Comments (Page 209)

chli According to Aliens, Ash was created by  Hyperdyne Systems, not WY.

Concerning AI running W-Y Corp.

If we take "Alien: Covenant Origins" as canon, Hideo Yutani is CEO of the company. He also has a daughter and they are very much flesh and blood . . .

But the company creates synthetics (Ash e.g.).

From what little we saw of Planet 4, I think the populace might be stunned or in awe of David and Shaw. 

This is an interesting question.

The populace would have no obligation or expectation to welcome David and Shaw, but they might see the ship and think there is a reason to trust? Hard to say. We need to know the nature of the Planet 4 population. They don't appear war like but the 223 Engineers are bad ass killers if need be.

I like to think Shaw would find her answer just meeting the populace of Planet 4- for better or worse. At least she would know the truth. Better than withering away under David's weird machinations.

David would probably do his thing and find a way to manipulate the situation to suit his agenda.

Well, I'd still have Ash land on LV-223 after the Prometheus accident (however long it would take for him to get there? 6 months? 2 years?) around 2095.

It would be Ash 1 or whatever version before the upgrade/ rebuild.( He could pass all his memories to his 'brothers'? Download/upload?)

He is unable to solve the language of the Engineers and is unable to locate David.

The Deacon(fully grown)prevents him form gathering samples and hanging around....So he leaves to bring back help. Some space marines?

I think there is zero chance they would be welcomed.....I think the Engineers know all about humanity.

The David abomination would be torn limb from limb and then ejected into the nearest star.

Shaw? Probably sacrificed.

There would most certainly be an inquiry and then Earth wiped clean.

Can't have aliens stealing spacecraft.

Earth and humanity is a threat.

BigDave

I agree with your calculations about the size of the Engineer.

But I just watched the part of Prometheus where the Engineer sits down in the pilot chair. There are only two things which are attached to him: the helmet and "the ribcage" (which might be some kind of safety belt, perhaps?).

So, there is no "fusion" of the Engineer and the seat. It's more like when a driver of a fast car in a race puts on a helmet and fastens the safety belt.

I think to Summarize what the OT was intending as far as the NOVEL, then its likely to Cast Doubt on these things.

*Cast Doubt the Space Jockey Suit would contain a Synthetic.

*Indicate the Space Jockey Suit was more Organic.

*Indicate the Derelict had been on LV-426 for a Long Period of Time.

*To Cast Doubt that our 8ft Engineers could-not be in the 15-16ft Space Jockey Suit.

As Ignortantguy had pointed out, this does-not mean it rules out David as the Creator or that the Derelict is a Ancient Event.  If we take the NOVEL as Canon, then it does support what people would have seen if they saw just ALIEN, which looking at Prometheus has some Conflicting Issues. (Ship and Pilot).

As its stands the Novel lends some Weight to dispute the *Bullet Points i had made above.  However.... its to say if this would be Considered Canon by the Time we CONCLUDE the Prequels.

Its then a Case of IF the Prequels Conclude leading Chronologically to the Derelict Event... in which case its do they have a GOOD Explanation to the Following or are we just to accept them as Oversights!

*WHY does the Ship/Pilot look so Degraded especially the Pilot and Chair, if its NOT been there for a VERY LONG time then WHY does it have that look?

*WHY are there some Aesthetic Differences between the Derelict and Juggernaut, likely they are Different Ships but would we get a indication of WHAT kind of Age Difference there is between the Technologies/Construction.

*The Space Jockey appears to be ALMOST Double the Size of our Engineers can this be explained by them simply GROWING out of the Chair?

So its a case of DO they answer those, in a Clever Way that is Plausible or Simply not give much Interest and we are left with Inconsistencies we have to Consider as Oversights?

On a FINAL Note.... the Prequels have YET to Conclude and so things could be Changed... the Biggest Problem then would be IF they suggest the Derelict is Ancient.... then do they explain HOW it was that David created something so similar by Coincidence?

Regarding the Xenomorph its not Clear about how long they Live for, it had been Suggested they had a Limited Life Span before, but then also Ridley Scott had suggested they can Regenerate.    In context to a AI then if AI became Sentient they could be interested in the Body of the Xenomorph to upload their AI too, if that was Possible.   But then a AI could go about trying to Build their own more Superior Synthetic Body/Shell instead.

In context to this Topic which is to Suggest a Alternative Path to have gone after Prometheus (Re-boot Alien Covenant) then indeed as a Sequel to Prometheus we could have got a Mission to LV-223 set some 5-20 Years after the events of Prometheus as this Topic is a look at what happens after Prometheus, then it is to Speculate things after and so that Alien Covenant  had NOT happened.

So its not in anyway a FACT/CANON kind of Topic but a Re-Writing of History as a Alternative.

So in that Context then Special Order 937 would have came about likely from another Mission to LV-223, its a case of WHEN would this had happened.

And so as FAR as ASH goes, i would DOUBT that he would be involved in any Mission unless it was at least 15 years after Prometheus maybe more..  ASH was a Hyperdyne Systems Synthetic, and its likely his Model was NOT around at the time of the Walter Models.  We dont have a Date for when ASH would have been Active.  I would certainly Speculate after 2110

So for ASH to had been involved on LV-223/426 prior to ALIEN i would assume the Time-Line would have to be after 2115 so bringing ASH into the Story of a Prequel would FIT with this Topic Better.

Alien: Back to the Future PT4 was offering us a chance to think of a Prequel set before ALIEN but likely set after the Events of the Prequels (surround David)  so a Time-Line of say between 2112-2122 and so that would be a Period more suited to involving ASH.

But Fan Fiction aside... the Reality of Special Order 937 would likely come about after what ever the Company do regarding David's Advent Message.

So Events leading to what becomes Special Order 937 would likely happen after the year 2110 and also maybe would be covered in One of the Next TWO Prequels had they been Given the Green Light. 

