Comments (Page 124)
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I am done.
The dream is dead.
Bull shit and fuck that! I guess I can understand your reasons for calling it quits, but there are people who enjoy your writing. On the other hand, if you aren't feelin' it, maybe it's best to pull the plug. It's not like your livelihood depends on it and is a work of sheer passion. As a musician, I maybe can relate as I spent decades of time writing, creating, practicing, learning and spending a lot of money on gear to make music only a few people gave Luke warm claps to. And i never made one cent......but it made me appreciate music even more knowing the entire process while other dipshits think I am a snob- bad production there, kick drum not strong enough there, lousy rhythm tone, tired and trite formulaic lyrics over there, bad EQ and mixing/masterimg and on and on.
Hang in there. Take a break, re focus and continue. Do it for your own amusement. Even if few listen, there will be those interested to hear the story you want to tell.
I hope you are OK Sciefied Sister.
IF I can figure it out, I'll be posting my efforts on 'an archive of our own', a place devoited to fan-fiction.
I can't remember how to work with it, so I need to re-learn that. No big deal, but it'll give another point-of-access for everyone and might be where one can read and download without needing to use seperate links...I think.
Well, we'll see once I re-learn my way around it again.
I removed this post as it was just not-good and I am cleaning up the mess I made.
Sorry for the trouble, folks.
First I agree with your points about the franchise, and yeah Disney's famous Vault...
In the meantime I guess us Fandom folks will have to keep it alive...and as we all know, eventually, The Alien always escapes. ;)
I removed this reply of mine as it was entitely inappropriate for this forum, was hateful and I had very strong regerst in posting it.
Instead, I will say 'Thank-You' to you all for your words of support and encouragement to me while I try to get through a dark and frightening time in my life.
Thank-You for downloading my works!
YES, Big Dave's posts are Erpics and Sagas...but he does make some interesting and deep observations, like one of those really DEEP ocean submersibles.
Big Dave that is meant as a compliment, just to say.
When done, 'En-Route' and the Sequel will gat Links here, and ORIGIN will have the same.
In the meantime, I will post little 'appetizer' excerpts now and then. :D
Blackwinter-witch I downloaded yesterday The Lander and Manticore, just to be sure I have them for my next holiday. Didn't have a holiday in a long time and reading BigDave's long posts just takes almost all my limited free time.
I did not watch yet Raised by Wolves, but if Ridley Scott used some of the ideas he had for the Alien Covenant sequel it couldn't be that bad, hopefully.
If you could post the links to 'Out of the silent dark' and 'Origin' here like you did for the two mentioned above, I would be happy to read them.
Alien is not dead, unfortunately it is locked and starved in Disney's vault. We are here to keep him alive and, whether we like it or not, the success of Raised by Wolves could help in the making of an Alien tv series, where you could see some of your dreams put into action. Somebody from the House of the Mouse must be doing research in all fan fiction posted on internet, as they don't seem to have their own viable ideas yet, since Giler and Hill tried to bring back Ripley.
Don't give up on dreaming.
Like David said, "Nobody understands the lonely perfection of my dreams."
The sequel is going to be hopefully written sooner than I could otherwise manage on my own--we'll see, but it's looking promising!
I will be posting excerpts, as soon as I have one or two more that I think are 'appetizer' quality. :D
Given what was said during the release period of Prometheus in interviews by those close to the film I think we have a clear idea of what Scott and Lindelof's priorities were for the follow up.
It was essentially a search for answers that had been "pulled" from Prometheus. Damon talks in the commentary about the risk of doing this in case a further movie did not get made. You can cross-reference everyone's conversations and even things that Noomi said in interviews as long after as 2014.
It was essentially "If they made us, who made them.", why at the time of Christ did they want to destroy us and why philosophically were they annihilated and the revelation that we are a footnote.
Ridley, however, began to adjust the narrative reacting to the feedback of Prometheus and began talking about David (not Elizabeth) bringing hell and instead of characterising those whom they would find as Gods they simply become a bunch of aggressive antagonists.
I see that as the end of the grand ideas of Prometheus and a step by step march through Elizabeth as the vigilante to finally being a plot device.
I can see Ridley's dilemma on the screen. Very late on he invited Noomi down for a week to film what became the Crossing. He re elevated Elizabeth into the heroine dying of the Mutagen who heals David, which releases a new series of cognitive experiences for him and she passes into history in the backlit sarcophagus.
He then changed his mind again and places Elizabeth in the homage to Geiger as well as in the grave where presumably her body from the Crossing was intended to be laid.
Despite Damon's protestations that there were many scriptwriters who could follow him in, Prima Facie no one came up with a script that fitted the metrics.
My contention is when you have studied the strands of the storytelling carefully the themes and let go of the AVP franchise needs, that a genuine follow up was never made is entirely understandable. It was an admirable punt to try and say something fresh within a cooked franchise.
With the numerous problems in the Prometheus production, whether it was budget cuts, script problems, reshoots, and just about every other kind of problem you could imagine once you were that far into principle photography then I think it is hard to say where Prometheus should have gone after.
First the movie was doomed from the start. The fact that it has David taking an Alien ship to another world is just the most preposterous nonsense. No matter what Dr. Shaw said to him his programing would have been to secure the remaining site and wait for back up from WY until they arrived on LV-223.
The fact that this AI android goes against his programming and takes a ship to an Engineer world is such absolute nonsense…..although since the studios effectively wrecked RS movie Prometheus I think he returned the favor with a rouge AI David going to destroy an Engineer world.
Sometimes I really hate discussing this because it is frustrating to this day how wrong the studios were to cut budgets and demand rewrites of the plot.
@BD nothing against you at all…….I just do not care anymore where they go with the entire franchise any more…..we got some cool looking stuff out of this journey with RS but that is about it…..
We were supposed to get a new far more rich world to explore after Prometheus and instead we get David doing what he is not really programmed to do destroying some world somewhere……its all very vague nonsense a lot of it….frustrating really to no end….I just watch these movies now and really could care less about any of it….I want to make my own movies and explore my own ideas.
I will add there is a STORY to be Told from the Moment that Dr Shaw and David had LEFT the Outpost on LV-223 to when we saw Dr Shaw was Dead... A Tragic and Horrific Story. We Discovered that Dr Shaw had not DIED in the CRASH, and so HOW LONG she had Survived and WHAT Caused David to Eventually do what he DID?
It also seemed VERY LIKELY that some Engineers had Survived as we see David had Studied them and Experimented with them No Doubt. So MAYBE he could have tried to GET some Answers from them?
Anyway the ONLY reason i bring the ABOVE UP is that while there is a STORY/EVENT that Happened, to go and SHOW this on the BIG SCREEN would revolve around ONLY having David and Dr Shaw and a Handful of Weak/Emaciated Engineers.
And so Theatrically this may be a Problem and maybe in SOME PART for the Plot we have with Alien Covenant so that we can have more HUMANS come into Play.
I think back to the OT but in Context to the above Point.
Regarding where David and Dr Shaw were off too, then i would have maybe Suspected that Paradise could have been Different to WHAT we got. Paradise can mean a Number of Things.... depending on the Religion and Culture but they all have a Similar Concept.
It is a PLACE that only the WORTHY are Allowed.
