Comments (Page 175)

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Ripley=Roby

The biggest difference, as far as I know, is that O'Bannon's script didn't have androids and a corporate conspiracy.

It would be more correct to say: "So, what exactly are the differences between O'Bannon's version and the one eventually Walter Hill & David Giler?

It seems the movie did not meet box office expectations. Is it really a surprise? Alien and The Thing 1982 didn't fare so well but are beyond cult classics to this day.

And lst we forget, Prometheus and AC didn't quite meet expectations either.

Come to think of it, not many sci fi movies outside Star Wars, Star Trek or super hero movies have done really well.

I will buy Underwater when it comes out on DVD. I will be late to the party, but oh well. 

I think RS continuing with the franchise is wishful thinking, but it could continue branching out in other forms. Underwater seems to have some possibilities. Mini series could go different ways too. Others like novels and comics as well. Judging by box office numbers, it's hard to see the franchise continue on the big screen.

I am sad to say but imo I think the whole wonder that we may have possibly seen (RS shown some balls) of the engineers is dead. the backstory of who they truly are, where theyr from, theyr connection to the original alien and all the other visions and routes possible for them after Prometheus has been completely ditched and theyl just be in the next one as plot and time filler. iv said it before and my opinion doesn't change about the direction RS after Prometheus. he simply sold out his vision. iv watched AC twice n there wont be a third. but hey, not like the big guy in the chair, who was he and his relationship to the eggs was ever a major reason to make the prequels..oh wait...............

Welcome and happy new year Thoughts_Dreams.

The Alien: Covenant Origins novel was heavy on character development and didn't reveal Walter until the very end.  Alan Dean Foster did great with that one too.  

If this novel is an Alien story about Planet 4, then he could certainly explain how the Engineers are notified of David's works or go into the history of the egg that was used as a template in the lab on Planet 4.  

There is quite a bit there other than an android's work that Foster could devote time to.  The Alien: Covenant novelization opened up an opportunity to explain the history of Planet 4.

The Egg on Planet 4

"Quite something, that’s for sure, Oram muttered. He continued to gaze at the egg thing and its contents. As patiently lifeless as it was, it still manage to send a quiver of fear through here.

"Oh captain." David shake his head sadly. "Acknowledge beauty when you see it. Even if it’s appearance disturbs you, surely you could admire the skill that went into its design. In case you were wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers skill. And also, I suppose of their hubris."

"Would that I could create something so perfect in its function, he added. I try, but I don’t have thousands of years of practice at biological and genetic engineering. I only have my pitiable programming on which to draw. That, and 10 years of earnest effort on my own behalf. I have learned only a little, yet a soldier on, hoping all ways to achieve something like this, always striving to do better, to improve. That’s what the engineers did, I suppose.That is what someone playing God should do."

Alien: Covenant novelization page 243.

"I am sorry but I laugh when you mention AVPR"

Thats what i was saying.... AVPR made a Mockery of the Xenomorph.... but for Fans they can Pretend it Never Happened like i do with The Predator ;)

I think you have to be Careful with the Xenomorph as i think there is only so much you can do as far as Queen = Eggs..... before it can get STALE... you would be HARD pushed to make another ALIEN/ALIENS and your more likely to make another AVP/AVPR as far as Portrayal of the Xenomorph

As far as the Engineers i would say a Majority who would have Time for them would want to see them as far as WHY they are Connected to the Juggernaught Ships and Xenomorph and what KICK ASS sorts of Technology they have... much like how Fans like how the Predators are shown.

And LESS would be Willing to see the Engineers as far as the WHOLE Gods/Creators and Ancient Stuff... they be like that SHOULD-NOT be what the ALIEN Franchise is about...

But then RS had intended to Expand on the Engineers to make a Spin Off Franchise that is NOT about ALIEN.

If we do see the Engineers again... i DOUBT we would explore their Culture/History and it would purely be like Comics... so it be LV-223 Angry Engineers, Juggernaught Ships, and Black Goo/Eggs and Engineer Weapons like this.

"The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all"

I agree with that, but this came about from FOX not wanting to do the kind of Movie that RS intended that would have STEERED AWAY from the Xenomorph....

Could RS had agreed to give the Xenomorph but add the David as Creator as a BIG .... F-U to Fans who he may think are a reason he had to make a ALIEN Prequel and not go to do what he wanted to do "they want Aliens, i give them $£%$^$ Aliens" as he said.

A thing to remember is Hill and Giler have a MASSIVE say in the Franchise and they did want there ALIEN made which indicated the Xenomorph was a Weyland Yutani Creation but RS had fought HARD to maintain much of O'Bannon's and Shusett's Original Ideas contained.

So maybe Hill/Giler added the David had Created the Xenomorph idea.... and RS just felt it was Interesting as far as a Curve Ball and FITTED with the Broader Themes of Prometheus.

The SAD thing is they have kind of DUG themselves into a Corner....i dont mind if the Novel would try and indicate that David could not have Created the Xenomorph as long is they give a Good Explanation to WHY he thinks he Created a Masterpiece and WHY the Engineers would have a EGG on Planet 4.... unless ADF explains that the EGG came from somewhere else (not Planet 4) i just hope we dont get a HALF ARSED and LAZY way to discredit the David as Creator Plot.

For me the David Creator Plot should remain as far as all he had done is Create the Proto-Type and the Engineers in a Sequel would EVOLVE his Creation.

I guess they could BLOMKAMP what we saw in Alien Covenant like what would have Happened to Alien 3... as in OH... Alien Covenant never really HAPPENED!

But i dont think that would be GOOD.... i think we have to Accept Alien Covenant and try and Repair/Evolve the Damage than to just BRUSH it under the Carpet... but i know that UPSETS a LOT of Fans who see the Eggs come out of the BACKSIDE of a Queen ;)

if the ship is indeed bio-mechanical in nature then perhaps it is a form of interface between what the ship sees/ senses and the helmet of the pilot. the ships information is collected in the telescope like device and transformed into a 3D holographic projection inside the pilots helmet. when he makes a course correction, the device relays the relevant information to the ship. this would negate the need for windows

Regarding the MURAL in Prometheus it seems it maybe never had any Purpose, it was NEVER in any of the Drafts.

