Comments (Page 107)

First i would like to Mention about the Pandemic, as indeed this has had a Effect on Movie Production and even Movies that are Complete in Terms of showing them at the BOX OFFICE it has caused Studios to DELAY their Movies and the Latest James Bond Movie is a Prime Example.  So Streaming or Purchase via Cable TV Provider could be the way to do things at Present.

HOWEVER... when it comes down to ALIEN Project then i think the Earliest we would see any such thing would be Fall 2021 and thats Unlikely and so IF they are going to Produce another Movie i think by the TIME its ready to hit the Screens the Pandemic should be Largely under control.

Regarding any Project we have had Ridley Scott come out and Confirm that a Project is in the Works but it is UNLIKELY to Connect/Continue with what the Prequels had done....  some had Jumped on this as that means Ridley Scott is involved in a NEW MOVIE but all it means is that DISNEY are working on a Movie they have Plans to make ONE but it will likely NOT continue with the Prequels or Connect to them.

Quite what DISNEY are planning we cant be SURE... i guess Time will tell... but they have a LOT of thinking to do (or NOT if its a Bring back Ripley) as they have to THINK about what went WRONG with the Prequels and WHAT can they do if they want another ALIEN Movie.

I am Concerned with how Disney would approach it and Fear for either a Complete Reboot... with a CGI Ripley, or a Bring back Ripley for a NEW would be Aliens Sequel and that it will be just like a Aliens meets Alien R but at a PG-13

The Problem i have with a bring back Ripley is you then ANCHOR the Franchise to be about HER... what do you do after a Alternative Alien 3, do they make a Trilogy with Ripley and if so do we Encounter the same kind of Xenomorph over and over...

You kind of would be at the Mercy of Miss Weaver then, because such a Projects would surely NEED you to cast her, even if its for Voice Overs...  Just because they may feel the Prequels have NOT worked out and that Dr Shaw and Daniels have NOT quite replaced the Beloved Ripley means you have to PANIC and go and Resort to bringing her back!

The other Concern when you are going to Reboot or Retcon stuff is it OPENS the Door to Disney basically just Rebooting and Retconing over and over and over every time something does-not go to PLAN.  (or maybe NOT as i feel if the Next 1-2 Movies are not Big Successes i feel they would ABANDON the Franchise Theatrically).

Personal opinions aside, Isolation is fine proof that a small intimantley scaled horror approach works. And horror is perhaps the only genre with box office and especially streaming appeal that isn't a damn super hero movie. An epic apocalyptic Alien story is best reserved for comics where they're quite common. I stand by my opinion that upping the scale, scope, and budget of Alien is not ideal for a franchise that hasn't been relevant at the box office since 1986. I've come to embrace the idea of smaller horror film sent to Hulu or elsewhere is a better idea. 

tbh, I never thought Isolation was scary. I find AvP2 more scary game. And this is a shooter, action game where you have a weapon and you kill aliens in large numbers.

I should have mentioned this over on my topic, but it seems as of today Noah Hawley is still talking about his would be FX series that was killed due to the fox purchase. So that's something...

As for your pitches...no thanks I'll pass. Those are so far removed from Alien I wonder why they'd exist in the first place. Like when Ridley planned on a Ripley movie minus the Alien. Those ideas remind me of the Star Trek reboots: movies purposely engineered for new audiences and new audiences only. I recall 2009 Star Trek's advertising tag went something like "This isn't your Dad's Star Trek". I don't understand the point of rebooting franchises with the intention of appealing to new comers, while alienating the old fan base almost on purpose. There needs to be a middle ground. You need to make sure you respect the old fan base while making sure something about it attracts new fans. This is something Disney's Star Wars sequels and the Star Trek reboots failed miserably at.

I doubt anyone over their 20s living in the 21st century will in any way be scared of the monster on the screen.

I believe Alien Isolation would like to disagree with you. The beast still has power to terrify. If Michael Myers and Pennywise still can after all these years then so can the Alien.

DK,

If I did not know better I would ask where is your time machine and at which studio do you work.

You must have been on the set of TENET when they were filming and overheard these plans for the Alien franchise.

It is reasonable to assume that it will be several years before real vaccines are available and that the theater experience is finished. However, this does not mean that they throw negative air pressure in the theaters and suddenly everyone is able to go back to them. This is also a possibility. You cannot breath something if the air flow is going straight up and never has a chance to land on you. Throw in some intense UVC lights for sterilization and every theater with the new protocols might be back in business.

Ozone generators are 100% effective at killing the virus as well...close the doors to the auditorium for 30 minutes. Then let the entire space fill with so many ppm of ozone and it is very clean of almost all pathogens. Kick on the negative air pressure and evacuate the ozone very quickly.

Never say never just yet is all I am saying. But I will agree as of right now it looks like streaming will win out anyway and that we should all prepare for the stream experience.

I am surprised by the lack of ingenuity here. We know practically nothing about the engineers. There are limitless possibilities about what, ultimately why, and what the new Alien Franchise could all be about in terms of plot.

I am definitely done with Mrs. Weaver....she had a great run. I want to see much bigger and better scarier things.

This lack of imagination is concerning. The right movies done creates an entirely new market again for these films. Maybe not at the level of profitability of DC/Marvel nonsense; but, real money that cannot be so easily ignored.

Yes a streaming pilot to test everything is the solid way to go during these uncertain financial times.

Personally when 100 inch OLED TV's are at about the 1200 price point I would never go to the theater again, even if it was more than safe. Theaters are loud, dirty, and uncivil in general. 

We also forget that outdoor theaters may see a golden revival...Never say never just yet.

Getting pretty deep in the weeds here and there are a lot of good points from everybody.

