ALIEN: ALPHA

I have a problem imagining the Juggernaut carryng the same eggs that were found on LV 426. The scale is wrong.

I like the idea of the eggs being like cosmic barnacles of sorts though.

Maybe the ship just landed on top of the big nest as Giger originally imagined. Maybe LV 426 is the Xeno planet or moon that was asleep and awakened after the Juggernaut landed on its hive. Then it went dormant again until the Alien crew came along?

@ dk,

I once believed as you did until I read this... Are the eggs on LV-426 still there, page 3 (read posts by BigDave and daliens).

1) What Time-Line do you set the Movie in, also include any Flash Back Scene Time-Lines?

 

Early 1800s and Engineer historical timeline based on the timeline in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.

 

2) What Location do you set the Movie on/in, back to LV-426, a near by Moon/Planet (like was done with LV-223) or another Place in the Galaxy? maybe also HOW FAR away does this take Place?

 

LV-223, Earth, Planet 4, a juggernaut on the botton of the Pacific Ocean sounds really cool (it does sound like a Cameron movie).

 

3) Do you go for a Direct Prequel where you explain what happened to the Derelict, and then do you DO-SO in a Chronological Route, or Provide Solid Clues/Flash Backs? OR do you infer Clues that would drawn Fans to WHAT likely happened without having to Visit or Show the Derelict?

 

3 Prequel route with changes to what is seen in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant with the remaining prequel being the Alien: Covenant Origins novel made into film including the decades before the novel took place on Earth.

 

“Bodies were ripped apart, exploded, sundered, until dismembered skeletons began to pile up against the sides of buildings like white foam from a wave. A tsunami of blood ran down first one street, then another.”

 

Alien: Covenant Origins Prologue

 

The above description in the novel is somewhat similar to what MonsterZero describes above with the xenomorph infestation on a planet.  The book doesn’t specifically say “xenomorph” here but the end product (blood tsunami) sounds the same.

 

4) Do you explore the Space Jockey, and to what Extent and Detail, do you see any ALIVE Space Jockey's? How Deep do you explore their Agenda and History or Set up this for a Sequel?  

 

The Space Jockey is still left a mystery in the prequel films in order to remain that way in Alien.

 

Do you have them Communicate with Each Other and Provide Sub Titles?  Do they/can they Communicate with Humans and HOW? N/A

 

5) Do you offer a Direct Answer to WHERE/HOW those Eggs had Originated from?  And what the Connection the Space Jockey has with them?

 

MonsterZero’s idea of scraping eggs off the sides of juggernauts tends to reconcile with the Giger art where the eggs are generates in a wall…I love that idea as well as the Engineer transportation hub. 

The Space Jockey is still a preferred mystery but to see something hard to understand such as Space Jockey tech or Engineers attacked in some way like described above would be preferable. 

 

6) Do you introduce the Xenomorph, or do you introduce something a bit Different?

 

I’m going to agree with Leto on the need for more Neomorph time.

 

7) How do you introduce Human Characters because they surely would be NEEDED, and so its HOW do any Humans END-UP at a Location that would then allow us to Answer some of those Questions left from ALIEN?

 

Alien: Genesis

Mary Godwin, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Lord Byron and his personal physician, John William Polidori were trapped inside a villa due to weather. They spent their time crafting scary stories to tell one another in the Summer of 1816 and from these stories came Frankenstein and The Vampyre. 

The opening scene in the villa could be Mary Godwin (later Shelley) delivering Frankenstein to Percy, Lord Byron, and John with images of the Engineers flashing during her telling of the modern Prometheus tale. Percy Bysshe Shelley wrote Ozymandias in anticipation of the arrival of the Rameses II statue once the British Museum announced the acquisition and schedule for delivery in 1818.  

The opening of the prequel (Alien: Genesis) would close with visuals consisting of moving the statue from Egypt all the way to placing it at the British Museum and the unveiling to the public while hearing Ozymandias with a flashback to when the statue was new, magnificent…then fade to the relic in the museum the statue had become. 

This approach would bring in the references/concepts from literature early, later to be reinforced that were somewhat lost in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.  

 

 

Scenes Cut, Scenes Restored, Changes

 

Prometheus

The changes to the Prometheus content would be:

a)the Fifield and Milburn scenes alone in the pyramid and the Deacon born would be cut for time and reduced to short COMNET feeds uploaded from the helmets and the Lifeboat,

b) the ending from Prometheus would be the same ending except for a corporate rep shown reviewing the CLASSIFIED COMNET feeds from the Prometheus Mission and seeing what happened to Fiflield and Milburn.  

