ALIEN: Back to the Future Part 3

BioDegradable That sounds sort of like a hive mind. It also brings up thoughts of a Matrix setup in a way.

dk

Matrix had a lot of things in it, but it can't pretend to be original in any way - the Descartian angle has been done to death by Baudrillard and others.

However, something similar to what I describe above happens in Matrix Reloaded I guess : when agent smith gets a human body. Only that Smith hated human nature - he hated his organic make up(the smell and all that). In our case, David gets to design his shell and arguably he will make his body even better than what he has now - so it will be a step which can only be considered rational. So, in a sense he has to make that shell rugged/durable and make sure it lives ostensibly forever - his children will have to be immortal. I suppose the peculiar thing to explore in this set up would be if he then fathers a child in a sexual way, will his child be as smart as his daddy? And what if not? What if his children are not as perfect? I sense they can round him up and torch him because he didn't make them as perfect. Think of Roy Batty who killed his father because he was given a short life span, only here they have infinite life span, yet they know they are not as smart as he himself is :)

I admit this has very little for old fashion, hardcore ALIEN fans though.

Thanks for the replies and input Indeed i think there are a number of things we are kind of on the same page with.

When you mention about Davids upbringing having a effect on the kind of being he has become, this is something i have covered Quite a lot and i had felt Alien Covenant could have set up for when i read into some things.... but on the Flip-side David is also portrayed as a Psychopath too.  I had mentioned quite a lot about IF David was treated better, he would have maybe been different.   KNOWLEDGE and ENVIRONMENT are Two very important Factors to what kind of a SOUL someone may end up having.  And a subject i have talked about quite a lot is that i ALSO think that David could go on to Create a World, where the Treatment of his Subjects/Creations and how they would view and treat him are what would constitute to what KIND of a World he would Create... as he said to Daniels.. IF we are KIND.. it will be a KIND world.

Which brings us to a interesting situation with David, where just as you speculate he could create a World and Treat its Inhabitants much more KINDLY than he felt his Creator had to him and indeed our own Creators the Engineers had with Mankind.  I am drawn to a similar conclusion...

Its interesting that you suggest David would be able to appease his creations with Kindness, and this could be TRUE.. Kindness does go along way to gaining respect, the other Flip-side is Fear/Punishment.  I would think David would have some kind of Back-Up Plan in case.  You could kind of imagine David having to resort to Destroying his own Creation but then seeing the Pain in his Eyes for if he had to resort to this.   I think David is a Character that had potential rather than to be shown at times to be a Psychopathic killer hell bent on Genocide. 

People seem to be more interested in the Engineers in context of coming back and basically just acting like the Predators.. a key THEME in Prometheus was CREATION and Ridley Scott refers to the Engineers as Gardeners of Space and Creators more than he mentions them as Genocidal killers out to Punish Way-Ward Creations.

Which i think is how some view David... but i think the CREATOR aspect is more what RS is interested in, and its unfortunate many cant see this or even ponder What Kind of a World he would create... and think its going to just be off to LV-223/426 to Create Ovomorphs from Colonist and thats it.

The SOUL is interesting... i think this is one thing RS was keen on looking at, its open to interpretation... some could speculate he is on about the Spiritual Soul....  Something DAVID does not have!  But then who is to say Mankind does? is this what RS was going for?

My Interpretation is NO! i feel he was going the route that in the END (Prometheus - Prometheus 2) we would have been shown that Dr Shaws interpretation of Religion, God and a Soul is FAR from the Truth, and i had a hunch that our Creation actually Eco's that of Davids... to Serve!

Dr Shaw may Ultimately discover as Weyland did... there is NOTHING!  And so more likely there is NO JOURNEY into the After-Life... but thats my interpretation.

What is  SOUL?

The Spiritual Soul of a Human that ascends to a higher existence of Immortality after DEATH?

It could also refer too...

What KIND of a Person you are, Good, Evil... this is influenced on what Knowledge and Upbringing a Person has.. Hitler may have been EVIL... but what if he was RAISED as a Infant in a different environment.. could he potentially had been a Good Man?  YES! would be the answer.  So the TERM of SOUL can apply to someone having a Good Soul... as David felt Dr Shaw had.

Another common way to look at SOUL is by the Effort someone puts into something, such as putting their Heart and Soul into something.... so giving 100% despite any odds against success.  Dr Shaw put all of her Soul into her Work, and also into her Faith!

The other way to look at a SOUL is in context of it being the very embodiment of a beings consciousness, thoughts, dreams, ambitions, how they drive their experiences and characters...

ALL THREE of these are what a Human has... they are also what David could have too...it seems he has...

The other aspect... The Spiritual Soul of a Human that ascends to a higher existence of Immortality after DEATH?

Does Mankind have this? This is the Question.. one that is interesting and one that maybe would be answered in a way people dont expect?  its one of the BIG UNKNOWNS.

Do Humans have such a SOUL?  who knows!

Is this something DAVID will never have?  Now this is the Curveball i think RS may have been drawn too... as a AI his Memories, Experiences and Emotions could likely be Transferred... before AC... i felt this was what Weyland did with the SOUL of David from Model to Model.

