Comments (Page 187)

@chli,

We cannot with absolute certainty claim that every step we saw Dallas, Kane, and Lambert take while within the derelict is every step they will have actually taken. This technique is commonly used, such as showing someone depart for and then arrive at their destination, with the journey in between either edited or omitted entirely.

@ BigDave,

IMO, and it is my opinion only I believe you have the scale somewhat wrong, here is the same picture of the derelict prop you have used but with where I believe the space Jockey is, and its approximate size in relation to the vessel...

As I see it, Dallas, Kane, and Lambert enter the middle (or left), vaginal entrance by just walking on the rocky ground. So the opening is quite close to the ground. Then, as far as we can see in the movie, they walk straight on until Kane sees that he can climb up on a shelf (perhaps two metres up). When they have climbed up, they are next to the Space Jockey. This would mean that they are, say, 6 metres from the ground. But as Kane is lowered through the hole, they need a winch and a very long rope and you can see that he is lowered down into a huge cave (which Kane thinks it is). I would guess that he is lowered down at least 30 metres (which would be under the Derelict).

@Gavin

I agree its HARD to work out the BOTTOM of the Derelict as it its Obscured by the Rocks and so we dont know how much is Buried...

The Pilot Chamber would be under the DOME but i feel the Pilot Chamber Set is only about 60% of the Actual Pilot Room, i made a Image to Compared with HR Gigers Concept of the Pilot Room, and also bare in mind the Actual Prop SET they had Recycled the Egg Chamber which in that instance only showed about 50% of the Egg Chambers Height.

This does not RULE-OUT a Buried part of the Derelict.

The ABOVE Image is only just ROUGH, but it is to show that IF we was to Explore the Derelict then having its shown (or the Same Model of Ship) as having another Part of the Ship that is Partially Buried and Obscured by the Rock, taking into account the Dimensions i attempted to Work Out, then i think its VERY PLAUSIBLE the Derelict could have some PART of it that became Buried a say 50-60ft of it.

However..... i think as ABOVE that some kind of Detachable Cargo Hold would make more Sense as FAR as Storage and Deployment of a Deadly Bio Weapon.

Well this is coming from a company that tried to trademark Cinco De Mayo

@BigDave,

In the second image you posted, I think you need to move the yellow line (base of Derelict) down a fraction and then move the red line (bottom of the cargo hold) up to the yellow line, as in my opinion, I believe the pilot's chamber is the small dome atop the derelict. Then I think you'll find the cargo hold does, in fact, fit within the vessel.

You only have to look at the Terminator series to know that a retcon of 3 and R is the last thing the franchise needs. Just make new stories set in the existing canon but with new settings and characters. An anthology series would be a good place to start. Make stories like Alien Isolation, the marine campaign in AvP2 etc. But after Ridley Scott finishes his prequel series please, that story needs to be completed.

Thought this is the BETTER Topic to place this...

I had watched Alien in Detail Last Night... and looked at some Images on the Internet to do some Calculations, these are mainly based on the Height however....  but when people talk about the Cargo Hold Size they refer mainly to its Height and how it WONT fit UNDER the Derelict.

The Image i will post NEXT is based off the Set Prop (nearly completed) the Descending Kane to the Cargo Hold, the Long Shot of when the Crew Climb up into the Pilot Chamber, and a Image of them Entering the Derelicts Rear Entrance Holes.

They are Scaled with a Margin of Error of up to 10%

There will be a some Inconsistency/Errors but i think we are in a Good Margin of Error, and these Potential Errors arise from the Production Team based on.

*Using Child Actors for the Long Shots in the Pilot Room, then Adults for Close Up Shots... the Calculations are based on the Distant Shots.

*Matt Painting for the Decent, with Angles that are Harder to Gauge and Scale that MAY-NOT be accurate to the Closer Shots of Kane, including when he reaches the Platform he eventually Falls Off.

*Entering of the Derelict Set, that is a bit Different to the Distant Shots Prop.... (Mainly Rocks Positions and Height prior to the Entrance).

But i think it gives a Good Estimate..

So it would appear the DERELICT would have to be 1.5X the Height in order to FIT the Cargo Hold.

