New Replies (Page 178)

Holloway saying "this system has A sun", that doesnt automatically exclude, that the system can also have a second sun. The statement is "at least one sun", so it says nothing about, if it is binary or not. Also binary star systems arent close together most of the time. The two suns then are (very) far away from each other. The hologram is too closed zoomed in that it would show a binary star pair. Ergo, it is not a paradox at all. A wide binary star system, as here, can be thousands of AU apart.

The wiki actually also states THAT:

"Zeta 2 Reticuli is a wide binary star system in the southern constellation of Reticulum 39.17 light years from Earth and the location of LV426 and LV223, both planetary bodies are around separate gas giants in and near the binary star system."

For Zeta Reticuli, this actually is: "The distance between the two stars is at least 3,750 AU, so their orbital period is 170,000 years or more." 3,750 AU is around 0.06 light years apart. Or around 22 light days. Thats a lot. Pluto is just around 40 AU away from our sun.

In the first script of Prometheus though, it was hinted, that the pilot of the Engineer ship was infected by a face hugger, and therfor got into stasis. Then when he tries to start the ship, he dies and the ship crashs. This indicates, that they mostly wanted actually this pilot be the space jockey, and LV223 and LV426 be the same plant. But they changed it, with now some logic flaws. Using the wors "sun" is btw nonsense, it would be "a star", because "sun" is just the name of our star in the sol system.

Your Questions are Hard to Answer in Context to Alien Covenant.... prior to Alien Covenant they was NOT that Hard to get a Answer ;)

I can try and Answer if we go back prior and ignore Alien Covenant ;) but this means these Answers may seem Logical prior to 2017 but are a bit MOOT now.

"1. Where did the goo come from"

Thats the 64 Million $$$ Question, we just dont really know and we can only Endlessly Speculate.  It likely was Obtained or Created but by WHO? is a Mystery, at the Very Least it was USED as a Creation/Hybridization Tool.

"2. How does it work"

Again a Mystery if we look at Prometheus is a bit Ambiguous, but if we look at Prometheus and look at the Scarabs in Jon Spaights Draft and imagine the GOO is the same... Then it seems the GOO can Break Down a Organism into a Substance that Contains/Stores the Organisms DNA and this Substance then Passes on this DNA Traits onto Organisms it comes into Contact with.

"3. Does it affect different life-forms in different ways and if so how is that difference"

I would say it seems that it depends on HOW Much Goo the Organism is in Contact with, and HOW it comes into Contact with it. I would assume the URNS contain the Result of a Organism that was Sacrificed (Sacrificial Goo) that is Related to the Mural or a Precursor to it.

"4. How do we we get the Xeno"

A Mystery but likely as a Result of the Black Goo and Various Experiments on LV-223... if we look at maybe what David did on Planet 4... well i would suspect prior to AC the idea was the Engineers had done similar on LV-223... or that the Xenomorph was a Unintended Evolution of those Experiments or Infection.

"5. Are those on LV426 the only ones that exist by that time"

If we are talking about Ignoring Alien Covenant... then who knows, as with (5) it depends if the Xenomorph was a Engineered Experiment in which case, we CANT rule out there being more Ships with them or Variants of Xenomorphs.  If it is a Unintentional Result or Evolution then the Derelict could be the ONLY one to have those Eggs.

"6. How do we get from egg-morphing to a queen"

Thats just a case of Abandoning One idea for a Queen, we could Speculate that the Xenomorph in ALIEN and ALIENS come from Different Cargo Holds and are Variants with different Procreation Methods.  Or that the Egg Morph would lead to a Queen or a Royal Face Hugger, or that the Queen was a Mutation/Evolution.

Jon Spaights work gives a more Simple Explanation... here is what i take from Alien Genesis/Engineers.

The Engineers have/use a Creation Tool for Extracting and then Passing on a Organisms DNA onto other Organisms to Create Hybrids.

They Discover a Organism that they had NOT Created and see the Results of this Organism, and become Interesting in it.  They then use their Creation Tool to Obtain its DNA and Create Various Hybrids from it... which results in 8 Different Variants of the Xenomorph Organism.  They intended to USE on Mankind to Eradicate us.

This Organism they Encountered but did-not Create would likely be the Holloway Organism in Spaights Work...  and its maybe the Organism in Question as FAR as Prometheus is what was on the Frescos!

The Derelict/Juggernaught i think is another Mystery, i FIND that Carrying Eggs as a Weapon is Flawed... and surely they DONT drop them down from a Height?

Looking at LV-223 and the Sacrificial Engineer Scene (inc Deleted) i SUSPECT the Juggernauts are NOT a Bio-Weapon Carrying Ship....  they WHERE just Advanced Seeding Ships.... that could also RESET a World...

But the whole LV-223 Horrors and Xenomorph are a Perversion/Creation by some Fallen/Twisted Engineers.

EDIT:

I will add that the LV-223 and LV-426 Connection could have been explored in a Number of Ways.... rather than Alien Covenants Set-Up....

A Sequel that went to LV-223 and was NOT about David/Dr Shaw could have Provided more Answers... that would KEPT the Origins as Ancient...   Then we could have had RS go and make his Engineers Story with David and Dr Shaw and have it NOT have to Connect to LV-223 or the Xenomorph.

But ALAS!  

Shame as i could come up with a Number of Ways prior to AC that LV-223 connected to LV-426, that would also tied the Engineers into it as far as WHY they was Fallen... well those on LV-223.

Thanks for the Reply...

I think things are in a Pickle at the Moment, it seemed that the Intention was to STEER away from ALIEN... sadly in HINDSIGHT that was NOT going to please Fans as Prometheus did-not Satisfy what Fans Expected.

They for the Most Part they expected more Answers about the Xenomorph Origins/Connections, it did-not mean we needed Carbon Copy Xenomorphs or to see the Derelict Event, we needed to see HOW things connected more and the MOVIE never had any ALIEN MONSTER Killing Scenes.

A Introduction of a ALIEN Monster that would have Interacted with and KILLED say 2-4 Crew but also did something to give us a Clue to the Xenomorph.

For Example... Imagine if as they got to DEAD Milburn, we saw a Hammerpede Attempt to Attack and get SHOT... we see its Body Split Open to Reveal either TINY Eggs that are similar to Xenomorph Eggs... or Tiny little Organisms.

Then Milburn goes on to Produce a Chest Buster or Head Buster that is more like the Baby Neomorph and this Escapes... and is Encountered Latter as a Adult.

You would see more of a Connection with ALIEN.

But we GOT what we GOT...

So on to a Sequel...

I would say after Prometheus here was some Questions the Alien/Aliens fans would have wanted...

*More Clues to HOW the stuff on LV-223 Connects to the Xenomorph.

*What happened on LV-223 in the Past.

*WHY was there those Experiments and what was the MURAL about.

*A Movie that gives some ALIEN Monsters to Attack the Humans.

How do you do that with a Movie that Follows Dr Shaw and David to go and TALK to some Engineers..... especially with a Movie where RS wants to STEER AWAY from ALIEN!

The Answer in HINDSIGHT.... a Prometheus Sequel that sends a Yutani Ship to LV-223 (or Weyland) where we can get a more ALIENY Monster Flick, with more Clues to what Happened on LV-223 and HOW it connects to the Xenomorph.

A Movie that would Please the Fans of Alien/Aliens and CLOSE the Door to ALIEN...

Then they make another Prometheus Sequel that goes off where David and Dr Shaw are going.... which is to a Engineer Related World that would have HUMANS as i described before.

A Movie that details the Engineers Ancient History and Agenda, and tackle the Creation/Seeding Purpose... but then also to tackle what LV-223 was and the LV-223 Engineers Fall....

At this POINT we then have Prometheus as the Bridge.. with ONE Sequel that goes to LV-223 and Connects more to ALIEN and another that Explores the Engineers.

Then judging BOTH movies, FOX could then see which to they Expand on....  

What the Company do next as far as LV-223 or what Horrors in the past also spawned from LV-223 (take us to another Infected/Targeted World)

Continue with the Aftermath of Dr Shaw and Davids discoveries in a FAR FAR FAR away World that Humans from Earth have NO chance of Reaching... thus a Unconnected Spin Off Franchise!

Leave both as a Prometheus Anthology and just move back to ALIEN Franchise movies set after the Events of ALIEN.

But we ENDED up with Alien Covenant that i feel was a MISTAKE!

Regarding the Engineers....

