Comments (Page 216)

You're right, hox, and maybe we don't need any emissaries, BigDave? The star maps could depict much older events (like religious tradition). That's why we haven't encountered the engineers for about 2000 years. :)

By the way, the star maps show us a constellation of 6 stars (Reticulum?). Perhaps it was the wrong starsystem the Prometheus crew travelled to?

@BigDave, you can't believe a word David says! By any definition he is an all out psychopath who will say and do anything to achieve his ends. I do wonder, though, whether he might have turned out very differently had his creator been a little kinder... We see at the beginning of Covenant, shortly after his inception, where Weyland deliberately instructs him to pour the tea: you are nothing more than a slave. And in Prometheus, Weyland humiliates him in front of the entire crew by pointing out that David will never have a soul. With a lifetime of hearing Try Harder, is it any wonder he came to regard his makers as pitiful?

Actually, on the matter of a soul, I think Weyland is dead wrong about that. It's clear that David is a fully fledged sentient AI capable of independent thought and creativity. From my perspective, the hardware doesn't really matter, soft grey matter or silicon, a soul is a soul. And when Shaw asks him the question "What will you do when Weyland isn't around to program you any more?" I think she's barking up the wrong tree. It's clear that David is in actuality self-programming himself all the time. A little like we all are.

@chli, good spot about the provenance of those other star maps. I'm going to be generous to the production team and say that finding a piece of art created in 680 CE does not necessarily mean that the events depicted therein happened anywhere near that time. 'The Nativity' by Piero della Francesca was created almost 1500 years after the birth of Christ, for example.

NB, an account of the Dogon people was probably instrumental in the development of this particular plot line.

Alien Covenant Trailer Song

There was a boy, A very strange enchanted boy

(David does appear like a Boy at times in Prometheus and he certainly is a bit Strange and Enchanted).

They say he wandered very far, very far,
Over land and sea

(we know David has been on this Journey to Planet 4)

A little shy and sad of eye, But very wise was he

(He did at times come across a bit Shy, maybe he was a bit Sad at his mistreatment and indeed he would have amassed many years of Knowledge).

And then one day, A lucky day he passed my way

Then we spoke of many things, Fools and kings

(certainly think about how he could have talked about how Foolish Weyland was, and indeed the Ozymandias Poem could come to mind when talking about Fallen Foolish Kings)

Then he said to me:
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return"

(this certainly fits with David, he had felt that he was unloved by many including his own Creator, and he had saw Kindness from Elizabeth Shaw, and he felt Love for her.... but ALAS she never felt the same Love back for him).

So to a degree the Nature Boy Song does kind of Fit with David, maybe it was NOT a Coincidence this Track was chosen for the Trailer?

Then he said to me:
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return"

Could this play a Part in his Agenda going forwards as far as "what kind of a World" he would Create... which he said to Daniels in reply to her asking what kind of a World can they create "if we are kind it will be a kind world"

Well this is SCI-FI and so maybe we could look at if there is a Connection between Various Humanoids, the Engineers Plot also reveals about Experiments that also use more than Humanoid DNA...  Hybrids..

We maybe have to ask WHY the Engineers seem to want to Create Life in their Image....  we could then Ponder for instance HOW MANY Life-Forms are Human-like.

But then also we should not limit the Universe to Human-like Life and so other Humanoids could be Very Different, and so indeed Arcturians are interesting, how Human are they?  If they are Hybrids or Different then they likely would have LESS of a DNA Match.

If the Engineers have Engineered many Intelligent Species then maybe there DNA is the Base Canvas.  But we cant rule out if they had Experimented in the Past to Cross-Hybrid other None-Human Organisms with a Human-like Canvas.

Are the Arcturians as such?  Or could they be something the Engineers or their Creators have NEVER been involved with?

There is Indeed nothing like Perfection... we could get something we consider Perfect but that could be down to each persons Taste, there is nothing that is Perfect for everyone.

Because you can always find ways to make something deemed Perfect, even more Perfect so you NEVER really can achieve such.

