skeletal Joints.

When i look at HR Gigers Concepts for the Face Huggers and Mural i can see a Connection, like the Mural is a Evolution Design wise and the Space Jockey Concept is a Further Evolution/Change.

IF we take it as a Skeleton (as YES prior to HR Giger thats what we was Supposed to get) then the Wires etc must be Buried into the Skin and Attach to the Bone....

This may seem Bizarre but HR Gigers Style is Bizarre.... more Mechanical than the Organic Space Jockey that some see it as.....

For ME the Ideal Conclusion before we had the Prequels would be that the Space Jockey is a Bio-Mechanical Being, it has more in Common with the Xenomorph than a Humanoid, Mammal or any Organism......

This i FEEL would have FITTED WELL... but YES it would have Gone Against the Idea that O'Bannon had..... a Skeleton of a None Connected Species.

And WHILE we have the Bone Color of the Space Jockey (but also the Chair in Parts) and While the FACE (Minus Snorkel) and Rib-cage.... look like a Skeleton to a Degree..... and the Original Idea before HR Giger Designed the Space Jockey was a Skeleton...

Then People are Free to Interpret as such. ;)

I don't consider Prometheus/Covenant to be stupid. It's interesting if I forget the Alien realities. I can't do that, unfortunately. So I'm watching it as an interesting demonstration of the path that can be taken. How everything can be turned around and remade.
I can never tell: Oh, that's how it was. But I'm curious to see what they come up with. Definitely more interesting RS ideas than the carnage in Aliens or the star pirates in Ressurection. So I'm curious. I'm just worried that Covenant 2 won't be realized anymore.

To your points. If Giger wasn't doing the design one might wonder about the mechanical elements on SJ. I wouldn't hesitate.

But I know Giger and I can find mechanical looking parts on Alien too see photo. He just couldn't and wouldn't do anything but biomechanoids. It was his style. Yes, we can find a lot of things in SJ. But as you so humorously pointed out, we have no idea what he looked like. At the time of Alien 1979. After that, in Prometheus it was Scott's intention to change everything

Giger was assigned to do a dead alien. And he did it in his own style, brilliantly. Biomechanoid style. But I wouldn't speculate on whether the creature was meant to be biomechanical. I take that as a consequence of Giger's style. But when it was attacked by the Facehugger, I'd consider it more of a living being. A life similar to ours.

The word bone is clear. If the three astronauts in room with SJ skeletons suspected anything, they'd say something. Not simply a corpse. And hint, "the bones are bent outwards". I think a Stegosaurus would look very bizarre. Armour on the back.

I take it all as an artist's statement. But it provided RS to do it another way. A different series. And those who take it seriously just have to take RS's explanation seriously. And adjust their idea of Derelict SJ and Alien.

Fortunately, I don't. But I'm waiting with interest to see if there's anything to the movie BUT NEVER CHANGE my view on Alien. 

"I don't consider Prometheus/Covenant to be stupid."

Yeah i meant that some Fans were Disappointed and Especially with AC, but you will get this Problem with ANY kind of Movie they do in the Franchise... if we had Blomkamps Alien 5, it may have Pleased the Ripley Fans, a Big Proportion of the ALIENS Fans but then it would have Displeased those who liked Alien 3 or those who think you have to ACCEPT what we got on Screen and then ATTEMPT to FIX it rather than to REBOOT etc.

Alien Resurrection came about because they wanted another ALIEN Movie and they thought that WELL... with the Ending of ALIENS and ALIEN 3 there are NO-MORE of the Eggs, and also they had THINK of HOW do we bring back Ripley.

I would be TOTALLY against them Rebooting any of the Movies, Especially if its to GIVE US a Alternative Alien 3 etc... to bring back Ripley!.....

I would NOT be against a COMPLETE REBOOT though.... if its done as a ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE where you can have the Xenomorph, where the ALIEN Franchise as it Happened does-not Exist.... but were you could have the Xenomorph and the Weyland-Yutani Company (or introduce another) so we can VIEW this as a Alternative Universe which is HOW we should View the AVP Franchise and HOW i see the Comics.