 

This approach would reconcile with how the company compartmentalized information seen in the novels and other films.  The Synthetic White Noise described in the novels fits well with what is seen in Prometheus, Alien, Aliens in regards to communication issues.

 

“Andrea Rollins didn’t care in the least about white noise or interference. She did, however, pay a great deal of attention to the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static.

 

Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down into its component parts. It wasn’t a technology currently available on the market. Hers was the only computer on the ship capable of breaking down the coded information.”

 

March 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.

 

Anything out of the ordinary  on LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4, and the security cameras on Fury 161 would certainly be tagged and scrambled only for Weyland-Yutani select computers to decode such as seen with Andrea Rollins.  She ran a goon-squad on LV-178 and provided great healthcare to them if they came back up to the ship wearing a facehugger. 

Showing this form of encryption, management with COMNET is a way to showcase Weyland-Yutani Corporation and it’s competitors' technology as well.

 

 

Alien: Covenant

The following changes would be made to Alien: Covenant:

a) The Crossing would be edited and inserted as flash backs where David and Walter speak outside looking over the Planet 4 city complete with the attack shown while David is quoting Ozymandias,

b) Walter would be notified of the destructive event while in the garden and not the colonists chamber,

c) the Synthetic/Construct kiss would be cut,

d) the juggernauts scene cut from Alien: Covenant where Sergeant Lope shoots a flair below would be restored, and

e) the Neomorph would kill Hallett and not a throat explosion.  No one bends down to huff extrasolar spores, insulting.

Certainly DK

This could be considered as merely a OVERSIGHT...

Indeed the PLOT (Alien) came about from Starbeast where we had a Separate Temple/Pyramid with the Eggs and when HR Giger came aboard and the Draft Changed, it was still Planned to have a Separate Egg Chamber, in which HR Giger even did some Concept for the Separate Egg Silo.

The SETS where Built.. and so they would RE-USE the Same Set but make Few Changes for the Pilot Chamber and Egg Storage Chamber.  The idea would have been to have a External Shot of a Separate Silo/Mound and where the Human Crew would be seen walking to this and Scaling it..  But Time Restraints and Budget Restrictions meant that had to be CANED and so before Shooting the Plot got Changed a little to incorporate the Cargo Hold as UNDER the Pilot Room.

And so the Status Quo then was the Egg Chamber was Part of the Derelict.

HOWEVER... anyone who sees the Movie Alone, would maybe not always 100% Conclude the Chamber was inside the Ship for a Number of Reasons.  And SCALE is one such Reason.

And so in Context to the OT.... as in if we could Re-do the Prequel Prometheus or Replace it.....

Then INDEED you could explore that the Ship is sitting ON-TOP of a Underground Egg Chamber.

The only Problem with doing this would be that any kind of Prequel that would give Answers, or a Movie set AFTER say Alien or Aliens that would go back and give Answers....  would be a Movie that would Kind-of just be doing the same as what happened in ALIEN.

Unless the Human Crew in said Movie would Discover another ENTRANCE to the Egg Chamber and maybe a Underground System... with Answers...

But this as well as having LV-426 have Multiple such Underground System of Tunnels and Chambers, would get us to WONDER... as to WHY the Company Pursue the Xenomorph via Ripley from Alien 3 on-wards.

Having their be just ONE such Cargo Compartment that is Located on the Derelict which is Destroyed after Hadleys Hope's Destruction would take care of such a Plot Hole/Conflict.

I agree with RS (back prior to 2014) in that the Derelict had left from some place else and ENDED UP on LV-426 via a Crash Landing as a Good Explanation.  Then you could explore from WHERE the Derelict had left for a Prequel... which is what Prometheus had loosely indicated.

The Discrepancy of the Size of the Cargo Hold, could just be accepted as a Oversight... but as i said with the OT as far as its Purpose.... then to go back and RE-DO a Prequel then YEAH you could indicate the Cargo Hold is Separate to the Ship... surely.

Some Interesting Ideas and Changes there Ingeniero

The Ozymandias from Alien Covenant i interpret in relation to the Prologue, where Weyland has amassed all these Arts and Creations (inc the Piano) with the Principle being that all these MATTER NOT for when the Time of Death comes... you cant take them with you and if there is NOTHING then they can NO longer be Remembered or Appreciated by their Dead Owner.

Its about Immortality in that there are many ways you can be Immortalized,  that is in the Memory of your Generations/Off-Spring, by the Deeds or Creations you have done which inc Art/Music, by what Famous Deeds you have done... and by having Monuments and Statues Erected in your Memory.