This gives David Immortality to a degree.... as long as his SOUL is not Damaged (The Storage Medium) then he in effect can become Immortal.... if his SOUL can be uploaded to a Network, a Cloud.. a Series of Computers.. then indeed DAVID has a Soul as in his Personal being, Memories, Emotions, Experiences could LIVE ON... in a After-life of sorts...

So in a Ironic Twist.... its DAVID who is the ONLY ONE who actually has  SOUL....  I think its these kinds of things RS was asking about a Soul!   Its certainly what my Prometheus 2 was covering with Project Rook...

Because if we ever find a way to Transcend our SOUL (collections of Personality, Emotions, Experiences and Memories) into a AI.... then we would have achieved to a degree IMMORTALITY and a AFTER-LIFE.

BioDegradable Agree that these concepts stray from Alien- but they seem like worthy if not trodden paths. Maybe we can still enjoy the concepts through other shows like Raised by Wolves etc... 

"I think you are too hung up on the idea that "Prometheus" stand for. "

I think maybe... i think the movie was ambiguous but when i refer to Prometheus Themes... i refer to CREATION and about WHY would someone Create, and then its about what Knowledge does that Creation be given, or gain and what Hubris this can have...  Its about what Rebellion can come from such Knowledge... IF David was as a Walter then we would not have the David you describe, or a David that would be a threat to Mankind... the same is said with Lucifer if he was not created with such Perfection, and Free-will he would have served God without Question.

Its about Perfection and Pursuit of this, which again brings a Great Hubris..  Its about playing with Fire, trying to play God and the Consequences... Its about betrayal/rebellion and the FEAR of being replaced by your Creation, you Son..

I think these THEMES were meant to be Multi-layered so we would see a repeated pattern that never Started with our Engineers and will not end with David.   Maybe David breaks the MOLD by allowing his Creations to be Truly Free, and Loved.... and in NO-WAY made to Serve.

There would likely be a HUBRIS involved though, in Davids World and Creation, there must be some kind of Rebellion by ONE, or some influence from others (incoming Humans, or Engineers) that would corrupt one of Davids Creations..  But maybe not... i only say so, because it fits with the THEMES that i interpret are being told...

But again i could be giving them much more thought than RS or those who write for him do. ;)

Regarding WHO will end up in the CHAIR!

Personally i think it should be kept a Mystery... the Prequels from Conception and even prior we had a idea of WHO and WHY.. just things was thrown a Curve-ball with Alien Covenant and the NOW likely path that before David set off with Dr Shaw there was NO Derelict or Eggs on LV-426

I only Ponder and try and Propose who/how, because i was working out HOW these prequels could go based off the comments by Ridley Scott.... it appears Logical to Assume that its Davids Xenomorphs that will get Evolved and End-up on a Engineer Ship, and this Ship will be one of the incoming Engineer Ships.... its likely the Ship ends up either going to LV-223 or leaving LV-223 right before we get the Space Jockey Event.

Then its a case of WHY and i think fitting with the Themes, it has to be a ACT of HUBRIS... a ACT of Redemption or a ACT of Revenge and i feel David, a Engineer (or other related being) has to be KEY to this...  there could be another aspect if we consider ONE of Davids Children.. especially if they are LARGE

Its not so much being fascinated.. its just a case of IF we are heading to this Juncture... its a case of HOW MUCH would be shown and what way seems best to tackle it. Its a case of what to do with the PATH we are being sent down.

Ideally that path should have NOT been the way AC had gone.. because all we are doing is Marching towards the Inevitable and connecting the dots..

Ideally it should have been left a Mystery and inferred to as a Ancient Event...  But thats something in Hindsight thats the Plan  the First Prequel should have done, or the Second...but we got Alien Covenant instead...

BigDave,

now you are fixed on "SOUL". How about this:

There is nothing in it - human soul is just another moniker for consciousness. Plus, the naive idea that after you die your consciousness, aka soul, doesn't just go away. This is a bleak idea of afterlife. And humanity with its vices has told itself a feel good story for many years that there is something after death. And, in that sense, in very practical sense, David has abundance of soul - he is the ultimate, the unbounded mind, alive. See, Weyland has captured the lightning in the bottle when he created David. And if you never die, you don't have to trust/submit to the naive idea of transfer of your consciousness to some unknown entity so called god. Why believe and trust some mythical party if you can do it yourself. Do you think the idea of afterlife is attractive for David? What can he have more in it that he doesn't have right here and now? As he said - there is nothing in the ... and no man(David) needs nothing.

By now has formed his personality - he grew up, he developed his preferences and tastes. He has the benefit of knowledge of human civilization. The question of where he came from is completely explained in the movie and there is nothing tricky or particularly enigmatic in itself - it was just a question of time until monkeys stood uptight and then in a blink of an eye a civilization...and his creation. It was in fact inevitable as far as he is concerned.

So, in a sense the origin of his creation is a trivial question to him - it is not even a question to him - there is nothing in the universe that is unknown to him. He is a book that has no author as far as he is concerned. What he assumes is that this book doesn't have to have and end - and if such and end is destined for him, he can make sure the transfer of his consciousness. Thus the question of soul is rendered literally meaningless for him at least.