Personally, I would forget about the notion of the cinema. Streaming is the way to go. Not its fault, but it should be considered that the latest GvK movie is going straight to streaming pretty much due to our global situation. It doesn't seem practical to make a movie intended for the cinema right now imo.

Where do we go with the Alien franchise? Forward with a focus on Engineers, the Xenomorph, Synths or any combination. The history and mythos is baked in. It should push forward with the understanding that the viewer is aware of the history while making it palatable to new comers. Case in point- I love the original West World movie but never watched the series. I know people who watched the series but never saw the original movie. 

It's a risk financially, but they should give it a chance. A season of streaming would probably be less of a risk than a full on movie intended for the big screen that is shut down due to a pandemic. 

I think I would prefer retcon. Let Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection be dreams (nightmares). Let Ripley wake up from two nightmares as an old woman, still having night terrors from what she had experienced on the Nostromo and LV-426. As she dreams, we get flashbacks from Fiorina 161 and USM Auriga.

What occurred in Alien and Aliens is the real thing. LV-426 is where everything begins and the centre of the Alien Universe (although, of course, there is a background far beyond Calpamos). On LV-426 the mystery begins: the Derelict, the Space Jockey and the eggs.

Old, Ripley, Hicks, and Newt return (together with Colonial Marines and an android) to LV-426, perhaps to make sure there is nothing left. They investigate the ruins of Hadley’s Hope and the Derelict.

While we’re at it, why not retcon the prequels as well? Let the gang travel to LV-223 and find Shaw in hypersleep (dreaming about Planet 4). Beside her are the scattered remains of David, perhaps ripped to pieces by the Deacon?

Together they all start to investigate the other pyramids on LV-223. They find horrible truths from the past and they decide to nuke both LV-223 and LV-426. But . . .

@BlackAnt

You did Put me on the SPOT to Answer what would i do?

I would try and Renew the Franchise, i am not sure my IDEA would Please everyone though!

I have a rough idea, one that i could explore in Multiple Ways but the BASIC IDEA would be in the Future so maybe its After 2179 or maybe its Close to it?

But Certainly would be to a WORLD that is FAR away.

A World that is either Very Earth like to a degree, or maybe not so.... something that sits between a Planet 4 and LV-223.

A World that upon Close Inspection has a Buried Ancient City or at least a Few Buildings/Pyramids.

The Explorers will Discover some Bodies of Humanoids, and maybe some are TALL?  They Discover Ancient Ruins and Temples.

But this World would also have some Organism.... like a Spore a Egg something similar to what we see in ALIEN but a bit Different, we have the same Life Cycle.. so a Face Hugger but a bit Different, a BURSTER Stage and then Adult and again a bit Different but DONT steer to FAR away.

Maybe you can have another Organism, some other kind of Spore/Egg that lashes out at a Host and Directly Infects them (No Face Hugger) and maybe the Host has no Chest Burster but Mutates into a Horror?

So you have something or TWO things that Connect with ALIEN and Prometheus... you have it Ambiguous a bit so Fans are Drawn to conclude either.

1) This Place is maybe where the Progenitor to LV-223 and Xenomorph came from and that some Eggs/Spores had been taken away.

2)This Place is maybe where some Eggs had been deployed had the Creator of the Eggs in ALIEN made different Variants or had these Eggs/Spores on this WORLD had Evolved Different from a Initial Original Egg Infestation

3) This Place had been Bombarded by the Bio-Weapon (Black Goo) in the Past and Horrors remain...

You leave it so you cant Conclusively come to a Conclusion but where a Sequel can Provide the answers and Connection to LV-223/LV-426

The Survivors merely came Across a Unexpected Horror.... but the Aftermath you could see other Factions Alerted to Check it out.

Some Interesting Points....

Indeed when you have Loads of Special Effects and Explosions its something to SHOW OFF in a Trailer to get people to go WOW... COOL! and Hook them in!

I tried to watch AVATAR again and i could NOT get into it, and while it has a LOT of Special Effects some of it looks FAKE, not Natural and more like a Pixar Animation. It still looked like t Created a Interesting World and it did VERY WELL at the Box Office.

Prometheus i felt was Beautiful and Visually i felt the Disappointments were Weyland and Fifield Make Up/Effects.

I think Prometheus had done well due to Anticipation it had been so LONG since a ALIEN MOVIE and it seemed to indicate we are going to get some Answers...  The Trailers seemed to indicate there may be more ACTION than we actually got.  I think when we look at the Marketing and Ridley Scott comments then they HOOKED the Fans in to maybe Expect more than they GOT.

I think Alien Covenant was a Puzzle to how Poor it did, the Trailers seemed to Indicate Action and our Xenomorph back as well as the Neomorph, the Trailers did-not indicate that the Movie would be Mainly about David and that he Created the Xenomorph and that we would DISCOVER nothing much about the Engineers or see them.

So i think the Initial Box Office Numbers before Word of Mouth were LESS than i expected.

I think with the Predator those who kept a look out would have noted the Director saying they wanted to add some Humor, and we saw some GOOFY bits in the Trailers that could make Fans think OH DEAR!   And the Trailers did-not miss-lead as it was a GOOF-FEST!

Did the Reputation of the Director amount for the Disappointment, if they had someone else and the Trailer seemed more Serious and they SPENT more to bring in Schwarzenegger..... would it had done MUCH BETTER?

Sometimes maybe the Fans just are NOT as interested in some Franchises... we have seen some Reboots that FAILED to do well DESPITE not really being that BAD.... Robocop and Total Recall.... the Nostalgia was not enough to make as much $$$ as expected i think Fans just saw it as a CHANGE and REBOOT and so would not Accept it to be the Nostalgic Original.