It is also in some Religions the Birthplace of Civilization and so in that Context then MAN was Created in the Garden of Eden in Paradise before they were Expelled.
If the Engineers are playing the Role of GOD in Context to the Franchise and where the ONE Engineer had said he was From is what we could call Paradise. Then this WORLD could have been where say the Garden of Eden was, and the Cradle of Civilization and our Origins.
Some Religions and Cultures have Paradise as being the PLACE that the Righteous and Worthy Dead will Go when they Die....
HOWEVER... lets not get looking at it Literally as a Place where our Spirits would END UP... if we assume in Context to the Franchise that we HAVE NONE..... but that EVERY kind of Mythos and Religion has a ELEMENT of Truth, well some Basis which is from the Engineers.
If we look at the Garden of Eden and Creation because THIS seems to be the Main Point of the Prequels (CREATION) then the Biblical Account is that the Garden of Eden in Paradise is NOT where GOD comes from, or his ANGELS its the Place where WE WAS CREATED....
And so within that Context it could be a PLACE where a NUMBER of other Humanoids were Created.
And so it could have been a WORLD where there could have been a SMALLER Group of Engineers who are Tasked with WATCHING OVER this Paradise. And these Engineers could be the Cherubim
This World could then have a SMALL Population of Humans and other Humanoids who were DEEMED to be Worthy of Paradise, who the Engineers would have Collected, and indeed Christ could have been one of these Worthy Humans they had taken to Paradise to TEACH and then take back to Earth.
There could have been many Human Emissaries sent to Earth.
So in Context to the OT, and regarding AC as far as WHY they had to introduce more HUMANS. Then i cant see WHY they could have had PARADISE as a World that is FAR FAR from Earth.
On this Paradise we have some Engineers, but then a Number of other Species in NOT so Great Numbers and some of these would be HUMAN.
Imagine the Wonder on Dr Shaw's Face if she Discovers a World where Humans also had been Seeded, and then coming into Contact with other Humanoids the Engineers had Seeded.
Dr Shaw could get some Answers, maybe she be Welcomed... but then the Engineers will inform her about WHY the Earth was to be Destroyed and LV-223 and maybe there was a Conflict of Interest and those beings on Paradise then Decided to SABOTAGE the LV-223 Mission.
Leave the Earth to its OWN demise at our OWN hands.
The Engineers being so Naive that they THOUGHT that without the HELP of the Engineers we would NOT really Advance much more than we had 2000 Years ago and so they had NO FEAR we would EVER be able to Traverse Space.
By Virtue of Dr Shaw showing up with David and WHO he is, could Cause a Great Concern for the Engineers. There could be some WHO think she has to be Destroyed... and the Earth and maybe David does OVERHEAR this and tries to TELL her... but maybe she does-not Believe him.
She confronts a Engineer and asks.. and they tell her that they are GOING to Destroy the Earth as they CANT have us Traversing Space... and they also intend to SECURE the LV-223 Outpost (Maybe Destroy it)
The Council of Engineers then Determine that Dr Shaw could STAY but she would have to Denounce all she had learned in her Religion and other Influences from Earth and she must CONFORM to their Basic Way of Life (like the Amish) and Learn the Engineer Ways and OBEY their Rules as they CANT have any Foreign Influences on their Paradise of Different Species Living in Harmony!
They would claim that the Earth would be Washed Clean so it can be Started Anew in Future. They also Reveal to Dr Shaw that David will be Studied and then DESTROYED as he is a Abomination and their Creations are NOT meant to Create.
Only by Childbirth they are Permitted to Create Life.
How would THESE kinds of Revelations Effect Dr Shaw.. would she be OK with David being Destroyed, and the REST of Mankind on Earth?
Could they offer her a Bargaining Chip in Claiming that they could ALLOW her to Create Life herself and FIX the Reason she cant BARE CHILD.
Maybe she Discovers some Sinister Agenda to them too?
Is there a Sinister Agenda going on to WHY they Create?
Are the Worthy Races on Paradise merely here so the Engineers have a Genetic Stock to Populate Worlds with?
Then we come to DAVID... if he Discovers the Engineers Plans for him, then he WOULD surely want to STRIKE FIRST and this is when Paradise is Turned into HELL.
Dr Shaw and a Few others Survive/Saved by David... or maybe ONLY she does...
Paradise is LOST... Destroyed!
Dr Shaw was Hopeful she could CHANGE their Minds as FAR as to Destroy Earth.... David would inform her she would have been FOOLISH to Believe that.
She could be ANGRY at David for what he has DONE... he also has STOLEN the ONLY chance she has of having a Child as the Engineers were going to be able to HELP HER.
But we could have David suggest that he can Discover a way that she can have Children and they can START a NEW EDEN....
This is HOW i was kind of going to explore Paradise in 2013 when i was working on a Sequel Story to Prometheus.
But my Point is that they NEVER had to make Paradise so CLOSE to Earth so you can introduce more Humans....
There could be MANY more of us in the Galaxy that the Engineers had Seeded, or taken to these Worlds.
"Given that Elizabeth was our Proxy at the end of the movie the subsequent film would have been her story, not Davids."
I think that depends on Interpretation i think that the BIGGER theme they was going for would be CREATION and so WHY would the Engineers Create, and HOW was they Created.
Dr Shaw Certainly would be the ONE that should be the Proxy for us to get those Answers as so YES she should have remained as the Lead Protagonist.
I think we would have been in for a Hubristic Tale of Sub-Creation and i think this is where David would be our Proxy to that Hubris.....
So Dr Shaw would indeed be wanting to know WHO these would be GODS are, she wants to see for Herself if they are anything like what her FAITH would teach that a CREATOR would be like. She would want to know WHY we was Created and so much Time Invested in us to then just wish to DESTROY us. I would suspect that at the BACK of her Mind/Faith she maybe would NOT go and Accept those Engineers are our Creators.... surely there has to be something HIGHER and so WHO had Created them could be another thing that Dr Shaw wants to know.
Ridley Scott had painting the Picture that those Engineers are NOT the Gods, and they did-not want to MEET GOD in the First Movie, and as they are Referred to as Fallen/Dark Angels then maybe its likely they FIT within the Context of a Fallen Angel... so they Certainly are NOT the Hierarchy and so there has to be either another Faction of the Engineers or even a Creator to them.
Ridley Scott had said they (Dr Shaw and David) would go and MEET these beings on Paradise and these beings would NOT be Gods in the Traditional Sense and FAR from Benevolent.
That does-not look so GOOD for Dr Shaw as far as a Happy Ending and wishing to Discover some Benevolent Creator, and so its INTERESTING to see HOW these beings would FEEL about seeing Dr Shaw and what she WANTS.
However with David bringing HELL with him could indicate that he has something that can TURN the TIDE or Persuade the Engineers to Listen to Dr Shaw and so i think Davids Actions would have played a BIG ROLE in the Outcome of a Prometheus Sequel.
I think we should not go and Overlook our David as he is a Proxy to Creation and the Hubris of such... i think the Creation Themes could Continue with him.
He is FREE now (at the End of Prometheus) but he Needs our Dr Shaw to HELP him be put back in ONE PIECE so he can Fully Live this NEW Life he has been Given. How would he FEEL about Dr Shaw for Helping Him?