The Avenue of Special Order 937 would be likely in response to NOT being able to Obtain anything from Planet 4, Origae-6 and LV-223 but then discovering that there is something to be obtained on LV-426 and so i would Speculate that Special Order 937 is issued in result of Events certainly between 2118-2122 but  Special Order 937 likely had been issued NOT that Long before the Events of ALIEN.

I wonder if Ash, finding the tombs/Juggernaut/Deacon before David, would be able to do anything with the knowledge?

Is Ash smart enough(programmed) to read the Engineer language, open tomb doors, fly alien spacecraft?

Ash would probably just do some dissection and make a report.

'A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY..... the Human Cost maters not as Humans are In-superiorand Expendable.'

I agree. AI are stuck in their digital bodies...They are probably very interested in becoming bio-mechanical and all this creation stuff is attractive. 

Humans? Lets make it a weapon! lol! (They have plenty of weapons) ...Maybe the Xeno can live for a very long time or heal itself?..I could see the company trying to sequence the DNA to help themselves live longer.

Thats Absurd!!!!!

Not really ;)

I do suspect some kind of Twist was Planned to Reveal that by the Time of ALIEN the Company is being RAN by AI and Mankind are None-the-Wiser...

Maybe some Humans are in the Know, but they do so as to Benefit themselves,  maybe the AI has given them a Covenant, a agreement something for their Greedy Hands to Benefit from.

If the Plot Remains the Same that David is the Creator, then it would give more Reason for WHY it is that ASH really Admired the Xenomorph.  It was a Creation by one of his Forefathers so to Speak.

A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY..... the Human Cost maters not as Humans are In-superior and Expendable.

This Plot was what i was indicating with my Prometheus 2 i was working on in 2013, which i Lost and i Abandoned..  it would have gone the Path to show that Weylands AI Soul is running the Show!

Revelation that he had Created and Perfected David as a Experiment to Create the Ideal Vessel/Shell for a AI Soul to be Uploaded to...

While he thought he Perfected that.... he Sadly could NOT manage a way to Upload a Human Soul, Emotions, Memories and Experiences into  AI that would then REMAIN Stable......   Each Attempt would Fail as the AI Soul becomes Crazy, Delusional and then just completely Crashes/Breaks down.

Programing a Synthetic to have Human like Emotions is ONE thing, and this Potentially has Pitfalls (which we see with David in Alien Covenant) but to actually Transfer and Maintain a Human Soul into a AI is FAR more Unstable.

This was Project Rook which Weyland had discussed with David while playing CHESS in a Flash Back...

Ultimately this NEVER worked out... so Weylands attempts to CHEAT DEATH had Failed and THUS in Desperation he Turned to Dr Shaw and Holloways chasing GODS!

The END of my Prometheus 2 would have shown that Project Rook gets Activated as Vickers Last Action before she Dies... well not really Dies... do Synthetics Die?  But that was another Twist!

Well the END would be shown that Project Rook goes Live... (Weylands AI Soul)... but as with Prometheus having TWO Endings... (Dr Shaws SOS and then the Deacon).  The Very Last Scene was a SHOT of a Juggernaut arriving at a Solar System and seeing a Large Earth-like Planet in the Distance... FADE to Credits.

This would have set up Prometheus 3 which well, i had difficulty in Finishing as to Explore the Engineers, what else they Create and HOW they would react to David and Dr Shaw is NOT something easy.

I can only imagine that Paglen and Green kept finding the same Problems.. with their Countless Drafts.

Chili

'he did what the company wanted.'

My view: Synths and A.I. are working for themselves....Humans are busy with their petty lives....worried about their golf game, stock market and what their are having for dinner.

SO 937 is probably A.I. created.

Regarding the Ship.....

HR Giger saw the Ship as LIVING.... he even felt the SHIP would Produce the Eggs.

The Derelict did look like it was a Part Organic Vessel and so WHY-NOT.. as far as it being LIVING.

The Juggernauts dont look as Organic/Living and so that can lead us to Speculate the Engineers had Re-Engineered/Stolen their Aesthetic/Technology from some Place/Some One else...

I will add to CONCLUDE...

If they are going to SHOW us that the Derelict/Juggernaut are Very Similar and a Engineer (God Forbid anyone Smaller) was to get into the Pilot Chair before the Ship/Pilot eventually END UP on LV-426

Then the Above is the kind of OVERSIGHT we are supposed to Accept, especially if 18 years before ALIEN there is NOTHING on LV-426.

So from that Image here are the KEY things.

*The Engineer would be Smaller than the Space Jockey (using the Wider Shots) the Engineer would have to be as Big as the One i placed at the FAR Left of the One Image.

*A explanation would be needed for the Color Difference, and WHY the Space Jockey suit looked degraded like Bone and not the Dark Grey Color.

Slight Atheistic Differences Internally and Externally could be Addressed by showing us a Different Variant of Juggernaut.  Particularly Internal

So we would have to Conclude depending on what SHOT they would want as Reference for the Space Jockey (Wide Shot of 21ft Space Jockey or Close Shot of 15ft Space Jockey). 

While it could be a Space Suit... it Certainly looks like the Pilot has been there for a LONG LONG TIME and the Space Jockey is also about Twice the Size of a Engineer (or more).

EDIT:

Its hard to work out the Size using Humans next to the SET as the Angle and Distance does  mean you have NO accurate Reference Point.

There are 3 Shots that Provide the Best Basis, One with a Space Jockey thats Dead on its Side as shown in the Concept work... with TWO members of Production right by the Side...   Using this i worked out the Space Jockey would be about 14.5ft Tall.

The other TWO have Production Members UP-CLOSE actually like Face to Face near enough with the Space Jockey and NOT the Chair... using these i Estimate the Space Jockey to be 13-14ft.

All things Considered its likely the Space Jockey was Considered to be about 15ft Tall, which is what Alien Engineers went with...

