Prometheus 2 plot, possible just speculation not FACT

I have read all what you wrote and we share some major ideas... You are a bright spot of this forum, Dave... maybe they should hire you to revise the screenplay... it would be a BOMB! :)

Bravo.

P.s. I have faith in John Logan and those two writers (Green, and Peglan). This picture above shows to me that they knew from start...were they are going. Maybe they changed the routes slightly :) Hope for great movie remains, and we will wait and see ;) 

Hard to make out as some of the detail is vary vague and ambigious but thats Giger for you a lot of his work you cant make out when one thing ends and another begins...

I do think the Face in that Arch has to be connected to the Engineers and maybe where they obtained their Bio-Tech From...  as the Sacrificial Scene their ship did not look as Giger Bio-Mechanical or their Atire....

Is it the Fresco Creature? Who knows... but i would say that they are connected at the very least.

***Its easy to notice SAME patterns.

And what the hell is cistern..??? I mean, what purpose it has? (image below)

Maybe I am boring with all my images and interpretations... But it is impossible to see all these different things and symbols in movie and to say that it is a coincidence (it is not)... and that there is everywhe ambiguity...  I now very much belive that everything in Prometheus is very much intentional! 

There are many hidden depictions of mythological, religious, science and philosophical elements and symbols in this movie that it is insane... We see symbol of water, sacrifice, holy chalice, forbiden fruit and the fluid of creation and destruction ( tree of the knowledge of good and evil; Norse eitr/ liquid substance is the origin of all living things: the first giant (again giant) Ymir was conceived from eitr. The substance is supposed to be very poisonous and is also produced by Jörmungandr the Midgard serpent and other serpents), Engeener during sacrifice even stand in the same position as Satan in John Baptist Medina painting (gravure) The Creation of Man created for Miltons Paradise Lost (see Blake philospohy); then all those artifact from history (Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian...) showing how Engeeners visited us (Ancient astrounaut theories), Book of Enoch/Anunnaki, Nephilim (called Giants in Bible)... Prometheus reach destination on Christmas... or ancient holiday called Saturnalia (note the Planet in the system where LV_223 is located, it look same as Saturn), and it opens the question of dieties related to Saturn as for example Oziris, and Saturn himself... Then wee have Titan Prometheus and his "sin" of giving the man fire (note that Holowey is killed by fire thrower), and Prometheus even created the man from mud and Athena brought him to life... then comes Pandora and her box with all the hell in it... (this all Greek mythology is same as Miltons vision of Gods And Satan war and Adam and Eve story of sin...). All of this myths and religious motifs are so intertwined and almost simillar and with the same message... Then you have Shaw who is infertile but she gave birth to trilobite (like Marry; virgin birth)... Symbolism of cross during sacrifices (Holloway and Janek)... Now we see even presence of god Pan (fertility and mortality) on this photo and who knows what more is there... There is even great influence of painter William Blake and his paintings (see Engineers look) and philosophy:

"Afallen creator known as Urizen (the Satanic element of the fourfold division of God) acts as the creator figure for the world. This is basically a retelling of the concepts at the heart of Gnosticism- the belief that the one true supreme god is remote and untouchable and that creation as we know it stems from an imperfect demiurge..."

It would be nice to collect all of this mythological, symbolical, religious, philosophical, and scientific (time relativity and wormhole theory is present in the movie as Pythagoras philosophy of numbers and spheres; musical harmony and flute) elements into one great post or even a PDF... ;) 

Greek God PAN

Pan, who according to the Greek cosmology and works trying to describe the origin of the cosmos and mind - like Hesiod's -, belongs to the very first generation of Gods, who precede the existence of the cosmos. He is a progenitor-existent in the micro-cosmos just the same as in the macro-cosmos. Sometimes he is vulgarized, appearing as a triarchic system of micro-, macro-, and mezzo-cosmos, but really there's a hiding fourth; the uniting-all divine aspect. The aspect above existence and non-existence.
The word pan, means everything. Therefore he represents the all-aspect of the universe; the physical world, the psychic world, the idea world and the one above all, the divine sphere of One. In this respect he is called Gnosis, which is rather a state of "existence" (we are talking high out of existence) than a termable existent. As the primarily, divine, ancient and creating idea, he is called Pan pangenitor, "the creator of all", but is also called Pan panfager, "the destroyer of all". In Latin tradition the dark aspect of Pan will be called » Dispater, the Father of the Underworld, the ruler of Dis. So we see that Pan is an ambivalent figure like Merkurius-Hermes-Toth; he has a satanic face, the Saturnic, the Sol Niger face (Saturn is called DARK SUN), the face of the chaos of the under-waters, the face of the underworld, the nearly-nothing-aspect, and he has the face of the spiritual sun, the universality of above existence.

Pan's dark aspect can be traced through the centuries, and was always placed in very central position like the city of Dis in Dante's Divina Comedia, but centuries before that in the book of Enoch, giving same layers of the underworld. Therefore Pan is the Master of the Universe, not only Dispater, the lord of the chaotic under-waters and the equivalent of all dark aspects of things.

