Comments (Page 188)

THis is tricky, as BigDave said above the cast and number were spot on, they all do contribute something.....unlike say the Alien Covenant cast....

As irritating and hopeless as Lambert was, her actions her were the manifestation of terror. Lets face it, what they faced and experienced was so ALIEN most folk would fall apart like she did. Trapped in a ship, in the middle of uninhabited space with a creature that was totally unpredictable and violent. 

Id have to say Brett could have been UTILIZED more in the plot, that's about it though. But in saying that Harry Dean Stanton was so perfectly cast

If i'd choose,i'd choose Lambert.

Regarding the Derelict/Cargo i made this rough to Scale of the Pilot Chamber, Cargo Hold in Relation to Crew Height.

This is to SHOW the Minimum Size Required... i actually think the Derelict would need to STILL be a Little Larger, to the TUNE of Double the Height and Diameter and maybe Two-Three Times Width to accommodate the Cargo Hold and Full Pilot Chamber

Oh yes.

I will have to give it a TRY!

I should Start to Read more to HELP me sleep, as my Brain does-not switch off at Night lol

I am open to Reading Novels that expand but dont contradict the Movies and Prequels.. sadly quite a Number of them do this....

But i guess its always best to take them as a Alternative Universe, like how the Dark Knight Batman Series and the 90's Movie Series are....  about Batman but set in different Universes.

I DO have a FEAR that with Disney the ALIEN Franchise would be seeing Similar.... be it Movies and TV Series and so that could even mean a Alternative Universe version of Ellen Ripley thats played by someone else.

Or a Blomkamps like Alien 5... reboot of Alien 3

If  i could EXPAND on my Last Topic....

Going back 10+ Years ago then having a Announcement of a ALIEN Movie that was indicated and expected to provide some Answers to the Mystery in ALIEN... of which the Main Questions were

*WHAT was that Ship doing with those EGGS?

*WHERE did those EGGS come from?

*WHERE was the Derelict going and WHERE did it come from?

We can expand on that by exploring the Xenomorph Egg Origins..

The Secondary Mystery would be WHO is the Space Jockey, his Species, their Agenda/Purpose and WHY would they be carrying such a Horrific Organism.

By the Time we got to Prometheus, it NEVER gave any Clear Answers to all of those, Certainly not to the Level of Detail Expected...  

Fans also had become Disappointed in the Revelation that the Space Jockey was indicated as a 8ft Race of Bald Humans who had been our Creators/Gods.....   Many Expected some kind of more Alien/Lovecraft Plot and Aesthetic that close matched the Scene from ALIEN.

Some may have expected Xenomorph's but i dont think this was 100% a Problem it was more so they was NEVER replaced by anything similar....  Zombie Fifield, Face Rape Space Cobra certainly is not as Adequate as something that had more Connection to the Xenomorph, main Problem being the Engineer and Fifield completed most of the Kill Count... if this was Split between having some Neomorph like Organism then that would have been better.

The MONEY-SHOT being Dr Shaws Fetus Face Hugger (Trilobite) and its Infecting the Engineer that leads to the Chest Buster (Deacon) but not seeing it do anything... if we had a similar Organism earlier on Kill 2-3 people i think that would have Pleased Fans

So i think those things had NOT been as ALIEN as Fans Expected... but FOX felt all Fans wanted/needed was to get the Xenomorph Origins and see them back and similar... and Hence Alien Covenant but the Plot really just made the Xenomorph something FAR less ALIEN now.

And downgraded the Space Jockey (Engineers) as being insignificant and well more Weaker/Human.

I think the Problem was not really Prometheus but the Sequel.... a Different Sequel could have indicated something more ALIEN as far as the Hierarchy and Agenda above the Engineers.

But in Context to the OT....

If we was to Re-do a Prequel... i think some of Prometheus could still FIT-WELL but we need to tease and then explore in a Further Sequel something MORE ALIEN.

By that even if they RE-MADE the Prequels... i would have the Space Jockey as some Space Suit with a somewhat Human Bald Occupants and make them 10ft Tall.

But then you have something that is Above Them... something more ALIEN...

For Many Years... and i mean even WAY before the Prequels the IDEA was that the EGGS are a Bio-Weapon Created (or obtained) by the Space Jockey Race... for some Unknown Reason/Conflict.

Gigers Mural and Concepts seem to Draw me to another Conclusion....  this may appear to be say 30% we are looking at the Space Jockey Created a Ship that Produces a Bio-Weapon (Eggs) that they Self Sacrifice themselves to Procreate.... but then 70% of me is Drawn to the Same but that the Space Jockey Race are NOT the Creator of any of this, but are just some Race who are USED for this Purpose..

What do they Gain from this? and WHO is at the Top of the Chain....   THIS is where we should have gone and it could have been VERY ALIEN and Lovecraftian!

Dont get me wrong i liked Parker as a Character, but the OT was to choose the Least Important, i just felt that IF they had decided to CUT his Character and hand some of his Lines over to say Bret (Moan about Pay, and about suggesting they Freeze Kane) and then have someone else whack Ash's Head off.

Then his Character as not so Pivotal to the Plot.

We could have replaced Bret with Parker and have Parker be the First Victim of the Xenomorph then Bret would become the Spare Part of sorts...

I actually think the CAST and Number was SPOT-ON there is NO Real Stand out Weak Character.... you would be left with making a Choice from Parker, Bret and Lambert but their Roles did add to the Plot and so a removal of ONE would require another of the remaining Characters to Perform some of the Removed Characters Lines and Scenes.

This is tough.

Parker's engineering ability fit the industrial setting with Brett as his tech...I believe vital to a Nostromo-like-ship look.  Brett's character wasn't central to the plot but Harry Dean Stanton was cast too well to cut.  He looked like he walked right out of a truck stop.