Sadly on Screen we never ENDED UP with 15ft Engineers as Initially Intended.

That is a Good Point, there did appear to be a Bleached Bone Color to most of the Space Jockey, even Part of the Chair or we assume Chair.  Only the Base and the Torrent/Telescope and a few of the Cables/Pipes at the Back of the Chair are NOT that Bone Color,  the Part of the Bottom of the Chair seems to start of a Darker Brown and Gradually gets Lighter until its the Bone Color.

Does that mean they are Bone?   Nope, does it mean they had Faded/Decayed to the Same Process as the Space Jockey, possibly.....

When we look at HR Gigers Concept we see the Space Jockey and most of the Chair is Colored the same, the Base and Turret/Telescope a different Color.

Was they intended to be the Same Color? (Pilot and Chair) with the Base and Turret/Telescope being different and NOT in anyway way a Merger of Organic and Non-Organic?

Is it intended to show us a Decomposing/Fading of the Color as a indication that the Space Jockey has been there for a VERY LONG time?

Would this imply that Part of the Chair that Fuses to the Space Jockey Suit somehow Share the Same Construction/Material and thus are Bio-Mechanical?

In Prometheus we see the Chair and Turret/Telescope have a Uniform Color,  that fits with the Interior Color of the Room (unlike in ALIEN).

Again this is a Oversight... of sorts... Ridley Scott explained the Differences are the Derelict is NOT in Brand New Condition and is a Derelict, and the Juggernauts are in Pristine Condition.

If we accept the Space Jockey/Chair looked similar at ONE Time, then they have to had thought of WHY it looks so Degraded... a Good Explanation would be that the Derelict is a Much Older Version and has been on LV-426 for not just a FEW Thousand Years but a VERY VERY LONG time... maybe 35'000+ Years?

Regarding HOW the Space Jockey/Chair can look different and Degraded?  If they are Organic to a Degree, they have a like Dolphin/Shark Texture/Feel like Rubber, which would feel like how a Cactus is.

Maybe they are more like a Cactus as far as Organic, and so the Image above shows what a LIVE and DEAD one look like (Cactus) and thats about the BEST Explanation i can come up with.

HR Giger did Suggest the Derelict is maybe Grown and like a Plant.... so maybe thats NOT a Bad Explanation i have given?

Certainly help Support a Organic Suit and Chair, that can Fuse with Mechanical Components.  Everyone else is Entitled to their own Opinion on the Matter though ;)

If for a moment you consider what i have put... we still have to explain WHAT could cause the Decay of the Suit/Chair... what Event could cause that? What Environment.

Because without trying to Figure that out, the Most Logical Explanation is they have been on LV-223 for a LONG TIME, and those Dead Engineer Suits that have been on LV-223 for over 2000 years are NO-WHERE near showing us the Same signs of Degradation.

If this means we can ASSUME the Derelict has been on LV-223 for Many Tens of Thousands of Years or FAR longer... then this does OFFER a potential Twist to LV-223 where we could be lead to Speculate the Derelict was there before that Outpost or that the Eggs were taken from the Derelict to Experiment on within those Complexes.

However... thats NOT the case with the New Direction, but then HOW would they explain the Degradation of the Space Jockey and Chair, never mind the Size Difference?

Certainly they would have a HARD time Convincing us the Derelict has only been there for up to 17.5 years.

I would think its likely that David more than likely would have became a Antagonist if we got a Prometheus 2 i think that there would have been something that would have made his Wires Crossed, be it the Engineers saw him as Worthless and Admired Dr Shaw so he becomes Rejected/Insignificant again, and Jelous.

Certainly he would still want to become the God/King and use the Engineers Technology for his own Gain!

To be fair with a Sequel and its maybe WHY they had such a HARD TIME in getting a Story...  Its how do they explore a Paradise... if David and Dr Shaw land and leave the Comfort/Protection of the Ship?

Its the Number of Engineers, what they Knew about our Creation and then our Intended Destruction and how they would React with Dr Shaw and David regardless that makes for a Story thats more TRICKY to get Right.  But not Impossible to come up with something. (just it could go MANY ways and its then Which Idea to Settle on) this is WHY i abandoned my Prometheus 3 idea (Prometheus 2 was set mainly in our Solar System with NO Engineers etc).

So ALL a second Movie that went to LV-223 would have done was to FIX some of the Things and give some Fans a Prequel with more Answers and Monsters than Prometheus gave... in effect a bit of a Alien Engineers like Flick... but based from a Recovery/Investigation Mission.

So giving Fans this KIND of Movie which would be a Prequel to ALIEN but in NO-WAY is a Prequel to the Space Jockey Event... we just get more Clues/Answers,  then this SHOULD please the fans a bit who was Disappointed with Prometheus and NOT interested in David and Dr Shaw wanting to meet more Engineers for Answers in a Franchise that would STEER AWAY from Alien and the Xenomorph.

So those Fans get their FIX and more Answers..

Then a Direct Prometheus Sequel that follows David and Dr Shaw could have been made to explore something else... a Engineers/Space Jockey Spin off Franchise that has NOTHING to do with ALIEN.

In Hindsight going for TWO movies as Such...

Would have KEPT the Space Jockey Event as Ancient, maybe could have kept it a bit of Mystery or certainly drives us down a certain Path of Speculation.  Also could have gave more Clues or Full Answers to the Xenomorph and its Ancient Connection to LV-223 and also at LEAST gave Fans some similar MONSTERS on the Attack.

We THUS would not have ended up with Alien Covenant! 

We would also had seen more of Dr Shaw and the Engineers and opened up a Endless Potential to where to go NEXT!

What of the Conflict with the Franchise?

As i mentioned a while back on in the TOPIC, who is to say the Place that David and Dr Shaw would go would be WITHIN the Reach of Earths Ships?

Who is to say that they DONT arrive until after the Events of ALIENS or even Alien Resurrection?