I think Thoughts_Dreams that indeed the Bio-Mechanical Engineers from Prometheus seemed more Interesting.

They looked more Superior to Humans, its a Shame they never looked like 9-10ft Tall, but they looked Enigmatic none the less....

Our Planet 4 Engineers did look too close to Humans...

I think there is a STORY to be Told regarding the History and Differences between them, that can be explored in a Number of Ways...

I think you can have BOTH kinds of Engineers, and it would Work, but they have to MERGE the Ancient looking Planet 4 and the more Technological LV-223 Aesthetics...

Planet 4 did have some signs of Technology and we NEVER got to look inside every Building and so Inside we may have seen some?   David's notes did seem to show they relied more on Ancient Technology for the most Part.

They was basically acting like the Engineers version of say Amish Community and so maybe discovering WHY would be interesting.

As Mankind Evolves... we Embrace Technology, we do not devote ourselves to Religion or Rituals anymore, the way we ACT and Live is Different compared to say 500+ Years ago.

While there are many Benefits to HOW we Live today, there are Downfalls.... Imagine in 500 Years what we could be like?

The Elites Genetically Engineer themselves or Create Clone Bodies to USE when they Die/Injured (Movies like The Sixth Day and The Island) what becomes of the Rest of Mankind?

Do we Engineer Bio-Weapons that get out of Control, like what happened on LV-223 or like Various other Movies that lead to Disease etc... you could say like the Movie I am Legend

Do we Eventually Nuke our Planet to Death.... reducing it to like the Movie Planet of the Apes 1968 or does the Fall Out create Mutants and the Few Human Survivors are Pitted with the Few Mutants for who will take over the Earth?

Do we Genetically Experiment on Apes and get like the Planet of the Apes Reboot?  Or do we Genetically Engineer Super Soldiers who then TURN on us... much like a Universal Solider meets Blade Runner?

Or do we take A.I and Robotics too FAR and get a Terminator, I-Robot and Matrix like Scenario

Various Sci-Fi have touched on such HUBRIS of all of the above.... such Potential Miss-givings for Playing GOD!

None of these Threats applied to the Dark Ages before the Advent of Mankinds Industrial/Technological Revolution.

But ALL of them cant be RULED out if we let Science get too Out of Hand...  However IF we all abandoned our Technology and Science and Lived like the AMISH there would be NO THREAT of these things coming to PASS!

Could those Planet 4 Engineers have done the Same... after a Calamity they decided to Abandon Most of their Technology and Ways and Revert back to Ritual/Religious Ways?

Now lets IMAGINE if one of those Scenarios had Befallen Earth in the FUTURE but before things WENT so FAR to END Mankind.... some of us Escaped and onto a NEW Island or Planet like the Covenant Ship was attempting.

Could we decide to then ABANDON our Technology/Ways that we had Evolved to from say the 1800's On-wards?   To DO-SO in Order that the Calamity cant be Repeated again?

Maybe we would?

If we was Technologically the same as we was prior to say 1500 you could say the WORLD and Total Population would be NO-WHERE near the Dangers of Extinction or Irreversible Damage as we are NOW.... Technology lead us to this Path we are on NOW..

So similar could be used to Explain the Planet 4 Engineers, the other Explanations are they are a Colony of Genetic Stock for Seeding before things went to POT.

Or also that the LV-223 Engineers are either a Created Sub-Creation like the Replicants and David are to Mankind who have Rebelled... or they are a Faction of Engineers who Engineered themselves as Superior and became Perverted with their Quest to Enhance themselves and become the Ruling Faction of Engineers.

There is a HISTORY of the Engineers as far as the Planet 4 and LV-223 Engineers that could be Explored in a Number of Ways....   SADLY i cant ever see us Exploring it all.

"Ridley thought that the beast was cooked, I would like to see data that supports that the fans think so"

I think Ridley Scott was looking at it from how OVERDONE the Beast has been done, and i dont think he means as FAR as the Movies Alone.... we have seen Xenomorphs kind of done to Death... the Traditional Kind.

In regards to Movies the General Public would not get the same Impression of the Xenomorph that was from the First TWO Movies....  to a degree he is RIGHT in that Alien Resurrection did kind of Reduce the Xenomorph, i mean the Aliens were dispatched by the Team of Essentially Space Pirates...  and the Queen well she was KILLED by the disappointing New Born with EASE!

Did the Xenomorphs gain back their Fearsome Reputation in AVP?  Not so much.... and we best NOT mention AVPR!

So what RS was looking at is there is only so MUCH you can do with the Xenomorph before you have to think about other things.. something New/Fresh and Unexplored, which is WHY he felt the Engineers/Space Jockey should be the way to go....  Especially if the Xenomorph to them was just a Engineered Bio-Weapon... we could look at what else is there about the SPACE JOCKEY and their Agenda besides Eggs and Queens...

IF they had just done a Alien Prequel that 100% showed what happened to the Derelict and we got the Xenomorphs Origins instead of Prometheus and so we HARDLY touch upon the Space Jockey..... then ONCE you have the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY they Ended Up on the Derelict, its a case of WHATS NEXT?

As far as the Xenomorph!

The Prequel Plot opened up the Engineers, a Ancient Race who had Seeded Many Worlds.... HOW MANY other Races had they Created?  How many Conflicts had they been involved in and How Many Horrors had they Created/Unleashed.

Rather than Confine it to the BOX of ALIEN and Egg, Face Hugger, Chest Buster, Xenomorph and Queen with Very Limited Variation between them.

Ridley Scott had said prior and after Alien Covenant that it was maybe a mistake to have Drifted Too Far from the Beast, he felt you could give it a FEW more Rounds, but you have to Evolve Him, you have to look at other Alternatives and ways of Procreation.

I think he is Right with that Statement...

But you will have Fanboys who dont like Change.... who wont Accept Change, like with Star Wars there was Complaints about the Clone Troopers, the First Order Troopers and Sith Troopers because some Fanboys just like their EP4-EP6 versions and so Rogue One pleased them!

A bit of CHANGE is Good as long as you dont STRAY too FAR away so you can see some Connection with the Originals.

Regarding ALIEN it is about the Characters as we will be seeing the Horror through their Perspective, i think with ALIEN and ALIEN 3 you could replace the Xenomorph with a Neomorph or Deacon and the Movies would still have WORKED!

I think with ALIENS and AVP etc then they would not work as well as the Xenomorphs.

@Chris

I agree i dont think this is the END of the Franchise, i am sure we would get another ALIEN Movie eventually, the Subject i was talking about with he OT is that i dont think we would ever Explore the Engineers Background much as far as Depth, such as the WHOLE.. Gardeners of Space, the Chariots of the Gods..

And so i fee IF we do see them again, it would only be limited to seeing them just as we saw the Engineers in the Fire and Stone Comics and so we would just get these LV-223 Types who just Rock Up and Kick Ass....  and who will NOT ask Questions or Give Answers.....

And so i think we would UNLIKELY see more Interaction or Information about the Engineers, than we did with the Predators in the Various Movies they had appeared in.

Which i fee would be a Shame.....

Indeed Hox

I got the Impression when i First saw the Pilot Chair in ALIEN and for Many Years after, that it was INDEED some kind of Telescope of Sorts for Pinpointing Locations/Destinations.

But the More i looked into it say the Last 10 Years and also since Prometheus was that to Imagine the Pilot Room as some kind of Observatory did mean the View was Restricted due to the Size of the Domed Section.

So the Telescopic Apparatus of the Chair would have a Restricted View through the TOP of the Ship, that would NOT fit the purpose of locating Star Systems and the Orrery Scene in Prometheus kind of made such a Idea a bit MOOT anyway....

I would However Suspect the idea was for it to Perform a Similar Function as a Telescope or at least like a Submarine Periscope.

While with Prometheus and The Crossing it would appear that the Pilot Chair is NOT required apart from maybe to TAKE-OFF and LAND this does not mean we can RULE out that it can be used to SCAN the STARS.

Its Sci-Fi and Alien and so just because the Ship has a Small Glass like Dome does not mean that the Telescopic Apparatus uses this WINDOW area to View the Sky/Space. The Ship could have Various Cameras or Similar that Provide a LARGER view of the Heavens to the Pilot.

Bottom line like the overall Design of the Ship it just looked AWESOME...

BD

Sure there would have been problems with the script but maybe we could have been given some answers about Engineers and the Xeno. It is not an easy task to get it right but at least we would get to know some. Look at the Emperor in Star Wars, we know that he was a politician (prequels) and did horrible things and became a dictator (6) but we never get to know everything about him but we know enough. In the same way we do not need to know everything about the Engineers and the Xeno but be given enough interesting things to keep on talking about them.

