Proposing Paradise as the last instalment to the Alien prequel trilogy!

LV223 seemed abandoned by Engineers for many years before Prometheus arrived, possibly immediately after the outbreak.

Was the outbreak a lesson learnt by the Engineers,  the turning point that made them renounce their wolf (whatever that meant, black goo or xenomorphs)?

I think it was intensely debated in the past and if anyone reached a conclusion, can you please explain the meaning of the scorpion vessel from Alien Covenant?

Was it for defense, for surveillance of the Engineers on planet 4, was it to prevent the other Juggernauts from the undergound hangar to leave the planet? Did it belong to the civilization from planet 4 or to some higher civilization?

Why was it hovering above the plaza?

We all have seen the Juggernauts are able to dock without assistance and I don't see how the scorpion ship could have assisted.

Sorry to go off topic, but since we debate the future ideas, that vessel could be the missing link.

I didn't wanna do this but...

I fully understand that within a community such as our own that there will be a mixture of personalities, perspectives, and beliefs, and that it is inevitable some of these may contrast, even conflict with one another. I've been here nearly 7 years (has it really been that long, shit), with most of that time being in an admin capacity (I ain't flexing no keyboard muscles here, just saying), and I was a regular over at the Epic Games forums for many years prior. In addition to the responsibilities and privileges my role bestows upon me here I am, as are we all, a fan at heart, and as such love to get into discussions and debates about my favorite franchises, such as Alien. However, within such exchanges of ideas, theories and speculation one rule should remain no matter whether it be on any of Scified's forums or any others (although many other forums regularly ignore this rule), and that rule is paramount - always discuss/debate the topic, never the individual. In other words, keep it clean and on topic, never get personal and never get emotional. The breaching of this rule can take many forms, some more obvious than others (such as being threatened or bullied or ridiculed, for example), with the less obvious being needlessly negative, presumptuous or judgmental towards another individual. The TLDR version of this is - don't be a dick, it sours the experience for many, and for some, it is the only means of socializing so let's keep it, at the very least, hospitable.

Now back to the topic in hand...

I had hoped the "spitballing" of ideas for a Paradise sequel to Alien: Covenant would be more unrestrained and creative, but it seems some believe that we must temper our expectations and creativity around the real-world logistics of such a production ever being greenlit. While I agree that we must, as in life, remain rooted, no creative or artistic vision is beyond the realms of possibility. Had Arthur C. Clarke and Stanley Kubrick tempered their expectations this way then 2001: A Space Odyssey would have never even made it to preproduction. As such, let us not be tied down by such restraints and instead dare to dream. This may be a fruitless exercise, but so too is the participating in a forum, which by that logic means we shouldn't even bother at all.

The biomechanical queen idea returns...

Noomi Rapace is a terrific actress with a tremendous range. A case in point would be to compare her seven roles in What Happened to Monday against Michael Fassbender's two roles in Alien: Covenant or even Assassin's Creed. Sadly she is not a character 'actor' like Tom Hardy, Gary Oldman, Brad Pitt, etc. I bring this up because if Noomi was to reprise her role of Shaw, especially after how the character was monumentally mishandled, then her role would have to be of interest enough to the actress. Additionally, I think said role should also play towards her strengths, one of which is portraying a wide range of emotions. To that end, I think that a resurrected Shaw, within a biomechanical shell, should face her existence on an emotional level, either through learning the horrors inflicted upon her by David (in both Prometheus and Alien: Covenant), or upon learning/realizing that her beliefs are mere delusions and that her existence is inconsequential.

@ BigDave,

While I do agree that the final movie in a trilogy has to be conclusive in nature, it does not need to answer every question to fulfill that purpose.

For the Alien prequel's the only arc that absolutely needs to be concluded is David's narrative, and even then his narrative does not need to end definitively.

As for the origin of the eggs on LV-426, their origin matters not, only that as preference would seem to dictate, they should remain mysterious in nature, and as such should not be related to whatever David thinks he has created. The simplest answer would be to somehow reveal the eggs have been on LV-426 for more than 35,000 years, and that Davids re-creation is either inferior or derivative. While serving the narrative of the franchise this could also serve towards a conclusion for David's character arc, whereby he must inevitably face the repercussions of his actions either internally or through some other agent, possibly at the hands of the Engineers, or maybe even Shaw herself - hell hath no fury, remember.