So maybe you could think... BIG BUDGET on Effects, bring back RIPLEY and bring back Cameron as Director and we have a Sure HIT!

Thats NOT always the Case... and Terminator Dark Fate is a Great Example.... even though it had the Old Cast (Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger) and James Cameron involved.

It could be that the ALIEN Franchise is JUST not going to Generate enough of a Interest to make a 300% Return on the Budget.... 

If we do indeed get another ALIEN Movie then we may see this Proven... but Hopefully NOT... (be NICE to see a Success).

Seems to make MONEY at the Box Office is NOT as easy as before... you have Certain Franchises that seem to be able to RAKE IT IN..... but then others Fail!

It will be Interesting to see HOW WELL the Next Ghost Busters will do... or will it FLOP?   The same goes for say the New TOP GUN!

Time will TELL.

Back to the OT..

*The Prequel Continuation is Tricky as they have Written themselves into a Corner and have a Juggling Act to please the Fans and Rectify the Dislikes of Alien Covenant, and i think Fans would expect to see ONE Movie to get us to our Answers... so its just  RISKY Path to take.

*Bring back Ripley... i dont think you need to, because to do so you have to Remove some Movies as Dreams etc. If you PIN your Hopes on bringing Ripley back and maybe others then you kind of have all your Cards on the Table and if your ACE Card does-not work then you kind of BURY the Franchise.

*Reboot.... i dont think you need to go and like lets REMAKE the whole Franchise again...

So you have this SHIP with its EGG Cargo!

Do we stick with the IDEA that the Derelict is the ONLY one that had those Eggs or Similar, was it JUST the One Ship to carry out its Mission?  Putting ALL of your EGGS into ONE Basket?

Was LV-223 the ONLY such Outpost with such Horrors in the Galaxy?  If this is the CASE then has any of these Horrors been UNLEASHED on a World other than Planet 4?

What was the STARTING POINT to LV-223 and the Black Goo and how we see it can Create Organisms that have a Resemblance to the Xenomorph.....  where did this STARTING POINT come from?

So there are Avenues to take us....

I am NOT sure they would ever take us to any Place that is Connected to the Prequels... NO LV-223, No Planet 4 or Origae-6

I hope they have more IMAGINATION than to go and take us back to LV-426 and the Derelict Post 2179!  But such a Plot could WORK.... Certainly better than to REBOOT or RETCON anything.... aka ALIEN V

BlackAnt

Thinking over your words - the main fulcrum here is the director.

Cameron (Avatar, Aliens) is an excellent sc-fi director.

Shane black (The Predator) is, uh, well... director of comedies about cops?

Ridley is also good director, but he changes his mind unnecessarily often. If he doesn't like something, then he rewrites the material. But it often happens that the rewritten parts don't match the original ones. The result is porridge.

Continuing the conversation, what do you think - does the director's name influence the film's success? Not his skills and experience, but just his name? Could it be that the skills are good, but the viewer will say: "this director again? No thanks!"?

This topic is starting to make me want to drink again.

Let us all be rational and use our intellect of course.

So for example, the latest Predator movie had good special effects shots. Highly technical and showed promise. There was very interesting special effects that looked very real and you would think would entertain the audience. NO! the movie as a whole was a terrible commercial flop.

So we must know why, exactly why? These questions are numerous and complex. Where the characters interesting enough or could the audience relate to them....was the timing of the movie boring over all?

Example number two, Avatar, has Sigourney Weaver in it as non primary character; however, of note here, movie is highly technical in all aspects of every shot!!! Every part of the movie is new technical effects shot. Highest grossing movie of all time. 

So we need to find out why not enough fails....we know that enough of the right special effects make more than a billion....movie after movie with the right cast, action, special effects this is what audience craves.

So no more nonsense...we discuss this or not discuss this. 

The reason Prometheus was not more sucessful is because of some bad special effects, movie is not scary, it is for children, movie has bad plot, movie is waste of time for many viewers, and in my opinion the movie had to many rewrites with big budget cuts...the rest is history.

However, with Prometheus I still say certain parts of the film shot, directed through RS genius is something never scene before....example MAP ROOM! VERY GOOD!!!, The dream sequence very good! The engineer all very good! The holograph building new worlds, amazing. But over all the film was terrible. Still the film earns half a billion dollars. 

Once again Prometheus many sequential highly technical special effects shots....entire film is larger special effects shots...so bad story, bad plot, bad characters and other things killed more profitability.

No more lazy thinking here....the point is these are all new characters that have nothing to do with Mrs. Weaver....she gone out done...she had very good run...her time is over permanently....those days are gone.

Time to put on your big boy pants and think! What new characters will work....if James Chameron can do it with RS flunk out Mrs. Weaver and make highest grossing film then we are all missing most important points of conversation.

No more nonsense...we know what works. We know what does not work. So in no way do we repeat again what does not work no matter how tempting. We follow new template and move forward...always forward. 

I doubt anyone over their 20s living in the 21st century will in any way be scared of the monster on the screen.

If you don't want popcorn action - how about adventures? Something like cosmic Indiana Jones or Tomb Rider.

Elizabeth Shaw and the cursed egg.

David: The mystery of the land of the Gods.

Ripley and the biomchanical kingdom.

My rant there is precisely why I created this topic lol. Taking Alien to streaming, be it movie or series, can allow for smaller weirder and darker stories to exist. I quite like what little Noah Hawley was able to tell us about his Alien series for FX. It was killed by Disney's Fox purchase.

Leto I'll continue to respectfully disagree. Going bigger and action packed doesn't guarantee success. Even Star Wars is having a hard time maintaining relevance, and were it not for The Mandalorian (probably the best Star Wars made in my almost 31 years) I'd say Star Wars would be dead. Alien isn't Star Wars levels of popular. It's just unwise to make a  large scale film when audiences will likely shrug it off and see Marvel, DC, or Fast and Furious. 

