Comments (Page 178)

Indeed there is a lot we can only Speculate about..

The Engineer Conundrum really is just that, IF they was Infected prior to the Hollogram Scene, they did-not seem to be aware of any Infection, be it Black Goo, Neomorph like let alone Face Hugged..

We can only Speculate if at a Later Point they was Infected and Aware and Panicked, as the Drafts seemed to Indicate and also a Shot that we did not see.

If we IGNORE such things and only go by what we saw Theatrically then its more of a Mystery.

Which is WHY i wonder was there some Sabotage/Spike of their Drink/Air Supply.

They seemed to be Chest Busted, and by something that would be LARGER than a Xenomorph but NOT as Large as the Deacon (well Human Fetus Evolved).   We can only Speculate really.

The Derelict and Juggernaught are different Internally, the earlier Jon Spaights Draft indicates the Cryo-Pods are Standing and are NOT located in the Pilot Chamber, so we can maybe Speculate the Derelict has a Similar Layout or that it has only the PILOT.

I think it could be LIKELY that the Props for the Engineers were made in Relation to Jon Spaights Story, and they decided to keep them or Finish them off for Lindeloffs Story which we have NO answers for... But with Spaights the indication was Face Hugger Infection which the Engineers were ALL infected and Attempted to go into Cryo-sleep to Prevent this.

To TRY and look at your first point in your last reply, well indeed it seems odd about something EVOLVING in the Cargo Hold.

There was NO Urns on the Derelict, and surely Urns cant Change?

In Alien Covenant we see the Urns seem to disintegrate into a Mass of Cloudy Particles so Nothing remained of the Casing.... was this part of the Activation? Or because they HIT a Force Field (thats for another debate). 

The Neomorph Spore Pods grew from something being infected with the Black Goo.

If a Cargo Hold had something inside that could be Evolved as the Spore Pods were, and if the Urns had Activated/Exploded in the Cargo Hold... then MAYBE... what we could have is something that Evolves inside the Cargo Hold.

If a Engineer Ship had a Water Leak and a Infected Water Supply or a Leak in a Empty Cargo Hold, but some Black Goo had got into that HOLD and this Hold had Mold... we could Speculate that something like a Neomorph Spore would be Possible?

A Infection in a Water Supply could explain the Outbreak... if Leaked Water would then produce some Algae/Moss or Fungi or Mold etc... then this could EVOLVE into Something.

That is maybe the Best Way i can try and think how such a thing could Happen!

But if we IGNORE what RS had said then indeed the most likely Connection or how it appeared would have been either.

1) They Created, Engineered, Evolved something on LV-223 and Transported it to a Ship and ONE of those Ships was the Derelict.

2) The Derelict was Transporting Eggs to be used to Create/Experiment with on LV-223.

One of those seemed to look Visually what the Connection should/could be.

The only other way RS comment would make sense would be IF....... Something had Evolved in ONE Cargo Hold, then it Infected the Pilot, and then it had made its way into a Empty Hold to Lay the Eggs....

The Problems come from NOT really bothering to give a indication to HOW the Derelict/Juggernaught are Connected. 

 MonsterZero The ocean depths are actually closer to being a real Alien world than outer space sci fi can deliver. At any rate, it should be worth a watch.

If this movie took place on an alien world.. I would be all in! 

takes place on Earth? Yawn.

The tagline idea is neat! Under the Ocean Depths, who can take the pressure?

As for the Alien tagline, we actually heard Lambert scream and cry quite a bit!

HOWEVER......

It did-not need to be that way....

I began to work on 3 Prometheus Sequels... the First would not have had much about Engineers, or David or Shaw... but it would have Scenes that Flash Back to those.

The Next One which would have been my Prometheus 3 we Finally arrive at a Engineer World!   And it takes David and Dr Shaw a VERY LONG Time... say 100 Years. The Galaxy is a BIG PLACE!  The Distance to Zeta 2 (39LY) is Nothing in the Grand Scale of a Galaxy that at its Furthest Point A-B is 100'000 Light Years.

And the Engineers had Maps to other Galaxies and so the Scope was Massive!

I wont go into detail here about what my P3 was about as there was about 4-5 ideas for it that was really similar to each other.

I will just ASK these...

*Is the Earth the only Place with Humans (interacted with/created by Engineers).

*Would the Engineers put so much Time into Mankind to then DESTROY us all?   GOD had destroyed Mankind, but even he allowed Noah and his Family to Survive.

So there is the Scope for Humans or Very Similar to be elsewhere in the Galaxy, be that the Engineers had NOT put all the EGGS into One Basket (Earth) or that they had come to Rescue in a ARK of Sorts some Humans before they intended to PULL THE PLUG!