The Thing that Perfection offers is the Drive and Ambition to Pursue Perfection, its what drives us on to Improve things we have already Achieved.  You will NEVER achieve Perfection but the Pursuit of it will allow for Improvements over what we currently have.

So we would Strive for Perfection even though we know we can NEVER Truly obtain it.

" Then, humanity could follow the yellow brick road to the land of Oz."

This seemed to be the case with Space 2001, but it appears to not had been the case with Prometheus.

"Another thing is that I’m beginning to wonder if there aren’t at least two substances: one for seeding (creating) and one for weeding (destroying)"

I think it depends on how we look at the GOO... in that Really Long Post i had explained my Interpretation of the Substance as a Seeding Tool we are led to see the Black Goo would in effect Destroy Life but from it is New Life so for Example Fifield is NOT the same as he was as a Human..  In some of the  Concept Works and Spaights Draft we see that he had became a Hybrid with Xenomorph related DNA.

Back to my Long Winded Explanation... if the GOO is a TOOL that Breaks Down a Organisms DNA/Traits and this becomes Passed on by the Pathogen...  then we have to ask WHAT happens if a Sacrificed Engineer event happens on Earth and his Broken Down Molecules infect the Water, we can assume this would then INFECT Organic Life and Mutate it to have more Engineer DNA... and so maybe this Process would RESET the Affected Area, a Infected Person would EVOLVE to something NEW and maybe would loose who they used to be.

Fifield was maybe became a more Hostile Organism because the DNA of the Deacon/Xenomorph related Organism is more Aggressive and Hostile.

The way i saw the GOO is the same as Spaights Scarabs, which we have to remember was the Basis for the GOO.

Alien Engineers we see...

*Engineer opens Sacrificial Cup/Box and Sacrificial Scarabs Consume ENGINEER, they then Store Engineer DNA.

*One of these Scarabs then flies off and Bites a Female Primate and INJECTS the Engineers DNA and she Mutates into a Hybrid which is indicated how our Origins Began we thus Started as a Engineer/Primate Hybrid.

*The Next Time we see the Scarabs are in Urn/Vases that Fifield knocks over and then some Scarabs get into his Space Suit and ONE then BITES him.... this Scarab (Does-Not Consume him) but INJECTS a Cargo of DNA into him.... Fifield then Mutates into a XENOMORPH like Hybrid.

We could Conclude from this that those Scarabs maybe Consumed that DNA from some Xenomorph Related Organism.

Apply this to Prometheus but replace Scarabs with GOO and consider Sacrificial Pose Mural and Altar with Sacrificial Bowl (Originally in Trailers) and maybe it becomes quite SIMPLE.

Scarabs/Goo are a Creation/Hybrid Tool that can be used to OBTAIN the DNA/Traits of a Organism and then allow this to be Passed on to other Life to Create a Hybrid.

Alien Covenant muddied the Waters a Little though, we now seem to maybe have a Pathogen that can be Programed to Obtain/Pass on DNA or/and to Target DNA and replace Molecules with Petrified/Crystallized Molecules..

"Furthermore, we see that the DNA-string of the sacrificial engineer breaks apart (suggesting just the building blocks of life is passed on), yet, our DNA matches that of the engineers which seems like a contradiction."

Certainly it is likely this scene was the Catalyst to Evolve Basic Life into Complex Life and Kick Start Evolution.  Ridley Scott had indicated the Engineers come back over and over to Further Evolve/Engineer their Creations. So its a Long Process.

We can see similar with David, his workshop seems to show that he has taken the Neomorph and using the GOO he has Experimented on Various Organisms to OBTAIN certain DNA/Traits to then Mix/Match with each other and the Neomorph to Create the Xenomorph.

The Engineers likely did the same with Worlds they Seed, Creating various Organisms via Various Experiments in addition to Evolution.

"The Engineers just left their calling card to humans living in primitive societies, that's all. Here's where we came from, since you ask."

I think a few interesting things to consider with this, the Engineer that David spoke to said that THEY did-not come from LV-223 but a place we would call Paradise.