IF we did get a Complete Reboot though.... i think it would be more of a Camerons Hive/Bug World... than being close to O'Bannons Original.. and i bet they would give us a RIPLEY but use a Different Actress....

I have always said and done MANY TOPICS about it..........

Regardless of the Franchise and Prequels... there is ONE QUESTION to Answer.

Was the DERELICT the ONLY such Ship that had a Egg Cargo?  If NOT then where have the others GONE.....     and so THIS is where you could take another ALIEN MOVIE.

Regarding HR Giger while we see HR Giger doing his Bio-Mechanical Style on all that he Works On, there are Elements in his ART that we see Influences on the Space Jockey which are some Twisted Bio-Mechanical Strange beings....

But there is that GOOD POINT regarding IF we saw the Space Jockey as Bio-Mechanical and Especially if Related to the Xenomorph.... and that would BE..

HOW CAN THE SPACE JOCKEY BECOME INFECTED!

So then i guess that leaves us with TWO OPTIONS.

1) Indication of a Bio-Mechanical Suit which we have seen in HR Gigers Concepts.

2) Interpretation that its a Organic Organism with a Trunk that is then Infused to the Chair with Various Wires etc... as Interpreted by some of those who Worked on some of the Comics from 90s.

I think the Franchise has Disappointed Some with HOW its Gone...

HR Gigers Aesthetic is Iconic.... some of the idea of Dan O'Bannon were Good but our Xenomorph is just NOT the STARBEAST.... not anymore..

This Mural was always Interesting it was Supposed to be Placed above the Egg Chamber and Over Each Section, where there would be a Contraption that would CREATE the Eggs.

HR Giger and Considered the SHIPS to be Grown, he also Suggested the Egg Chamber would Produce the Eggs... looking at his Mural then it seems to show a Xenomorph in the Shape of a Derelict, which you could Interpret this as the SHIP has a Genetic/Connection to the Xenomorph, it also seems to look like the SHIP would Produce the Eggs.

We have those Humanoids who Sacrifice themselves to the Xenomorph.....

The Idea that Starbeast has Evolved to, would indicate the Space Jockey Race had Created this Technology and the Ships, the Egg Chamber etc.....

But you could FLIP THIS.... by showing the Space Jockey/Engineer are Actually either a Enslaved Species or Created Species by something that Predates the Xenomorph....

You can Re-introduce the STARBEAST....

@BigDave

“For ME the Ideal Conclusion before we had the Prequels would be that the Space Jockey is a Bio-Mechanical Being, it has more in Common with the Xenomorph than a Humanoid, Mammal or any Organism......”

I agree. It would be one hell of an improvement on a suited Engineer.

The “snorkel” certainly looks odd, but it is very much in keeping with Giger’s bondage aesthetic that shows up in many of his pictures. The creature is bonded to the chair, and there’s no way out for it. The creature is defined by the chair and vice versa. Giger knows very well this symbiosis will discomfort the audience. For me, it induces claustrophobia.

Certainly...

You can see some Influences in this Image, inc the Influences on the Space Suits in Hr Gigers Mural for ALIEN that was Never Used.

If it was DOWN to me i would Consider introducing a 10-12ft  Alien Species as ABOVE who are the Creators/Enslavers of the Engineers.

Really? How was it clear that she died at the end of Alien? And saying that Cameron took a almost unkillable creature and turned it into a beatle you can kill with a shotgun? Umm did you watch alien? The whole thing? Thay had no weapons. They were not on a marine carrier full of weapons. They had to make a weapon. So your entire thought process is damaged. 

