The Space Jockey

I like the humanoid Engineers (both from Prometheus). They look like ideal humans. Or future humans - Engineers are different from humans in the same way that humans are different from apes.

But yes - the main point is the height. Engineers should be higher. I understand that Ridley wanted to make Engineers look like humans for a story point. But I don't see any "story" reasons why they should be roughly equal to the size of us. Most likely this is a technical aspect, but not the story.

Maybe Ridley did not want to mess with the angles of filming. Or didn’t want to use CG (I respect that). Or in the script already was a moment in which the Engineer went on the human ship. Therefore, for the sake of this scene, he had to adjust the height.

Back to the topic. About Space Jockey.

I want to see them, as strange biomechanical pilots, who grow out of the chair, but I feel that showing these creatures will look like a kind of "backtracking". A recognition that they screwed up.

It seems like - "Well, we have Engineers who look like humans, but their spacesuits look like Space Jockey. And now we are introducing the Space Jockey, who look like Engineer's spacesuit, which look like Space Jokey... Well, a true Space Jockey from Alien. It's not the suite."

I feel that this will be an even bigger confusing mess. Especially if Ridley says: "Ho ho ho! I want to leave some mystery and will not explain anything to you."

P.S. Nice picture with marked details of Space Jockey.

@BigDave I still believe that the Space Jockey in the end would have been David, sorry. That makes thematic sense even if you don't like the idea.

Have you seen Doom Eternal? In it that they introduced the Maykrs and they have a SJ flavor to them (biomechanical and the rest). And the new Icon of Sin... 

@BigDave, I’m not sure why you say on close inspection the rib cage doesn’t look like a skeleton. When Dallas peers over the SJ body and says the bones are bent outward, it sure looks like a ruptured skeleton to me. The broken jagged bone ends look like something you’d find in a butcher’s shop. I mean, tell me these aren't bones!

@Leto

Certainly the Intentions was to give us 12-15ft Engineers, but RS at Production had decided to Downgrade this and attempt to use Camera Angles to Allude to a 8ft Engineer, the Actual Cryo-Pods would only Accommodate up to a 8ft Tall being.  I think if we had a Continuation then we would have to Accept our Engineers as being a Average of 7.5ft Tall as a Race when not in the Space Suit.   But as NOT every Human is about 5ft10, then there could be 9-10ft Engineers as the Extreme of their Species, which would appear Taller when Space Suited and the Final Piece of the Puzzle is (as Dallas said) the Pilot could have Grown out of the Chair.

"strange biomechanical pilots"

I think Certainly that could be a Option, the more i had studied the Space Jockey over the Years (prior to Prometheus) it seemed to be more of some Space Suit or a Truly Bio-mechanical Being like the Xenomorphs are for example.

The Engineers Certainly could be looked at as being a Evolved Humanoid Species, who knows what Mankind could look like in say 10'000 Years.... but maybe we would be more like David by then ;)

I think while there are some Differences between the Space Jockey/Derelict and the Engineers/Juggernaught although the Intention seems they are the SAME... any slight Inconsistencies allows for Deniability by the Fans, and allows for things to be Changed.

If what we got was the SHIPS looked Aesthetically more Closer, and the SUITS likewise and we saw the Engineers as 10-12ft on our Screens and the Dead Engineer Suits became a Bone-Like Color or getting there..... then there would be more Concrete Proof and us having to Accept that they are the Space Jockey.

@Ignorantguy

David behind the Space Jockey is maybe a likely Scenario, Certainly as far as if he could either Transfer his Soul to a NEW Body/Being or he had Created the Space Jockey, i would think that these are a Possible Path that RS would have taken us.   As far as it just being Regular David inside the Space Suit then again this CANT be ruled out.

We could expect that it would be a Engineer, we could HOPE that its either a Newly Introduced Species or Taller Engineer/Humanoids, i think its maybe Clutching at Straws to be the Skeleton of some Species.

But if we got a Continuation it seems the Path to ALIEN is a Chronological One and as the Themes Explored are about Sub-Creation and Evolution and also RS seems interested in A.I then i do think that we could have ENDED up being shown that the Space Jockey as a Creation/Organism is something that has NOT yet been Created as of Alien Covenant.

Not what i would have liked, but i am one who can take that Bitter Pill and Swallow it, hopefully there be a Spoon Full of Sugar to help that Medicine go down ;)

@Ignorantguy

I have not played the New Doom Games, i dont own a Latest Games Console, and my PC is about 10 Years or so OLD... i was a BIG Fan of the Original Doom Series though ;)

Looking Quickly into the Maykrs then i can see a bit of a Connection as far as to Angels etc.... they look at Quick Glimpse like say what Robocop 2014 was

As far as taking some Parts of a Organism but have the Rest of their Body being Mechanical/Synthetic...  again such a Future could await Humans in Thousands of Years Time as a way to try and Gain more Life!  But thats a different Subject all together.

I think that the HR Giger Aesthetic of Bio-Mechanical is what made ALIEN what it was, and i think we can only Hope the Space Jockey is such a Bio-Mechanical Entity but maybe we shall never find out.