Why they could even had gone to ANOTHER Galaxy for Answers.

But Alas it seems the Writers or those who GIVE the YES/NO could not think about such things..

To be honest, to me, the Space Jockey looks just as it did to Dallas (and others): like a fossil which has been dead a long time (even if a petrified or desiccated skeleton might be more correct).

I wonder, those of you who are in favour of a suit and a mask which are organic in nature, do you see them as part of a living, organic ship (the Derelict). If the ship is grown (like a vegetable) and like a living organism, the suit and mask are as well?

Why then do the suit and mask look dead (yellowish) and merged with the dead body inside (so you can't tell them apart)?

The cockpit and the rest of the ship has a more bluish tone, more humid and looks more "alive".

The Space Jockey was referred to as the PILOT, that certainly was its JOB , what Prometheus had indicated to us (IF we assume the Space Jockey and Engineers have same Function) is that Prometheus showed us that the Engineers use their Suits for MORE than just a Pilot Suit.  They did-not need them on the Surface of LV-223, the  Complex on LV-223 and Juggernaught had a Enviroment that could Support Life, well breathable to Humans.

So the Suit being NEEDED to Breath seems Unlikely, unless to Conserve Resources ONCE they set a Destination the Turn-Off their Life-Support and so use the Suit to Breath?

The other use we see in Prometheus is some kind of Bio-Hazzard Suit, maybe to Protect them from their Bio-Weapons, but Certainly so they DONT effect their Bio-Weapons/Experiments.

I can see the Point your trying to Raise with David... its actually a Very Good Point... something thats Obviously a Plot Convenience

David does-not Breath so he would NOT need a Suit.

We dont see him getting into any Suit... could it connect to a Synthetic?

We see the Space Jockey Suit (Pilot Chair one) connects the Pilot to the Chair, for some Purpose.

Now the ALIEN Prop differs a little as far as HOW the Head/Helmet is attached to the Chair, the Concept does show what is the Space Jockey Head Connected, but we dont get to see this as clear (lack Wires etc) in ALIEN.  It looks connected via the Arms in both though.

In Prometheus we got the Revelation that the Helmet is Permanently Connected/Fused with the Chair and it encases around the Pilot.

The point i am trying to raise is WHAT is the purpose of this Connection, does it connect to the Pilots Brain, does it Function as some kind of Life Support System?

The End of Prometheus, more so The Crossing would indicate the Ship can be Controlled without maybe having to be Connected to the Chair....

If the Suit Provides some Electrical Connection a Mind/Data Transfer-link to the Pilot, then HOW does this work with a Synthetic?  Can a Suit Connect and Interact with a Synthetic as it does a Engineer?

Does it merely provide Life Support which David would NOT need and so he simply would-not need to use the Suit?

We can only Speculate..

Prometheus also introduces us to the Engineer Ships having more than a Pilot, it could be the Pilot Chair is needed to get the Ship Up. and then they go into Cryo-sleep..... but how does David do this in TWO Parts? (Head/Body)

The Derelict is NOT exactly the same though, it lacks any signs of other Crew and Cryo-Pods but they could be located in other places on that Model of Ship.

some Speculated that as of ALIEN the Pilot is Permanently Fused with the Chair this is the Impression that some had, which included James Cameron..  However HOW would the Pilot had got Infected?  The only way if they was Fused with the Chair for Life would be a Face Hugger made it to the Pilot Room, but how did it then Infect the Pilot? (Easy if this is a Skeleton) but thats not the case.

This does-not matter as the idea is that the PILOT can Leave the Chair and they merely become Fused with it when they Sit/Activate it... but can Disconnect/Leave the Chair.

So its likely that either David could connect to the Suit, or that the Suits connection to the Chair is NOT required for the Control of the Ship but for other Purposes.

BigDave

A return to LV-223 after Prometheus might have done the trick. But if, in the next film, we follow David and Shaw, wouldn't the problems be the same? Wouldn't David develop to a vengeful demon anyway?

MonsterZero

As I see it, Ash followed Special Order 937, that is, he did what the company wanted. Had he been on LV-223 (before he becomes the science officer on the Nostromo), the company would already have the pathogen and they probably wouldn't need to search for the xenomorph.

So what is the Space Jockeys 'job'?

It's not the pilot(David was able to fly a Juggernaut)..

What is canon?

Now you're talking.

"There is a way out: the Space Jockey is not an Engineer"

And TIP of the Ice Berg!

Certainly ;)

I think that is a way to FIX things, the Space Jockey as a 13-16ft Species who are either Bio-Mechanical in Nature like how the Xenomorph appears and Sil from Species.

Or a Not-So Human looking Species under the Suit, we could even have a None Human Bio-Mechanical Species under the Suit.

Certainly we could Reveal that this Species had either Created the Engineers for a Purpose, they maybe Rebelled and Continued to use the Technology the Space Jockey Race had Created/Engineered for the Engineers to use.

Or the Engineers encountered the Space Jockey and had Stolen/Reverse Engineered their Technology.

So i think we need another LAYER to that Cake, and one which gets back to being more ALIENY and HP Lovecraftian.

HR Giger has a Wealth of Art that could be Influence for for a New Species.

I certainly can see where you are coming from, the Space Jockey Scene was Enigmatic, Awe Inspiring the Scale especially when the Crew entered the Pilot Chamber.....

The Scale seemed more Awe Inspiring in the First Shots, the Space Jockey would have been in the 20-22ft Ball Park.  Compared to the Prop would have made it a 14-15ft Being.

When doing any Sequel/Prequel that would either Answer the Space Jockey Mystery or have us be introduced to their Species would be something that would be more EXPENSIVE to portray as a 20ft+ Species.

It certainly is possible nowadays compared to in the 80's/90's but it would be much Easier with a 15ft Space Jockey... If there is to be a LIVE one that interacts with Humans.