Could such a Human Colony/Civilization live in Harmony with the Engineers or a Handful of Engineer Watchers?

Do these Engineers know about LV-223, was it a Place that was always for that ONE Purpose, and IF SO/NOT what does these other Engineers know about it?

And what do the Humans they live among know about it?

How would those Engineers and Humans feel about David?

What if the LV-223 Engineers were different to the other Engineers, and what if the LV-223 kind were similar to HOW our David is to us?

Would these Engineers be concerned about David, a Immortal Superior being, would David be disappointed in these Engineers and how they would have a Great Fondness of Humans but a dislike for the LV-223 Engineers and David (Synthetic Creations).

Could we then learn a bit more about those LV-223 Engineers and a Rebellion?

Would some of the Engineers have concerns about David and his interest in the LV-223 Engineers and his Disapproval with Mankind?

Is LV-223 their Dirty Little Secret?  Is there another Agenda that those Engineers want hidden from the Humans they live with?

How would those Humans feel about the History of Mankind, our Religions, Gods... and what the Engineers had been up to on LV-223

These Humans not being told they are NOT alone, and that there are others in the Galaxy, and that the Engineers had intended to Destroy them...

And what Effect would Dr Shaw's Faith have on those Humans?

These are ALL points i was taking on with my Prometheus 3.

It was a case of WHO would be the ONE to KICK OFF!

*Engineers vs David due to Concerns about him?

*David to try and kill those Humans or Engineers? (maybe if he felt they would try and get rid of him).

*Engineers try to get rid of Dr Shaw after seeing the Negative Effect she has on the other Humans. (would David then Unleash Hell to Protect Her).

*Dr Shaw discover a Sinister Agenda these Humans are not aware of (i was thinking like some are Chosen to go to a Paradise, so it was very like the Movie THE ISLAND... only the Real Truth to the Off World Destination for them was Horrific.  Does she inform the Humans, and what would the Engineers then do?

So there was a LOT of what IF with how to continue and i just could not PIN-POINT a Single Whole Story that i liked..

But this shows that you COULD have gone to a FAR FAR FAR away Place where there are other Humans...

They dont always have to come from Earth or Weyland Yutani... the Prometheus Scope was Bigger than the 40LY Radius that the ALIEN Franchise was set in!

Could be both. The skull of an adult xenomorph has a ‘metallic’ sheen to it, or something like a crab’s shell.

Here’s an ancillary question: are xenomorphs hot or cold blooded, do you think? Creatures with exoskeletons are cold blooded. How would it have felt to Parker when the Alien grabbed him by the head, cool or warm? Of course, a xenomorph doesn’t have to play by the rules...

I think there are Problems you would FACE with any kind of Sequel that would include the Engineers in anything more than Flash Backs!

Firstly you have to come up with HOW the Humans can Interact with the Engineers, having a Synthetic Translate every Sentence could become Repetitive and Limiting.

Secondly its HOW and WHEN and WHERE do you come into contact with the Engineers.

Finally we have to look at How Many of the Engineers there are and their Outlook on Mankind, especially once some Humans turn up out of the Blue, Uninvited.

Picture this..... what if David and Dr Shaw had found another Juggernaught with all FOUR of the Crew Alive and in Stasis and WOKE them up.... or instead of Dr Shaw and David a incoming Human Mission to LV-223.

Going by the LV-223 Engineer reaction (Theatrical and Ridley Scotts intentions) then i doubt they would even give any Answers, they would likely just TEAR the Intruders up... or maybe they take some to Torture/Experiment on?

A similar Problem would occur with Planet 4, we dont know how those Guys would have Reacted, would they have reacted Hostile?  Who knows...  I think that would have been Interesting.... but then depending or regardless of how they would react, it would Conflict the Franchise because of WHY have we not seen them come back?

The Logical Conclusion would be that at some Point we would see DAVID.. Unleash Hell on them!

This was something that RS had indicated that would have Happened Regardless, but it seems we would have had more Interaction with the Engineers First.....

But then we got Alien Covenant, which appears to be NOT what Ridley Scott wanted but what FOX wanted from him.

Because not having a Xenomorph is something they felt was Missing.... but then we have to go back and look at the Alternatives!

Could a Movie Work that....

*Has only ONE Human Character Dr Shaw, and Rely on David to Translate for her?

*How many Engineers would they Discover and HOW would this impact the Movie?

So a Problem would be Human Characters... having a Movie that would be like say a Hours worth of like the Deleted Engineer talks to David Scene would not WORK!

