Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

@Hox

Yeah i forgot about that comment by Bishop ;)

Using a NUKE simulator, which cant be taken as Gospel..  i showed the effects of a 100MT Nuke (Most Powerful Nuke ever developed but only Tested at 50MT) at Ground Blast and did the same for a 1MT Blast to see the difference.

So we can assume something that would Vaporize Nebraska would have to be MUCH MUCH Powerful, doing some comparisons i would ASSUME such a Blast would have to be the Equivalent of 7500MT of TNT and then the affects of such a Blast as far as Radiation may make such a Plot of using Radioactive Eggs and NULL and Void...

But of course we DONT know how much Protection the Derelict would give.

Regarding HOW FAR the Derelict is away... this really is open for debate because we have NO Data... not that i am aware of.

Looking at how fast the Vehicle was going in ALIENS DC and the Terrain, i would say 30MPH is a Good Estimate, we dont know if the Terrain is as Hostile for the Total Distance.

We can only Estimate the Speed of the Vehicle  which i would think would be at least 25MPH but i cant see these going faster than say 80MPH  but again looking at the Terrain and the Video Footage, you could assume they was traveling across that Terrain about 25-40MPH Max.

Then we dont know how long you would take the Kids with you, on one hand would you put the kids through a Long Journey?  Why not have them stay with someone else on Hadleys Hope while Mommy and Daddy have to go some place...  But then maybe if its a LONG Journey maybe they would take the kids with them?

So its hard to speculate on how long they drove for and at what speed...   all we can do is maybe take Bishops Word for it and then a BLAST that Strong would have to have about a 500 Mile Radius as far as Fire Ball effects.. and Heavy Blast Radius (that would Down Buildings and Kill 100% within). 

 But as we dont know any of the DATA and looking at the Engineers Ships, i think we could speculate that MAYBE the Eggs Survived, and also the possibility of them being Contaminated by Radiation is Plausible.

IF they gave us another Movie where they salvaged the Derelict i am sure they could come up with a Valid Reason for its Survival by using a combination of the Protection the Derelict offered and how tough the ship was, and the Distance away from Hadleys Hope.

IF they did this then its likely they would not even give any details... it would be like "Sir we managed to extract the Alien Ship, shes suffered some Damage from the Nuclear Blast but she is intact, we have detected levels of Radiation so we need to take precautions"

I will add that the Simulator only allows up to 100MT  Tests and so maybe i would need to use a Asteroid Test that would give Yields required to Blast Out most of Nebraska?

So as with a Asteroid Impact of that size, we can easily assume that the Blast would Create a Crater and Eject MASSES of Material into the Air, which could BURY the Derelict Far Away.

Gavin

But remember that LV-426, AKA Acheron is a moon with an equatorial diameter of 12,201 km

It was 1200 km.

@Leto,

Ash did say 1200 km, but Xenopedia says 12,201 km source the Colonial Marines Technical Manual as its source, and some contend the CMTM is canon, either way, it's only a difference of 201 km.

Gavin

Well, I just use official knowledge. Whatever, WY Report said what Derelict located at a distance of 30 km from Hadley's Hope. 1-2 hours drive.

Prior to Bishop's comments about the colony being a cloud of vapour the size of Nebraska, he says that when it blows, it will have a blast radius of 30km, equal to about 40 megatons. Cameron's first draft was

"I'm projecting total systems failure in a little under four hours. The blast radius will be about thirty kilometers. About equal to ten megatons."

I guess he meant that the vaporised colony would balloon out into a very large cloud.

That does put a smaller limit on how far away the Juggernaut could be. But, frankly, I find it extremely hard to believe that a 20-year-old colony would not be aware of that massive ship right on their doorstep. If you're in a craft coming into land at a spaceport you can see well beyond 30km. It's inconceivable that the Juggernaut could be so close and yet remain unseen.