And how accurate was the Star-Map? Was it so precise to point to LV-223? Or just the Star System and LV-223 just happened to be the only World that appeared more Habitable?  The Latter appears to be the case... however with Alien Covenant via the Advent it appears that Planet 4 was located around the Zeta Systems too so we cant 100% rule out that the Star-Map pointed to Planet 4 but this World was Hidden/Cloaked some how (as Alien Covenant appeared to indicate).

Dr Shaw indicated that they was WRONG... in that this was in No-Way a Invitation to come and find the Engineers.  It is likely the Engineers never intend Mankind to Advance to a Level that we could leave Earth and so the only way we are intended to LEAVE is if the Engineers decide to come and TAKE some of us from Earth.

The other way to look at it was a Warning... like "dont go to this place" but with the Engineers Teachings surely they would have been passed on at some point so we would know it was a Warning...  Why Pass a Warning on for like over 30'000 Years?

Another way to look at it was a TRAP but again this is Flawed, as while Fooling us to seek this place to then Discover Death is what potentially could happen, the Place also would allow Mankind to gain Engineer Technology should we have a way to protect from their Bio-Weapon Experiments.

But i think we have to go back to Basics, the Chariots of the Gods Plot, in which many Ancient Cultures told Tales of Gods who came from the STARS.... so its likely the Star-Map is a indication of that.

As the Engineer said they dont come from LV-223, then i think it leaves TWO options.

1) The Engineers were pointing to were THEY came from but this World is Hidden (Planet 4) and so the Prometheus just went to the Closest Location to the Star-Map System that seemed to be somewhat Habitable which by Coincidence just happens to be a Facility that contains Death and Connected with the Engineers and their Agenda at some point to Destroy us.

2) It was to show WHERE we came from, and so this Place was where the Engineers would Experiment with their Creations as some Green-House/Sandbox but at some point those Engineers had became interested in the Experiments with a Life-Form/DNA that they felt was more Interesting and Superior to Humanoid Life/DNA and intended to UPGRADE us.

"One very interesting thing is that the engineers visited us about 600 years after the outbreak on LV-223"

This Certainly is a Puzzle... did they come back even after LV-223 Outbreak.  Or.... could we be looking at one of these TWO.

Ridley Scott teased they sent down a Emissary First (Christ) but we still never changed our ways and we Crucified this Emissary and that was the Last Straw.

1) We cant take things too Literal to just ONE kind of Religion or Mythos as the Star Maps Spanned various Cultures.  So could there had been Multiple Emissaries sent to Various Cultures around the World and only some of those had KILLED their Emissaries to the Engineers, while some Cultures that lived less Corrupt/Advanced Lives still had their Emissaries or some Emissaries Migrated to those other Cultures after 2000 years ago?

2) Could the Emissaries have had Disciples who carried on going around the World and passing on the Teachings and the Star-Map to other Cultures?

I think either makes Logical Sense... but thats NOT to say what is going on.

Furthermore, we see that the DNA-string of the sacrificial engineer breaks apart (suggesting just the building blocks of life is passed on), yet, our DNA matches that of the engineers which seems like a contradiction.

I think I prefer to see the sacrificial scene as the beginning of life on Earth (although they probably have seeded other worlds). What we see in the prologue is how the engineers engineered us (through the building blocks of life, evolution, and perhaps technical help as they visited our civilisations). They became upset when we evolved in the wrong direction (the execution of Christ?), wanted to wipe us out but the biological weapon hit themselves (but for another 600 years they still visited us!).

BigDave

“this is where we created you”

“The gardeners of space” were kind enough to give these ancient civilisations, ranging from Stone Age (about 35.000 years BCE) to the Mayan (and Hawaiian) civilisations (in the 7th century CE), a star map indicating a place which they had no possibility of knowing where it was?

In 2001: A Space Odyssey, the extraterrestrial beings were also gardeners of space, controlling evolution, and were patiently waiting for us to evolve into the space age. Then, humanity could follow the yellow brick road to the land of Oz.

One thing we haven’t touched upon (I think) is that the engineers continued to be worshipped and visited us about 600 years after the outbreak on LV-223! Who were they? Engineers from Planet 4?