Parker pressing Dallas for pay was pretty good and so was Ash and Dallas' response. Parker telling Lambert to get out of the room when staring at the beast in the face was pretty good too.  Dallas fit well.  Kane was central.  And yes, we can't cut Ripley because she was the survivor and no one would cut Jonesy.  

Lambert was crying and freezing up but she may be the closest example of how I might behave with that demon close by but she would be the one to cut.

Lambert was the emotional proxy, but the crying and freezing (when flight/fight should have kicked in) seemed weaker compared to Parker's practical actions. He whined and complained like a regular person but took action when Ash went nuts while Lambert stood around and basically screamed.

But to be FAIR...

Prometheus for me was FINE... needed some Changes and i did work on a Re-Edit (which i lost) the Engineers Scale was OFF...  they was intended to be 15ft then 10ft but oh well....

There are some Aesthetic Differences too... Ship/Pilot.

What i got from Prometheus was the TALE of Creation, Sub-Creation, then HOW-MUCH knowledge and Free-Will you give your Creation, that causes them to REBEL.... and also allowing your Creations to Create/Pro-Create would be a HUBRIS.

So when talking before Alien Covenant... things were a Mystery and could have been Explored Different.

David was Created by Weyland to Serve Mankind, to replace us for a number of Tasks/Chores.... we could have the Revelation that Mankind was created for a Similar Reason by the Engineers.

We could then have it the Engineers were created by their Creators for a similar Reason too...

So we have a Similar Path repeated over and over..

Then we could go back FURTHER... to the Higher Layer of that Cake.... before the Engineers, maybe they are like Engineers.. Taller.. and then we could Explore above these Taller Beings and THIS is when things get ANCIENT like Really Ancient and TOTALLY ALIEN...

Thats HOW i was looking to explore it with my Prometheus sequel/prequel ideas...

Some Interesting Ideas and Changes there Ingeniero

The Ozymandias from Alien Covenant i interpret in relation to the Prologue, where Weyland has amassed all these Arts and Creations (inc the Piano) with the Principle being that all these MATTER NOT for when the Time of Death comes... you cant take them with you and if there is NOTHING then they can NO longer be Remembered or Appreciated by their Dead Owner.

Its about Immortality in that there are many ways you can be Immortalized,  that is in the Memory of your Generations/Off-Spring, by the Deeds or Creations you have done which inc Art/Music, by what Famous Deeds you have done... and by having Monuments and Statues Erected in your Memory.

And so in Context the Ozymandias is to indicate that even such Monuments will in TIME Fade Away and be Lost in the Sands... and so its to show that EVERY Civilization will come to a END and eventually NOTHING remains.

For Example... this could be all that Remains of New York (well similar or even LESS) in say 25'000-40'000 Years Time especially of the Earth Dies... loses its Atmosphere and becomes a Mars!

So thats kind of what i Interpret the Ozymandias quote in relation to Alien Covenant.... with the Flash Back its like David referencing that after his Actions... that all that Remains of the Engineers is their City and Monuments but that Eventually they will Disappear!

I would say that in Millions of Years Time the Earth could look more like MARS with some Remains of our Civilization....  But more so say if we was to go back say 2000-3000 years ago and the Earth suffered a Disaster that RID the Atmosphere and then those Civilizations would be LOST and only Great Monuments would remain like say the Giza Pyramids... the rest Burred by Sands!

So to PUT that in Context with the OT...  then maybe it was best to Explore the Space Jockey Race as just that.... a LONG LONG GONE.. Civilization

With only some Remains of Ancient Structures that are LONG abandoned... NO Living Space Jockey, but we get some Murals and maybe Activate a Record System (like in Prometheus) that can give some Clues and Indications of their Society but maybe keep it relevant to the Eggs.

That way as i said in another reply, you would NOT have to be Bogged Down with Details about Gods and Stuff or to Explore and show any Living Space Jockey and WHAT they was all about...

Maybe you could uncover 1-2 Alive ones in some kind of Cryo-sleep. But they Ultimately will be KILLED and that would be the END of them...... well as far as LOCALLY in the Galaxy (within say 10'000+ LY)

Certainly DK

This could be considered as merely a OVERSIGHT...

Indeed the PLOT (Alien) came about from Starbeast where we had a Separate Temple/Pyramid with the Eggs and when HR Giger came aboard and the Draft Changed, it was still Planned to have a Separate Egg Chamber, in which HR Giger even did some Concept for the Separate Egg Silo.

The SETS where Built.. and so they would RE-USE the Same Set but make Few Changes for the Pilot Chamber and Egg Storage Chamber.  The idea would have been to have a External Shot of a Separate Silo/Mound and where the Human Crew would be seen walking to this and Scaling it..  But Time Restraints and Budget Restrictions meant that had to be CANED and so before Shooting the Plot got Changed a little to incorporate the Cargo Hold as UNDER the Pilot Room.

And so the Status Quo then was the Egg Chamber was Part of the Derelict.

HOWEVER... anyone who sees the Movie Alone, would maybe not always 100% Conclude the Chamber was inside the Ship for a Number of Reasons.  And SCALE is one such Reason.

And so in Context to the OT.... as in if we could Re-do the Prequel Prometheus or Replace it.....

Then INDEED you could explore that the Ship is sitting ON-TOP of a Underground Egg Chamber.

The only Problem with doing this would be that any kind of Prequel that would give Answers, or a Movie set AFTER say Alien or Aliens that would go back and give Answers....  would be a Movie that would Kind-of just be doing the same as what happened in ALIEN.