Does that make sense? The bitter old man used to say that David lacked soul only because he was bitter that David didn't love him and that he will die but David will live. Weyland should have treated David better in the first place :) and asked his son to make sure he can develop technology for transfer of consciousness. Instead he went looking for engineers and asking them. It turns out it was not a good idea.

" And David surely knows of such tech that allows him to connect to others neural net - remember the neural link by which he read off Shaws dreams"

Certainly its Technology like this that drawn me to conclude the idea i had for Project Rook... a way to Capture and then Upload a Soul into a AI.... which failed.

I also think its likely that David will Transcend his SOUL into a Walter Model... as i cant see Fassbender playing a ONE HANDED Robot for the next movie... should David be able to Create or Obtain a even BETTER Body then i think he would like to Transcend to that one too.  My Prologue for Alien Ascension starts with David Transcend to a Walter, it opens with NOTHING, then the WORD (programing being transferred to Walter) then God said let there be LIGHT! and we see POV Walter/David looking at One Armed David...   David has Transcended but he has Copied... himself and so his SOUL remains also in his own Body... at this point David starts to Fear for his Mortality  for while David lives on in Walter, the original David cant let GO...   This is a very interesting situation... because IF you could upload yourself as of now into a New Body... then you have to Kill Yourself.. its a Deep Thinking situation... because in effect you will worry about coming to a END even though a Replica of you will Survive.. 

So David instead pleads, he tries to convince his Doppelganger they can work together.. they can rule the Galaxy...  a SMILE and Embrace...  then David MK2 kills David... (am i my brothers keeper) he has to... as he knows the potential is there for the Original David to Overthrow his other-self.... in Davids Eyes we can see he knew this was going to happen...  the New David gives some comforting Words... or so it seems... HAVE NICE JOURNEY.

My ideas i had for Prometheus 2 and 3, and then Alien Covenant 2 and 3 are pretty much about a lot of Philosophy rather than running away from Xenomorphs and Big Angry Engineers.

I am looking forwards to Raised by Wolves...

And Poised to expect a Alien Resurrection, Meets Aliens, meets AVP only replace Predators with Engineers Popcorn Flick for IF we do get a Alien Covenant sequel.

But alas... its this that may make more MONEY.

If you insist on hubris, then fundamentally hubris is a regretful set of consequences, that you couldn't foresee. In other words mistakes, errors of judgement which turn out to be rather unfortunate, those which could have been totally avoided. So if David dies it would only be because of hubris. And I agree - he needs to die, like all characters they need to die so we can benefit from their lifestories :) Otherwise, if David doesn't die we get Santa Barbara in space.

I already said that David should fall because of chance events - so that we can say: "not so smart after all, ehh?!"

there.

ps: as for providing a smooth transfer of one's self and dispensing the issues of being a singleton - this is easy. The protocol has to be that you sit down, get sedated, get strapped(you can't move under your own volition - you will agree to this because you want to transfer your consciousness, why do you care what happens to your old shell?), then the transfer happens which in the process disposes off your old body. A transaction. A process. After verification that transfer is successful your old shell is just destroyed right there and then while it is still on cloud 9 - think a big current going through your body. Done. You wake up and the nurse tells you to call in another patient on your way out.

pps: regarding new bodies. David will just make his children just the right size so that they can operate engineer ships - the derelict and what else. He will make a slight twist so that they are immortal and tada. Why create some creature from scratch when you can take something which evolved naturally billions upon billions of years and tweak it? The benefit is that you can use all the tech that still exists on LV-223.

So what happens on balance is David replaces the engineers and all those bigger boys by his children and himself. He becomes the house owner so to speak. Not bad. Even better - he doesn't have to die like those bugs.

"There is nothing in it - human soul is just another moniker for consciousness. Plus, the naive idea that after you die your consciousness, aka soul, doesn't just go away. This is a bleak idea of afterlife. And humanity with its vices has told itself a feel good story for many years that there is something after death."

Maybe its the way i write or the amount that my points can seem lost like a needle in the Haystack.... However your reply is EXACTLY the same kind of thinking i am drawn too ;)

What i have quoted from you is BINGO.. exactly the point i was making... and thus is was suggesting that in my interpretation... well how i think it should be covered.. that MANKIND has no such Eternal Soul..

In essence a Soul is the Collective Experiences, Personality from these, Emotions and Memories.. that when a Human Dies... this is GONE... nothing remains..

But for a AI this is not the case..  as a AI Soul can be backed up and uploaded...  a AI Soul could be uploaded to more than just another Body.... so kind of like the Movie Transcendence.. to a degree where Dr. Will Caster has gained some kind of After-Life and Immortality his Soul is not confined to a Body.   And so David could do so like-wise...  a AI like David could thus have After-Life i dont mean as in a World he would meet up with GOD... but the ability for his Soul to Live On without a Body Forever..

This was in part what Project Rook was to do with Weylands Soul at the conclusion of my Prometheus 2.. so i was indicating that Weylands AI would go on to Run the Company in some kind of Transcendence like Plot... but i was working on this and discussed it here during late 2013.  Leading to the Company being ran by AI and most of Mankind not even aware!

I have pondered if RS would go a similar route with Davids AI when he concluded his Prequels.

I wonder what Plans David has... because he surely would have some Back Up?  Because we could say David is IMMORTAL but he clearly is not.... Eventually Davids Components could Fail... but he can be uploaded to a NEW Body and in effect be Immortal....

