New Replies (Page 177)

Good to hear there could be something solid about the events with David and Shaw between Prometheus and AC. I only wish it could be a movie or mini series on a streaming service. 

No Space Jockey in the Alien Novelization, Core to Prometheus

One thing I'd like to note about what is or not canon...isn't the Space Jockey missing from the Alien novelization?  

"The discovery of the derelict alien vessel and the eggs within it differ between book and film - the finding of the huge, long-dead space jockey, which would later inspire Prometheus, is notable for its absence - but the sense of the unknown is masterfully handled."

It is hard to argue that the Alien novelization isn't canon but also hard to reconcile with the story now focusing on the Space Jockey (article on the subject).  

The Weyland-Yutani Report

To me, The Weyland-Yutani Report is like any other corporate report you may read and then find some details do not reconcile and need further explanation, maybe correction.  

The report itself goes some way towards how the Xenomorph eggs ended up on the Sulaco by filling in the blanks in regards to eggs found in places other than near the Queen on LV-426.  And by giving insight into Bishop and Burke's relationship.

I noticed a date of 2089 that was off (by a decade) in the opening for Project Genesis.  

That gets on my nerves because I hold Dr. Elizabeth Shaw's notes and memos on her so dear but I'll live...I can make it.  So, I consider the report official.

Canon...until Ridley changes the details.

The title treatment for your prequel story is great BigDave and Pandemonium has to be mentioned over and over.  

The Alien: Covenant movie poster looks like the place of all demons (pandemonium) and the Alien: Covenant Origins novel opens with a description of something similar to what we see on the movie poster.

Lawrence of Arabia

"Considering his Work on the ALIEN Franchise, and how there was a Untold Story about the Period on Planet 4 from 2094-2104 and the Title: is LOST ON PARADISE.

Considering that Earlier Drafts of Alien Covenant was ALIEN: PARADISE LOST then i think we can Assume that his NEW Novel will indeed be about such Events."

Your analysis above carries even more weight BigDave when considering Alan Dean Foster's latest Update on his website in regards to his comments on Lawrence of Arabia, below.

"1 January 2020...I recently re-watched "Lawrence of Arabia", which is probably my third favorite film of all time (one and two being "Gunga Din" and the 1940 version of "The Thief of Bagdad". Having been present at the premiere of the restored version, all 70mm and stereo sound of it, in Los Angeles many years ago, it is more than a little strange to watch it even on a modern big screen TV. But the wonder and magnificence of it all still shines through, even though I have to continuously remind myself that Peter O'Toole was almost a foot taller than the real T.E. Lawrence..."

Anyone that has seen Prometheus would catch this reference and I believe this is an easy to decode hint when reading the Updates on Alan Dean Foster's website.

Dane Hallett Alien: Covenant Concept Artist

There are concept art pieces on Dane Hallett's Facebook page that are also very interesting in regards to a potential Alien project.  These examples below have aspects that may hint towards an Alien relation.  

Dane Hallett Alien: Covenant David Drawing, below.

David cites underwater expeditions in his notes on the drawings, below.  There are other drawings of starved Engineers too indicating some time before they were all gone from Planet 4 after David's attack.

Dane Hallett cites "fallen project" in regards to other works of concept art that I'm unsure what was for but are really great and they could fit in the Alien universe in my opinion, see below.

The Dane Hallett response to this comment below is very, very interesting...xeno...the potential Alan Dean Foster Alien novel may be a "retooling" of the prequel story after Alien: Covenant.

Yeah, there are no facehuggers on the mural on LV-223.  There's an early Giger concept, that isn't the same as the one David created.

As for the Jockey - Dallas though it looked fossilised, and while he's not an expert, it was fossilised right up to the point that Ridley changed it so it wasn't.

Odd that only films apparently count, when this whole thread is based on something that never happened in a film...?

"the Weyland-Yutani report, in terms of canonicity it holds about as much weight as any of the speculation we have here or on any other fan-site."

No it's not. And that is why we have a WY Report - that would abstract from fan theories.

"for example the Space Jockey is not fossilized because Dallas said so"

Yes it is! Dallas was a narrator is SJ scene. There are no his assumptions. Dallas conveys the author’s intention directly to the viewer. The Space Jockey is fossilised.

"and David cannot create something that was recorded to have existed (Facehuggers on the mural on LV-223) at least 2000 years beforehand"

I like this argument, but, tbh - facehuggers on the mural doesn't look like the classic. The maximum that we can assume is all the results of experiments with Black Slime give rise to many different forms of facehuggers and aliens. David created an Alien, but only his own version.

@S.M.,

While I appreciate that you worked on the Weyland-Yutani report, in terms of canonicity it holds about as much weight as any of the speculation we have here or on any other fan-site. For me, and for us all (IMO) the movies are the only canon, and even then the information related towards us should be treated in contextual terms - for example the Space Jockey is not fossilized because Dallas said so, and David cannot create something that was recorded to have existed (Facehuggers on the mural on LV-223) at least 2000 years beforehand. 

What we know happened pre-movie, from the movie and deleted scenes (are they canon too?) is this - Nostromo traveled from Earth to Thedus, at Thedus their science officer was replaced with Ash, the Nostromo tugged the ore refinery back toward Earth, the Nostromo was rerouted to Z2R.

