Traits of the franchise

"Could the androids be from Weyland-Yutani and the children from a lost and forgotten colony?"

I do wonder if Raised by Wolves borrows ideas that RS had intended for Alien Covenants sequel, that he has NOW taken to explore in his TV Series, knowing that his kind of Alien Covenant sequel may NEVER see the light of day, in light of the Backlash to Alien Covenant.

I speculate that the sequel would have been about David creating a Colony that has Engineered Human Embryos... that are likely raised by David and Fed some BS story about Creation and Religion, that when another Human Ship arrives, those Humans Interaction with Davids Engineered Humans, causes things to GO TO POT!

You can bet the Final Act would also see another Human Ship and Engineers come into play, to set up another sequel that would become a War of the Worlds or set up such a Plot.

@LONE

You certainly can see the Xenomorph can take some Punishment,  well apart from the Action Run/Shoot Movies.   I would SAFELY assume the Furnace had Destroyed the Queen in Alien 3 and had the Runner been tossed into the same Furnace it would be Curtains Instantly.

Regenerating Xenomorphs would raise the Question of WHY do they pursue Ripley in Alien 3, and resort to Clone her 100 years after?

But certainly Ridley Scott suggested the Xenomorph would Regenerate... i think YEAH... to a degree that would work..

But i would much prefer the Cabbage Patch Regeneration/Clone route.... when a Xenomorph Dies, from its Dead Body, it Breaks Down and then Eggs Form from the Broken Down Mass of Xenomorph Body Parts.

In effect giving us a bit of a Egg Morph like Twist.

This could kind of Explain the Egg Cargo if we assume the Space Jockey Chest Buster, died... it then Broke Down, Dissolved through to the Cargo Hold, it then somehow infected the Urns, to then end up producing Eggs.

Lol, I know Dave, I was just trying to have the baby Queen fit into the survival scenario.

Yeah, I wonder where Ridley would have gone with the regeneration idea or was he going to simply avoid any explanation?

Regarding why pursue Ripley & clone her as an alternative? Perhaps something happened during the process of evolving the Biological Alien into the Bio-Mechanical version, (how that happened, we have yet to discover) which affected its ability to regenerate? Or even that in evolving it was so well protected & adaptable that it no longer needed that ability?

I'm just throwing things out there off the top of my head. I'd really have to take some time to think of a suitable reason.

All attempts to harness & breed the Alien have ended in disaster, as even the events of Resurrection have shown. Of course the Ripley-Alien clones became an unexpected by-product of that process. 

God forbid, we might have a future movie with a Ripley clone army! Jim Cameron is waiting in the wings to make his entrance, so who knows. For those of us who complain about resurrecting Ripley yet again, just imagine that! Hahaha

I like your cabbage patch regeneration-clone scenario too. I think we discussed that a while back? It does sit nicely with the human Egg Morph, which we are both supporters of. It provides a satisfactory explanation for the derelicts cargo being eggs rather than urns.

"Lol, I know Dave, I was just trying to have the baby Queen fit into the survival scenario."

Well the Queen is a Pivotal Part of the Franchise, and the Xenomorph History, where it came down to the Chicken or the Egg.  That was a BIG Question that maybe has No Answer just as the real Chicken or Eggs Question.

The Prequels and Especially Alien Covenant, now seem to steer us in a certain direction, because it indicates there was NO Queen at the time of Davids Current Xenomorph's by the year 2105.

The Pathogen, does look like something that can adapt to different situations, and we saw the Xenomorph appeared to have that Trait in the Franchise.  Many have tried take sides on the Egg Morph or Queen Route since even before the Franchise... i was always lead to the Egg Morph leads to a Queen being the best Explanation.

There are some who still only take the Alien DC version of the Egg Morph and prefer our ALIEN Big Chap compared to Camerons Queen and Semi-Clear Carapace/Dome  missing Bug Xenomorphs.  But when we look at the Alien Engineers Draft, it indicates and RS had confirmed the Derelict had 8 Different Cargo Holds... Each One having a Variant of the Xenomorph.

