Alien: Covenant Is A Better Aliens Sequel Than Alien 3

Absolutely.

I like Alien3...But killing off Newt,Hicks, Bishop...was just a little too much for me.

Not to mention: why was the Sulaco hovering above a prison colony? How did the Facehugger get aboard...stuff like that...

Love the Alien3 soundtrack...But I like Alien Covenant's soundtrack even more!

AC has a lot of flaws...but none I put in the Alien3 cate'gory '.

Everyone has their opinion. And, as it happens, I share the above opinions! But I didn't have to overthink it. I just like Covenant for what it is. I know it backwards, like all the Alien movies, and really rate it.

Who knows how Alien 3 would have fared without the terrible studio interference that was inflicted on Fincher. It could have been a great film instead of a patched-together mess.

I like Alien3 for what it is and I did not care much about continuity, especially since all the characters except Ripley didn't make it to the next film. Even the xenomorph is not the same from one film to the next. And it seems the producers / writers / directors did not care much for continuity either. 

But when I look again at the ending of Alien Covenant, man, that's the first time when I need to see some continuity.

Its a shame that Alien 3 was Plagued with Interference and Production Issues...

However the more i see it the more i like it.... TRUE they never gave much thought to explain HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco but this does give us something to Debate about!

Miss Weaver did want to be Killed Off dont forget ;)

Carrie Henn would have been 15+ at Shooting of Alien 3 and so they would have had to CAST someone else as NEWT

If you had to Change it a bit... i would have KEPT it that Hicks Survived but was too ILL/INJURED until latter in the Movie...   He would then Learn of the loss of NEWT.. you would then see more of a BOND between Ripley and Hicks... which would make the Sacrifice of Ripley have more Impact as we could FEEL the Loss that Hicks has Suffered.

As Miss Weaver had appeared to have enough of the Franchise at this Time, it would have meant the Torch being passed to Hicks for a ALIEN 4

I tend to lean daliens' way. The Quadrilogy was largely the story of Ripley and the Xeno- the two things that were consistent in the Quadrilogy althoughthere were evolutions with both characters. Back when I originally watched them, I just enjoyed them as is and wasn't nit picky like now.

I think Alien 3 was a better sequel. It carried on Ripley's story arc to its fateful conclusion (at the time) and the Xeno returned to a singular yet faster and more aggressive killer- One Xeno instead of a hive. For Ripley, there was closure, terrible as it was.

I am not a Prometheus fan but don't completely hate it. That said, I think both AC and Prometheus would have been better if Covenant focused more on the Engineers- well, we all know the whys and wherefores.

But that is why I think A3 is the better sequel.

Prometheus was washy, but still visually enjoyable. Plus who didn't enjoy Michael Fassbender?

Covenant sort of corrects it all. And makes the character of David even more interesting.

Chalk it up to guilty pleasure, or what have you I don't care. I still love the film. Anyone else feel the same?

The franchise is already in a strange place, with the latest films sitting somewhere between prequels and sequels. And as with any long-running franchise, numerous entries can led to a complicated timeline

'complicated timeline.'

This for sure.

Alien universe is open to cloning, immortal synthetics and hyper sleep.

There really isn't a good reason why Peter Weyland let himself age. He could have cloned/uploaded/ or just frozen/hyperslept himself....waking every 50 years to check on events...cure for aging yet?...no?...see you in 50.

1. The humanoids we see on Planet 4 look vastly different (height, skin color, facial features, eyes) from the Engineers in Prometheus, who in turn look about half the size of the Space Jockey. Also, aside from the docking station, their technology seems bronze-age at best. Maybe we're only seeing one city on a huge planet, a holy place where people live a monastic life with rags and few possessions. Maybe David chose to attack this relatively undefended city first, rather than deploying it in a larger city where the people could defend themselves; better to let the infestation grow and become stronger before facing off with guns and technology. But maybe...