Now some could CLAIM that using my Image you COULD have Potentially got the Cargo Hold and Pilot Room inside... HOWEVER... this would IGNORE that we are NOT being shown the FULL ROOM..   The Pilot Room and Egg Chamber used the SAME SET for the Close Ups...

The SET only went so HIGH and we can see with the Egg Cargo Distant Descending Shot that the SET is CUT off to about HALF the Height of the Egg Chamber.

The Walls of the SET do have a Curve and so if we Consider this like a FISHBOWL then we only see about 50-60% of its Height, and so the Pilot Room likely also is showing  50-60% and if we look where i PLACED the Pilot Room, it Fits the Curvature of the Hull, and Positioned about the Right Place to HOW the Nostromo Crew Entered and began to WALK through the Tunnels that was going UP-HILL and then Climb Up a Area to arrive at the Pilot Room.

I would assume where i placed the FLOOR between the Cargo Hold and Pilot Room to be Accurate as far as a Margin of Moving it up or down by up to 15% Max.

IF my image is Pretty Accurate then what this shows is its NOT so much a MASSIVE Oversight if they try and Convince us its part of the Ship.

It could leave it OPEN to have a Separate Underground Silo... but IF the Ship only needed to be 1.5% Higher then i think the BEST explanation would be the Detachable Cargo Hold that is DROPPED onto Worlds and Collected Again Theory that i had ;)

EDIT

Compared the Cargo Hold with the Scale i Calculated and Silly Me..... the CARGO HOLD would be a PERFECT FIT for the Derelict......  on its OWN... leaving NO SPACE for the Pilot Room though.... ;)

Calculating the DEPTH of the Cargo Hold as FAR as WALL TO WALL (not Height) is not so HARD... i have YET to give this a Detailed Go though... i think it MAY NOT FIT! Because i ASSUME the SHOT we got indicates The Cargo Hold Circles around the Under Part of the Pilot Chair and so we ONLY see a SECTION  of the Cargo Hold.

The WIDTH would be the Difficult Dimension to Work Out, as the Descending Shot, is shown from a Angle where it Snakes off in the Distance... i DOUBT this would FIT in the Derelict....  Unless its Designed how i had Assumed in a Previous Image Before... then i think the Derelict would need to be 1.5X its Size to Accommodate that.

Strange how this shown in fractions of seconds during the movie. Good eye!

To be fair i think maybe we need to give Disney a Chance!

I Fear they would look at what will please the MOST Fans and what would make more $$$$$   And so i would think most of the Projects would be HEAVILY based on similar things that a lot of the Comics and Novels have, and so would cater more for like a ALIENS and be more like a Blomkamps Alien 5 idea or say like a Jon Spaights Alien Engineers only with more Xenomorphs.

They may be interested in Exploring LV-223 and the Black Goo but i dont think they would STEER FAR from showing us Monsters that are more closer to that of the Original Franchise and so something Occasionally like the Neomorph may be as FAR disconnected to the Xenomorph as Disney would be willing to go.

I think they would have a HIGHER interest in the Ripley Family Saga, than Weyland Company Founder and David etc, i also dont expect them to go much depth as far as Engineers...

So it will be Eggs, Xenomorph, Queens, Ripley's,  WY Conspiracy and Greed, Colonial Marines, with the AI/Synthetics and History of the Company and Engineers being something i DOUBT they would explore much.

Oh i expect the David had created the Xenomorph Curve-ball to be Totally Canned!

But i am hopeful DISNEY will prove me wrong ;)

That Concept did show there are more than ONE of the Big Head Rooms.

But it was hard to make out via the Holo-Maps

Here is some Close Ups i did for another Topic a while back with a Layout of the Complex ;)

Hopefully it means the Novel and Games would give us something thats a little different to the Standard Xenomorph that we see in the Franchise... i think Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection was Interesting as far as the Aesthetic being a LITTLE different, i would like to see other more Extreme Differences though.

Just kidding...

Engineering - Parker

Security - Yutani Commandos

Legal - Peter Weyland

Science - Dr. Gedman

Pilot - My favorite pilot is Captain Janek but he put the needs of the few above the company needs. Tennessee might do the same. Bishop is the pilot.

