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The Engineers (Sub Creation)

The Engineers (Sub Creation)

3 Upvotes66 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
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BigDave

Jul-24-2019 9:35 AM

I know similar Topics have been Discussed before regarding out ENGINEERS.  Subjects that have brought up certain Questions about the Differences.

People Felt Disappointed with the Planet 4 Engineers and we had had many a Speculation about them surely NOT being Engineers.

Ridley Scott however had Confirmed they are INDEED our Engineers and he even went FURTHER!  He had claimed that those Engineers on Planet 4 were the Originals!

This surely Indicates that those Planet 4 Engineers or their Ancestors had Predated the Engineers we saw in Prometheus.  When discussing where the Next Movie could go, we had Ridley Scott mention it would be about AI and he referenced that Batty and Racheal (from Bladerunner) were AI which means he views Replicants as AI.

In this Context maybe his Revelation is that the Engineers in Prometheus are basically similar to those Planet 4 Engineers as Replicants are to Humans in Bladerunner.

A Enhanced, Sub-Created Species that are Created to Perform Certain Tasks.

Prometheus was our First introduction to the Engineers, a Technologically Advanced Humanoid Race who are indicated as playing a LARGE ROLE in the Creation/Evolution of Mankind.  Revealed to be Human looking to a Degree, but Physically Superior Looking with White Marbled Skin, they had a Enigma about them a almost Artificial Aesthetic (like a Ancient Marble Statue come to Life).

At the Time of Prometheus we did have our similar looking Elders who appeared to be Older more Frail Versions but as this SCENE is removed then we cant Assume this is what the Elders/Hierarchy would look like.

One Reason for this is that Ridley Scott did-not want to meet GOD in the First Movie, and that Dr Shaw and David would be off to the Planet of the Engineers to meet these beings who are NOT any God.. not in the Traditional Sense.

Alien Covenant takes us to what we can Assume is the Planet of the Engineers (Paradise) what we do see is a World where we meet Engineer looking inhabitants who do-not quite look the Same as our Prometheus Engineers, they appeared to be LESS Enigmatic MORE Human. (was this a Budget Restraint so less was spent on Cosmetic Effects).

The Revelation by Ridley Scott that these guys are the Originals does indicate there is a DIFFERENCE, and while our Planet 4 Engineers look more Human like a Hybrid we also see they have Females, and from Davids Notes/Drawings there was Infants... which means that these guys could Procreate.

The Earlier Concept/Idea that lead to Prometheus was the Engineers were a Ancient Race that had Genetically Engineered themselves to the point they LOST the ability to Procreate, which maybe could lead to Speculation that the Sacrificial Scene was a Project that could eventually allow them to Procreate Again.

Alien Covenant suggests this is NOT the case as far as our Planet 4 Engineers (could they have lost the ability a long time ago? and regained it?).  Ridley Scott had said the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization and he mentioned while there are Different Kinds of Human Races, why cant the same be for the Engineers.  

We could Speculate the Engineers Seed many Worlds with Humanoid Life and then maybe add the desired Results to their Genepool where only the Creations deemed a Success are added?  (thats just Speculation on my Part).

Back to the ORIGINALS comment....

This seems to imply this regarding the Prometheus and Alien Covenant Engineers, which i had speculated does this IMPLY the Enhanced (Übermensch) Engineers from Prometheus more like the Replicants in Bladerunner.

I would like to DRAW your attention to the one Image i posted with the Prometheus Sacrificial Engineer, we can see this ENGINEER lacks any NIPPLES.. could indicate they are not BORN in a Womb....

NOW cast your attention to the DRAWINGS by David and while NOT so HD resolution we can see that the Males and Females and Infants have NIPPLES it is likely these Planet 4 Engineers can Procreate by Natural Means.

This could indeed imply that our Prometheus Engineers are more in common with the Replicants and David (only Organic AI)

If this is the CASE, then it adds some Depth to the WHOLE PLOT and how to look at the Prometheus Mythos and other Mythos and indeed the FALLEN ANGELS remark that Ridley Scott seemed to Label those Prometheus Engineers with.

In Closing....

We could now be ASKING.... so WHICH of these Engineers Created us? and WHY?

Maybe there is YET a even Bigger Curveball to be Thrown!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

66 Responses to The Engineers (Sub Creation)

BigDave

Aug-31-2019 6:41 AM

The Concept from the START when Jon Spaights came in to work on a Prequel was while it would cover things related to the Xenomorph, it was to give us a Story we can Relate with to Introduce the Engineers.

Because as Jon Spaights had said... if your going to do a Prequel and we use the Space Jockey Race as the Skeleton of some Ancient Alien being then they may look a bit SILLY.  But then also how would Humans Interact with a Alien Species who dont speak the same Language.

So he felt the Space Jockey was Important, something you could Explore Deeper after you have Gave the Answers to ALIEN... but how to explore a ALIEN Species who surely would NOT be able to Communicate with us.