"Secondly its HOW and WHEN and WHERE do you come into contact with the Engineers."

Some planet somewhere, that got be dealt with in the movie David managed to get there. How many Engineers there are, that can be done in some way. I do not think that AC did that wrong even though I kind of imagined it being more cities on that planet.

"Going by the LV-223 Engineer reaction (Theatrical and Ridley Scotts intentions) then i doubt they would even give any Answers, they would likely just TEAR the Intruders up... or maybe they take some to Torture/Experiment on?"
We could have been given some answers and also we could also have avoided it being about a crazy robot. Some answers are better than none.

"This was something that RS had indicated that would have Happened Regardless, but it seems we would have had more Interaction with the Engineers First..…"
Some interaction with the Engineers is the important part here, that would have been interesting to see but they should have had someone that knows how to write interesting human characters that works like real humans and that do not make mistakes every now and then. Write mistakes that make sense and that do not touch everything that is there (snakes in P, plants in AC), that is something that the writers did not learn from. They need to be smarter about that given that humans are not perfect of course.

"But then we got Alien Covenant, which appears to be NOT what Ridley Scott wanted but what FOX wanted from him."

I think that Scott And Fox are to blame. He seems to be only talking about AI and David and very little about the importance about human characters so yes I blame him much for that although I do not think that it is his fault only. Fox probably though that all the audience wanted was Aliens but when I looked around the www most of was I saw was comments about stupid characters which means that Fox never understood what the criticism was about. Maybe Scott does not understand how important that is to a movie and also I am not sure if he understands how writing-structure works (writing-structure is a word that I got from the AVP-galaxy podcast). This is the same as with Prometheus, I do not think that the problem was not all Lindelof's.

"Hence why i feel that AC we had a PLOT where Planet 4 was closer to Earth, so that it was in reach of a Human Ship so that more Human Characters/Fodder could be introduced!"

Yeah that makes sense

"How many Engineers would they Discover and HOW would this impact the Movie?"

Wouldn't that depend on their attitude towards the humans? Never the less it could have been interesting to watch.

"So a Problem would be Human Characters... having a Movie that would be like say a Hours worth of like the Deleted Engineer talks to David Scene would not WORK!"

I totally agree about that

"Fans would also want Xenomorphs or Answers too..."

I would have liked that but it would have been closer to the engineers and hinted at rather than to have David responsible for it. The answer that we got was really crappy if you ask me because if we stick with that then they should throw the prequels in the trash-can and start over again or make a movie where it shows that David just made his version.

I like the idea of different kinds of Engineers that are living on different planets. Maybe a civil war among different kinds of Engineers given that there are different factions. Perhaps the SJ could be one of those but then we also need to remember the scale of the SJ and how they need to keep that as realistic as possible.

Sorry, I am not interested in Shaw or David so I do not want any of them to have a big role in it although they could have parts in the story. At least do not make David into a Hannibal Lecter kind of type which he became in Covenant. He could at least have had some sympathetic traits in him which he did not have at all yeas he was interesting but totally dislikable.

"By that do we assume the Engineers are only limited to a 40LY Radius of Earth?"

Some of them maybe but then there could be Engineers that live on planets that are further away than that. I imagine that they might have technology that makes planets habitable but at the same time we don't know what they need to survive. Do they eat and if so what do they need?

"You will get some Fans who may feel you would not connect with Human Characters unless they are FROM our Planet Earth.... but with the PLOT of Prometheus can we really say that HUMANS come from Earth?"

Some fans is the important part here, I would connect with the characters if they are sympathetic (at least some of them because humans can be in many ways which is both good and bad) and smart. Then we have dumb-asses like Fifield and Milburn who have zero redeemable traits. My point is that if they are well-written and sympathetic it might work no matter if they are from earth or another planet.

"You see RS had said the ALIEN Franchise could be as Big as Star Trek and Star Wars... some looked at that as a ODD comment.... well it is ODD if we just limit the ALIEN Franchise as being about Xenomorphs, Weyland-Yutani and Ripley!!!!"

Yeah, I responded with no because it is not set up that way. Even if they opened it up some way with the Engineers the foundation of it is too limited so even if he is right in a way I think that his way of thinking is exaggerated.

"RS wanted to STEER away from Alien with the Prequels…"

If he meant that there were more than the Xenos he is correct but he put that in such a way that it was very difficult to understand his way of thinking. He should have a translator that is like "what Scott really means is. . ."LOL! My point is that he is difficult to understand and sometimes he changes his views kind of fast.

"A TV Series about a Series of Worlds with Humans on and Engineers interacting with them, that are 30'000 Light Years from Earth would give us a SPIN-OFF that deals with Engineers, Humans and other Creations that would NOT have to Conflict the ALIEN Franchise at all.
But i think a lot of Fans will NEVER accept anything that does-not connect to ALIEN and the Xenomorph... they would ONLY be interested in HOW/WHEN/WHY those Engineers had dealings with Xenomorphs and would expect to see Queens and the like!"

Fans are different, I would like to see more of the engineers and I also think that the queen as an idea is dead. Maybe the Xenos can breed in different ways? You also mention Ripleys, I think that it would be repetitive to do that because even if I did not like Shaw at least that was not a repetition of Ripley. Even Daniels was more like Ripley but even if she was closer to Ripley like she does not take shit she was so vague as a character so I did not understand what her personality was (naive, logical, emotional, and so on). Honestly she was not the only one without personality, most of them were. This is not to say that humans are only this and that but that we need characters that are way better written than what the prequels have managed to do this far. Covenant improved on that so the characters was at least better than AR, AVP, AVPR (a really horrible movie, shit, trash), and Prometheus as far as the characters go but is still not enough at all. To me poorly written characters and too much David killed the prequels, not the lack of Xenos.

I am not someone that has studied biology or anything like that so I only judge from what I have seen in Prometheus.

The Engineers got the goo from somewhere and they must have found something to use it on. Maybe the goo had been used to increase Xeno tendencies that was in that kind of life-form so the goo gave it increased aggression and so on. Compare it to the worm that swam in the goo in Prometheus. The closer the life-form is initially to the Xeno the less of the substance it needs to come to the end-result. If it is further from the Xeno and has some traits the more goo is needed.

We have the mural but that is so vague so that could be anything that you read into it. I am not sure if that is very much to go on.

Eight years since Prometheus and I am still disappointed with the Zombie version, it is bad. Since humans are basically the same physically I guess that they would have become like Fifield even though I guess that they could be different since people have different personalities.

Having Daniels as the queen is lame since that suggests that David is responsible for it and I can not in any way accept that. You can go that route but I would dislike it so much.

I think that the things that it is about is

1. Where did the goo come from
2. How does it work
3. Does it affect different life-forms in different ways and if so how is that difference (like I can imagine that the cells are different between a cow and a human) and
4. How do we we get the Xeno
5. Are those on LV426 the only ones that exist by that time
6. How do we get from egg-morphing to a queen

At least they did not damage the origins of the goo so at least that is a mystery (phew!) even if they hinted that David did the original version of the Xeno (an explanation that is crap). It should be kept as a mystery I think. About the queen it looks interesting but it has been used too much.

About the Space Jockey and what happened I think that Prometheus hints at that so I am OK with it never being shown. I don't think that they showed us where the weapons were or what exactly happened but then the ship could be very big so we did not see every room (if the rooms in Alien and Prometheus carried similar things). Perhaps the Engineer was already having Xeno-like monsters to bomb earth with (maybe from experiments on LV223). Maybe the derelict in Alien works the same but maybe a different ship (like say Volvo makes different cars but they look different). The difference is that the derelict stopped closer or further from earth but then we do not know if the Engineers and the SJ are the same version. Sorry if this is confusing.

“*Xenomorph was Discovered by the Engineers, and this lead to the Experiments on them to Create the Horrors on LV-223
*The Xenomorph was a Eventual Result of the Experiments that was Conducted on LV-223, be that a Engineered/Designed Result or a Unintentional One.
And thats the WAY they should have left it…"

Yeah, they should never have made Covenant if you ask me.

"What we could Conclude or Speculate to a Logical Conclusion was that the Xenomorph was something that either was the PRECURSOR to those Experiments/Black Goo on LV-223 or that they were the PRECURSOR to the Xenomorph."