And so in Context the Ozymandias is to indicate that even such Monuments will in TIME Fade Away and be Lost in the Sands... and so its to show that EVERY Civilization will come to a END and eventually NOTHING remains.

For Example... this could be all that Remains of New York (well similar or even LESS) in say 25'000-40'000 Years Time especially of the Earth Dies... loses its Atmosphere and becomes a Mars!

So thats kind of what i Interpret the Ozymandias quote in relation to Alien Covenant.... with the Flash Back its like David referencing that after his Actions... that all that Remains of the Engineers is their City and Monuments but that Eventually they will Disappear!

I would say that in Millions of Years Time the Earth could look more like MARS with some Remains of our Civilization....  But more so say if we was to go back say 2000-3000 years ago and the Earth suffered a Disaster that RID the Atmosphere and then those Civilizations would be LOST and only Great Monuments would remain like say the Giza Pyramids... the rest Burred by Sands!

So to PUT that in Context with the OT...  then maybe it was best to Explore the Space Jockey Race as just that.... a LONG LONG GONE.. Civilization

With only some Remains of Ancient Structures that are LONG abandoned... NO Living Space Jockey, but we get some Murals and maybe Activate a Record System (like in Prometheus) that can give some Clues and Indications of their Society but maybe keep it relevant to the Eggs.

That way as i said in another reply, you would NOT have to be Bogged Down with Details about Gods and Stuff or to Explore and show any Living Space Jockey and WHAT they was all about...

Maybe you could uncover 1-2 Alive ones in some kind of Cryo-sleep. But they Ultimately will be KILLED and that would be the END of them...... well as far as LOCALLY in the Galaxy (within say 10'000+ LY)

But to be FAIR...

Prometheus for me was FINE... needed some Changes and i did work on a Re-Edit (which i lost) the Engineers Scale was OFF...  they was intended to be 15ft then 10ft but oh well....

There are some Aesthetic Differences too... Ship/Pilot.

What i got from Prometheus was the TALE of Creation, Sub-Creation, then HOW-MUCH knowledge and Free-Will you give your Creation, that causes them to REBEL.... and also allowing your Creations to Create/Pro-Create would be a HUBRIS.

So when talking before Alien Covenant... things were a Mystery and could have been Explored Different.

David was Created by Weyland to Serve Mankind, to replace us for a number of Tasks/Chores.... we could have the Revelation that Mankind was created for a Similar Reason by the Engineers.

We could then have it the Engineers were created by their Creators for a similar Reason too...

So we have a Similar Path repeated over and over..

Then we could go back FURTHER... to the Higher Layer of that Cake.... before the Engineers, maybe they are like Engineers.. Taller.. and then we could Explore above these Taller Beings and THIS is when things get ANCIENT like Really Ancient and TOTALLY ALIEN...

Thats HOW i was looking to explore it with my Prometheus sequel/prequel ideas...

If  i could EXPAND on my Last Topic....

Going back 10+ Years ago then having a Announcement of a ALIEN Movie that was indicated and expected to provide some Answers to the Mystery in ALIEN... of which the Main Questions were

*WHAT was that Ship doing with those EGGS?

*WHERE did those EGGS come from?

*WHERE was the Derelict going and WHERE did it come from?

We can expand on that by exploring the Xenomorph Egg Origins..

The Secondary Mystery would be WHO is the Space Jockey, his Species, their Agenda/Purpose and WHY would they be carrying such a Horrific Organism.

By the Time we got to Prometheus, it NEVER gave any Clear Answers to all of those, Certainly not to the Level of Detail Expected...  

Fans also had become Disappointed in the Revelation that the Space Jockey was indicated as a 8ft Race of Bald Humans who had been our Creators/Gods.....   Many Expected some kind of more Alien/Lovecraft Plot and Aesthetic that close matched the Scene from ALIEN.

Some may have expected Xenomorph's but i dont think this was 100% a Problem it was more so they was NEVER replaced by anything similar....  Zombie Fifield, Face Rape Space Cobra certainly is not as Adequate as something that had more Connection to the Xenomorph, main Problem being the Engineer and Fifield completed most of the Kill Count... if this was Split between having some Neomorph like Organism then that would have been better.

The MONEY-SHOT being Dr Shaws Fetus Face Hugger (Trilobite) and its Infecting the Engineer that leads to the Chest Buster (Deacon) but not seeing it do anything... if we had a similar Organism earlier on Kill 2-3 people i think that would have Pleased Fans

So i think those things had NOT been as ALIEN as Fans Expected... but FOX felt all Fans wanted/needed was to get the Xenomorph Origins and see them back and similar... and Hence Alien Covenant but the Plot really just made the Xenomorph something FAR less ALIEN now.