We have to Assume that Dr Shaw needs his HELP to Leave the Hell they are Stranded on. So she would have NO CHOICE to Reluctantly Repair him, SHE is bound to have Concerns but as RS said... David is Very Persuasive. The Interesting Dynamic on Offer here is seen in The Crossing.
I think David would have had a BIG ROLE because Ultimately he is the ONE who Holds all the Cards, he could GO and DO whatever he likes... But the SET-UP is that they would INDEED arrive at some Place Related to the Engineers.
With David being FREE and a Sentient Life-Form he would want to SURVIVE and i feel he would take a Risk Assessment at the Chances of HIS and Dr Shaws Survival and so i always was DRAWN to that David would indeed at some point UNLEASH HELL on the Inhabitants of the WORLD they would be OFF TOO.
However i Certainly dont think it would have Originally gone down like Alien Covenant i think at least there would have been some Interaction with some Engineers or other Related Beings and i think Dr Shaw would Certainly had played a Larger Role than just to be seen as a Corpse.
I think we had a OUTLINE to where Ridley Scott and Damian Lindeloff were Heading but Quite HOW much of this Changed during the First Run of Drafts before Micheal Green came on Board is something we have NO Real Knowledge of.
It would be Interesting to see some of the Earlier/Mid point work by Jack Paglen and then seen Micheal Greens reworking and see HOW much they Differ from the Dante Harper and John Logan version of the STORY.
It was a Wasted Opportunity for sure as Certainly a Character Arc for Dr Shaw could have given Noomi Rapace a better Character to work with.
I would say that YES we would see Walter Hill and David Giler have even more of a Influenced on this Project than the others they had BEFORE.
I think they have a IDEA that Disney are aware of as FAR as WHAT made the Alien Franchise Great and then WHAT started to make it Divisive and Disappoint.
And so i think that for 100% sure we will see Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection removed from Canon as Dreams and i Suspect the ALIEN V will IGNORE the Prequels.
Alien Covenant had taken a Route that MOST of the Fans were NOT a Fan of, and the Movie was Financially a BIG Disappointment for FOX.
It would seem that a Movie or TWO that would Continue with David and WHAT KIND of a World he would Create is something that i DONT feel Many would be Interested in Especially if it REVOLVES around him.
The David is the Creator of the Xenomorph is also something that REALLY BUGS a lot of the Fans too ;)
WHEN they was working on a Prequel i think a LOT of the Fans would have Expected it to give us something about WHERE the Xenomorph came from and WHO had made or Discovered them and WHEN and then WHY would they (Space Jockey) have those Eggs. You would also have expected to DISCOVER who the Space Jockey are.
Yes we saw Prometheus take a Different Approach which Raised other Questions that Fans would have wanted to see Answered and to see MORE of the Engineers and about them.
The Majority of the Fans would NOT have wanted to see a Movie that Centered around David and A.I Certainly NOT at the Sacrifice of the Engineers and other Characters.
So if they CHOOSE to Move Forwards with a Continuation i am NOT that sure that Fans would go and SEE it in Big Numbers unless they knew that DAVID would NOT be one of the BIG PARTS maybe like 3rd/4th Important Character and they would want to see the ENGINEERS make a Return.
And that its Revealed that David is NOT the Creator of the Xenomorph.......
But its HOW do you do this..... its maybe BEST to Offer another Sequel to Prometheus/Alien Covenant that does-not IGNORE those Movies but that does-not be about WHERE it is that David is going.
I think this would MAYBE attract more Fans?
Damn- what a busy bee! I read and enjoyed Perfect Organism and haven't gotten around to OLARKUS yet. Tough to keep up, but it's nice to see you are mushing on!
Another post I regeret replaced by a message of 'Thanks' to all of you for your words of support and encouragement.
That 'Blackout'...yeah, embarrassing, and I am really very sorry the forum had to be exposed to that 'side' me.
I am working on the tie-in short story between 1st story and Sequel, but I am relying more and more on the help of the person I might have to turn my works over to if things medically don't go too well.
I have a Chance...but it involves rolling the dice, and we'll see what happens.
I will be publishing some new works that link Blade Runner to A L I E N plausibly and smoothly.
I will be starting with a Vignette as the longer story will take a while, and I won't be writing it, merely acting as Consultant/Collaborator for all stories from now on due to my physical abilities becoming increasingly compromised.
But...soon...ish.
Given that Elizabeth was our Proxy at the end of the movie the subsequent film would have been her story, not Davids.
If you look back at the press from 2012 this was going to be a sequence of films were as Michael said Elizabeth was the heartbeat and he was the head. It was going to be her sequence.
She is in pole position as the film ended. The beating heart of the story is Elizabeth. But having the robot along had huge potential as expressed by Weyland in the Hologram speech.
What happened subsequently is Fassbender became the bigger star they lost Damon and Ridley went on a three-year search on how to make more money from the franchise believing the creature would produce the dollars.
Ridley did not believe in that and one can only see the scene where Michael is throwing stones at Billy as a satire.
If you watch the Hennessey Advert that's where Ridley's heart lies. Wonder, visual clues, questing not as Damon said in 2012, "stuff we have seen a thousand times before."
Looking at some Concept Work from Alien Covenant in more Detail i did NOTICE that the Earlier Concept had a VERY Early Mesopotamian Influence.
The Aesthetic of the One Concept as FAR as HOW these Humanoids appear is the SAME as some of the Early Mesopotamian Reliefs
The other Aesthetic is more Greek/Roman influenced but the WRITING is the same as on the Mesopotamian Reliefs
This TYPE of Cuneiform is Very Similar to what is ON the Sacrificial Bowl.
With the Removal of the Elders Scene in Prometheus because RS did-not want to MEET GOD in the First Movie.
Could they at ONE POINT and Pondered having the Hierarchy above the Engineers as being similar in Aesthetic to HOW the Ancient Mesopotamian's had depicted their GODS?
Our Engineers in Prometheus were maybe THUS.... The Igigi
"To me all those questions are answered in the movie."
To a degree then YES but it was a bit Vague for some Fans, who maybe NEED to have things Spoon Fed, the more you look at Prometheus, look at Alien Engineers for some Extra Information and read some of the Comments/Commentary then INDEED we have enough to get the PICTURE ;)
But then the SAME could be said with ALL that Dr Shaw had wanted to get Answered.
The things that are LEFT are the Creation Themes and Rebellion by Creation which i think is where the David Arc and WHAT he would do NEXT is something that would have Been Quite a Emphasis going Forwards regardless.
I think Ultimately then Prometheus needed to have TWO kinds of Sequel.
1) A return Mission to LV-223 thats more like Alien Engineers where we can get more Answers to LV-223 and Clues to the Xenomorph/LV-426 that SETS UP the Special Order 937.
Thus the Door to ALIEN is Closed.
2) We go where David and Dr Shaw are going where you NOW have more Freedom and do-not have to be Shackled down by ALIEN and can STEER AWAY from LV-426.
But ALAS....
"they perfected the creature immortalised in the Mural and bottled it"
That Certainly is HOW i see it, which is what Fundamentally what Alien Engineers showed more Clearly.