Makes sense

I look at LV223 as either a space lab or a military outpost. It can be either or since it is not very much explained but I don't mind that we never get that explanation. The Engineers created it on LV223 and the pilot was about bombing earth with it but got infected and landed on LV426.

I like this topic, it is interesting. To me it could something that can be used to see where it is like a telescope but then would not the ship have coordinates to understand where it is. Maybe it is as simple as something to use to see what is outside or to look at the stars?

About its role being changed with the prequels I do not see how that would be possible since Prometheus did not show us much of that. We can only guess in this case.

Perhaps it is a canon and a telescope, depending on what adjustment that you have. Push one button and you get X, push another and you get Y.

"How does it Escape the Ships HULL?"

There could be something that we do not know about? I am not sure what that would be

"And so WHY are there Four Cryo-Pods if ONE Engineer is Needed to Control the Ship?"

Maybe they alternate so one is flying as long as he can and then he wakes up another? Who says that there is only one Engineer in there. Maybe they also need to sleep? We do not know how far those ships travel or if the Engineers sleep so maybe that is the explanation.

"And so Once the Ship is in Space and a Destination is SET then the Pilot Chair has NO Use..."

You can autopilot it or drive manually, it could be about that.

It could be more about style than about what it is actually good for.

BD: as far as I remember it you mentioned before that they do not think things through logically when they do those things but that they put things there just because so maybe that is the case.

BD: Sure I do not say that we must ignore the ones on Planet 4 but I would prefer if the focus is on those in Prometheus since they seem more interesting. At the same time I also think that it could be interesting to see why they look different. My idea is that the big ones are like enhanced ones that carry out warfare while those that we saw in AC were like civilians.

It is more to discover than queens and marines if you ask me.

"And so maybe the same Happened between those LV-223 Engineers and the ones on Planet 4?"

That might be the case, if they make it interesting then sure why not. There could be different reasons for it but as long as it is interesting and makes sense then I am all for it.

"IF some Humans would Genetically Engineer themselves as a Super-Human Race."

That could be interesting if they have that in the franchise and the Engineers discover that. Imagine what kind of trouble that would mean for the humans. Sure it would reduce the role of the Xeno but that does not need to be a bad thing since I look at it as being about mankind.

"(David) and how this Superior Being had Created a more Superior Destroyer (Xenomorph)"

Logically it makes sense but I do not want David to be the creator of the Xeno. I would like the Engineers to be those that create it or that make a superior version of it. Maybe neither David nor the Engineers made the first one?

"But someone ATTEMPTS to Prevent this and DESTROYS LV-223 but ONE Ship manages to Escape but the Destruction of LV-223 Creates a Temporary Tear in Space/Time that sends this SHIP to Crash on LV-426 some Thousands of Years ago."

Perhaps that could work, movies have to work logically otherwise it is like "huh?", or "this is boring", or "this doesn't make sense" which is probably what a lot of people think about the prequels right now.

Chris

They don't have to throw him away totally but reduce his role and make better human characters. Sorry but I have no feelings for a rape-y robot. If I want to watch a movie about robots, I would watch Terminator. Now, I respect that people have different opinions about it but if we watch how many people watched Covenant I would say that the interest was not that great, at least you can agree with me on that one, right?

Ridley thought that the beast was cooked, I would like to see data that supports that the fans think so. I think that they can try different monsters and not have the actual Xeno in it but I am not tired of it. What I am tired of is poorly written and/or executed human characters and the total focus on a crazy robot. To me it has always been about the human journey (which I figured out after thinking about what I enjoy about the alien movies and why some of them do not work).

The Engineers are interesting but they threw that aside because they thought that people wanted Xenos. I looked around the www and saw more complaints about characters doing stupid things, less people seemed concerned about the lack of Xenos. Fox misunderstood it if you ask me.

"It's only been 3 years since Covenant released - don't stress."

If I would be a fan of Covenant I would be worried but I am not. They should either cut off the prequels or make better human characters and have less David, I am tired of the android story.

According to Box Office Mojo we can see Alien Covenant made less than Prometheus.

Prometheus https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl1063945729/

AC https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl696026625/

If the android story is so fantastic why did the profits decline that much from one movie to another? With that in mind it would be fairly stupid to continue to have the focus on a crazy robot even though I respect that some people are interested in David. Art is subjective so that is alright if you have another opinion but I do not agree about this topic.

If we look at Tomatometer for audience score Prometheus gets 68 percent, and Covenant gets 55.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alien_covenant

Box office RT $74,255,908 https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alien_covenant

Box office RT $126,464,904 https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012

Both the general score for Prometheus is higher than Covenant and also Covenant made less of a profit, this is both according to BOM and RT. Some people like the android story but if we look at the numbers it seems to me that a lot of people did not. Because it is like a franchise where they compare profits from one movie to another it would be kind of dumb to make another movie about an artificial megalomaniac/rapist. The interest for another crazy robot movie just does not seem to be there in general which to me is a good thing. At least AC is better than the AVP-movies and AR (not sure if I prefer it to Prometheus since the amount of well-written characters are about the same in both).

Disney would be foolish to waste the David character established by Prometheus and Alien: Covenant. Ironically, after Covenant landed in theaters, the consensus seemed to be that the beast WAS cooked after all and that fans and audiences actually wanted to see more of what Ridley originally set out to do with Prometheus. It's unfortunate Fox caved to the will of those criticizing the lack of Xenomorph-mayhem in Prom.

I don't think Alien is dead in the water - it's too big of a property to deny and Disney will want to recoup some of their investment - they paid a pretty penny to buy out Fox's film assets.

Keep in mind - they are still releasing the next few Avatar sequels which have had zero interest for almost a decade now. I see them developing another film and likely a Disney+ series like previously rumored in the near future. It was 5 years between Prometheus and Alien: Covenant. It's only been 3 years since Covenant released - don't stress.

I always considered the pilot's chair to be more of a massive telescope, allowing the Engineer/Jockey to track their course through space since the Juggernaut / Derelict had no windshield!

@Hox hit the nail on the head, I believe.

BigDave Agree about gambling. The only gambling I did was at the horse races back in 1990. I went in with $20, gambled on the horses for a few hours, got pretty drunk and went home with $20! I quit while I broke even, had a good time and basically drank for free!

I just don't understand the online gambling thing in general but it definitely looks popular.

Sorry if that is OFF TOPIC...

Regarding the Online Gambling, it is a Big Market and i guess a ALIENS themed Game would be interesting to those who are a Fan of Gambling and  the Franchise...

I am NOT a Gambling Man though as i have BAD LUCK, i will have the ODD go on a Lottery though....  and now and again Sports Bets to JINX Teams/Fighters... as if i BET on something its almost Guaranteed to NOT WIN lol

Closest WIN i ever got was 5 Numbers on the Euro Lottery.. in 2018...  3 Main Numbers and 2 Lucky Stars... and i WON.... £38 LOL

If i had matched 4 Main Numbers and the Lucky Stars then it was £96'000 if i Matched all 5 Numbers and Lucky Stars then it would have been £54M... so yeah TWO numbers off i felt £38 was a Kick in the Teeth!  Guess why i dont Gamble ;)  If i swapped TWO Lucky Stars and instead had 5 Main Numbers i would have had 1000X the Cash Windfall at £37'000 :(

I think it shows they can Market the Franchise in different ways, its ONE reason that Disney would have wanted to Acquire the Franchise as it can be used in Various Forms and not Limited to Movies.

Most of the USE of the Franchise does seem to revolve around what we see in ALIENS, as in the Marines, Company and the Xenomorph as far as what James Cameron introduced.

This is what gains the Most Interest and Marketability of the Product, and it will be interesting to see what this ALIEN DAY would bring!  Last Year was the 40TH Anniversary and well it mainly revolved around the ALIENS connected Content...

I would be wondering what April 26, 2026 would bring.... maybe it would be the Announcement/Release of another ALIEN Movie that would be more in the Mold of ALIENS or even Blomkamps Abandoned Aliens Sequel?

I would not be surprised as i think thats the kind of Direction that would appeal to Disney.... Long LIVE the Queen... the Gods are DEAD... so to Speak :(

I think to look at the OT...

From the Moment we get our Eggs on the Derelict the Rest is Quite Basic and Straight Forwards.... the Origins of those Eggs and how they came to be is where its a bit FIDDLY!

Looking at the Occam’s Razor POV that you started Chli i would say the Summery is Quite Accurate. 