Even if David could teach Dr Shaw their Language, or there was a way she could Communicate with them (they had some Technology)  then again a Movie with a Synthetic and a Single Human Character who would be Interacting with a Handful or many more Engineers, would again NOT work!

Well  such things would not interest many, and would be difficult to pull off....  Fans would also want Xenomorphs or Answers too...

Hence why i feel that AC we had a PLOT where Planet 4 was closer to Earth, so that it was in reach of a Human Ship so that more Human Characters/Fodder could be introduced!

I can see some similarities with the poster.

Apart from that i cant really see much of a Connection, it appears this Movie is more similar to Leviathan and Deep Star Six

While it does-not Connect to PROMETHEUS... thats not to say that they could not have made a Similar Movie that Connects to PROMETHEUS.   We had Ridley Scott suggest the Engineers had Seeded Many Worlds, and that they could have RESET Worlds over and over...

He even mentioned that their could have been other Civilizations before us that had to be Eliminated, and mentioned ATLANTIS.

So in Context to Underwater Fun and Prometheus, they could have explored a Movie where we DISCOVER the Long Lost City of ATLANTIS.... and indeed we Discover these GUYS had been on the Receiving End of the Engineers.

A Place Destroyed, and Buried at Sea.... what HORRORS would await?

What Horrors had the Engineers Unleashed and could any have Survived?

Or do we Discover some of the Species the Engineers wanted to Cleanse to make way for US?   Could this Long Lost Civilization be more Wicked/Evil than the Engineers and if AWOKEN would the Survivors want to have their World Back and also want to know where the Engineers got to/came from?

So indeed we could have explored such... we would have to remember conflicts with the ALIEN Franchise and so any such Discovery would be better to be made between the events of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.

We could even Uncover a Failed Mission, a Juggernaught Ship and Outbreak that they had to Cause some Massive Seismic Event to Bury the Ship and its Cargo!

I did when i was a kid and after i saw ALIEN (before Aliens) i had a Dream that i saw a Movie where a Xenonmorph had got on-board a Oil Rig and Ship as the Humans had Dug Up a Derelict Ship at the Bottom of the Sea.

(about 1985) and i legitimately thought it was a Sequel... only the Weapons/Technology was very 1980's and it had Ripley in it lol 

So i was confused as it was a Very Realistic Memory, did i see something Vaguely similar and my Imagination just added the Xenomorph and Ripley? lol

I guess in a Alternative Universe... such a thing could have been explored as a ALIEN Movie... what of the Tag Line?

Space is not the only Place your Screams are Drowned Out!

I think you are referring to the Necronom IV?

I liked the Ultramorph Concept that was based off it for the Alien Engineers Draft/Idea

It would have been Awesome to have seen similar on Screen.

I think we need to look beyond the Queen and Typical Aesthetic too, but this is what the Original Franchise gave us and while we see some Differences there was not a MASSIVE variation from ALIEN to Alien Resurrection.

I do suspect IF we get any ALIEN Movies than i think Disney will-not stray too FAR from the ALIENS Aesthetic/Design.

Alien Resurrection teased us with how you could have Hybrids and Failed Experiments.. the Concept works from Alien 5 seemed to indicate likewise...

I think Prometheus opened up a Unlimited Potential to give us different Forms of ALIEN.... but i do feel Disney will STICK to something we are more Familiar with.

Well, I suppose we could continue to speculate that the juggernauts' cargo holds were empty when they reached LV-223? It would seem that at least two went there to get the lethal supply - either eggs or pathogen. It seems unlikely that the urns transformed into eggs. They could have leaked and mutated some lifeform in the cargo hold but the urns would still be there (there are no urns when Kane enters the egg chamber).

It's possible that one juggernaut fetched the eggs from another pyramid and ended up as the Derelict and the pilot (Space Jockey) on LV-426. It's also possible, of course, that other juggernauts left LV-223 with the same purpose, either to Earth or some other worlds. We know that at least two failed their missions.

The real conundrum is the four Engineers lying in the cryo-pods, the pilot chair not raised and no pilot. They must have died (three of them) from the outbreak started on LV-223 and one was "lucky" to survive.

But it makes no sense that they are all lying there. Were all four of them waiting for take-off (auto-pilot)? You would suspect that one cryo-pod was empty (the pilot), similarly you could wonder what happened to the rest of crew on the Derelict. The "doors" were opened and there were no sign of facehuggers or xenomorphs.

My favorite is the second one, upper left to right. Make the elongated parts shorter and it would be very interesting. I do not think that they shall make something that looks like a queen because it has been in movies, comics and so on, get something else.

Big Dave

I am not interested in Shaw but they could have made better characters if they would have had someone that could write characters. Maybe she would have been alright if she would have been like in The Crossing. At least they could have had some Engineers survive instead of the total slaughter that it became.