And downgraded the Space Jockey (Engineers) as being insignificant and well more Weaker/Human.

I think the Problem was not really Prometheus but the Sequel.... a Different Sequel could have indicated something more ALIEN as far as the Hierarchy and Agenda above the Engineers.

But in Context to the OT....

If we was to Re-do a Prequel... i think some of Prometheus could still FIT-WELL but we need to tease and then explore in a Further Sequel something MORE ALIEN.

By that even if they RE-MADE the Prequels... i would have the Space Jockey as some Space Suit with a somewhat Human Bald Occupants and make them 10ft Tall.

But then you have something that is Above Them... something more ALIEN...

For Many Years... and i mean even WAY before the Prequels the IDEA was that the EGGS are a Bio-Weapon Created (or obtained) by the Space Jockey Race... for some Unknown Reason/Conflict.

Gigers Mural and Concepts seem to Draw me to another Conclusion....  this may appear to be say 30% we are looking at the Space Jockey Created a Ship that Produces a Bio-Weapon (Eggs) that they Self Sacrifice themselves to Procreate.... but then 70% of me is Drawn to the Same but that the Space Jockey Race are NOT the Creator of any of this, but are just some Race who are USED for this Purpose..

What do they Gain from this? and WHO is at the Top of the Chain....   THIS is where we should have gone and it could have been VERY ALIEN and Lovecraftian!

Regarding the Derelict/Cargo i made this rough to Scale of the Pilot Chamber, Cargo Hold in Relation to Crew Height.

This is to SHOW the Minimum Size Required... i actually think the Derelict would need to STILL be a Little Larger, to the TUNE of Double the Height and Diameter and maybe Two-Three Times Width to accommodate the Cargo Hold and Full Pilot Chamber

The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes?  

Home run.  It is a perfect example of the Ozymandias concept with Earth's magnificent city of New York turns into driftwood buried by sand.  

As far as the topic in regards to changes made to the prequel layout, delivery....I tried to bring in the concept in early in the Alien: Genesis (Prometheus title replaced) to be reinforced later in Alien: Covenant.  

There are certainly better parts of Frankenstein to use in the narration.  I also thought it might be a better way to introduce Ozymandias' meaning to a larger audience opposed to David and Walter muttering the poem to each other in the dark and many asking "Who's Byron?...must be talking about Mary Shelley."

In the novel, David's madness is more clear.  If the audience was more familiar with Percy Bysshe Shelley's Ozymandias then the point that David got this wrong would me made with more clarity.  David barked out "Byron" when questioned by Walter on who wrote Ozymandias and this scene might have been better with the changes to the prequel opening.

The David Planet 4 images in the opening were not only put there, of course, to tie into the Ozymandias concept (of great, then not) but also to add a little mystery of seeing this early and not knowing the context until the next film.

Yes, I just like to write Ozymandias over and over.  

Ozymandias.  

 

"The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes? "

Yes it was.. i used to to show that After a Disaster that Wipes out LIFE on Earth, especially if we lost our Ozone/Atmosphere and the Earth became like Mars, then after 10's of Thousands of Years only a Few Larger Monuments would be seen... the Smaller could be Buried under Sand etc.

The Ozymandias fits as this really about how No Matter How Great a Person/Civilization or their Accomplishments are, and what Records/Memories are left of them and Monuments Erected its to show that eventually all these would become LOST or become Ruin....  as NOTHING will LAST Forever..

I think David Re-sites those Words when he remembers back to the Bombardment, because his Coming and Actions are WHAT will spell the END of that Great Engineer Civilization where all that remains would be their Monuments and Buildings but ONCE the Engineers are GONE... then Eventually in TIME these will become Ruin.  It also in Part Applies because this is the Dawn of David's Kingdom on that World... where he would NOW set out to Create his own WORKS.

Back to the Derelict Diagram... and in Context to the OT, well Monster Zero

It was a rough Calculation of HOW BIG the Shot of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold are in Relation to the Actual Ship Dimensions.... ASSUMING the Bulkhead/Space between the Roof of the Ship and Ceiling of the Pilot Chamber, and the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Pilot Chamber and Ceiling of the Cargo Hold and Finally the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Cargo Hold and Bottom of the Ship are all about 1M in Thickness.  It then ASSUMES the Shot of the Pilot Chamber we only see about 75% of its Height, and the Egg Chamber about 90% of its Height.