Holy crap really? The alien imitating Ripleys voice if that was suggested should have been taking out the whole idea is stupid. Even if they didn't take that out what would they story been? 1 alien comes to earth?? Boring 

Ash says: You can't kill it. You don't know what you're dealing with. He knew full well they had flamethrowers.
Alien at the end goes into the spacecraft's thrusters and is only ejected by pressure when the engines are turned on. It won't burn. The shot is repeated.
Dallas is found with  empty flamethrower. Parker: This flamethrower needs a new charge. It's safe to assume he fired on the Alien.
A flamethrower can kill monsters like polar bears. But even the spacecraft's thrusters don't work on the Alien.
A bunch of Marines with rifles were shooting Aliens like cattle in a pasture. Vasquez with a pistol. It's completely stupid. Aliens would be easier to hunt in the forests of Earth than bears or lions.
Nobody's saying that Alien should have come to Earth. Ripley should have died and the pile of garbage that was filmed later wouldn't have happened. And that would have been great.

Uhhh the marines were slaughtered by the xenomorphs, also Vasquez unloaded an entire pistol clip into that xenomorph warrior, it was still pretty tough. Yes we see xenomorphs gun down but are they actually dead? They may have just got knocked down from the impact of the pulse rifle...aside from the ones Ripley killed in the hive.

Also Ash was pretty much worshipping the xenomorph at that point of the movie and he is capable of lying and withholding information.

Boo this man, throw rotten eggs upon him, curse his endeavors to fail, lol.
For real though, I'm a huge AvP nerd and Aliens is so far the GOAT...unfortunately.  I first remember seeing it when I was like 7 or 8 but as I watched it, some things were familiar, so I know my actual first time was before I had a fully functioning memory.  I've seen it countless times since, heck just watched the directors cut AGAIN 3 weeks ago with my roommate who hadn't seen the theatrical release since he was a teenager.  
Now Alien 3, that's a poster child for how to not make a movie.  Kill off Newt and Hicks right out the gate?  WTAF!  Even the director wishes he had never made it.  Now, Charles Dutton, Sigorney, and Jeremy Irons were fantastic and given that they started filming with NO SCRIPT, I gotta give the whole cast props on their improvisation.  
TBH, I understand the first movie is necessary viewing to the uninitiated, but I always get kinda bored with it.  Very few movies scare me for even a second, Alien no exception.  Poor John Hurt though, he dies in the worst ways possible in every role.  Not cluing in the rest of the cast on what was about to happen was a stroke of genius.

I don't this increasing amount of hate that ALIENS is getting, did people forget about Alien Resurrection or the AVP movies?

AvP is good fun for me. I don't have an aversion to this movie like I do to Aliens, A3 etc. Aliens vs Predator has its own world. It has its rules. It doesn't touch the original Alien at all. It's a different universe. It's a different time. Each of the monsters just has their own charm and I like AvP.
It doesn't deal with where the Alien species originated, it doesn't make nonsensical connections between events. The director showed a sense of fun when he combined the two monsters, created a reality of sorts, and it worked. Unfortunately, AvP2 is a tragedy for me. But if I have to choose a movie from the Alien universe that didn't ruin my mood and instead entertained me, it's AvP.

If I had to compare it to something AvP, it's Godzilla vs Kong. Unfortunately, that movie failed, I mean, just in principle.
Godzilla has an origin. It's a serious movie about a monster that could destroy humanity. The director made it for a reason. King Kong is also about a monster. It was made for a completely different reason. Again, the director has a message here. Both films are excellent.

Godzilla vs Kong is made for one reason. To have fun. To fight monsters. A spectacular show. If the director had given it an idea it would have been a fine film, but it doesn't interfere with or borrow anything from the original films - except the monsters.

AvP also doesn't borrow anything from Alien or Predator other than the monsters. And on top of that, there's a fun story where I'm having fun and not looking forward to it ending. On the contrary. That's why I like AvP. It doesn't play at anything. Action, fun, suspense. It's not gonna beat the original Alien or Predator. Aliens, A3 or Alien Covenant does.

I can't take anyone serious if they praise AVP 04 as a good or fun movie

 Agreed that Aliens is vastly inferior to Alien and made the resulting franchise much less interesting than it could have been and reduces the Xenomorphs to mere, if marvelous, animals.