"As the Engineers of the Moon were rebels using stolen technology those on the Homeworld would not look favourably on what they did"
Certainly we have seen RS refer to the Engineers as False Gods, and Fallen Angels. And so this means their is another Faction of them (could be Numerous) and their is a Hierarchy above those Engineers and maybe their Creators are a LITTLE Different? Who knows...
With the PLOT of Fallen Angels if you would, then in that Context then PARADISE could be a WORLD that is FAR FAR from LV-223.....
We could even have explored if the Hierarchy of the Engineers or the None-Fallen versions had Created Mankind? Are they AWARE of what LV-223 is.
And so the Interesting Thing with a Prometheus 2 would be to WHOM it is that Dr Shaw would MEET and HOW they would view her.... do they KNOW who WE are?
So there are Many Ways they could have given us a Story that is NOT TIED down to being about LV-426 and Monsters.
What i was DRAWN to regarding the Engineers was that to me they seemed to be either.
1) A Faction of Engineers who had Encountered something they had NOT had a Role in Creating, and they SAW such Potential with this that they Experimented with it to EVOLVE/ENHANCE themselves. This lead to their FALL and becoming Demons/Monsters if you would. Which some may then see as the Next Stage of Evolution for Creation.
2) Those Engineers are a Sub-Creation who had a Specific Purpose and maybe could not Procreate themselves and so their ARC is the same as with David. They Rebel against their In-superior Creators and Attempt to Create something NEW.
"Or they can get out of the way of the prequel and tell a parallel Alien/Aliens story. This is the best way."
I think that YES you could go for another STORY within the ALIEN Franchise but then do you LEAVE the Xenomorph Origins a Mystery or do you TRY and give Evidence to suggest WHO had Created it?
The reason for this TOPIC is to look if there is a WAY to give another Movie that Ties to either Alien Covenant or Prometheus that WILL-NOT go and Follow where David goes.
The other Reason is that its SEEMS that DISNEY have NO IDEA on HOW to Continue with Alien Covenant, because of the RISK that Fans may-not be Interested in the Direction the Prequels were HEADING and the Emphasis on David.
Which could mean that DISNEY could either just IGNORE the Prequels, we dont get a Conclusion and the Xenomorph Origin is LEFT OPEN to Debate.
Or if the Alien V Project is about Dreams then they could put the Prequels down as a Dream and so they NEVER Happened.
But there are some GOOD things about the Prequels that should NOT just be Brushed under the Carpet.
"I prefer David-explorer over David-creator. In other words: David Lawrence is better than David Moreau"
David Arc does seem to FIT with David Moreau but we have to REMEMBER who the Original Moreau/Frankenstein are!
You see the Engineers are Genetic Engineers, but some of them had Conducted Horrific Experiments on LV-223 and we see with the MURAL that they HELD those Experiments in HIGH REGARD... the Black Goo and what it could Create, more so in Regards to Horrors that are Connected to the Xenomorph DNA.
We have seen the Hammerpedes, the Trilobite and Dr Shaw's Deacon, its likely the Engineers had a Similar Deacon in the PAST... we saw the Neomorph and all those Experiments that David had Conducted... its likely the Engineers had done Similar in the PAST.
And so were those Engineers pleased with their Horrors their Deacon?
What would they make of Davids Creation the Protomorph if you would?
so its OPEN for them to have it the Engineers Discover what David had DONE and see the Potential in it and EVOLVE what David had done to get to the EGGS in ALIEN.
Thus David becomes the MIDDLE-MAN this may be the BEST of Both Worlds option.
"If they use something like time travel, where both - David and the Covenant went back in time and destroyed Planet 4"
With Planet 4 being so Close then YES you would assume that causes a Conflict with the Franchise... and so SURELY by the Time of ALIEN then LV-223 and Planet 4 have to be DESTROYED!
Unless RS would eventually had REMOVED all but ALIEN from Canon.
So to CONTINUE with the David the Middle-Man idea then we NEED the Engineers to take those Eggs from Planet 4 to LV-223 to Experiment, Evolve and Mass Produce them!
BUT something Happens... someone STOPS them and DESTROYS LV-223 but this Happens just as the DERELICT has Left LV-223... The DESTRUCTION of LV-223 could make a TEMPORARY TEAR in TIME/SPACE which then Drags the Derelict into it and Causes the Cargo to be Compromised and GETS to the Pilot who then ENDS UP on near by LV-426.
Conclusion Complete.... the Eggs are on LV-426 for Thousands of Years.... and Davids role is to BEGIN the Evolution of the Black Goo to the Protomorph, which the Engineers (or other Species) then EVOLVE to the Bio-Mechanical Horror we have in ALIEN.
Such a PLOT and Conclusion would NOT have to have David involved in anyway at all.... It would leave it so Eventually if Davids Story is Continued even if its in a NOVEL then he has Freedom to Create something ELSE and to NOT be Shackled to be Shoe-Horned to ALIEN.
This Pretty Much is the DIRECTION i would take.
" I don't see any future in David character, he's an irrelevant figure for me"
You are NOT alone with that, i actually like his STORY ARC only they could have had HIM go and Create Something Different and via HOW he did this we could gain more Clues to MAYBE how the Xenomorph was Created.
When the Prequel had Evolved to Prometheus with the REMOVAL of the Xenomorph and a SET-UP to STEER AWAY from ALIEN in a Sequel. The IDEA would have been a Separate Franchise within the same Universe to COVER the Engineers/Space Jockey and the Creation Themes.
Such a Sequel However (Prometheus 2) would have had to give just as MUCH about Humanity, Engineers than to be about David and A.I
Powers that BE had decided to U-Turn and give us Alien Covenant however, and i think for the MOST PART the Fans are wanting to see more of the ENGINEERS and LESS of David. I think that Ultimately they would also want a Revelation that HE DID NOT go and Create the Xenomorph.
As it STANDS then to get from David with the Covenant and Colonist and Embryo's (Human and Xenomorph) to then GET to Multiple Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict and introduce the Engineers and SOLVE the Space Jockey Mystery would NOT take a SINGLE MOVIE.
I would say to PULL off the PLOT and CONCLUDE it then we are a Good 4 Hours of Screen Time away from the CLIMAX. It would be likely a Majority of the First 2-3 Hours of this would be about David (and his Agenda/Arc) and so MANY Fans may not be Interested and so its kind of Dead in the Water.
Which is WHY i made this TOPIC so that we could look at if there is a WAY we can have a Continuation to the Prequels that would BY-PASS whatever David does or Goes and CONCLUDE or SHOW some SOLID Proof that David is NOT the Creator of the Xenomorph. (The MURAL is NOT any Proof).
>>>Do the Prequels Need a Conclusion?
Not necessary.
If they use something like time travel, where both - David and the Covenant went back in time and destroyed Planet 4, thus destroying LV-223 and all the engineers, and also creating the xenomorph in an ancient past. This is a good idea.
Or they can get out of the way of the prequel and tell a parallel Alien/Aliens story. This is the best way.
But If they're trying to fit the final prequel into the awkward and uncomfortable span of five minutes between AC and Alien, then, well, they have to really try to explain and chew all the inconsistencies. For the third time, they will not be able to create a clumsy story without explanation, and then try to explain everything in a pompous interview. What's the deal with interviews and comments? They are not part of the story on screen.