When working on the Prequels they introduced the Space Jockey as the Engineers Giant Bald Humanoids who stood 15ft Tall.... if they had pulled off this Scale on Screen with the use of Various Effects like say Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings had used, then i DONT think the Problems would have been as bad... (regarding the Space Jockey).

Some are Disappointed that we got Bald Humanoids...

But this is the Concept that HR Giger had gone for in 1978..

The Space Jockey had Changed over the Years....

*Started off as a Alien Skeleton of a Species who had attempted to take some Eggs/Spores back to the Ship for Study.

*Evolved to a more Humanoid looking Skeleton.

*Then RS did Story Boards that had been inspired by one of HR Gigers Works.

*HR Giger then came in to Redesign this to the Space Jockey we got in the above image...  looking like some kind of Space Suit at this point.

*Production began and the Space Jockey head came across more Organic/Skeletal, which combined with the Ribcage lead to Speculate it was a Skeleton (Dallas Fossil Comment seemed a confirmation).

BUT then we had Ridley Scott say a long while back it was a SPACE SUIT, and when work began on the Prequels this was the Idea they ran with...

But the Problem was our 15ft Humanoid Space Suited Space Jockeys got down sized to 8ft the Illusion intended to be 9-10ft but they FAILED just as much as the intention of a 26ft Space Jockey in ALIEN.

A Number of Fans are NOT pleased with the Space Jockey, certainly the Revelation does-not add up to the Expectation.

*Some thought it should be a SKELETON of some Tapir looking Alien Species or Elephantine.

*Some Fans dont-mind it being a Space Suit but dont like the Revelation of the Wearer being a Bald Human looking Race.

*Most Fans seem to Feel that the SCALE is off and that the True Space Jockey should have been some True Giant of at least 15ft in Size.

Its a case of OVERSIGHT and IF they would ever consider introducing the Space Jockey from ALIEN as different to a 8ft Humanoid in a Space Suit.

For me the SCALE is the issue i have...

Introduce other Race connected to the Engineers that can be as Human Looking but make them about 12ft and for me that would do...

Other than that, i would welcome the Occupants inside the SUIT to be much Less Human Looking.... OR the Space Jockey is a Bio-Mechanical Being like the Xenomorph was.

But NO to any Skeleton!

Thanks for the message.  I plan on going to see this!  I'm so excited!!!

LOL!

I can forgive the close-up mismatch for the reason that - in that shot - there's no general impression of the overall scale of the creature. Likewise, the dropping of the original giant.

The real problem, one that's tricky to surmount, is the mismatch between Prometheus reality and the Alien distant shot.

There is a way out: the Space Jockey is not an Engineer.

I was always very disappointed that the utterly alien Space Jockey was ostensibly a human in a suit. Giger's original vision was so much better than that.

If I had my way with the future direction of the story...

Space Jockeys (and variants thereof) are a completely different and ancient species. They are to the Engineers as Engineers are to us. The Engineers hijacked their technology, including the ability to grow spaceships and engineer life. Being a religious bunch, they revere the Space Jockeys and even go so far as to imitate them, right down to the elephant masks they wear. Of course, the Engineers are much smaller, and they don't grow out of a pilot's chair in the same way that the Space Jockey does. They don't have the very obvious creeping growths over their arms that blend with the seat, for example.

More importantly, this is a more interesting story line! Imagine if Space Jockeys are the tip of the iceberg, and they have different castes and forms themselves. Endless possibilities for truly alien and shocking manifestations. Do you remember the very first time you saw the Space Jockey in his chamber? How utterly surreal and scary that was. We need more truly alien concepts to arise in the franchise.

Surely, there would be an investigation . . .

Probably...I could see them sending an unmanned probe OR A synthetic to check the crash, in a really small cheap vessel....or have a ship in the area(to like Alien!!)

Opening credits scene: Razor storms and tombs...Dark and foreboding... 

Opening scene: A small spacecraft landing on LV-223 A synth exits and starts it's survey.....

This android lies completely...reports back false data. Tells Weyland Corp nothing. Only about the misfortune of the crew and the faulty landing node ...Nothing about the tombs.

It's name is Ash.

Certainly HOX...

That was indeed the Intention... but this was UNDONE.. by Ridely Scotts approach to Shooting and Scale...

Where close up we see the Space Jockey Mysteriously Shrunk by 1/3rd.

Same Problems happened with Prometheus.. the Intention at Shooting was a 10ft Race... some Scenes showed us that Actually we have a 8ft Race.

The Intention was a 26ft Space Jockey but in Reality what we got in ALIEN was a 22ft Giant that then appeared to be 15ft at Close Up.

Ridley Scott should have used ANOTHER Prop for the Close up that was 33% Larger.... but this would have been beyond Budget.

The Difference is considered a OVERSIGHT... we simply where not to be paying too much attention.

Upon IF/WHEN they would ever introduce the Space Jockey Race or go back to the Derelict again, then they would have to Choose, do we go for a 22ft Race or a 15ft.

When they began the Prequels they decided to go for a 15ft and so actual Prop Size... so the Smaller Children in suits shot was considered a Oversight.

This got Revised down to 12ft in Later Drafts, then intended as 10ft for Shooting but again another Mistake of Scale and we ended up with 8ft Engineers (Suited).

Again RS should have used LOTR/Hobbit Special Effects and Camera Trickery.

By the Time we get to the Space Jockey Event at the Rate of being 2-3 more Movies away.... then we may see Warwick Davies eventually playing the Space Jockey ;)

Here is roughly how the Space Jockey size has changed.

"About the complexes, perhaps there are eggs instead of pathogen in one of them? But that would rule out David as the creator . . ."

It seems they Certainly had Experimented with Various Organisms that relate to the Xenomorph, we cant rule out them Storing Eggs, or even that Eggs was the Basis for the Experiments.

Going back to LV-223 especially Directly after Prometheus would have allowed for the connections and horrors to be found to have many a Option on HOW to explore them.