So he felt it was better to introduce the Space Jockey as a Space Suit, and the Occupants as Humanoids who played a Role in our Creation... so that you can then have a Plot that Connects to us, and where we could Communicate with them.

Even so.... HR Gigers Concepts clearly showed us Bald Humanoids in a Space Suit so its not like Jon Spaights was the First to Ponder such a Explanation.

So with Jon Spaights works it seemed to Start with them being the Gods... but they are NOT really Gods.

They are a Humanoid Race who maybe Evolved like we do in Real Life, they Advance past the Need for things we do today, they Advance past the need for Certain Culture and Religion and Evolve themselves to a Genetic Level of Advancement but also Socially in what they are Interested in, and eventually they abandon things like Relationships, Music, Art to a Degree... they Abandoned Sex and found other ways to Procreate..

UNTIL they had Evolved to Live for Thousands of Years and then Lost the Ability to Procreate Naturally.

Here is a Page from what Jon Spaights had done for FOX/RS as a Pitch to the Engineers.

This fitted with the Engineers and Elders from Prometheus.

But as things went by, to when we got Alien Covenant it seems the Engineers and their Role etc has Changed somewhat.

Could we get a Revelation the Hall of Heads represent a Older Species of Engineers who are more alike what Jon Spaights had Described in his Monologue to FOX/RS

Which Matches the Prometheus Engineers, but as those on Planet 4 are described as the Originals and so must Pre-Date the Prometheus Engineers... and so if the Hall of Heads are Engineers too they must Predate the Planet 4 Engineers and are likely more like those Engineers than the Prometheus ones..

But NONE of this is explained on Screen, its only from Comments by Ridley Scott and Chris Seagers... so things can be Changed!

By that have the Hall of Heads Elders as a more Ancient Advanced version, where some of those Sub-Created Planet 4 Engineers had decided to Evolve themselves to be like their Creators or Sub-Create something in the hope of Replicating their Creators.. The Hall of Heads Elders.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Nathan Adler

Aug-31-2019 11:46 PM

If David is to become the Space Jockey, and to end up oviposited, will the trick be him "not minding that it hurts"?

Nathan Adler

Sep-01-2019 3:57 AM

Creature prosthetics supervisor, Conor O'Sullivan refers to Ridley wanting the aspect of the naked Engineer to recall the characters of William Blake’s work, specifically William Blake’s rendition of Milton’s Satan, who is calling upon the other fallen angels to raise their parliament in Hell.

BigDave

Sep-01-2019 9:49 PM

Certainly it was the case that RS had implied the Engineers are Fallen Angels, it would be Interesting to WONDER of which Engineers are he referring to... the LV-223 Ones and all of them?  Or only a Number of them, or the Engineers in General.

For them to be Fallen... they either or and... would have had to had Rebelled against their Creators or Hierarchy/Leaders., had done things against what their Creators or Hierarchy/Leaders had intended.... or attempted to Corrupt/Change their Creators or Hierarchy/Leaders Creations and Plans..

IF the Intention was to show the Naked/Sacrificial Engineer as a Prometheus/Lucifer Figure then i cant see how this would apply, as he was just Following Orders, and its not like after his Death he could Influence us..

So in context to Fallen... then it must be the Actions of those who had Commanded that Engineer to Carry out that Act... who Committed a Fallen Action, or that from the Sacrifice lead to Creation that became Fallen. Be this becoming the LV-223 Engineers?

The only way that Engineer could Solely be considered to be Fallen by himself would be if he Remote Controlled the Ship that dropped him off and Performed this Action by his OWN for his own Agenda...  (we dont see the other Engineers in the Theatrical Cut, so that could be a way of looking at it).

I think when we consider Alien Covenant and Revelations that Ridley Scott and Chris Seagers had made regarding the Engineers,  then it could seem the Prometheus Type Engineers had committed the Role of Fallen Angels.

Regarding the Space Jockey and David... boy that would upset the FANS!... but i would NOT rule out that as the Climax of the Prequels... or ONE of his Creations.. so either HIM or ONE of his Creations becomes the Space Jockey as a Act of Hubris or Redemption....  we cant RULE that out!

I am sure such a Curve-ball like that would BUM most Fans out.... so they would rather have a Engineer be in that Seat!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michart

Jun-13-2020 9:34 AM

What about dating? what about the dilatation of time if they flew to the lV and 4 planets at speeds above the speed of light, how many years have passed on earth at that time? a few thousand or millions and if the harvest engineers were to arrive on earth 2000 years ago, if they had flown, they would have arrived in film time, not 2000 years ago. so if Prometheus took off then a dozen generations of people to earth will not get an answer from him or return to see their one man in life.

JohnyBlacks

Jul-03-2020 3:41 AM

I didn`t think that LV-223 is so popular lol

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