>>>Do the Prequels Need to Continue with David?
Yes. He is one of two central characters. The only one who stayed. If he disappears, then what's the point?
>>>Is the David as the Creator Arc a Bad Move?
While I find the David-creator idea interesting from a certain point of view, nevertheless, I prefer David-explorer over David-creator. In other words: David Lawrence is better than David Moreau.
*What was LV-223 about? was it always a Outpost to Create Horrific Bio-Weapons?
*What was the Origins of those Experiments, when did they START and WHY?
*What was the MURAL and FRESCO?
*What was the ALTAR and Crystal about?
*Where did the GOO/Black Goo come from?
*What is in the Other Complexes?
This is where I part company with the fanbase.
To me all those questions are answered in the movie. These Engineers are Promethean they stole technology and began experimenting with a religious questing fervour. After many experiments using themselves as Hosts (now that is interesting where does this hosting procreation come from) they perfected the creature immortalised in the Mural and bottled it.
However just as Weyland created for his own vain glorious purpose so had the Engineers of the Moon. Obviously when E & D reach Paradise the question of the relationship between the Moon and Paradise would be answered.
As the Engineers of the Moon were rebels using stolen technology those on the Homeworld would not look favourably on what they did. The implication of Damon's script is having stolen the technology and tried to use it, because it wasn't sanctioned "It got out" and turned on them. The philosophical failure of the Moon Engineers was expressed by what they created turning on them.
The philosophical failings of the mission had the same outcome but Elizabeth was given a second chance and survived.
As for the texture questions the Alter was altered to a Tomb to fit the dialogue and the Five Pyramids were dropped in late to give a more impressive sense of scale.
The average film goer has a more fundamental reason than the deep fan for being confused it is they went knowing it had the same DNA as ALIEN saw a craft hit the ground which looked suspiciously like the derelict but wasn't and saw a riff at the end which seemed to be related to the creature in the original film but did not know how and as to the search for our creators they were told by Elizabeth this place isn't what we thought it was but then to give that point context the only way to find was to watch the next movie. So lots of unsatisfactory puzzles for the casual film goer.
Incidentally these clarifications have nothing to do with my own personal interpretation some of my ideas contradict the above not for reasons of changing the myth but specific story telling purposes.
David woke in a beautiful stylised chair looks at the Nativity with the hole in the roof and a character pointing to Heaven and finally names himself after Michelangelo's beautiful sculpture the perfect embodiment of an aspirational transformational work created to be shared. Thats elliptical suggestive stroy telling which can be given significance and more so than might have been intended that however is different to saying what is the Moon all about.
The Moon is about why would you make monsters?
@Michelle
I think that Indeed at the TIME that Prometheus had been Released on DVD then Certainly they (RS/DL) had a IDEA of where they would TAKE US for the Sequel.
Which brings me to... "The problem with all that for the studios is it would have meant making a film without a hapless crew and monsters"
Which is No Doubt one of the Problems they FACED when trying to Complete a Story they could be HAPPY with. You have TWO of the Survivors from Prometheus of which ONLY the ONE is a Human, and they are OFF to where the Engineers come from, well whatever place they Determine the Last Engineer had referred to as PARADISE.
To have a Movie that would REVOLVE around just the TWO of those Survivors (Flash Backs/Dreams aside) is MAYBE something that NOT everyone would go to WATCH.
But they would NOT be ALONE as surely they would MEET some beings, Engineers? or some other Race? Surely Connected!
A Thought Provoking Story much like Blade Runner may have been CLOSER to where they Wanted to take us back in 2012. I think that the LAYERS of Creation and Associated Themes would have been Explored...
But i think a LOT of Fans were ONLY really interested in seeing the Engineers as Aggressive SOB's and they maybe would Expect the Engineers to be Portrayed as we saw in the COMICS.
And so the Journey of David and Dr Shaw would have HINGED on what KIND of beings they Discover and HOW they would React to David and Dr Shaw... if they are as Welcoming as the Last Engineer then the Movie would NOT be Long..... UNLESS they take to Experimenting on Dr Shaw etc.
But as i have said and what my IDEA for HOW they could have Continued the Story... and Introduce more Humans does-not have to BOIL down to incoming Humans from Earth. WHY CANT there be OTHERS in the Galaxy that the Engineers had SEEDED or taken from Earth...
Or DID we even come from Earth?
Another Avenue for the Sequel could have been about WHERE it is that David wishes to GO! As they said the Sacrificial Scene does-not have to be Earth.... And so i think WHERE it is that David takes Dr Shaw does-not have to be PARADISE.... he could go to another Place but then you have to THINK about WHY and WHERE.
I think when we are looking at a SEQUEL then in PART what may have been the Direction would be Questions that Dr Shaw had surely WANTED to be Answered... it was UNLIKELY that the Answers that she GOT are what she would HOPE for and so those Answers she gets could have a IMPACT on her Character Arc.
There are OTHER Questions left by Prometheus but these are Mainly ones that the FANS would want to see Answered, like...
*What was LV-223 about? was it always a Outpost to Create Horrific Bio-Weapons?
*What was the Origins of those Experiments, when did they START and WHY?
*What was the MURAL and FRESCO?
*What was the ALTAR and Crystal about?
*Where did the GOO/Black Goo come from?
*What is in the Other Complexes?
Maybe some of these could had been Answered? But maybe they could have been Answered in a Parallel Story about LV-223 so that David and Dr Shaw would be FREE to go on a Journey that does-not have to Answer the Mysteries of LV-223 that would TIE into the Xenomorph.
I think its NO WONDER they was having a HARD TIME to find the RIGHT STORY about where David and Dr Shaw go and WHAT they Discover.
Who knows HOW MUCH of the Story as Envisioned in 2012 had Remained by the time they got to 2015?
As Time goes on and EVEN in a Short Span of Time then Ideas can Change and Evolve, the Engineers Plot does allow for MANY MANY ways they could Expand on it.
I think its a REAL SHAME that we Ended up with Alien Covenant, and while some of the Themes/Arc of Prometheus is Carried Over via Davids Arc. SADLY a lot of what a Prometheus 2 could have been was Sacrificed.
If you want to consider where the sequel was heading you have to be certain of where you came from. The only way to achieve that is to ask Ridley and Damon what they were thinking in 2012.
An authentic sequel has to take account of the following.
“It’s a donation, in the sense that the weight and the construction of the DNA of those aliens is way beyond what we can possibly imagine.” Adding that the planet isn’t necessarily Earth, he says, “No, it doesn’t have to be. That could be anywhere. That could be a planet anywhere. All he’s doing is acting as a gardener in space. And the plant life, in fact, is the disintegration of him. If you parallel that idea with other sacrificial elements in history – which are clearly illustrated with the Mayans and the Incas – he would live for one year as a prince, and at the end of that year, he would be taken and donated to the gods.”
“The Passion Of The Christ” could also be viewed as part of the “Alien” universe…. if you really think about it…. Or, after that, the Engineers simply abandoned humanity, we evolved, and they got pissed all over again when we came knocking on their door. It fits in line with what Lindelof said during press rounds for the film: “I’m all for ambiguity, but if we didn’t know the answer to that one (ed The Christ Incident), the audience would have every right to string us up. Yes. There is an answer. One that is hinted at within the goalposts of ‘Prometheus.’ I’ll bet if I asked you to take a guess you wouldn’t be far off.”