One major problem with the movie is that it involves a Sulaco that's nuclear-armed and doesn't even have a captain and a crew.

I'm not the biggest ALIENS fan...But it's a AWESOME movie.rnI'd reboot it in a second and change much of it....BUT It's my go to action / popcorn flick by a country mile!rnWish I could watch it on the big screen again ( and in 70mm FILM not digital! )

Aliens was my favorite movie. Loved the marines and their affection for each other, the developing love story between Ripley and Hicks, how Ripley showed a maternal side, and Apone was a great drill sergeant. I watch it over and over.

Aliens is an excellent film, and not just for the action sequences. You’re knee-deep in memorable characters, for one thing. To see Burke’s eyes darting about while he schemes is nothing to do with popcorn. You’re not going to spot that on the first viewing. I have watched Aliens numerous times. The dialogue is generally outstanding and - for its time - the special effects are pretty good.rnThe only things I really don’t like arern- rear screen projection, which is all too obvious at timesrn- the mushy conversation between Ripley and Newt when she’s tucked up in bedrn- timing error when Burke gets surprised ahead of the vocal he reacts torn- the Queen peering around a corner at Ripley - not convincingrn- Newt calling Ripley “mommy” near the endrnSmall niggles for a great movie. There are just too many good things to mention to make Aliens a bad movie.

I almost forgot Hudson. He made me laugh, especially when he was addressing his commanding officers. Wish he survived the movie and he was still around. R.I.P. Bill Paxton.

When I saw Alien, I was 15 years old and it was 1982. That's when I wanted an explanation above all else. And when I saw Aliens, I was excited at first. Hooray for action, combat, explanation. That's what the success of Aliens is based on. JC knew exactly what he was doing.rnBut as the years went by, I, who loved Alien despite my initial enthusiasm, suddenly understood the tragedy that Aliens caused for the original Alien.rnRS quite deliberately left out the explanation. Alien is a de facto gothic horror film. Humans have no chance of survival, although they don't know it at first. The audience doesn't know why or what it's all about. And that's the amazing thing.rnThere's a spaceship. Who built it? When was it built? We'll never know. There's a dead pilot. Something killed him from the inside. No other crew. The next storyline will explain why. If Nostromo hadn't taken off, the situation would have repeated itself. A dead body with bones outside and no one around.rnNow that I think about it in the discussion, it's better that Alien didn't include the scene with Dallas and Brett's cocoons. It left a mystery. By the way, the alien ship wasn't carrying eggs. Kane clearly says "It's a cave, hot as the tropics". So the alien ship landed over the egg cave instead of the pyramid.rnIt's a good thing there were no hints. It remained a mystery. I think Ripley's words "they probably wanted the monster for the armaments factory" is a deliberate hoax. The command in the Mother is not to fly to a specific planet. It's a command to investigate ANY source of intelligent life and import a sample. Unfortunately, Aliens uses this phrase to build a story to confuse the viewer.rnAlien is a polished gem, and anything extra already cancels it out. Even the cocoon scene. The goal is total mystery. No hint of explanation.rnThere's a similar case in the history of literature. E A Poe and his book on A G Pym. The hero reaches the South Seas at a time when the existence or size of Antarctica was unknown. And when the mystical atmosphere is at its peak a giant white glowing figure appears and the book ends. That's all we learn.rnJules Verne did not understand this Poe's idea of deliberately not revealing the point or wanted to capitalize on it and wrote the novel The Ice Sphinx where the expedition to Antarctica explains everything. The death of Pym, making a mystical figure into an ice stump looking like a sphinx, etc. Someone was happy and the explanation.rnBack to RS. The creation of Prometheus and Covenant were his biggest failures. He decided to suppress the other movies of the original Alien and shattered the mythology with more nonsense than one would expect. He got tangled up in his own thoughts and got stuck in them.rnYes, Aliens was the gateway to the creation of the Alien universe. Hence the many video games, comics and various sequels, etc. For me, Alien will always remain as a one-off. Untouchable. Mount Everest. And everything around it whether Aliens , , Alien 3, AvP or Covenant are just avalanches that have fallen from its slopes. The mountain would remain a mountain even if a thousand avalanches fell from it.rnAll the attempts to figure out "how it was" are the acts of children who want to know more and so they make stuff up. Fabulating. Usually to their own detriment  rn1) Where did the eggs come from in the cave? We don't know.2) why and where did the alien ship come from? We don't know. 3) Was the Alien intelligent or was it driven by perfect instincts? We don't know.rnThe sad thing is, after Scott built such a perfect structure, he joined the others who tried to destroy it for money. To no avail. In this, Alien is truly indestructible and has infected countless writers and audiences even without eggs. And it remains what it was meant to be. A mystery.