This and the events of the movie dictate that the Nostromo was SENT (by whom, we can only speculate) to Z2R with the intent of obtaining a Xenomorph specimen, this was not an accident or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think UNTIL we get a Confirmation and a Release of this NEW NOVEL.. we could Speculate about what things could be Contained within such a Story!

Paradise Lost:  (John Milton) was essentially the Tale of the Fall of Lucifer, it was about a Create Being that was Created so Perfect that this being Lucifer became some Proud of his Perfection, that he started to see WHY he should not be seen as Equal to his Creator, and Superior to Mankind.  It shows us how he had Persuaded a 3rd of the Angels to join him and their Punishment and  Exile

We can draw some similarities with David, but also maybe something similar Happened with the Engineers too?

The Engineers World was to be considered what we would call PARADISE... and i had mentioned a Few Times that maybe we should look at Paradise in Context of it being a Contained City that is the Cradle of Civilization and a Place only those deemed Worthy/Righteous and Pure are Permitted to Reside.

I think when we look at Planet 4 then it does seem to me to FIT with Paradise and the Garden of Eden... had EVE not been Persuaded to Eat the Forbidden Fruit, then maybe Adam and Eve would have Prospered into Creating a Civilization that would be Contained within the Garden of Eden under the Watch by their Creator and his Minions.

These are some of the Things i had discussed before we ever got any indication of Alien Covenant, i discussed these in 2013 as i was in PART trying to TIE them into how i would Expand/Explore the Engineers.

So onto LOST IN PARADISE.

Considering what i just put, then if this Novel is about Planet 4 and David, then we can see that INDEED if this Place was Paradise, then after the Arrival of David to this Paradise, he had indeed been Stranded on this WORLD.

We see that "idle hands are the devil's playthings" and so David made some USE of his Time on Planet 4.

*His Various Notes are Evident to him Exploring Past the Boundaries of the City, and to Study Various Fauna and Flora.

*These Notes also indicate he has Carried out Various Experiments on said Fauna and the Black Goo, and the Neomorph Spores to Concoct a Whole Manner of HORRORS as Evident in his Work Shop.

*These Notes also seem to Indicate that he likely Discovered some Surviving Engineers, whom he had Tortured and Experimented with.  Which suggests that the BOMBARDMENT had a Limited Radius and their was some Places of Sanctuary.

*David seems to Indicate/Admit that Dr Shaw was NOT killed in the Crash, and so there was a Period of Time she was Alive, and that he had informed her that he had WASHED this World Clean so they could START anew but she Rejected his Plans... thus likely sealing her FATE!

So there is QUITE a lot that could be Covered, and i was meaning to Cover these and more in a attempt to WRITE a Story that Covered that Period between Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Maybe it is that ADF is also going to do the same and so we can Speculate to WHAT END his Story would Evolve and what it would Contain.

Maybe i should concentrate on Fleshing Out my Parallel Alien Resurrection Story instead that i had a idea for in 2014 ;)

"I don't think Zeta II Reticuli is any near the shipping lanes between Earth and Thedus. Remember, the Nostromo was rerouted by MU-TH-UR to the Zeta II Reticuli system when it was on its return journey to Earth. If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not."

According to the Weyland-Yutani Report, that's exactly what it did.  The signal was originally believed to have come from a lost mapping satellite.

Z2R is not on any shipping lanes, but it is near the main route for Earth-Thedus.  Cosmically speaking.

I don't believe Mother did any re-routing. Whoever put Ash on board did that.

And if David transmitted Advent only once then the Nostromo isn't going to pick it up (unlike the repeating Derelict signal).  Shaw's LV-223 signal could've easily ceased by the time other ships were going past - transmitter power ran out or got wrecked by the weather.  And the Network wasn't as established at that time.  And it assumes Shaw set the message on repeat.

@Ingeniero

It certainly seems like there is some Cover Up and Conspiracy within the Franchise, i think this is a Intriguing Subject.  And so covering such Cover Ups could be Interesting but at the Moment we are also in the DARK on such a Subject!

I think there is always the Possibility that A.I could be behind the Scenes, it seems Ridley Scott was interested in A.I and that the Sequel to Alien Covenant would be more about A.I and we have seen RS indicate about the Hubris of A.I and what THREAT that could pose to Mankind something that Steven Hawking had suggested could be our Down Fall!

In Context to A.I we saw RS also suggest that the Replicants are A.I and so we are NOT just confining this to Computers and Software... but the Hubris of Engineering, Tampering, Evolving and Experimenting with things and NOT leaving things to NATURE... and so Playing God can be a Hubris.

RS also had suggested the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals, and so we can Speculate if the LV-223 Engineers are Genetically Engineered Super Engineers, either Created/Engineered as a Slave Race/Combat Troops or if some Engineers had decided to Genetically Alter themselves.

So we have a Rebellion and Fall on our hands!