And humanity was the offspring of some dark/rogue angels? That would seem to be the gist of it, and we guess that’s where a “Prometheus 2” would go if/when that should ever happen.
“Now ‘Prometheus’ is ready to go off in its own direction on its own entirely different tangent that is not going to be reliant on the things we’ve seen a thousand times before.”
The Story of Valhalla as expressed by David in the Prologue of AC
The Gods have rejected mankind as week cruel and filled with greed. So they are leaving the earth forever to their perfect home in the heavens. There every step is fraught with tragedy, and their power is an illusion. They are false God’s.
Elizabeth the person of faith, shaken, was going with David curious about what he was and put back together and responsive to Elizabeth were going to find that they were made by false (Promethean) Gods whose power is an illusion and what they sub create is the seed of their destruction.
The problem with all that for the studios is it would have meant making a film without a hapless crew and monsters which would have explored in a surreal and unorthodox way the questions raised by Bladerunner.
Regarding the Architecture i think looking at the PLOT then it would be that Ancient Structures on Earth are Influenced by the Engineers Designs.
The Engineer Complexes in Prometheus were more Basic than in Alien Covenant, its ONLY by going inside that those in Prometheus do reveal some Technology and Advancement in their Interior Construction.
The Cathedral in Alien Covenant was COLOSSAL
And so we did-not see much of the Inside of it, but then as a Place of Worship, a Building that is like a Parliament to them. Then maybe it does-not have too much of a Advanced Aesthetic.
Many Buildings in the City look more Modern compared to say Ancient Rome or Greece.
I think a Disappointment for Fans and this applies to Prometheus too is they would have Expected the WORLD of the Space Jockey to look VERY much like a HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.
But i think the KEY thing to Remember about PARADISE is that Especially if we look at the Biblical Context.
*It is NOT where GOD comes from!
*It is NOT where the Angels come from!
*It is the CRADLE of Creation (Humanoid)
*It is watched over by Cherubim Angels.
And so in Context to our Engineers who RS called Dark Angels and Fallen Angels then that means they are NOT the Gods. They could be the WATCHERS.
So when we was going to Prometheus 2 if these Engineers are NOT the GODS but a Sub-Creation and so like ANGELS if you would then you COULD introduce a Hierarchy above them that are 10-15ft Tall
PS they dont have to have Beards ;)
"Either make the Engineers its creators or someone above the Engineer that made the Xeno"
That was INDEED the Idea prior to the U-Turn and Curve-ball in Summer of 2015.
The Purpose of my Back to the Future Series is to essentially allow Fans to REBOOT certain Parts of the Prequels and so PART 2 means to REBOOT what essentially is Alien Covenant.
Its to look at what YOU wanted and WOULD have done with a Prometheus 2. The Set-Up for this ONE was mainly to look at WHERE it was that Dr Shaw and David would GO after they Left LV-223
And so when looking at a Alternative Prometheus 2 then you are FREE to go back to the Drawing Board with some Ideas.
David was Interesting from Prometheus, he was NOW FREE, we seemed to get the Indication that he was NOT treated VERY WELL by Mankind and so with Dr Shaw she could have Influenced the KIND of Person he could Become.
So there was that ARC that he could have come to be VERY FOND of Dr Shaw, and he would WANT to Protect her. So IF they arrive at a WORLD of the Engineers and he sees them go to Miss-Treat her or become a THREAT to Her, then i think He would SMITE THEM! to Protect Dr Shaw.
Dr Shaw was VERY Naive and Stubborn "its what i Choose to Believe" with her going to ASK some HARD Questions to the Engineers or WHOEVER they Discover we have to Wonder WHAT is she Hopping to Gain?
She is Obviously not pleased with the Engineers, they Certainly are NOT what she thought the GODS would be and well they are NOT GODS..... using her Faith then she cant FATHOM to WHY would a Godlike Race go and Create Mankind and Visit us, Teach and Nurture us and then WANT to Destroy us!
She had said that her GOD would never try and KILL her.... but in Reality then her GOD has KILLED before, when a GOD becomes Displeased and Angered then they SMITE!
So WAS she expecting to MEET some Benevolent Beings who would NOT want to Harm Mankind? Was she looking to Find something that FITS with her Religion about GOD?
So the Potential was there that Dr Shaw would make Discoveries that would SHATTER her Faith.... there is NO LOVING and ALMIGHTY GOD... These beings have Seeded other Worlds and to them we are about as Important as KEEPING a Fish Tank/Pond. And that the LOSS of a Pond/Tank means they have Plenty of more Fish in the Galaxy Sea, and they just CLEAN out some PONDS/TANKS and Start Again when they FEEL like it with NO real Concerns for the Fish.
So she could then see that these BEINGS are Selfish to their OWN gains and they Dont Respect the Life they Create, to THEM then their Creations are just as we would View David.... so she could then THINK about WHAT RIGHT do these beings have to CREATE various Species then to just DESTROY them at a WHIM!
So there was Potential for the Revelations that Dr Shaw has to MAKE her Faith a SHAM! and Reveal our Creators to have NO CARE for their Creations.... This could BREAK her!
She could maybe see that these Engineers have NO LOVE for their Creations like her Faiths God has for Mankind, and so maybe she takes some Positives from her Faith as far as to LOVE your Creation and DEEM as the Engineers do-not and they could be a THREAT to go around to Many Worlds and simply DESTROY without Pity...
She could maybe then decided its time to KILL this Wanna be Gods ;)
@Blackant
Regarding your IDEA i dont mean any Disrespect but it is something that is VERY Comic/Video Game. Which is NOT really a BAD thing as there would be a Market for such Ideas in the Fandom, and as a Movie its something that has NOT been done and so MAYBE it could work ;)
You see the Xenomorph is MAINLY known for its Incarnation from ALIENS. Its Purpose is just to SURVIVE and it is somewhat a Invasive Species like a RAT/MOUSE but also like a ANT/TERMITE.
DUMB BUGZ some may say.... but i have Defended the JC Xenomorphs in the Past as Showing signs of Intelligence for the ORIGINAL Versions (ALIEN) this Xenomorph just basically went around and KILLED its only the DC version that showed a Agenda to Procreate.
As much as this somewhat Intelligent Invasive Species are, i always thought you could NOT keep going back to that FORMULA before it gets STALE!
So you had to UPLIFT/EVOLVE the Xenomorph to CHANGE it be that a ENGINEERED UPGRADE or a EVOLUTIONARY ONE.
Because its ORIGINS appear to be just a Engineered Bio-Weapon that may have been Engineered from some Pre-existing Alien Species. The David as Creator Plot would allow more Room to explore that the Xenomorph was intended to be MORE than to just KILL etc.
So your PLOT seems to go for having the Xenomorph Evolve and Advance and to SHOW that we have Barely Scratched the Surface of this Organisms Intelligence.
And so i Applaud your Attempt to UPLIFT the Xenomorph, i Certainly think it could be Interesting and Especially if we look at it from a ENGINEERED UPGRADE.