Maybe but at least I would think that their culture could have been interesting. I would have liked to see more bio-mechanical things because how it was in AC was not very impressive. To see more about their technology could have been interesting. Prometheus had problems but I do not think that the Engineers were one of them, rather I have heard some podcast and read threads on forums where they have talked positively about the Engineers. We have some interest there even though maybe limited since it id difficult to know if those opinions are representative of the fandom or movie-goers as a whole.

"… but would rather see about their Bio-Mechanical Technology and HOW/WHEN they obtained this, and WHAT connection they had with LV-223 and those Ships…"

That would have been interesting, I still would like to see their connection to the Xeno-like monsters. In no way will I accept to have David as the creator of the monsters, sorry but that won't happen but that could be corrected by showing that David copied what came before or made his own version a lesser one.

Those are interesting questions that I am not sure if I have an answer to. Maybe to the Alien species home-world or the world where the eggs came from seems the most interesting to me.
A plot with the Engineers was interesting in itself even though the Engineers could have been explained better but the foundation was right I think.

"The Alien Covenant PLOT got around this.... it should have given more Information about the Engineers, and revealed that David had Created a Improved Xenomorph with some Clues to HOW the Original was obtained.."

But it made in such a way that made the movie less interesting than it could have been. I was looking forward to see more about the Engineers but this movie just screwed that up and instead it was about a sadistic robot. You are totally right about more about the Engineers and that David made his own version and how the original became what it is.

If they shall write a new prequel they need IMO

• Better human characters/a writer that knows how to make human characters
• Let Scott stick to directing, Not writing otherwise we will get another stupid David-movie. If he can not stop interfering in the writing they should get another director.
• Much less of David/androids
• More about the Engineers and by that I mean the Prometheus ones (not those in AC). Maybe we could have different kinds of Engineers.

What was also clearly inspired by the prequels is Netflix' Lost in space. The suits, the rover, and it had a holo orrery thingie in the first season. 

In regards to theories, one could argue that a crew from the Prometheus became the Night King ( yes the actor was in both) from Game of thrones. Maybe it could also be speculated that Planetos is LV-223.

Let's start the conspiracies! Alien/Prometheus/Covenant vibe and aesthetic but under the ocean floor.

Interestingly, an Alien queen was dragged to the ocean floor in AVP. BOM BOM BOM!

It does seem inspired by the Alien prequels. From the trailer, it will probably play out better as a horror movie- no doubt it will play off the fears of drowning and claustrophobia.

It is the darkest and grittiest version I have seen. It even gets a little uncomfortable at points. It was well worth the ride imo. I will buy the DVD if they release it.

Nice Images ;)

Does show our Xenomorph and Neomorphs from AC dont have a Exo-Skeleton look to them, but Internal Skeleton.

I am not sure we would explore the Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic as far as the Derelict/Space Jockey.

None of the other Movies in the Original Franchise really went back after ALIEN (Aliens Extra Scene slightly).

I think DISNEY would just concentrate on the Xenomorph alone, but i am not sure they would SWAY to FAR from how it has been Portrayed in a Majority of the Movies, Games, Novels and Comics.

And so they would look like the Various NECA Xenomorphs (not inc anything from Prequels) and so i dont Expect anything thats Vastly Different like the Neomorph and Deacon were.

More chance we get Normal Xenomorphs with slight differences and Colors

". By Engineers I mean similar to those in Prometheus, not in Covenant because they looked less impressive in AC. I would like to see more about their culture, their science, religion, warfare and their connection to the monsters"

I think discovering some of these things would be Interesting but i dont think we can IGNORE the Planet 4 Engineers, i think we have to EXPLORE as to WHY they looked different.

I think the Prometheus Engineers are more like the Replicants were, and so a Hubris Tale about how those Engineers either Created a Sub-Creation to Carry Out Tasks... or that another Group of Engineers had Evolved themselves..

I think either such ARC could be how to expand on the Engineers.

We can also see that our FUTURE is to Carry Out the same Hubris in the Creation of David, or IF some Humans would Genetically Engineer themselves as a Super-Human Race.

In either case then Mankind would be seen as Inferior and a PLOT by these Genetically Engineered Humans or AWOL Synthetics could be a likely Outcome...

And so maybe the same Happened between those LV-223 Engineers and the ones on Planet 4?

If we look at David's Story... i think this would and should be CLOSE to the STORY of the LV-223 Engineers.

LV-223 Engineers Rebel, and they TRY and Create something NEW that is NOT in the Image of their Inferior Creators who they may find a Mockery..   The LV-223 Experiments are BORN!