Having different opinions is fine, the biggest difference is that Alien 3 had well created characters or at least enough of them to be interesting, Covenant has not got many. Alien Covenant is about a mad robot, Alien 3 is not.

Alien 3 was criticized when it was released but I think that it has gotten a better reputation as time has passed and we have gotten more or less mediocre movies after that. I would say that the downfall started with Alien Resurrection. Yes A3 ignored some parts of Aliens but I do not think that it is a bad thing. To me I find a continuity of the family-motif in Aliens to be boring but it worked in Aliens to make it a bit different compared to the first one. Alien has never been about family, happiness, rainbows and having fun. Bad things happen and people die, with the exception of Aliens and AR, in tone I mean.

"… Alien: Covenant, is a spiritual successor to Aliens and reinvents certain story threads in a respectful and clever way."

Alien Covenant is not even close to Aliens, that is like comparing a rusty and old bicycle to a shiny new motorbike. Daniels and Tennessee are like Ripley and Hicks? Nope, R and H had personality, D and T have none that I can think of at least. What are their personality traits? I can not see any while as in R and H I can see plenty. Killing off Newt and Hicks was alright because it was never about them anyways and it was a good way to start something new.

About David and Bishop, David is an asshole and Bishop tried to help. I can see that Walter is closer to Bishop and Walter was alright.

Both movies touched upon the story of the monster. I am not too impressed with the queen (I prefer egg-morphing) but at least Aliens did not do a disservice to the franchise like Alien Covenant did by connecting it with an android something that I really think is... crappy (I could use harsher words for it but I want this post to be civil in tone).

I agree with DK that they should have had more about the Engineers in Alien Covenant. They should never have made AC if you ask me because it is to a big part a failure. Having said this it has some things that I enjoy.

AC had its moments, but as far as a prequel/sequel I think it pales in comparison to A3. Watching the movies in sequence from Prometheus to Resurrection, Covenant actually sticks out as a movie that does nothing to tie in the franchise as a whole. At least with Prometheus, there was enough for us to tie in Alien.

Despite all its flaws and very poorly aged CGI Alien3 has, and always probably will be my personal favourite of all the films. 

It has more characters than most of the films bar Aliens and maybe AR, but the feeling of loneliness, isolation and hopelessness is so strong in the film.

More so than even Alien.

Perhaps because the Nostromo crew were a team/unit fighting for their survival, whereas Ripley and co. on Furina were a ragtag group defying their inevitable death? 

In any case, Alien3 feels the most 'Alien' of all the films and captures and pulls on all the right emotions that should be in such a film.

I'm really sorry to say but the article did not provide nothing of interest for me. The main idea that AC is better than A cubed because of nostalgia coming from a someone in there early 20s does make me worried for that we will never have something a tad bit new. 

Sure cubed wanted to return to type of movie of the original, and the absence of both Newt and Hicks could have been explained in other ways, but at least it was not full of references from what was before, making it indistinguishable from a self-parody.

So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged?  I can think of nothing (maybe Ripley's death?) I would keep the same.

AC? ummm.... i'd dump David as the creator...keep Shaw...Have her plead with the colonist to take her away..get her off this hell hole and away from David...keep the ending. .....I'd keep the basic premise and find a way to make it work.

Alien3? No dump it all. 

For A3, I would only have it tinkered with to make some dialogue more audible in places and that's it.

AC is a whole other issue. I would have liked to see some high level Engineers come around after the pathogen bombardment to let David know he was dealing with a force far superior to himself. Even it was some tech in the house of heads that he unwittingly activated.

So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged?

MonsterZero  Honestly,I would fix up the dodgy xenomorph CGI, make the Assembly cut the Theatrical cut, clear up the egg continuity issue....and thats about it.

Maybe glue a toupee and a mustache on a few of the inmates to differentiate them abit 

Like Andrews here XD

 Smashing.

So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script. Who in here would leave it unchanged?

The best option - to release a version of Gibson.

Everyone: Alien 3 has bad CGI.