As for Daniels, I feel Katherine Waterson's range is in comparison rather limited (no offense), especially when compared to Noomi. Additionally, I doubt many would even notice, nor care if Daniels was excluded from a sequel. And I doubt the actress would want to take second billing to Noomi in a, quite frankly, cameo role.

@ daliens,

Ah, the scorpion "mothership". One of the few biomechanical elements with Alien: Covenant, an aesthetic the prequels should have been relishing in and exploring, as BigDave mentioned.

I still prefer and believe that the Space Jockey and Engineers are separate entities. However, I believe that the Space Jockey does not need to be explored in the prequels, only referenced, inferred. However, the Engineers were introduced in Prometheus and as such need to further explored and/or expanded upon.

I think that clarifying the Engineers role and relationship in regards to mankind and/or the Xenomorph is an absolute must. It will not only compliment the biomechanical aesthetic of the biomechanical city I proposed in the OP but would also help tie the prequels into Alien. Again, not everything needs to be spoon-fed, with inference and ambiguity being powerful tools that can be used to help connect the prequels into the bigger franchise while also be used to hint at another, parallel narrative, as per Prometheus' intention.

David's understanding of Engineer language could be used here to relate this to the audience, with the discoveries he uncovers fulfilling the necessary roles in the narrative I just mentioned.

Personally, I still believe that the Engineers are primitive human slaves, used by some higher power (Space Jockeys maybe) to carry out the work that the dead pilot on LV-426 failed. Maybe the scorpion "mothership" and its position floating above the Engineer city is a godlike reminder/instrument of the said higher power. Or exploring other possibilities, possibly a remnant of the Engineers' biomechanical past that they once used but have since renounced (explaining their look, technology and their abandonment of the "wolf").

Yet, I notice that despite the calls for a human element, most postulations seem to be regarding either David or Shaw. In what form should the human element take?

@Gavin Sorry if I was a d!*k but the fact is whatever we talk here is pretty much irrelevant. People in droves are cheering on Youtube for grandma Sigourney's reenactment of the Newt introduction scene from Aliens, while on these forum are merely 58 users online when I write. Many people disappeared after Covenant, especially does who liked so much. There is more money to be made in a nostalgia fest (even if Covenant was full of nostalgia).

And you know it is also pretty useless to expect something with substance from Scott and Logan, with the first being foremost a business man , easily bending to corporate demands, and the other said that Sci-fi is a minor genre. On the other hand, Kubrick was one of the most intelligent and well read directors ever working who staid as far away from Hollywood and his only commercial film was Spartacus. So I can't even imagine that the latter 2 would compromise with the studios, and yet the first 2 have done it countless times. Sure they could try bringing new blood to continue the story, but Disney would interfere with their nostalgia cr@p.

As for Noomi, I would buy a ticket for ever movie which comes to the cinema. But killing off Daniels is a also a bad idea as we don't know how many of the normies/fans liked her and could result in further complaints.

PS. Studios are also responsible for the lack of the Giger touch, since they are screwing him and his estate over since Alien 3.

@daliens

I think we could safely speculate that LV-223 was likely Abandoned after the Outbreak, You have to Wonder what Safe-Guards are in Place to deal with such a Outbreak as Janek had said he had to PULL THE PLUG on a Scientific Outpost on Earth. So we could wonder COULD the Engineers have found a way to Quarantine or Destroy that Complex.  Leaving the others still in USE?  Do we Assume the other Complexes had also suffered from a Outbreak?  Do we Assume they were so concerned with the Outbreak that was Out of Control that there was the Potential for it to spread to the OTHER Outposts so they abandoned them?

Or had they decided after the ONE Outpost Outbreak they would Abandon the Entire Facilities?  Another Consideration would be was the Outpost Targeted by another Contingent who wanted to Put a Stop to what was going on in those Places, and after doing this they had abandoned the place instead of Destroying it?  These are all Questions we dont really have any answers for.

Regarding the Scorpionaught (Scorpion Ship) it was confirmed by Wayne Haagg that it was some kind of Border Control, we dont know if it was Automated or Manned.  The Concept works seemed to show it had come from the Hanger at the Point that the Juggernaught had entered the Atmosphere but the Movie seems to indicate that the Scorpionaught had not come from the Hanger or would even FIT inside. 

It was proclaimed to be some kind of Protective Measure but had some kind of DUST UP (Fight) with the Juggernaught and had Crashed as a Result.  We have to wonder what kind of Safe-Guard this was at it appeared to be Helpless against the Juggernaught and Unleashing its Cargo, you would assume such a Safe-Guard would be able to Disable the Juggernauts?