Looking at the Paradise Lost and those Images, they are Similar, and before we GOT our Sequel to Prometheus i had Speculated on here in 2012-2013 about the Fresco Image and Paradise Lost, in wondering was there a Rebellion and then ONE Faction had attempted to Punish/Destroy the other with something Horrific... which DID-NOT do the Job and lead those Fallen Engineers to then take this Punishment and Re-Engineer it to Create the Horrors on LV-223 that these Engineers then intend to use on Mankind and their own Creators/Brothers?

These were some of the Things i was going to indicate in my Prometheus Sequels i was working on in 2013-2014.

Regarding the PULLING UP of the Mountains!

Ridley Scott did indicate in 2015 about if the Engineers were the Forerunners of Mankind, then WHO was it that made Worlds become Habitable to Support Life in the First Place... were was the BIG GUY.

The Hierarchy/Creators of the Engineers could indeed possess some Technology that can MOLD and Terra-Form Worlds... and so Create Natural Disasters... of Various Kinds.

The Source i had from November 2014 had Claimed the Engineers Creators possessed Technology that could do this and this Technology is used to Terra-Form but also to Eradicate Life and that the Great Flood and Ice Age are but some USES of this Technology to Destroy!

So the Pulling Up Mountains could be some kind of World Manipulating Technology when we think about that, then Volcanic Activity can be seen as a kind of Pulling Up Mountains and Volcanic Activity is the MOST Destructive Natural Disaster we have on Earth.

If something could EFFECT and cause all the Active/Semi-Active Volcanoes in the World to GO OFF within a 24-48 Hour Period we would be in for a DISASTER of Biblical Proportions that would make the Suggested Asteroid Impact that KILLED off the Dinosaurs look like a Small Disaster in Comparison.

LV-426 has a lot of evidence of Volcanic and Seismic Activity, we could WONDER are these Influenced by some kind of Technology/Event long ago and if we Speculate that then WHY?

Again such things are something i had Pondered when trying to Expand the History of the Engineers and their Creators ;)  It all came down to Cosmic Eggs ;)

Certainly Gavin

I think its interesting to ask what became of the WARNING that Dr Shaw had left.   I think regarding Thedus etc i am not sure we have any Specifics on the Location of this Place or HOW FAR it is from LV-223 i have not read upon the Expanded Novels so i cant really comment much on the Location of Thedus, doing a quick search it seems its in the Outer Veil which is region of space which separates the Outer Rim and the Core Systems and Fiorina "Fury" 161 is also Located in this Region but i am not sure we have any Specifics to HOW LARGE this Region is or how FAR away Worlds like Fiorina 161 and Thedus are.

What we do know is that LV-223 is about 39LY from Earth and the Signal was Transmitted on January 1st 2094 and so thats 28.5 Years before the Nostromo arrived at LV-426 it is Highly Likely that Dr Shaw's Signal was Received at some point..  The only way it could-not have been detected would have been.

*If the Range of the Signal was Short and it was Transmitted just ONCE.

*If the Signal Failed to Transmit past the Point of where Dr Shaw had recorded it.

*If the Signal was on a Secure/Coded Chanel.

*If it was Turned Off at its Source.

How could any of these be Possible... well they could indicate that David was responsible?

With the other Signals again it depends what we take as CANON and i would assume we are to Accept the Prequels as Canon, and so the ADVENT would have been Transmitted on a Secure Chanel so only a Limited Number would be aware of this.

And we have to assume that as of the Year 2105 there is NO Signal on LV-426, and if it seems that David would go to Origae-6 first then that would mean as of the Year 2112 there would also be No Signal on LV-426

I think something we can ASSUME would be that if NOT receiving Dr Shaw's SOS was NOT enough to Warrant a Investigation on LV-223, then surely ONCE the Company Receive the Advent from David they would surely Consider that LV-223 is a Place to Check Out, and in Light of Dr Shaw's Warning they would be Prepared to some Degree (Military).

I will add a bit of a Concern though!

ADF does seem a Massive ALIENS Fan... and it appears he is NOT pleased with the Indication that David is the Creator of the Xenomorph... which i think we can mostly agree was a Mistake!

His work on Alien Covenant Novels he seemed to Indicate that David had discovered a Xenomorph Egg on Planet 4, and in the Origins Novel there was that Dream/Vision by a Prophet Duncan that seemed to allude to the Pre-Existence of the Xenomorph too.

So it just appears to me that ADF adds Material that tries to Discredit the route that there was NO Xenomorph before David's Experiments and i am Concerned that this is WHAT his New Novel would go on to Further Indicate..

Which would RENDER the Effort and Experiments by David all a bit of a Waste of Time for him, but i bet he had NOTHING better to do....  so he would work and experiment on the Black Goo, Neomorphs and what like and NOT really have any Success.... then just Magically Discover a EGG and then Experiment on that ;)

You wait and see!

But then it would be interesting to see the Explanation to WHY the Engineers would be Storing such Deadly Organisms on their Home-World... i would not be surprised if the Engineers are mentioned only in Context to them using Planet 4 as a Place to Sacrifice themselves to SPAWN the Xenomorph...

I guess thats a Route that may Please a lot of Fans though.

This is something i had been talking about for Quite some Time, since the release of his Alien Covenant Origins Novel.