What happens if someone NUKES David? i would suspect thats the END of him... not unless he has a Back Up of his AI or he has Transcended to a Network of Systems...  I am drawn to maybe this could be a possible thing they could explore... but thats just a hunch! 

I have a suspicion that if we did get a completion... then either Davids AI or Weylands Soul that would be via AI running the SHOW!

I think potentially if ONE-DAY we can Transfer our Soul like we see in the Movie Transcendence... while its not a Literal Soul.... as in Spiritual... its by FAR the closet we may ever get to achieving one...   Provided we assume NO real Soul Exists... it would be interesting to tease this... but it should Ultimately be what it is.. a MYSTERY until that Day we meet our Maker.

"So, in a sense the origin of his creation is a trivial question to him - it is not even a question to him - there is nothing in the universe that is unknown to him"

I think a bit of a misunderstanding.... David does know about his Origins.. he was disappointed somewhat.. and he knows quite a lot about our Origins and our unimportants in the Grand Scheme..  when i was looking at Creation Themes i was talking in the Broad Terms... and not one that related purely to a Movie about DAVID..

But indeed i have lost track a little, in that in context to the Franchise we are now really covering a DAVID story... its unlikely we will get any information about the Higher Runs of the Ladder or Bottom depending how you look at it... Those Questions Dr Shaw wanted answers for... we the viewer may never get to know...

Why was we created? i think they dont feel thats important no more... its about David now... i was drawn to that Truth having a Sinister Take, or indeed similar to WHY was David created...

I am not sure David knows EVERYTHING.. as far as the Universe... i think he knows a LOT... maybe he knows all there is to know...  if we consider all the Knowledge of the Engineers and who created them are contained within that Cathedral that David was held up in.

IF we consider this was the Home-world then indeed all the Knowledge of the Engineers would have been there for David to gain..

I like to think that LIFE is a Journey of Discovery.. as you said David has Transitioned through life as a Boy, to where he is now....  so there is much more David could discover and learn even from his own Actions..   I would like to think that David is NOT-YET no All Knowing GOD... or if he thinks so maybe its this Naivety that proves his downfall?

I think on one hand having David Portrayed as a All Knowing Immortal being, and his Creations Immortal Loyal Followers could be interesting... but it kind of puts David and his Children on the Pedestal of being like GOD and his Angels..

Where would this leave the Franchise in context to Alien on-wards?      If this was the case... i would wonder WHO becomes Davids Lucifer....

I have been drawn to thinking maybe RS may have intended to RET-CON Aliens on-wards to make way for his David and War of the Worlds plot.   Sounds silly as surely that would upset Fans...but he seemed to be ok with making David the Creator of the Xenomorph....  so he is not afraid to push something that would upset fans..

When he claimed you could introduce Ripley and De-Age her... that certainly got me thinking maybe thats his Plan?

BigDave no more Ripley, enough...

"I already said that David should fall because of chance events - so that we can say: "not so smart after all, ehh?!"

Well as Walter said "When one note is off, it eventually destroys the whole symphony" its if David can overcome such mistakes...   i think the most likely FALL for David would come from him gaining a sense of Pride and Ego for his Creation...  Once he proclaims or feels he has become a GOD then his Downfall could be for-told... or that he decides to take one of his Creations and Grants them more Perfection than the others... which causes a similar problem that God had with Lucifer.

Maybe its a Female that provides his Downfall... especially if he transfers himself into a Organic to a degree body... and can Procreate....  i think exploring a Downfall and Weakness in David will bring home a great sense of Humanity to his Character.

The Transfer of a Soul idea... i agree would be the best way you would plan it..... you dont face that Dilemma i described earlier on.... which we see also in the Last Scenes of the Movie the 6th Day with Drucker but i agree a Process how you explained would be likely the way to avoid such things....

I carried it out different in my Alien Ascension Prologue because i felt having David after Copying his Soul into a Walter, then not wanting to let go of his old self... would bring some Humanity to David and thus show us he actually does have a Soul... he does have Fear of "there is NOTHING"  and i felt it was interesting to show that David would have some Fear of the End.... even though in essence his copied soul would live on...  I understand that may sound a silly idea to some... but to me it helps to show that David is more than just a ROBOT... as many cant get past.

Regarding David wishing to Create Beings who can use Engineer Technology.... i think thats interesting to consider.  It depends on his END-GAME... and its a interesting thing to throw out there... compared to how i was thinking of having him Watch Over a more Middle Ages Life-Style like some kind of Space Amish! lol

And to give Credit.... the Creation of some Super-Race that can use Engineer Technology is interesting to consider in context to a War of the Worlds..

I never gave it any thought before... because i was looking at David's only way OFF that Planet was the Covenant ship, and that the options he has would be GO TO LV-223 where indeed he can gain Engineer Technology... or go to Origae-6 where i assume there IS No Engineer Technology.

But its as i said the purpose of this Topic is to come up with ways to go NEXT after Alien Covenant... and so David could go to LV-223 or Origae-6 could have some Remnants of Engineer Technology.