We could look at the Ship having some Protective Measures and Border Control, we could speculate that ONCE the Ship was Destroyed/Crashed that it Disabled the ability for other Ships to Leave, (the Deleted Scene and Concept showed there was other Juggernauts in the Hanger).

"Did it belong to the civilization from planet 4 or to some higher civilization?"

Who knows... it appears the Purpose of this Craft was to Monitor and Manage incoming/leaving Juggernauts and those appeared to be the ONLY kind of Bio-Mechanical Technology on Planet 4.

The Craft maybe could also Monitor the Planet and its as if it was WATCHING over that City, which i think we can assume is the only Engineer City on this World.

Maybe when we look at Paradise (Biblical Account) in this Context we can make some Sense of it, Paradise was the Place where the Garden of Eden was located, it was a Place that the Cradle of Human Creation.  It was NOT a place were GOD (Gods) came from, its was NOT were we go in the After-Life, it was a place that Cherubim (Angels) would WATCH over from the Skies to keep a EYE on Gods Creations, and act as a Border Control/Security?

We dont have to be too Literal Here, but if we look at it like that then it could Kind of Match.

Things to Consider....

*The Engineers had little Concern for the Ship, they are aware of these ships, yet Welcome them, maybe we could assume they are Military being Welcomed Home, and they have NO Fear of the Weapon, because they are so NAIVE to think there is NO possibility of any of their own kind TURNING the Weapon upon their OWN KIND? 

Or indeed there is NO way any of their Creations would ever be able to get to any Outposts these Ships/Bio-Weapons are located, because their Creations are only TAUGHT limited knowledge and kept even Less Advanced than the Planet 4 City Looked, they maybe would attempt to Destroy or Abandon Way-Ward Children/Creations thinking that WITHOUT the Engineers knowledge they would NEVER advance to be a Space Faring Race. (thus Threat).

*The ONLY location of any Advanced Technology regarding more Advanced than Mankind Possesses say NOW (or near Future) was the Scorpionaught and Juggernauts and that HANGER.

*The Engineers appeared to be Flocking to the Plaza around the Hanger to Welcome the Ship, as if this is something they DONT see too often or signals something of Great Importance.  (they have no Fear or Concerns).

*The Engineers appear to be Dressed in Garments that are reminiscent of Ancient Times, but some appear to wear more Ritual/Ceremonial Robes.

*The Hanger is Surrounded by Four Statues that appear to be like the Buddhist Offering Statues, they appear to be Holding Something. We could maybe assume could this be a Sacrificial Bowl?  If we assume the Statues looking like Buddha Offering Statues is for a Reason (Offer something).  Then could this indicate that the Return of a Ship means a Ceremonial Sacrifice is due?

*The Plaza has Statues of Engineers, if we consider a Superficial Offering and Contemplate that maybe the Juggernauts are a Advanced Seeding Ship, where Engineers are Sacrificed and their Broken Down (after Goo) Material is Stored in Urns... then would dropping Engineer DNA Urns onto a World be a more Efficient Seeding than sending down a LONE Engineer to do the Task?

This would explain why those Engineers are NOT afraid, and if the Sacrifice is seen as a Great Ritual/Honor where the Chosen are in essence going to be Immortalized by their Seed Creating Life, and also then having a Statue Erected in their Honor, then maybe Planet 4's Purpose makes more Sense?

Especially as Ridley Scott still refers to them as Gardeners of Space.

Thats just my interpretation though.

"I didn't wanna do this but..."

Absolutely everyone can have their own different views and theories and opinions, its their right to have these. Sometimes i maybe come across as Forceful about my opinions i hope this is not the case as its not intended.  I have noticed other Sites do Spiral out of Control and its WHY i just stick to here ;)

"Alien: Covenant would be more unrestrained and creative,"

I certainly think we could be Creative, the Scope of Prometheus was HUGE it maybe had TOO much Scope to be done any Justice within the Restraints of a Movie, especially when the Studios would be looking at something that would engage most fans.

Its a Good Point about  Stanley Kubrick as i felt Ridley Scott was trying to expand the Franchise to give us a more Thought Provoking, Space Adventure type Spin Off Franchise, than to center around the Xenomorph alone..

so in Context to a "Dare to Dream" i think its interesting to open up our imagination to things that would not be restricted by Running Time or what Disney would feel the Fans would want.  My reply about a LV-223 Movie was just in context that this would be the more Easy Route to become something more ALIENY and Steer Away from all the things that a Prometheus Sequel was intended to Steer Away from... which is shame as i would have liked to had seen such a Direction (Steer Away from ALIEN).