@Hox

To be fair i think some Parts of the Ribs do look like Skeletal, but on Closer Inspection they look ODD for Ribs.

I have used the Image above to Highlight what i mean, when i refer back to the Concept Work and look at these Details it seems that what we have is either a Space Suit or a Totally Alien Bio-mechanical being like the Xenomorph.

I understand for some its a Disappointment to try and Reveal this as a Space Suit, and Certainly to have Humanoid Occupants.   I mean NO kind of Disrespect to whatever anyone else wishes to believe or hopes for the Truth to be.    We have covered the Space Jockey a bit as far as the Skeleton Debate, and while Dallas seems to indicate it is, we have to Remember that he is NO expert (but the Dialog was added for a reason).

The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

Some still would like to see it as a Skeleton of some being and while it may not look like a Traditional Skeleton, we are talking a ALIEN Species and so we CANT assume their Skeletal Structure would be the Same as Organism on Earth.

So a Skeleton is something that while Unlikely, its something that CANT be 100% Ruled Out as we have YET to reach any Conclusion.

Above are TWO of the Space Jockey in the Flesh interpretations from the Older Comics, there was a Third but that was Comical.   So by all means WHY NOT as far as a Skeleton.

But as the ALIEN Franchise was Very ALIEN and there appeared to be a Connection between the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Xenomorph, then WHY cant the Pilot be Bio-Mechanical?

I guess the only Problem then would be to ASK how can a Bio-Mechanical being become Chest Busted?

@BigDave,

I think that the HR Giger Aesthetic of Bio-Mechanical is what made ALIEN what it was, and i think we can only Hope the Space Jockey is such a Bio-Mechanical Entity but maybe we shall never find out. The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

My own feelings are that embracing an Engineer in a chair does a disservice to Giger. Many of his paintings depict “creatures” that are bonded with their environment. The Giger print hanging on my wall, for example, shows a woman (of sorts) mechanically bonded to scuba gear, her mouth invaded by an oxygen tube. Some of her constraints blend into her body.

To a degree, this is successfully observed in the suits worn by the Engineers themselves: they blend seamlessly into the Engineer’s skin. I’m fine with that - very Giger-esque. But where I have total disappointment is the notion that the original SJ was just an Engineer (or similar) that just hopped into the chair. Even my cat can tell that the SJ meshes into the chair, bonded to it. Constrained. Trapped. Consumed. An integral part of the terrifying and alien whole.

Some still would like to see it as a Skeleton of some being and while it may not look like a Traditional Skeleton, we are talking a ALIEN Species and so we CANT assume their Skeletal Structure would be the Same as Organism on Earth.

Dead right. Our skeletons help us to move around. The SJ may or may not have had the ability to move around, but he ends up being part of a machine. He doesn’t need to run around, and he’s just fused with it. However it happened, and whatever its ultimate purpose, it’s alien and weird so we don’t need to worry too much about the details.

But as the ALIEN Franchise was Very ALIEN and there appeared to be a Connection between the Bio-Mechanical Ship and the Xenomorph, then WHY cant the Pilot be Bio-Mechanical?

Why not indeed.

I guess the only Problem then would be to ASK how can a Bio-Mechanical being become Chest Busted?

That’s a good question because you first have to know what an alien biomechanical being actually is. Let’s say, for example, that the ship itself was constructed (or grown) organically. Yay, that’s what super-advanced aliens can do. Did the chair and SJ grow together? Was the SJ grown separately and ultimately fused with chair? Can he ever leave? Is he happy with his life? Is he “fed” by the ship in a similar same way that a facehugger feeds its victim? Whatever, its organic history could likely be its Achilles Heel, and I imagine it could be chest bursted quite easily. Adding a bit of horror, let’s just suggest for a moment that a regular facehugger could penetrate a host by sucking out an eyeball and inserting its proboscis there. That would be a bit of fun, wouldn’t it. Not exactly Disney material, though!

The problem then is that it’s strongly implied in Prometheus that the SJ was something that just hopped in to do the piloting. As you know, I’m not happy with that idea for ideological reasons. One way out of that conundrum would be for the Engineers to be revealed as a race that revere a pre-existing civilisation/technology, and they emulate their forms. Or, here’s another scenario...

The ship slowly formed, and attained a size where it could detach itself from its umbilicus. The pilot chair grew and, with it, the pilot bud grew in size. Gradually becoming aware of its identity, environment and purpose, it suddenly sensed pain as it detected an invading creature hacking at its limbs. Screaming in terror, the young pilot could do nothing as it was excised from its mother. It twitched and withered on the cold platform as a bipedal form took its place. With no concern and utter alacrity, the Engineer powered up the navigation...

That has been a mystery for so long so no matter what you do you will disappoint some people. How ever, something could be to have something that is above the Engineer sin the hierarchy to have as the Space Jockey, I am thinking about how disappointing the Planet 4 ones were and even if I found the one in Prometheus to be interesting what we saw in Alien Covenant made me wish that the SJ would be someone higher up in the hierarchy.