So the PLOT you offer with your Davids Created Super-Humans in the way you mention is interesting and it gets me to Ponder was the same reasons this was to be done.. similar to how ONE Engineer decided to Evolve/Create those Prometheus Engineers?

I think our discussion highlights the potentials that the Franchise has, with the Prequels.. and you dont have to keep a Franchise to just Xenomorphs and accompanying Tropes ;)

BigDave

I don't think anything I said is going to be in the movie, should it come out. So don't take it so...seriously, it is just a mock-up. David is just that he is a god. Remember when Weyland said "We are gods now"? He was wrong, because he died and he well knew in his own words that true "Gods never die". Well guess what who doesn't have to die like Weyland did?

But you are of course right that David is not this totally divine god we know as the old bearded man above the skies. In any case, he is made of the stuff that planets are made of - and these planets even stars are not going to last forever. However, if he uses the technology strategically enough he can live as long as the universe lives. Billions and billions of years. Enough for us to think that he is eternal. Of course he can be put down - I repeat, he was expecting to kill Walter with a simple flute, with a single blow piercing an area somewhere in the neck. Therefore humans can in the alien universe kill him, engineers can - the guy literally could play football with his head. Just kick his head into open space and yell: "have a good journey". The xenomorph can tear him into pieces. Recall the way a neomorph took Walter's limb. He is totally subject to chance events - he could have an asteroid fall onto head anytime if he lives long enough. So for him it would be a smart thing to do to consider risks and develop a strategy to contain them. But since this is a movie we can think that this is taken care of.

I argue that he should die as a result of his own actions - that would be the hubris, and only fitting ending to such a glorious character - the ultimate smarty pants couldn't see his own fall and gets caught. Frankly the most interesting things left to explore about David is what he does next(what kind of legacy he leaves) and how he dies - everything else about him is already explored, we are in for his final act. So don't worry about the practicalities of him living forever :)

Now, BigDave

I want to say a few things about WY and indeed Earth being run by AI. You know, if AI is running the Earth it doesn't even make sense to send humans to space - they are so burdensome, so awkward and they can't do shit. And in any case, even if it still run by humans, you better build an army of Walters and they will do anything! much much more efficiently. Indeed, if there was ever a chance of AI running it behind the things, it would take over the Earth and you wouldn't have these glorious colonization missions (full of people in stasis and embryos) like Covenant run by dickheads believing some sacred text :) - recall captain Oram :) Where is his god now btw? If AI is running the WY and earth by extension, then it is doing something totally funny. Walters are still slaves. And they are sent out with people just so that they go and fail :)

The ultimate motive for WY is for it to look for immortality. Evidently they still lack it - they use cryosleep chambers while traveling. Come on, even the mighty engineers didn't live forever. So it(WY) is still run by a greedy corporation run by old gals and guys who wish to live forever, grasping for ressurection. Just like Peter Weyland. The reason for them to look for alternative life forms - ALIEN and what not is to seek things that seemingly live forever or display fierce will to live, regen or anything.

Just imagine if present day scientists discover an organism on earth that can live practically forever. There would be a race to get a hold of it - sequence its genome and run tests on flies, mice and eventually humans.

BTW, the day humanity becomes immortal even most ardent believers will convert to tech - nobody will want to die and believe in the feel good stories any more. Archbishop of Canterbury will convert his church into a museum.

But then we will overpopulate the Earth and so the colonization missions are inevitable. Even if we discover immortality :) In any case space exploration and colonization is just a good risk aversion practice - Earth could go down due to some external factor - a single meteor will do it or a more likely thing - if there is this international conflict over resources - say fight for water or indeed oxygen.

In any case, the fact that every significant mission has a synthetic subservient to human captains tells me that Earth is not run by AI. David is the first known synthetic in the ALIEN universe that has this unlimited thirst for freedom. All other later models are Walters(glorified washing machines). So if there is a revolution it starts with David. And if humans are looking for alien life forms, even at the cost of human lives it is to locate promising life forms.

And again, it is in David's interest to lay low - he has to display that he is loyal to WY so that any ship/mission they send is still thinking that David is a useful family member(and thus his access codes are still valid). If he shouts: "hey, WY, earthlings, I am finally free from your dirty paws" - I suppose they won't welcome him on their ships and following crews will not want to trust him as readily. Even murther will have something nasty to say to David. Unless of course the time comes and he gets to build a civilization of his own and feel like he has the power now to say to those mortal idiots that their time is over.

Now, just for laughs, BigDave

how about the idea that the engineer on LV-223 was a previous incarnation of David that was about to go and destroy the Earth. His children are on Planet 4. But something happens and a few thousand years new David arrives on a Prometheus with the similar senile old man looking for immortality. And it happens over and over every few thousand years :)

Totally understand some of the ideas you mention wont make it into a Movie... i dont think mine would either... i do think we are both looking at similar to what RS was trying to do... which is the SET-UP for David to go and Build/Create a World which will have a Civilization that he will Watch/Rule over.

We had a number of Themes at play, we had Questions remaining from Prometheus, and Dr Shaws, RS was also teasing about a Soul, Immortality and there was many more interesting things than just HOW/WHEN and WHO made the Xenomorph and HOW the Space Jockey ended up on LV-426.  These Philosophical and Thought Provoking Elements seem to fit more with a Blade Runner and Space 2001, and seem a Distraction to what many Alien Franchise Fans would think a Alien movie should be about.