Unless the Human Crew in said Movie would Discover another ENTRANCE to the Egg Chamber and maybe a Underground System... with Answers...

But this as well as having LV-426 have Multiple such Underground System of Tunnels and Chambers, would get us to WONDER... as to WHY the Company Pursue the Xenomorph via Ripley from Alien 3 on-wards.

Having their be just ONE such Cargo Compartment that is Located on the Derelict which is Destroyed after Hadleys Hope's Destruction would take care of such a Plot Hole/Conflict.

I agree with RS (back prior to 2014) in that the Derelict had left from some place else and ENDED UP on LV-426 via a Crash Landing as a Good Explanation.  Then you could explore from WHERE the Derelict had left for a Prequel... which is what Prometheus had loosely indicated.

The Discrepancy of the Size of the Cargo Hold, could just be accepted as a Oversight... but as i said with the OT as far as its Purpose.... then to go back and RE-DO a Prequel then YEAH you could indicate the Cargo Hold is Separate to the Ship... surely.

1) What Time-Line do you set the Movie in, also include any Flash Back Scene Time-Lines?

Early 1800s and Engineer historical timeline based on the timeline in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.

2) What Location do you set the Movie on/in, back to LV-426, a near by Moon/Planet (like was done with LV-223) or another Place in the Galaxy? maybe also HOW FAR away does this take Place?

LV-223, Earth, Planet 4, a juggernaut on the botton of the Pacific Ocean sounds really cool (it does sound like a Cameron movie).

3) Do you go for a Direct Prequel where you explain what happened to the Derelict, and then do you DO-SO in a Chronological Route, or Provide Solid Clues/Flash Backs? OR do you infer Clues that would drawn Fans to WHAT likely happened without having to Visit or Show the Derelict?

3 Prequel route with changes to what is seen in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant with the remaining prequel being the Alien: Covenant Origins novel made into film including the decades before the novel took place on Earth.

“Bodies were ripped apart, exploded, sundered, until dismembered skeletons began to pile up against the sides of buildings like white foam from a wave. A tsunami of blood ran down first one street, then another.”

Alien: Covenant Origins Prologue

The above description in the novel is somewhat similar to what MonsterZero describes above with the xenomorph infestation on a planet.  The book doesn’t specifically say “xenomorph” here but the end product (blood tsunami) sounds the same.

4) Do you explore the Space Jockey, and to what Extent and Detail, do you see any ALIVE Space Jockey's? How Deep do you explore their Agenda and History or Set up this for a Sequel?  

The Space Jockey is still left a mystery in the prequel films in order to remain that way in Alien.

Do you have them Communicate with Each Other and Provide Sub Titles?  Do they/can they Communicate with Humans and HOW? N/A

5) Do you offer a Direct Answer to WHERE/HOW those Eggs had Originated from?  And what the Connection the Space Jockey has with them?

MonsterZero’s idea of scraping eggs off the sides of juggernauts tends to reconcile with the Giger art where the eggs are generates in a wall…I love that idea as well as the Engineer transportation hub. 

The Space Jockey is still a preferred mystery but to see something hard to understand such as Space Jockey tech or Engineers attacked in some way like described above would be preferable. 

6) Do you introduce the Xenomorph, or do you introduce something a bit Different?

I’m going to agree with Leto on the need for more Neomorph time.

7) How do you introduce Human Characters because they surely would be NEEDED, and so its HOW do any Humans END-UP at a Location that would then allow us to Answer some of those Questions left from ALIEN?

Alien: Genesis

Mary Godwin, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Lord Byron and his personal physician, John William Polidori were trapped inside a villa due to weather. They spent their time crafting scary stories to tell one another in the Summer of 1816 and from these stories came Frankenstein and The Vampyre. 

The opening scene in the villa could be Mary Godwin (later Shelley) delivering Frankenstein to Percy, Lord Byron, and John with images of the Engineers flashing during her telling of the modern Prometheus tale. Percy Bysshe Shelley wrote Ozymandias in anticipation of the arrival of the Rameses II statue once the British Museum announced the acquisition and schedule for delivery in 1818.  

The opening of the prequel (Alien: Genesis) would close with visuals consisting of moving the statue from Egypt all the way to placing it at the British Museum and the unveiling to the public while hearing Ozymandias with a flashback to when the statue was new, magnificent…then fade to the relic in the museum the statue had become. 

This approach would bring in the references/concepts from literature early, later to be reinforced that were somewhat lost in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.  

Scenes Cut, Scenes Restored, Changes

Prometheus

The changes to the Prometheus content would be:

a)the Fifield and Milburn scenes alone in the pyramid and the Deacon born would be cut for time and reduced to short COMNET feeds uploaded from the helmets and the Lifeboat,

b) the ending from Prometheus would be the same ending except for a corporate rep shown reviewing the CLASSIFIED COMNET feeds from the Prometheus Mission and seeing what happened to Fiflield and Milburn.  

This approach would reconcile with how the company compartmentalized information seen in the novels and other films.  The Synthetic White Noise described in the novels fits well with what is seen in Prometheus, Alien, Aliens in regards to communication issues.

“Andrea Rollins didn’t care in the least about white noise or interference. She did, however, pay a great deal of attention to the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static.

Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down into its component parts. It wasn’t a technology currently available on the market. Hers was the only computer on the ship capable of breaking down the coded information.”

March 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.

Anything out of the ordinary  on LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4, and the security cameras on Fury 161 would certainly be tagged and scrambled only for Weyland-Yutani select computers to decode such as seen with Andrea Rollins.  She ran a goon-squad on LV-178 and provided great healthcare to them if they came back up to the ship wearing a facehugger. 

Showing this form of encryption, management with COMNET is a way to showcase Weyland-Yutani Corporation and it’s competitors' technology as well.