Maybe something more Alien than an Engineer could work. I am thinking about the Orchs in Lord of the Rings trilogy, not to say that you need to copy that but they look a bit human still different. The worst case scenario is to have David as the Space Jockey, or a human so if that is their plan then they should not make another prequel at all because the situation is bad enough as it is.

When we look at the SJ and compare it to the Engineers I think that there is a connection there. I think that having something above the Engineers could be a way to go if they will do another movie at all. Sorry but I do not think that that David should have anything to do with it at all, I am tired of that. You have had two movies where David has a big role and at least the second did not do too well so it would be foolish to have another movie that is about him, I am not interested in that but they could expand on the Engineers.

@hox

Certainly i think when we look back to when we First Saw the Space Jockey (for those who see ALIEN before the Prequels) it was Bizarre, so thinking that this PILOT was a Slave to the Ship, that he is Permanently a Prisoner of the Ship is something that some of Wonder before, and i think this is what James Cameron felt about the Space Jockey.

Trying to Imagine that this Pilot was Part of the Ship, that he was Enslaved or has some kind of Symbiotic Relationship is something that more Bizarre than a Bi-Pedal Organism/Entity that can come and go from the Chair at Will.

The Space Jockey had gone through some Evolution from Inception, starting off as being the Skeletal Remains of a Organism that is NOT very Human looking, who just Happened to Fall Victim to the ALIEN just as the Human Crew that Many Many years latter suffered the Same Fate.

This Dead Pilot having a Few Designs that were Nothing like a Human, Until RS had came across HR Gigers work and Necronom V

Ridley Scott liked the look of the Being that was like Riding on the Back of the Feminine Humanoid Figure (which inspired the Xenomorph in part).

The thing that RS did like was that it seemed this Being was Fused with what he saw as a Chair and he was SOLD on this idea for the Pilot and his Pilot Chair.  And so YES the idea of the Space Jockey being something that is FUSED to the Chair for Eternity is something that Originally seemed to be what they was going for.

This Necronom V was used as the idea for the Alien Pilot Species and it was drawn in some Ridleygrams.... but then they got HR Giger to come up with a Concept that was based on that and this is when we got the Space Jockey that we ENDED UP with.

HR Giger also doing some Concepts such as Face Huggers, and a Mural and these seem to depict Space Suits that had a somewhat Familiar Look to the Space Jockey, the Occupants were BALD Humanoids.. so this was something that HR Giger had drawn out, but from his Concepts you cant HELP but think these depicted some Species that were Enslaved to whoever had Created the Ship/Xenomorph.

I think before we got to Alien Covenant, then the Space Jockey was Ancient and so it could have been Explored as another Species, a Bio-mechanically Entity and indeed Certainly something that has become and has been at ONE with the Ship.... where we could then Speculate the Engineers had merely Reverse Engineered the Technology.

Alien Covenant makes it more difficult because it appears we must Accept (but its Subject to Change) that there is NO crashed Derelict or its Pilot as of the Time-Line that Alien Covenant had taken place...

This does not mean the Derelict cant be Introduced as a Incoming Ship, or that its Occupant is David, a Human or any kind of Engineer we have so far seen.

It could be a Space Suit with a not-so Human looking Occupant or a Totally Bio-Mechanical Construct, but i would assume they would be revealed to be Bi-Pedal and can Enter and Leave the Pilot Chair but they become as ONE while they are Connected.

@Thoughts_Dreams

Certainly the Occupant does-not have to be Human looking, i made this Image for a Topic on here Quite some time ago.

The Possibilities are kind of Endless to what a Alien Organism inside of a Space Suit could look like, i would like to think it best to USE something that we can make some Connection to the Xenomorph and Ancestry though, or Certainly some Unused Concepts from the Franchise or HR Gigers Work.

The Image i Posted in the OT was one of the Concepts for Fifield that has a similar Body Proportions to a Space Jockey (or so it appeared)  and aside from the Read or the Head which is a Bit Pointed, i think it would PASS as the Space Jockey, in the Image i also had the Cryo-Sleep Engineer, to show the Snorkel could be some Contraption that would Attach and FUSE with the Wearer and the Suit could be just as the Engineers  Cry-Sleep/Pressure Suits.

Like HR Gigers Necronom 7

We see some kind of Helmet/Mask that does-not Enclose the Entire Head, with Typical HR Giger style this Mask looks like its Attached/Fused with the Wearer.

So what i am saying is as with the OT is that maybe the Space Jockey Head is the Skeletal Remains of some Organism with a Elongated Head but the Snorkel is some Bio-Mechanical Apparatus that attaches to the Organisms Face and this Connects to the Suit that then Connects to the Chair.

The Occupant could be something thats NOT really the same as a Engineer or Human.

 @BigDave: OMG, Ice Warrior and Otto Dix Invalid rolled into one;)

When looking at what the Space Jockey would be if it was a Skeleton, well a Mummy of a Organism, then the Concepts (by Daryl Joyce) above as in 1/2 are Pretty Accurate and i would say that IF we looked at the Snorkel as being a Apparatus and so if we removed this from those Concepts then i think what those Designs by Daryl Joyce show is something that i could imagine a Space Jockey to look like if we assume the Head was a SKULL and not Helmet.