"As for the origin of the eggs on LV-426, their origin matters not, only that as preference would seem to dictate,"

I have to agree, but this is what some would expect... i think its a shame in Hindsight that Prometheus did-not have some more ALIENY Elements and LESS Ambiguous Clues to the Xenomorph, so then the Door could have been Closed to ALIEN.

Perhaps enough clues to suggest David's Xenomorphs are NOT on LV-426 would be enough, this could be done by some Dialog especially if David is shown to Evolve/Create his own Humanoids..  then when he is confronted by some Humans he could go on about HOW he had Perfected the Engineers Lamb in Creating a more Superior Humanoid, and that this is NOTHING compared to the Perfection he has in mind for the Engineers Wolf..  He then shows them a EGG. We could have some more similar Dialog that would then indicate he HAD created his own Version.   Thus NO need to even see the Original LV-426 Event...  (but some Fans would still want to see this).

This is WHY maybe a LV-223 Movie that would be kind of a Re-Do of Prometheus Mixed with Alien Engineers that would be LESS ambiguous but NOT Spoon Feed the Xenomorph would also then CLOSE the DOOR to the Franchise, and then allow us to explore what David gets up to without the Restraints of having to be about Xenomorphs.

But in context to this Topic we can talk about things that dont have to cater for Fans who want to just see movies that would center around the Xenomorph and its Origins.

"Personally, I still believe that the Engineers are primitive human slaves, used by some higher power (Space Jockeys maybe"

I think that certainly could be something to explore.. i think the Answers have always been in our FACE... in that DAVID is the KEY, he would related to the Continuing Creation ARC and Purpose that is maybe Repeated over and over. In such a Narrative then IF we see David Evolves those Embryos to be his own Superior Version of Humanity then its likely the Conclusion could be they would REBEL against David... in which Case David would then have to use his WOLF.

What i mean is that David was not merely created to be the Cherished Son that Peter Weyland had always wanted. So maybe we was NOT created by the Engineers to be Loved and Cherished but for other Reasons, and this could keep going back and back and apply to the Engineers too.

GOD => Angels => Mankind

Anunnaki => Igigi => Mankind

Titans => Olympians = Mankind

So yes having the Humanity and Engineers Creations being related to the same Purpose could be interesting, are Mankind Created to replace the Engineers? if so by the Engineers or by those above the Engineers?

I certainly think we could go UP say a LAYER or TWO and have this explain the Space Jockey Race, and even a Race above them!

@BigDave sure there are hierarchies of gods in mythology but do the relations are not quite as straight forward as you claim. In many myths I know there is a personification of the primordial Chaos from which things spring up, or at least must be overcome to bring order. This Entity could be considered somewhat equivalent to Lovecraft's Elder Gods, and the Goop itself could have been a by-product of the process of apparent taming. This is what the mural showed, with the Engineer subduing the Bird-creature with xenomorph type hands.

And there also the fact that in some variants of the Greek myths humans are created by Prometheus (a Titan) and Athena (an Olympian), so sometimes the various generations can cooperate.

@ ignorantGuy,

Nostalgia didn't work out too well for Alien: Covenant, and may not work out so well for an action-packed Alien movie. Disney and Fox, and especially Emma Watts know their industry and their market. Granted they make the odd faux pas (X-Men: Apocalypse, The Predator, etc.) but with an established franchise such as the Alien franchise the fact that only one of the four preferred movies (Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Prometheus) is action orientated, together with Scott's influence of returning its franchise to its roots as a science fiction horror (despite not actually being a horror director) are more likely. The only slight concern is that Disney may influence Fox to lessen the more gory and sexual elements so that future Alien movies can be released with a lower rating in the hope of attracting somewhat bigger audiences - but from a business and logical perspective, this makes perfect sense.

Although this discussion isn't about Neill Blomkamp's proposed movie, imagine this - what if Blomkamp's movie (minus Ripley and Co., to appease fans) was made revisiting elements such colonial marines, dropships, APC's, etc., but was executed as a horror movie rather than an action movie. Such a movie if executed well could please fans of both Alien and Aliens, merging the sense of dread and fear from the first movie with the aesthetic of the second movie.