Alien: Covenant

The following changes would be made to Alien: Covenant:

a) The Crossing would be edited and inserted as flash backs where David and Walter speak outside looking over the Planet 4 city complete with the attack shown while David is quoting Ozymandias,

b) Walter would be notified of the destructive event while in the garden and not the colonists chamber,

c) the Synthetic/Construct kiss would be cut,

d) the juggernauts scene cut from Alien: Covenant where Sergeant Lope shoots a flair below would be restored, and

e) the Neomorph would kill Hallett and not a throat explosion.  No one bends down to huff extrasolar spores, insulting.

"Hah! I suppose you are right. It just feels like we have been down this road before"

I think maybe kind of, its HARD to come up with anything thats never been done before in Sci-Fi

I assume the MAIN Focus is the TALE of Knowledge and Influences that has.  By that the WORLD has a Wide Variety of Politics, Religion, Empathy Levels or Lack of...  and so the Influences that a Human is surrounded by and Experiences and Knowledge gained can SHAPE the Character of a Person.

Mankind is Driven by many things include Pride, Desire, Ambition, Greed among others... some Traits are Good and some are Not so Good.    People are Shaped by their Environment and by that if we took Adolf Hitler and he was brought up  in a Different Country, Different Era and by Different Parents and Education etc..... then its LIKELY he would NOT have been the same Wicked Person!

So lets look at Humanity and the Earth and Imagine what it could be like in say 100 Years, we could be on a Dying Planet we could still be Causing Harm to the Earth, and Each Other....  And those who Dont... well the World could already be in a BAD SHAPE and there is LITTLE that can be Changed.

If you was a GOD who Created all this (Earth, and its Inhabitants) and you looked at the Earth and Humanity say 1000, 2000 Years ago... then Compare it to TODAY you would be SHOCKED at the Damage/Harm that Mankind has Done!

So just as with the Covenant Mission (they wanted a FRESH Start to escape the Rotting Paradise of Earth) If you wanted to SAVE Mankind and START Again and NOT to repeat the Errors of our Ways...

Then you would want to go FIND a Earth-like Virgin Planet to Populate, and to Populate this with INNOCENT Children would be ideal as they would have NO such Influences and on a Virgin World they can be SHAPED to be a BETTER Humanity....

Having Robots to take care and Raise such Children who (Robots) would not be effected by our Emotional Desires and Ambitions that can have Negative/Selfish Implications would be more IDEAL.

And so i think THIS is what the Main Objective of the Androids and this Virgin World is, so they can Re-Populate Humanity and Raise them without Certain Vices/Bad Influences.

Then a Incoming Human ship that has Various Different Personalities and Religions etc, would ARRIVE and the Interaction of these with the Colony of Children the Androids are Tasked with Raising, could POSE a Problem to the Androids Mission.

What we have really is like a Adam and Eve (Children) and the Other Incoming Humans would be like Satan in the Garden and the Persuading of the Eating of the Forbidden Fruit!

God in reaction to this had to make some Tough Choices...

I am sure those TWO Androids may have to make some too...

I suspect we will see Inner Conflict for those Children as in Discovering what other Humans are like and what Drives them, and some of this could be Appealing to them, some could be Disturbing to some. 

But then some could be Disturbed with seeing those Androids (or ONE) resort to Butchering the other Humans and how would they react to knowing a Creation of Mankind has just been trying to Topple/Kill others of their Kind?

While some of those Children could maybe see the Care that the Androids had placed into them, and see the Potential Bad in the Influence/Corruption and Conflict the Arrival of these other Humans could have on their PARADISE.

Thats my Speculative Interpretation... it would be Interesting to see HOW close or HOW wide off the Mark i am.

I am going to have to say its PARKER

For the Following Reasons....

Ripley is the Main Protagonist and Character and Survivor

Dallas is Secondary Main Character and Captain

Ash becomes One of the Main Antagonist and Plot Twist

Lambert provides the Emotional Proxy for the Viewer

Kane is our Introduction to the Horrific Beast

Bret is the Adult Xenomorph's First Victim

Parker mainly just moans about stuff, makes some Wise Comments (WHY dont they just Freeze Him as in Kane).

But he is NOT really Important to the PLOT the other Characters Function as Part of Important parts of the PLOT.  And so if he was Removed it would NOT really effect the Movie.   You could say he is just really the Ford (Prometheus) of the Movie ;)

I still think that Kotto did a Good Job, my point being that he is the one with the LESS Impact on the Plot.

Thank you for writing that dk...  That's so funny.  

I was thinking the same thing about my review for Another Life (here) and was looking for a way to address it.  

Selma Blair and Katee Sackoff were both in Another Life and I didn't finish the last part of the series where I believe you wrote it had it came into it's own later on.  

Maybe I shouldn't have put Another Life in the Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome file just yet.

Haven’t posted anything on here since covenant came out. I still read all your entries, and enjoy them thoroughly. Big Dave might remember me, I’m the nerdy biologist from Vail colorado. I posted a subject about how the Xenomorph is nowhere near to the perfect organism. Anyway I’m just not a good enough writer to feel confident on how I feel about the alien series. Anyway to the question, I have to agree Lambert could be removed, but if your not including the deleted scenes.  Brett could be done away with as well. If not for the egg morphing scene he is just another kill character. 

There has to be more than robots babysitting church kids.

Hah! I suppose you are right. It just feels like we have been down this road before. Who made who(m?). Maybe I was too harsh but I feel cautiously optimistic at best. 

@ dk,

I once believed as you did until I read this... Are the eggs on LV-426 still there, page 3 (read posts by BigDave and daliens).