If we IGNORE the Snorkel/Hose then they do look a bit like some of the Fifield Concepts.  Particularly if we COMBINE the 5+6 Concepts then we get close, add some Trunk/Snorkel to a Combination of those TWO and i think you would NOT be too FAR off what Daryl Joyce had done.

So i like his Concepts/Fan Art, i think they could work if this kind of Design lacked the TRUNK and it was inside a Space Suit with a Mask/Trunk that attached the Suit to the Face of this Organism. Especially Image 1

The purpose of this Topic is to Voice how you feel about the Space Jockey and what kind of Hopes that people have for HOW they would like it to be Revealed.

Personally, I liked the idea of it being a fossilized creature that was also part of the chair. I think Dallas thought it was a fossil and that's where my imagination went. 

I would have just liked to see it as a fleshed out version of what Dallas found- basically like BD's pics with a trunk of some kind. 

No matter what anyone thinks, it also leads to the inevitable mystery of the chest burster, its burning into the floor etc...

When I first watched Alien I got the notion that the Space Jockey was a species itself but after watching Prometheus I really didn't have a problem with it just being a space suit for the pilot.

For me the idea that its some sort of biomechanical suit that you get into to pilot a ship is just as interesting as it being a completely different alien race from the Engineers. I really don't mind it at all.

It could just be that the Derelict in Alien belonged to a different sect or race of engineers (think Romulan and Vulcan) who like engineering themselves further than what they are.

Then again, its quite possible that the Space Jockey in Alien could be David who liked messing about with the black goo and did something to himself and then build a ship that was big enough for himself.

When i First Saw the Space Jockey a few times it was LONG AGO in a Time prior to DVD and the Internet and indeed at this Time it came across like a Skeleton, but i was Young and we never had the Benefit of Larger/Clearer TV's.

It was only in the 90's that i came across a Magazine from a Friend with Close Ups and i am sure RS had said it was a Space Suit in the Magazine, when i looked at the Space Jockey Arms and Head (apart from the Face) it did look ODD for a Skeleton, this Magazine also had the HR Giger Concept which when i looked at that then it did-not look a Skeleton to me.

Once the DVD came out and i had Watched it on DVD about Year 2000, then i could PAUSE it and then the only Part that looked like a Skeleton to me was the Face, and Ribs to a Degree.   But at this time what i assumed the Space Jockey was is a BIO-MECHANICAL being like the Xenomorph was, like SIL from Species was etc.  So to me the Rib-cage was more like the Xenomorphs in that what we had was more of a Exo-Skeleton.

It was a FEW years latter via the Internet i came across and could STUDY in depth more work by HR Giger which included his Face Hugger Concepts and the Mural for ALIEN and then indeed i could see it could be a Space Suit but i felt it was VERY ODD that the Occupants were Humanoid.

So for me then YES i think the BEST way to Reveal it would be either some SPACE SUIT where the Occupant is NOT so Human, or even as i showed in my Posts where the SUIT has no HELMET but the Skull of a ALIEN being with some Breathing/Snorkel thats attached to the Face.

Or that it is some Bio-Mechanical Entity like the Xenomorph is and various HR Giger Work.

I think we may have to accept its a Engineer though, and i dont think so much Complaints would be made if the Engineers where 10-12ft Tall on Screen and the SUIT looked more like this ONE.

Maybe trying to make it look a bit more like HR Gigers Concept from the BANNER and Proportions as below.

This is a Interesting take by Artist Christian Urdapilleta

This is also Interesting by Mark Williams as far as Imagine that with a Snorkel/Mask, but its a little to GREY ALIEN looking though.  I think Different Eyes and Position then something like that could maybe Work?

I think the BEST revelation would have been a Bio-Mechanical Entity/Being like in that Last Image, which is what our Xenomorph is.

I think it's clear it is an that the SJ was/is an engineer.  The orginal Prometheus story had an engineer.  Before Damon got a hold of it.

Absolutely Maxeno (Welcome Aboard)

This appeared to be the Intention as of 2010, but as i have discussed before a number of Times in the Past, then Notion of Human looking beings in a Space Suit is maybe NOT something just Pulled Out of the air by Jon Spaights.

As this seemed to  be the Indication in HR Gigers Concepts from 1977-1978.

I know such Revelations had not settled with some Fans, which is why in this Topic i offer them a chance to Voice how they Feel but mainly to look at WHAT kind of Alternative they would like to see.

NOT that its likely they would get what they want though ;)

I think its open for them to Introduce something else... Be that...

*Another Humanoid like the Engineers/Humans but Taller.

*A Bi-pedal Humanoid that is FAR from Human Looking.

*A Bio-Mechanical Being/Entity.

But certainly prior to Alien Covenant the Intention was to show that the Space Jockey was a Engineer or Related.  With the release of Alien Covenant then the Space Jockey as a Engineer is something that could CHANGE.

I suspect that IF that Changes However, then it would likely be some other Species that David Creates... or David in some Engineered New Body he has Created. Thats the suspicion i have if things had Continued... i think that it would have been like 40% Chance of something like that, with a 40% it would be a Engineer leaving 20% Chance of it being some other Race Connected to the Engineers.