As for Noomi vs Katherine. Thanks to Prometheus, Girl with a Dragon Tatoo, and Bright many fans are becoming aware of Noomi's potential. Waterston, on the other hand, is a virtual nobody, with some audiences (the I don't care about Alien type), thinking the character she played was Ripley.

I would wager the head of the "Giger screw over" movement since Alien 3 would be David Giler, and I'm sure most are aware of my feelings in that regard.

@ BigDave,

Sacrifice is a common theme not only in antiquity but also in the lore of the Engineers as shown in the opening scene of Prometheus. It is likely that some Engineers are chosen to be sacrificial either directly (Prometheus opening scene) or indirectly (LV-223) which would explain the commonalities between the two that separate them somewhat from the Paradise City Engineers (musculature, complexion, darkened eyes, etc.), suggesting such Chosen few are augmented in some way.

As with ancient civilizations, it is likely that despite their primitive nature the ruling castes of Engineer society, presumably, the Elders are more knowledgable of the true nature behind their Eden Paradise, their heritage as humans, and the deal they have made with the devil. As such, and as hinted at in Advent it is likely these Elders believing they were acting in their societies best interests, broke their part of the deal and renounced the "wolf".

Elements as deeply philosophical and mythological could be included in a simple scene whereby one of the lead characters discovers some Engineer hieroglyphs, that fans could pause on DVD/Blu-Ray and decrypt, without overburdening general/casual audiences with time-consuming exposition.

As for the conclusion to Davids narrative arc, I think elevating the character to potentially greater delusions of grandeur would further distance any association fans have with the character. In Prometheus, David was an interesting enigma, but all too often many have related that in ALien: Covenant David has become a caricature, a stereotypical mustache-twirling uber-villain. What Davids arc needs is redemption or humility because for his arc to be effective we have to be able to associate with his case, no matter how maniacal it may seem on the surface. We need understandable context to his madness - Vader was cool and threatening, but once is narrative was expanded he became 3-dimensional and multifaceted, and much more interesting and relatable as a character.

@Gavin What you describe is more or less the AvP video games without the P part.

How can you say that Waterston is nobody as she was starred in the 2 Fantastic Beasts movies (and will also be in the third), both making more (in total more than 1.4 bn dollars world-wide) than anything (and combined everything) Rapace was in, including the second Sherlock movie with Robert Downey Jr. American audiences don't even know or care about the original Swedish Girl series, for them there is only Fincher's remake. How can the 2 Netflix movies quantified as BO potential? And I don't think they could afford killing yet another "lead". If money is king it's obvious for them to pick Waterston or to bring somebody new in.

I don't understand the concern for lack of gore and sex, Covenant was the most gory in the series and did that help? The real problems are nostalgia and rehashing (which were already there in Covenant) which are the only thing Disney seem to produce (The Star Wars sequels, live action adaptations, some of the recent MCU movies).

@ignorantGuy,

AvP Games? I have played them (Capcom, Monolith, and Rebellion, though not the Atari Jaguar). I see no mention of Praetorians, Specimen 8 and the like. AvP belongs in comic and video game form, so please clarify. 

Purely based on what we have seen of Waterston in Covenant, and Rapace in Prometheus, Rapace's performance was much more captivating and dynamic. I'm too old to be a Potter fan so I haven't seen what Waterston did in Fantastic Beasts. But I did see her in another movie were she was collecting blood, and she was completely forgettable.

Waterston may be the more bankable option currently speaking, but when it comes to acting ability Rapace is IMO the better choice, and in terms of their characters I feel Shaw's narrative is of more interest than that of Daniels.

I agree somewhat on the nostalgia issue, but was also pleasantly surprised by The Punisher TV series. Thus I would like to remain optimistic that Disney would recognize that Alien performs better when it remains dark and foreboding.

...

To another point now...

If a Weyland-Yutani expedition to LV-223 is to be used to supply the much needed human element of the narrative, while exploring the fate of the Prometheus we have the opportunity to add to the mythology of the Xenomorph.

If said expedition occurs at the same time as Davids story arc and that of Walter and Shaw, this would mean that Deacon will have been on LV-223 for 10+ years alone.

While we could just leave it up to speculation as to how it survived what if we instead show that it cocooned itself (a la Species, above) within some sort of biomechanical/organic hypersleep pod, waking when it senses the Weyland-Yutani vessel landing.

As for the deacons design, remember that what we saw was the burster. For the adult form, we could take some of the designs used in Scified's Design the Adult Deacon competition back in 2012 combined with that of the Deacons burster form and the classic Xenomorph...