Leader - David 8 (Alien: Covenant)

All-Stars

Engineering - Walter Life Coach - The Walter Life Coach will holistically engineer any environment to support your well being including FTL industrial settings.

Security - Walter Marine - "Take away my gun and I’ll kill you with my flute."

Legal - Walter Adversary - The Walter Adversary comes with a Red Swingline.

Science - Walter Physicist - “Customizable field specialties”

Pilot - Walter Manny - The dropship is the minivan of the 22nd century and the Walter Manny owns minivan operations.

Leader - Walter Manager

DISNEY ALWAYS SUCKED!THEY STEAL MOVIES SO THEY CAN GAIN MONEY!AND A KID THAT WAS GOING TO DIE DIDN'T GET A SPIDERMAN GRAVE,AND MARVEL CREATED SPIDERMAN,AND DISNEY DOES NOT MAKE THE DECISION!

Disney always steals movies and properties,Alien is a horror movie,not a childish movie.

Greedy Disney Bastards!

@Shadow275

Many thanks for your interest. This takes you straight in. 

https://prometheuscontinuationstory.com

I hope you enjoy it and please bear in mind Michael Fassbender's remarks made at the time of Prometheus that what you see in ALIEN is a small tributary of a much bigger story, so this is a story the creature comes into not a story about the creature.    

It seems obvious the franchise is vaulted until Disney figures out how to monetize its new property. It feels like a dog in the manger attitude- the property is theirs, they don't know what to do with it or might not even care now, but they sure won't let any other people have a crack at it.

I would love to read this if it still available, it sounds like an awesome concept

I am going to be a bit Awkward here as i know this is just for Fun... but i guess i have to keep with the SYNOPSIS

"Following the events of Alien Covenant Weyland-Yutani received a priority transmission from the USCSS Covenant claiming to be David on route to Origae-6."

Right so we take it this is SET after Alien Covenant so for me i will RULE-OUT the Covenant Crew!

Its a case of do they send in a Ship where the Crew know about the Advent... or do they send in a bunch of Fall Guys?

I am going to ASSUME that ALIEN and on-wards have NOT happened at this point.... and the Covenant is DUE to Origae-6 as intended and thus will arrive in the Year  2112.

But to NOT spoil the FUN i think from here its assemble a Team of ONE per Movie and to assume these Selected Crew Members are at the AGE they were in the Movies they appeared in... but at this AGE in the year 2108-2110

So here we go...

Alien) I would go with Parker as a Engineer (not the Bald 8ft Kind) Kane as (Medical/Science Officer), Ash (Corporate Representative)

Aliens). I would go with Ferro (Pilot), Sergeant Apone, (Military Team Leader),  Corporal Hicks (Military Team 3rd in Command), Private Frost, Vasquez (Military Team) Burke (WY Representative)

Alien 3). Clemens (Medical), Andrews (Ship Vice Captain), Dillon (Military Team), Morse (Ships Admin), Gillas (Science Assistant), Dr Matshuita (Science Surgeon)

Alien Resurrection). Elgyn (Pilot/Captain), Hillard (Pilot) Dr. Wren (Science Team Leader), Dr. Gediman (Biologist), Dr. Williamson (Science Team), Johner (Military Team 2nd Command), Vriess (Mechanic) Christie (General Ship Assistant), Distephano (Military Team)

Prometheus).  David (as in his AI uploaded to Walter at some point).

Alien Covenant). Walter as they would take a Synthetic

Likely have a FEW more members of Crew such as 1-2 more Scientist and additional Medical Team Member

The Mission would be to arrive in Hiding Near by Orogae-6 and wait for the Covenant to Arrive and begin to Carry Out what ever David would intend next.

They would attempt to place some Crew on the Covenant while David is on the Surface and then send another Team down to Capture David....

Scientific Curiosity, Corporate Greed and a David Doppelganger would lead to PROBLEMS for the Crew.