The same Process happens to David, and he takes the Engineers Experiments to Further Create something that is NOT in the image of his Creator... and the Planet 4 Experiments are BORN!

The Hierarchy of the Engineers Return, they Discover how Mankind had Created a Superior Being.. (David) and how this Superior Being had Created a more Superior Destroyer (Xenomorph)

And this incoming Species (or LV-223 Type Engineers) then decide to Create a Amalgamation of David and his Xenomorph.... on LV-223

But someone ATTEMPTS to Prevent this and DESTROYS LV-223 but ONE Ship manages to Escape but the Destruction of LV-223 Creates a Temporary Tear in Space/Time that sends this SHIP to Crash on LV-426 some Thousands of Years ago.

I feel thats the BEST way to Take the Engineers and PLOT now...

We can have another Movie SET after Alien 3 or Alien R where some Humans will END-UP on another Very Very Distant Engineer/Space Jockey World to Expand on them more.

I dont think some Fans would want this, and i dont think Disney would bother... they would rather have Revelations that the Xenomorph is a Ancient Parasitic Egg Laying Organism the Space Jockey Discovered...

And it will be about QUEENS and EGGS and Marines.

I would say the Engineers are DEAD!

"This could be interesting to see but it would have to need the human journey at the center of the movie"

This is the BIG PROBLEM they Faced with the WHOLE Plot as far as WHO the Space Jockey are...

If the Space Jockey were a ALIEN Species, who looked NOTHING like Humans, then what we have to then look at is the Following...

*How does any Humans end up in Contact with these Alien Beings, by pure Coincidence and LV-426 or a Next Door Moon?  As to be lead by the Space Jockey SOS would just be a ALIEN re-hash of sorts.

*How do the Humans Interact with these beings, would a Alien Species who has NO distant contact with Mankind even be able to Communicate, would they want to?

*How would we discover what the Agenda of the Space Jockey Race was, and WHY they had the Cargo and WHERE was they taking it?

Because then a Sequel would take us where? To this Alien Species Home World?, to the Species they intended to USE the EGGS on?  Or to the World the Eggs came from?

I guess we never needed to see Xenomorphs Talk to Humans and so maybe the Space Jockey would have NO-NEED either and have even Less Interaction than the SUPER-PREDATOR did from The Predator!

They came up with the Engineers Plot so at least there is a Connection, a Reason for HOW/WHY any Humans would come into Contact with a World/Race related to the Derelict.  And have some way of Communication.

With the SEQUEL... they then Faced another Problem...

HOW would any Engineers React towards Dr Shaw and David and then HOW do they introduce more Human Characters...

The Alien Covenant PLOT got around this.... it should have given more Information about the Engineers, and revealed that David had Created a Improved Xenomorph with some Clues to HOW the Original was obtained..

But ALAS!

I think that was a Dilemma they Faced with a Prometheus 2.

*David and Dr Shaw arrive at the Engineers Home World.

*Are these Engineers going to be welcoming them open Arms?

*Dr Shaw would be willing to take that Chance, but David would wanted to SURVIVE and if he had any SINGLE doubt that the Engineers would RIP his Head Off, then i feel he would have NOT taken that Chance.

So it was LIKELY he was going to BOMB! them...

We could have had some Survivors, we could have had Dr Shaw kept Alive and she would ASK what Happened and David maybe lies to her..... UNTIL she discovers the Truth and maybe a Survivor to TWO...

Something Similar could have Happened but we are just NOT shown this Period of Events that Transpired in the Weeks/Months following the Bombardment.

I just feel that MOST Fans would not want to see much about the Culture as far as Ancient History, but would rather see about their Bio-Mechanical Technology and HOW/WHEN they obtained this, and WHAT connection they had with LV-223 and those Ships...

Well they could attempt to FIX her Character rather than PULL THE PLUG like they did with Dr Shaw... they would have to ask HOW does she play a PART in a Sequel, what are the Plans and Screen Time.

The only way that would work and NOT be a Conflict to David's Plans would be if he KEEPS her some Place, while he CHARADES around as Walter to the other Colonist.

And a Escaping Daniels or a discovery is when David's Charade is UP....then he has to RESORT to Extreme Measures to Clean Up the Mess.... or Silence those who Discover his Secret before they can Inform everyone else.

Otherwise she would have to be KILLED OFF or we have a Movie that Revolves around Daniels and David... which is the same Dilemma they faced with a Movie about David and Dr Shaw.

I dont think either would appeal to the Fans and so as i have said a number of Times we are better off getting a Sequel that would BY-PASS what David does between leaving Planet 4 and when another group of Humans would be arriving at Origae-6.. 