This "underworldness" was called khthonicity by the Greeks - the absolute darkness and abyss of all evil. In this chthonic under-water realm is where Dispater rules; this is where the women aspect of Nature (Physis), the Sophia, the daughter of the world is cast. By hermetics she is called Kore Kosmou ("Virgin of the World") and by the sumerian tradition Ereshkigal. She becomes the mistress of the underworld, the 'sacred whore' aspect, in contradiction to Innana, the virgin aspect. So maybe the first is Shaw... (as the mother of creature) and second is Daniels... 

Wow Enoch333! Incredible insight, I never once thought about the Engineer using a flute! I have a feeling this movie will be talked about for decades.

I really think that the backstory of the Prometheus is well conceived (almost perfect)... even some of the decisions (which are badly written) are very much intentional (when you look whole story)...

Read the meaning about god Pan (I edited post about) and symbolic behind him... I am now collecting all of hidden meaning into single pdf and then I will try to connect everything! :)

We have two engineers with robes (same from the opening scene), and
first looks at the hole on the pod...??????? This photo puts down my theory that
there are two types of Engineers...!

Here we see that something big came out...

Crystal???

What this photos mean? Can somebody with expertise explain me this?

"Maybe I am boring with all my images and interpretations"

Not at all, some of the images i cant comment to much on because they are making something out of a vague image like a cloud... some i can see what you are pointing out mind.

For certain maybe the Face above the Archways plays a important role... it has to be connected but how who knows.... could be what the Engineers got their Bio-Tech From, or something they created... its hard to say.

The thing is we truly cant be sure and may never find out, or at very least they may show us something that is no connected to these little Clues.... as if they was there for no reason and forgotten about like Lindeloff did a lot in Lost TV Series.

As far as the Mythos and Mottifs yes the movie was vaguely trying to connect various Mythos and Religon... maybe not as deep as you are trying to go, but certainly the broad strokes to the idea was based off those Many Mythos Ideas.

I would loved to had seen them show us more about how these things connected... but its if we ever will be shown this... i fear the Engineers and connections with all these Ancient Cultures and Mythos and Mottifs is something they are now going to steer away from and Tone down...

A Cistern is some kind of contraption usually a Bucket or Vat or Box that is used to collect Water, typically Rain Water.... we see that the central Shaft water drips down from this.... we see this when Holloway takes his Helmet off..

Why does it have water who knows, maybe Water is needed to create Life... many Ancient Creation Myths Water plays a key roll as far as the World.  The drafts and indeed Spaights sugest our Engineers were Teraforming down here (LV-223 Pyramid Mounds).

The Crystal Image is interesting as it appears to be concept work to Spaights draft were the Engineers did indeed have Teraforming Technology and Vickers was interested in getting her hands on this.

The Crystall on the Altar which may not be the Original Idea... could mean the Crystal is what the Seed of Life comes from? Maybe?

As far as the Chest Busted Engineers yes, the holes look bigger than a Xenomorph... but then check out the CryoPod Case/Lid.... those Holes are not large enough to allow what ever Chest Busted from the Engineer Props out...

Maybe just about i suppose...

As for the Robbed Engineers this is interesting and you have a higher Resultion one, i was on the fence with this as i thought maybe it could be fake?  well the Robes.... but im not so sure now.

What plans was going on who knows... how the Cryo Pods work out who knows.... well i have a few theories... but if indeed the Robed Engineers in that image was a Actual Shot they had taken but then removed... how much of a massive clue have them actually gone and removed?

Big Dave:

” i fear the Engineers and connections with all these Ancient Cultures and Mythos and Mottifs is something they are now going to steer away from and Tone down...”

I don’t think that they will need to do so, it depends on how they are telling the story and if they will connect things in a way that makes sense to those that watch it. The Engineers is a potentially interesting topic since they have not been explored before but they got to make it interesting and not confusing. Some questions could be left open so people can make up their own answers to it (that is how you do science really) but with that being said you also got to give logic answers to the main questions:

• Why do the Engineers want to kill us?
• Who made the Xenos and why?

These are the two questions in a nut shell that I want the movie to answer. They don’t need to give us all the answers but at least those that are the most important. What was interesting about the Xeno was that it was unknown so you could make your own image of it so maybe we could be give us 50% of the explanation to the Xeno and leave 50% of the answers to us to explain ourselves.

Back to the cultures and Engineers. You can explain a lot about the engineers and come up with many things but somewhere you got to make a limit to how many ideas you want to put into the movie. It is almost like writing an essay at a university course you can write about a topic and write about many things within the essay but somewhere you got to draw a line of what you shall write about or else the essay would cover like 100 pages without a problem. The Engineer society/politics, philosophy, and religion are the things that are the most interesting to me.

Lastly I got to mention that they need to make interesting human characters. This is something that I feel that I can’t bring up enough since that was something that Prometheus lacked but the captain (Janek) and David were well done.

I think they will bring the Engineers into it, i mean they have to dont they?  Prior to Alien: Covenant it appeared they was going to touch upon the Engineers a lot, even vaguely show connection to Paradise Lost... how much or how little of a connection is anyones Guess...

The Nuts and Bolts of Paradise Lost is about Hierarchy/Power some Boss at the top of the Lader who has a hand in the creation of those below them, and the creations have a purpose in life, the High Power has a purpose and set of rules to govern them... they have a Power a Knowledge that only they are allowed to possess and control, other may use such Knowledge and Power with the Permision of the Top of the Hierarchy.