P.S. Bear with me as I update the posts to show the images on said thread.

@Gavin Fair enough, I was talking about the Marine campaign in the '99 game. Both have experimentation on the Xenomorphs (cyber enhanced). marines, queens. The "praetorians" could have been also introduced as some form of genetic manipulation.

Judging Waterston only her very brief appearance in Logan Lucky is very superficial. Why not try Steve Jobs (where she plays Faszy's wife) of Mid90s? But judging by her filmography Covenant and the Potter prequel are her biggest roles yet.

Images fixed in the Adult Deacon thread, though some are broken or have been deleted.

@ ignorantguy,

Logan Lucky, Adam Driver and Daniel Craig were awesome in that movie. Sadly most general audiences are superficial - we all like actors that leave an impression.

If Waterston has done something that stands out performance wise, I'll be more than open to giving her a chance, but based on what I've seen thus far I think we may have already seen the limit of her range - but one can be wrong, who would have thought "that guy" from Knights Tale would give us the definitive Joker in Dark Knight.

"the relations are not quite as straight forward as you claim. In many myths I know there is a personification of the primordial Chaos"

Certainly there is quite a lot to each Mythos and Many Cultures/Mythos and Religions do share quite a lot of similar things, maybe its a case of Ticking Off the things they have in common and then sticking a HP Lovecraft Twist to them with a Dose of HR Giger Aesthetic.

The Virtue of exploring various Creation/God Mythos is it allows for a Very Rich and Broad Pot of Ideas to be looked at, but then it can also become a bit Complex when trying to Pick Which to loosely base the Franchise off and which to not.

I think Prometheus does seem to tease a bit more of a Biblical/Paradise Lost take, but i think they should not overlook the Prometheus Aspect as far as the Greek Titan.

The Fresco is something open to interpretation i looked at it as being Punishment to Prometheus.. now in context to Prometheus this could imply NOT a single being but maybe a Race of beings or Sect.

I was kind of drawn to looking at this the same way as the NEXT Layer..  Going back to Prometheus.. if we indeed assume the LV-426 Eggs were intended for Mankind, but this Mission Failed..  and Mankind now sought out the Bio-Weapon intended for them to use to their Advantage would the Xenomorph purely have only the use as a Bio-Weapon?

So could the Engineers (or those LV-223 ones) had upset their Hierarchy and been sent something as Punishment that they then eventually saw as a Potential to Improve themselves?   I think a Problem with this would be the Bio-Mechanical Ships, and IF they are Reverse Engineered from the Xenomorph or connected, then we have to ask WHY was those Planet 4 Engineers not punished too?  Prior to Alien Covenant it was a theory that made a bit more sense.

@Gavin

"suggesting such Chosen few are augmented in some way"

Certainly seems that way, when we saw Prometheus we saw that the LV-223 Engineers had this Bio-Mechanical Technology and had to ask where did this come from?  Created, Stolen or Reverse Engineered?

Alien Covenant introduced us to the Planet 4 Engineers who were just NOT as Awe Inspiring and looked more like Human Hybrids, we pondered was the differences just LAZY and Budget Cutting...  Who knows what the intention was.. but Ridley Scott came out and said that those beings are the Originals, when he talks about AI and mentions Replicants, then maybe we could ponder that the Prometheus Engineers are Augmented Planet 4 Engineers, are they a Sub-Created/Engineered version, a Selection of those Engineers who Evolved themselves, but was this permitted?

And what was the Method of this Genetic Augmentation and could this connect to the Black Goo or DNA/Traits of a Organism connected?

Regarding David indeed maybe he could be Redeemed... the Prometheus David, the Crossing David and the TRAILER SONG could lead us to ponder would he had turned out the way he had, if he had been treated KINDLY?

"if we are kind, it will be a kind world"

His response to Daniels (as Walter) when asked what kind of World can they Build.   The SEQUEL was intended to be about what kind of a world David would create/build and in this he could maybe Redeem himself.

Because on the Basis of it, we could see WALTER is not Evil as he has No Free-Will, but with Mankind we have Free-Will and our Upbringing can Shape the Person we are.. this could have affected David... but also if we consider how KIND is Mankind as far as following the Ways/Rules that a God would have set out, then a Large % would offend the Gods in todays world.   Maybe David could Create a New Civilization that is Free from Sin of Mankind.   We also have Damaged our Planet, imagine if a God came to visit us 3000 years ago, and then look at the World Today?  This is why the Covenant Crew were attempting to escape the Rotting Paradise of Earth to try and find a NEW Eden..