Much like how Alien Covenant had BYPASSED what happened since Dr Shaw and David had left LV-223 until the Arrival of the Covenant Ship.

The Problem we have could be a Repeat of Alien Covenant, in that we would KILL OFF a Main Character Off-Screen (Dr Shaw/Daniels).  And then to not Expand on the Persons Responsible for Horrors of the previous Movie (Engineers/David respectfully).

So then your introducing a NEW set of Characters who will arrive at say Origae-6 and discover Horrors and Davids Life-less Body.... so he gets  a Cameo like Bishop did in Alien 3.

Its then a case of HOW MANY of these New characters Survive the Next Installment, and do they make it to another Movie and HOW MANY more Movies until we get to ALIEN?

This is WHY they are in a Pickle at the Moment.... and i dont think we would get any Conclusion... more chance of a REBOOT in 2029

I'm pretty sure the newborn neomorph that erupted from Hallet's mouth had semi-transparent skin, it's just hardly visible because of the blood.

However, I didn't notice any transparency in the newborn neomorph that erupted from Ledward's back. It had pale skin. Idk is it because of the lighting in the room?

The Chestburster had transparent skin, its bones and organs were visible.

You can also tell by the odd studio practical puppets.

Indeed the Intention appeared to be something more Transparent but that was not possible with  the Technology/Effects back in late 70's

Good Point regarding the Deacon as this had a Darker Pigment than the Neomorph.

Some of the Experiments in David's Workshop had a Pale/Fleshy Look, like the Neomorph but others had that Greyish look that the Hammerpedes had.

The Adult Neomorph did have a Darker/Greyish Pigment than when it was Newborn, and so as the Organisms Age maybe Pigment Changes?

However the Xenomorph Chest Buster in AC and Deacon in Prometheus had a Darker Pigment than the Neomorph Newborns and Xenomorph Chest Buster from ALIEN at least.

So all we can do is Speculate... its likely those who worked on the Project never had any Reason to any differences.

I will have to check it out, thanks for the Share...

Hope Everyone had a Very Good Holiday Period ;)

I think there is a lot we can Speculate about... it really depends on what Evidence we use....  I think we have to remember that Ridley Scott should be the Biggest Source of Information, and also the Theatrical Cut..... which he claims is his Directors Cut..

By that i mean RS intended to portray the Engineers on LV-223 as Aggressive SOB's who had Created Evil Bacterial Drums of $"%£ has he puts it... 

So we also then have to Consider what David had said, which was these Engineers had intended to go to Earth, before things went to POT!

We know those Dead Engineers had been gone for 2000 Years give or take, we can assume from David and also what RS had said that they was in the Process of Preparing to Unleash the Black Goo on Earth (at very least) before things THEN WENT TO POT.

The Juggernaught Engineer Scene we then have to assume took place before the Outbreak...

The Scene seemed to Indicate the Engineers at this point were very CALM... there was NO signs of Panic or Danger. We see that TWO Engineers arrive to the LEFT of David, and then TWO more to the RIGHT...  the other Engineers appear to spend most their Time touching the Cryo-Pods, so they must be setting them Ready to be Occupied.

The ONE Engineer (Survivor) instead is in the Command Seat, and operates/activates the Orrery Map and he appears to be Calm, we do see another Engineer looking at the Orrery Map and Pointing at certain things in the Map.  It appears they TARGET Earth, but we ant rule out if the Ship has Multiple Destinations.  Unless that other Engineer is the ONE who at that point Selected the Destination?

We can assume the Last Engineer who was in the Control Chair was the LAST of the Engineers to enter Cryo-sleep, and it seems those Engineers are NOT aware they are Infected, or any signs of being in a Rush or Panic and so at this POINT there is NO OUTBREAK.

We can only ASSUME that Engineer would be the one to ACTIVATE the Pilot Chair to take off.. and have to ask WHY the Ship never took off?

Surely the Process would have been to Activate the Pilot Chair, Activate the Hanger Doors and then Pilot the Juggernaught into Space and then go into Cryo-Sleep until they arrive at their Targeted Worlds...

So there is a lot of Mystery that we can only Speculate on.

*The Ship could have came from some place else and then DOCKED on LV-223, but it would seem if so it was in the Hanger for a While and not just a Case of a Quick STOP OFF..

*We Cant rule out that if the Ship had docked on LV-223 for a Number of Hours or Days, that something had got on the Ship or Contaminated the Cargo Hold). But if we go for the above TWO points, then WHY would a Ship arrive with some Cargo Left, and then Top-Up the Cargo?