It then shows Rebelion within the Lader or Hierarchy, and how Rebelion against the Laws, Commands and Order of the Higher Power is seen as Evil, and Corruption and that Rebelion and using Knowledge and disobeying the High Power leads to Punishment and Death.

Since Alien: Covenant Name Change, comments seem to steer away from the previous comments and the above.... is that the case? is there a U-Turn... i doubt it and hope not!

But i feel the Themes they was touching upon are going to be Toned down a lot.

Prometheus they had a Grand Idea... it explored a lot of themes in a vague way, it was ambigious but left us thinking what is that connection (Ancient Mankind and Godlike Beings) its something that could be explored.. or something that the basic idea is there as in WE ARE JUST A EXPERIMENT just as Holloway put it.

Ridley did say that the Space Jesus was something they was loosely going to persue but felt it was a bit to much on the head... and so they have just changed it to around that Time Mankind simply stopped Worshiping the Engineers in the way they wanted to be Worshiped and Mankind were behaving in ways that went against the intended purpose for Mankind.... we was showing Rebelion.

I think the movie could have been leading us to them Fearing this... because this is exactly what they had done with their Creators.... and so we see similar to Cronus against his Father, Zeus against Cronus and then Zeus fears of the same fate in Greek Mythos.

But i think they are going to tone it down a bit more.... make it more simple...

As far as to destroy Mankind, well we cant be 100% Sure, Ridley hinted that Mankind had upset the Engineers, but there could be other factors too.... Fear that Mankind has Rebelled and could eventually replace them at the Top of the Hierarchy?

The movie does not show us that the Xenomorph was meant for us.... it could have been and it could have been created from the Goo we dont know....  but what the Black Goo showed was a Mutagen that would Mutate and Evolve Life into something else... that has Xeno DNA......  Sometimes to Create one must first Destroy....

So in that sense it was a failed Experiment and they wished to replace us with something else.. like a Kid who is bored of his Lego Creation and wants to knock it down to build something else.  It could maybe go that simple.

I think they will merge both those reasons into the real reason for our intended Destruction/Upgrade.

I just dont think they are going to go into any detail at all about connections to Ancient cultures.... they may show us Themes that when we look at them we can Go... oh i can kind of see how that may vaguely connect to Ancient Mankind Myths and Religons..

So that these Myths and Fables and Religons are just handed down and changed over time accounts of something else related at a Early Time that Mankind Interpreted as and so Stories had a similar theme but they all differed a little. Like Chinese Whispers.

But they will show us only the main Theme that these Chinese Whispers came from.

At least i hope so.

Big Dave: If we (mankind) stopped having Engineers as Gods they might have felt that they began to loose power so they got mad at mankind. Basically the Engineers were like angry kids that don’t get 100% of other people’s attention.

The black goo was sort of interesting maybe they could have elaborated on that a bit more and give more explanation to it. I sort of understood it after a while after I had watched the movie many times. Maybe the scarabs (Spaight’s idea) would have been easier to understand, I don’t know but then you can also wonder where the scarabs come from so maybe that answer isn’t 100% good either. When you look at it this way it sort of becomes like Shaw said “So who made them?”

The Xeno could have been meant for anyone that the Engineers felt were threats to them. Maybe mankind was a part of this but maybe they thought about other life forms also on other planets. Remember that this is sci-fi so they can come up with different ideas. On interesting idea is what else kind of life form that could be threats to the Engineers. In the real universe there are also parts that we don’t know about that can possibly contain life maybe not as here on earth. Maybe I am drifting too far away in my thoughts here.

As far as myths and so on go maybe not all that watch the movie are that interested in that. They also need to keep this in mind when they are doing the movie. I wasn’t that interested in the myths when I watched it I was interested in the Xeno/monsters and then the Engineers. Sure you can put some of that in the movie but don’t expect that to be the main reason why people go and watch it so to speak.

Alien Covenant has a lot that could be put into it so it could be more than just a Xeno movie at hopefully but somewhere they got to put a limit on how much ideas they will show us.

Ok i managed to get a bit of information earlier from the source but its not much...

They are not willing to spill any beans really as they said it appears that the movie despite change of direction a bit is still touching upon some themes/plot from the Prometheus 2 aka Paradise Lost/Paradise Pandemonium.

They touched upon how it may seem like a few things have been toned down and some elements left out to make a story that ties back more to the reason for doing a Alien Prequel and that was the Origins of the Cargo and Space Jockey... as opposed to going to deep with the Space Jockey and a whole agenda and story about their race.

They claim they dont know what the draft is like for Alien Covenant but clues so far seem to be that some elements are going to be explored from earlier draft.  They just said that maybe they are not going to be going in to much detail as it was starting to side track from the Alien Universe where as seems Alien Covenant is trying to cover those aspects more.