This opened up the 1979 Style Xenomorph that Egg Morphed as one Variant to Try, and Cameron's Egg Laying Queen and slightly different looking Xenomorphs as another Variant the Engineers could have been Testing.

Quite how much Alien Covenant may have Muddied the Waters to explain either of those, is left for debate and maybe something that would have been answered?

But indeed the Xenomorph Organism is a Survivor, its not hard to imagine it would have a number of ways to adapt and survive.  I think the Cabbage Regeneration Scenario would be VERY fitting, especially as a Purposely Designed Bio-Weapon that can be used to Clean-Up Worlds.

If the Xenomorphs and maybe Black Goo Monsters, have a Limited Life-Span and then when they Die, they Dissolve into a Pile of Matter that then Sprouts Small Eggs/Spores that are left behind, then this is VERY useful as a Bio-Weapon.  Would fit in with RS and the Regeneration Aspect, and maybe used to explain the ACID Hole on the Derelict.

Regarding my Rant on Fanboys and Tropes...

I did not intend it to come over harsh, we are all Fanboys, thats not a Bad Thing... what i was referring to was that their is a selection of Fans who prefer or do-not see the scope of the Franchise beyond the Xenomorph and Queens.  

But when looking back at ALIEN, then the Space Jockey was the Bigger Picture... it was surely NO Coincidence that the Derelict and Xenomorph had a similar Atheistic and so there was a Connection... it was not like the Ship/Space Jockey appeared to be a Unconnected Race that just came across the Xenomorphs and tried to exploit them like the USM company did in Alien Resurrection.

There appeared to be a Connection between the Derelict and Xenomorphs.... Ultimately the Idea was that the Ships Technology and Xenomorph were Designed/Engineered Weapons that were either Created by the Space Jockey Race, or Stolen/Reverse Engineered by them from something else.

Getting to the Bottom of this Connection was something NEW to explore that potentially could EXPAND beyond the Limitations of a Alien Organism that Procreates via a Queen then goes around to Invade/Infect a World to Procreate its own kind.

There is ONLY so much you can do with this Formula (Queen and Eggs), before we explore its Reason/Origin.

Ridley Scott had intended to show the Space Jockey Race had Created these things (Derelict/Xenomorph) to be used as purely a BIO-WEAPON and in effect once you have revealed this Reason, then the Xenomorph is just like GUNPOWDER is to Mankind... you can explore many uses for Gunpowder and Variants but there is something BIGGER about Mankind than we Discovered Gunpowder and then the Game Changer as far as Warfare goes with this...

The History of our species, WHY would we need to USE the Gunpowder and Various Weapons that employ it... so its the WHY that becomes the Bigger Question, for what reason, and what CONFLICTS.

I feel this is something RS was more interested in, the WHY rather than the HOW/WHEN the Engineers as Creators and would be GODS.. Chariots of the Gods Plot also opens up massive Scope, Many Worlds, Races and Conflicts.

Back to the Alien Tropes....

If we ignore the WHY and Origins of the Xenomorph, then what we have is a Organism that Procreates via Eggs (laid by Queens) , that Require a Host, that we see are either came across by Mankind who become in Peril, or these Helpless Victims are Set-Up by the Company Military who wish to Obtain the Xenomorph as a Weapon.

It comes down to Company wants said Organism for Military Division and a Ripley Comes along and Puts a Stop to that!

After Alien 3, Miss Weaver wanted to be KILLED off... when she returned in the Alien Resurrection Plot... we see a Company has Finally Obtained their Xenomorph and then it was a case to WHAT END would they attempt to use it, we also saw there was Hybrids.

But it still came down to a Ripely putting a Stop to THAT!

The same applies with Amanda Ripley... it would likely take a similar route if we had Alien Isolation Sequels and Movies. Company Want Xenomorph, people killed by Xenomorphs while trying to Run/Hide, and a RIPLEY comes along to Put a Stop to the Companies Plans.

The Xenomorph had been done over and over, in Movies, Comics and Games... to the point that apart from ALIEN and ALIEN 3 it was a Organism that could get its ASS handed to it by Ripley, Marines or Mercenaries.