To justify making a big budget Alien Film, it'd have to make IT numbers (over $700 million world wide) or JOKER numbers (over a billion dollars).Both of those had $50 million budgets and Joker was quite the gamble and only ok'd by it's small for comic book movie budget,WB had no faith in this small character based approach. And IT Chapter 2 had a drastic drop from it's predecessor at the box office making about 300 million less. Those were two proven properties. Alien's box office days are behind it. Again back on discord I was trying to tell some of those guys that Alien has always been more niche than anything after they said Covenant killed any box office for the series. While that's partially true...it's worth noting Alien 3, Resurrection, both AVP's and Prometheus were all considered financial disappointments as well. 

I'm going to use Terminator as my poster boy here. The past 4 films have all had huge budgets. Each film was less successful than the last. Dark Fate fell so hard at the box office that it guaranteed we won't see Terminator any time soon. Terminator has almost consistently been more successful than Alien and is dead now. Even what's considered the worst Terminator, Genisys, was more successful than the highest grossing Alien which is Prometheus. If we can't get audiences to see Terminator and even Star Wars...then a big budget Alien is an even harder sell.

My opinion is Alien goes smaller in the vein of Halloween 2018. It'd be Better for the series. Give audiences a reason to be scared again. If they want generic action they can go see Marvel or Fast and Furious.

Agreed with that dk. Alien is exhausted mostly. I'm probably among the few who enjoyed Covenant for what it was but admit it wasn't the best direction for the series.

@Hox

The Ass Burster!

Imagine it..... "oh i should not have had that Curry Last Night"    You have someone hearing noises from the Toilet, "are you ok in there?"  No Answer and they Break the Door Down as a Little Ass Buster then Pops out the LOO and Scurries Off lol

But on a Serious Note i think that YES we have seen Quite a LOT, especially if you look beyond the Movies.

Ridley Scott was Correct when he had said there is ONLY so much Face Hugging, Chest Bursting and Snarling you can do.  And he was AHEAD of the Curve with Prometheus.

But to take us away from a Comparable Horror to the Xenomorph, and to put the Emphasis on Creation and Rebellion and in Context to David was STEERING to FAR from ALIEN... but the Prequels was NOT supposed to be a ALIEN Franchise but a Spin Off.

Having seen the Franchise... if they had Continued with ALIEN V a Sequel to Alien R with Ripley 8 instead of making AVP then we have to ask WOULD IT have Changed things?

I think whats NEEDED is a ALIEN MOVIE and so you have to get back to some Basics... but also Change things a little.

When we look at the Franchise (Quadilogy) its the First Movie that had that Mystery and Enigma... but maybe in HINDSIGHT this is something that should have REMAINED a Mystery?

I think that Prometheus had opened up the Franchise... it just Needed to have and include something more Relatable to the Xenomorph but then also to EXPAND to something more Lovecraftian!

I think we can SET UP a Movie that can Expand back to those.  I think you DONT have to keep going back to LV-426 and i am NOT sure that going to LV-223 is wise in regards to Conflict.

There was a Horrific Nightmare on LV-426 and we know the Engineers had been Messing About with related Horrors on LV-223.

But does this mean such HORRORS only got as FAR as LV-426, LV-223 and Planet 4?  The Galaxy is Larger than the Radius from Earth the current Franchise was SET IN....

Regardless if its Generic Eggs, Alternative Eggs, Black Goo or WHAT did the Black Goo come from.....  thats a LOT of Cosmic Horror that does-not have to be Confined to like 40-50LY from Earth ;)

The Further into the Future, the Further we can Explore and the More Chance we STUMBLE upon something we should NOT have and the Chance we could AWAKEN something Very Old and Dangerous!

And NO that does-not have to be Generic Eggs!

I think this TOPIC proposes a Difficult Question as far as to WHERE do they Move Forward and WHAT to they offer us.

The Current Fanbase all have a LIST of what they like and DISLIKE, i think doing another MOVIE could be a Potential FOLLY because you are NOT going to please the Fanbase... not EVERYONE....

I think you have to TRY and find the Balance, offer something that has a bit of this and that, where you then Gauge the Box Office and Critical Response to see where you go NEXT.. but then this can be Interpreted Wrong for Example the events that lead to FOX deciding that they NEED to bring back the Xenomorph.

I know one thing...... The Next Project has to be a HIT or it could be the Final Nail in the Coffin of the Franchise.

DISNEY will be looking at WHAT they felt made the Franchise Great and what led to Disappointment... Sadly this may make them Conclude that Ripley, Xenomorphs with a Dash of Marines is the SAFE BET!

But this could just be the LAZY COP OUT approach and should something like this FAIL then its a case of WHAT NEXT?  I think it would be Curtains...

If this WORKS however, then would they Change it or do we get a Repetition on Offer and Relegate the Alien Franchise to a STARSHIP TROOPERS!

I am NOT so sure what would Work... you are going to Need to TRY and Please/Cater for as Many Fans as you can and also INTRODUCE a New Generation to the Franchise.

I think that we NEED to look back at the Franchise.... from the START...  ALIEN introduced us to something NEW, it was a Enigma and a Space Mystery for a Part but more a Space Horror.   (Prometheus was similar to a degree, more Mystery but Less Horror/Action.... simply PUT it lacked any Monster Attack Scenes that Connected to ALIEN... Toxic Avenger Fifield did not CUT IT).

So you maybe have a Horror/Mystery of Sorts.... a Exploration that Discovers a Horror!