I'm still completely baffled by the movies and really wish they would rnfind a way to connect them all with some clear explanations. It would bern great to finally make sense of everything.

Well this is the OP own Opinion.rnI think ALIENS is FAR from the Worst Movie in the Franchise, it is POPCORN but it shows you have to do Popcorn Action Well....  I had a Good Amount of Good Characters, Story, Execution, Pacing was Good the Effects were Good.  Its Hard to Fault about from it is merely Popcorn Action and maybe JC had Evolved the Xenomorph to what RS would NOT have.rn"The end was supposed to be clear, Ripley was killed by Alien"rnThis was NOT Part of the Drafts, the Drafts from 1st we had a Single Survivor a Male called ROBY..... this was Changed to Female called RIPLEY for the other Drafts and the ENDING has always been they Survive and the ALIEN gets Blown out of the Shuttle/Airlock.rnRidley Scott had Proposed that the ALIEN should KILL the Survivor Ripley and then Imitate her Voice.... but to be Fair that would have been a Bit Silly and MOST Movies have Survivors.  And so this Idea was thrown out.rn"But the worst of all is Cameron's Ripley-Rambo"rnRipley seemed a Tough Character a Female who takes NO BS! Her Experiences/Trauma  did make her into that Rambo Ripley, but the Story Arc seemed OK... i think YEAH was a BIT of a Rambo in HOW she Managed to get to Newt and See Off the Xenomorphs on her OWN that the Marines had Struggled and Most Died trying to do (Face the Xenomorph Threat).  So yeah i think that Scene was a bit OT.rn"An indestructible monster has changed into a weird beetle, which can be shot with a shotgun"rnIts Hard to say, as the Xenomorph has Acid Blood and this is WHY the Nostromo Crew would DARE NOT to Wound it.... and some Shotguns can PUT A BIG HOLE in any kind of Organism at Close Range!   The Xenomorph did seem more Fodder in ALIENS but we are Dealing with more Open Field of Battle than the Confines of the Nostromo, and the Marines are WELL TRAINED and Armed with Weapons with Explosive Rounds.rnThe Xenomorph in ALIEN was Tough but we NEVER saw it Attacked Really, so its HARD TO SAY.... but i Doubt it was NO TERMINATOR..... it did seem to NOT be Wounded by Fire though... same we saw in Alien Covenant too.rn"a planetoid of 1200 km is a great planet"rnThis came from ALIEN as well as a 2 Hour Rotation, which makes LV-426 Tiny and also with that Rotation to Size Ratio.... well the Gravity would be Immense... maybe they should have said it was 12'000 KM with a 8 Hour Rotation that would make more Sense.  But this Nonsense came from ALIEN inc the Earlier Drafts.rn"That's why no film from this "Alien Universe", either AvP or A: Covenant, is a problem for me. After that awful nonsense, "Aliens" rnI would go and Watch say ALIENS and then AVPR back to back and then see how you Feel ;)

Aliens is my favorite movie. After rewatching Alien again the other night, I find it boring compared to Aliens. Tonight I am going to watch Aliens again to try and see why some of you don't like it. Loved the crew.