There has been some Conflicting Reports on it... One Suggesting there was NEVER any intended Connection, and it was purely a TRIBUTE to HR Giger.  The other which was made by someone who worked on the MURAL had suggested again it had no real Purpose but that it was showing the Deacon.

So it seems there was NEVER any real reason or purpose to those Face Huggers, there was NO reason they was there to show any kind of Connection or to play a CLUE to what was going on.   By that those who Ordered the Mural to be Designed and those who Worked on it, NEVER had any Explanation or Story for WHY those Face Huggers would be there, they were Simply a NOD to HR Giger and so a Easter Egg of Sorts.

But we get things added to the Movie that done have a real baring to the PLOT, some of Davids Drawings are a Example.  Sometimes things are thrown in because they look COOL or they are Concept Works/Props that they just add in for the sake of using them with NO real Connection to the Plot or mention in any drafts.

I cant 100% Speak for ADF and the ALIEN Novel as its been like 30+ Years since i read it.  To my knowledge some of the Drafts did have the Dead Pilot (Space Jockey) but i am not 100% sure we know what Draft that ADF had based his Novel Off and Often we NEVER see the Drafts that those who Write the Novels look at.

I will have to look at the Alien Novel again, but as FAR as i am aware when working on ALIEN there was the idea of having a Space Jockey the Only Changes coming from making the Cargo/Egg Hold become something that was UNDER the Pilot Chamber that was NOT in the Drafts, and so as FAR as i am aware the Drafts had the Space Jockey.

I will say that those who work on the Official Novelizations would see a number of Scripts/Drafts but would be given a Specific One to work off.... and the Combining of the Egg Cargo and Derelict was kind of a Last Minute Change, and so its likely that ADF had already completed so much of the Novel by then, and maybe when he heard about a Scene being Scrapped he maybe thought it was the Space Jockey one and Omitted it, when in reality it was the Pyramid Scene that was Dropped.

Again i cant be 100% certain on that, i guess we have to see if ADF had ever said anything about there being NO such Space Jockey Scene in the Draft he worked of.

I do get the Impression that ADF does ADD stuff to his Novels that are NOT in the Movies or Drafts.... but then his Books Get the Green Light without him having to OMIT any additional content he adds.

Regarding Alien Covenant i think it depends on what Draft he had to base his Work Off.... who knows how many Drafts there was and WHICH of those he used..... the TWO that were Released, we NEVER had the Found as Was Egg Scene that ADF had in his Novel and so this is LIKELY something he added to the Novel that was maybe not Supported by the Drafts but again it was given the Green Light (his Novel) and so someone at FOX would surely had read it before allowing it to go to Print.

When it comes down to the Bombardment Scene this was in ONE of the TWO released Drafts, but Certainly it was NOT Scheduled to be in the Movie until Very Late and so its likely that ADF was made aware that the Movie would have NO SUCH Scene by the Time he had Nearly or Fully Finished his Novel.

for me this is just another indication of how royally they have messed this trilogy up. when we left Prometheus, they had dozens of routes to take. we all speculated multiple avenues and things wed love to see in the sequel but now, its an utter mess. worst of all, its all down to an android which for me ruins the wonder of the whole derelict scene in alien.

as far as the awful Daniels character (for me the single worst main character in either alien or predator franchise), she has to be alive in some form unfortunately (tho someone else could be cast to play the character). we have already had the un-seen, poorly explained fate of Shaw and to do the same or something similar for Daniels' fate would just be lazy and show a lack of originality so we have to get the character at least alive but maybe not whole. id like to see the morphing method return and have Daniels be in a state of morphing which I think would be a more fitting end to that character. at least that would be a level of contribution to the story.

BD

That would be a lot to fix, so much so I think that they need to totally rebuild her and if so I think that it is better to get an entirely new character or at least make better ones. She could have the screen time of Faris and have her as maybe they did with Faris (which I think was a better character now when I think of it), like a smaller role. Speaking of Faris she is the result why I now find three characters that are alright in AC

• Faris
• Oram
• Walter
• Maybe David as a counter-part to Walter but David was still a shit head

They should have kept Faris in the movie for a longer time.

As far as we know she could as well be dead by the new movie if we get another if we look at how AC ended.

He might keep her locked away and then she escapes. That is a way to keep her in the movie but I have no interest for that character the way that she is written now. She is less annoying than Shaw but I can not tell how she is as a human.

"... or we have a Movie that Revolves around Daniels and David."

Hell no, I refuse to have it centered around David, no way. That is one of the reasons why I do not like Covenant that much. Daniels did not work for me, maybe because of bad writers.

"… a Sequel that would BY-PASS what David does between leaving Planet 4 and when another group of Humans would be arriving at Origae-6.."

That could work, the question is how they will build human characters. Having a movie where they fail with that again would be very bad. I do not have much doubts in their ability to come up with a story or to make interesting sets but I very much doubt about their ability to get writers that can make characters. Star wars usually get characters right so maybe some of them can make it? Look at 7-9, they are alright for what they are it is just that they should have had more of Luke. The X-men movie usually get the characters right also at least those that I have watched (X men one and two).

They do not need to kill off Daniels but to make her character better or to reduce her role. As far as David is concerned he does not need to be given the end of Bishop, they just need to have him in a much lesser role compared to AC where the second half of the movie was all about him.

"Its then a case of HOW MANY of these New characters Survive the Next Installment, and do they make it to another Movie and HOW MANY more Movies until we get to ALIEN?"

I don't know, as long as they are sympathetic and well-written then the numbers do not matter to me. If we look at how disappointing the prequels have been this far then I very much doubt that we will get more than one until we will get to Alien in the time-line.