At some point the Engineers on LV-223 had Experimented with stuff that we see a likely End Product being in those URNS that are to be USED to Eradicate Mankind.

But messing about with such Deadly Stuff, became their downfall after some OUTBREAK which we can only Speculate as to HOW this happened.

If we accept Alien Covenant then it appears this Biological Weapon had Produced the STARTING point for David to carry out Various Experiments until he Obtained his Xenomorph.   And that before we get to ALIEN we would see this Creation go through some more Engineering/Evolving before we get to those EGGS.

This Further Engineering/Evolving does-not even have to come from David... Engineers could come and Continue his Work, or even some Hybrid Humans that he Creates... or EVEN it could be that the Company Engineers those EGGS!

We have YET to reach that Conclusion, and so things could take a Change or even another U-Turn.

The LARGER piece of the Puzzle is the Black Goo Origins...

We can see those LV-223 Experiments and Black Goo are Connected.... but its still a PUZZLE on how this connects with the SACRIFICIAL Scene...  The FULL details/origins of this TOOL is still up for some Debate.

A Simple Explanation would be that either the Goo is Pre-programed to Produce Xenomorph like Results and THUS the Sacrificial Scene Now becomes the Seeding of this Pathogen and NOT the Origins of Mankind.

Or that the Pathogen is just a TOOL that can Re-map the Genomes of Organic Matter and so can be USED to Program any Organic Creation...  If we look at EVERY Life-Form has a Genetic Map/Code of Billions of Data..   so you could use the Pathogen to say Program the Skin Color of Human, Eye Color, or you can alter other DATA, so that we can Change a Human to a Ape, or even ANYTHING else.

Then it becomes a Convenient Tool and Plot Device.

What i am saying is the Total Genetic Code of a African Native, European Native and Asian Native are all a 100% DNA Match but the Genetic Code has differences that Determine the Differences of Race, and even Differences within a Set Race...  Eye Color, Hair, etc

If we look at Cats, then a Lion, Tiger and Jaguar all look a bit different, but they SHARE a High % of DNA and Genetic Code.....  taking the FEW strings of Code that make a Lion different to a Jaguar, and if say we had a TOOL to Change the Differences and Reprogram that to INFECT a Lion we could Speculate we could CHANGE the Lion to a Jaguar.... or even a JONESEY!

When we look at a Human vs a Cat then our DNA would be Quite Close like 90% Match... but its other DATA/Differences that make us Different.

What if there was a TOOL that can Map/Re-progam those Differences?

So if you Change the Data Strings that are Different in a CAT to that of a HUMAN could you Turn a Cat Genetic Material into a Human?

We are talking Science Fiction with the Franchise but my POINT being that if the GOO is a Tool to Genetically Reprogram a Organisms Genetic Code... then it would become a CONVENIENT Plot Device...

The GOO would in effect be a CREATION TOOL, but also we could have it as something that can MERGE/HYBRID such Data to Create Hybrids..

Such a Path would make it a A.I of sorts.. a Tool that can be Programed... it could be Programed to INFECT only Organisms that MATCH a Certain Code and then either Replace Certain Codes with others or to just Break Down this Genetic Code and Replicate the Virus... or even Render ALL the Target/Programed Genetic Code/Material to become a Solid/Crystallized...  that would EXPLAIN the Planet 4 Engineers!

I think this is Convenient, and maybe what they intend with the Radical AI McGuffin!

So if we Imagine Organisms are Comprised of like Rubik's Cubes

A Rubik Cube has 54 Squares but this can give 43,252,003,274,489,856,000 possible Combinations, or 43.2 Quintillion

Can you imagine how many Combinations for say 1000 Cubes.... then Imagine if you had a 1000 Cubes where they was all set the same apart from TWO Sqaures on ONE of the Cubes and in Genetic Terms this Changes the Color of a Eye?

If we consider such a comparison with Genetic Code, then the GOO could be a TOOL to Copy/Clone/Combine/Hybrid Codes or even Reprogram them...

In this theory if David had the Genetic Code Map of a Xenomorph and Programed the GOO with that CODE and it Infected a Organism it would Imprint the Xenomorph DNA on it.... 

So this could MEAN that David had NOT created the Xenomorph, if we look at it like that... but thats not to say that this is the Case.

If we look at the GOO in this way, then the Engineers could maybe have Dabbled with the Code and By Accident Produced something that Predated the Xenomorph/Deacon and they FOUND this was Interesting and they Further Continued to Play around with this Specific Code and became Perverted to Want to EVOLVE all Life with this CODE instead of using the Engineers Genetic Code.

This could Constitute a FALL of sorts...

This kind of THEORY would basically allow them to USE the Goo Plot to do what ever they Fancy.... and would explain the Sacrificial Scene having Different Result.

The Goo could be Programed to Break Down Engineer and Replicate his DNA/CODE to either Evolve/Mutate Life it comes into Contact with, or to become Basic Life.

The Goo could been Programed to Break Down Engineer and become a Substance that instead would PROGRAM onto Organisms it comes into Contact with... with a different CODE.. say Xenomorph Related Code.

Or it could be Programed to Change the Genetic Building Blocks of a Organism into a Solid Mater...  so the Sacrificial Engineer who consumes such a Programed Goo would simply turn into a Desiccated Statue like those Planet 4 Engineers.

If this kind of Theory was Applied it would make the Goo what ever anyone wants and it would be the ULTIMATE TOOL of Creation or Death.

The Connection to the Xenomorph would thus be the Perversion of the Substance by Programing it to Create Horrific Forms of Life, that those Engineers who conducted this wanted to Unleash/Evolve other Life into..

David took their Work and Tweaked it a little.

Sorry for LONG POST and if its a it OFF TOPIC ;)

If i was to look at this TOPIC Dead in the Water as far as COULD we explore the Engineers more, then i think that YES you could do, they are NOT all Dead.... not as far as the Scope of the Plot.

By that do we assume the Engineers are only limited to a 40LY Radius of Earth?

The RED Dot being the Area that the ALIEN Franchise has been Confined too (Includes Prequels).  GREEN dots just being a example of where Engineer Worlds could be, but they could be anywhere else in the Galaxy and Many More, the Image is just to show that you could have Engineers located at a Greater Distance from Earth that Mankind can-not Reach as far as Time-Line of the Franchise.

And so to Consider that and what i put in the previous post regarding some ideas for the Prometheus 3 i was working on in 2013-2014, then POTENTIALLY you could have other Worlds where HUMANS are that we have these Civilizations being there for Thousands of Years and so they DONT come from Earth... or they could do but are TAKEN from Earth by the Engineers in the Ancient Past!

so you could explore a Specific Area of the Galaxy thats FAR FAR away or even another Galaxy Completely and have HUMANS and also Engineers.

A TV Series would be best for this...

You can explore a World where Humans and Engineers interact, we can be shown them Speaking in a ALIEN or Earlier Human Language and we have Sub Titles for a bit of Dialog....

Before they then START to speak English... (so we understand this is for our Convenience only).

You will get some Fans who may feel you would not connect with Human Characters unless they are FROM our Planet Earth.... but with the PLOT of Prometheus can we really say that HUMANS come from Earth?

Is there any Proof in Context to the Franchise?

We could reveal that Humans come from somewhere else and a Colony of them was sent to Earth Many Many Thousands of Years ago....  OR that Many Many Thousands of Years ago, Humans were taken from Earth and Spread to other Parts of the Galaxy by the Engineers.

We have to remember Star Wars has Humans but is SET in a FAR FAR away Galaxy, so do they Speak English? or is that for our Convenience?   The same goes for the Caprica/Battle Star Galactica Plot too.

You see RS had said the ALIEN Franchise could be as Big as Star Trek and Star Wars... some looked at that as a ODD comment.... well it is ODD if we just limit the ALIEN Franchise as being about Xenomorphs, Weyland-Yutani and Ripley!!!!

RS wanted to STEER away from Alien with the Prequels, he felt the Prometheus Plot had Great Potential.... and he had to mean as far as a Ancient Race of Gardner's of Space.. Genetic Gardeners... if these Guys go around Seeding Worlds and then Visiting, Upgrading, Evolving and Teaching these Creations... then SURELY that is NOT limited to just on EARTH!

Which means we DONT have to Limit Humans to being on Earth!

A TV Series about a Series of Worlds with Humans on and Engineers interacting with them, that are 30'000 Light Years from Earth would give us a SPIN-OFF that deals with Engineers, Humans and other Creations that would NOT have to Conflict the ALIEN Franchise at all.