*So it would be more likely that the Ship either Arrived and Docked or was already Docked for Weeks/Months, while the Cargo was being Loaded to the Ship.  The Engineers then began to Enter the Ship and SET-UP the Mission, its Destination, the Cryo-Pods and then 3 of the Engineers had Entered the Cryo-Pods...

BEFORE THINGS WENT TO POT!

We can then only Speculate a Few Things...

1) During the Final Process of Launching the Mission, the Last Engineer detected something was WRONG... and he had Entered Cryo-Sleep...  But then WHY did he Survive, and IF he detected something was Wrong with the Cargo, then WHY was the SHIP not Quarantined so the Outbreak is Confined to that SHIP?

2) During the Final Process of Launching the Mission their was a OUTBREAK on LV-223 in the Outpost and the SHIPS where put on LOCK-DOWN.  But then we have to ask was the Last Engineer just LUCKY? and HOW would the Outbreak have infected the other Engineers if the OUTPOST was put on Lock Down?

So to me it looks like some kind of Sabotage has to be the Best Explanation Still.... the Extra Scenes may support this... but to Ignore them.... then maybe some Sabotage could have Happened prior to the Engineers making their way to the Ships....

Our Last Engineer either being in on the ACT... or he was just Lucky to Not have been Infected...

Looking at how CALM those Engineers were, and if we assume ONCE they had Set-Up the Cryo-Pods, then about Few Hours or Less after the Hologram Scene they surely should have DEPARTED on their Mission.

So then we have to look at HOW can Engineers be Infected but be Unaware and also something that would not be a INSTANT infection, well no Symptoms for a Few Hours.

The ONLY thing we have seen similar would be Holloways Infection.  Which to Infect a lot of Engineers in this way without their knowledge looks more like a Sabotage rather than a Accidental Outbreak.

Either way something on a Smaller Scale like Holloways Infection where a small Part of the Substance infects a Water or Air Supply could well be the likely Culprit.

To me it is about the interest of something that I do not understand. Combine this with violence and terror and it becomes a horror movie so this is why I watch the Alien movies (why the first three work for me). DK has a point that it is about experience it from a safe distance. Unfortunately the prequels have removed some of the mystery from it, which is another reason why they have mostly failed even though we can try to ignore them. Both the monster, and the human characters got to work.

Sorry for bumping this thread but I have not been here for a while. I am not very interested in Daniels since I never understood what her personality was. Maybe she did not get enough screen-time or she was not well-written.

Maybe she could be in it by have a smaller role compared to Covenant because killing off the main character two movies in a row would seem bad I think even though she is not that great.

"If David would try and PASS OFF as our Friendly Walter, to the Colonist and Tennessee then Daniels would be a Thorn in Davids Side... as she would Reveal who he is!"

Yeah but that is assuming that the movie would be all about David, and I do not want that, not one bit. They tried that in AC and look where that got us. The franchise is almost sinking because of it. Even the shorts if we take them for what they are, are better than Covenant.

Hopefully they will go back to the more Giger-inspired if they will do another Alien-movie. Unfortunately it looked like another stone-based architecture in AC, it looked boring. I would like for them to go back to the bio-mechanical style or at least something similar.

The ambiguity/alien-ness of it is very interesting and also kind of needed I think. Alien is something. . . err, alien/unknown so they need to keep that and not over-explain things. Not sure about how it will be now with Disney though.

That could have been interesting but I am not very sure if it would have been an interesting movie. I wish that they would have been more like those in Prometheus, they were just better.

Maybe it would have been better if David would not have bombed the Engineers but then what to replace it with and also how to keep it Alien? I mean Alien as in the feeling as the first three movies. There could have been a way to do that but I am not sure how.

An Engineer society could have been interesting to see. Unfortunately Alien Covenant removed any chance to get more information about their society, that would have been awesome to see.

Shaw could have worked if she would have been written better. I say this with how the characters in AC came across, if they would have gotten Shaw right then there would have another character to give a damn about because they were too few in AC.

I can imagine that the Engineers would be concerned about mankind and do what the Engineer in Prometheus would do. This could be interesting to see but it would have to need the human journey at the center of the movie.

It would be bad if the Engineer thing is killed off, that was one of the things that Prometheus did right. Unfortunately they were removed from AC apart from that short scene it the beginning. Hopefully Disney will not take this as the important thing is the Xeno, that would be a mistake.

Keep the Engineers, improve the characters, and keep a clearer tie to Alien compared to what Prometheus did. By Engineers I mean similar to those in Prometheus, not in Covenant because they looked less impressive in AC. I would like to see more about their culture, their science, religion, warfare and their connection to the monsters. Throw Alien Covenant in the trash-can and start from Prometheus is a possibility.