The AVP movies reveal the Predators USE the Xenomorph to give them the Ultimate Prey to HUNT as a Right of Passage.  While it does-not give us the Origins of the Xenomorph....  i feel the Xenomorph was not too Damaged by the Movie... apart from the Queen!

The Sequel However... well enough said about that!

Alien Covenants Xenomorph, was shown to be aggressive but also it was not used well enough and DID NOTHING to regain the Threat it was in ALIEN.... but it was not FAR OFF... the whole David Created it ARC is what Damaged the Xenomorph however.

so my point about the FANBOYS... is they seem to be disappointed in Movies that are not as much Action Based, they want Queens, Eggs, Multiple Xenomorphs and seeing Humans Run, Hide and Shoot... which is all very good.. but these things have been done OVER and OVER in Comics, and Games and the Movies.

The Big Problem with this, is its always usually the same Plot... Company Secretly or not so Secretly want the Xenomorph and a Ripley comes along to Save the Day!

If this Formula is Repeated, its a case of HOW long can we have this GO ON and especially with a Ripley Savior Connection before it gets Repetitive?  Even if we have Amanda Ripley, or other Ripleys or a Newt... if the Female Protagonist is Molded to much in the same Fashion as Ellen Ripley, and especially with a Family Connection.. it would get repetitive and Predictable.

This is what RS was trying to Change!

A Cameron i feel would just bring back those usual Plot and Tropes and Ripley....    Then we start to become just a TERMINATOR wanting to be a Star-Wars like Franchise.

The Terminator Franchise does-not have to be about Sarah/John Connor or Arnold Schwarzenegger but it seems to be STUCK in only having these connections..

There are many other Variants of Terminator and other Threats that a Skynet  and Cyberdyne could introduce,and it does not have to be about Schwarzenegger Doppelgangers or Connor Family.

Likewise the ALIEN Franchise should not be limited to Queens, Eggs that the Company Want and a Ripley Family Member comes and Saves the Day!

I think the Problem comes from what constitutes a ALIEN movie?

I think the KEY themes was about the Xenomorph and the Peril of trying to Obtain and Exploit this Organism, but it does-not always have to stick with this Trope.. it does-not have to always be about some Company/Person wanting to exploit the Xenomorph and they use Humans to be sent into places where these Xenomorphs are found.

The second Trope seems to be around a Female Protagonist, usually a Ripley who battles against the Agenda of Said Company wishing to Obtain the Xenomorph.  I dont think its Necessary that we have to have a Ripley involved or any relation to her, as far as the Main or indeed any Protagonist.  The same reason i feel the Terminator Franchise should not be expected to be about John/Sarah Connor, and Star Wars does-not have to about the Skywalkers... 

You can expand on the Terminator without having to have any of the Connors or our T-800 Arnie!   You can expand on the Star Wars without it having to be about Skywalkers...    But you will get some Fans (i will tr refrain from using Fanboys as that seems Single Out people and can come across bad) but some Fans will still Want/Expect those Franchises to have Connors and Skywalkers, to have Arnie and a Vader etc.

We have the same within the ALIEN Franchise, and i have to say that YES... Ripley and Corrupt Companies are parts of the Franchise and a PART of what made those movies Great, but i feel the more you connect those Characters, it could become a bit repetitive.

The XENOMORPH is a different Kettle of Fish... the ALIEN Franchise was about the Xenomorph and rightfully so, but i think you have to be careful how you execute this and over do it... if its kept to pretty much very similar execution then it can kind of get repetitive, if Executed Well then you can go a FEW rounds before i think you have to come up with something a bit different.   Some Fans would be excited to see the same things repeated over and over.... some fans may want something different...   I think those Fans who would be happy with movies that would be like repeats of Aliens and Alien Resurrection have a right to feel passionate and enjoy the Fun Side of seeing these Beasts Hunting down and Killing Folk....  i just think you have to add another Layer or Icing onto the Cake!