Why in HINDSIGHT... i feel in Reaction to the Fans... they should have done a Prometheus Sequel that went back to LV-223 that was more like a Alien Engineers...  giving more Clues, and introducing some Alien Creatures that Attack the Humans...   and then we could CLOSE the DOOR to ALIEN.

Then after that they could have Released a Direct Prometheus Sequel that would go where David and Dr Shaw are going and take us to a FAR FAR away place that does-not have to Worry about what Alien Fans want/expect.

@Ignorantguy

I see what you mean, i Understand that it was Weyland Who Created David, but what i meant was in General the Pursuit of Science for Mankind could become a Hubris, its Unlikely that Peter Weyland was the only Human and his Company the only one that was trying to Further AI and Robotics, it was Weyland who had became a Pioneer with David though.  I would however think that Weyland was maybe NOT doing all of this for the Best for Mankind, i suspect some Personal Gain was his Motive... thats just a Opinion though.

"PS. I never said that David should be a good robot"

I am sorry if you thought i was implying that, i was not pointing it out as such (in response to you),it was just that i was saying that its LIKELY the Prequels would not have gave us a Story about David becoming a Good Robot with the Best Intentions for Mankind...  i feel it would have been about him trying to become a God/King as he would have inherited a Megalomaniac Personality from his Father.

Regarding Dr Shaw, she did show David kindness, her Downfall was her Stubbornness in her Faith and being Naive.   She surely would have known their was a Chance that she would END UP being Dead anyway... but her Faith would have gave her some Comfort that a BETTER place awaited her.  (Unless she got some Faith Shattering Revelations).

She had put a lot of Trust in David... but Ultimately she had NO Alternative... she would have had to WAIT for a Rescue Mission, where she would have under 2 years so Unless Technology Improves she would be Dead before any arrive.

Or she would have to TRUST that Robot... even if she wanted to go back to Earth.... Once David was back in ONE piece she is at his Mercy/Intentions.

But she had a BIGGER objective... she wanted Answers from those Engineers, even if the THEY would NEVER give her any and KILL her... she would know thats the Risk she would take... she would also know that before she could even GET to the Engineers, she would have to Rely on David being Completely Honest and that he would KEEP his side of the Bargain..

But she rather do that, than just SIT on LV-223, which if she did there is a Good Chance the Deacon could have got to her.

Its Tragic in the End for her... as it seemed it was NOT a case of being Naive, as she Genuinely thought she had WON over David, that he was actually only the way he was due to his Treatment by others, and so she felt that he actually would NOT harm her...

I think all along there are clear seeds that once FREE you really could NOT be Trusting David... he Cares only for himself.

The answer to why the W-Y Corp wasn’t interested in finding out what happened to Sir Peter Weyland might be that the Weyland Corp was taken over by the Yutani Corp (2099) with Hideo Yutani as CEO. On the other hand, for about 5 years Weyland Corp did nothing to find out . . .

About the body of Mr Weyland, the Deacon might have munched on the body. In some novels, the xenomorphs eat meat and when the food supply is gone they get into hibernation until new victims appear.

About the complexes, perhaps there are eggs instead of pathogen in one of them? But that would rule out David as the creator . . .

@BigDave, don't forget that space-suited children were used in the Space Jockey scene, not 6 feet adults. I reckon the Space Jockey is supposed to be at least 20ft long.

Thought i would Quickly try and do a Comparison, this does have a Margin of Error, it also assumes Space Jockey has same Proportions as the Engineer Suit.

Also assumes Production Worker is about 6ft

This would Indicate the Space Jockey to be about 14.5 Feet Tall, with a Margin of Error it would appear the Actual Size could be about 15ft.

I always thought the Chair was 16ft, i cant remember where but it was described as such, i know the ONE in Prometheus was 15ft as far as Concept i will work out after what it was in Reality but it seems to be about 16ft.

All in all from what i have attempted to do, would mean the Space Jockey is Approximately the same 15ft that the Engineers were Described as from the Earlier Drafts.

This was the Intention, the Trailer Sacrificial Bowl on the Alter is Scaled to make the Engineers about 15ft if we assume the same one was used by the Sacrificial Engineer Scene.

likewise the Head they Examined on the Lab Table was LARGER than the Prometheus Engineer portrayed by Ian Whyte, i will have to work it out again, but when i did it before that HEAD would have been to a 10ft Engineer Scale.

This could be used to simply explain that WHILE we have Different Sized Humans... if the Engineers are on Average 25% Taller than a Human, then indeed some Engineers could stand 10 Feet Tall.

BigDave

But that is not the conclusion, as those who are truly guilty are barely punished. Weyland would have died in a matter of days so he asked for more life as Batty and for that he was punished. How is humanity even to blame as a whole in a hyper-capitalist world where evil corporations do shitty stuff? What could they do? Shaw was punished for being kind if anything, which none of the so called gods were. Even the current Engineers are they still guilty for stuff that happened 2000 years ago (to the extreme an anti-Semite would say that current Jews are they blame for the death of Christ, which is stupid)?

PS. I never said that David should be a good robot, but I don't think that you can have a good series with a good guy without a given name (I dare you to say her name without Googles).

I think Ultimately while things had Changed from after Prometheus it was Unlikely that David would have continued to had become a Friendly Loving Robot..

The Purpose of this TOPIC would be if we could RE-DO a Prometheus Sequel and so we could IGNORE what happens in Alien Covenant like it Never Existed, hence Back to the Future as in to CHANGE.

Even when considering this i FEEL that Alien Covenant still gives us indications to a more LIKELY outcome to what David would have become..

He would have seen himself as Superior, he would only wanted to go to see these Engineers in order to see what he could GAIN that would be of Benefit to himself...

Weyland said in his Ted Talk... regarding the Future Creation of beings like David... "we are the Gods now"

The Logical Conclusion would have been David's Pursuit to become a GOD and Creator to behold the Engineers Secrets and Technology for his OWN gain.