Unfortunately unless its Created by David, then i cant see the Space Jockey being revealed as something that is either FAR from Human or a Bio-Mechanical being.

With Disney in Charge, i think they may even SKIP the Space Jockey, and move away from the Prequels... or in TIME they may give something that maybe they FEEL the Fans would want.

 I have the feeling that Space Jockey is a different genre than engineers. the engineers only imitate him with their suits. you can see in Prometheus that the helmet is of biological origin because of the sagittal suture and inside you can see blood vessels. and space jockey has a mouthpiece and a tongue. for breathing on a tube connected to the chest and bones, they are withered. his arms are very long and you can see that he has no legs but the abdomen connected to the armchair. a very old being who would have to live forever had to be connected to a chair like a respirator. the creature must have been lying there dead for thousands or millions of years. only the ship and armchair are the same as those of the engineers but RS said they didn't have such a tall actor to play a 5 meter giant. and the explanation that this is a suit because it was impossible to play such a huge humanoid and inventing engineers is very cheap and fast. they are recording movies with dinosaurs and Godzilla and Space Jockey couldn't. maybe it's really a different species, God, an ancestor of engineers.

Good Points which have been Raised before ;)

ALIEN had left some Ambiguity with our Space Jockey as far as its LEGS.. or lack of.  And indeed the Head does look more like a SKULL with a Mummified Tongue and Teeth compared to the Engineer Suits.

But the rest of the Space Jockey does-not look so Skeletal.

The Intention was 15ft Engineers, but RS did-not want to use Effects etc... The Aesthetic of the Suits and Ship where changed a bit to be LESS ORGANIC too...

Which causes some Conflict which leaves some Ambiguity which leaves ROOM for Change.

So YES they could introduce another Species as the Space Jockey ;)

in the second part of the alien, when the marines descend to the bottom of the colonist base, you can see that the lowest level is like a ship or an engineer structure. as if the colonist base and atmospheric processor were built on the ruins of engineering structures.

What if the Space Jockey was an android, robot? in Prometheus and Convenant, in Aliens ship, you can see that they are standing at the entrance to the main hall humanoids. engineers. They seem to have longer arms than an engineer who is dressed in a chair later. they could be robots and one of them was in a ship on LV-426

What if the Space Jockey was an android robot? in Prometheus and Convenant in Aliens ship, you can see that they are standing at the entrance to the main hall of humanoids. engineers. they seem to have longer arms already an engineer who is dressed in a chair later. they could be robots and one of them was in a ship on LV-426

I think with RBW then all we are seeing are Easter Eggs and its in NO WAY to be Connected to the ALIEN Franchise.

Regarding the FATE/ORIGIN of the Space Jockey well with DISNEY now in Control this could be something that can be Changed... for example the Prequels Ignored!

Aesthetically and Scale wise then YES their are Differences between the Space Jockey and the Engineers in Prometheus.

This was a Deliberate Creative Decision... it was also something that would Cause some Ambiguity for Changes in the Future or to KEEP a Mystery.

If they wanted to it would NOT have been Impossible to gain a Agreement with the HR Giger Estate to give us a SHIP and Space Suit that matched what we saw in ALIEN.

At the Present the Space Jockey is OPEN for Debate it could have been Revealed as a Connected Race to the Engineers, and maybe either a OLDER or NEWER kind of Technology than what we saw in the Prequels.

It could even had been Revealed as either a Creation of Davids or even David himself.... but as we are UNLIKELY to get a Conclusion to the Prequels.. we may NEVER know the Space Jockey Identity and Event!

I do think within Context to the Franchise there is Room to Introduce another Species that are 12-15ft Tall... something that PREDATES our Engineers... maybe?

Well, first of all, we have a problem with David and the time span of 18 years since he created the xenomorph (unless we want to retcon). How can the derelict look ancient and the Space Jockey look fossilized?

Secondly, the rib cage does look like bones and not a suit. However, a trunk does not have any bones so if time has gone by, it would have disappeared. Unless we want to retcon, it's an Engineer who is the Space Jockey which is what Scott wanted to show us in Prometheus. The reason why the Engineers are smaller than the Space Jockey is probably just because it was easier to make Prometheus.

In my opinion, should the Space Jockey be something else, it would be a retcon (I don't mind that).

Concerning the concept "bio-mechanical".

I think we have to decide what we are talking about:

* The aesthetics: It's just how they look

* A blend of biological and mechanical parts

* A blend of biology and machine

Most biological creatures have both biological and mechanical parts (bones). Also, humans blend with machines e.g. in hospitals (respirators, heart-lung machine, intravenous treatment, etc.)

If the Derelict is grown, and perhaps even the Space Jockey, I would say its biological - not bio-mechanical.

"How can the derelict look ancient and the Space Jockey look fossilized?"

Certainly... regardless if we have a Fossil or a Space Suit, we have to look at AC and the Set Up and Assume that the Derelict Event would NOT come into Play until we have David go to Origae-6 which leaves us like 10 Years or Less for the Derelict to be on LV-426 unless they use TIME-TRAVEL or something.