".... and i dont think we would get any Conclusion... more chance of a REBOOT in 2029."

Maybe, but I can not say that it would make me disappointed if that would be the case. The prequels have been mishandled since early in the process when they decided to leave out a lot of interesting stuff in Prometheus. I am not sure if that is about run-time and how much they can show it in the movie-theaters and that kind of thing but it makes the movies worse compared to what they could be.

BD

If he just means the original then maybe so, I like to see new variations of it though which I think that the prequels have managed to do despite of all their faults. Regarding comics and so on that might have contributed to it but I am not one of those that look up things that are considered expanded universe kind of things.

I am sorry but I laugh when you mention AVPR and for a good reason because it is a joke. Not only is it a joke if you look at the other alien movies but it is crap if you look at it alone.

The Engineers were interesting but I think that they should have had a better connection to the SJ and the monster. To have it just as an engineered bio-weapon could cheapen the Xeno but it could be interesting if it is done right but it is just too bad that it was not. I would rather have it being connected to the Engineers rather than having David being responsible for it.

"..... then ONCE you have the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY they Ended Up on the Derelict, its a case of WHATS NEXT?"

I agree that you can expand on it but you also need decent writers and a director that does nor interfere with the writing-process. You got to make it interesting and make sense and unfortunately they failed.

"Ridley Scott had said prior and after Alien Covenant that it was maybe a mistake to have Drifted Too Far from the Beast, he felt you could give it a FEW more Rounds, but you have to Evolve Him, you have to look at other Alternatives and ways of Procreation."

It depends on how you do it sure it was an alien prequel or maybe you could have called it a spin-off. A prequel to Alien means that you put more focus on the Xeno and a spin-off means to have less so the
Engineers fit into that.

"Regarding ALIEN it is about the Characters as we will be seeing the Horror through their Perspective, i think with ALIEN and ALIEN 3 you could replace the Xenomorph with a Neomorph or Deacon and the Movies would still have WORKED!"

I totally agree

You mentioned Star Wars, I like to see different things as long as they make sense. You mentioned different troopers and I think that is something interesting that they have done this far.

"I think there is a STORY to be Told regarding the History and Differences between them, that can be explored in a Number of Ways…"

As long as the story and characters are alright then I am open to it.

"I think you can have BOTH kinds of Engineers, and it would Work, but they have to MERGE the Ancient looking Planet 4 and the more Technological LV-223 Aesthetics…"

It kind of depends on how you do it, I think that The Lord of the Rings is a way to make it right. Maybe it could be interesting to see why the Engineers acted different, different kinds of living. That should have been better dealt with instead of just having David making some notes.

"Could we decide to then ABANDON our Technology/Ways that we had Evolved to from say the 1800's On-wards?   To DO-SO in Order that the Calamity cant be Repeated again?
Maybe we would?"

You could keep some and throw some away, it depends on what you need it for. I do not think that you can separate technology from the kind of society that you live in. Maybe you could have that in a movie in a way although I am not sure how it would be done but there were some interesting things in the buildings that we saw in Alien Covenant for even though we did not see a lot.

Maybe there is something to write about the time between Prometheus and Covenant. Hopefully it will be about more than crazy David. Maybe ADF is about to write a story like that. He seems like a good writer judging from an interview at AVP-galaxy podcast. Eventually his novel version about Covenant is better than the movie since it can not be much worse.

The more he adds that goes against David as the creator of the Xeno the better. The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all. If ADF is trying to go against that then good.

It would be nice if they would have something about the Engineers in the book. What did not get a lot about it in AC so hopefully there will be more information about them there. An idea is that if we will get a third movie they should not have too much in the book but then if there will not be a third one they can have as much as possible in it. There could be a third option that they are trying to release a book about the Engineers or with them in it and judging from how well that book does depends on if they will release a movie that features more of the Engineers. Hopefully the book will have them as creators of the Xeno rather than David.

Hox: I heard something about that at the AVP-galaxy podcast, that idea is crap. Let Scott make the visuals and have someone else do the writing because his ideas are not good (focusing on David, and that thing about re-growing body parts). Sure make it difficult to kill but to make it into the superman version of bugs is ridiculous.

Essentially the Mural was a Easter Egg

No. Easter eggs are in the background and do not play a role in the plot. In Prometheus, Charlie directly studies the mural.

I understand - it’s convenient to consider the mural to be an Easter egg, because it destroys David as the creator. The link to LV-426 from Prometheus additional materials may be canceled because it is not in the film, it is not on the screen. But the mural in the story, it's a part of the film.

Maybe there is something to write about the time between Prometheus and Covenant. Hopefully it will be about more than crazy David. Maybe ADF is about to write a story like that. He seems like a good writer judging from an interview at AVP-galaxy podcast. Eventually his novel version about Covenant is better than the movie since it can not be much worse.

The more he adds that goes against David as the creator of the Xeno the better. The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all. If ADF is trying to go against that then good.

It would be nice if they would have something about the Engineers in the book. What did not get a lot about it in AC so hopefully there will be more information about them there. An idea is that if we will get a third movie they should not have too much in the book but then if there will not be a third one they can have as much as possible in it. There could be a third option that they are trying to release a book about the Engineers or with them in it and judging from how well that book does depends on if they will release a movie that features more of the Engineers. Hopefully the book will have them as creators of the Xeno rather than David.

Ingeniero

"No Space Jockey in the Alien Novelization, Core to Prometheus"

No it's not! There is only one reason: ADF wrote a book on a script in which there was no Space Jockey. If you are familiar with the creation of the film, then you know that the studio did not want to make an expensive SJ layout for the sake of one scene. And only at the end, when the book was already written, the jockey was added to the film.

The same situation with AC, where David bombards Engineers. This scene is not in the book because it was also added to the film after writing the book.