I had mentioned that there was a TALE to be TOLD regarding Dr Shaw and David as far as Certainly what Happened from Once we saw Dr Shaw tucked into Cryo-sleep until the Very Last Breath she had taken on Planet 4.

We also have lots of Clues to Suggest that David maybe discovered some Engineer Survivors and he had Experimented on them, and then we have the WHOLE period of Time he had Conducted Study and Experiments on Planet 4's Surviving Flora and Fauna.

So there is SCOPE for a Story, a Disturbing and Sad Story and one that would UNLOCK the Psyche of David.

I have brought this up a Number of Times over the last 2 Years, i had a series of Ideas on HOW to do such a Book, and discussed some Possibilities over the Years to Ponder some of the Stuff that David had been up to.

But Alas although i kept saying to myself i will Attempt to Write a Fan Fiction on this, i never got around to it.. But the past Few Days i had been looking at my Ideas and was about to Begin working on a Story which hopefully by ALIEN DAY i could present a Rough Draft on HERE.

I even knocked up a COVER for this Novel Idea yesterday ;)

I discussed the past few Days on here about that the UNTOLD story of Davids time on Planet 4 before the events of Alien Covenant did WARRANT a Novel in my Opinion.

What a Coincidence this News from ADF is... does this mean he is working on Similar?

Considering his Work on the ALIEN Franchise, and how there was a Untold Story about the Period on Planet 4 from 2094-2104 and the Title: is LOST ON PARADISE.

Considering that Earlier Drafts of Alien Covenant was ALIEN: PARADISE LOST  then i think we can Assume that his NEW Novel will indeed be about such Events.

Maybe makes my EFFORT a bit MOOT now ;)

"I think we CANT rule out that the Company had been there prior to the Aliens Time Line, but its just something that has YET to be Covered in a Movie/Book but its something that could be covered in Future."

Excellent BigDave.  The novels tend toward the Company covering up past misdeeds on inconvenient planets.

"If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not."

Agreed, a head scratcher Gavin...this may be reconciled with how Weyland Corp compartmentalizes information and the proprietary tech that embeds "Synthetic Static" in all signals that hit the network.  

"the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static. Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down.."

Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.

Pulling Up Mountains

While reading Alien: Sea of Sorrows, where the city was buried thousands of feet underground, I was reminded of parts in Paradise Lost, Book VI where the Fallen Angels are confronted by Angels sent to fight them.  In all their might, the Angels sent were then put “to some disorder” when attacked by “devilish engines” built by the Fallen Angels.  

Do the Engineers do something similar to this in response to what David did to those on Planet 4?

Chapter 17 Necropolis

“Then he stared at the discovery spread out before him, with a smile that couldn’t go any wider. A metropolis, really. It looked to be centuries old. The city was vast, built on hills and spreading down into areas where, once, there had been valleys, most likely cut by rivers. It was stunning, even with everything in ruin. Scarred and pitted surfaces, buildings that had collapsed nearly to the ground, yet still they were wonders.” 

Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 127.

Do The Engineers Confront David?

Could Planet 4 have mountains pulled up on it by Engineers that confront David if he goes back to the surface of Planet 4 and the planet eventually ends up looking like LV-178 or LV-426?  

"THE ARGUMENT

Raphael continues to relate how Michael and Gabriel were sent forth to battle against Satan and his Angels. The first fight described: Satan and his Powers retire under night. He calls a council; invents devilish engines, which, in the second day’s fight, put Michael and his Angels to some disorder; but they at length, pulling up mountains, overwhelmed both the force and machines of Satan.”

Paradise Lost, Book VI, page 135.

"From those deep-throated engines belched, whose roar

Embowelled with outrageous noise the air,

And all her entrails tore, disgorging foul"

Paradise Lost, Book VI, page 152.

THE DOWNFALL OF THE REBEL ANGELS by William Blake is on this page in Paradise Lost.  This painting, I believe, resembles the Alien: Covenant movie poster, enhanced below.

Long story short....does Weyland-Yutani cover up the events on Planet 4 and then the Engineer city is discovered much later by miners/someone else that is prospecting/colonizing?

And by then is the planet is called something else that we might recognize?

"We've seen LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4 and Fiorina.  The first two are located near the co-ordinates, but not at those co-ordinates.  If Planet 4 was near there, other ships on the way to Thedus would've picked up Shaw's signal."

This has always bothered me, let me clarify...

I don't think Zeta II Reticuli is any near the shipping lanes between Earth and Thedus. Remember, the Nostromo was rerouted by MU-TH-UR to the Zeta II Reticuli system when it was on its return journey to Earth. If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not.

While we know the Nostromo was rerouted by MU-TH-UR to the system, it is my belief that it was done so maliciously so that the Nostromo would then be in range of the derelict Juggernauts signal allowing MU-TH-UR and the recently (at Thedus) planted Ash synthetic to ultimately enact special order 937 under the guise of Weyland-Yutani's somewhat forceful extra-solar signal investigation legislation (investigate signals or forfeit shares).

"Is there a planet that we have seen in the other Alien films that was once called Planet 4 or did the signal bounce from this system, or...?"

Sorry, not sure what you're getting at.