The derelict could not be too far from Hadleys Hope, if we suppose Jorden was rescued and taken to the infirmary, where the chest bursts occured. Being the same eggs as in Alien we should calculate the same incubation time for the chestburster. Even if in Aliens the chest bursting occurred immediately after Jorden arrived at Hadleys Hope, how much time could we take into account?

If the incubation was about 12 hours in Alien, so 12 hours for the rescue mission to arrive at the derelict site and take him back, so 6 hours driving distance between Hadley Hope and the derelict? 6 hours by 20 mph gives maximum 120 miles.

I think back in 1986, no one thought much about future movies or got too wound around the axles about really fine details. It seems the intent with Bishop's statements meant the great LV-426 Kablooie yielded nothing surviving or being salvageable. 

Besides the distance from the centre of the explosion, we also have the Ilium Range to consider which might protect the Derelict (and the eggs).

@daliens,

We cannot presume that Russ Jorden, and by extension, the colonists of Hadley's Hope were subjugated by the same eggs that seen by Kane in 57 years prior...

Remember, Kane was lowered into a deep cavernous and quite extensive structure which housed thousands, possibly millions of eggs. Kane gained access to this "egg silo" from an acid-burnt hole in the platform of the dead pilots which was presumably located in the middle of the vessel. Prior to this Kane, along with Dallas and Lambert had gained access t the alien vessel via one of three vaginal shaped airlocks located to the rear-and-centre of the ship. Yet 57 years later Ann and Russ Jorden enter the derelict Juggernaut through an opening created by the collapse of one of the vessels "arms".

Furthermore, the creature that ended up aboard the Nostromo was not just bio-mechanical in appearance, but if we are to take the directors cut as canon, reproduced by morphing one of its victims (in this instance Brett) into an egg. Conversely, the specimens encountered within the Hadley's Hope colony were of a more skeletal appearance and reproduced courtesy of a mother-caste known as the Queen.

Yes, it was James Cameron's intention that the colonists would venture into the same "egg silo" Kane did beforehand, but from what the movies show us it supports my theory about the derelict and the eggs...

Which in short is that the derelict Juggernaut docked with a structure (previously built around the cave) whereby it would gather specimens of eggs that had been discovered within the cave. While some of these eggs where undoubtedly sent to LV-223 for further research and weaponization, I also believe the pilot of the derelict Juggernaut was conducting his own research on the eggs aboard his vessel, creating a eusocial (ant/bee like caste system) variant, the eggs of which were created and stored in the arm of the vessel which was later explored by the Jordens.

As for whether the eggs survived or not, as per the OT, we can only speculate. but as per my belief that the eggs are but one of many caches of such scattered throughout the galaxy/universe, whether or not those destroyed on LV-426 would ultimately matter very little, in the bigger picture.

Remember, Kane was lowered into a deep cavernous and quite extensive structure which housed thousands, possibly millions of eggs.

But only two (or three) sections with a blue stasis field were alive.

Which in short is that the derelict Juggernaut docked with a structure (previously built around the cave) whereby it would gather specimens of eggs that had been discovered within the cave. While some of these eggs where undoubtedly sent to LV-223 for further research and weaponization, I also believe the pilot of the derelict Juggernaut was conducting his own research on the eggs aboard his vessel, creating a eusocial (ant/bee like caste system) variant, the eggs of which were created and stored in the arm of the vessel which was later explored by the Jordens.

I liked the idea that Jordens didn't go to Egg Silo, instead they turned to Derelict Lab. What can opened up the theory that the Queen is experiment of Space Jockey. Good explanation.

"I also believe the pilot of the derelict Juggernaut was conducting his own research on the eggs aboard his vessel, creating a eusocial (ant/bee like caste system) variant, the eggs of which were created and stored in the arm of the vessel which was later explored by the Jordens."

In this case, the pilot must be David, he is responsible for that eusocial type of xenomorphs that infested the franchise from Aliens onwards.

I don't know if we'll ever get to see the Big Chap again, most probably all the good eggs were destroyed in the blast.

The WONDERS of Flaws in the Movies ;)  I think as DK indicated its intended to not matter and a case of Oversight!