" the rib cage does look like bones and not a suit. However, a trunk does not have any bones so if time has gone by"

You raise a Great Point, if we assume the Space Jockey is the Skeletal Remains of a Organism, then the TRUNK should NOT be there unless its some kind of Bone rather than Sinew, Gristle.  If we look at the Skeletons of Long Snouted, Trunked Animals on Earth they have NO Snouts of Trunks!

The Ribcage does look Skeletal to a Degree, Certainly most of it, likewise the Face (Snorkle/Trunk aside), however to me those Ribs are more Exoskeletal like the Xenormorphs ;)

We do have Dallas say it looks Fossilized and Bones bent Outwards which leads us to think we are seeing a SKELETON and indeed this was the Original Idea.. but the Skeletal remains were a ALIEN Creature that has NO real Resemblance to a Bi-Pedal Humanoid.

When i think ALIEN and what MADE it so Great and Unique then it was HR Giger, the Xenomorph (all of its Life Cycle) the Derelict, the Cargo Hold, the Pilot Room and Chair.....  they are all Designed by HR Giger.

He gave us Bio-Mechanical and to me to have the Space Jockey as a SKELETON of some ALIEN RACE would NOT be something that is HR Giger not if its all Flesh/Blood.

I have the Impression we either have a Bio-Mechanical Suit thats Connected to the Chair... or we have a Bio-Mechanical Being that Interfaces with the Chair.

Due to Scale and Aesthetic Differences, and NO Conclusion then YES they could explore the Space Jockey as either another being in a Slightly Different Space Suit and maybe the Occupant is NOT so Human looking... or we have a Bio-Mechanical Being like the Xenomorph is.

"bio-mechanical"

I think we should be looking at the HR Giger Aesthetic ;)

"If the Derelict is grown"

HR Giger Suggested this... but we CANT really Fathom to HOW ALIEN such a Species and their Ships are... so YES we are likely dealing with something ORGANIC that just has some Not So Organic Parts or as far as does-not look Traditionally Organic.

I had mentioned a Few Times maybe in Part we could be looking at something like a Plant.

His Concepts and Mural where Interesting.... he indeed seemed to feel the Derelict is Grown and the Cargo Hold would Actually Produce the Eggs, so the Derelict is kind of a Living Bio-Mechanical Organism that is MOTHER to the Eggs.  And so the Xenomorph and Derelict are implied to be Connected Genetically if you would.

Maybe they should have looked more into his Ideas and Aesthetic, and gave us something HR Giger meets Lovecraft.

"How can the derelict look ancient and the Space Jockey look fossilized?"

We know very little about the pathogen. We've seen how the Engineers on Planet 4 were turned into fossils after just 10 years! Who knows what would of happened if the Nostromo didn't go boom....Might still be floating filled with the fossilized remains of the crew!

Captain of the explorer Rampage ( salvaging the remains of the Nostromo ) "What the hell happened to them!? Looks like they've been dead for millions of years!"

Fun fact: MUTHER jettisoned the core before the Nostromo exploded....What Ripley witnessed was the cores destruction. MUTHER wanted her specimen intact.

"We know very little about the pathogen. We've seen how the Engineers on Planet 4 were turned into fossils after just 10 years!"

Certainly they was Turned to like Stone... Mummified would be a Better Description than Fossilized

When we look at the Space Jockey then the AREA in Blue is where we have that Bone kind of Color, but some of  the CHAIR has also became this Color.

When we look Further into it and the PROP.... then it seems Part of the Lower Chair has also Faded to a Bone like Color!

WHY?

And so we can ask to HOW and WHY would something where some Part is Clearly Mechanical has also Changed to the same Color as the Space Jockey itself!

Until we have a Conclusion then all we can do is Speculate to what EVENT and HOW LONG and WHAT/WHY could the Chair also Turn to Bone...... but i think we cant RULE-OUT that the Space Jockey Suit/Being was NOT really Bone Color but something had Happened to make it Change.

The Best Answer i have that i have USED before, has been Elevated with the DEACON.... who had a Skin that you could say was like a Shark/Dolphin and so has that Rubber/Gloss Look to it....  which is WHAT you could say about a Cactus.

A Cactus is Organic, maybe the Space Suits are similar and so over Time they could Degrade and Change like HOW the Cactus can...

HOWEVER.... the Problem with this is Prometheus, the Dead Engineers Suits appeared to be a Dark Grey, they had NOT turned to a Bone like Color..... so WHAT could Cause such a Change with the Space Jockey and Especially in a Short Space of Time?

I think that the space jockey is an engineer that was exposed to the black goo and thus causing a mutation that makes them look like the "space jockey". In the movie it's mentioned "It's almost like it's growing out of the chair"

The elephant like mask isn't an engineer mask but rather a face hugger, the engineer sent a warning singal before it died. It is mostly likely only a few years old judging by the lore

There are Inconsistencies in the Aesthetic of the Pilot and the Ship from ALIEN to Prometheus.

something could have Infected the Ship/Pilot so they would WARP/MUTATE and GROW or so it seemed, they could give that as a Reason.  They seemed to KEEP changing HOW it would Connect to ALIEN.

Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO, as something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and knowing he was Infected he had Attempted to Quarantine the Cargo on LV-426 but was Chest Busted as he was making the Landing.  This had Happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak on LV-223.

And so this implied that the Engineer had Gone into Cryo-Sleep as the Outbreak had Occurred he had AWOKEN some Few Hundred Years Latter and went off on his MISSION but then Discovered his Cargo had Evolved and then Infected him.

But thats all Changed with Alien Covenant.... it would seem likely that the Space Jockey would be either.

*David

*Another Synthetic

*A Sub-Created Humanoid by David.

But it could be OPEN to be a Engineer, a Race above the Engineers, or even just a Human.  It seems we will NEVER get a Conclusion and in TIME i think the Prequels will be REMOVED from Canon.

So if that the Case and i have to go back to WHAT i thought it would be prior to the Prequels... then that would be some 12-15ft Humanoid in a Space Suit.

I have two (or three theories) about who the space jockey is

I honestly think the best theory is that they're a sub-species of engineers, most likely similar to the ones seen getting killed by david. And yes i know that ridley scott said both are engineers but that can mean many things. None of them really look like engineers despite being claimed to be. If you look at their skin color from concept arts and their face mask thing (which i think is face hugger, but you get my point) look similar to the masks that we see the engineers wear in prometheus. Now, i know that comics are non-canon but both the engineers and the space jockey are a species called the mal'ak (Not sure if spelt correctly) which is why i think this theory holds the most sense. It could also be a mutated engineers as my previous theory said

The second is that they are a separate species which might or might not be above the engineers, There is many evidence to suggest this, first of all look at their masks, it looks like they are trying to mimic the space jockeys, and when we saw david go to "paradise" in covenant it looked like the engineers(or their sub-species) were waiting for a "god" to return, now the main problem here is that it would bring up a "god paradox" The space jockeys created the engineers but who created the space jockeys? And who created the creators of them, and so on. However this could be avoided easily.

And the third theory is that it's problem an andriod made by david or the engineers, which would make sense as they would most likely use decoys to transport bio-weapons like the xenomorphs, and it would make sense that the xenos got their bio-mechanical looks form it.

Now there are other theories that it is a human or david but those don't really make sense canon wise, but then again many things don't. I really hope that the "prometheus" saga doesn't get retconned or rebooted as it would take 2 films to make another origin story, but with disney owning the rights it is very worrying

The Space Jockey is something that has GONE through Changes....

Originally it was the Remains (Skeletal) of a Alien Organism that has NO Resemblance to a Human.  Then HR Giger came along and RS liked some of his Concepts which include Necronom V and so they did some Story Boards having the Space Jockey as similar to this Piece which would be a Bio-Mechanical being.

But then HR Giger was tasked to come up with a Original Design and he gave us the Space Jockey as in the Topic Banner, which implies either a Bio-Mechanical Being or a Space Suit.

Here are HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts, and NOTE the Suit (not Helmet) is Similar to the Engineers Suits we saw in Prometheus (Suit the Engineer was in Cryo-sleep with) also these beings are Bald Humanoids.

In HR Gigers Mural we see these Space Suited beings but the Image on the Right is the Latter Versions where the MASK had been Changed, this Mask has some Connection to the Space Jockey Concept.

So our Space Jockey had became a Humanoid in a Space Suit, but the Problems began when the Actual Prop was Finished and it looked more like Bones/Skeleton in some Areas....

When we get to the Prequels then the Concept Works some of them looked more like a Merger between the Space Jockey Prop and the Concept that they was Based Off, but then they also did some Concepts that made it look LESS like the Space Jockey and our Prometheus Suit were BORN.

We was Supposed to be getting some 12-15ft Engineers, then 10ft but ALAS the Final Result was 8ft and this makes some Conflict to the Space Jockey Size but we are Expected to OVERLOOK such differences.

So they wanted to give us 9-10ft Tall Engineers as of Production.  But for all Intensive Purposes as of 2012 then YES the Space Jockey would have been a Engineer.

With the Change of Direction with AC we have to ASSUME that when David tucks Daniels into Cryo-Sleep there is NO EGGS on the Derelict and Likely that the SHIP is even NOT on LV-426 yet.

And so we have NOT yet concluded to WHO the Space Jockey is and so it could be a Engineer still (LV-223 or Planet 4 kind) but if they want to AVOID any Conflicts with ALIEN then they could make the Space Jockey to be 10-12 Feet Tall, and by doing so Introduce it as either.

*A Larger Sub-Creation  of the Engineers.

*The Creators of the Engineers.

*Or a Species that has the same Creator as the Engineers have.

The Revelation of this Species does-not have to look Very Human but it should still be either.

*A Space Suit

OR

*A Bio-Mechanical Organism.

But i Suspect that RS would have Revealed it as a Sub-Creation of David or David himself.

I can agree on that, due to the many retcons i think the most logical answers is that they are a sub-species of the engineers, like we saw in "paradise city". I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before.