But i think a lot of Fans will NEVER accept anything that does-not connect to ALIEN and the Xenomorph... they would ONLY be interested in HOW/WHEN/WHY those Engineers had dealings with Xenomorphs and would expect to see Queens and the like!

So i think the Prequels and what they set up are DEAD!

And Disney will just give us Xenomorphs, Queens and RIPLEYS!

The LV-223 Juggernaught is a different Matter as we know 100% those Cryo-Pod Engineers had been Killed a LONG TIME ago...

So we have a Ball Park we can place their FATE around.

And so bringing up the Pyramid Structure is Interesting.

If we look at those Images we can see there is a Central Shaft that Runs to the Cistern at the Top of the Shaft we have what is described as Vapor.

These mean there is WATER! and during the Scene when Holloway takes of his Helmet we see they are in some Central Place and there is Dripping Water.

This Scene indicates that the Engineers were Terra-forming as the Atmosphere inside was Breathable Compared to Outside.  Water is H2O and so from that you can make Oxygen.

So the Vapor must be how they extract Water and Turn that into Oxygen.

Maybe we can assume what Happens if the Water Supply is Infected?  If the Engineers are similar to us then Logically they would Need Water for Certain and we can assume Oxygen.

A Accidental/Deliberate Contamination of the Water could be a way that Engineers could be Infected without any Knowledge until its TOO LATE!

We know there was a Outbreak, it appears in the Thousands of Years that had Passed there was NOTHING from this Infection/Outbreak that was a THREAT...

The Threat coming from Fresh Leak of Black Goo from the Ampoule Room after the Prometheus Crew entered the Ampoule Room with NO Helmets.

In 2012 and 2013 we had RS mention a few times about the Pathogen and what if this stuff infects a Water Supply, and that after a Period of Hundreds of Years the Contamination would be Clear and Engineers Safe to Return to a Infected World.

So maybe any Contamination be it in the Air or Water could become Stable/Dissipated over time?   And in Alien Covenant this could even had Happened in a Lesser Time, unless the GOO was Programed a Certain way or there was a Safe-Gard to Eradicate a Infection?

I think thats the Beauty of Prometheus.. its ambiguity means we cant really come up with any Conclusive Answers... we could take what Ridley Scott says... but then its a EVOLVING Story and so what he said in 2012, 2013 would not be what the Plan was as of 2016.  What i mean by that is he had said after Prometheus the Derelict Event had happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak 2000 Years ago, and by Virtue of expanding that to suggest something Evolved in the Cargo Hold would imply the EGGS were not on the Derelict at the Time of the Outbreak but something Evolved to them some Few Hundred Years after....

But we can THROW that out of the Window if his Intention  was what we have in ALIEN Covenant... which Contradicts what he has said about the Event prior to 2015.

I think if we GO BACK to prior to AC then it seems the Derelict and LV-223 Events are Connected but maybe Separated by a Period of Time.

It is NOT so Impossible to consider a Cargo Hold of Urns becomes something ELSE.... if we look at Prometheus we see the Urns in the Big Head Room become affected and the Black Goo seems to LEAK from the TOP and in some Shots it appears a THICK WAXY like Substance has appeared on the TOP of the Urns that is ORGANIC.

When we look at the Urns that are NOT affected and the Urn that David had took to the Prometheus we see the Urns are Constructed of TWO Parts... like a Russian Doll

WHY did the Urns not Leak from the Seal/Area where the Urns are Opened from?  And so HOW did the Goo seem to Escape from the seemingly Solid Lid?

If the Material the Urns are made of can Dissolve in a way that the Goo Escapes from the LID... could under certain Circumstances the Entire Urn just Dissolve?  Is that what we see in the Bombardment Scene in Alien Covenant?

If that is the Case, and a Cargo Hold of Urns can Dissolve then any Organic Material in the Hold could be Infected... and Eventually become the Eggs?

Another thing to Consider regarding the Evolving Cargo and Few Hundred Years, is COULD it be Prior to the Outbreak?  The only way this would make Sense would be if the Derelict had been Parked on LV-223 and its Cargo Hold Evolved, and a incoming group of Engineers Arrive at LV-223 and go to the Derelict and Discovery something had Evolved... but then its HOW does this Connect with the Later Outbreak?

However... Speculation on the Derelict Event and Ridley Scotts Comments back in 2012 are MOOT!   As with Alien Covenant it is indicating that as of the Year 2105 there are NO EGGS on the Derelict!  And so the Idea that RS had back then and Comments are NOT applicable anymore!

However because we have NOT yet seen those Eggs on the Derelict as FAR as them getting on the Ship.... then THINGS could be Changed... and IF they do so, then that does-not mean they would go back to the Idea that RS had as of 2012 in that the Event Happened about 200 Years prior or after the LV-223 Outbreak after something Evolved in the Cargo Hold...

If they CHANGE the David Created the Eggs on the Derelict Plot, then what they Change the Revelation and Origin too, does not have to Match what RS had mentioned in 2012 etc.

Having seen the Trailer a Few Times and TV Spots, it does have some like Easter Eggs to ALIEN/Prometheus as far as Aesthetically in how the Trailer looks and the suits etc.

I think its obvious it is in NO-WAY connected to the ALIEN Franchise though.... However the MONSTER appears to take some Inspiration from a Amalgamation of Various Concepts from the ALIEN Prequels.  I could attempt to Elaborate if required ;)

Looking at HOW this could expand into its own Franchise, i think it depends, i would EXPECT it would be Open Ended so that a Sequel could not be RULED OUT... but i dont think it would END in such a way that would NEED any Sequel.

Sometimes some Movies are BEST left as a Stand Alone Movie.

I can see your Concerns MonsterZero about having this be about a Deep Sea Creature and HOW these could then be a Threat to Mankind... and how it could make it a Movie thats TOO CLOSE to being stuck on Earth.

I think it depends on the Reveal about the Monster... could it have Came in a Ship from Out of Space?

Is it something that came on a Ancient Meteor and Evolved at the Bottom of the Sea, and was Buried due to Seismic Activity?

I kind of get the Impression there is ONE Monster but i would NOT rule out a Revelation Scene (maybe post Credits) where we see some Eggs or Similar.  I can see some Concerns about where do they go NEXT if its revealed there are like say Hundreds or Eggs... and so it leads to a Predictable Sequel where these are Recovered for Study... which Proves to be a Folly/Hubris.

But then the ALIEN Franchise is JUST as Predictable...

For those who may want this to be a Monster of ALIEN Origins they may want any Sequel to take us to Space and not be on Earth...  Then its HOW do they do that, the Lazy Route would be a Crashed Space Ship with some way of Determining where it came from...

The Ship does not have to be ALIEN... it could be a Human Mission to another Planet or Moon, that had recovered Samples and Crashed.... so if say it was from Mars then it could promote a Mission back to Mars for any Greedy Science/Military types to TRY and obtain the Organism.

But this would make it too CLOSE to the ALIEN Franchise and it would be nice to have some degree of Originality.... what could be WORSE is if the Digging/Drilling Mission was on purpose to Recover the Crashed Ship or Meteor etc, as again this would be just like Special Order 937!

I think the Movie looks to replicate the Type of Movie that ALIEN was to some degree, and it looks like a ALIEN meets Deep Star Six....  but i hope the Similarities are just that we have a Alien/Monster that goes around STALKING the Human Crew in the Shadows... like the Xenomorph did in ALIEN.

About the pictures you made of the pyramid, there seems to be a shaft going down into the headroom. Also, Fifields pups have circled along way up the pyramid. What's up there?

I guess a reasonable explanation for the Engineers lying in the cryo-pods, the pilot chair not raised and the hangar closed would be sabotage, as you suggest. They had intended to destroy life on Earth but were stopped. The Engineers we see running and the pile of Engineers we see outside the closed door saved humanity but not themselves?

dk I just have a problem with the crew not being isolated or cut off from rescue. Having 8-10 billion humans above surface just dulls it for me...it basically 8 billion humans(including the military) versus some deep sea creatures.

The idea of a Juggernaut crashing years ago with a pathogen doesn't seem so far fetched int the Alienverse. Creatures could have mutated quite differently and then go dormant as the earth changed/evolved due to seismic activity. Next, some humans poked a hornet's nest, like they are prone to do, and chaos ensues.

The movie is probably not connected to the Alienverse, but it could go into a different aspect to circumvent the Disney acquisition. 