And of course - David create ovomorphs in film/David stayed on the Covenant in the end. But not in the novel! Why? The same reason - the film was changed after writing the book. I know that some people say that the ADF doesn't like Ridley Scott's ideas or he write some or that he writes a kind of fan fiction, or that he had to constantly consult with Ridley Scott so as not to miss any of the director’s ever-changing ideas. No, just film was changed after the novel was writing.

I have decided to take OPTION 3 as this was a Idea i had a Number of Years Back... so i will discus it here over the Next Week.

The Basic Synopsis is:  In 2379 a United Systems Military (USM) Research Station Orbiting one of Saturn's Moons receives a Consignment from the USM Auriga which contains Specimens for Military Research for a Projected called Zarathustra.  The Consignment comprises of Vials of Ripley 8 Blood and the Failed Ripley 7 Queen.  The Outpost begins Various Experiments trying to Create a Super Human Solider, but they also try to Resurrect the Xenomorph from the Failed Ripley 7 Queen DNA.

Successfully Managing to Clone a Queen Hybrid, while also Creating Enhanced Human Hybrids from Ripley 8 DNA they are Playing God and pay the Price for this.

It would Feature a Queen Hybrid that does-not Produce Eggs... hence a Play on Words Title (Viviparitus) where the Queen instead gives Birth to Hybrid Worm/Face Huger Organisms that will Grow but are NOT as Large as a Face Huger and these Parasites will Enter a Host by any means and Orifice, they will even attach to a Host and Secrete Acid to Burn a Hole to Bury Itself in a Host and Gestate.

The Gestated Organism will then Exit the Host near where it has Gestated, and these Xenomorph Hybrids will have a Higher % of Human DNA.  I had mentioned this PLOT a few Years ago, like 2014/2015 the Beast would have looked a little like the Neomorph, well it was to be based on some Unused Prometheus Concepts and Unused Alien Resurrection Concepts.

It would Feature a Hybrid Queen and a way to Procreate another Hybrid Queen.  It would Feature TWO kinds of New Hybrid Xenomorphs.  It would also have Super-Humans created from Ripley 8 DNA.

The One Money Shot being when one of these Super Humans are Infected with the New Hybrid Xenomorph to Create a Ubermorph if you would.

The END would see the Station be Destroyed and Crash on Iapetus but Specimens of Hybrid DNA would INFECT some Basic Organism that are Growing in the THAWING ICE of Iapetus

This would leave it OPEN for a NEW Evolution of Organisms on that Moon.

The PLOT takes Place about the same time as Alien Resurrection

Regarding my Poster... its kind of a Play On Words ;)

Considering that the Engineers come from what we would call Paradise, we have to Wonder what Dr Shaw would be expecting as she is guided by her FAITH!

Looking at some of the Reasons that RS had hinted the Engineers wanted to Destroy us for, then we could safely Assume that had we all Behaved in a Way and Adopted a Simple Way of Life like those Planet 4 Engineers had then maybe they would have had NO reason to Destroy us?

If we look at Alien Covenant and The Crossing, we can only assume that Dr Shaw was NOT made aware of what Happened, its likely David had LIED to her, so when she Awakens the World that Awaits her is NOT in any kind of State to what she had HOPPED to have Discovered.

You have to look at it from HER Perspective....

If David just informed her that he Discovered the Engineers were WICKED and they was about to ATTACK and so he had NO Choice but to take a Safety Precaution and Bombard them.  Well she would have been ANGRY and likely would have wanted David to awaken her before they Arrived so that SHE could make that Decision.   For her she does-not FEAR DEATH she would Gladly DIE if it meant she gets some Answers...

For David we have to remember he sees himself as a Sentient Life-Form, and its Unlikely he would want to be Destroyed... also if he had CARE for Dr Shaw he would NOT be willing to take any Chances of any HARM coming to HER even if he wanted her SAFE for his OWN Selfish Love...

So from his Perspective he would LIKELY had Pulled the Plug on the Engineers as a Guaranteed Safe-Gard for himself and Dr Shaw.

I would assume that David would NOT however be Honest with Dr Shaw, i would Assume and it seems the Excuse he gave would be that he FELT the Ship was Under a Attack, the Engineers Sent out something to DOCK as they was Suspicious and he tried to Escape but during this it cause the Ship to Crash/Fall out the Sky and UNLEASH its Bio-Weapon.

We can Assume that Dr Shaw awakens to Discover they have Crashed, and she would have some IDEA of the Deadly Nature of the Pathogen and that it WOULD-NOT be Safe to Venture outside.

David could Confirm this, and this for him is a Convenient way to KEEP her Locked Away on the Ship, while he is FREE to Venture out and Explore the Engineers City.  I would Assume that Dr Shaw was kept on the Ship for Months, as the Environment outside was NOT SAFE!

On Davids Adventures he maybe brought her back some Fruit/Food and Clean Water, at which point over Time you can Assume that Dr Shaw would be thinking how come David can get Food/Drink that is NOT infected with the Pathogen!

In TRUTH we see that he had discovered Flora and Fauna that appeared to NOT be infected and so we can SAFELY Assume that Planet 4 has Flora/Fauna all over its Surface and that the BOMBARDMENT only infected a Certain Radius.... 

And it was the Engineers Hubris for confining themselves to ONE City that was their Down Fall.  We see that David had Experimented on Female and Infant Engineers, i would ONLY assume they were ALIVE!

HOW did he manage to Experiment on these beings and NOT get his Head Torn Off?  The Answer is Simple... the Engineers were NOT prepared for the Bombardment, just like MOST Humans are on Earth... IF there was a Outbreak or Something and EVERYONE had to Barricade themselves away (think the Movie 10 Cloverfield Lane) then HOW LONG would your FOOD/DRINK supplies Last?  Have you Prepared a Years Supply? or More?

So i would say its LIKELY that Some Engineers managed to Barricade themselves away and KNEW they could NOT venture outside and they SIMPLY Ran out of Food/Drink and became Emaciated and thus they would be RIPE for the Pickings for David....