Another thing is that I’m beginning to wonder if there aren’t at least two substances: one for seeding (creating) and one for weeding (destroying)?

hox

There were other civilisations with the same star map: Egyptian, Mayan, Sumerian, Babylonian, Hittite and Hawaiian. These range from about 2470 BCE to 680 CE.

One very interesting thing is that the engineers visited us about 600 years after the outbreak on LV-223 . . .

I love the Reptilian Hybrid image BigDave.  It reminds me of "V".

Great topic.

Excellent Moebius Arcturians reference Lone.  Thank you.

I agree with Leto and others that Doctors Shaw and Holloway blew it on the mural interpretation.  There is most likely a disclaimer, now faded away, written in an ancient script near the system that read "Don't go here."

Or...

"The fresco depicts a location in space some 35,000 years ago, long before the Engineers turned on humanity (which we know was about 2,000 years ago).

The Engineers just left their calling card to humans living in primitive societies, that's all. Here's where we came from, since you ask."

Good point hox.  

The mural was very old, the visiting Engineers could have certainly cited where they came from when asked, and later turned on humanity and they were wiped out in an incident when preparing to act on Earth.  This scenario ties quite well to what was seen on LV-223.

Great topic.  Thank you chli.

That's a good angle dk and it is kind of related to BigDave citing LV-223 as a "Sand-Box".  

LV-223 could have started off as something else entirely (like an experimental technology testing ground and storage) to later become an apparent military installation.

Very good catch on the AURORA song BigDave.  Love it.

Engineer DNA Match

"may be many Various Kinds of Humanoids."

"And indeed we could ponder about the Arcturians are they created by the Engineers?"

It would very interesting to me if the humanoids encountered, such as the Arcturians, were a match to human DNA as well.  

When taking Prometheus (Engineer sample DNA match to human DNA) into account, I assume the Arcturians would be a DNA match to human's DNA because they are so close to Earth...in the Engineer's neighborhood.

Leto brings up a good point about past civilizations discovering the rock paintings. By the time we had the ability to reach LV-223, it could have changed into a military/research base.

I am sure it was NOT a Invitation...

But certainly who knows how many Civilizations had been to LV-223, ATLANTIS is a Great Example.

Ridley Scott had mentioned the Engineers have Reset Worlds before and suggested they had done this on Earth before... mentioning Atlantis.

So he was indicating that the Downfall of the Atlanteans was at the Hands of the Engineers.

If we look at my Interpretation of the Engineers Agenda and the Juggernauts, then Bombarding the Engineers DNA on a World would RESET it.

Life would be Reset but with Engineer DNA and then it would not take too long before the World is back to what it was.

Using Xeno/Deacon based DNA just makes NO sense!

It could be likely some Engineers at some point encountered something related to the Deacon/Xenomorph and they had become Perverted with the Concept that this Organism is more Perfect...

Maybe attempting to use its DNA to Evolve themselves?

What if the LV-223 Engineers are Sub-Created Slaves and Clones and so like Replicants to the Planet 4 Engineers. (Hence they have NO Nipples)

A Sub-species that are Engineered, or Engineered themselves to the point they CANT procreate..

Encountering a Organism that then would allow these beings to GIVE BIRTH to something could be seen as Interesting to these beings who then decide the Result has the Potential, and so they begin to Experiment on this Species....  hence the Experiments that latter occurred on LV-223?

This is how i have always been drawn to the connection...

Maybe the Organism was sent as a Punishment or it came about when some Engineers had attempted to Engineer themselves with the DNA of something Else.

I assume at some-point either of these led to the First Encounter with what would Predate the Deacon/Xenomorph DNA and potentially could be the Fresco Creature.

The Perverted, Corrupt and Fallen Engineers then seeing the DNA of the Deacon as being more Ideal to EVOLVE Worlds than their own DNA that came from their Creators the Planet 4 Engineers.

The LV-223/Prometheus Engineers thus being similar to Lucifer and David in Agenda.

"One (of many) problems with David being the creator of the xenomorph is that the pathogen is already created by the engineers aeons ago"

Absolutely all he has merely done is Experimented with the Bio-Weapon to Create his own Variant.