But it does allow for many debates.

I have not read the W-Y Report, i can assume the 30Km Distance may have came from what Bishop had said as pointed out by HOX and thus added to the Report.

Sometimes Movie Plots are not 100% Scientifically Correct, and so to pick some Flaws, we could counter argue that actually Xenomorphs DONT exist either.

So regarding the 30KM i think this was used as a Plot Device to indicate that the Blast Would Reach the Derelict and THUS render its Cargo Destroyed... (but thats not to say it could have Survived).  I think if we are talking a Blast Radius we need to wonder is this the Fireball?  Radioactive Energy Burst (cause severe Burns) or the Air Burst which at short distances would Destroy Buildings...   The Radioactive Radius even at its Highest Concentration would not Destroy the Derelict, the Fireball Blast maybe could... and the closer Air Blast could BURY the Derelict.

So the Vapor Cloud could be from dust and other Vapor released from the Blast, and not that it would Vaporize the State of Nebraska as well a 40MT Yield would not even scratch Nebraska... as far as a area that would Vaporize the area (as nothing remains).

For a Blast to in effect Wipe Out completely a area of 30KM would require a 150-200MT Blast!

But such things are just Oversights... i think a 30KM distance to the Derelict would suggest that indeed that ATV would have taken about a Hour Drive..

As daliens pointed out though, surely the Colonist would NOT have missed the Derelict being so close... unless the Storms on LV-426 make it hard to detect by means such as Radar etc and also the Clouds/Dust Storms would make it maybe Impossible to Visibly see it when coming to Land at the Colony Outpost.

The whole Egg Silo Kane went into and IF its part of the Ship Debate is a whole different Kettle of Fish!

Prometheus shows us the Juggernaught has different Cargo Holds... If we take those Schematics and assume the Derelict has similar, then indeed the Jordon's could have ventured to ONE Hold in one of the ARM Sections, compared to Kane's more Central one... but then IF we assume the Holds are of Similar Size.... again these Cargo Holds are FAR too Large to Fit inside the Derelict.

This i feel is just Oversight.... it would be interesting HOW they would have tackled this IF we got a conclusion to the Prequels...

As we have NO clear answers as far as on Screen... we have NOT yet seen the Eggs Loaded on the Derelict then anything can be changed!

As Gavin had said we could go the EGG Silo route...

Then it opens up the case of was the Derelict taking Eggs from the Egg Silo, or was it dropping off Eggs there for Storage?  

Which then could raise the Question of the Space Jockey, which would mean during the Docking of the Ship to this Egg Silo he had become infected at some point, and its a case of was he then TRYING to leave but got NO-WHERE as opposed to Crash Landed?

As daliens pointed out though, surely the Colonist would NOT have missed the Derelict being so close... unless the Storms on LV-426 make it hard to detect by means such as Radar etc and also the Clouds/Dust Storms would make it maybe Impossible to Visibly see it when coming to Land at the Colony Outpost.

The colonists thought that the ship is part of the mountain range.

@daliens,

As pointed out in another thread, Weyland Corp and David knew of the "warning" signal coming from LV-426, therefore it is impossible for David to become the Space Jockey.

Also although the Alien re-created by David was created using insect DNA (among others), there is no clear indication that the 'Morphs he created had a eusocial caste system other than Davids "Queen" statement, which could be inferred multiple ways.

Additionally if, as I believe, the eggs within the silo are the true eggs and those discovered by the Jordens were the result of experiments stored onboard the Juggernaut it is possible, and highly probable that if David does indeed introduce a eusocial caste system to his rendition of the Xenomorph that they are completely unrelated. This is known as Convergence.

It was shown in Prometheus that the Engineers revered, possibly and likely even praised/worshipped the Xenomorph, but the Engineers on Planet 4 had renounced the creature. Originally Scott had the idea that Jesus was an Engineer, and that his crucifixion was the reason for the planned attack on us 2000 years ago. Instead, it now looks as though a less on the nose religious analogy has been introduced, and one more in line with the Prometheus myth - that for abandoning their faith the Engineers are being punished by their gods, The Xenomorph, and their new champion, their new dark angel; David.