Maybe  a Few Engineers attempted to Explore but became infected with Neomorph?  And so the Survivors had NO CHOICE but to Wait Out the Infection or Wait for HELP!

The Engineers likely would react like Humans, in that the MALES would be prepared to insure the Rations of Food/Drink go to the Women and Children, which would make the MALES more Emaciated First.

Back to Dr Shaw.... she could get suspicious and Wonder Outside one time and Discover she could Survive Outside (like Michelle did in 10 Cloverfield Lane), maybe she only goes out for a little while, and returns so that David does-not know.... this would give her a GOOD chance to put her Suspicion to the TEST.... she could ASK him... "David has the Infection Passed, is it Safe Outside yet" which he could REPLY that it is NOT.... she would know there and then that he is LYING and then Wonder WHY?

So then she could FOLLOW him and ONCE she makes her way to his Work-Shop she would Discover the Horrors, maybe she sees Alive Engineers who are Chained Up, Infants that are Experimented on!

Dr Shaw could Discover that some Engineers had Survived and she would be ANGRY as if they had attempted to SAVE some of them, maybe they could have GIVEN some Answers!

When she Finally Faces David she would DEMAND some Answers and he would likely still try and LIE to a Degree.  I would assume this is WHEN he declares to her that he is doing this for HER.... so he can Figure a Way so that he can Help her to Procreate and so they can START a NEW Eden.

At this POINT i would suspect that Dr Shaw has LOST any Trust for David and she would want NOTHING to do with his Plans and would TRY and Escape!

David would Catch Her, and TRY and Imprison her, and maybe he Proclaims his LOVE for her.... maybe she would PLAY along so that he may Release Her...... but then he takes the Signals Wrong and goes in for a KISS and she Rejects him.... and he DOES-NOT take Rejection WELL

And the REST is History!

These are EVENTS that i think could likely have Happened that Warrant a Novel, and are the Foundation for the Kind of Story that i would have Fleshed Out with the Project i had Put Off...

Well i would maybe expect some News on Alien Day about any in the Work Novels that Relate to the Franchise and so maybe they may reveal that ADF is working on a Project if so then that could be a indication that LOST IN PARADISE could be about David on Planet 4... only Time will Tell ;)

Regarding those FEW Concepts by HALLET we can only Speculate on what this Canned Project was, looking at it then it Sadly Appears to NOT be connected to ALIEN but some Chinese Production Sci-Fi.... seemed interesting though.

Seems that some may have wondered if it was Alien Awakening, well what ever the Covenant Sequel would have been and you would have to assume David would have liked to CONTINUE with his Genetic Experiments ;)

Have to Remember that David is in GOD MODE now, and he Likely would have wanted to Prove he could Surpass the Creations that Mankind and the Engineers had achieved. 

I think there is some Good Points Raised here and i agree that the ULTIMATE Canon is the Movies, but that does-not mean that other things cant be Canon.

The Biggest Problem with any Canon/Material is they are always subject to CHANGE... which is WHY i never Purchased the W-Y Report as i considered it INCOMPLETE due to us NOT-YET having a Origins Conclusion and so it was just a case of things in the REPORT could be Subject to Change.  But i applaud the Work and Effort that went into it, and a Majority of the Information would have been deemed Accurate at the Time or Close to the Time of Print.  Should we ever Conclude the Prequels/Origins then i guess a Revision of the Report is Warranted and would make a MUST HAVE Purchase.

Regarding other stuff on here i think a lot comes down to Personal Interpretation and Opinion again.

1) Space Jockey, we have to remember it began as a Skeleton (Starbeast) it evolved to some Skeletal looking being HR Giger Necronom V which then HR Giger had to design a Concept Based of that which looked to NOT be a Skeleton, but due to the Color Scheme on the Prop and the Head it appeared to be Skeletal.

But we have to take what Dallas had said as his ASSUMPTION and that the Space Jockey is a Space Suit and i cant see that Changing.

2) Mural in Prometheus to me simply indicates that the Engineers had came into Contact with or Engineered different kinds of Face Huger but this does-not prove that the ALIEN 1979 Face Huger had existed Thousands of Years ago.

Essentially the Mural was a Easter Egg of Sorts a NOD to HR Giger, but those working on it had indicated it was showing the Deacon (this does-not mean the Dr Shaw Sourced Version).

3) The Rerouting of the Nostromo seems to be that the Powers to Be who had Autherised Special Order 937 where looking for a Expendable Ship/Crew that they could use to Obtain a Specimen, and the Nostromo must have been a Convenient Ship that fitted those Parameters that would have been on a Route that would NOT be Vastly off the Path to LV-426.  They had it routed to Thedus to Place a Agent (Ash) on board to make sure the Objective is Reached (Special Order 937).

We cant be sure when the Company was aware of the LV-426 Signal but it seemed they had only Recently Decided to take Action on it Not Long Prior (weeks, months) before they Placed Ash on the Nostromo.  Looking at Alien Covenant i think the Sequels would have given us Information that would have lead to Special Order 937

This message below was also in Phobos and another reason why I believe that the signal might be from the surface of Planet 4, potentially the secret destination all along.

Welcome dk. 

A series of some sort tends to be the trend...it is certainly my wishes for an Alien-type series to stream on something. 

LOST ON PARADISE confirmed as an Alien novel would be so wonderful....and yes, then put it to film in some way as soon as possible.

...circling back....

"The Engineers World was to be considered what we would call PARADISE... and i had mentioned a Few Times that maybe we should look at Paradise in Context of it being a Contained City that is the Cradle of Civilization and a Place only those deemed Worthy/Righteous and Pure are Permitted to Reside."

Ridley Scott mixing up of the roles in Paradise Lost is what I wanted to cite as well BigDave...good stuff.  

Instead of divine Angels attacking the Fallen (Paradise Lost), have the progeny of the Fallen Angels (Engineer's Biblical Inheritance, David's notes above) attack David and maybe the humans that created him.  