Well MonsterZero there is Scope for SCI-FI to take place on other worlds and be similar.

For example a Expedition to Europa or Titan where they use some Technology to Heat the ICE...  what could you Thaw out?

There is Speculation about what LIFE could be on other Worlds in our System, as long as there is ICE, its Speculated what could be UNDER the ICE if deep down its Warmer due to Volcanic Activity or Vents to the Core...

Certainly cant rule out Basic Bacterial Life... what happens to such when their Environment is Heated Up?

Such Plots can also work for say incoming Comets or Asteroids that Crash and contain Frozen Bacteria/Microscopic Life that Thaws...

Off course this is or could become something thats been done before though, such as LIFE or THE THING.

In context to Prometheus, i guess they could discover a World where some Urns are found Underground in the Frozen Water or ICE...

And Once this Stuff has Defrosted.. we know the $&"# can HIT the Fan!

Indeed there is a lot we can only Speculate about..

The Engineer Conundrum really is just that, IF they was Infected prior to the Hollogram Scene, they did-not seem to be aware of any Infection, be it Black Goo, Neomorph like let alone Face Hugged..

We can only Speculate if at a Later Point they was Infected and Aware and Panicked, as the Drafts seemed to Indicate and also a Shot that we did not see.

If we IGNORE such things and only go by what we saw Theatrically then its more of a Mystery.

Which is WHY i wonder was there some Sabotage/Spike of their Drink/Air Supply.

They seemed to be Chest Busted, and by something that would be LARGER than a Xenomorph but NOT as Large as the Deacon (well Human Fetus Evolved).   We can only Speculate really.

The Derelict and Juggernaught are different Internally, the earlier Jon Spaights Draft indicates the Cryo-Pods are Standing and are NOT located in the Pilot Chamber, so we can maybe Speculate the Derelict has a Similar Layout or that it has only the PILOT.

I think it could be LIKELY that the Props for the Engineers were made in Relation to Jon Spaights Story, and they decided to keep them or Finish them off for Lindeloffs Story which we have NO answers for... But with Spaights the indication was Face Hugger Infection which the Engineers were ALL infected and Attempted to go into Cryo-sleep to Prevent this.

To TRY and look at your first point in your last reply, well indeed it seems odd about something EVOLVING in the Cargo Hold.

There was NO Urns on the Derelict, and surely Urns cant Change?

In Alien Covenant we see the Urns seem to disintegrate into a Mass of Cloudy Particles so Nothing remained of the Casing.... was this part of the Activation? Or because they HIT a Force Field (thats for another debate). 

The Neomorph Spore Pods grew from something being infected with the Black Goo.

If a Cargo Hold had something inside that could be Evolved as the Spore Pods were, and if the Urns had Activated/Exploded in the Cargo Hold... then MAYBE... what we could have is something that Evolves inside the Cargo Hold.

If a Engineer Ship had a Water Leak and a Infected Water Supply or a Leak in a Empty Cargo Hold, but some Black Goo had got into that HOLD and this Hold had Mold... we could Speculate that something like a Neomorph Spore would be Possible?

A Infection in a Water Supply could explain the Outbreak... if Leaked Water would then produce some Algae/Moss or Fungi or Mold etc... then this could EVOLVE into Something.

That is maybe the Best Way i can try and think how such a thing could Happen!

But if we IGNORE what RS had said then indeed the most likely Connection or how it appeared would have been either.

1) They Created, Engineered, Evolved something on LV-223 and Transported it to a Ship and ONE of those Ships was the Derelict.

2) The Derelict was Transporting Eggs to be used to Create/Experiment with on LV-223.

One of those seemed to look Visually what the Connection should/could be.

The only other way RS comment would make sense would be IF....... Something had Evolved in ONE Cargo Hold, then it Infected the Pilot, and then it had made its way into a Empty Hold to Lay the Eggs....

The Problems come from NOT really bothering to give a indication to HOW the Derelict/Juggernaught are Connected. 

 MonsterZero The ocean depths are actually closer to being a real Alien world than outer space sci fi can deliver. At any rate, it should be worth a watch.

If this movie took place on an alien world.. I would be all in! 

takes place on Earth? Yawn.

The tagline idea is neat! Under the Ocean Depths, who can take the pressure?

As for the Alien tagline, we actually heard Lambert scream and cry quite a bit!

HOWEVER......

It did-not need to be that way....

I began to work on 3 Prometheus Sequels... the First would not have had much about Engineers, or David or Shaw... but it would have Scenes that Flash Back to those.

The Next One which would have been my Prometheus 3 we Finally arrive at a Engineer World!   And it takes David and Dr Shaw a VERY LONG Time... say 100 Years. The Galaxy is a BIG PLACE!  The Distance to Zeta 2 (39LY) is Nothing in the Grand Scale of a Galaxy that at its Furthest Point A-B is 100'000 Light Years.

And the Engineers had Maps to other Galaxies and so the Scope was Massive!

I wont go into detail here about what my P3 was about as there was about 4-5 ideas for it that was really similar to each other.

I will just ASK these...

*Is the Earth the only Place with Humans (interacted with/created by Engineers).

*Would the Engineers put so much Time into Mankind to then DESTROY us all?   GOD had destroyed Mankind, but even he allowed Noah and his Family to Survive.

So there is the Scope for Humans or Very Similar to be elsewhere in the Galaxy, be that the Engineers had NOT put all the EGGS into One Basket (Earth) or that they had come to Rescue in a ARK of Sorts some Humans before they intended to PULL THE PLUG!

Could such a Human Colony/Civilization live in Harmony with the Engineers or a Handful of Engineer Watchers?

Do these Engineers know about LV-223, was it a Place that was always for that ONE Purpose, and IF SO/NOT what does these other Engineers know about it?

And what do the Humans they live among know about it?

How would those Engineers and Humans feel about David?

What if the LV-223 Engineers were different to the other Engineers, and what if the LV-223 kind were similar to HOW our David is to us?

Would these Engineers be concerned about David, a Immortal Superior being, would David be disappointed in these Engineers and how they would have a Great Fondness of Humans but a dislike for the LV-223 Engineers and David (Synthetic Creations).

Could we then learn a bit more about those LV-223 Engineers and a Rebellion?

Would some of the Engineers have concerns about David and his interest in the LV-223 Engineers and his Disapproval with Mankind?

Is LV-223 their Dirty Little Secret?  Is there another Agenda that those Engineers want hidden from the Humans they live with?

How would those Humans feel about the History of Mankind, our Religions, Gods... and what the Engineers had been up to on LV-223

These Humans not being told they are NOT alone, and that there are others in the Galaxy, and that the Engineers had intended to Destroy them...

And what Effect would Dr Shaw's Faith have on those Humans?

These are ALL points i was taking on with my Prometheus 3.

It was a case of WHO would be the ONE to KICK OFF!

*Engineers vs David due to Concerns about him?

*David to try and kill those Humans or Engineers? (maybe if he felt they would try and get rid of him).

*Engineers try to get rid of Dr Shaw after seeing the Negative Effect she has on the other Humans. (would David then Unleash Hell to Protect Her).

*Dr Shaw discover a Sinister Agenda these Humans are not aware of (i was thinking like some are Chosen to go to a Paradise, so it was very like the Movie THE ISLAND... only the Real Truth to the Off World Destination for them was Horrific.  Does she inform the Humans, and what would the Engineers then do?

So there was a LOT of what IF with how to continue and i just could not PIN-POINT a Single Whole Story that i liked..

But this shows that you COULD have gone to a FAR FAR FAR away Place where there are other Humans...

They dont always have to come from Earth or Weyland Yutani... the Prometheus Scope was Bigger than the 40LY Radius that the ALIEN Franchise was set in!

Could be both. The skull of an adult xenomorph has a ‘metallic’ sheen to it, or something like a crab’s shell.

Here’s an ancillary question: are xenomorphs hot or cold blooded, do you think? Creatures with exoskeletons are cold blooded. How would it have felt to Parker when the Alien grabbed him by the head, cool or warm? Of course, a xenomorph doesn’t have to play by the rules...

I think there are Problems you would FACE with any kind of Sequel that would include the Engineers in anything more than Flash Backs!

Firstly you have to come up with HOW the Humans can Interact with the Engineers, having a Synthetic Translate every Sentence could become Repetitive and Limiting.

Secondly its HOW and WHEN and WHERE do you come into contact with the Engineers.

Finally we have to look at How Many of the Engineers there are and their Outlook on Mankind, especially once some Humans turn up out of the Blue, Uninvited.