Pilots/Captain

Elgyn (Captain), Ferro, Hillard

General Ship Duties

Andrews (Warrant Officer) Morse, Dillon*, Christie* (Security)

Engineering/Mechanic

Parker, Vriess

Medical Team

Clemens, Kane, Gillas

Science Team

Dr. Wren, Dr Matshuita, Dr. Gediman, Dr. Williamson

Corporate Representatives

Burke, Ash

Military/Security

Apone (Sergeant), Johner (Luetenant),Hicks (Corperal), Frost, Vasquez, Distephano

Synthetic

Walter

I think that kind of SUCKS!

I do WORRY will attempt to Monopolize the Franchises it Obtained from FOX, if it produces more Movies and TV Series on say Alien and Predator and then LIMITS these to ONLY be watched via Disney Streaming Services that would SUCK!

I am still Very Concerned about the Franchise under the CONTROL of those at Disney!  I wonder what kind/style of Content and Movies they would WANT to release in Future in Context to ALIEN.

I dont think they would want to EXPLORE stuff like how RS had intended with Prometheus 2, and the Back-Lash over Alien Covenant i would NOT be surprised we got some kind of Re-boot Prequels...  Queens and Ripley links etc.

I would NOT be surprised if the Franchise goes into a VAULT!

So they can then REMAKE the Entire Franchise... with maybe a Ripley Cast by someone else?   And to REVOLVE around Xenomorphs and Queens..

If they then Re-Make the Space Jockey maybe we would get some 15ft

Right... i never intended this to be a Derelict/Cargo Hold Debate, but i can expand on this and FIT it to the OT.

My previous Post and another prior where i Calculate the Derelict would have to be between 1.75-2.0 X Height (2.0-2.5 X Width) to FIT the Pilot Chamber and Cargo Hold.....   So it 100% would NOT FIT as shown.

This leaves us with 4 OPTIONS..

1) Purely a Oversight, that we have to Accept, maybe we just have to Accept the External Shot where the Crew Enter the Derelict.. is NOT to the Correct Scale and the Ship Externally is Larger.

2) The Space Jockey Race have a Technology like Dr Who with the TARDIS where the Internal Dimensions are Larger than the External... or that when anything Enters the Ship they are SHRUNK....

3) Separate Underground Cargo Hold that the Ship would DOCK with.  The SHIP however looks like it is Perched in a Fashion that looks ODD to be Docked.. 

This could be explained as the Ship had Attempted to Disconnect and so became either somewhat LOOSE but could not TAKE OFF (Pilot Chest Busted) or it had started to TAKE OFF but then Crashed Right back on top of the Cargo Hold (Pilot Chest Busted)

A Prequel Re-boot or Visit to the Derelict could indicate as such as OPTION 3...

However.... what i had mentioned a FEW times in the past is...

4) Separate Detachable Cargo Hold..... bare with me on this.. so OK do we accept the Cargo Hold was designed to Contain/Transport the Eggs? 

i) If thats so then in Context to it being PART of the Ship, then HOW do they Deploy the Bio-Weapon?  Drop the Eggs from ABOVE?  Can the Eggs Survive the Impact? 

Does the Ship LAND on the Surface and then HOW do the Eggs Get Deployed?  Seems Rather Risky unless there is some Automated Process.... 

Is this a Suicide Mission, the Ship Lands and its Intention is to Remain until all the Eggs have Infected the World.. (Where does the Space Jockey Stay?).

ii) If we have a Separate Underground Egg Cargo Hold then what was the Purpose of the Derelict?  Had it been Carrying something that is Transported from somewhere on the Ship to the Underground Cargo Hold?  Or was it attempting to Collect some Eggs and store them in some place on the Derelict?

Again this is Risky... where does the Ship Store the Eggs it obtains from the Cargo Hold?  In some other Areas of the Derelict like the ARM Sections?  But then HOW are they then Deployed?

BOTH those Issues and the SIZE would not matter in the Case of a Separate Detachable Cargo Hold!

I had used these Images i did before when discussing this..

Here i have drawn a Diagram to show what i mean.

So the Cargo Hold is Separate and Attaches to the Underside of the Derelict... where it can be Released/Detached and Dropped to a Worlds Surface (Maybe it has a Separate Propulsion/Landing System).

Once Deployed Parts of the Cargo Section will OPEN and would leave the Eggs Open (somewhat) and the Blue Myst is Disabled.. (Maybe there is another System that would cause the Eggs to OPEN and Unleash the Face Huggers?).