They picked up on some points.. mentioned again the Draft of October 2014 was loosely based on tying in Paradise Lost/Biblical connections and Greek Mythos, but its loosely as in the way Prometheus did. But the main thing was Creation, Rebellion and forbidden knowledge and how the in correct use leads to disaster and also about punishment and that the themes of Creation/Creator Rebellion run on multiple levels and that connections in the Bible/Greek Mythos and Sumerian and others Ancient religions all have similar themes to creation and rebellion and punishment and we should not look at teh Biblical ones as Literal or that it applied to Mankind as foretold in he bible and that there was generations of creation prior to Mankind.

They said while Alien Covenant did seem to be stepping away from the route Prometheus 2 was taking it has maybe not totally forgone it all, and while they have no information on the draft of John Logan the movie does seem to be touching up on those points.

They said the movie is bypassing a time frame and that this time frame did hold a important part of the puzzle but its if we would have gone past these important 7 years until where now Alien Covenant is set. Or if we will get some idea of what happened in the movie as it seems odd to bypass such a Plot Element.

They said that it would be interesting to see if future movie would address such gaps... but it seems we are going to a time after TWO PLOT points.

They said that the Draft they had information on while connecting with Biblical, Greek and many other Mythos it was basicaly covering the whole layers of creation, and reason for Mankinds and forbiden knowledge and rebelion against God, and overthrowing of Hierarchy and Punishment.  They said the draft would have had a very Matrix and Blade Runner feel, and themes...  they even said Prometheus even followed themes from Blade Runner as far as the ideas within that Franchise.

They said that Fire and Stone has gave clues to elements but to comment would spoil them but there is a Easter Egg, as far as one of the main characters but this is not to be taken as Canon but if they explained what it was it would drop a big Plot, but they said while the Fire and Stone should not be considered cannon, somethings are what could happen as far as interaction with the Goo and LV-223 but they cant speak anymore about that... but that it would in a way connect a few franchises. They said the main protagonist who becomes antagonist then redemption is a clue.

And that actually Redemption plays a part in the October Draft, and it is something that has happened a few times in context of the Franchise connection... a Covenant so to speak.

They said that its a shame that maybe we dont see much of the company Agenda from the Synopsis and hopefully future movies will cover it, and that we have to remember Weyland is a company who are trying to Monopolise so to speak and they wish to gain there hands on any Technology that can advance their own Company be that Alien Origin and Earth and that indeed Yutani was one company who was consumed by Weyland but they are not alone.

As far as the Goo, they said it would be interesting to see how Alien Covenant covers it, and that it is essential a Forbiden Fire intended for only Gods.... and those who seak it could become as Gods but usually get burnt, either by their own actions or punishment from God.

They said the Goo is a Powerful Tool of Creation, but they mentioned it is such a tool that while it has GREAT Scope for Creation if used wrong or without Caution it can lead to Destruction..... and Chaos.

They said like the movie THE FLY the Teleporter essentially is a Tool that can re-create DNA and Molecules, It breaks down DNA etc and then re-assembles it and its purpose if for a GREATER CAUSE.... but as with that Movie... it only takes ONE MISTAKE for Undesired Consequences.

They cant speak of how Alien Covenant would cover such things... but they said the Synopsis seemed to miss important Plot Points as far as TWO MAIN ONES...  But that it seems Flash Backs are being used, and so maybe Elements will be told as per Greens Draft...

They claim still that it would be interesting if we are going to see the Space Jockey Story told, because this was something that did not have to be told to get the A-Z of the Event covered.... they said that hints was in Prometheus and these would have been explored but that yes, the event is related to LV-223 and Paradise and Conflict and Redemption and it was a event that happened Thousands of Years ago and it was not a Human or Android as far as Modern Mankind goes.

They closed by saying the Draft of 2014 had connections to Matrix and Blade Runner themes but not to look at literal copy...  they said that Paradise Lost fits but only if you give it the Prometheus Twist, throw in some Giger and then your left with a Matrix/Bladerunner so to speak.  They said something about Sin being a big part and that for the Xeno their needed Sin but to look at in in context with Paradise Lost.

They said as far as Alien Covenant, the movie seemed to push us down a path that was different to the ideas they had but the Draft of 2014 had bigger cast needed, and new images from Covenant kind of explains some of the need for larger cast.  They said it fits pretty much with the whole Mythos and our Engineers are related to Mankind and other Generations but are by no means God, and the Hierarchy above them are not God.. but there is a God so to speak.

They said the Synopsis seemed to indicate no Engineers when the Engineers and whole Evolution played a massive role in the original idea but they wander now if the Alien Covenant will meet THE ENGINEER as they put it, and they did say as with Prometheus most related beings would have been played by normal sized folk like in Prometheus (Sacrificial Scene) but LV-223 Encounters where played by Ian Whyte and Lebar... and that they was looking at Local Cast when planning Production for the Draft of October 2014 that possible candidates was Conan Stevens and Nathan Jones but it would be interesting to see if we meet any Big Bad Asses in Alien Covenant.   But it seems they may be bypassing a time frame where some important events 25 years prior to Alien may not be shown...  and just leave us some 18 years prior.
They said as time goes on, it would be interesting to see how much is used from Paglen/Green Drafts and if what is not used would be covered in the sequel!

 

Oh i forgot as far as the Xeno they said something like that with knowledge it can be REPLICATED 

I had earlier information that i was going to post in March but could not access the site.... here is what i can best remember of that... but i mentioned some of the below throughout some posts over the last few weeks.