Prior to Alien Covenant its likely and indicated the Engineers Created the Xenomorph maybe by similar Processes to what David had done in Alien Covenant.

I understand the reason behind the U-Turn.. but i feel the reason for this would have been Perfectly Suited to showing David take the Engineers Work and Create a Different Variant that is SUPERIOR to the Deacon and Xenomorph.

But ALAS!

@LONE

Fantastic Reply... right on the Money as far as HOW Fans can look at the Franchise.. a Excellent Post.

If this the invitation...

Maybe some early Earth civilization already flew to LV-223? Atlantis, for example.

"According to me, the lyrics of “A Different Kind of Human” is about humanity and that we have become corrupt. But, there are some individuals that are pure and given the chance of getting away from Earth (by a higher power) and start all over."

;)

Indeed thats how i connect it, i feel the Engineers would Logically come back to TAKE some Humans away before they RESET the World!

Children would be the IDEAL choice... Innocent and Pure.

This is similar to what has been done in Movies before... such as Knowing 2009 (Spoiler for End)

It was one way i was thinking of making a Story about them, but i never got further than a Broad Base of Plot ideas...

Prior to that i felt they was a Species of Hermaphrodites but latter i considered what do they gain from Humanoids coming to Visit them?  Do they just enjoy SEX?  Do they make Money/Trade from it?

So i pondered that other Idea... but there are conflicts with this as we have to ask HOW did they Procreate for Hundreds and Thousands of years prior?

Did the Engineers perform this Function in the Past or Humans the Engineers had taken to Arcturus?

So yeah there are Flaws in the Needing Human Seed to Procreate.... so maybe not the best idea.  Also makes the Plot a little more like Species too.

The Various Moebius influences are very Prominent.

So the Arcturians as Shape-shifters?  Who knows ;)

There is always some Ambiguity with the Prequels and a lot depends on HOW you try and look at the Prequels and for some the Center Point seems to be the Xenomorph/Black Goo Horrors, Bio-Weapons and Warlike beings wishing to use such on Mankind or to simply just Procreate such things...

Ridley Scott seems to indicate the Engineers as Gardeners of Space more than Warmongering Genocidal would be Gods.

I was going to reply to this Topic Earlier but was busy, however hox seems to be on the Right Track ;)

We need to look at some of the Basics that appeared to be indicated for what the Engineers Plot was... this would require taking into account what Production has said which includes RS and scenes that are CUT...   If we look at the Theatrical Cut then we can come to a different Conclusion.

*The PLOT behind the Engineers is the Ancient Aliens/Gods and Chariots of the Gods Theory... Which is that we was NOT Created by a Magical Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent Being (GOD) or the Product of a Big Bang and Evolution.  But that we are the Product of a Ancient Alien Species who had Played a Part in the Creation, Evolution and Interaction/Knowledge of our Species.  These would-be GODS are who we Interpret as our Gods from various Mythos/Religion.

*We should NOT assume the Sacrificial Scene was on Earth, it was merely to indicate this is the Process the Engineers Seed Worlds, but this is ONLY a part of the Process, they Continue to Experiment and Evolve their Experiments over Countless Thousands of Years.

*LV-223 was indicated as a Location going back at least 35'000 Years ago.  Yet the Engineers only intended to Set Off 2000 Years ago to use those Bio-Weapons on us.. WHY wait that long?

*LV-223 was a Hostile Environment for Life on Earth, we could not Survive more than TWO Minutes on that World, yet inside the Complex and Ships there is a Atmosphere that is Breathable for us..  YET! the Engineers appear to NOT need any Space Suits to Breath on the Surface and we can assume the Xenomorph does-not need the same Environment to Support Life that we do.

So WHY would they invest in this place being able to SUPPORT Life from Earth?

We need to look at the Engineers from the Creationist Stand Point from the Gardeners of Space Stand Point.

A lot of TIME and investment must go into either Discovering Suitable Worlds or Terra-forming them.

A lot of TIME and investment must go into the Seeding and Evolution of Life on said Worlds.