So Imagine Something like this...

ONCE all the Eggs have been Emptied.... a Beacon could GO OFF and the Doors Shut Back up and then the Derelict can come back and Attach to the EMPTY/SAFE Cargo Hold and then Take it back to WHERE the Eggs are Stored for Re-Filling.

I think this takes CARE of the Size Discrepancy and also is a Pretty Robust way to Deploy the Bio-Weapon and Re-Use the Separate Cargo Compartment, and it also means the Derelict ships can Perform other Tasks than just be Egg Carrying Cargo Ships.

"The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes? "

Yes it was.. i used to to show that After a Disaster that Wipes out LIFE on Earth, especially if we lost our Ozone/Atmosphere and the Earth became like Mars, then after 10's of Thousands of Years only a Few Larger Monuments would be seen... the Smaller could be Buried under Sand etc.

The Ozymandias fits as this really about how No Matter How Great a Person/Civilization or their Accomplishments are, and what Records/Memories are left of them and Monuments Erected its to show that eventually all these would become LOST or become Ruin....  as NOTHING will LAST Forever..

I think David Re-sites those Words when he remembers back to the Bombardment, because his Coming and Actions are WHAT will spell the END of that Great Engineer Civilization where all that remains would be their Monuments and Buildings but ONCE the Engineers are GONE... then Eventually in TIME these will become Ruin.  It also in Part Applies because this is the Dawn of David's Kingdom on that World... where he would NOW set out to Create his own WORKS.

Back to the Derelict Diagram... and in Context to the OT, well Monster Zero

It was a rough Calculation of HOW BIG the Shot of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold are in Relation to the Actual Ship Dimensions.... ASSUMING the Bulkhead/Space between the Roof of the Ship and Ceiling of the Pilot Chamber, and the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Pilot Chamber and Ceiling of the Cargo Hold and Finally the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Cargo Hold and Bottom of the Ship are all about 1M in Thickness.  It then ASSUMES the Shot of the Pilot Chamber we only see about 75% of its Height, and the Egg Chamber about 90% of its Height.

If so this would mean that the DERELICT would have to be about 1.75X Taller to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

If these Bulkhead/Spaces between Floors/Bulkhead were 3M and the Pilot Chamber is shown as only 50-60% of its Actual Height, then the DERELICT would have to be at least TWICE as Tall to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

So in Context to Monster Zero... it shows that INDEED the Cargo Hold and Pilot Chamber as far as being ON-TOP of each other would NOT FIT inside the Derelict.

That could mean as far as the OT as in to Re-Explore the Derelict or Re-do the Prequels... that this Inconsistency could be COVERED by having the Cargo Hold as Separate!

But as far as Ridley Scott and the Prequels and even ALIEN then this is just a OVERSIGHT.. and the idea/intentions are the CARGO HOLD is part of the SHIP.

I had mentioned a Few Times Before what i think was the BEST SOLUTION to this Error... one that makes the MOST SENSE to me as FAR as a Ship that is intended to Transport Deadly Bio-Weapon Eggs.

I will explain this again NEXT ;)

Well this though, but because we talk about WY my team would be:

Alien: Jonnesy as the infiltration specialist and because of Xenomorph immunity.

Aliens: Ferro as a pilot, because usually they are cool and if they raced for Porsche.

Alien cubed: Clemens because he will be reincarnated as Tywin Lannister. Position who cares.

Alien Resurrection: Vriess on the position of bad-ass. How would he be on a WY mission is unimportant as it was bought out by Walmart decades before Resurrection. For some reason he reminds of Tyrion :P

Prometheus: A wise-cracking Engineer in big red suit as the leader. We could call him Engineerpool. The choise here was particularly difficult as on the ship there was a certain security guy who would become the Night King and resurrecting your dudes is tight.

AC: T as the back-up pilot and to think that Ferro is his wife. How would he be sent to intercept the Covenant when he is on it is not important. 