Gender & Robots

If I am completely honest their relationship has never changed from my first draft, though the story and its execution has. The way I wrote it was instinctive. Michael said that Elizabeth fascinated David. The look on his face in the briefing and the Africa scene is a mixture of intense curiosity and awestruck. Once she had shown him more kindness than any other human being he is happy with his role as a super servant and he wanted to be perfect for her on her terms. So I agree with you. 

However, as matters become clearer and clearer beginning in Chapter 8 through to 14 then he becomes the candid friend (Ali) and unknowingly is also being tested. 

The comment I am making here in the story is what better way to deal with an upside notion of everything with everyone involved making mistakes than a machine and one who has been on a journey to neutrality. 

To reach that neutrality you could interpret that it is achieved in "the Prophesy" when he is born again, born anew. The first time he is born The Piero Della Francesca is in the room telling him there is a hole in the roof which will enable him to find heaven. The second time he is renewed the same light comes from the roof above in the "place of connection" and at his feet are the three ghorwa. 

So is he taking upon himself the mantle of Moses, is there an echo in his final act of freeing the Israelites from slavery? I think there are echos but I don't think so, he is simply caught up in his transformative morality tale. So he is a super servant to Elizabeth but grows into a super servant of all. 

To summarise Davids behaviour and her response cover a good deal of ground but it is not the destination it is part of their separate journey. However, I think it is fascinating to look at this enabling relationship where they give each other quite different gifts.

There is a comment within their story about sexuality. From the quarantine room onwards they are engaged in very intimate contact and in both directions, David helps her pre Caesarean and Elizabeth carries him from the downed craft to the operating table. She would have manoeuvred his head very carefully over his torso before making the connections.  

That kind of interaction is carried through into the original work in many different ways and they also pursue two moments of music but by implication, because in his current state he has no reproductive or sexual narrative, it is always defined by the head and the heart but not the hips.

Thank you again for your observations.

Intelligent Design.

As the proposition is that hidden within all our myths and belief systems is the truth then concerns about a particular subtext would not be warranted. 

On BBC Radio 3 on Tuesday afternoon the following was played. 

BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra conducted by Nicholas Carter from the 2019 Lammermuir Festival

Stuart MacRae: Prometheus Symphony for soprano, baritone and orchestra
(Jennifer France - soprano)
(Paul Carey Jones - baritone)

 A new work which I really enjoyed but what fascinated me was the simple introduction of the Myth. The Titan that fashioned Man out of Clay and provided him with the Gift of Fire. So that's in the story through

 1) The transmission sequence of bringing the liquid and earth element together to make Clay. 

 2) The visits recorded in the Pictograms.

However, the passing of the sacrificial bowl by the Origin Engineer to the Acolyte/Chosen one, echos the sacrament.

Just a simple example of how Greek Mythology and Christian ritual in this story refract the truth. One could go on but the proposition is the footprint is a mosaic. As we know in the earthbound religions all sorts of people maintain they own God at the expense of others.

This story is saying your all wrong no one owns him/her it or they, indeed we haven't met God yet and the Gods wouldn't even describe themselves as Gods.

I have a problem imagining the Juggernaut carryng the same eggs that were found on LV 426. The scale is wrong.

I like the idea of the eggs being like cosmic barnacles of sorts though.

Maybe the ship just landed on top of the big nest as Giger originally imagined. Maybe LV 426 is the Xeno planet or moon that was asleep and awakened after the Juggernaut landed on its hive. Then it went dormant again until the Alien crew came along?

Just finished it!

Wow...vicious book! Really good.

Would love to see this made into a movie.

Necromorph is really cool.....Don't want to spoil too much?

BigDave is on the right track. ;-)

Black goo is mentioned! 

It's worth 5.99$ .......support the franchise at least? Buy it!

I'll discuss it more in a couple of months. Let everyone read it.

Chili 

Genre 

I am encouraged by your remarks after all this is a subforum of a science fiction forum which was much more active at one time so it's difficult to tell if it represents the wider audience. I know my contacts outside of this forum went to see Prometheus but not Covenant. I recall seeing a poster on P.com who described the franchise as multi-generational that would suggest to me a broad palette does make sense.            

Cont... 

"At one point, Fox were toying with the idea of ret-conning Alien 3 and Resurrection entirely with Blomkamp's Alien 5 project before it was indefinitely shelved."

Rightfully so!

I think it would be a BAD idea to coin in some Alternative Universes,  for example with BATMAN we have the 89/90's Movies, then we have the DARK KNIGHT Alternative Series, and then we have the JUSTICE LEAGUE Franchise.  I just dont think something like that would be IDEAL for the ALIEN Franchise.

Or a Camerons like Retcon Terminator 2 Sequel.

I think Blomkamps Ideas could be used in another Movie in the Franchise.... but NONE that would bring back RIPLEY.

I dont think we even need to have Miss Weaver again...

Unless its a ALIEN V set after Alien Resurrection..

Exploring a Amanda Ripley in TV Series Format, or referencing Ellen Ripley would not be a Problem though.

I do HOWEVER have a idea for HOW they could introduce a PLOT where we have Amanda Ripley reunited with her Mother... or so she thinks... that would GET around the Age of Ripley ;)

A Plot that would be after the Conclusion of Amanda and her Mission to RID the Galaxy of the Xenomorph, where she is recovered Stranded in Cryo-sleep.

A Plot say in the TIME-LINE of Post ALIENS but FAR before Alien Resurrection ;)

I think going back to the OT...

Then i would say that MOST did-not like the Direction that Alien Covenant had taken, but going back Prior i think that about 30-40% only had a Few Bones to pick with Prometheus.