If so this would mean that the DERELICT would have to be about 1.75X Taller to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

If these Bulkhead/Spaces between Floors/Bulkhead were 3M and the Pilot Chamber is shown as only 50-60% of its Actual Height, then the DERELICT would have to be at least TWICE as Tall to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

So in Context to Monster Zero... it shows that INDEED the Cargo Hold and Pilot Chamber as far as being ON-TOP of each other would NOT FIT inside the Derelict.

That could mean as far as the OT as in to Re-Explore the Derelict or Re-do the Prequels... that this Inconsistency could be COVERED by having the Cargo Hold as Separate!

But as far as Ridley Scott and the Prequels and even ALIEN then this is just a OVERSIGHT.. and the idea/intentions are the CARGO HOLD is part of the SHIP.

I had mentioned a Few Times Before what i think was the BEST SOLUTION to this Error... one that makes the MOST SENSE to me as FAR as a Ship that is intended to Transport Deadly Bio-Weapon Eggs.

I will explain this again NEXT ;)

Right... i never intended this to be a Derelict/Cargo Hold Debate, but i can expand on this and FIT it to the OT.

My previous Post and another prior where i Calculate the Derelict would have to be between 1.75-2.0 X Height (2.0-2.5 X Width) to FIT the Pilot Chamber and Cargo Hold.....   So it 100% would NOT FIT as shown.

This leaves us with 4 OPTIONS..

1) Purely a Oversight, that we have to Accept, maybe we just have to Accept the External Shot where the Crew Enter the Derelict.. is NOT to the Correct Scale and the Ship Externally is Larger.

2) The Space Jockey Race have a Technology like Dr Who with the TARDIS where the Internal Dimensions are Larger than the External... or that when anything Enters the Ship they are SHRUNK....

3) Separate Underground Cargo Hold that the Ship would DOCK with.  The SHIP however looks like it is Perched in a Fashion that looks ODD to be Docked.. 

This could be explained as the Ship had Attempted to Disconnect and so became either somewhat LOOSE but could not TAKE OFF (Pilot Chest Busted) or it had started to TAKE OFF but then Crashed Right back on top of the Cargo Hold (Pilot Chest Busted)

A Prequel Re-boot or Visit to the Derelict could indicate as such as OPTION 3...

However.... what i had mentioned a FEW times in the past is...

4) Separate Detachable Cargo Hold..... bare with me on this.. so OK do we accept the Cargo Hold was designed to Contain/Transport the Eggs? 

i) If thats so then in Context to it being PART of the Ship, then HOW do they Deploy the Bio-Weapon?  Drop the Eggs from ABOVE?  Can the Eggs Survive the Impact? 

Does the Ship LAND on the Surface and then HOW do the Eggs Get Deployed?  Seems Rather Risky unless there is some Automated Process.... 

Is this a Suicide Mission, the Ship Lands and its Intention is to Remain until all the Eggs have Infected the World.. (Where does the Space Jockey Stay?).

ii) If we have a Separate Underground Egg Cargo Hold then what was the Purpose of the Derelict?  Had it been Carrying something that is Transported from somewhere on the Ship to the Underground Cargo Hold?  Or was it attempting to Collect some Eggs and store them in some place on the Derelict?

Again this is Risky... where does the Ship Store the Eggs it obtains from the Cargo Hold?  In some other Areas of the Derelict like the ARM Sections?  But then HOW are they then Deployed?

BOTH those Issues and the SIZE would not matter in the Case of a Separate Detachable Cargo Hold!

I had used these Images i did before when discussing this..

Here i have drawn a Diagram to show what i mean.

So the Cargo Hold is Separate and Attaches to the Underside of the Derelict... where it can be Released/Detached and Dropped to a Worlds Surface (Maybe it has a Separate Propulsion/Landing System).

Once Deployed Parts of the Cargo Section will OPEN and would leave the Eggs Open (somewhat) and the Blue Myst is Disabled.. (Maybe there is another System that would cause the Eggs to OPEN and Unleash the Face Huggers?).

So Imagine Something like this...

ONCE all the Eggs have been Emptied.... a Beacon could GO OFF and the Doors Shut Back up and then the Derelict can come back and Attach to the EMPTY/SAFE Cargo Hold and then Take it back to WHERE the Eggs are Stored for Re-Filling.

I think this takes CARE of the Size Discrepancy and also is a Pretty Robust way to Deploy the Bio-Weapon and Re-Use the Separate Cargo Compartment, and it also means the Derelict ships can Perform other Tasks than just be Egg Carrying Cargo Ships.