We've seen LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4 and Fiorina.  The first two are located near the co-ordinates, but not at those co-ordinates.  If Planet 4 was near there, other ships on the way to Thedus would've picked up Shaw's signal.

TRIFLE OF IDEAS!

While it has been awhile with NO NEWS on the Future of the Franchise...

It does seem UNLIKELY we may see a Continuation of the Prequels, Especially the route that Ridley Scott was taking.

I am surprised the DRUMS of Cameron, Weaver and Blomkamp had not Started to Stir last ALIEN DAY.. would they make a Reprisal this April?

I dont think doing a Blomkamps Alien 5, bring the Gang Back seems a Good Idea... let the Past be the Past! well as far as BRING BACK the Dead ;)

There is a Market for the Franchise, its about getting the RIGHT kind of Story/Plot right, and something that can Please the Fans...  it would have been NICE to see something that covers the Engineers, but it appears that UNDER the Ownership of Disney it seems that XENOMORPHS are the Order of the Day!

The Franchise is NOT yet Dead... i do think we need to HEED some of the Words by Ridley Scott in that i think if you do go back to Xenomorphs you have to be Careful how you Portray them, and how many Movies you think you can get AWAY with before you have to make some Changes and Freshen things up a Little...

Seems Disney have been interested in Exploring the Story of Amanda Ripley, but i am not sure we NEED to explore her in Context of a Movie or TV Series.....  sure one of the Ripleys could get a Mention, but i dont think any near FUTURE Movie/TV Series has to Feature or especially Revolve around the Ripleys..

So FANS are not done with the Xenomorph.... i am sure Disney feel the same.... but its a case of HOW do you make another Movie or TV Series that will revolve a lot around the Xenomorph and NOT really Contradict the other Movies or Prequels?

There are a FEW avenues they could Continue!

1) What Happened in the Aftermath of Special Order 937?  Would the Company just Abandon the whole thing?  Especially in Light of Revelations with the Prequels?

We know that in ALIENS the Hadleys Hope Colony are given some Co-Ordinates to Check Out that then leads to the Downfall of that Colony.  When we see what Kick Started this off, we Notice the Section the Jorden's enter the Derelict is different to the Nostromo Crew and has some DAMAGE that looks like some kind of Explosion may have Occurred!

Had someone been to the Derelict post 2122 but prior to the Construction of Hadleys Hope?

2) When we arrive at Alien Resurrection some 200 Years after the Apparent Destruction of Hadleys Hope, we see the USM Scientist had attempted and successfully Managed to Obtain a Xenomorph Queen from Cloning Ripley's DNA.

Was this the First Attempt and WHY wait so LONG, surely someone would have Possessed her DNA for Hundreds of Years... and did the Destruction of Hadleys Hope leave the Derelict as a Unfeasible Source for Xenomorphs? What state is the Derelict in after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope!

Would the Company not try and Investigate LV-426 afterwords, certainly after the LOSS of Ripley on Fury 161 and what other DNA could they have Collected and how would this be used?

3) With the Destruction of the USM Auriga does this mean the END of the Xenomorph?  What happened to the Ripley 7 Clone?  We see something was Removed, and so how Viable was the Queen removed from her and WHERE would this had been Sent too?

Could anything had been obtained from the Crashed Auriga or how long would Ripley 8 Survive and what would become of her?

Option 1) Could be used to explain the Difference between the Xenomorph in ALIEN and the Queen in ALIENS.  We had Ridley Scott say about how you can explore the Xenomorph some more but you have to Evolve Him and Explore different ways of Procreation!

Jon Spaights Prequel Drafts Alien Engineers/Genesis he had indicated the Creators of the Xenomorph had been Engineering Variations of the Organism, 8 Variants in Fact!

So the OPTION is there that the Derelict Contained a Few Variants of the Xenomorph with a slightly different Appearance and Method Procreation and so this could be USED to introduce a Slightly different Version with another kind of Procreation, which leads to the Attempted Destruction of the Derelict.

Or it could explore the Original Cargo/Xenomorph on LV-426 and show us the EGG MORPH but then indicate from this something Evolved that would lead to a QUEEN... for example if we are shown a Egg Morph created a Egg that could lead to a Queen Royal Face Huger?

Option 2 and 3 could be used to Introduce some Xenomorph Hybrid Experiments.  For Example Option 2 could have Mutated Xenomorph Eggs that just cant Produce any Queen or other Procreation.  We could see the Company Attempt to Obtain a way to Procreate them though. While Option 3 could be used to give us a Hybrid that is more different than we have seen in Alien Resurrection, imagine a Xenomorph that is like a Cross between the Neomorph and Xenomorph? Or even introduce a Few Different Hybrids!

so there are ways to introduce a more ALIENY Movie or TV Series that would NOT have to deal with the Prequels or Ripley's and NOT really Contradict anything... but to give us the Xenomorph again... with maybe a WAY to Change them to a Degree!

I thought i would BUMP this Thread instead of making a New One which i was thinking of for Alien Day but i cant wait... so instead of a TRIFLE OF IDEAS!  Topic i was going to do.. It is just as Relevant to add to this THREAD.