David attacking Planet 4 is something similar to a judgement on lukewarm Engineers who expected nothing but comfort.  And they were wiped out by their own weapons.

Good to hear there could be something solid about the events with David and Shaw between Prometheus and AC. I only wish it could be a movie or mini series on a streaming service. 

No Space Jockey in the Alien Novelization, Core to Prometheus

One thing I'd like to note about what is or not canon...isn't the Space Jockey missing from the Alien novelization?  

"The discovery of the derelict alien vessel and the eggs within it differ between book and film - the finding of the huge, long-dead space jockey, which would later inspire Prometheus, is notable for its absence - but the sense of the unknown is masterfully handled."

It is hard to argue that the Alien novelization isn't canon but also hard to reconcile with the story now focusing on the Space Jockey (article on the subject).  

The Weyland-Yutani Report

To me, The Weyland-Yutani Report is like any other corporate report you may read and then find some details do not reconcile and need further explanation, maybe correction.  

The report itself goes some way towards how the Xenomorph eggs ended up on the Sulaco by filling in the blanks in regards to eggs found in places other than near the Queen on LV-426.  And by giving insight into Bishop and Burke's relationship.

I noticed a date of 2089 that was off (by a decade) in the opening for Project Genesis.  

That gets on my nerves because I hold Dr. Elizabeth Shaw's notes and memos on her so dear but I'll live...I can make it.  So, I consider the report official.

Canon...until Ridley changes the details.

The title treatment for your prequel story is great BigDave and Pandemonium has to be mentioned over and over.  

The Alien: Covenant movie poster looks like the place of all demons (pandemonium) and the Alien: Covenant Origins novel opens with a description of something similar to what we see on the movie poster.

Lawrence of Arabia

"Considering his Work on the ALIEN Franchise, and how there was a Untold Story about the Period on Planet 4 from 2094-2104 and the Title: is LOST ON PARADISE.

Considering that Earlier Drafts of Alien Covenant was ALIEN: PARADISE LOST then i think we can Assume that his NEW Novel will indeed be about such Events."

Your analysis above carries even more weight BigDave when considering Alan Dean Foster's latest Update on his website in regards to his comments on Lawrence of Arabia, below.

"1 January 2020...I recently re-watched "Lawrence of Arabia", which is probably my third favorite film of all time (one and two being "Gunga Din" and the 1940 version of "The Thief of Bagdad". Having been present at the premiere of the restored version, all 70mm and stereo sound of it, in Los Angeles many years ago, it is more than a little strange to watch it even on a modern big screen TV. But the wonder and magnificence of it all still shines through, even though I have to continuously remind myself that Peter O'Toole was almost a foot taller than the real T.E. Lawrence..."

Anyone that has seen Prometheus would catch this reference and I believe this is an easy to decode hint when reading the Updates on Alan Dean Foster's website.

Dane Hallett Alien: Covenant Concept Artist

There are concept art pieces on Dane Hallett's Facebook page that are also very interesting in regards to a potential Alien project.  These examples below have aspects that may hint towards an Alien relation.  

Dane Hallett Alien: Covenant David Drawing, below.

David cites underwater expeditions in his notes on the drawings, below.  There are other drawings of starved Engineers too indicating some time before they were all gone from Planet 4 after David's attack.

Dane Hallett cites "fallen project" in regards to other works of concept art that I'm unsure what was for but are really great and they could fit in the Alien universe in my opinion, see below.

The Dane Hallett response to this comment below is very, very interesting...xeno...the potential Alan Dean Foster Alien novel may be a "retooling" of the prequel story after Alien: Covenant.

Yeah, there are no facehuggers on the mural on LV-223.  There's an early Giger concept, that isn't the same as the one David created.

As for the Jockey - Dallas though it looked fossilised, and while he's not an expert, it was fossilised right up to the point that Ridley changed it so it wasn't.

Odd that only films apparently count, when this whole thread is based on something that never happened in a film...?

"the Weyland-Yutani report, in terms of canonicity it holds about as much weight as any of the speculation we have here or on any other fan-site."

No it's not. And that is why we have a WY Report - that would abstract from fan theories.

"for example the Space Jockey is not fossilized because Dallas said so"

Yes it is! Dallas was a narrator is SJ scene. There are no his assumptions. Dallas conveys the author’s intention directly to the viewer. The Space Jockey is fossilised.

"and David cannot create something that was recorded to have existed (Facehuggers on the mural on LV-223) at least 2000 years beforehand"

I like this argument, but, tbh - facehuggers on the mural doesn't look like the classic. The maximum that we can assume is all the results of experiments with Black Slime give rise to many different forms of facehuggers and aliens. David created an Alien, but only his own version.

@S.M.,

While I appreciate that you worked on the Weyland-Yutani report, in terms of canonicity it holds about as much weight as any of the speculation we have here or on any other fan-site. For me, and for us all (IMO) the movies are the only canon, and even then the information related towards us should be treated in contextual terms - for example the Space Jockey is not fossilized because Dallas said so, and David cannot create something that was recorded to have existed (Facehuggers on the mural on LV-223) at least 2000 years beforehand. 

What we know happened pre-movie, from the movie and deleted scenes (are they canon too?) is this - Nostromo traveled from Earth to Thedus, at Thedus their science officer was replaced with Ash, the Nostromo tugged the ore refinery back toward Earth, the Nostromo was rerouted to Z2R.

This and the events of the movie dictate that the Nostromo was SENT (by whom, we can only speculate) to Z2R with the intent of obtaining a Xenomorph specimen, this was not an accident or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think UNTIL we get a Confirmation and a Release of this NEW NOVEL.. we could Speculate about what things could be Contained within such a Story!