In February they just said that Blade Runner and Matrix theme and Plot are very similar and if you took everything that those two movies had in connection with Prometheus, Greek Mythos, Bible and Paradise Lost and stripped away the rest... then you would have seen a connection.

But there are other elements within Blade Runner, and Matrix that are kind of similar to what Prometheus 2 was going to cover...  and some of these elements where mildly covered in Fire and Stone.

They said that the Movie seems to be changing the direction and bit but it would be interesting to see why things are not covered or so the Plot Synopsis and Recent as of March 2016 are mentioned.... They said it seems a lot of stuff would be cut out or bypassed but they cant understand why or how...

And how Prometheus 2 had a much larger cast for its scenes and now Alien Covenant seems to be about a small crew of a Covenant ship that finds David all alone...

He said hopefully there is more to it than that...

They said that Rebellion, Punishment are key elements on multiple levels... and how this fits in with Paradise Lost themes but also what Prometheus Mythos covers and also Matrix and Blade Runner both link to the various levels of creation and rebellion in Prometheus.

They said that Mankind as far as in Alien timeline should be seen as 4th or 5th Generation, and the Engineers played a role in creation but they are also subject to similar Evolution and that as with David we see a range of David models, each trying to upgrade and improve on the failings of the last but at the end... Evolution ends up creating something more evolved than intended and rebellious and that then its a case of Destroy and Start again...

And that the Gods of the Prometheus Universe have done this over and over, and we are not the first Generation to face potential extinction due to not conforming with the will of Creator....  it has happened to other Generations of Creation at the hands of the Hierarchy.

Few other details that i forgot about, and i cant quite remember but will put if they pop back in... but these was the things they covered in Feb which i was trying to put on in March but i could not access the site and thats why i have not contributed until recently again.

Oh yeah...

Back in March it was also said that the Hierarchy above the Engineers and Mankind not only possess powerful Tool of Creation that can lead to destruction if misused...

But they have knowledge to not only create life, but also Worlds, and Make Worlds Habitable and that this Knowledge Tool, likewise is Powerful and yet Destructive if its not used correctly...

They said Weylands Motto was Building Better Worlds and indeed this Knowledge would certainly fit in more with the companies Agenda than the Bio-Weapon Xenomorph.

This is one thing i forgot to mention in previous post.

@BG many thanks for all the time and trouble you have put into this update. I think for me I have hit a point where I would love to see some images, even movement but I do not want any plot points.

I think the two plot points leap frogged are Shaw and "The Engineer" and that will be dealt with by deduction, exposition and or flash back now. Those elements will be more of a mystery to be explained rather than part of the narrative. 

I hope there are three points you mentioned are in the mix :-

"The Engineer"

The protagonist , antagonist redemption character.

The arc of the Space Jockey and the answers from the past not the A - Z.  

I am very taken with your comparison with the Black Goo and the machine in the fly. Accidents have unintended consequences.

Thanks Big Dave for the posts, it probably took a while to write it all down.

First I would like to say that it is good that they keep some things from Prometheus for this movie or else it would feel like Prometheus was done for nothing. I think that they could make it work but they really got to think before they do something so it won’t be half-baked like Prometheus was.

It is good that they are trying to go back to why they did an Alien prequel namely about the Space Jockey and the cargo. At the same time I think that they should keep some of the Engineer’s agenda since it is connected to the Xenomorph. My general wish about it is: more about the Xeno and how it ties to the Engineers and the Derelict but keep some mystery about the monster so it will still be interesting. The Engineers could be expanded on since they are connected to the Xeno. Hopefully we will see more about how they create different monsters since the Xeno is interesting but my impression is that they are responsible for other creatures also.

Hopefully the answer about the monster won’t be spoon fed so to speak even though I have heard that Ridley Scott will try to answer why they made it. I hope that they will try to remember why the Xeno was interesting in the first place - because it was unknown. They should keep things sort of unknown so we can continue to discuss the Xeno while still giving Some answers (not all). For example we don’t need to know at what temperature the acid freezes, LOL! 

For example: let’s say that the Xeno is made from substance X. They could show us the substance but let it be unknown where that substance comes from so we could discuss that. This is one example of how you can answer the creation of the Xeno but still have some mystery about it.

The Matrix is a movie that I enjoy so it will be interesting to see how they borrow from that. To borrow from obviously isn’t to make a copy of it.

You mentioned how the goo breaks down molecules and DNA, that seems interesting, almost like Zombie movies. I hope that it won’t be Zombies in it though because that would be lame (remember the Fifield monster that was used, eww).

As far as the company goes I am not that interested in it. It could be as a side note but that isn’t what I am interested in because we already know that it is greedy and so on.

I wonder what it will be that evolved more than it was intended to, as far as the Davids go.

You mentioned that the hierarchy above the Engineers use things to create that could be dangerous if it will be misused. This seems like it could be a machine or weapon of some sort. I can not imagine what that could be but would be interesting. This almost seems like it could be the creator of the Engineers but I wonder what that would be.

Well Michelle its a case of not taking any of this as Factual, i tend to comment only on things from the movies, but will also explore other sources that are out which include drafts, comics and comments made by people behind the movies.