When looking prior to that then the WHOLE how do you do a Prequel and have the Humans involved was a STICKING POINT...   The Root Cause for Spaights to offer the Chariots of the Gods like PLOT.... however such a PLOT had made the Space Jockey Tale something that was NOT really ALIEN enough... for quite a % of people.

I think with Gavin, you had shown that there are other ways to SET-UP a Plot to HOW-COME any Humans would End Up at a Location that is Connected to the Space Jockey and Eggs...  without it being a Simple Accidental/By Coincidence or a First Discovery of the SOS.

I think another STICKING POINT would be how ALIEN is the Space Jockey, and then it would be HOW/IF they can communicate with Each Other and more so the Humans.

Then this is NOT so much a Sticking Point as with the Predator Franchise our Alien Hunters do-not seem to communicate with us, but can Mimic/Repeat what we say, so thats in effect like taking a Amazon Rain Forrest Native who has NO outside Contact with other Cultures and dropping him off to say CHINA and then how they would Communicate.

But then and i guess the same applies with the Predators, if you wish to continue to explore a Alien Intelligent Species and cover their Agenda and History then does having a Language Barrier become a Problem?   You could have Sub-Titles between say Predators interacting with each other, and so the same could be done with the Space Jockey Race....

But then its HOW does any Interaction come with said Alien Race and Humans?

Maybe there is NO Need or its BEST to not really explore in Depth the Space Jockey Race?   I mean would Fans want to Discover more about the Predators.. or are we Content that this Species just go around HUNTING different Species for Sport/Trophy with no other Depth apart from that this is Seen as a Honor and Coming of Age Ritual for that Species.

In Closing..... 10+ Years ago i guess none of us really would Fathom that the Space Jockey Species had any Interaction with Mankind, or maybe any Intention to do so.

What we had is what at that Time was considered a ALIEN Species who had that Cargo of Eggs and became Infected, we NEVER knew WHY or for what Purpose...

It was indicated by RS back 10+ Years ago and longer that what we had here was a SHIP that was Carrying Bio-Logical Warfare...

so then we had to ASK...

*Did they Engineer/Create these Bio-Weapons?

*Did they discover these Organisms and intended to use them for Bio-Logical Weapons?

Then it was a case of for WHAT Reason? WHO had they had any Conflict with, what other Race? Or was it a Conflict Between themselves?

THIS ^^^ would be the Main thing to Explore if we wanted to explore the Space Jockey more, but then this is a Tricky Subject as far as HOW, because its a case of is this CONFLICT something that is LONG GONE or some place FAR FAR away and so without Flash Backs, then exploring this in Depth/Real Time is TRICKY as far as HOW do you Bring the Humans into play!

I think HENCE is why we had Jon Spaights Plot (Chariots of Gods) to get around such things...

I think that its a MAJOR HURDLE when we explore a ALIEN Species from a Franchise in any Origins/Agenda Capacity and then HOW does that interact with Humanity.

By that we could take The THING... its ok doing a Prequel that shows HOW/WHEN the Organism was Dug Up from the Ice.

However.... to take it further back and ask things like.

*What is The THING'S Origin, where did it come from?  Is it a Natural Organism, a Bio-Weapon?

*Was that Flying Saucer its OWN Ship, or a Ship of another Race that had Encountered The THING.. and if so then WHO was this Unfortunate Species and HOW did they come into Contact with The THING?

And the Problem becomes.... HOW do you cover those Questions and have it relate to Humans?

Should such Details had REMAINED a Secret?

Or do you offer a SIMPLE route, which would be to have a Movie (does not have to be Prequel) where they re-discover the Flying Saucer and Manage to Activate some Record System that gives some Indication of WHAT happened, and HOW that Ship then ENDED UP heading towards Earth?

So in CONTEXT to ALIEN what i am saying is that maybe, a Prequel should have (does-not have had to be a Prequel) but should we have had a Movie where they go to the Derelict and Explore it more...

Activated some Record Device that would Indicate what the Space Jockey Fate was (Pretty Obvious) but then also Records that would indicate this was a Bio-Logical Warfare Mission, maybe even indicating a STAR Location to the Intended TARGET that could be explored in a Future Movie... or from WHERE the Derelict had Originated.

Such a Plot could then take us to another World where we would get some more Clues to HOW the Xenomorph was obtained... such as Engineered, or Discovered as it was.

And so to Negate the Reason to Explore in Depth WHO the Space Jockey was and WHAT conflict they was involved in...   simply showing that the RACES involved had been LONG GONE... Tens of Thousands of Years ago.

Showing Remains of a Powerful Race had attempted the Destruction of the Space Jockey, who had came to USE/CREATE the Xenomorph as a means to Combat a Race who had more Superior Fire Power, leaving the Space Jockey Race having to Resort to the USE of a Horrid Bio-Weapon...

So we only get clues via the Space Jockey World, that is MAYBE Destroyed by some Conventional Weapon (Nuke, Energy Weapon) and the Aggressors either fell Victim to the Xenomorph after a Successful Mission by the Space Jockey Race and so the Aggressors World is NOW a Xenomorph HIVE!

Or the Aggressors after Defeating the Space Jockey Race, had came across their Planned Bio-Weapon Cache and taken some of this to their HOME-WORLD to Study and see how they can put it to USE in their Conquest...

But the HUBRIS being that they FELL PREY to the Bio-Weapon and it Destroyed their World/Race!

Such a PLOT would keep a lot of Enigma and Mystery about the Space Jockey Race and the Aggressors they had a Conflict with.

It WOULD-NOT matter about showing Interaction between Humans and these Races, or even giving away Details and Dialog between these Races.

We could have some Flash Back Scenes... but we dont need FULL Details about the Races, Culture etc..