Paradise Lost:  (John Milton) was essentially the Tale of the Fall of Lucifer, it was about a Create Being that was Created so Perfect that this being Lucifer became some Proud of his Perfection, that he started to see WHY he should not be seen as Equal to his Creator, and Superior to Mankind.  It shows us how he had Persuaded a 3rd of the Angels to join him and their Punishment and  Exile

We can draw some similarities with David, but also maybe something similar Happened with the Engineers too?

The Engineers World was to be considered what we would call PARADISE... and i had mentioned a Few Times that maybe we should look at Paradise in Context of it being a Contained City that is the Cradle of Civilization and a Place only those deemed Worthy/Righteous and Pure are Permitted to Reside.

I think when we look at Planet 4 then it does seem to me to FIT with Paradise and the Garden of Eden... had EVE not been Persuaded to Eat the Forbidden Fruit, then maybe Adam and Eve would have Prospered into Creating a Civilization that would be Contained within the Garden of Eden under the Watch by their Creator and his Minions.

These are some of the Things i had discussed before we ever got any indication of Alien Covenant, i discussed these in 2013 as i was in PART trying to TIE them into how i would Expand/Explore the Engineers.

So onto LOST IN PARADISE.

Considering what i just put, then if this Novel is about Planet 4 and David, then we can see that INDEED if this Place was Paradise, then after the Arrival of David to this Paradise, he had indeed been Stranded on this WORLD.

We see that "idle hands are the devil's playthings" and so David made some USE of his Time on Planet 4.

*His Various Notes are Evident to him Exploring Past the Boundaries of the City, and to Study Various Fauna and Flora.

*These Notes also indicate he has Carried out Various Experiments on said Fauna and the Black Goo, and the Neomorph Spores to Concoct a Whole Manner of HORRORS as Evident in his Work Shop.

*These Notes also seem to Indicate that he likely Discovered some Surviving Engineers, whom he had Tortured and Experimented with.  Which suggests that the BOMBARDMENT had a Limited Radius and their was some Places of Sanctuary.

*David seems to Indicate/Admit that Dr Shaw was NOT killed in the Crash, and so there was a Period of Time she was Alive, and that he had informed her that he had WASHED this World Clean so they could START anew but she Rejected his Plans... thus likely sealing her FATE!

So there is QUITE a lot that could be Covered, and i was meaning to Cover these and more in a attempt to WRITE a Story that Covered that Period between Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Maybe it is that ADF is also going to do the same and so we can Speculate to WHAT END his Story would Evolve and what it would Contain.

Maybe i should concentrate on Fleshing Out my Parallel Alien Resurrection Story instead that i had a idea for in 2014 ;)

"I don't think Zeta II Reticuli is any near the shipping lanes between Earth and Thedus. Remember, the Nostromo was rerouted by MU-TH-UR to the Zeta II Reticuli system when it was on its return journey to Earth. If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not."

According to the Weyland-Yutani Report, that's exactly what it did.  The signal was originally believed to have come from a lost mapping satellite.

Z2R is not on any shipping lanes, but it is near the main route for Earth-Thedus.  Cosmically speaking.

I don't believe Mother did any re-routing. Whoever put Ash on board did that.

And if David transmitted Advent only once then the Nostromo isn't going to pick it up (unlike the repeating Derelict signal).  Shaw's LV-223 signal could've easily ceased by the time other ships were going past - transmitter power ran out or got wrecked by the weather.  And the Network wasn't as established at that time.  And it assumes Shaw set the message on repeat.

@Ingeniero

It certainly seems like there is some Cover Up and Conspiracy within the Franchise, i think this is a Intriguing Subject.  And so covering such Cover Ups could be Interesting but at the Moment we are also in the DARK on such a Subject!

I think there is always the Possibility that A.I could be behind the Scenes, it seems Ridley Scott was interested in A.I and that the Sequel to Alien Covenant would be more about A.I and we have seen RS indicate about the Hubris of A.I and what THREAT that could pose to Mankind something that Steven Hawking had suggested could be our Down Fall!

In Context to A.I we saw RS also suggest that the Replicants are A.I and so we are NOT just confining this to Computers and Software... but the Hubris of Engineering, Tampering, Evolving and Experimenting with things and NOT leaving things to NATURE... and so Playing God can be a Hubris.

RS also had suggested the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals, and so we can Speculate if the LV-223 Engineers are Genetically Engineered Super Engineers, either Created/Engineered as a Slave Race/Combat Troops or if some Engineers had decided to Genetically Alter themselves.

So we have a Rebellion and Fall on our hands!

Looking at the Paradise Lost and those Images, they are Similar, and before we GOT our Sequel to Prometheus i had Speculated on here in 2012-2013 about the Fresco Image and Paradise Lost, in wondering was there a Rebellion and then ONE Faction had attempted to Punish/Destroy the other with something Horrific... which DID-NOT do the Job and lead those Fallen Engineers to then take this Punishment and Re-Engineer it to Create the Horrors on LV-223 that these Engineers then intend to use on Mankind and their own Creators/Brothers?

These were some of the Things i was going to indicate in my Prometheus Sequels i was working on in 2013-2014.

Regarding the PULLING UP of the Mountains!

Ridley Scott did indicate in 2015 about if the Engineers were the Forerunners of Mankind, then WHO was it that made Worlds become Habitable to Support Life in the First Place... were was the BIG GUY.

The Hierarchy/Creators of the Engineers could indeed possess some Technology that can MOLD and Terra-Form Worlds... and so Create Natural Disasters... of Various Kinds.

The Source i had from November 2014 had Claimed the Engineers Creators possessed Technology that could do this and this Technology is used to Terra-Form but also to Eradicate Life and that the Great Flood and Ice Age are but some USES of this Technology to Destroy!

So the Pulling Up Mountains could be some kind of World Manipulating Technology when we think about that, then Volcanic Activity can be seen as a kind of Pulling Up Mountains and Volcanic Activity is the MOST Destructive Natural Disaster we have on Earth.