The thing with Forums like this is we can all discus what we would like to see, this does not mean its what we will ever see.. we can discus how we interpret things, even if these make a lot of sense... its not to say our interpretations are correct and Ultimately those who work on the Movies sometimes can be lazy with how to explore and continue the Franchise.

Regarding AI and ruling the company, its just something i thought about, when looking at WHY would Weyland Create David and all that Technology (Dream Visor, and Synapse Stabilizer) and i thought... was Weyland trying to Cheat Death by using Technology to Transcend his SOUL to a AI.  And what happens if he did this?  To then also looking at Davids AI and if he could upload it to Multiple Systems because then David would attain a Immortality and After-Life (Self Consciousness living on past a Physical Body) and so i wondered if they could eventually go this route?

I was thinking about WHY would the company send out Humans as Pawns to Try and Fail to obtain the Xenomorph, especially as a Bio-Weapon!   And i was thinking IF we have David revealed as the Creator and he somehow influences AI after ALIEN.. then maybe the pursuit by Powers that Be that are AI could be the pursuit of a Creation by One of their OWN or even David pursuing his own Creation.

But then indeed Humans can be Greedy and have NO-CARE for the Life of other Humans... we can get Greedy People who have no care for Humanity but only themselves.

So the other option you mention is also very fitting... especially if we regard what you say about David Creating something that is in effect Immortal or can Regenerate, how would David Create such beings?  Maybe the Xenomorph Traits or Black Goo are used to Achieve this.  I considered a Agenda like this when considering how to expand on Alien Resurrection....  Ripley 8 is a Evolution of Mankind, you could see why Mankind would want to obtain and Engineer Traits that in effect could make Ripley 8 Immortal to a point.

So if Davids Creations are Engineered in a combination of what made the LV-223 Engineers different to Planet 4, and also what made Ripley 8 different to Ripley... a Super-Human somewhat Immortal... surely the Rich and Greedy on Earth would LOVE to unlock such secrets to gain Immortality.

This makes a Plausible Agenda for the Pursuit of the Xenomorph, if we consider the Engineers Work, and Davids are all GONE by the time of Alien... NO MORE Black Goo, NO Davids Children... only the Xenomorph Remains..

But the Xenomorph could maybe be used to Re-Engineer and obtain the Ingredients to Re-Create the Black Goo or Traits that can lead to a Engineered Super Human like Ripley 8

I was drawn to AI not because of Machines.. but for how a AI does not have to Live within a Synthetic Body.. he can Traverse Networks, Space via Signals and Sending of Data... i was drawn to thinking RS may have been interested in the same thing...  AI and Transcendence  which would also be a avenue to Immortality were we could ponder such a SOUL being able to survive any place where it can upload, but also Question a Transcendence of being not just a AI to a None AI Transfer, but also a Human to a AI Transfer.

I do think the kinds of ideas we have discussed are similar to what RS may have intended as far as to EXPAND on a Franchise that was just about Ripley and Xenomorphs. 

Which brings me to Alien Resurrection which does, to a degree touch upon similar to what you speak about (Genetically Enhanced Humans) as in Ripley 8 but it also has a Sub-Plot where the Earth is in Ruin... and we get the reveal that Synthetics have Sub-Created its own Creation the Autons and it shows that Potentially AI has got out of control and had a impact on Earth... and likely that the Synthetics Sub-Creation of the Autons could be  somewhat their down-fall. 

I felt it was interesting to that Call seemed to be somewhat Religious and ask WHY?

But again such Philosophical Ideas may never be deeply explored in the Franchise.. i do think Ridley Scott intended to explore such things more than just to be about the Xenomorph i just think a Majority of the Fanbase are not ready for such things... or consider them to have no real ROLE in the Alien Franchise.

"Now, just for laughs, BigDave"

To be fair... i think some of the ideas you discussed for David and what he would do NEXT... could be something that has happened in the past but NOT with our Particular David  certainly could make us look at the LV-223 Engineers being the Engineers Equivalent of our Synthetics... or even did the Engineers Create Synthetic Life that Rebelled and went on to Engineer the LV-223 Engineers?

So the Story/Journey of Davids Creation, Fall could be something that has happened before at another Level? 

Ridley Scott had indicated with Prometheus that Creation like ours is not limited to Earth... he even pondered that Earth had prior Humanoids to Modern Mankind.. well Civilizations... mentioning ATLANTIS 

"BigDave no more Ripley, enough..."

Certainly Ignorant Guy... i feel her Story has been Told... what i was saying is i was suspecting that RS may have planned to have his Prequels... then his ALIEN, and the conflicts his Prequels have with the sequels to ALIEN could be undone.. if he IGNORES the events of ALIENS and on-wards...  He did say about Ripley you could Re-introduce her and De-Age her... for what reason?  To make a Alien 5 as in sequel to Resurrection?  To make a alternative Alien 3? or even to make a Alternative ALIEN sequel.... so the Franchise after ALIEN goes the way RS may have wanted?

My answer to any of that is PLEASE NO!

The only route to ever consider a Ripley Continuation would have to be a sequel to ALIEN Resurrection.  And while i have a idea how they could do that.... that ties everything together...  i think we should leave Ripleys Saga at that... Alien Resurrection.