If you main Objective is to Create Life, Experiment with Life in the aim to Evolve and Perfect your Creations, then ideally you would want some kind of SAND-BOX

If you was a Gardener and you have Great Gardens with a all Manner of Plants, Flowers, Crops, Fruit and Vegetables.    When you decide to Experiment with these to Create Better Versions or Hybrids it would be WISE to do so in some kind of GREEN-HOUSE and then when you are Pleased with the Results and that they would NOT affect the Garden you have, then you would take your NEW and improved Experiments and Seed/Plant them in the Garden.

I believe that THIS was what LV-223 was.. a Green-House a SANDBOX. The Star Maps are thus saying "this is where we created you"

Lets look at the Sacrificial Scene....  Engineer Consumes the GOO, his Body is Broken Down and then these Broken Down Molecules then Form into something NEW that then either.

1) Reform into the Basic Building Blocks of Life (however the Scene shows the World has Planet Life and so likely has Basic Life already).

2) The Process is the Catalyst that allows for the Engineers DNA to pass on to Basic Life and EVOLVE it into Complex Life and thus Kick Start the Evolution to Complex Life.

If we look at Jon Spaights idea of Nano-Scrabs to Decode the GOO then we see those Scarabs Consume the Engineer and STORE his DNA we see ONE of these Scarabs then Bite a Primate and Pass on the Engineers DNA.. this indicating this Process is what began our Origins...

Sacrificed/Stored Engineer DNA ==> Primate ==> Early Mankind.

What if this Engineer was in some Container when he was Sacrificed and those Scarabs that Consumed him then was collected and Stored into Containers?  (Urns) we can assume that dropping a Container that Breaks Open would see those Scarabs unleashed and IF they then Bite a Primate then we would get the SAME Result!

Replace Scarabs for GOO and so the Prometheus Engineer was Sacrificed in a Container and the Broken Down Material is then Collected into URNS... then we can assume that Dropping the Contents of the URN into the Water Fall would be the SAME result!

The Seeding Scene is a VERY long time ago... to send down a Engineer drop him off on a Planet and have him Consume the Sacrificial Scarabs/Goo is the way they did things but what if they had more Control?  By that what if they made the Engineers Sacrifice themselves in another Place and COLLECTED the resulting Material into URNS.

You then have SHIPS that DROP these onto a World Instead and we get the same EFFECT... only more Efficient!

Does that make sense?

Are the Juggernauts/Urns just a more Advanced/Efficient way of Seeding the Engineers?

Lets look at this Comment by Ridley Scott.

"That could be a planet anywhere. All he’s doing is acting as a gardener in space. And the plant life, in fact, is the disintegration of himself. If you parallel that idea with other sacrificial elements in history – which are clearly illustrated with the Mayans and the Incas – he would live for one year as a prince, and at the end of that year, he would be taken and donated to the gods in hopes of improving what might happen next year, be it with crops or weather, etcetera."

The Prequels talk about Immortality... you are Immortalized by your Deeds, what you are remembered for, what you Created (Art, Music) and from your Seed (Family Generations). Some are Remembered by Monuments.

Lets look at some of the Dialog from Elders Scene that was not shown..   The Elder had said to the Sacrificial Engineer... "Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters. And may your soul become their way back to us."

Take those TWO Quotes into Account  and then look at Planet 4 and look at those Monuments those Statues and that the Engineers seem to take Great Pride in their WAYS..  and its a Honor to be Chosen as a Sacrifice to Seed Worlds.

Then if we consider this to be the case, then being selected as a Sacrifice, where your Donation would end up having you LIVE-ON via passing on your Genetic Material and then having a Statue Erected of you in your Honor could be seen as TWO ways to gain some kind of Immortality.

If we look at Paradise its a place only the Worthy/Pure and Honorable are deemed to be allowed to LIVE..  It in other contexts is a Walled City that the Garden of Eden was located, where the Cradle of Life Began...

Thus what if those Engineers are the deemed Worthy Genetic Stock the Engineers select to SEED Worlds?

Take all this into account and then look at WHY the Engineers were welcoming the Juggernaught, and WHY they had NO Fear until the Bombardment.