But i have from time to time used comments from the Source to add to a current debate if i feel maybe some ideas or even clues are relative and kind of match what the source was saying.....

So its still one of those take with a pinch of salt as i dont know the source only someone who claims to have spoken to the source, but some interesting things have seemed to matched up...

One thing also was they had said Production was on hold but pre-production and fleshing out ideas on paper based on the Draft of October 2014 and these things was being worked on in February 2015 on wards, but Ridley has other commitments and so Production was set to begin around Fall of 2015 and  especially expect news to start to flow as of November....

This was in March 2015 and then indeed Fall 2015 was when more information came out and November Officially when we knew we had the Green Light on the movie.

However we soon saw Alien Paradise Lost change to Alien Covenant and a new writer John Logan had came on the scene to re-write the draft no long before major production...  But i guess Production could have been set prior to re-write if the re-write is to change certain things, then production on others could continue.  The same happened with Prometheus... Lindeloff was brought in after Pre-Production had began and even Props being worked on, its why a lot of concept work was based on Spaights Draft.

Other things that was said that then was kind of backed up by news comming out months after... one thing was the source first leaked stuff at a time when Ridley was saying No More Gods and Dragons and the Beast is Cooked and no Xenos, and movie would be stepping away from Alien.... The source said well to their knowledge the final draft was October 2014 and it was indeed very Gods, and it had not only ONE Alien... but TWO Kinds....   Then months later Ridley backed this up.

But Michelle i will attempt to discus a few things you mentioned.

"The Engineer"

The protagonist , antagonist redemption character.

Yes was interesting they said The Engineer, but then they said they was going to cast not Ian Whyte but either a Conan Stevens and/or Nathan Jones but it was very ambigious to if this was casting of One Engineer or more, but they did seem to highlight it in a way that Prometheus cast Two main Actors for our LV-223 Engineers who were about 7ft Actors, and yet the Scenes where there is no Human-Engineer Interaction they used normal sized Actors... i.e Elders and Sacrificial Engineer.

which to mean maybe seems, they could imply that we could see Engineers or Related being played by normal sized Actors and i wander if those scenes of Death from the Set was maybe one of those... but we have to remember we dont know if the source is TRUE.. and also if it is then the information may be different to Alien Covenant in a way that Prometheus is to Spaights draft.

But then the notion of using a 7ft Actor or a few maybe? could be for Scenes where David maybe meets Engineers? and Shaw?

The FLY Teleporter...

The person who spoke to the source said that it seemed when they mentioned this point it seems like they was pushing a clue...

We know the Teleportation device break down the Genetic Material of Scientist Seth Brundle  thats sent to the other device to be reassembled....  The Sacrificial Scene did kind how show the Engineers DNA etc breaking down.... then reforming again..

And so maybe the something went wrong comment was in how the device ended up being used in a way not intended, well a Fly got inside and we saw the result was a Hybrid of Fly/Human.

is this a hint at maybe what went wrong on LV-223 or maybe what created the Xeno?  Was it a accidental contamination then?

Spaights draft had Nano Scarabs, that a Engineer Sacrificed himself with to allow them to spread his DNA to infect a Primate to create Mankind....   Latter we see what ever the Scarabs in the Urns had taken its DNA from was connected to Xeno DNA.

So we could ask, if Spaights draft the Engineer used the Scarabs to pass his DNA to create Mankind from a Primate.. i guess it only takes a few loose scarabs to had escaped without ingesting Engineer DNA and instead consume DNA of something less favorable, lets say a Scorpion and then we could end up with Primate/Scorpion Hybrid which would not have been intended from the Sacrificial Scene.

The protagonist , antagonist redemption character.

I forgot to mention this.... yes interesting and if true then who knows, could we be talking about Shaw? i doubt it as the source claimed back before anything was said about Official Sequel... that Shaw played a small role, she was incapacitated and technically not dead though.

Maybe its a Engineer? The Space Jockey? but then when they said Fire and Stone...

To me the Android well Synthetic Construct Elden as Fire and Stone had Human Characters...  but to me it was Elden who started Benevolent, then became Malevolent and then Benevolent again..  But then maybe it can be the Predator lol

So to me maybe this is a hint at David, that he indeed is the The protagonist to antagonist then redemption character?

If the source is correct and not fake...

Then yes it would be interesting to see some things in the movie, but also i guess we can see reason for somethings being left out... the same applies to all the comments Ridley made about the movie prior to Alien Covenant.

i am not sure what is meant by Two Plots that are bypassed? Maybe the mean as far as how the Alien Covenant Synopsis was leading too.

Which taking into account comments the Source made over all,  and also basis for the sequel and Ridleys comments..

It could see that these are Two Elements the movie seemed it was having..

1) David and Shaw, what they get up to their journey and what they find... as far as on Paradise...

2)Engineers, maybe as far as whats left on Paradise, but maybe also as far as Flash Back Plot showing some of the History, the Fall of the Engineers etc.

If this is correct, then maybe the 3rd Plot was about the Company and Another Mission, i think this Plot is what has been Evolved to Alien Covenant and so maybe this Plot has had the Spaights/Lindeloff treatment...  and in addition they are omitting one Plot that is Shaw and David.. for the most part... and then Tone down the Engineers Scenes maybe like how Spaights to Lindeloff the Xeno scenes where toned down?