What we would GET from this is WHY/HOW and maybe WHEN the Xenomorph was Obtained/Created by the Space Jockey and that this Act of Desperation by this Species for Defense, had Defeating a Aggressor but also had been a Downfall for their Species...

And Mankind are NOW left with the Consequences of a Marooned Failed Mission (Derelict) and the Discovery of a Another World (or Few) that this Bio-Weapon had Ravaged!

I think it would be Great to Explore something Different.

And so the Traditional Looking Egg, Face Huger and Adult etc that we have seen in Alien, Aliens especially and the AVP Movies and also Alien Covenant are something i HOPE that each Anthology Series is NOT about.

Because all we are doing then like the Comics/Games and Novels is just coming up with different ways that the Unfortunate Humans Discover... a EGG, a Face Hugger, a Infected Host or Queen.

Because if its about THEM... then every Movie, Game, Comic and Novel has basically covered ALL the Avenues on Multiple Occasions.

Not saying we cant have Xenomorphs... but HOW do they get Introduced in a way that has NOT been covered before?

Then if you did this... i think each other Season has to have a Different Horror, or Experiment, Mutation that is Different....  because if the only DIFFERENCE is

WHERE, WHEN and HOW the Humans come into Contact with a EGG, FACE HUGER or Infected HOST then it would just get Repetitive...  and we are just going to Re-Hash things from Games, Comics and Novels into a TV Format.

Does Disney have any BALLS to try something Different? I will say Ridley Scott did... but then seems Powers to Be had attempted to Castrate his Balls ;)

Necromorph is Interesting i think it depends on WHAT its purpose would be that Warrants such a Name!

A Hybrid/Evolution that Does-Not Die?

Ridley Scott had said about the Xenomorph that you have to Evolve it and Explore different kinds of Procreation.

So looking at that and if someone came to me and said right, we gonna introduce a Different Xenomorph that we are going to call the NECROMORPH. and so what ideas do you think we should look at.

I would SUGGEST that this Hybrid/Evolution can INFECT a Dead Host and so we dont need a Alive Host.. 

The Dead Host would then Be Infected by the Necromorph and either.

1) Its Body Mutates into a Egg.

2) Multiple Eggs Spawn from the Decomposing/Infected Corpse.

3) The Infected Dead Corpse Produces a Chest Buster like Organism inside.

4) The Infected Dead Corpse would come back to LIFE and Mutate into a Xenomorph like Horror.

This would be something NEW and would Warrant being called a Necromorph.  It would also make the Organisms Procreation Options not as Limited as the Originals... thus MORE of a Threat ;)

I will say that a Anthology Series where each Season would be about a Different Story, does sound Interesting but there could be a FEW Problems.

1) The Franchise does-not have to Center around the Usual Xenomorph Egg, and our Typical Eight Fingered Friend and the Typical Outcome of this..... as well as QUEENS.

Because i think Ridley Scott was right when he said there is ONLY so much Face Hugging and Chest Busting that you can do, and if every Movie, Comic, Game, Novel and TV Series would be about the Traditional Egg, Face Huger, Chest Buster and Xenomorph that we have Especially seen in Alien, Aliens and the AVP Movies, then eventually it could become STALE and so Overcooked..

The Prequels with other Horrors offers us many Fresh Avenues...  Also the ALIEN Franchise could be about more than Eggs, Queens and Ripely and Marines.

2) The Reaction to the FIRST Season would be Important, if it SUCKS and Bombs... would we get a Season 2.. if it does-not do well and yet tries to cover MORE than Queens, Eggs etc (especially if these are a lesser role or do-not appear).... then would it FORCE a Season 2 to be about Eggs and Queens?

On the FLIP-SIDE if it does very WELL but the First Season is about Eggs and Queens, then would they (Disney) not want to RISK making another Series that offers something different?

I guess what i am trying to say is that IF the First Season is a HIT both in Terms of Critical Response and How Many Viewings...  say the PLOT is Good, Characters work etc.

Then would they be Reluctant to do something DIFFERENT with Season 2 and play it SAFE and Continue with the Same Characters/Plot?

IF we have a Successful Season 1 and Season 2 explores something different and New Characters and Settings and IT does not do as well as Season 1, would then then make Season 3 and on-wards a Continuation of Season 1?

I say this because if feel that DISNEY would stick to something that Works/Does well and then MILK IT... or if something is Different and does-not quite work, i feel they would go back to the Eggs, Queen and Ripely Formula and MILK that.

Dont mean to be Pessimistic ;)

I am hopeful we get a TV Series and then it should be Judged on its own Merits, i think what ever happens it will please some Fans...   I just hope they are NOT afraid of Mixing Things up and Changing things... but then looking at the Back Lash of the Prequels..

And looking at the Many Novels and Games i do wonder if they see these kinds of Plots as Playing it SAFE!

Cont . . .

Gender and Robots

Apart from the biological instincts of females to be drawn to men who either radiate or have factual power, a handsome manservant with both intellectual and physical power who fulfils a woman’s every need - without an obligation of nocturnal “payment” must be a dream come true? :)

There is already on the market, I think, a “female”, good looking robot who can fulfil a man’s every dream, and without a shred of nagging. :)

I says lets wait and see and Fingers Crossed... i think MAYBE this is True.... i am not so sure on the Status of a Alien Covenant Sequel though.

If these Series are to take into Account the Prequels, then i think that means they would either NOT cover anything from the Prequels, so they DONT contradict/conflict them or SET-UP some Information that FORCES a Prequel Continuation down a SET PATH..

However who knows if Disney/FOX are 100% behind what Ridley Scott had on his mind for the Prequels and so ANY kind of TV Series would NOT conflict these?