If something could EFFECT and cause all the Active/Semi-Active Volcanoes in the World to GO OFF within a 24-48 Hour Period we would be in for a DISASTER of Biblical Proportions that would make the Suggested Asteroid Impact that KILLED off the Dinosaurs look like a Small Disaster in Comparison.

LV-426 has a lot of evidence of Volcanic and Seismic Activity, we could WONDER are these Influenced by some kind of Technology/Event long ago and if we Speculate that then WHY?

Again such things are something i had Pondered when trying to Expand the History of the Engineers and their Creators ;)  It all came down to Cosmic Eggs ;)

Certainly Gavin

I think its interesting to ask what became of the WARNING that Dr Shaw had left.   I think regarding Thedus etc i am not sure we have any Specifics on the Location of this Place or HOW FAR it is from LV-223 i have not read upon the Expanded Novels so i cant really comment much on the Location of Thedus, doing a quick search it seems its in the Outer Veil which is region of space which separates the Outer Rim and the Core Systems and Fiorina "Fury" 161 is also Located in this Region but i am not sure we have any Specifics to HOW LARGE this Region is or how FAR away Worlds like Fiorina 161 and Thedus are.

What we do know is that LV-223 is about 39LY from Earth and the Signal was Transmitted on January 1st 2094 and so thats 28.5 Years before the Nostromo arrived at LV-426 it is Highly Likely that Dr Shaw's Signal was Received at some point..  The only way it could-not have been detected would have been.

*If the Range of the Signal was Short and it was Transmitted just ONCE.

*If the Signal Failed to Transmit past the Point of where Dr Shaw had recorded it.

*If the Signal was on a Secure/Coded Chanel.

*If it was Turned Off at its Source.

How could any of these be Possible... well they could indicate that David was responsible?

With the other Signals again it depends what we take as CANON and i would assume we are to Accept the Prequels as Canon, and so the ADVENT would have been Transmitted on a Secure Chanel so only a Limited Number would be aware of this.

And we have to assume that as of the Year 2105 there is NO Signal on LV-426, and if it seems that David would go to Origae-6 first then that would mean as of the Year 2112 there would also be No Signal on LV-426

I think something we can ASSUME would be that if NOT receiving Dr Shaw's SOS was NOT enough to Warrant a Investigation on LV-223, then surely ONCE the Company Receive the Advent from David they would surely Consider that LV-223 is a Place to Check Out, and in Light of Dr Shaw's Warning they would be Prepared to some Degree (Military).

I will add a bit of a Concern though!

ADF does seem a Massive ALIENS Fan... and it appears he is NOT pleased with the Indication that David is the Creator of the Xenomorph... which i think we can mostly agree was a Mistake!

His work on Alien Covenant Novels he seemed to Indicate that David had discovered a Xenomorph Egg on Planet 4, and in the Origins Novel there was that Dream/Vision by a Prophet Duncan that seemed to allude to the Pre-Existence of the Xenomorph too.

So it just appears to me that ADF adds Material that tries to Discredit the route that there was NO Xenomorph before David's Experiments and i am Concerned that this is WHAT his New Novel would go on to Further Indicate..

Which would RENDER the Effort and Experiments by David all a bit of a Waste of Time for him, but i bet he had NOTHING better to do....  so he would work and experiment on the Black Goo, Neomorphs and what like and NOT really have any Success.... then just Magically Discover a EGG and then Experiment on that ;)

You wait and see!

But then it would be interesting to see the Explanation to WHY the Engineers would be Storing such Deadly Organisms on their Home-World... i would not be surprised if the Engineers are mentioned only in Context to them using Planet 4 as a Place to Sacrifice themselves to SPAWN the Xenomorph...

I guess thats a Route that may Please a lot of Fans though.

This is something i had been talking about for Quite some Time, since the release of his Alien Covenant Origins Novel.

I had mentioned that there was a TALE to be TOLD regarding Dr Shaw and David as far as Certainly what Happened from Once we saw Dr Shaw tucked into Cryo-sleep until the Very Last Breath she had taken on Planet 4.

We also have lots of Clues to Suggest that David maybe discovered some Engineer Survivors and he had Experimented on them, and then we have the WHOLE period of Time he had Conducted Study and Experiments on Planet 4's Surviving Flora and Fauna.

So there is SCOPE for a Story, a Disturbing and Sad Story and one that would UNLOCK the Psyche of David.

I have brought this up a Number of Times over the last 2 Years, i had a series of Ideas on HOW to do such a Book, and discussed some Possibilities over the Years to Ponder some of the Stuff that David had been up to.

But Alas although i kept saying to myself i will Attempt to Write a Fan Fiction on this, i never got around to it.. But the past Few Days i had been looking at my Ideas and was about to Begin working on a Story which hopefully by ALIEN DAY i could present a Rough Draft on HERE.

I even knocked up a COVER for this Novel Idea yesterday ;)

I discussed the past few Days on here about that the UNTOLD story of Davids time on Planet 4 before the events of Alien Covenant did WARRANT a Novel in my Opinion.

What a Coincidence this News from ADF is... does this mean he is working on Similar?

Considering his Work on the ALIEN Franchise, and how there was a Untold Story about the Period on Planet 4 from 2094-2104 and the Title: is LOST ON PARADISE.

Considering that Earlier Drafts of Alien Covenant was ALIEN: PARADISE LOST  then i think we can Assume that his NEW Novel will indeed be about such Events.

Maybe makes my EFFORT a bit MOOT now ;)

"I think we CANT rule out that the Company had been there prior to the Aliens Time Line, but its just something that has YET to be Covered in a Movie/Book but its something that could be covered in Future."

Excellent BigDave.  The novels tend toward the Company covering up past misdeeds on inconvenient planets.

"If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not."

Agreed, a head scratcher Gavin...this may be reconciled with how Weyland Corp compartmentalizes information and the proprietary tech that embeds "Synthetic Static" in all signals that hit the network.  

"the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static. Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down.."

Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.