Not interested in a re-boot of the Alien movies. Maybe make something that is tied to the company in some way. An Engineer spin-off could be interesting. Remove the android angle because that is boooring, at least if it would be like it is now with no human characters to care about.

As long as they do not get the human characters right it will be dead to me but of course the story must be interesting too. I recently re-watched Alien 3 and I really like it, that was the last time that they did many human characters right. Even those that do not have big parts in it do their best to get it right. Hell even those that had small parts in Alien 3 made a better job than most of those in Prometheus and Covenant. Keep Scott far from the writing because that is not what he is good at. The humans and their journey and what they go through is what the whole franchise is about to me, not the Xenos or the Engineers.

Why can't they make characters that are at least close to the first three? Something is wrong about the characters in the prequels but I am not sure why. There has to be someone out there that can write the characters so they are at least somewhat relatable because we have not had that in this franchise for so long and that is why the prequels have failed this far, despite that they are good visually and that they have interesting themes but that is not enough for me.

The Xenos is not what it should be about but at least they should not be done by David, that he was responsible for the original version. Having him as the creator sucks and is one of the biggest mistakes that they have done in the prequels.

Having another queen is boring, it is good that the prequels have avoided that. The goo is interesting and I would rather have that than another movie where we see another queen that has been done to death if you ask me. As flawed as AC is at least they tried the spores which was interesting.

Please do not make a movie that retcons Alien 3, Alien Resurrection is another thing though.

It is either Xmas or past depending where you live. Guy Pearce and the cast delivered the goods on this one. It is long but deep and rich with a great story and memorable characters. It also works as a non holiday movie. Good stuff.

There are dialogue parts to bicker about whether they are nods to David or Prometheus if you dig deep.

We are told by Ash that the face hugger has a habit of replacing its outer layers with polarised silicon, a dark metallic element. The chestburster apparently goes through a similar process, since it wasn't black when it leaped out of Kane's body.

Why it would do this is anyone's guess, but maybe the silicon adds considerable to the strength of the Alien's exoskeleton. Maybe a result of David's tinkering?

Inherited Traits?

There was definitely a significant change from the Neomorph to the Protomorph in color when compared. 

The Deacon on LV-223 was also different (unique) in regards to comparison to it's Xenomorph counterparts.

I suppose it's possible that the juggernaut landed on auto-pilot and that they never got out of the cryo-pods? They were attacked by something from the cargo hold before they landed and this spread to the other Engineers on LV-223? Or something from LV-223 attacked them before they had time to exit the cryo-pods?

Scified members vs spammers:https://gfycat.com/delectableuncommonhypacrosaurus-ready-plalyer-one-dance-scene-mechagodzilla

turn on the volume.

Yeah, the main thing was the visual. Giger was undoubtedly inspired by images such as this one of Percival Lowell scanning the heavens...

I think that is a Good Point...

I think it depends on HOW we look at the Movie/Engineer maybe he decided or was Tasked to Wait just in case anyone Turns up?

If we go by the Theatrical Cut then the likely Answer is he was just Lucky to not be Infected, and he either Forgot to set his Wake-Up Alarm or it Failed... or he Choosed to Stay behind in case any comes back..

I find that last point unlikely, as if his ONLY intention was to Destroy us, then he surely would have Carried this out at some Other point... so i would say in this case when he went into Cryo-Sleep he had OVERSLEPT ;)

Indeed it does seem their Ships are more Manually Controlled but would have a Auto-Pilot of Sorts.

Certainly that is the Conclusion that i arrive at, it appears that its NOT required once the Juggernaught is in Space and has a Destination Set, but it is required to Take Off/Land and so it acts like the Landing Gear on a Plane... so ONCE the Ship is in Orbit the Pilot Chair can Retract back into Floor.

I would say for this Purpose there was NO real need for the Telescopic look of the Device, if say has a set of Controls and some Screen or other way to Communicate Visually with the Pilot.

Looks really COOL though... Epic Set Piece.

Like some of the Detail given by some of you Guys, MonsterZero, Hox and Ingeniero ;)

Certainly that is the conclusion that i arrive at, it appears that its NOT required once the Juggernaught is in Space and has a Destination Set, but it is required to Take Off/Land and so it acts like the Landing Gear on a Plane... so ONCE the Ship is in Oribit the Pilot Chair can Retract back into Floor.

The below video slows down to give us a look at the Orrery and it's components.  I hope that this assists in the above, very impressive discussion.

The Orrery

The apparent glass beads at the top of the Orrery are shown below from the outside and inside.  

The supporting structures connected to the ring above this transparent ceiling can be seen in both images below as well. 

A Double Helix

Additional Angles