Take this into account and ask IF these Ships were WARSHIPS then why did they lack any Defense Mechanisms?

Look at Davids Workshop for Experimenting and Creating Various Hybrids in the Pursuit of Perfection and ASK... what happens if some of these get loose on Planet 4 and this Planet was full of Life.. 

Any undesired Experiments could IMPACT the World and Life on it....  Would it NOT be better to Experiment on a Separate World... in Complexes that are Separated from Each Other?

This is WHAT i think LV-223 was..... a Sandbox!

Take that into account... if a Complex has Experiments that Need a Habitat like Earth to Survived should ANY escape the Complex they would DIE before they reach the other Complexes..

This makes Perfect Sense for why LV-223 was Hostile Outside and the Separation of Each Complex?

IF you have bared with me by NOW.. thanks... this has been my Interpretation of the Space Gardeners, Paradise and LV-223.

The fresco depicts a location in space some 35,000 years ago, long before the Engineers turned on humanity (which we know was about 2,000 years ago).

The Engineers just left their calling card to humans living in primitive societies, that's all. Here's where we came from, since you ask.

The question is, what were Engineers doing on LV-223 tens of thousands of years ago? There are numerous 'pyramids' there, each superficially similar. It may be the case that the inhabitants of LV-223 were tasked with both seeding civilisations on new worlds (e.g. us), and pruning out the failures (also us, but after a long trial). Long before they got involved with humanity, the Engineers were seeding and weeding other civilisations for perhaps millions of years.

Lone

I agree. The story is ambiguous and open enough to take any turn (e.g. whether David is the creator of the xenomorph or just delusional). A sequel must rake in dollars so a contemplative or action movie?

Leto

Yes, but they tell us where they are . . .

"The invitation" is just Shaw's interpretation.

Rock paintings may look/read (for caveman) like that:

High man points to the planets:

- See these planets? Don't fly to them!

The ambiguous elements do serve a purpose.

For one thing, they allow us to selfishly tailor our own ideas, likes, preferences & wants into how we view many elements from both Prometheus & Covenant. Thereby making the things we don't particularly like about the prequels more malleable, palatable or acceptable for ourselves.

Also, it allows for a get-out-of-jail card if it appears the story has been backed into a corner! Not really a satisfactory situation, but there you have it.

They also create a sounding board for the franchise, allowing the studio to pick & choose, find out what works or doesn't, like an ever evolving risky experiment.

For everyone who dislikes Prometheus, there is someone who enjoys it, likewise with Covenant. The problem being that each sequel changes focus to a certain extent after a backlash from certain quarters of the fanbase. In a way we are all responsible for that!

At this point in time the story could still evolve in ways which would be pleasing for many of us. But who is listening & gauging reaction? With such a broad variety of opinion across the internet, who has the final say?

It's dangerous ground, very dangerous ground!

For those of us who stick with it, they have us dangling by a slender thread.

I hope Sir Ridders is allowed at least one more outing. This story must reach a conclusion. 

Whatever happens in the future, the only thing I am certain of is that it will cause much shock, anger, frustration, controversy, speculation, admiration & downright pleasure. 

Concerning Aurora and the topic of this post . . .

According to me, the lyrics of “A Different Kind of Human” is about humanity and that we have become corrupt. But, there are some individuals that are pure and given the chance of getting away from Earth (by a higher power) and start all over.

AC could have taken another turn given the mini-films (such as “The Crossing”). The trailer-song “Nature Boy” is interesting since, in this context, it must have referred to David who is the strange, sad and lonely boy who wanders very far and seeks the love he has not been given by his creators (Weyland and humanity).

David could perhaps have been “saved” by Shaw but his exposure to psychological maltreatment leads to hate and vengeance instead.

Shaw is "a different kind of human" but could she really love a synthetic? Could she really have saved him?

Ah, I had forgotten about the male counterpart to Sil, Dave.

I like your idea of them needing human seed to produce the male, that would dovetail nicely & at least they would have some positive benefit from such relations, rather than merely being a species exploited purely for pleasure.

You're right about that similarity dk ;

Hah, how cool would it be to connect The Thing & the Alien by way of their origin. 