Seeing ridley's original plans and many other pitched scripts, it is clear that the space jockey was supposed to be an engineer, but looking at giger's artwork it shows a more humanoid version of the "space jockey" somewhat similar to what we got in prometheus. I think it's most likely a mix of the space jockeys and the ones original seen in gigers art work

"I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before"

Well i think it FITS with the Theme that RS seems to be going for, which will BOIL DOWN to the ONLY thing that makes our Engineers Gods... is TIME and TECHNOLOGY/KNOWLEDGE.

And so IF the Company had Gained all their Knowledge then Mankind would be able to Genetically Alter themselves to LIVE for Longer, become Physically Superior and with the Engineers Creation Tool (GOO) they can then Create/Hybrid Lifeforms and with the Engineers Ships... then we could become the GODS.

The Space Jockey had gone through a LOT of Changes... it seemed PRIOR to the Prequels the IDEA that RS had settled on was we it was a SPACE SUIT. And Considering the Concepts by HR Giger it was NO real Surprise to me when we saw the Engineers.

The Main Dilemma comes from the SCALE i would say IF you asked RS or what he was thinking back in 2005, 2000, 1995 etc.... there would be NO WAY that he would Picture the Space Jockey Suit as being something that is WORN by a 8ft Being.  Our Downsized Pilot has came about from RS being Reluctant to USE any Special Effects to Digitally make our 7ft Actors become 12-15ft Engineers.

The Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

I think as NOTHING has been 100% Spelt Out on Screen then its OPEN to Change and so any Incoming Engineer Elders could be Portrayed as being 10ft Tall.

You turn the PLOT to be that these beings had GOT to a Point they Cant Procreate and so they Created Humanoids like on Earth to then take the Females and using their DNA with the GOO they can Infect those Females Egg Cells to Create a Hybrid Human/Engineer and these are WHAT we see on Planet 4.

> he Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

According to the official wiki, they are rougly 25 feet (8 meters) tall, and around 2 meters wide. I could very well see them being a failed sub-creation of the engineers that might have been used by david to try and create a "drone" to infect other worlds.

I personally dislike the idea that a species was directly involved with creating the engineers as it would contradict the previous 2 movies

Yes the Intention was for a  27ft Tall Space Jockey but this FAILS for the same Reasons that our Engineers in Prometheus are Plain to see they are NOT 10ft.

Ridley Scott like to use Actual Props/Sets and he does things to Create a Illusion of Scale that are UNDONE in other Shots... Example is

Using Camera Angles and having Ian Whyte (Engineer) Standing on a Platform thats at HIGHER LEVEL than Fassbender and Pearce are gives the Illusion that the Engineer is much more Taller. (seem like just under 9ft, when in Reality he was just over 7ft).

The Intended Height and Acceptance of the Space Jockey before the Prequels was 15ft (i actually think it was 13ft) and so when we STARTED on the Prequels our Engineers were INTENDED to be 12-15ft but Ridley Scott would NOT go and USE any kind of Effects to Create that Reality.

In Reality though the Pilot Chair Props are about the Same Size, and so our Prometheus Space Jockey is SMALLER than the our Space Jockey from ALIEN.

But this still means the 1979 Space Jockey would FIT in the same Chair.

Ridley Scott said about how Humans come in all Different Races... then WHY cant the Engineers?  Well i also say that IF we as Humans come in Different Sizes then WHY cant the  Engineers?

So our 7ft-8ft Basket Ball Players in the Engineers Society could mean we can have 9-10ft Engineers, and so if they SHOW us a 9-10ft Engineer who has a SUIT that FITS them and maybe we Accept something Happened to Cause this 10ft Suited Space Jockey to SWELL UP then indeed THAT would make the Scale to the Space Jockey more Accepting.

And so i would like to think the Space Jockey is a 10ft Entity/Being who maybe has Grown out of the Chair a Little (for some Reason) or they could give us a 12ft Being instead.   And if so then this BEING would be Best Shown to be ABOVE the Engineers in the Creation Layer Cake or another Sub-Creation of the Engineers.

I do Suspect that Ridley Scott would maybe thrown a Curve-ball it is David or a Sub-Creation of his though... but we MAY NEVER get to know or see that anymore.

I still think you could Explore the Space Jockey as something Else.

As i have indicated on this Topic what we have is a Space Suit where its ONLY the Skull that looks kind of like a Skeleton.

I came Across this Work by Noely Ryan

I think its a BIT too much like the NewBorn but i could Imagine where the NOSE AREA is having a Snorkel/Breathing Pipe Connected to it that Connects to the Suit/Chair....  so the Suit does-not have a Helmet per-say and EVEN if we USE the other Fifield Concept that i have used in this TOPIC in the same Way.

I think either could WORK as a Alternative Space Jockey to Introduce them as a Different Taller Species.

Love that artwork!   ( Was the NewBorn done forming? Most think the Deacon, like the newborn, was an infant? Takes awhile for the xeno....)

I'd like to think the SpaceJockey ( Alien ) is a mutated military abomination created by the Engineers splicing their own genes. Creating super soldiers.....probably exactly what the militaries on Earth would do if they could!

So the Engineers created super soldiers and gave them modified / upgraded juggernauts?