It would not have been 100% Certain if David would have KILLED her (Dr Shaw), it would appear likely that she would have been CONCERNED and Disagree with Davids Motives and Ambition and likely that Dr Shaw would want NO PART of it..

Which i think David would not take being Turned Down, or have Dr Shaw be against his Wishes... so things LIKELY would have Turned Bad for her...

So if we got a Different Prometheus Sequel it would be likely that a Confrontation would have happened between Dr Shaw and David than any kind of Collaboration it seemed almost inevitable that David would become the Antagonist and this would NOT be too Good for Dr Shaw... this does-not mean that SHE could NOT have Escaped or Survived.  or at least attempted to Get Away from a Twisted Dr Frankenstein that David would have LIKELY had became.

I will add that indeed Ignorantguy to FIT with the Themes that appeared to be at PLAY then a Logical Conclusion could be that David becomes the Space Jockey as the Ultimate Hubris for what he had done...

The Xenomorph being Mankinds Hubris for Creating a David, and also the Engineers for Creating Mankind that lead to David...  It would therefor be Fitting that Davids Creation becomes his Ultimate Hubris too.

With a Logical Conclusion that there is NO God and NO One should PLAY God!

@chli "I think that AC had a kind of logical continuation from Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head. The doppelganger motif is always interesting and the plot was generally good. I don’t mind David dabbling in creation either (as long as he doesn’t end up as the Space Jockey)."

That is only your opinions, wishes, and what you expect from the genre. Other disagree with you. Bet let's take into the inventory what we know. Shaw was killed because the studios asked so not because was inevitable. Why, probably they thought they would make more money. It also made David more villainous in a cheap way. He does not grow any bit in Prometheus he hates humans right from the get go, but somehow is stuck on Shaw. On the commentary track Spaiths says that he sees in her and her man some kind of equals because of there smarts (not very well conveyed on Charlie). In Covenant he considers himself better than humans partly because he is Immortal, after more or less dying in Prometheus. He becomes also a rapist (yes Big Dave he sexually assault Daniels) to explain why the Xenomorph is a rape monster and to become the new main villain.

And you know what, for me the only logical way to finish this is for David to become the Space Jockey, because of genre cliches and motifs. Of course, game novelization will be put aside and contradicted, what non-MCU directors and screenwriters have time for those? 

"Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head"

This Certainly would be TRUE... before we got Alien Covenant, RS had said that Eventually Dr Shaw would put David back together again, but once she does this he would be Very Dangerous, but he was also Very Convincing.

So Ultimately once he is in ONE piece then Dr Shaw is at the Whim of WHATEVER it is that David wants, especially once she is in Cryo-Sleep then David is Free to do or Go where-ever he wants... HE would surely Care for his OWN Agenda..

But instead of Messing About on LV-223 or going to Earth with a Engineer Ship, he does indeed go to a Engineer World, The Crossing implies that David discovers more about the Engineers, their ways, which maybe could Influence the reason he Bombarded them!

The other Factor to Consider is that David sees himself as ALIVE, he would want to Survive and if he LOVED his Travel Companion then he would want to ensure that SHE also Survives.

He would NOT care much about WHAT she wanted to Find Out, the MOST Important thing would be SURVIVAL... so for that he could maybe NOT risk going down to see the Engineers as you cant GUARANTEE they would Roll Out the Red Carpet and Accept them..... never mind give them Answers.

It is likely that he FELT from the remnants of the Engineers City he could maybe Discover Answers for Dr Shaw.  He could likely then TRY and offer Dr Shaw something she could GAIN from all of this... IF he was unable to get any Answers from what remained.

I think it would have been Highly Likely Regardless of IF we never had Alien Covenant but a Prometheus 2, that David would have Destroyed the Engineers to ensure his and Dr Shaws Survival.

Then i would assume David would want to have Dr Shaw as a Companion but it would be more for his OWN needs than Dr Shaw's own Happiness if he felt that She did-not want to be his Companion or agree with what ever Plans that he has... its likely that David would TURN on her.

I think Certainly there would have at Some Point been a Mission or Investigation to inspect what had happened to the Ship and its Crew.....   The only way something would be Brushed Under the Carpet would be by someone WHO would Benefit from the Death of Peter Weyland and Miss Vickers.

The other Board Members would likely had known that Weyland does-not have Many Years left in him, so it was only a Matter of Time... so for anyone else at the Company then having Miss Vickers simply Disappear would then Open the Door to Benefit someone else.

If we consider that, then who ever would GAIN could certainly had done a Cover-Up, a Sham Investigation so they could then Take-Over or Benefit from the Company.

They may have NO Concern to what happened to Prometheus and WHO-KNOWS what Officially Weyland had told them about the Mission.  They would only be interested in the ASSETS that Mr Weyland had.

But certainly in Light of the Advent Video by David, then it would be VERY likely the Company would surely Investigate LV-223.

"I would love a return to LV-223 But I think this opens a can of worms?"

I actually think it would Provide Answers, by Virtue of LV-223 being there it is a Can of Worms... a Mission to LV-223 could Conclude with its Destruction which would then make LV-223 something that would NOT Conflict the Franchise.

"They would find the body of Sir Peter Weyland"

It depends on WHICH of the Complexes they Visit! do they go to the Life-Boat, where did Dr Shaws Warning come from etc.

This image is intended to show that the Prometheus Wreckage and Life-Boat too are before the First Temple which the Prometheus Crew Visited.  We see from the Ending that Dr Shaw is heading from Near the First Temple Complex and NOT from the Juggernaught, so she LIKELY had gone to the Wreckage or Life-Boat First.

So it would be Likely the Message was Sent from the Life-Boat so that surely would be a Place any incoming Mission would Investigate, but then they would also likely Check Out the Crashed Juggernaut.