Picture this..... what if David and Dr Shaw had found another Juggernaught with all FOUR of the Crew Alive and in Stasis and WOKE them up.... or instead of Dr Shaw and David a incoming Human Mission to LV-223.

Going by the LV-223 Engineer reaction (Theatrical and Ridley Scotts intentions) then i doubt they would even give any Answers, they would likely just TEAR the Intruders up... or maybe they take some to Torture/Experiment on?

A similar Problem would occur with Planet 4, we dont know how those Guys would have Reacted, would they have reacted Hostile?  Who knows...  I think that would have been Interesting.... but then depending or regardless of how they would react, it would Conflict the Franchise because of WHY have we not seen them come back?

The Logical Conclusion would be that at some Point we would see DAVID.. Unleash Hell on them!

This was something that RS had indicated that would have Happened Regardless, but it seems we would have had more Interaction with the Engineers First.....

But then we got Alien Covenant, which appears to be NOT what Ridley Scott wanted but what FOX wanted from him.

Because not having a Xenomorph is something they felt was Missing.... but then we have to go back and look at the Alternatives!

Could a Movie Work that....

*Has only ONE Human Character Dr Shaw, and Rely on David to Translate for her?

*How many Engineers would they Discover and HOW would this impact the Movie?

So a Problem would be Human Characters... having a Movie that would be like say a Hours worth of like the Deleted Engineer talks to David Scene would not WORK!

Even if David could teach Dr Shaw their Language, or there was a way she could Communicate with them (they had some Technology)  then again a Movie with a Synthetic and a Single Human Character who would be Interacting with a Handful or many more Engineers, would again NOT work!

Well  such things would not interest many, and would be difficult to pull off....  Fans would also want Xenomorphs or Answers too...

Hence why i feel that AC we had a PLOT where Planet 4 was closer to Earth, so that it was in reach of a Human Ship so that more Human Characters/Fodder could be introduced!

I can see some similarities with the poster.

Apart from that i cant really see much of a Connection, it appears this Movie is more similar to Leviathan and Deep Star Six

While it does-not Connect to PROMETHEUS... thats not to say that they could not have made a Similar Movie that Connects to PROMETHEUS.   We had Ridley Scott suggest the Engineers had Seeded Many Worlds, and that they could have RESET Worlds over and over...

He even mentioned that their could have been other Civilizations before us that had to be Eliminated, and mentioned ATLANTIS.

So in Context to Underwater Fun and Prometheus, they could have explored a Movie where we DISCOVER the Long Lost City of ATLANTIS.... and indeed we Discover these GUYS had been on the Receiving End of the Engineers.

A Place Destroyed, and Buried at Sea.... what HORRORS would await?

What Horrors had the Engineers Unleashed and could any have Survived?

Or do we Discover some of the Species the Engineers wanted to Cleanse to make way for US?   Could this Long Lost Civilization be more Wicked/Evil than the Engineers and if AWOKEN would the Survivors want to have their World Back and also want to know where the Engineers got to/came from?

So indeed we could have explored such... we would have to remember conflicts with the ALIEN Franchise and so any such Discovery would be better to be made between the events of Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.

We could even Uncover a Failed Mission, a Juggernaught Ship and Outbreak that they had to Cause some Massive Seismic Event to Bury the Ship and its Cargo!

I did when i was a kid and after i saw ALIEN (before Aliens) i had a Dream that i saw a Movie where a Xenonmorph had got on-board a Oil Rig and Ship as the Humans had Dug Up a Derelict Ship at the Bottom of the Sea.

(about 1985) and i legitimately thought it was a Sequel... only the Weapons/Technology was very 1980's and it had Ripley in it lol 

So i was confused as it was a Very Realistic Memory, did i see something Vaguely similar and my Imagination just added the Xenomorph and Ripley? lol

I guess in a Alternative Universe... such a thing could have been explored as a ALIEN Movie... what of the Tag Line?

Space is not the only Place your Screams are Drowned Out!

I think you are referring to the Necronom IV?

I liked the Ultramorph Concept that was based off it for the Alien Engineers Draft/Idea

It would have been Awesome to have seen similar on Screen.

I think we need to look beyond the Queen and Typical Aesthetic too, but this is what the Original Franchise gave us and while we see some Differences there was not a MASSIVE variation from ALIEN to Alien Resurrection.

I do suspect IF we get any ALIEN Movies than i think Disney will-not stray too FAR from the ALIENS Aesthetic/Design.

Alien Resurrection teased us with how you could have Hybrids and Failed Experiments.. the Concept works from Alien 5 seemed to indicate likewise...

I think Prometheus opened up a Unlimited Potential to give us different Forms of ALIEN.... but i do feel Disney will STICK to something we are more Familiar with.

Well, I suppose we could continue to speculate that the juggernauts' cargo holds were empty when they reached LV-223? It would seem that at least two went there to get the lethal supply - either eggs or pathogen. It seems unlikely that the urns transformed into eggs. They could have leaked and mutated some lifeform in the cargo hold but the urns would still be there (there are no urns when Kane enters the egg chamber).

It's possible that one juggernaut fetched the eggs from another pyramid and ended up as the Derelict and the pilot (Space Jockey) on LV-426. It's also possible, of course, that other juggernauts left LV-223 with the same purpose, either to Earth or some other worlds. We know that at least two failed their missions.

The real conundrum is the four Engineers lying in the cryo-pods, the pilot chair not raised and no pilot. They must have died (three of them) from the outbreak started on LV-223 and one was "lucky" to survive.

But it makes no sense that they are all lying there. Were all four of them waiting for take-off (auto-pilot)? You would suspect that one cryo-pod was empty (the pilot), similarly you could wonder what happened to the rest of crew on the Derelict. The "doors" were opened and there were no sign of facehuggers or xenomorphs.

My favorite is the second one, upper left to right. Make the elongated parts shorter and it would be very interesting. I do not think that they shall make something that looks like a queen because it has been in movies, comics and so on, get something else.

Big Dave

I am not interested in Shaw but they could have made better characters if they would have had someone that could write characters. Maybe she would have been alright if she would have been like in The Crossing. At least they could have had some Engineers survive instead of the total slaughter that it became.

Maybe but at least I would think that their culture could have been interesting. I would have liked to see more bio-mechanical things because how it was in AC was not very impressive. To see more about their technology could have been interesting. Prometheus had problems but I do not think that the Engineers were one of them, rather I have heard some podcast and read threads on forums where they have talked positively about the Engineers. We have some interest there even though maybe limited since it id difficult to know if those opinions are representative of the fandom or movie-goers as a whole.

"… but would rather see about their Bio-Mechanical Technology and HOW/WHEN they obtained this, and WHAT connection they had with LV-223 and those Ships…"

That would have been interesting, I still would like to see their connection to the Xeno-like monsters. In no way will I accept to have David as the creator of the monsters, sorry but that won't happen but that could be corrected by showing that David copied what came before or made his own version a lesser one.

Those are interesting questions that I am not sure if I have an answer to. Maybe to the Alien species home-world or the world where the eggs came from seems the most interesting to me.
A plot with the Engineers was interesting in itself even though the Engineers could have been explained better but the foundation was right I think.

"The Alien Covenant PLOT got around this.... it should have given more Information about the Engineers, and revealed that David had Created a Improved Xenomorph with some Clues to HOW the Original was obtained.."

But it made in such a way that made the movie less interesting than it could have been. I was looking forward to see more about the Engineers but this movie just screwed that up and instead it was about a sadistic robot. You are totally right about more about the Engineers and that David made his own version and how the original became what it is.

If they shall write a new prequel they need IMO

• Better human characters/a writer that knows how to make human characters
• Let Scott stick to directing, Not writing otherwise we will get another stupid David-movie. If he can not stop interfering in the writing they should get another director.
• Much less of David/androids
• More about the Engineers and by that I mean the Prometheus ones (not those in AC). Maybe we could have different kinds of Engineers.

What was also clearly inspired by the prequels is Netflix' Lost in space. The suits, the rover, and it had a holo orrery thingie in the first season. 

In regards to theories, one could argue that a crew from the Prometheus became the Night King ( yes the actor was in both) from Game of thrones. Maybe it could also be speculated that Planetos is LV-223.

Let's start the conspiracies! Alien/Prometheus/Covenant vibe and aesthetic but under the ocean floor.

Interestingly, an Alien queen was dragged to the ocean floor in AVP. BOM BOM BOM!