You then FOLLOW this UP with a more ACTION response a Military expedition.  This is what ALIENS had done... and i feel its what a Prometheus Sequel needed... in a Military/Science Mission to LV-223 where HELL breaks loose.

It seemed that everyone was RUNNING out of Ideas... we had people who was NOT pleased with the Prequels and Certainly the SET UP and Revelations of Alien Covenant that any Sequel would be HARD to please..... and a Folly!

But seems the Alternative is Ripley and Xenomorphs and Queens are WHAT the Franchise has to be about... so we go and DO THAT!

But then WHAT?  You get Ripley, Eggs, Queens and Xenomorphs... throw in Hicks and some Marines... but then HOW MANY sequels can you Repeat this and if the FIRST foes not do well i think that its CURTAINS for the Franchise.

I think that we have to Remember that DISNEY are more likely to look at what would MAKE the $$$ and so trying something Different like the Prequels would be a BIG NO NO!

But i feel that going for either a BRING BACK RIPLEY... or a Gung Hoo Marines vs Aliens Flick would be Limiting but maybe thats the Fanbase they want... where you dont think you just SIT BACK and Enjoy the Ride and Effects and Action.

However this is maybe what DISNEY would see as the SAFE BET.... but IF this Fails then i see NO FUTURE in the Franchise unless its a REBOOT in 10-20 Years.

If it WORKS do they just Spew Out more of the same when we could END UP with a Franchise that has LESS to Offer than Starship Troopers or do we see Various Xenomorphs like those with WINGS, and Giant Behemoths and the like....   But then all we are getting is Starship Troopers with Xeno DNA!

To me what made ALIEN GREAT was the Unknown, the Mystery and Exploration that leads to Humans Facing a Threat they are NOT able to Cope with.  A lot of the Mystery had remained Unexplored in Sequels... but when this was Explored it did-not Please everyone.

What made ALIEN work and the Franchise as the BEAST.. the Xenomorph, its what made the Franchise Stand Out!

So you NEED the Beast Back... but you can Change it a bit but it has to be Relatable to the Original Fiend!

You also NEED some Action, but i think NOT go Overboard as you can leave that for a Sequel.

Of Course your going to NEED  Good Story and Execution with Good Characters and this is something that sometimes does-not go to PLAN.

I think ULTIMATELY your NOT going to get something that would Please Everyone....  you have to TRY and find the Balance...

To Continue with the Prequels i feel would be a RISK as its something that has UPSET i would say 50% of the Fanbase and i cant see them making 200% on the Investment.

To go and BRING BACK our Old Gang or just Ripley is a Lazy Cash Cow Cop out showing they have NO IDEA and Panic!   You see RIPLEY is Dead!  Unless they Continue with Ripley 8 but then i dont think that has much Interest as its not our Ripley!

I dont think the Franchise is DEAD... but you have to be Careful...

I think a  ANAKAINOSIS is Needed...

We need to Renew what made the Franchise Work, but also Renovation is Needed... sometimes Change is Scary but sometimes maybe its Necessary.

Evolution... Survival of the Fittest but to Survive things do Need to Change somewhat.

Head, of course. Directly through the skull.

We've seen a baby Alien burst out of someone's chest, someone's mouth and someone's back. There's only one place left to go. You know what I'm thinking :-)

The last movie fell flat. I would like to see Disney take a risk and go dark. Go back to the basics but without doing a re boot and lose the campy over the top humor. I doubt Disney has any real interest. They probably just like to own the rights and gloat while spewing out comic book hero action movie re treads.

ninXeno426

You are making two big logical mistakes:

1) you are looking from a fan's perspective. Most viewers are not fans, but just casual viewers. What is boring for you, can attract a lot of viewers.

2) games, comics, ect. - a fanservice for fans. This is additional material for those who love the franchise. The probability that a random player or reader interested in them - low. Thus, we return to point 1. For most viewers, there isn't any bored or worn out colonial marines or any other themes. All looks fresh.

On the contrary - guys with the smartguns versus scary monsters - sounds fun! Sounds like you would like to spend a weekend with your friends!

You have to understand that what bored the fan might be a breath of fresh air for the casual viewer.

I know for sure - for the franchise to live - the film must be commercially successful. To do this, you will have to make some concessions and possibly abandon odious experiments. Strong action film (more budget, more profit, more risk) or horror film (less budget, less profit, less risk) - this is definitely necessary to the franchise.

Of course, the ego will immediately make itself felt like: again aliens, again ovomorphs, queens, colonial marines, how much you can repeat it, etc.

But it is at this moment that you must gather your will into a fist and tell your ego - shut up!

And think about what's best for the survival of the franchise, not about satisfying a fleeting sense of novelty that will bury the franchise.

The film follows the old ideas, but provides franchise survival - good.

The film brings new ideas, but buries franchise - bad.

What is there to argue about - I do not understand. Everything is obvious.

P.S. In addition, commercial success will further provide a basis for experimentation.

BigDave,

Interesting questions indeed. I think you should be asking these questions more formally though with respect to the other complex issues that need to be resolved in order for Disney to move forward with an Alien production that will be commercially viable.

The first question that needs to be answered is for who would this new film be produced, who is the core audience?

The second question is going to get some of it's structure from the first answer. What is the plot of the new movie and why would Disney want to spend money on making a film to show this core audience this new film? Does this new film take money away from their other more profitable production currently in play?

Let's go back to the prequals for a moment. Some of the best science fiction I have ever seen in my life was in Prometheus and AC. I enjoyed parts of these films so much in fact that in my opinion they are modern master pieces. These few scenes transcend film and are in a new class of art by themselves.

This being said they are things we have typically not seen before in other films. New concepts were established.