Plot twist: The only CGI part in the whole film was the alien's dome cracking before exploding. All those other scenes of the alien running around were just a puppet in front of a blue screen.

Puppet:

Dome cracking CGI:

 Dun dun duuuunn

Thanks for the info Dark Nebula!

Very cool...going to re-watch alien3 now....

I think what people think is CGI were composites done photo chemically (whatever that process is) with CGI shadows added in according to people on the effects team. It wasn't bad but the creature looked "dry".

It's explained here at the 20:20 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79cHyA836Bw&t=1245s

After watching it again...really bad matte ..off putting.

The soundtrack is the only reason i watch the film these days.

Of course..I don't know how you could top or even match Alien or Aliens....but this really fell short IMHO. I pretty much agree with all critiques. 

"So if we all got in a time machine...traveled back and were able to take control of the Alien3 script"

Firstly as FAR as Effects then yes a bit more Time and Money would have been Nice... but the same could be said about some shots from Alien Covenant.

Regarding Changing Alien 3.... i think most of the Script works..... i wish they had a more Plausible Explanation/Way to Show HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco than the Plot Hole we got.

Would have changed some Dialog for the Bishop Scene where he would admire the Xenomorph more, suggesting it is a Evolutionary Perfection or something... and have him mention how Humanity has Limitations and then how the Bishop Model Androids where Flawed.... all of this would make it hard for us to Speculate if Micheal Bishop was Human or some other kind of A.I

On the Deaths!

Newt had to be done... as Carrie Henn would have been 15 at the Time of Shooting etc...

Ripley i felt it gave her a Good Ending, via Sacrifice.. and not forgetting Miss Weaver wanted out.

Hicks i would have KEPT ALIVE... have him in a Coma well Incapacitated until latter on, when he awakes and sees Ripley with NO Hair...  then  he is informed he is on a Prison Planet.... he may be Concerned/Confused but also Thankful... UNTIL he gets the Bombshells...

1st that Newt has Died.... and then that Ripley is infected with a Queen and that a ALIEN is on the Loose... By the END of the Movie after Ripley has died, we could have Hicks as our Proxy to how he feels... the Heart Break at the loss of Newt and Ripley...

You bet he would be DETERMINED to NEVER allow anyone to try and obtain a Xenomorph again... not if he dont have anything to do with it... as so we could have had a 4th Movie that would continue with Hicks.

Why a prison(/ore) planet? So you can kill a bunch of murdering psychos? I'm rooting for the Xeno!

Alien :R suffered the same problem...I didn't care about anyone. Weren't any characters I cared for...

Yeah If I were to (re)make Alien 3, I would have gone the ALIENS: Outbreak/Earth Hive route

MonsterZero:

They could probably have had it at another planet but I did not have any problem with it. About the prisoners I think that was an interesting thing. What do you do when you know that you have done terrible things and that you would be disliked to many on earth? Staying there and try to become a better person is not such a bad thing compared to what the alternative could be I guess. I understand your point of view but I just think that it is interesting. By the way, what did you think about Ripley and Clemens in that movie? Clemens was far from a murdering psycho, he was there because he killed people because of a wrong dosage of painkillers which to me was an accident it seems but not because he was an angry maniac or psychopath.

Most of the alien work (monster work) was not CGI, this is something that you can see in the making of Alien 3. I think that it is alright even though it could probably have been better.

When it comes to Alien Resurrection I agree. They only one that I probably gave a shit about was maybe Call but yeah it was bad writing so how they decided to go ahead with that is something that I don't understand. Maybe they thought that they needed money and that the Alien movies usually make a profit so they released it because of that and with no artistic thought in mind.

You mention Aliens, to me it feels too much like a Rambo shoot em up kind of movie. It has some sort of 80's vibe to it so to me it is the one that has not aged well, to me at least. Of course I watch it a bit now and then but it is probably the one that I watch the least among the original three which is interesting since it was my favorite for a long time.