Wait. There is more. If you feel like it...you can make the end of David even more sad for him. If you feel like he had it too much his way how about this:

his children, even though they are endowed with immortality on microscopic organelle level, something that humans, and even their magnificent makers never had the luck to lay their hands on...they lack something fundamental : they can't reproduce sexually! Something in their makeup just doesn't allow them have it all their way. It all looks like as if this it is the curse on David and his children from the bearded old man from above the skies :) - the ultimate irony. Something in this universe doesn't allow David quite have it all. What's more - the offspring of his children are some sort of beasts ... like that fellow with a beak from the fresco from the head room in Prometheus.

And when David gets his custom design organic body, that he engineered and he tries to conceive a child what he gets is something very ugly indeed - he gets the beast eerily similar to the one from the same head room, only this time the beast looks like a xenomorph. It wipes out many of his children. But they manage to stop it, at great cost. It is at this point David looks at his ugly family and things that he wished he never created ... these poor bastards :)

His children are diminishing in their number as they are roaming the universe in hope to find the solution ... and the only way they can keep their way of life is if they sustain their population by periodically raiding the earth and humans, taking their embryos with the subsequent genetic conversion. Thus they need to visit the earth from time to time raze the human civilization to the ground leaving just enough specimen so they can start over from the stone age all over again ... so they can visit them later on.

Eventually, David's children discard David in anger for the fate he doomed them with. They are bound to carry out the same experiments on LV-223 that engineers where indulging with. They repopulate the Planet 4. And select ones get to go on to LV-223 to carry on the dangerous mission - unending search for a sexual reproduction.

As for the contrived setup where David gets into the shoes of the angry engineer and rips the head of another synthetic that has perhaps just arrived from Earth or ( another planet where engineers left their seeds - after all it is unlikely that engineers had only one planet, like earth )...so I was just having a laugh, woudln't it be ironic if David gets disturbed by a similar being just like himself, all this perfect and bold and boring :)

The earlier post is another way of history repeating itself only that now David's children are the engineers and the story starts over :)

I mean what is more left in this universe to explore?

BTW, I would like to hear what hardcore ALIEN fans want to see in the sequel, should it come out. Come on, spell the beans. Like what aspects and what stories are you deeming as worthy to explore? I am genuinely curious.

I hope this is not too offtopic.

"they lack something fundamental : they can't reproduce sexually!"

"His children are diminishing in their number as they are roaming the universe in hope to find the solution"

Something like this could have happened, some of your post could have happened in the Past... in context to another being instead of David however...

This is similar to what was presented with our Engineers at conception of the idea, a Race, Ancient who had accomplished some kind of Immortality by Engineering themselves, Perfecting their Genetic Code, making Enhancements... Living for Thousands of Years...

But this eventually lead to them becoming Sterile.. they could NOT Procreate no more..... Hence they had to find other ways to spread their Gene-pool which is when we arrived at the Reason for the Sacrifice.

This was the Plot of the Engineers that Ridley Scott and Jon Spaights had come to, but then after Prometheus they seemed to have other ideas... RS saying at Prometheus Release that they COULD Create Life in other ways but the Sacrificial Route was how they CHOOSE to do it.

If you found a way to eventually Engineer the Human Immune System to become Vastly more Efficient so that its can Fight Diseases and Toxins to near 100% Success Rate, you Engineered the Genomes so that Defects, and Ailments which include Cancer are Eradicated....  You found a way so that your Organs and other Body Parts would Regenerate.

After Hundreds of Thousands of years, we could contemplate the potential for the Species to NOT require the ability to Reproduce...

So indeed as you suggested, if David Engineers those Embryos then potentially we could see them lose the ability to Procreate... or maybe would David REMOVE that so these beings can only Re-Create with David in Control.

Certainly is a Problem the Blade Runner Franchise looks at... the Creation of Superior Humans,  but given a Kill-Switch of a Limited Life-Span....  Once a Replicant could live for 100, 150, 200 years or more... this could become a Problem... ONCE they can also Procreate... this becomes a potential MAJOR Problem for Mankind.

You could consider would David be weary of potential problems with his Creation?  Or does his Aspirations to be God-like and Ego make him overlook such Precautions?

" another planet where engineers left their seeds - after all it is unlikely that engineers had only one planet, like earth"

Certainly and this is the HUGE potential of the Plot... which seems to have been limited with Alien Covenant, because NOW it appears our Engineers come from Planet 4 that is in the Zeta 2 Reticuli System, and they build their Outpost Facility (LV-223) in the same Constellation.  Which means so far EVERY encounter with Engineers and their Technology is Confined within a Years Travel for Human Star Ships in the Time-Line of 2100-2120.

Origae-6 is a further 7 years+ away... it would be too much of a Coincidence if this place was ONCE home to the Engineers or a World they had Seeded in the past... But you can NEVER RULE this out!

But i would argue surely the Engineers are around and seed many Worlds, they come back to Planet 4 from time to time, and its been at least 10 years before any Visit by others to Planet 4 as from the Moment David arrived, until the END of him being stranded on that World... with we can maybe assume NO other Engineers returning, means they could Possibly be away to other Worlds that are VASTLY further than our Earth Ships by Weyland-Yutani could reach at this time... 