I will add that i do think a Prequel Novel that Covers David and Dr Shaw is something that is WARRANTED.

There is Quite a lot of Shenanigans that had Transpired from when the Juggernaught carrying David and Dr Shaw arrived at Planet 4, until the Weeks after David had Achieved his Masterpiece and NOW is just AWAITING the Arrival of any would be Visitors to his Paradise.

You could also have some Coverage of what Happened after David and Dr Shaw discovered the Juggernaught, until just prior to David arriving at the System that contains the Engineers Home World.

There is a STORY to be TOLD... a Potentially Dark and Sinister one at that....  we only have a Glimpse at Davids Work Shop and Notes/Drawings... 

A Picture Paints a Thousand Words..... but a Painting does-not tell the Full Story!

Discussed this before....

It certainly was something that i think the Fans thought would have Covered the Events around David and Dr Shaw and so i think Fans may have expected a Extending The Crossing kind of Novel.

But alas it was a Prequel Novel to the Covenant Mission.

The Book Cover was also Very Deceiving

Something like this i Knocked Up would be more Fitting!

As the Mission is about a Group of Humans who wish to GET AWAY from the Hell that Earth has become to seek a New Home and a New Start.  But then about the Attempted Sabotage of the Covenant Mission.

But for Marketing Purposes the BOOK Cover they gave us would likely Trick Fans to thinking more of a Connection to the Xenomorph etc and so to get more Sales/$$$$

Similar Trick they used for the Alien Covenant poster.

Certainly they may even NOT have Acid for Blood per say!

But a Fluid that reacts with certain Environments to then TURN into a Acid.  So like the Chemical Composition is different while the Fluid is moving around the Organism.

The other Alternative to this is that the Organisms Genetic Material is SOMEHOW able to withstand the Corrosive Effects of the Acid/Chemical.

Missed this Topic but covered similar.

What we have is as Dark Nebula mentioned, that Hatton and Hallet had produced a Number of Drawings with Dr Shaw, and it was deemed to be COOL to add their work into the Movie for just a Brief Glimpse.

The Artist had Discussed these in the Past and gave some Alternative/Ambiguous reasons for them. They Suggested/Pondered that maybe David had Cloned her? or he had Resurrected/Repaired her?

But they also said or they could be the Twisted Dreams/Vision that he had that he chose to Draw, and i think this is the LIKELY explanation if we are looking at the most Suited/Logical Explanation.

We have to Wonder would he actually try and Carry some of these Dreams/Visions out on Daniels ;)

I think to look at what JakeBranson had put then i think yes it was a Shame they Killed off Dr Shaw with NO real role for her to Play, but there are STUDIO reasons for this. But Noomi Rapace did have some Free-Time in her Schedule to Shoot the Crossing, and she could have had a Free Period to give her a Small Role in the Movie... she was disappointed at NOT being involved as she felt her Characters Story had more to be TOLD.

Katherine Waterston did comment that she heard there was some Interesting Things as far as her Character, but she then added that she could just as likely END-UP in a Body Bag...  which is to show she is AWARE that there is No Guarantee they would use her, and she could become a Experimented on Afterthought like Dr Shaw was.

There is some Mystery and Untold Events from the Moment until Dr Shaw took her LAST Breath and the Moment she had been Tucked into Cryo-Sleep in The Crossing.

There is a Story there that would be ok for a Novel, a Very Sad and Disturbing Story that would Delve into the Mind of David and his Actions/Thinking.

This shows approximately where the Signals in the Franchise came from... Derelict LV-426 Signal and where David had Transmitted the Advent Message after the events of Alien Covenant (we assume).

I think while we dont have Specifics i think we can Safely Assume that Planet 4 is located in the Vicinity of where the Advent Signal was Transmitted and that LV-223 should be within the Vicinity of the Derelict/LV-426 Signal.

Regarding LV-223 i think its Safe to Assume it is located near LV-426 and a way that this could be Confirmed would be in a Future Novel/Game or a Movie.

Had we saw Alien Covenant gain a Sequel/Sequels it was LIKELY that we would at some point return to the Vicinity of LV-426.

With the likely CONCLUSION that the Derelict was either..

1) Heading towards LV-223 but only gets as FAR as nearby LV-426

2) Leaving from LV-223 but but only gets as FAR as nearby LV-426

A Visit to the System again, especially as far as SET before ALIENS could go on to show that the GAS GIANT which is referred as Calpamos had/has 4 Moons.

A Plot could then show the Destruction of LV-223 which would leave only 3 Moons we see in ALIEN and Answer in Part as to WHY the Company would Pursue only Ripley after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope for the Xenomorph.

I guess they would have to show or we would have to Speculate as to WHY they never go to Planet 4 to obtain a Specimen too.

Certainly there is little doubt about WHERE the Transmission Originated from, a point that i raised in this TOPIC recently.

This shows approximately where the Signals in the Franchise came from... Derelict LV-426 Signal and where David had Transmitted the Advent Message after the events of Alien Covenant (we assume).

I think while we dont have Specifics i think we can Safely Assume that Planet 4 is located in the Vicinity of where the Advent Signal was Transmitted and that LV-223 should be within the Vicinity of the Derelict/LV-426 Signal.