Maybe the Engineers had a Industrial Bio-Mechanical Revolution and realized the Damage/Hubris this caused, and so they Returned to a more Basic Life... like the Amish and Monks do etc.

Regarding the Daniels vs Shaw debate...

I have not seen as many of Watertons Performances as they are  movies that never appealed to me as far as MUST see, but i think the same thing goes with Rapace and her Character.   The Prequels were not the best written Characters or Performed, yet both Actresses are capable of better than they did.  Is this the Writers Fault, Directors or just a case of one of their lesser Performances.  I know some Fans would love to see Miss Weaver back but i dont recall many Stand Out Performances since the 2000's, she is capable of a Decent Performance Still i think regardless who is CAST its the Characters Written for them and the Input/Influence of the Director to get the best from them that counts.

Regarding the Deacon i looked at it as being Human Hybrid in terms of how it was Born (Placenta) and Fully Formed.

And so i would have assumed when Fully Grown the Creature would look similar just Snarl a Lot more and be like 10-12ft Tall. (Birthed from Engineer).  Maybe if we look at the Human Traits the Deacons Head to Body Proportions could maybe Differ a bit when its Adult (like a Human Baby vs Human Adult).

As far as what happened to the Deacon?  In context to the Movie Franchise who knows...  The Movie seemed to suggest it maybe had a 4-5 Day Gestation Period, which we can assume that Dr Shaw went back and saw the Dead Trilobite and Engineer and assumed both was DEAD and then this is when she had plenty of time to Collect Supplies for The Crossing, unless we assume by Pure Luck she found all of these from the Prometheus Exploded Wreckage.

Way late to the party. I like the idea of Paradise being the last movie to close the story loop. I also like the idea of the subjective interpretation of "Paradise". 

It is also nice to know I am not alone considering the possible effects the black goo could have on David.

I think if we are to have ONE Concluding Movie, here are perhaps the things it would have to try and cover/achieve.

1) Either have Conclude or Indicate IF our David had or Did-Not Create what EVENTUALLY end up on LV-426

2) Would have to have the Xenomorph included even if this could be a Short Scene.

3) It would have to have some Xenomorph or Similar Scenes/Monsters.

4) It would have to try and Balance between a Bit of Action, and a bit of Horror.

5) It would have to keep some of the Space Adventure Elements of Prometheus.

6) It would have to cover the Engineers or at the Space Jockey Race (if Different).

7) It would have to have Human Characters, and they would have to be Well Written/Executed.

8) It would have to LOOSELY touch upon some of the Prometheus Themes, Creation, Sub-Creation, Knowledge/Technology (Taught or Stolen) Rebellion, Hubris, Pursuit of Perfection, Immortality.

9) Leave some Clues/Information to how Special Order 937 came about and what Knowledge of the Species does the Company Have and HOW.

10) Would have to CLOSE the Door to ALIEN but open up avenues for ALIEN related Future Movies set in the Year 2122 or Beyond.  While allowing the Door OPEN to explore other Aspects regarding the Engineers, their Creators, Creations and what other Horrors they have in Store or been a part of.

It would not Necessarily have to be about any of the Characters from the Prequels so FAR...

Trying to INCLUDE most of those 10 Steps, and Please EVERY Fan is going to be a Impossible Task, all they can do is come up with a Story they FEEL may please about 50% of the Varied Fanbase and Hope for the Best!

A Movie that should be some kind of Conclusion but leave it OPEN so that Future Movies can Branch Off as ALIEN Franchise related (Xenomorphs/LV-426)  and so be set around and after 2122 or just prior in the Time Line.

WHILE the and another that can Branch Off regarding the Engineers, their Hierarchy and such! and be free to be set in ANY Time-Line..... Past (prior to 2105) Present 2105-2175 or Future  Post 2180

As far as PARADISE

Such a Name can be interpreted and used in any number of ways, are we talking Paradise as in the Engineers Home-world or the World of their Creators?

The Tag Line was:  The path to paradise begins in hell.

Which is from Dante... but regardless of that, this could be interpreted in context to ALIEN: Covenant that Planet 4 is the HELL and that this means it is NOT the place Paradise as we have YET to reach this Place!