If we looked at the NEW version of The Planet of the Apes then we see this was a HUBRIS of Mankind trying to Experiment with Apes.... i think it would be FITTING if we had Xenomorphs that were Captured and Experimented on and this Lead to a Xenomorph that would become more Inteligent and able to Re-Write its DNA so that it can Create Hybrids for Certain Tasks and THIS becomes a HUGE HUBRIS after a Outbreak and Escape by these Xenomorphs.
And they then SPREAD around the World.
I will add that i am NOT sure i ever came across when you had Mentioned this IDEA before. Its something that i Certainly think a Game/Comic could work with. And if its DONE RIGHT then it maybe could Work as a Movie, it Certainly could be something that would GAIN more Attention and Make Money $$$$ compared to Following on with where David is going NEXT.
@BlackAnt,
Help me, Daddy. Please. It hurts. Make it stop. Make it stop.
You might enjoy the original screenplay, lol.
To the OP- LOL- here we are a year later talking about it!
BlackAnt I thought your story ideas were sound enough. Lots of fans have good spin off stories that are better than their source material, so giving up might be premature.
The views on AVPR make sense and are generous. Yes, there were good ideas and some decent scenes, but as a whole, it's just not good enough to re-watch to see certain scenes imo. The actors themselves weren't bad yet I felt nothing for their characters. I think BigDave sort of nailed it- it was poorly written and executed.
It's too bad since AVP was a solid action scifi popcorn flick that I will re-watch for sheer entertainment.
"So before I critique this film property in all fairness"
I think that the PLOT was not BAD it was the Characters and Writing and Execution, there was some Interesting Ideas, its just the way the Story was Wrote and Executed was well.... bit Crap Really ;)
But for me the same is to be said with The Predator
I had tried to watch AVPR for a 4th Time but could not, and i had tried to watch The Predator for a 3rd and well i GAVE UP lol
"@DK
No Offense ever taken, Everyone is Entitled to their OWN opinions ;)"
I meant Thoughts_Dreams in response to "dont take this Personally" ;)
"Yes we saw the hall of heads but I don’t think that we saw more than that in Covenant "
I think that we should have seen more about the Engineers Certainly.
When your looking at ALIEN we had the Eggs, but this WAS NOT going to be the Focus on a Prequel (by the time we got Prometheus)
So then from ALIEN you had to then look at the Space Jockey, which our Engineers Plot had become and then we see the Experiments on LV-223 and so you would EXPECT a Sequel to show more about the Engineers and MAYBE about the Black Goo and Experiments.
We was also LEFT to Wonder.... WHY they Created us and wanted to DESTROY us..... but also WHY they was Messing About with all that STUFF on LV-223.
with Alien Covenant then all of this was just deemed NOT IMPORTANT... it was about the Themes through the EYES/ARC of DAVID.... which was too much, well it came at the Sacrifice of the Engineers.
" I'm trying to find a way why they didn't destroy all of humanity while having some interesting battle scenes. Sure it might cost some money but Star Wars usually gets it right"
I have said it a Number of Times, they could have had it that the ENGINEERS had NOT ONLY had Humans on Earth ;)
With a Large Galaxy, never mind OTHERS and with a PLOT where our Engineers have been around a LONG LONG Time, then we could have Explored them in a Place FAR FAR away where there are other Humans and other Races and Conflicts.
Sadly i think the Prequels and MOST of what they shown is DEAD i certainly cant see Disney going to Invest in that, and Certainly they WONT give us a Continuation to AC.
@DK
No Offense ever taken, Everyone is Entitled to their OWN opinions ;)
Regarding Blomkamp who knows what was his Agenda behind his LEAK... i guess a Guy has gotta do what he Gotta do to get some Business... i think he was NOT that Happy wit the Prequels? Who knows... we can only Speculate as to WHY he choose to Leak his Alien V
I have been around and SEEN the Disappointment with Prometheus as far as WHAT some Fans Expected, and lets all be HONEST for a Moment... I dont think MANY would have said that the PLOT was Quite what we Expected.
But i think some was Confused to WHAT it was that Actually Prometheus was trying to BE... the Trailers could be Misleading. But those who watched the Movie and knew more about it CERTAINLY had more Complaints than the Movie had NO CONNECTION to ALIEN or Xenomorphs.
Not EVERYONE chooses to say what they Feel on Websites like this or IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes.... I think that as a MOVIE then Prometheus indeed had more FLAWS than to SIMPLY not have any Xenomorphs.
I dont really Blame either Ridley Scott or Blomkamp, its those in POWER at FOX who had Decided to TAKE OUT the Xenomorph and Connections, and then to FORCE them back in.
The Characters and some of the Actions by them are REALLY not that GREAT ;)
Here is WHAT i felt went Wrong with Prometheus from a PLOT POV i found that the REMOVAL of the Xenomorph and Clues was FINE but they NEVER replaced it with something Similar, it was kept too VAGUE for Many and while some Mystery is Good for some Fans then you SHOULD NOT have to watch a Movie Multiple Times and look at Directors Comments and all SORTS to TRY and gain some better Understanding.
The Aftermath to Prometheus i think some of us GOT IT we had Accepted that we are likely to get SPIN OFF that would STEER AWAY from ALIEN and Xenomorphs.
I think for a Number of Fans the Sequel seemed to SET-UP that we are NOT going to get LV-426 Answers or Xenomorphs, but that we would be going to DISCOVERY more about the Engineers and their Agenda, and that Dr Shaw would be ASKING some Tough Questions for them.
Maybe some would have WANTED some Answers to LV-223 as there was LOT of Mystery there.
I DONT think that we would have Expected that Dr Shaw and the Engineers would have been Brushed Under the Carpet with the Emphasis NOW on the Xenomorph Creation but this ONLY being to Elevate the Creation Themes in Regards to DAVID.
Characters aside..... the Sequel had ENDED UP being about DAVID, the Xenomorph was 2nd Fiddle, the Engineers and Dr Shaw even LESS.... it was about DAVID... it was HIS PREQUEL Story.
Which is NOT what MOST of us would have Expected before we GOT to Prequel.
I had spend a LOT of Time on here and was AWARE of other Sites etc regarding the Prometheus Sequel... 2012-2013 its seemed they had a VISION which was to STEER AWAY from the Xenomorph but then they COULD-NOT really Settle on a Finished Story and it WENT QUIET.
At the Time of Blomkamps Alien V idea it did seem to get a LOT of Excitement, it was NICE for Fans to here and see some Works being made regarding another ALIEN Movie and especially with it QUIET on the Prometheus 2 Front.
Something had CAUSED FOX to think that they should Change P2 to become more a Direct Prequel and bring the Xenomorph back.... as far as DAVID the Creator Goes who REALLY knows 100% WHY this Curve-ball came about.
It was a UNNECESSARY PLOT Choice ;) One they surely SHOULD have known would cause a UPROAR... unless this was RS giving the Fans/Fox the Finger because he HAD to bring the Xenomorph back etc.
We are in PICKLE for Sure Now!
The SET-UP seems to be about WHAT it is that DAVID would do NEXT..... and then HOW we get to LV-426 which would surely NEED like 2 More Movies..... which would be MAINLY about DAVID and well i just dont think their is the INTEREST in that.