As far as Dangerous Knowledge, yes we are shown bits about the Creation with the Goo but the source hints the Engineers have a method to Create and Teraform Worlds too... well the Hierarchy do and that again this is a tool that is devastating if used wrong.

The Source did ages ago kind of hint to something bigger than Galactic Space Genetic Engineers and that their is a Force above all, and how we are talking more than Galactic but Universal as far as Agenda at the Top and Power/Knowledge...

Which means more than Bald Tall Humanoids using the Goo to create life.....  Low and behold months after Ridley pondered similar Questions... implying indeed their is a Big Guy in all this..

As far as what method of creation of Worlds who knows, if we look at a Science point of view Worlds are created from the death of stars and forming of dust, and matter from these things (Nebula) to then form new Stars and Worlds....

A Super Nova can lead to Billions of years latter New Star Systems...  but also Black Holes that are Destroyers as opposed to creators..

And so i wander if the Engineers or who ever is above them... have a role in this.... and thus the " Sometimes to create one must first destroy" does not only apply to Life, but to Worlds/Stars too.?

@BD However "true" your source, and on a personal note I appreciate you not coming over all "I have an exclusive", it all fits with what Ridley has said and the actual official synopsis. What we definitely know is that Prometheus was meant to spawn a tangental series of films moving away from the pre occupations of the Alien series. What we are now receiving, which ironically was the original intention, is a series of pre equal movies which reverse engineer and make "sense" of what we see "later".

To refocus around the origins of :-

1) The Zenomorph.

2) The merged Weyland Yutani.

and learn more about the Space Jockey and "its" race the Engineers makes sense. 

What we definitely know from the investment in Prometheus is :-

1) How Peter Weyland fitted into the story. 

2) The Engineers suffered a fall and are tied into the creation of the Zenomorph.

In Covenant both elements of Part 2 will be answered and it will be through a story which looks more like a classic A L I E N series story.

For the likes of you and I and probably many here our concern is an ALIEN fan service movie. We know the Zeno will sell this film to the broader audience and avoid any confusion that Prometheus suffered outside of dedicated fans but what we do not want is a lot of shallow fan service. Riffing images is fine but the story of David and Daniels and Co needs to feel new and exciting as well as include fascinating revelations and world building in the same way Prom provided, that is something I think Thoughts and Dreams is looking for.

Michael and Katherine are interesting actors and with John Logan involved I am cautiously optimistic that we will get a balance between the big audience troping and an insightful thoughtful addition. However I do expect the early marketing to offer a lot of riffing to attract the attention of the bigger market. Already everything said and offered echoes the original A L I E N series.       

Sooo any moderators here? I cant log into the prometheus site for a few weeks now only here on sci fied can you sort it for me? thanks.

Yes it seems a change of direction Michelle, Alien Engineers started as a more legit prequel, but then Fox seemed interested in the backbone story they now had about the Space Jockey/Engineers and felt the Emphasis should be on them and Weyland as opposed to the Xenomorph which we have seen to death, and only dont have its Origins...

So Lindeloff came in to tone down Xeno Elements and change things so the movie would be separate yet connected to Alien, but taking away the Alien Prefix so fans dont get too confused and they was setting this movie up to explore the new Back Bone Story of the Engineer/Space Jockey while provide clues to the Xeno connection.

This left a movie that general public would not see as a Alien movie, and those who saw it may have made no connection or did not understand it... the Alien fanbase was split some liked it, others felt it did a disservice and they expected to see Xenomorphs and How, When and Why.

They expected a Alien Prequel and got a movie that was not Alien when Alien had more to it than Ripley and the Xeno, we had the Space Jockey and the Company and it seemed this is where Prometheus was trying to explore...

And further movies to cover these more...

But alas, some would rather had seen Xeno Origin movie, and then with Blomkamps Alien 5 ideas this seemed to be giving those Fans more of a Xeno fix and a chance of a Aliens sequel that fans wanted as some was disappointed with Alien 3 and Alien R

Fox must have seen the general interest was more in the Xenomorph movie and so changes have been made.

The door is open to explore the Engineers, but i think it depends on the reaction of the next few movies... i think we would get Engineer hints but it would focus on the Xeno more, and then Alien 5 would do the same and drop Engineer hints... that leaves the door open to later cover Engineers in a spin off Franchise.

So indeed when we look at how the next movie was going as far as set up... and the sources comments....

The Change of Plot now (we dont know how much has changed however) has maybe gone to tone down some elements...

Weyland-Yutani Merger... is it needed as far as  the Story?  Maybe not.... maybe it would distract to much from covering the xenomorph....  this is where a Bonus DVD, Blu-Ray Bonus comes in.  The Weyland Viral Marketing gave us insight to Weyland company but not so Yutani as at the time of Prometheus Weyland was the Focus, and so additional DVD/Blu-ray content could give us back ground information on the Merger that fans can check out... but leave the movie to not go into too much detail.

The same is with the Engineers, DVD/Blu-ray Content can kind of link clues.. do like a Weyland-Yutani report on findings from Alien Covenant and Prometheus but leave some things a Mystery that leaves the door open for a movie to explore the Engineers.