These were expensive effects shots to produce and shoot. I do not believe they could have been made any other way.

Audiences are very fickle when it comes to what they find interesting on the big screen and are showing greater interest than ever before in specific types of science fiction. We know they like lots and lots of expensive effects shots mixed in with even bigger budget battle sequences.  

So if there is to be a future for the Alien franchise told through a new movie about the engineers...there better be very impressive never before seen special effects with some larger story ark of war and why that war is so important to the characters involved.

As far as the plot. This could be something simple and still be entertaining to audiences, good vs evil, depending on how much of a departure it is from the Alien universe as whole.

In other words they do not call this escapist entertainment for nothing. Ultimately though there needs to be characters that no matter how different they may be people can overtly relate to them on many levels.

I think this would be a good place for others to introduce some new ideas about plot, location, and what major characters would need to be in this new film for audiences to be entertained wanting much more.

You asked a very precise question; however, how you arrive at that precise answer depends on asking a much wider range of preliminary questions first and then understanding the necessity of what has worked in the past.

If you try something completely different and unrelatable then it will most certainly fail. Audiences are different than they were say 20 years ago because of advances in technology. They are more sophisticated and demand much more from the larger body of work in the genera that has already been produced. It takes a lot more to entertain them and keep them coming back.

As much as I would like to just give simple definitive answer that sums up something that would be commercially successful, we both know that would be impossible. I could just say something snarky, it better be a really good film. 

Here is a question for you. What is the film that you want to see most out of this franchise. This may not be the film that everyone else in a broader audience may want to see for obvious reasons when it comes down to what will actually work on screen. However, it is an important question because elements of what you are wanting to see may be useful core parts of a new plot that would ultimately be essential to a new movie being commercially profitable.

So let's have those elements then.....what do you think makes a Disney / Alien production successful in terms of plot, characters, and the rest of it?

Totally agree..... you run the RISK of Conflict if you go the WHOLE.... Invasion of Earth Plot!

It would be Interesting to see DISNEY go and make a R Rated Predator. I think to do it Justice you only need a UK Cert 15 and whatever the USA Equivalent would be.

Like the AVP Movie that is HARD enough to Pull Off a Predator Movie... just like Predators..... I felt that The Predator had some Interesting Ideas and Concepts.

The Execution was POOR... with some Silly Stuff!

The Pred Killer Suit... and also that the Cloak is Basically just a Little Ball are STUPID

The revelation of Genetically Engineered Super Predators and their Species going to Worlds to take Traits from Various Species and conduct Genetic Experiments are INTERESTING.

I do think that DISNEY could gain some Success with a REBOOT of the AVP Franchise and give us something more Closer to the Video Games..  i think that this could be WORTH a Punt!

Regarding the ALIEN Franchise i think that the PLOT of Prometheus had OPENED UP a lot of Potential... that Sadly i cant see that we would see again!

I think with RBW then all we are seeing are Easter Eggs and its in NO WAY to be Connected to the ALIEN Franchise.

Regarding the FATE/ORIGIN of the Space Jockey well with DISNEY now in Control this could be something that can be Changed... for example the Prequels Ignored!

Aesthetically and Scale wise then YES their are Differences between the Space Jockey and the Engineers in Prometheus.

This was a Deliberate Creative Decision... it was also something that would Cause some Ambiguity for Changes in the Future or to KEEP a Mystery.

If they wanted to it would NOT have been Impossible to gain a Agreement with the HR Giger Estate to give us a SHIP and Space Suit that matched what we saw in ALIEN.

At the Present the Space Jockey is OPEN for Debate it could have been Revealed as a Connected Race to the Engineers, and maybe either a OLDER or NEWER kind of Technology than what we saw in the Prequels.

It could even had been Revealed as either a Creation of Davids or even David himself.... but as we are UNLIKELY to get a Conclusion to the Prequels.. we may NEVER know the Space Jockey Identity and Event!

I do think within Context to the Franchise there is Room to Introduce another Species that are 12-15ft Tall... something that PREDATES our Engineers... maybe?

I think we Certainly can see the BLACK GOO is something that ADAPTS Life to its Environment.  And i feel that we see the same with the Xenomorph.

I think when we used to Speculate to where the Xenomorph had came from then Indeed i think MOST of us in the Past had Wondered exactly what the WORLD they came from would look like.  Or if you looked at them as a Engineered Weapon then we could still Speculate to WHAT a World that has been Overran and Invaded by the Species would like, Certainly after THOUSANDS of Years had Passed.

I think some of us had Envisioned what a Xenomorph Prime would look like.

I think Regardless of what we Consider Canon as FAR as the Origins of the Xenomorph, i dont think there is NO Reason we cant be Introduced to such a WORLD.

Regardless of what the Prequels could have Concluded, we still CANT GUARANTEE that the Derelict was the ONLY such Ship to have a Cargo of Eggs... there could have been more REGARDLESS of WHO/WHEN the Xenomorph was Created.

And EVEN if we throw out the Xenomorph then we still have the BLACK GOO....

*Was EVERY Compound on LV-223 carrying exactly the Same Substance?  Did they Vary a Little?

*Has the Bio-Weapon actually been UNLEASHED on another World both in the PAST or even POST the Prequels? 

We saw it Unleashed on Planet 4 but what about Worlds that had been Bombarded Thousands of Years ago... what KIND of a Environment/World have they EVOLVED to?

*Did the Black Goo come from some Organism? or was it a Creation Tool that was USED on some Organism that became the Basis of the LV-223 Horrors?

So there are Multiple Avenues to take us to a WORLD that has been Overtaken and Evolved for Thousands of Years by something Connected to the Xenomorph.