Blomkamps Alien 5 ideas are interesting, they are taking Alien Resurrection ideas and expanding it.. its kind of like what would happen had they KILLED Ripley 8 once they got their Queen. So the Company could then Experiment with those Xenomorphs!

I am just not a Fan of bringing the Band Back together for the sakes of Nostalgia it concerns me when Blomkamp, Cameron and Miss Weaver feel that it was a bit In-just to how Alien 3 ended...  Miss Weaver even thinking they should have all had a Happy Ending (inc Bishop), i just dont think its Necessary...

In Hindsight it may have been interesting to see what would happen IF they had all survived... and certainly it would have allowed for Newt to be the one who has the Torch Passed too... But $£"% happens... and they DIED, like Dr Shaw, and while it may not have been the best way to deal with the Characters, it happened and we have to MOVE-ON

I enjoy the Alien Franchise, i think its been over-saturated with the Games/Comics and AVP movies.. but thats not to say the Xenomorph could not be given a FEW more movies, if they can Evolve/Change them a little... which Blomkamps Alien 5 seemed to do....   we have seen the Xenomorph Chest Bust all over the place, Snarl all over the Place, i think some movies made it less of a threat.. but it can be used again and i feel having the Xenomorph pitted against Humans who are not equipped to deal with it makes the Xenomorph more Scary....  i feel too many Military with Guns running and shooting them can make them look a bit like Fodder.   I think you need a Balance or Introduce/Evolve the Xenomorph to become a Threat..

The Terminator Franchise had other Terminator Models that were more of a Threat and i feel the Xenomorph needs some changes a little too..

I am up for a ALIEN movie... even if we have Ripley back, i feel she could do another 1 movie, maybe two if they make a continuation of ALIEN Resurrection and NOT to Reboot Alien 3

I even have TWO ideas how to do it, and cover the OLD AGE Miss Weaver Problem!

My Problem, well something i maybe are a bit Harsh with, is the Frustration that some Fans Disappointment for Prometheus which to be fair, is FOX fault as the movie should have catered a bit for them...  and Blomkamps Alien 5 information released and Miss Weaver championing the Project.... had caused Prometheus which should have gone on to expand on more than the Xenomorph...  AS the Space Jockey was that ELEMENT that had never been covered before.  The Xenomorph just ONE element of their Story (Space Jockey)  just as the Synthetics were ONE element of the ALIEN Franchise, and the Emphasis was the Xenomorph, followed by the Company Agenda and Ripley..

I feel the Space Jockeys are a WHOLE New World to explore, that the Emphasis has to be on them and LESS the Xenomorph... it was a MISTAKE to tone down the Xenomorph connections in Prometheus too much!

The disappointment by some Fans for NOT having Xenomorph Origins explained, even to some degree and NOT having any Xenomorphs or similar to a Degree... and Blomkamps Alien 5, had Derailed what Prometheus could have expanded upon.

But by Virtue of what has happened... we are now in a ALIEN Franchise Prequel... when the Plan was a Spin-Off Franchise and so i think that the Prequels are  NOW a Distraction from ALIEN unless they NOW cover some of the ALIEN Franchise Traits.

So yes we need Xenomorphs to be at least a 3rd of the Process/Plot to any Future Movies but that does not mean we cant Change them a little.

Excellent examples NTFS. The technology examples are spot on and are the trait that came to mind in regards to the topic.

The Weyland Corp tech has its own industrial look and is somewhat consistent throughout the films. The sail repair in Alien: Covenant was a nice showcase of this tech.

Genetic engineering also seems to be a trait blooming in the films and novels and I welcome the attention to that.

123Engineer:

I do not mind that Prometheus tried something new, the Engineers were interesting. My problem is that mist of the characters were lame (except for Janek, David, and maybe Vickers). I don’t know about Daniels or Tennesee because they had no personality as far as I could see. How were they as characters? What were their personalities? I can not tell

Raised By Wolves, I am not sure if it is a part of the Alien universe but maybe it has some similar things. I am not very interested in the android thing so I do not have any plans to watch it but if people enjoy that then fine for them.