I actually like Alien3 more than Aliens now! Creepier and dark. If Aliens had the level of acting exhibited in Alien3, it would rival A L I E N imho.

MonsterZero Which version- theatrical or Assembly?

Thoughts_Dreams What do you do when you know that you have done terrible things and that you would be disliked to many on earth? Staying there and try to become a better person is not such a bad thing compared to what the alternative could be I guess. I understand your point of view but I just think that it is interesting.

I whole-heartedly agree! There are a few scenes in the assembly cut where they try to explore this and the Brotherhood the inmates have created for themselves. Dillon going out of his way to ensure the group is inclusive of Golic for example. 

To be an outcast even amongst the outcast would be a truly lonely and sad fate. So they make a point 'to tolerate even the intolerable' so that every inmate knows they are not truly monstrous and irredeemable. 

You might not have any sympathy for a bunch of murderers, rapists and thieves - which is fair

But everyone can understand and appreciate the feeling of being included. We are a herd species. The sense of belonging is ingrained in us.

So its an interesting and deep topic to explore. Deeper than most people give Alien3 credit for, and a credit to Vincent Ward's script parts that made it into the film

Alien 3 is also about redemption if you take in the Assembly cut. They are society's outcast (and perhaps for good reason), but they create their own society and try to be orderly. There are levels to the movie to ponder. For instance, I learned the ox in the Assembly cut was a reference to the importance of owning an ox back in biblical times. 

Alien 3 is a movie that I hated in the 90s but it is a movie I really appreciate and it improves with age. 

It doesn't get better. This is just nostalgia.

Some characters is solid, but plot is crap. This film has an interesting dialogue (thx to Dillon), but the environment is wretched. Xenomorph is crippled by the amateurish and cheap production of ADI - they thought the flesh was scary and terrible, and biomechanical is unnatural and not scary. But the Alien (shape) was never about terrible and disgusting - it is primarily the erotomechanic of Giger and an incredible elegant style. Fortunately, Giger’s style is not so easy to ruin.

This is a controversial film. This film deserves to be watched and rewatched many times. But it does not deserve to be part of continuity, part of canon. I easily agree to any retcon.

5/10

Alien 3 is like a dead poop that your beloved dog is lays aside and that you keep as a sentimental memory.

 dk 'theatrical or Assembly'

I prefer the theatrical ....I like the flow.

Assembled makes me ask questions and i'd rather just turn my brain off.

Aliens like Rambo ;)

I would agree in Part, as far as i also held ALIENS in a Higher Regard and saw Alien Resurrection as a bit of a Abomination when it came out, but as i got Older and Older then Aliens became more of a Starship Troopers kind of Flick...   while then i began to look Deeper at other Underlying Themes that Alien Resurrection had such as WHAT would Mankind do when they Successfully obtain a Xenomorph, purely using it to unleash Face Huggers that then Produce Snarling Aggressive Xenomorphs is MAYBE NOT the best way to USE/EXPLOIT the Organism.

I found Ripley 8 interesting as far as the Amalgamation of Human and Xenomorph, i thought the Failed Experiments was interesting from the Standpoint of what if we saw some Successful Hybrids.

Finally i found Call interesting and the whole Autons Subplot as something to Explore.  When Prometheus was released if felt it touched on some of the same Concepts/Themes (Exploiting, Experimenting with the Xenomorph DNA) and Subcreation.

This is just nostalgia.

Not sure what that means as I watched it two nights ago and like it even better than when I watched it two years ago. The environment is wretched- it is supposed to be. Regarding whether it deserves to be in the continuity is subjective, but the fact is that it is canon warts and all as is Resurrection.

It is and probably always will be controversial as this thread shows (we aren't even talking Covenant anymore). That's ok. It just goes to show how passionate people still feel about the movie.

My biggest critique of Ripley's dialogue was when she said the company thought of everyone as "crud". I think it would have made more impact to use even saltier language. Bit I guess it was the 90s.