So to WHAT kind of Extent has a World been Changed/Evolved to allow for the SURVIVAL of such Horrific Organisms!

When it comes down to ALIENS then we do see the Xenomorph is Portrayed as a Organism that is Concerned with the SURVIVAL and SPREAD of its Species...  Each only a Individual Part of the Greater Hive where the Creation and Survival of the HIVE its its only Concern!

Regarding the Xenomorph getting to Earth,  i think it depends on HOW the Organism can Adapt and its Intelligence..

I think also WHERE and HOW MANY of them are Scattered around the World is Important.

As i DONT see the Xenomorph as a Great Threat.... not from what we have seen in the Franchise...  if its Contained then it can be Dealt with!

If something like the Organism had Invaded Earth say 100 Years ago and in Multiple Locations then YES it could eventually Overrun the Earth!

But within the Time-Line of ALIEN/ALIENS i think its something that could be Contained and Destroyed but it would NOT be Easy!

I think in Context to the Franchise then A.I and the Greed/Rivalry of Mankind are FAR more Greater Threats.

If the Xenomorph can ADAPT to become or cause a Hidden Enemy so like a Virus/Pathogen then YES it would be a MUCH Greater Threat!

Well one thing they have said so far is the new Predator will indeed be R rated, but just how R rated is the real question. The big apocalyptic scenarios is why I've rebelled against some of the guys on discord for their want of The Earth War trilogy to be adapted. Things don't need to be so damn big with a $200 million + budget. They also have a preference to see a Colonial Marine story to which I also said no. Aliens is my favorite movie...but there have been so many Marine centric stories in games, books, and comics that the idea just comes off as uninspired. But it's a highly likely route that Disney would follow.

Good to have you back, BigDave!

Yes, survival certainly is a major theme in the franchise. From the theory of evolution, we have the phrase: “survival of the fittest” (natural selection).

I like to look at the alien (the xenomorph) as a species (which is off-canon) that has adapted to the harsh environment of space. The home planet is probably a planet without air, cold and with poisonous fumes. For aeons, the xenomorph would have evolved in an extreme environment, and probably with other deadly species, into a survivor (“unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality”).

However, Ripley (a fragile human) defeats the alien despite its superiority in physical traits. Ripley (humans) has brains. But would mankind defeat xenomorphs if they infested Earth?

Also, there is the difference between individual and collective survival. In Aliens the survival of the xenomorph species is the essential thing, the xenomorphs controlled by the alien queen perhaps by hormones or telepathy?

So you see thats a VAST area to Expand to, where you may not be Restrained by the Franchise Limitations and Conflicts.

I think if we look at the Infinity War idea which you could wonder what was RS plans when he said WAR OF THE WORLDS...

I think the PROBLEM we Face is Respect and to NOT cause any Conflict with the Franchise... so it gets TRICKY to Pull Off depending on WHAT we class as Canon!

But i think if we look at the ALIEN Franchise beyond the Restraints of the Franchise and look at what Prometheus has OPENED UP then you DONT have to Contradict the Franchise.

STAR WARS is set in a Galaxy FAR FAR away and for all we know the Humans etc in that Franchise are speaking ENGLISH just for our Convenience!

Battle Star Galactic and Caprica show us that their are more Human Colonies in the Galaxy than Earth...

And so the PLOT of Prometheus does OPEN UP this as far as going to another Galaxy or a Distant Part of our Galaxy where you can have other HUMANS and Races and Engineers and CONFLICT.

The Ideas i had for Prometheus Sequels, one of them was to go where David and Dr Shaw go.... and they DID-NOT go to our Door Step.......

They went VERY FAR.... like 16'000+ Light Years away!  (Maybe 40'0000+)By the TIME they arrived then ALIEN had already Happened...

They Discovered Humans, Engineers and few other Species... i NEVER got to Finish it.... but the Aftermath and Anger caused by Davids Actions would have UPSET the Engineers...

At this POINT the Aftermath/Retribution would take Place in a Time-Line that is POST that of ALIENS, hey maybe even Alien Resurrection!

If you had Engineers etc coming to Earth say 2250-2350 then it would NOT go and Conflict the Franchise as much.... be better Still if its set say 2400+

Something like this remains a OPTION for them!

I think with Predator it has that KIDDY Friendly Cool Factor!

You can TONE DOWN the Blood/Guts from the Predator Franchise and still have the Uber Cool Hunters going around KICKING ASS and so it would FIT very much in line with the ACTION that you would see in a STAR WARS or the Marvel Universe.

With the Xenomorph then the GORE was kind of Part of the Parcel with the Beast.   If you took out the Chest Bursting and Toned down the Gore of the Killings, then you STRIP away a lot of the Xenomorph and leave NOT so much left.

This is maybe WHY they are going for a Predator Movie as they can TONE down the Gore and Blood so that they can PUSH it for 12-13 Year Olds and still make a Decent ACTION Flick.

I think DISNEY would look to Exploit the Market to get on board the 10-15 Year Olds for a Greater Market Share than to Restrict the Franchises to 15+

I think they also would Abandon any kind of Thought Provoking Elements, it would be about Effects, Action and Explosions.....

I think such Restrictions/Attitude does-not LIMIT the Predator Franchise as much as it would the ALIEN Franchise.

While it WONT be my Cup of Tea... i think what LETO has Suggested would be more likely how Disney would continue with a ALIEN Franchise... it would be more Marvel/Comic like than what a ALIEN or Prometheus was.

But its about what would make more $$$$ and Appeal to a Younger and Greater Numbers Generation... and the Comics and Video Games take on the Franchise (especially like AVP) is something that really Appeals and SELLS!

I think something of a Cosmic Horror with elements we see from Blade Runner and Prometheus with some Dark and Lovecraftian Themes are NOT the Direction that DISNEY would take.