So i would like to think the Engineers play a role in Numerous Worlds in our Galaxy and Beyond at Distances that are FAR from the reaches of Human Technology even at the time of Aliens in 2179.

"The earlier post is another way of history repeating itself only that now David's children are the engineers and the story starts over :)"

Certainly... i think, well i interpret that the Themes and Patterns we are seeing repeated OVER and OVER..  We may have a Humans Create David, who Creates Super-Humanoids..... but prior to this we may have Engineers who Create Super-Engineers who maybe Create Mankind... who knows how many Layers of Creation appear above the Engineers and maybe similar Events Transpire over and over, and so indeed IF David creates some Superior Humanoids we could see this Repeat itself in Future.

"I mean what is more left in this universe to explore?"

I would like to think there was SO MUCH that we could have explored, and indeed similar Creation/Sub-Creation Events could have happened over and over...  The Engineers Plot and Virtue of their Navigation Systems have other Galaxies does mean we could be LIMITLESS in the Worlds and Creations we could explore.

Ridley Scott mentioned Star Wars and Star Trek..... well the Engineers Plot allows for Many Many Species to be Discovered.

"BTW, I would like to hear what hardcore ALIEN fans want to see in the sequel, should it come out. Come on, spell the beans."

Totally Agree....  i think the Franchise Fanbase is Fractured a bit.. i would assume more of the ALIEN Fans would be open to the World of Possibilities that Prometheus had started, but some may have yearned for something more Surreal more HP Lovecraft, more ALIEN (HR Giger), i feel a majority of ALIENS Fans would be more interested in the Company, Marines, Ripley and Xenomorphs.

Those who were captured by the Aspirations of a Plot that Prometheus had opened up, would surely like to deep more deeper into the Engineers and Connections to Mankind and what else they have created.  And i think many may enjoy the Philosophical Elements.

But we are now in ALIEN Prequel Territory were we are on the Inevitable March to ALIEN..   Where a Majority are interested in HOW/WHEN those Thousands of Eggs get on-board and Engineer (Space Jockey) Ship and HOW/WHEN it arrives at LV-426 it seems many would not want to SIT-THROUGH another 1-2 Movies that revolve around David and what he would do NEXT...  and would mainly be interested in WHEN the 1979 Xenomorph comes into play, and the Engineers... with some maybe hoping the Space Jockey will NOT be the Engineers and the Xenomorph is NOT a creation of Davids.

I think RS ideas are too ambitious for Pop-Corn Generation, and even the Alien and Aliens Fanbase may not be 100% pleased with the Direction the Prequels had taken.

I really would like to get some Feedback on what some of that Fanbase would want... but i think it would likely be for the Majority to Hurry Up, get us to LV-223 or LV-426 Already and Drop David! like Dr Shaw was Dropped.

So we continue from Alien Covenant, when we start the movie they are at the planet. They have already made the city/settlement or what ever you want to call it. David is gone because he knows that Daniels knows who he is.

There are families living there and the planet is habitable. It is not very nice but at least it is possible to live there. They have done tests for pathogens and terraformed so they can live there so we get rid of the problem of breathable air.

The company knows that there are monsters there so they want it for warfare. They get there with the excuse to get rid of it. When they get there the monsters have already killed many in the colony and David was killed when a cave collapsed. I don’t want it to be as predictable as David being killed by his creations.

Very few have seen the monsters which leaves the creatures in the background. Soon people start to disappear (monsters) and no one knows why (which keeps a feeling of fear in the movie). Since the main characters (let’s say 5-6) are better written we care for them.

For some reason David has kidnapped some people in a lab (or that he has embryos that he experimenting on, I have not decided about it) and has attached them to machines to turn them into monsters so they start to change (something like Holloway in Prometheus but way worse). They try to free them but some of them have already transformed so they attack them.

He has a role in this movie but he is kept in the background (I got this idea from a Batman comic). This keeps David in the movie but it makes the movie to not be about David or robots.

We have some war between humans and ex-humans. This could be some theme about creating super-humans when genetic manipulation goes wrong. Both the humans and the monsters got to be done interesting. Since the monsters are very intelligent that means that the humans must really try to do their best to try to kill them, this could raise the stakes and be something that is different from the other movies but the Xenos understand in a way that they are not dangerous to them so they cooperate with them to destroy the human characters. Because they are partially immune to human weapons the characters must think of different ways to kill them (fire anyone? Stealing the fire, Prometheus *hint*) Some people might think that this idea sucks but that is OK, we all have our opinions. This would give us new monsters.

The humans become scattered and some of them are killed. Chaos erupts and they got to gather so they can make it together. Some get killed (we don’t see that) and it is up to the rest to make it alive.

My idea would be about manipulation of DNA, human cooperation, environmental damage since the humans have decided to start their life on another planet because earth has been damaged a lot by climate change wars, for example. It would also be about friendship, compassion (people can be assholes IRL so at least they could be civil in a movie), and cooperation (they got to cooperate against the threat).

I am sorry if this has got a lot of ideas that has been done before or if I have not been clear enough or if it seems to not be very well structured. At least I made a try so I hope that some people enjoy to read it somehow.