Regarding Planet 4 i think its a Good Question to Speculate as to WHY this is NEVER mentioned in the Franchise (Real Reason it Never Existed at this Time lol)  but now we have the Prequels we can Speculate to WHY they never went back to Planet 4.

I think we CANT rule out that the Company had been there prior to the Aliens Time Line, but its just something that has YET to be Covered in a Movie/Book but its something that could be covered in Future.

Your topic is very interesting and me enjoyed this like.

If you want a massage in a room where zero clothing is allowed, press here hard. 

No Engineers in the Prequel novel!

Say it ain't so. 

It is.

"Allen"...love it.  That is funny.

"Mother doesn't like all this boner talk."

"Plumber's Union."

David is a great antagonist, showcased far more than some appreciate, and should be reconciled with his works JakeBranson in some great fashion...torn apart, dropped in lava or into a star.  David was bisected by an Engineer and still managed to wipe out all Engineer social activity on Planet 4 shortly after.  So, yes, "he" will get his.  I hope.

I do expect David to live on as a "Personality" in Mother if that happens due to the below explanation on page 35 of The Weyland-Yutani Report.  Ash did in a novel and interacted with Ripley before the events shown in Aliens.

"'Personality' subprograms could be downloaded depending on the AP application, and all models ran a laboratory installed subprogram that ensured complete loyalty to Company interests."

"Prepare ye.." Awesome.

Happy new year everyone!

Thank you for this dk.

Welcome S.M.  You're correct.

The above title graphic is for the topic where we tried to wrap our heads around the system, here. I'm not sure we made much progress during our debate, analysis.

Is there a planet that we have seen in the other Alien films that was once called Planet 4 or did the signal bounce from this system, or...?  I think that's the synopsis of our works.  

The question posed is answered 24 seconds into the video.  It's sent from somewhere in the vicinity of Zeta 2 Reticuli.

hox Of course, a xenomorph doesn’t have to play by the rules...

If we consider AVP as canon (most people don't), it is interesting that the queen had been hibernating/dormant until humans stirred the pot.

In Alien 3, the xeno withstood molten temperatures and in AR they could easily survive underwater.

The warm/cold blooded question is interesting to ponder and maybe smarter people can weigh in.

I would say that because it has acid for blood, biological rules wouldn't apply and makes for a nice and neat plot convenience.

Missed to reply on this Topic ;)

Great Points jdvyne

I think the Main Thing thats going in is PURE Coincidence at the sake of Plot Convenience which is basically a Excuse for Lazy Writing ;)

But a Good Conspiracy is always FUN ;)

I would also think that could WORK... but if we take it a STEP Further by having it that some Rogue A.I is Pulling the Strings and Humans have always been the Pawns..

Which was the idea i had for my Prometheus 2 i was working on in 2013 with Project Rook... where it would be Weylands A.I Soul that is pulling the strings ;)

Regarding the Regenerating Xenomorph, it seemed a ODD Comment to make, but its No Secret that RS felt the Xenomorph was reduced in the Sequels to ALIEN, as far as How Easy it was to Kill.

Maybe why with Alien Covenant he tried to show the Neomorph would take quite a lot of Fire Power, but we have to ACCEPT the Colonial Marines had more Damaging Fire Power.  It would appear that IF we saw Ridley Scott make a ALIEN 2 instead of Aliens being released we would have seen the Xenomorph expanded on in a Different way that James Cameron had.

We see NO evidence of Regenerative Xenomorphs in ALIENS or the other Movies, and so some may think it was a ODD Comment to make....

HOWEVER.....

A Organism with Regenerative Ability would give the Company a Good Reason to OBTAIN a Specimen, rather than a Rampaging Killing Bug.

And we do see Regenerative Ability with Ripley 8 and so as far as Scientific Discovery goes, those Experiments on the USM Auriga, and that surely would be VERY important for any Scientific Research or Bio-Weapons Division.. Ripley 8 is in a effect a Super Solider (has the Potential to be Exploited as such).

I am not so sure on how having Regenerating Xenomorphs would work, the IDEA that i would have liked to had seen is that WHEN we see a Xenomorph Killed... its Body will Decompose into a Pile of Matter from which ONE or more Eggs would Sprout so that the Xenomorph Life Cycle is Continued.   Thats how i would explore the comment that Ridley Scott had made.

Sometimes we have to accept that Movies are not the Most Scientifically Accurate, also there are other conflicts and Contradictions than can happen with Franchises when Sequels/Prequels are Handled by different Directors and Production.

I will add as far as Ridley Scott and what he may say in Interviews or Commentary can be Changed as Ultimately its what is SHOWN in the Movies that Count.

By that what he mentioned in them Prior to Alien Covenant would Totally Contradict what Alien Covenant was showing.. but thats really a different Debate thats NOT related to LV-223/426.. only as far as what is on LV-426 at the Time of Alien Covenant but thats a Subject that has been done to Death i think ;)

But the point i am trying to raise is that while RS may have Confirmed that they are in the same System and again by System he was not Specific and so that does-not 100% mean they Orbit the same Gas Giant, but a lot of other Material as suggested they are Moons that surround the same Gas Giant.