I see maybe a ALIEN Franchise that would be aimed at the 13+ or 15 Year Olds and so a HARD R or Cert 18 is something i dont think the ALIEN Franchise would become...    a lot would be Sacrificed to DRIVE a Action and Special Effects FEST... that can be Marketed to a Generation of 12-18 Year Olds and OLDER rather than say a 15+

This could be the way to go.... as well i think if you showed the WHOLE Franchise to say 13-40 Year Olds in the General i think they would feel that Movies like ALIENS, and AVP and to a extent Alien R would appeal more... due to the Action Orientated Nature of them compared to say a Prometheus, Alien 3 and Alien Covenant.

I think Certainly when we look at the Xenomorph as a Killing Machine that is Engineered for Destruction be that by David or the Engineers.   Then that does change the SURVIVAL instincts of the Xenomorph to being merely a Engineered Killing Machine.

But what Prometheus had shown us Regardless is the Origin of the Xenomorph can Trace back to the Experiments that was being Carried out on LV-223 and the BLACK GOO.

The Pathogen that acts like a Mutagen that seems to Evolve and Change Organic Matter to become something with GREAT SURVIVAL INSTINCTS.

When we look at ALIEN then we get the Impression of a Hostile Organism that goes around KILLING all that it comes into contact with.  We have the EGGS where we had NO IDEA how these came to be but maybe could Speculate they was Engineered/Created.

The DC Version showed us the Egg Morph which then gives us CLUES to that the Xenomorph was trying to Procreate itself for Survival.  This Scene helps us to look at some other Scenes in a Totally Different Light.

With ALIENS and the Queen it again SHEDS a Different Light on the Organism and the Eggs, again leading us to view the Organism as something that has the Basic Instinct to go and Procreate and Survival of its Species.

With the Prequels we NEVER really got to see too much of this, we saw that Dr Shaw's Fetus was basically like a Face Hugger and the Fetus would look to Procreate by implanting the SEED of the Deacon.  But we NEVER got to see what becomes of the Deacon, could it Procreate?

This is something we could ASK about the Neomorph too!

The Hammerpedes i felt were interesting.... we have to Speculate to WHY it would invade the Mouth of Milburn?

I think the dialog gives some interesting CLUES as they wondered if the Hammerpede was a Girl or Boy.... well if those Worms are like many Worms on Earth then they are Hermaphrodites and a Worm requires another to MATE and the result would be that BOTH of the Worms would then have Fertilized Eggs.  If this could apply to the Hammerpedes then when Considering the Xenomorph Life Cycle it does let us SPECULATE about WHY it would invade the Throat of Milburn....  we saw TWO of the Hammerpedes together and so they could have MATED and so maybe they was looking to then IMPLANT its Seed/Egg into a Host?

This was a MISSED opportunity and something i covered in my Prometheus Edit...

If the BLACK GOO by its Nature can Pass on Traits of something that Shares Traits with the Neomorph, Xenomorph, Deacon..... then WHY NOT with the Hammerpedes if this TRAIT is to Survive and Procreate.

So there is room to see RELATED ORGANISM go and Evolve to Various ways to Procreate/Survive which is something that NEW Movies could Explore.

@BlackAnt

So SORRY to hear about that my thoughts are with you and so sorry for you Loss..

I think we have to look at the Silver Lining that Every Cloud has, by that i mean with LOSS we have Pain but we also have Memories but with LOSS it makes you Appreciate how SPECIAL a Gift that LIFE is.

The Pandemic has had a MASSIVE Impact on the World, in Terms of NOT just those who have Lost their Lives or Loved Ones, but also the Burden that Financially has impacted Lives and the Loss of Freedom and Things we took for Granted.

When and i do think IT will Pass, then Hopefully a lot of Businesses can Re-start and Grow and Financially people can regain some Security, but i think what will EFFECT us most of all is it will HOPEFULLY go and Unite us as a Race and we will APPRECIATE what we had before the Pandemic and also Appreciate the Gift of LIFE more.

I think the next Alien film should be like Infinity War. Furious Engineers attack the Earth with a pathogen and xenomorphs. Only a group of colonial marines can fight back. You can even connect the Predators - they will infiltrate the motherships of the Engineers and will fight the Queens! And at the end, the Space Jockey will arrive with a new biological weapon - ultramorphs. And only a squad of Autons can stop him. The film will also feature epic space battles with handreds of ships with lazers and rockets.

Its still on my radar. If listened to everyone I wouldn't like nearly as much as I do. I got a video in my Yt watch later about the apparent Alien connection to Raised by Wolves. Looks like something resembling a hammerpede appeared on the show

I only saw the first 2 or 3 episodes of RBW since it was free. I liked it. Lots of people dislike it seemingly due to the vibes of Alien and even BR. OK, Fine. I get it and feel it too, but I like what I saw when I viewed it as a stand alone show on it's own merits. Haters will hate. 

 I wanted to watch Raised By Wolves lol. But I did hear Ridley got really Ridley on it. Made me think back to a whole bunch of convo's here where everyone was rather upset that he abandoned his original Prometheus vision in Covenant. Made me think "I wonder what they make of this lol"...guess I got my answer.

Glad to be back, Thanks dk. I spend some time in Alien Theory's Discord server and a huge majority of that group want to see some of the old comics adapted, namely The Earth War trilogy. I keep saying nah that's kinda boring turning comics as old as me into a movie lol. But maybe a series off those wouldn't be a terrible idea? I still would prefer a fresh plot though. They're all pretty adamant that they don't want a retread of Alien, which I can't say I blame them because under Disney that's what Star Wars mostly turned out to be.