That would be if you looking at it from the POV of David/Dr Shaw and their Odyssey in that Dr Shaw felt she would be taken to Paradise but she is taken to HELL instead!

But it also could be taken in context to the Covenant Mission, they were off to escape the Rotting Paradise of Earth in search for a NEW Eden/Paradise but they did not reach that Destination (Origae-6) instead they turned up at a World they may have thought could be a Paradise but instead was HELL for them.

In either case it could allow people to consider Planet 4 is NOT what we call Paradise.

Some could use the "Better to Rein in Hell" comment by David that indeed Planet 4 is NOT our Paradise, as this is the Place David reigns.  And thus is HELL.... its where those so called Fallen Angels came from too (Engineers).

This could mean however that the HELL that David wishes to rein in could yet be Origae-6

What it could be is that Planet 4 may have been the Paradise as far as Garden of Eden/Creation and that David had turned this Place into his HELL.

I think it’s partly an issue about subgenres. To me, Alien is sci-fi horror. It’s not fantasy. It’s more realism. To me, what made Alien so frightening was that it had an air of realism to it, with Brett and Parker as mechanics working in greasy, dirty hallways and machine areas. There is a touch of fantasy connected to the works of Giger, but I experience them more as showing that there is an alien race who has built advanced spaceships. The creature is also “realistic” with a definite biological (rather than biomechanical) look. There are drooling jaws, stealth and smooth movements - a hunter, a predator, a deadly species. There is biology with sexual organs, eggs, bodily fluids, heat and moisture, and instincts, propagation and survival.

Scott chose not to show too much of neither the creature nor Giger’s art. The biomechanical style tends to get a bit surrealistic at times. If there is too much surrealism, you obviously lose the sense of realism and you might also lose the creepy feeling of almost being there. To me, the best sci-fi is realism set in the future and perhaps in a different area of the galaxy. There is new technology (but not too fanciful) and there are extraterrestrials (but not purple with green eyes).

I don’t think Scott was particularly interested in the biomechanical part, more the looks of the creature and the juggernaut etc. I think that Scott more saw the biological aspects: rape (facehugging), procreation, eggs, animal instincts etc. I don’t think that the biomechanical aspect of it is intended to be real - a blending of biology and mechanics (technology). It’s just some of the aesthetics (of which not much was shown in Alien).

So, I’m not in favour of a blending of David’s synthetic makeup with an organic egg (facehugger). We could also see in Alien: Covenant that the eggs didn’t react to his presence. I think I prefer to see the alien as a species who has evolved in a harsh environment rather than a created thing or a mixture of a robot (synthetic) and a biological organism.

Audience division and segregation will continue in any depreciating franchise until a unifying installment is produced that satisfies the audience, of which the Alien franchise is in need of. Because we need to satisfy both the general audience and the fandom, the list of franchise settling narratives should be kept to a bare minimum so as not to overwhelm general audiences, but with enough inferences and easter eggs to satisfy the fandom and all within a well executed, paced and developed narrative. This is by no means an impossible task, but it is a difficult one even for seasoned filmmakers.

As such BigDave, your list of required narrative beats needs to be shortened/simplified...

#1 - The conclusion of Davids arc. 

#2 - Definition of the Engineer mythology. Who/what are the Engineers? What is their relationship to the Xenomorph, humans and whatever is on LV-426?

#3 - The triumphant return of the Xenomorph. The Xenomorph needs to be executed with respect - an unseen, unstoppable force.

#4 - The human element. Through relatable, well written and well portrayed characters elements of the human backstory to the franchise need to be covered, or at the very least inferred; such as why the Nostromo will be used to execute Special Order 937 (corporate conspiracy), and why Weyland-Yutani desire the Xenomorph so much?

#5 - The mystery of LV-426; the origins of the derelict Juggernaut, it's pilot and its cargo.

As chli's preference on the Xenomorph's origins highlights some other aspects need to be left ambiguous. Only the necessary, rudimentary questions should be answered, and such answers need not be so specific.

For example, by somehow revealing (flashback, hieroglyphs, etc.) that the Engineers took eggs from the derelict Juggernaught on LV-426 and weaponized the Xenomorph into the black pathogen you infer the derelicts pilot may not be an Engineer, and that its cargo of eggs predates whatever David thinks he created, it also infers that the Engineers technology is also not their own.

I love it.  I always thought the original alien had similar "tubes" to the inside guts of Ash and Bishop.  Makes perfect sense.  

I would also like to see an Ash model in a new movie to bring it full circle.