It could always be Expanded on differently, for example they could belong to the same Binary System but Orbit different Stars.

On Screen we are NEVER shown really where LV-223 is, it has No Mention of being IN/NEAR the Zeta 2 Reticuli system.  All we see is that the Moon is designated LV-223 and it Orbits a Ringed Gas Giant.

With ALIEN we are Never given the Name of the Moon the Nostromo visit, only that it is a Moon that is in a system just SHORT of Zeta 2 Reticuli

Aliens we get the Designation LV-426 but we dont see any Ringed Gas Giant or other Moons (as far as i Remember) it is implied they went to the Same Place that the Events of Alien took place....  With the Special Edition with the Derelict showing that LV-426 is 100% where the events of ALIEN had taken place.

So what i am saying is they could CHANGE the Location of LV-223, i think it Unlikely they would do though, and i think if they did then i think they would still have all the EVENTS of the Alien Franchise, (well First TWO Movies and First TWO Prequels) to be set in the Vicinity of the Zeta 2 Reticuli system

The Advent Viral Clip seems to indicate the First Source of David's Message was RA 3hrs 17 Min 8.0 Seconds, DEC -62 37' 41.1 which is just South East to the Zeta 2 Reticuli System

However Right Ascension and Declination are dependent on the Date/Time from Earth and so viewing Space from a Space Ship should we be considering the Right Ascension and Declination from the Ships present Location etc.

I think the Intention Regardless is to show us that the Events of Alien/Aliens and Prometheus/Alien Covenant take place within the Constellation of Reticulum but more so close to the Location of Zeta Reticuli Binary Star System.

By aligning itself vertically, the ship has less air to push out the way if it wants to fly straight up. If it can hover silently, it can probably move in any direction it cares to, but no matter how advanced its propulsion system is, aerodynamics is a consideration when you’re in an atmosphere.

it may well be the case that the ship has a high power mode (as Big Dave suggests) with the main propulsion at the rear. That seems to be the case with the Juggernaut that leaves at the end of the movie. In that case it was heading off at a different elevation, but still minimising the amount of air that it displaced.

You have to be a little careful with the word ‘system’ because you can have a solar system (like our own) or a system comprising multiple stars (like a binary system). You have to be even more careful when listening to Ridley Scott as he probably doesn’t know too much about this kind of thing! I mean, when he lets one of his actors report the location of a planet as having a certain declension (instead of the correct declination) you do have to wonder... And then, of course, he did let rip on the Covenant commentary with his theory of how the dismembered xenomorph would re-grow from it’s separated body parts!

I  missed this TOPIC.

I find the Evidence Submitted Compelling to say the Least and SURE i cant see why it could not have been made to DOCK with the Saucer/Pebble Ship.

Nice Catch ;)

Welcome aboard...

I think we have to remember its Sci-Fi and some things just look Cool for Aesthetic Reasons alone, and so i dont think any Thought was given to WHY the Ship appeared to Change its Orientation.

It seems it was Horizontal to be able to Drop Off the Engineer and then it went Vertical in order to attain a Escape Velocity to leave the Planets Atmosphere

Which is what we see with the Space Shuttle, as it is sent into Space Vertically via Rockets, so i can only ASSUME the Engineers Ship has a Propulsion that allows it to Escape a Planets Atmosphere etc where this Propulsion is at the Rear of the Ship that would be Facing Towards the Ground when the Ship moves to the Vertical Position.

Thanks for the Bump

I never really responded to this before, not so much as far as the Original OT but only as far as how the LV-426 Derelict/Signal is likely to NOT be there as of the Year 2105

If we look at ALIEN we see there are 3 Moons and the Gas Giant, now the Shot we see we cant Rule-Out if there are other Moons behind the Planet and Obscured from View, we are made aware the Moon is near the Zeta 2 Reticuli System about 39LY from Earth.

Prometheus as i discussed before on this Topic has some Flaws, it seem located in Space in a Area which would NOT be Zeta 2 Reticuli

But the Status Quo idea was that at VERY least LV-223 and LV-426 are Located in vicinity of the Zeta 2 Reticuli and Planet 4 likewise.

In Prometheus we are shown LV-223 on a Map Screen

There ONLY seems to be TWO Moons with Orbits Plotted.

In the Movie as they approach the Gas Giant we see TWO Moons, but the Next Shot we see TWO more with the Planet in the Shot too... which is a Puzzle as surely in the prior Shot a short while before we see TWO Moons but NOT the Planet.

This could be a Oversight.... or it could show that there are at least 4 Moons.

Ridley Scott has indicated that LV-223 and LV-426 are in the same System and the Fire and Stone Comics seemed to Indicate this too.

Despite there being a Number of Conflicts shown Visually in Prometheus.

Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are some Distance Apart but it is NOTHING really on a Galactic Scale like 6% of a Light Year.

But on a Solar System Scale the distance between Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 is 125+ Times Further apart than our Sun to Neptune.

I think some inconsistencies aside it appears that LV-223 and LV-426 are located in the Same System and likely the Same Orbit but while there are a few inconsistencies there is Room for Debate.