They did say they had Produced a 10 PAGE Rule Book that Future Movies etc would have to Reference to, so to AVOID any Conflicts/Contradictions... but if so then these (RULES) can be SCRAPPED

"....as in Blackwinter Witch's ship of the same name?!"

Conspiracy lol...  i never did read her stuff, i have to make the Effort to do so ;)

Pirate Ship is Interesting as a few times i mentioned as far as making a NEW Alien Movie, that some kind of Space Pirates or Space Scrap Junkers who encounter a Stranded Ship and attempt to STEAL or SALVAGE from the Ship, soon encounter the Reason the Ship in Question became a Space Hulk..

So as far as this Novel goes i guess it seems Interesting, but for me the Problem i have is the Novels and Comics seem to be about the Same/Similar thing...

Discovery of a Egg/Eggs, Face Huger or Infected Person with Said Face Hugger and then this leads to a Xenomorph/Xenomorphs that are Very Similar/Same as from either ALIEN/ALIENS or the AVP Movies.

Thats not knocking the Novel... there is a Market for these, i just would like to see a Novel/Comic that has something different.  Because just as Ridley Scott had said, there is only SO MUCH of the Face Hugging, Chest Bursting that can be done before you have to think of something FRESH.

I think the Prequels with the Various Horrors within (aside from Xenomorph) offer a Variety of Different things to cover.  So you can have that ALIEN VIBE without the Xenomorph we are used to from the Original 4 Movies and AVP's.

The Plot does seem similar to what i Interpreted that Alien Awakening could be about, maybe he is using some Elements that he realized he may have to DROP with his AC Sequel?

Here is what i read into it... and AC2 Connection.

TWO Androids Tasked with Raising Children on a Virgin Planet, this indicates that a Mission to Colonize a New World was underway where the Colonist would be Children, maybe they are Raised from Birth (Embryo).

We have to ASK why would the Androids be Tasked with taking ONLY Children?  Because Knowledge and Teaching Corrupts and Religions cause  Conflict, and so to START a New World that is Free from the Various Aspects of Religion and Difference of Political Spectrum should see a World where these Children are Raised without Outside Interference and Conflict.

I then assume another Ship with Humans with Various Religious Beliefs comes in and ENDS up on this Virgin World and the Androids Face the Task of how do they Contain the Influences of these Humans from Earth and Various Religious Views, from Effecting the None-Religious Haven the Androids have been Building with those Children.

Thats my Interpretation of Raised by Wolves...

Many Months before this was announced, i had Interpreted and Assumed that Alien Covenant's Sequel would be about....

David taking the Colonist to Origae-6, they Set-Up and Build a Somewhat Basic Village (Wooden Buildings etc) once some Infrastructure is set up, i assume David would then KILL-OFF the Adults and take the SHIP to another Part of the Planet (Adults could be used for Horrific Experiments).

David then Engineers those Human Embryo's to create a more Superior Human Species that he would Raise under his Rules and History that he gives them, which they would be TOLD that he was their Creator.... the Covenant Mission and Adults would be KEPT a Secret from them.

so we have these Engineered Humans (from Embryo's) that live in a kind of Ancient Basic, Cultist Society, like the Amish People but there Religion/Beliefs are Influenced by David as the Creator and whatever he wishes to Teach them/Have them believe.

Then another Human Ship arrives who are also looking to get away from Earth and have a New Life.... and then David is Facing a Difficult Task of what happens when these Humans arrive, and Discover the Society that David has Built...

What do his Creations then think when they see other Humans who may be slightly different, and they come with another being who LOOKS exactly the Same as their Creator?

They discover their True Origins and History are NOT what they had been Taught by David and that their So Called Creator is actually a Creation of their True Ancestors?

This in PART is what i thought that AC2 would be about... its what i then had explored with my TWO sequels.. Alien Ascension and Alien Absolution which i abandoned.

But News of AC2 went into Limbo, then we got this Raised by Wolves Announcement and looking at the Synopsis etc i think its NOT FAR off the Plot i predicted that AC2 may have...  it seems it shares a number of Elements.

So i wondered is Ridley Scott using some ideas he had for AC2 in Raised by Wolves out of Fear that AC2 will not be made or that if we got a Sequel then a lot of what RS had planned would have to be SCRAPED?

I think it could be a Interesting Sci-Fi Series, i think its worth giving it a Chance for the First 4 Episodes

Not sure its what ALIEN fans would like to see, they may prefer a ALIEN Bug Hunt Series.  But lets see what the ALIEN Series would also bring... i just think it should not be about Eggs and Face Hugers every Season.

Are you still awake MonsterZero reading the novel or have you finished yet?

I Raptus...I had a dog and his name was Bingo.

There has to be more than robots babysitting church kids.

Manticore

A ship in the story has a name that sounds very familiar, below.

"This had started as another routine smash-and-grab job. The Manticore was a pirate vessel, and the crew had thievery down to a science."

....as in Blackwinter Witch's ship of the same name?!

It sounds interesting, but the synopsis sounds like it confirms what most people already know. Pass.

People going nowhere, taken for a ride
Looking for the answers that they know inside
Searching for a reason, looking for a rhyme
Snow White's mirror said "partners in crime"- Black Sabbath

Collider.com

"Created by writer Aaron Guzikowski, whose masterful 2013 Prisoners ranks among the best thrillers of the decade, the series will be a 10-part story. Guzikowski will also serve as showrunner.

Here’s an official synopsis:

The series centers on two androids tasked with raising human children on a mysterious virgin planet. As the burgeoning colony of humans threatens to be torn apart by religious differences, the androids learn that controlling the beliefs of humans is a treacherous and difficult task." (source)

So glad Fox is continuing these Alien novels!

Just bought for my Kindle...will start to read tonight.