I think that while ALIEN was a Masterpiece it maybe could have become one of those CULT Movies...like The Thing and Blade Runner etc....rnAnd so i would AGREE that ALIENS was the Movie that made the Franchise more Familiar, by that if you Showed EVERYONE on the Planet and Asked or Talked about the Franchise....rnI think MORE would be Familiar with ALIENS over ALIEN. To the General Population then YES that does Stand Out more.  The Alien Franchise which Includes the Video Games. Comics, Novels and Cross-Overs (AVP) do seem to be more Synonymous and Connected to Camerons Aliens... rather than Ridley Scotts Original.rnFor me and maybe for Many i was Younger when i saw ALIENS... and the Action and Bravado was more my Cuppa Tea but i also LOVED the First Movie and was Disapointed with the 3rd.....  But as i Grew Older then Alien 3 had Grown on me, and Aliens started to NOT be as Great... but still Good.....rnOverall then ALIEN was my Favorite and i think as RS had said for me i became Unsensitised to the Franchise as FAR as the Xenomorph because i had seen it OVER and OVER in Various Mediums.... what KEPT the First ALIEN Movie as Enigmatic for me was the MYSTERY....rnThat First Time we see the Derelict, the Pilot Chamber and Pilot, the Egg Cargo Hold.... this to me is ONE of the GREATEST Set of Scenes in Sci-Fi History.rnThe Xenomorph was something we had NEVER really seen it was Unique, it was Iconic...it was a ENIGMA.... but then when you have something that is SHOWN in Mass and Too Many Times then it LOOSES that Sparkle/Enigma it once had.rnThis is NOT to say that Aliens had Killed it Off.....  i think the Downfall Started with Alien Resurrection and then AVPR basically made a Mockery of Sorts of it.rnI cant Blame JC for the Queen.... he had Free Reign to Explore the Idea as the Egg Morph Scene was NOT a Part of the Original (DC Cut aside).  But when you look at Eggs.... then you think well they have to be LAID by something.rnAnd if that Something can LAY MANY EGGS... then your Conclusion would be that maybe they have to be like a Ant, Bee or Termite and so you can Understand as to HOW the Hive/Queen came to be.rnThe Existence of the Queen did OPEN the Debate about the Origins of the Xenomorph as FAR as to give some Credit to the Idea that the Xenomorph was NOT a Creation but a Ancient Organism.....rnIt seems that THIS would have been something that JC would have Touched On had he MADE the Sequel to ALIENS... This would make the Xenomorph become more Closer to the Original Starbeast.rnRidley Scott had however thought the Xenomorph as a Engineered Killing Machine that the Space Jockey had Created....But this does-not make the Queen as something that does-not FIT with a Engineered Weapon... the Queen actually Offers some Benefit as a Weapon.... but also Offers some Flaws.rnBut even if ALIENS had Never Existed and the Egg Morph was shown in ALIEN then IF the Notion was the Xenomorph was a Creation by the Space Jockey then it would STILL have Flaws as well as Pros to being a Bio-Weapon.rnI think EVERYONE has a Different Take well can have a Varied Take on the Franchise and likes and Dislikes and Everyone is Entitled to that.  There may even be some who like AVRP ;)  (I actually think the Pred-Alien and Procreation was Interesting but a BIT RAPID).

That's why I wish they would connect the movie and answer the questions everyone has.

I just watched Aliens again and when Bishop was in the lab with the marines, he mentioned an embryo. So, if it's an embryo, shouldn't the xenomorph be completely alien? I always thought that the face hugger impregnated whatever it came in contact with. That's why I don't understand why the brother in the show Alien Earth wasn't attacked and killed. The xenomorph killed the pilot and co pilot. Also, the eggs were smaller than David's eggs.

For what it's worth this is a seven year old topic. Many of the members in the thread are no longer active. I believe for the most part your replies are going unnoticed 

For what it's worth this is a seven year old topic. Many of the members in the thread are no longer active. I believe for the most part your replies are going unnoticed

Would you bring it back? I thought this was a new website.