AC had some things that I enjoyed but too much of it was a waste. Yeah, it depends on what you want in a movie for it to work for you. I can not watch a movie where the characters are not well written but some people are maybe in it for the themes or for the environments, and so on.

“I‘m pretty sure that the fans will love the sequel, if it is how Scott described it... War of the worlds-scenario with engineers on a new planet, thousands of colonists and the juggernaut crashing consequentially? Sounds interesting!”

It could work but then the characters got to work but the idea seems interesting. I am afraid that David will have a big part in it so I do not want that. Having it as a survival horror thing seems interesting to me but they got to reduce the role of the androids.

DK:

Thanks, I don’t really hate any movie in the franchise because it is such a strong word so I save it for other things. Alien 3 is my favorite but I bet that there are people that find things in it that annoys them so they do not like it that much but that is alright. We have had releases since 1979 so there are many things in there that people like or not, I am totally fine with it.

I agree that there are different tones in the movies. 1 and 3 were similar, aliens is action, and 4 is a bad comedy. One thing that is interesting is that they are different from each-other despite of things that unify them but then it would be bad if they were all the same. Prometheus for all of its faults tried something new so I got to respect it for that.

Yeah comedy is probably the closest thing that 4 is in terms of genre. If the franchise is a family then AR is the odd-ball of it. Hmm, I am not sure about that because I did not see that much of what their traits as characters were. The wheel-chair guy was in a wheel-chair and that was what he was about.  The rasta guy was what? I don’t know. The female that got the foot-massage was worried and a crier but we learn nothing about her as a character, actually that goes for most of them. Those that get a background is basically Call and Ripley and that’s it (you see that when they are alone talking).

“I loved that dynamic of Ellen and a Xeno occupying the same body and mind.”

The idea is not bad but it feels too much like a comic-book to me. It doesn’t fit in the tone of the franchise, it is just odd but I got to say that I watch Resurrection when I have nothing to do and just pick a movie without too much thinking (lazy crap).

Sure there is different context to every movie, how it was in society when it was made and what ever so that is just something that I accept no matter if I like or dislike of what becomes.

A male lead could be interesting because we haven't had that in the franchise but what is the most important thing is that he or she is well-written. You mention Amanda, I think that it is a little sad that they got to have Ripley-connections in a lot of things. Having a new character that is independent from those that came before should have been better in my opinion. What they went with is too much of a repetition which I am not too excited about but that is just my take on it.

The key traits of the franchise:

1. Exploration (expeditions to remote locations)

2. Colonization (terra-forming of planets, construction of infrastructure in space)

3. Conquest (collision with other life-forms or cultures)

@Thoughts_Dreams

"You mention Amanda, I think that it is a little sad that they got to have Ripley-connections in a lot of things. Having a new character that is independent from those that came before should have been better in my opinion."

I agree with you in this point. I don't know how everyone else thinks about the idea that there should be a familial connection to the prequel series or to a reboot. 

It feels like the destiny of the characters is predestined and nothing unpredictable might happen. The franchise is always somehow unpredictable, but telling the story of the ancestors and the descendants of Ripley makes it a family saga like Star Wars. The Star Wars original films are about the Skywalker family. That makes sense because it has such an impact on the universe. Applying that to the Alien franchise makes it foreseeable and it feels like the center is of it is the Ripley family. But we'll see how things get connected. Maybe the Covenant 2 could handle things so that there is just a slight hint or a minor appearance of a ancestor of Ripley.

1. Space Exploration

2. Colonization and terra-forming

3. Conquest 

Nice Points NTFS

The Weyland Company and its achievements fit those 3 Points...

But ALIEN does seem to indicate fans would expect some ALIEN connection as in something NOT of this world... which was the Xenomorph.  I have said before we could have gone off say after Alien  3 and explored other ALIEN Races that are not CONNECTED to the Xenomorph but some Fans would not see this as a ALIEN movie...  a Visit to see the Arcturian Poontang Planet would have been seeing other Alien Species... which would make the ALIEN Tittle mean Mankind interacting and discovering Alien Life... and so just as the STAR in Star Trek means Searching for New Worlds and Life among the Stars, rather then Earth Treking!