@Everyone
“Yeah, well...it's one of those films that had enormous raw potential...but just failed for many reasons.”
Great opening paragraph Blackwinter-witch. I think it is right here that I would most fervently disagree with almost every bad thing stated about this film.
Just a small synopsis….we get the predalien onboard the Predator ship, it crashes on Earth, a human city is exposed, a Predator on their home world is tasked with neutralizing the situation on Earth, a large battle ensues, and humanity is victorious in the end.
So before I critique this film properly in all fairness….please no backlash against me personally for my opinions….we are all here to discuss things alien, have fun, and foster a great community for everyone.
I went into this film with high expectations. The film went through it’s motions and I genuinely liked the film overall. I think the performances as a whole were decent, the special effects exceptional for their time, the plot was something that just interested me for personal reasons (will explain more about that later), there were many unique scenes in the film, we got a first introduction to the Predator home world, the fight sequences were enhanced with different modalities then previous films, and overall the film brought a Xeno to Earth.
The possibilities of a Xeno on Earth was both interesting conceptually and thematically for me.
For me personally I enjoy getting lost in all Alien films, even if there are only parts of the film that I like, because I like science fiction in film that much overall.
I agree the raw potential of this film as an uncut diamond the size of a fist was there…as the budget for this film, the plot, the production of the film cut away through its treatment of concepts made by RS originally, and many others, it failed to yield the finer more brilliant cut stone that we all wanted….
So much of this film however did resonate with me. I felt the tension for survival by the humans in this production to be real enough when faced with aliens much more powerful than them. I enjoyed their attempts to evade and escape an impending doom.
I also enjoyed very much the Colonel listening in on the jet then calling in the air strike.
I liked the pool scene very much where the Predator dissolved what was in the pool.
I was very impressed with the Predator home world and enjoyed the intricate articulation of the mechanized Predator chair and it's computers.
The hospital battle was intense, exciting, and visually exciting for me.
I especially enjoyed the Predator ship crash landing on Earth and the man and his son getting exposed.
For me obviously then I liked many parts of the film; however, overall I think the movie is ok. I still enjoy what strengths it has and will stick with that…in other words I would rather have it then not just because it is an Alien film.
Years prior I had written a small treatment set in on a future Earth, which was dismissed by other Alien forum contributors, that was not well received.
Here is a quick synopsis of that treatment. There is a future Earth where resources are exhausted battling an ever growing global Xeno infestation. We are down to last remaining military outposts around the world and free humans are on the verge of extinction.
Inside large new Xeno cities we would see never seen before complex Xeno behavior and battle tactics on a global scale…..the Xenos build large city sized hives where humans are cultivated as a food source ….more than one hundred years have passed since they over took the planet….so they breed and harvest humans for food throughout these global system of hives…..they secrete a range of molecules that when ingested by humans causes them to reproduce….they take the babies and harvest them, then separating the babies from the human breeders….and harvest us by the millions…..as the babies mature they have no fear of the Xenos tending them, humans play run around Xeno with out a care in the Xeno hives; but, by a certain age they use humans as food sustaining all the Xenos in the hives. A never seen before Xeno feeds back to the humans a semi digested eatable rich nutritional secretion so the adult breeders are sustained. And you can imagine how this would all look and sound….humans that have no language, are completely obedient of these Xeno hives, how it might look with many Queens in the hives….the drones feeding the Queens live humans slowly, part ritual, feeding, and pleasurable for the Xenos on some intelligent level.
Then I intended on the human resistance to be equally as formidable so they could go into the hives undetected on reconnaissance missions through stealth and study how to neutralize the global colonies.
I also intended for there to be many new Xeno chimeras that are far more formidable at protecting the drones and Queens inside the hives….very powerful and fast Xenos that can kill instantly with many more types of weapons.
As I stated this was not well received and I really do not care…it was something I dreamed up and to this day enjoy thinking about the potential of such a large conflict…it’s complexities, how the human characters would feel in their deep subterranean cities…where there is power, food, more advanced computers, military science, and human devotion to survival at all costs.
I wanted there to be much desperation, the loss of never ending battles with the new Xenomorphs, the inexplicable fear of sacrificing personal survival for information gained by going into the hives. Most of the reconnaissance missions never return so they are mostly a one way ticket in but never back out.
When I saw AVPR I got a small glimpse of those possibilities taking place in a distant future Earth timeline….I wanted something more profoundly deadly at all points in-between, dark and seductively sinister.....for me the Xeno was never played out just other peoples ideas about what was really possible was tired and played out....I never thought the Xeno was done, and actually wanted to see much more of the Xeno in a much richer complexity and what that might mean…..so that we see the Xeno infestation as a more diversely connected cohesive whole throughout nature itself as they completely overwhelm all the different systems of Earth’s biology.
More often than not I strive to see more potential in all these films than less. They take me down the rabbit hole and can be a good place to start a new story, if nothing else just for artistic purposes.
The Vignette 'En-Route' that is to bridge the first story to the Sequel...
Has become a full-out short story. It's RAW, crude and splintery-rough...needs tons of editing, but it is coming along.
I think, it'll be ready in a few days...maybe a week??
But 'soon'...ish, that's for sure.
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AVPR...
Yeah, well...it's one of those films that had enormous raw potential...but just failed for many reasons.
Interesting ideas were in it, but as has been said, poor execution, and likely the timing of it's release.
I do NOT--and NEVER will consider AVP nor AVPR to be even light years close to Canon, they're money-maker monster-bash movies, plain and simple.
Taken by themselves, as stand-alones...AVP and AVPR are pretty good monster movies, akin to The Blob and such.
BUT...connecting it to the ALIEN and Predator franchises...was risky, and AVP did okay...AVPR, well...it speaks for itself about rolling the dice too often.
IF AVP had involved NEW/Unique monsters...then these two films might well have given rise to a new franchise.
Failed gamble and a wasted opportunity is what they both are.
But...Hollywood. (shrug)
AVPR, is so bad, it makes me very glad for my mangled glasses frames as even if it comes on, I only have the migraine from the glasses to cope with and can't really see that abomination of a movie. :D
AVPR only has one redeeming feature: one of the lead characters has a hot body.
Leto
I have an idea, you mention pharmaceutical companies. Medicines are something that people might look at as a automatically good thing but what if that company is trying to do something that looks good on the outside and is nasty on the inside in how the company works. This could continue the theme of corporate fuckery but it's another sort of company maybe not in its ultimate aim but in how they look at the outside. Maybe the theme could be that what could be decent people and how they become corrupt when they get into situations or structures where the aim is to just get benefits yourself and screw everyone over even though there are sides of you as an individual that are likable.
What if they have tried different things but that it didn't work but then they get to know that the Xeno could be beneficial for its genetic structure or whatever when it comes to making new medicines. Unfortunately it has a side-effect which they know about but they have put a lot of money into developing it so they want to get money from what they have put into the development of that. As with WY human lives are expendable to quote a famous movie. ;)
NTFS:
"What concepts are left for the Alien series?"
There are parts that can be used and given an alien-twist. Just because other things have been used in other movies doesn't mean that they must be put on the shelf and never be revisited. Coming up with something completely new is difficult but if they can be used in the franchise and be used in a clever way then why not?