Yeah language/dialog is painfully 1980's based. they're not going to speak this way in a 100 years...hopefully.

Look at difference between Jules Verne/H.G. Wells prose and 100 years later Ian Banks/Peter f. Hamilton.

I'll still take Alien:Covenant over Alien3:

AC:

More monsters.

Cool spaceships.

See the Juggernaut drop cargo.

Gun play.

Alien city.

Backburst...really like the spore idea.

Alien3:

Soundtrack is great.

Dark.

In other words: More cools stuff in AC.

Let’s rewrite Alien 3

The Sulaco never leaves the system, stays in orbit around LV-426.

After the crew enter hypersleep, Mother brings a backup synthetic online. That synth, Bishop 2, interfaces with the Bishop. It learns about the alien.

 Bishop 2 travels to the surface, returning with multiple eggs.(visits the derelict)

 It later uses Newt as a test subject.  Bishop 2 “Fascinating”  The newly born xeno damages the Sulaco causing a fire. 

As Bishop 2 fights the fire, Ripley, Hicks and Bishop are awoken.

Ripley “Where’s Newt!?”

They are trapped as Mother isolates the ship from the fire.

Bishop hacks into Mother...finds out the truth.(lots of gory Newt video and facehuggers running loose on the Sulaco)

They defeat Bishop 2 and the xeno/facehuggers(lots of action)

Bishop rigs the Sulaco for destruction(“Sulaco CAN”T reach  Earth!!”)...he stays on board to carry out the task.

Hicks and Ripley escape the Sulaco in the drop ship. (Sulaco *boom!*)

The movie ends with them landing on LV-426.

Alien 3 scene 8:

Hicks and Ripley continued observing the monitors. Out of the corner of her eye she saw someone or something….

Ripley “Ash?!”

Hicks “Wha...who’s Ash?”

Ripley “Tell me you saw that!…?”

Hicks “Saw what?......You alright?”

Ripley “.......I’m seeing things...seeing ghosts..” gives a nervous laugh.

Hicks  “Maybe you should try and get some rest?”, “Take a break”, “I’ll keep an eye on things”.

Ripley “......Yeah...for once, I think you’re right” smiling “..think I’ll lay down…”

Ripley gets up, turns around and walks straight into captain Dallas of the Nostromo.

----

Dallas “How is she?”

Ash “Good”, “I have her under sedation”

Dallas “Alright, keep me up to date” Dallas leaves the cabin

Brett and Parker look in from the corridor .

Ash closes the door to the compartment..

Ash “Ripley? Can you hear me?”

A dazed Ripley ever so slightly nods her head.

Ash “I’m afraid we have all been exposed to a virus”, "A pathological one...Hallucinations and more.."

Ash “We’ve also read your report and I can assure you the Nostromo and it’s crew are very much alive..”

-----

Hicks “What’s wrong with her?”

Ripley laying on the floor, comatose.

Bishop “Results of the scan are incoming…”

Hicks “One moment she was up...the next down..”

Bishop “She has been mind stemmed..”

Hicks “What! Super Soldiered...Who wou..”, realizing  “The company..Carter Burke!”

Bishop “Yes, they must have implanted the device on Earth, just before the mission”

Hicks “Bastards”, “Should have known they would monitor her every step…”, “But why did it activate?!”

Suddenly there was a loud *clank* and the Sulaco shuddered

Bishop “I’m afraid you have your answer”

The monitors showed a spacecraft docking with the Sulaco

-----

Ash took the laser scalpel and made a small incision to his index finger. Red blood trickled from the cut

Ash “Satisfied?”

Ripley sighed. It is over. All a bad dream. Amanda is alive, Jonesy is alive...so is Kane. No alien. No problems...Just a virus Brett and Parker  picked up ‘bar hopping’. Earth orbit soon. Then a desk job.

Dallas “Glad you’re feeling better..” adding “...Not to be a bearer of bad news...But your shift is starting in one hour” Dallas grinned