So YES i think its Highly Likely they would Discover Mr Weyland's Body.

"Would the Deacon still be alive?"

This depends on HOW-LONG does the Deacon Live, we simply dont know, or HOW it could Procreate so its UNKNOWN if they would come Across the Deacon, given it could be Many Years after the Deacon was Born.  If the Deacon dies then what becomes of its Body?

We also dont know HOW-FAR the Deacon could Wonder Off and so its UNKNOWN where it eventually went or would be.  But i think if the Crew go into the First Temple or Crashed Ship maybe they could come across Similar by Virtue of Contact with the Pathogen... also have to Consider the Hammerpedes.

"What’s in the other pyramid mounds?"

We can only Speculate, i would assume Similar things maybe happened in those places? It seems for some Reason that Dr Shaw and David were Heading to the 2nd Complex, and we do see that David had Bombarded the Engineers on Planet 4 with a Cargo that was on the Ship they had obtained.  There appears to be more than ONE Hanger per Complex, but maybe Dr Shaw felt the First Complex was Compromised to Risk going back to...

But the other Juggernaut they obtained also has a Bio-Weapon and we could Speculate that maybe each Complex has a Variant of the Black Goo? 

Maybe each Complex has more than ONE variation inside?

I think thats a Good Point... it is a bit odd how he would say "its no a synthetic" as why would they ever consider that this ALIEN Ship would be Piloted by a Synthetic, so if they said "its not Synthetic" that would make sense, but as he said its Not A Synthetic we have to consider he meant as in NOT a Synthetic Android, but its like would they had been Expecting One?

So we have to Wonder how much had they known about the Ship etc before they arrived to come out with a comment like that?Unless when they saw the Chair and how the Space Jockey was attached by Wires, they first thought it must be some kind of Synthetic Robot, but close inspection it was more Organic and NOT a Synthetic.

But i think what it ULTIMATELY comes down to is the Author using some Dialog to Clear up some things and so they had placed that Dialog to Indicate that the Space Jockey is in NO-WAY a Synthetic Android.

A indication that its NOT going to be David, which is not the best thing to put, as it would be Good to leave it Ambiguous until the Conclusion so WHEN/IF we get a Continuation some Fans may Expect its going to be David only to then be relieved that it DOES-NOT

Looking at what you have put from the Novel i think its the Author attempting to push us towards certain things.

"The human form was huge - at least 16 feet tall"

This is a Narration of the Scene, indicating the Space Jockey is Humanoid (well Bi-Pedal) and to indicate it is HUGE, the Thing is the Space Jockey Chair was 16ft, its Unlikely the Space Jockey is but we DONT see his Legs so we cant assume how LONG they are in Proportion to his Body... it does-not matter much, all this Narration seems intended to do is indicate the Pilot is certainly LARGE (Rules Out David, a Human and our Engineers from the Prequels).

"and it had been there a long time. It looked like a fossil”. Its ribcage had exploded outwards"

When the Fossil Comment is used its usually to indicate that it looks Skeletal and that its been there a LONG Time, actually it would be more like it was Mummified, the Indication here by the Author is to lead us to the Space Jockey had been there a LONG TIME... certainly what appears to be more than say 30 YEARS.

"it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins, but it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form”

This clearly shows a Indication that we are dealing with a Space Suit, but one that is Organic more than None-Organic where its hard to tell what is the Organic Suit or the Wearer.

This does fit well with the Concept Work, there are some Differences between the Engineers Suits, and Space Jockey, there are some Differences between the Juggernaut and Derelict.

The Juggernaut/Engineers appear to be LESS Organic, there are also some Size Differences...

These could come down to just OVERSIGHT...

If we look beyond that and try and Logically look at the Differences then we would likely have to Conclude.

1) They are the Same/Similar but over Time the Suit/Ship had Warped/Changed shape, grown and changed, this could make sense if they are Organic to a Degree, but WHAT could change the Composition/Size of the Ship/Suit in a Short Time.   But it could be something that could CHANGE over a LONG period of Time... which has to be more Longer than Thousands of Years as the Dead Engineer Suits in Prometheus had not changed.

2) They are some what Different, like a Newer/Older Model a Technological Evolution, but i dont see the Engineers Technology Changing VERY Often, so its not like say the Juggernauts were part of Different Models they bring out every Few Thousand Years, its Unlikely the Derelict is thus a Newer Model that came out only a Few Thousand Years ago.  It appear more likely the Derelict seemed like a more Ancient Model.

3)  It could appear we are looking at a Older slightly different Technology that is more Organic, this could maybe draw us to Conclude that the Derelict is a more Ancient Technology than the Juggernauts, that they belonged to a different Race to the Engineers (or Variant)

But who knows what we would END UP with.... going the Route that the Derelict Aesthetically is the same Technology as a Juggernaut (Created/Engineered at the around same Time) that then has ONLY been on LV-426 for like 10-15 years MAX and the Pilot is a 8ft Engineer never mind a Human or Human Synthetic, is surely a Very Difficult Oversight to Accept.

So those remarks from the NOVEL are a indication by the Author to show that we are dealing with a Humanoid, that is inside a 16ft Space Suit that is Organic in its Material and has been there for a VERY Long Time.

Taking the NOVEL as 100% Canon, and looking at ALIEN, it would appear we could ASSUME we are looking at Ancient Ship, with a Ancient 13-16ft Pilot that has been there for more than a FEW Thousand Years.

MonsterZero

What about a pending lawsuit concerning insurance money? In a way, it was sabotage of the ship where Janek went against company orders (Miss Vickers').

Surely, there would be an investigation . . .

I would watch a LIVE CAM of LV-223 (probably night and day!) Don't need a scripted movie...Just watch the razor storms roll across the planet and a couple shots of the tombs....Hoping to catch a glimpse of movement!

Did you see that!!?....Something near the escape pod moved?!?...........probably just the wind?