Alien- Parker- mechanical/engineering

Aliens- Hicks- security

Alien 3- Bishop

Resurrection- Ripley 8 {she has xeno reflexes, strength, senses etc and is promised she would only be a "consultant" :)}

Prometheus- Dr. Ford- health/medical

Covenant- Walter- science/environmental/hydroponics and fauna expert, navigation direction with MUTHUR link and over all leader.

The team's objective is to find out what happened to the Covenant. There is suspicion of foul play and a general mistrust of WY.

All experts have their own separate teams.

Walter can link Bishop's knowlege and experiences with MUTHUR and himself.

I Raptus

Wow, Tennessee as a pilot? You really like to take risks!

Now thats a perfect team.

No,my team goes like this:

Xenomorph-Engineer

Xenomorph-Leader

Xenomorph-Scientist

Xenomorph-Security

Deacon-Pilot

Neomorph-Legal

Mission:

Try to make nests in every planet.

My team is the worst team lmao.

Team leader - Dillon

Pilot - Janek

Security - Daniels

Science officer - Bishop

Legal - Call

Engineering - Parker

The official purpose of the mission - go on Origae-6 and help to Covenant crew.

The hidden purpose of the mission - explore a strange tachyon track, that suddenly appeared near the Origae-6 and clearly has an extraterrestrial origin.

My team:Parker,Ellen Ripley (Aliens),Dillon,Johner,Elizabeth (Leader),James Franco.

Mission:Survive and exterminate all Xenomorphs (Even though i want the Xenomorphs to be rare Xenomorphs)

Yeah I was going to go with a heroic roster but then I was like "Hey lets let the bad guys get what they want, Xenomorphs!"

This will take a little time and thought. Is this going to be a stand up fight or just another bug hunt?

Eh Brett since outside of being Big Chap's first victim, he is just a satellite character to Parker

Nice one Xenotaris! 

I wanted to go an evil roster too, but didnt have the conviction to see it through, so well done sir!

I've gone with the Weyland-Yutani evil ALL-STARs.

Led by Vickers, who is on a revenge mission hell-bent on restoring Peter's legacy and taking down David. After leaping sideways at the last second she survived the rolling Juggernaut and made it back to Earth. With experience on her side she was chosen to lead the Origae-6 mission. Her team's mission is to establish a foothold on the planet and lie in wait to assassinate David, recover the Covenant and secure the Xenomorph specimen.   

Her team packs muscle, brains and tenacity - Problem-solvers that aren't afraid to bend the rules, or look the other way to get the job done, even if it might be a tad...evil.

Although an interesting clash of personalities that would probably fall apart before they even left the dropship, if they managed to pull their sh#t together they could be a serious badass team!  

All-Star- Evil Roster: Ash, Burke, Bishop II, that creepy scientist dude, Peter Weyland (Expedition Leader), and David.

Mission: Capture, Evolve, and Control the Xenomorphs

Make it quick is epic.

The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes?  

Home run.  It is a perfect example of the Ozymandias concept with Earth's magnificent city of New York turns into driftwood buried by sand.  

As far as the topic in regards to changes made to the prequel layout, delivery....I tried to bring in the concept in early in the Alien: Genesis (Prometheus title replaced) to be reinforced later in Alien: Covenant.  

There are certainly better parts of Frankenstein to use in the narration.  I also thought it might be a better way to introduce Ozymandias' meaning to a larger audience opposed to David and Walter muttering the poem to each other in the dark and many asking "Who's Byron?...must be talking about Mary Shelley."

In the novel, David's madness is more clear.  If the audience was more familiar with Percy Bysshe Shelley's Ozymandias then the point that David got this wrong would me made with more clarity.  David barked out "Byron" when questioned by Walter on who wrote Ozymandias and this scene might have been better with the changes to the prequel opening.

The David Planet 4 images in the opening were not only put there, of course, to tie into the Ozymandias concept (of great, then not) but also to add a little mystery of seeing this early and not knowing the context until the next film.

Yes, I just like to write Ozymandias over and over.  

Ozymandias.  

That is very reasonable BigDave...it's a hard choice because each character fit the role.

Right on hox.  I really didn't think anyone had the guts to cut the cat.  I didn't.

Jones. He really didn't do that much acting. Still, a tough call. I'm glad the furry fella made the big time.