As for the debate of whether or not the egg silo is a separate structure, as I believe it is, or not. In another thread, BigDave linked the following image illustrating the likely layout of the egg silo, and its scale in relation to the derelict Juggernaut...

Not only does the image of the egg silos layout share many similarities with the domes seen on LV-223 it is also quite large, and therefore if it was part of the vessel would mean that over half of the derelict Juggernaut was buried underground on LV-426. However, taking into account the Juggernauts we have seen in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, both of which did not feature such bulbous undercarriages, and the underbelly opening seen in Alien: Covenant (which David uses to bomb the Engineers, and the Covenant crew later use to access the Juggernaut) we can speculate with a high degree of certainty that the derelict Juggernaut docked using a similar opening onto the top of a dome-shaped structure within which the eggs lay; the egg silo.

As to whether or not the eggs were stored there by the pilot or discovered, I prefer the latter idea. Because if there is one cache of Xenomorph eggs on a barren, primordial moon in an uninhabited system, it is possible there could be other caches elsewhere in the galaxy/universe, possibly many, many more - could the Earth be one of the last of the inhabited planets not subjugated by the Xenomorph. Is this why the Engineers turned away from spreading the Xenomorph and instead used what they had learned to seed life rather than destroy it, showing that they not only renounced their gods but outright defied them; a la Prometheus.

My “belief” is that the eggs on LV-426 survived the explosion of the air processor. The distance from Hadley’s Hope was probably sufficient and the site is also protected by the Ilium Range. This scenario also opens up for sequels which starts with an expedition (by W-Y) back to LV-426 to see if the eggs are still there (waiting).

As for how the eggs got there and what happened to the pilot, I think I stick to the connection to LV-223. The eggs on LV-426 are neatly stored in rows and there is engineer technology there such as piers and layers of mist. The size suggests a cave which is made into a storage area for the eggs.

The pilot (space jockey) was (probably) either on his way to collect eggs or to place new eggs in this storage facility. He is infected either on LV-223, on his way to LV-426 or on LV-426. He then sets the warning beacon. This scenario would mean that the engineers experimented with the pathogen on LV-223, but the products were stored on LV-426.

@chli,

Some of the reasons I prefer the opposing theory to the one you state - that the eggs are the source of the pathogen that was then experimented on by the Engineers on LV-223 and that they are but one of many caches of eggs hidden throughout the galaxy/universe, are...

# It allows the story to move beyond LV-426.

# It eliminates sequels endlessly needing to return to LV-426, which would become tiresome really quickly.

# The threat that the end of Alien posed, that of a cache of thousands of eggs, (which Aliens negated if we are to believe that the eggs were destroyed by the explosion of Hadley's Hopes' atmosphere processor) is not only returned to prominence but is magnified.

Also, it is my belief that when the engineers discovered the eggs on LV-426 that they augmented the cave with their technology - such as implementing the blue-mist as a system to warn them if one of the eggs "hatched".

Gavin

As long as David isn’t the creator of the xenomorph, I’m open to suggestions. :) I definitely don’t mind seeing the xenomorph as an ancient species but if they already had “the perfect organism”, what then were they trying to achieve on LV-223? In order to wipe out Earth, one egg would probably suffice . . .

chli

I think, Engineers use "the perfect organism" for their own improvement. Look - The Last Engineer looks almost like the xenomorph.

That's an interesting thought, Leto! They extract the black goo from the xenomorph (the perfect being) in order to improve themselves: stronger, healthier, longevity etc - the elixir of life! They had already been up that avenue when Peter Weyland shows up . . .

Leto

Or the alpha and omega is the black goo, not the xenomorph.

By the black goo the Enginners improved themselves and obtained the xenomorphs. 

But while they learned how to safely handle the black goo, they were not capable to tame the xenomorphs. That's why their admiration and fear (the ingredients leading to idolatry) for the xenomorph.