But i think a Majority of Franchise Fans would feel there had to be a connection to the First Movie in context to the Xenomorph.

A Movie about Xenomorphs that follows the same Patterns/Tropes would get Repetitive...  not for some though..

But  this is when you can bring in the Mankind/Company Agenda to Exploit the Xenomorph, and then open up the possibilities of Reverse Engineering them and trying to exploit their Traits for Various Purposes, so it would not even need a Xenomorph...  but the ALIEN would come from Mankinds attempted use of the Xenomorph to create Hybrids/Horrors at a Great Hubris.

You could see such things had been attempted by the Engineers at a great cost to them.

When looking at ALIEN we also have to consider that the ALIEN element was the Derelict/Space Jockey too and WHAT IF those Eggs were just a Bio-Weapon Engineered by them? (as it was implied) then you have another LAYER to that ALIEN Cake and one that opened up a World of New Possibilities.

When we consider the Reveal of the Space Jockey Race and Plot, this is very fitting with the Themes you mentioned NTFS because this is something the Engineers had been doing for a VERY VERY Longtime..

3. Conquest 

Hits the Nail on the Head.... Conquest/Discovery can lead to Leaps in Evolution to Aid with the other TWO Traits.

The Discovery of ALIEN Technology would surely make Enormous Changes to HOW Mankind goes about those THREE TRAITS that you pointed out.

By exploring the Engineers, or then even any Race/Species connected to them, we still are connected to the Xenomorph, as opposed to say exploring a World of Arcturian's or say another Bug Species like Starship Troopers.

There was an idea of plastic eating bacteria in this topic.

There may be worms, bark beetles, or fire ants that consume plastic based materials.

In the end plastic is an organic material and a hungry alien organism is not very picky when it is about its own survival.

Like this concept because it removes the immortality of androids. The infected androids will become severely dysfunctional. They need a complex and expensive repair after such infection.

In space androids do not last forever...

< First AVP was a good adventure movie

Since when was the first AVP an adventure movie? It had the plot of a standard SYFY Original movie plot = your average B movie

"The studio can produce large number of Alien tragedies as long as they create a meaningful story around this mystical even mythical creature."

I had put something maybe similar in my Origae-6 thread, which is to Ponder what Origae-6 would be like and what could happen next...

I pondered what if the World had Remnants of a Long Lost Civilization that had Disappeared MANY MANY Thousands of Years ago....   so the Covenant Colony discover some Ancient Ruins, and start to do some Archeological Digging.

They Discover Giants, and a Serpent, that could be some kind of Ancient Hammerpede like Organism.

Dr Huang

What a discovery, we have found who must have lived in those ruined buildings, look at the size of them.

Dr Philips

Certainly when Jacob had invested a lot of time on the vetting of this World, we would never had imagined it had been previously inhabited.

Walter

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to

Dr Philips

I never knew you was interested in Religious Quotations Walter, indeed it appears we have found evidence of such Giants.

Walter

This was something Dr Shaw was interested in

Dr Philips

Who?

Dr Huang

She was a fellow Archeologist, she had studied the connection of Archeological Evidence and how it connected to possible Extra Terrestrials being the influence for our Myths and Religions.

I never knew that you had a interest in her work Walter.

Dr Philips

I wonder what this Giant Serpent was.

Walter

We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us.

Dr Huang

SMILES at Walter

I doubt this was any kind of Punishment

Walter

well the Gods dont take too kindly on rebellion and betrayal

Dr Philips

This other Skeleton seems to have its Rib cage broken, likely from some Internal Trauma

Walter

The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. They have venom like the venom of a serpent; Like a deaf cobra that stops up its ear,

Dr Phillips

What do you mean by that?

Walter

Maybe their Blood is Tainted, a Poison running inside, born of wickedness and so wickedness shall be born from them.

After they Uncover Skeletal Remains of this Serpent, they do latter Discover a Alive One!