And also by covering Weyland-Yutani as a bonus or report on DVD/Blu-ray extras... once the Alien Franchise is complete as far as Prequels....  Then Fox can explore and make a Weyland-Yutani movie that would cover other aspects of the companies and how they joined while only loosely connecting to Alien.

Well i was a on a subject but had Power Cut lol

Lets try and remember...

Indeed it seems that what the source was trying to sugest and Ridleys comments over the years was a movie that would explore Engineers and Weyland-Yutani but also the Xenomorph.

Now they are going for a Xenomorph aka Alien Prequel series we have to ask do they really need to make so many movies to answer that Question.

Ridley has said that after Alien Covenant we would get a sequel and then maybe a 3rd movie that would tell us the Space Jockey Story (this tells me we wont get a actual time frame spoon fed Space Jockey story over the next two movies, but that could change if Fox feels its Fan service the fans want).

So we are going to get 2-3 Alien Prequels about the Xenomorph and Why, When and How..  3 movies about the Xenomorph and its Origins, that leads to Alien?

We know we are going to get a Alien 5 and that now Newt is a part of this and will be passed the Torch to carry from Ripley.. which means if Alien 5 does well, then expect a Alien 6

So 2-3 Alien Prequels to get to Alien.

1-2 Alien*s sequels after....

How many movies devoted to the Xenomorph that has been done to death before?

Thats like what 3-6 hours devoted to get from after Prometheus to Alien, surely we dont need that many hours of Xenomorphs...  not when we could be looking at 1.5-4 hours of Xenomorphs in a Alien 5/6

So there has to be more covered than the Alien Xeno Bio-Weapon.... and i hope its not a set up for Ripley....  so there is hope that Engineers and Weyland can be explored more as i cant see 3-5 movies just about Xenomorphs really being helpful over the next 10 years.

@BD Your remarks about the number of movies needed to tell the story backing into the Space Jockey.

This for me is the biggest question mark of all, and of course we will not have the answer until next summer, but I am really struggling to see how you need any more than one movie after Covenant. If you take Benjamin Rigby's remark "Because there's an end result being the original Alien, it has to connect". this could mean allsorts of things we shall see.

Indeed....

The interesting thing is Ridley said after anounced Alien Paradise Lost was that there would be 2 movies, then we changed to Alien Covenant and he said again there would be 2 movies to Alien... but then they may do a 3rd to cover the Space Jockey Story

This to me maybe implies that we dont need a Space Jockey Story to find out how the Xenomorph came to be and once we have the Xenomorph answered then all the clues prior to that would allow us to know what happened to the Space Jockey anyway.

Ridley did mention what happened, 3 different times since Prometheus in 2012 and each on seemed to point to a event in the ancient past.... even going as far as saying a few thousand years ago.

Micheal Biehn said Alien Covenant was set thousands of years prior to Aliens, which the Synopsis seemed to not match.... but now we have those set photos it does look like some parts are set in the past...

The source did mention last time regarding the Xenomorph that  Provided you have the knowledge of its Origin then you can replicate it...

To me this could mean that we may not see the Xenomorph Origins but how it can Originate...

I guess its like if Prometheus never had the Scene of David infecting Holloways Drink.... or having sex with Shaw..

And we would be like HOW? WHAT! how did that thing come to grow in her...

Then if Alien Covenant we see David stick some Goo in a drink, and then that crewman has sex with a female and we see her get chestbusted with a Trilobite.. then we would then go.... AHHHHH thats how the Trilobite must have been made in Prometheus too.

So if the Xeno was created by a series of steps.... it only takes David to re-create those steps to make something very very related to the Xenomorph to allow us to see how the Xeno came to be.

Another thing overlooked is we could see the Original Xeno in a flash back scene, in the past.... and then have it where David then kind of re-creates the same or similar event to create something very close but new and fresh...

This why I like Goo versus Xeno.

Xeno: you need to facehug, then chestburst = XENO!

Goo: bloodstream = MONSTER!

With goo you can get on with it, bypass the romance and get to the baby!

Wonder what Holloway would have looked like if he had become full monster?

Fifield was acid scarred first...Wonder if he was full mature 'monster'?

And as bad as a chestburst is....In the 22nd century they might be able to save someone with a chestburst injury?

I think Kane could have been cry froze and probably had many of his organs re-grown/cloned and been good as new in a few surgeries? As long as your brain survives.

I think Goo infection is terminal?

Agreed the Goo would have been Terminal its interesting to see where they are going with it as we clearly see two different kinds but i have covered this before and if anyone reads Spaights Draft they would get all the answers they need by replacing Goo with Scarabs.

Indeed if someone is carrying a Chest Buster then it could be removed like Shaw with her Trilobite offspring.

If i refer to the source in regards of the Goo, they seem to claim that the draft of 2014 had it as a Forbidden Fruit intended for use by or by the guidance/command of only certain persons and that incorrect use can lead to disastrous consequences or even Punishment for essentially theft of Fire. But also that the Goo is the Catalyst for Life...

I dont know if they meant the Black Goo, the Sacrificial Goo or if its all the same lol