Think of the Arcturians as the exploited pleasure model variant of The Thing! Lol

BigDave

One (of many) problems with David being the creator of the xenomorph is that the pathogen is already created by the engineers aeons ago. It is the pathogen which mutates organisms into deadly beasts (in order to extinguish life). The pathogen either gives rise to the xenomorph or the xenomorph’s DNA is part of the “anti-elixir”.

In Prometheus (apart from the mural depicting the whole xenomorph life cycle) we see what the pathogen can “create”: hammerpedes, trilobites, deacons etc.

In Alien: Covenant, the pathogen has eradicated all indigenous fauna. The pathogen has mutated fungi into lethal spore carriers which, if they infect a hominid (what would be the outcome if a deer or bear would be infected?), a neomorph is the result. A neomorph is as deadly as a xenomorph (and related to it).

So, even if they want us to believe that David is the creator of the xenomorph, there still has been in the past and in “the present” other variants, just as deadly. If the pathogen contains DNA from a beast the engineers have stumbled upon, perhaps it was even deadlier - an über-xenomorph?

Between Lone's and BigDave's ideas and illustrations, it reminds me a bit of The Thing. It is a shape shifter of shorts but requires a species' DNA in order to mimic it. Just an idea and not suggesting there is a relation. But the mystery of what The Thing actually is seems similar to the mystery of the The Black Goo- something that initially was an accident and took on a life of its own.

"I've always felt that the Urns in the unexplored LV-223 silos contained different Deacon-related variants & or specimens gathered from, completely different species throughout the Universe"

This would FIT Perfectly with the Gardner's of Space Agenda.  We did see in Prometheus the Urns had Various Sizes... which was Strange for a Bio-Weapon.

We have 5 Temple Complexes and it seems Each Complex has Multiple Rooms.  So its Likely Each Temple had a Variant Organism Experiments or even each Temple could have inside Multiple Variants too.

Alien Engineers indicated the Engineers had 7/8 Variants of the Xenomorph and it seemed to imply those were Engineered from something they had Discovered.

I am drawn to the LV-223 Complex being something Very Different in the Past more connected to Space Gardening rather than Produce Xenomorphs and the like.

But trying to get back to the OT...

Yes the Arcturians could maybe trace their Origins back to LV-223 too.

Regarding the Fresco Creature... it does have a similarity to the Door Way Arches especially the Concept Work one.  This Beast is a Very interesting Enigma.   While i DONT think its the Arcturians we maybe cant rule out the Arcturians  having a similar Aesthetic as the Xenomorph was based partly on HR Gigers Concept but it also had Reptile/Insect Influences.  The HR Giger Aesthetic is a Mixture of Bio-Mechanical, Feminine with Reptile/Insect Aesthetic.

The Fresco Creature does bear a bit of a Resemblance to the Male Organism from Species 3.  

While a Different Franchise... Species does use the HR Giger Aesthetic.  And you could see that Aesthetic does have Elements of Humanoid with Reptilian and Insectoid Traits.  

So maybe the Arcturians  could have a similar Aesthetic?

The Engineers Under Pressure Suits have that similar Aesthetic too.

I had about 2 Years ago i think, pondered and i think i mentioned on here then, that i had a idea about the Arcturians as a Species that had a bit of a Agenda for Sleeping with Humanoids...  in that they required from Time to Time our DNA well SEED! 

Going Further that this is required to Create the Male Species which do-not LIVE forever and so they need to Mate with some Humanoids in order to Obtain a Male Versions of their Species.

But ALAS this was many of the ideas i had, that i never Progressed as FAR as in depth Fleshing Out.

I had envisioned their Species to be somewhat Aquatic looking more than Reptilian but still have a bit of Reptilian to them, but also to have a bit of that HR Giger Aesthetic like from Species, but also to have some Human Traits too.

A Species that would say be like 15% Similar to a Grey Alien like Traits, 15% Human, 15% Reptilian,  40% Aquatic with a 15% HR Giger like Gloss Over.

Grey-ish Blue in Color with some Pattern and a Race that is very Feminine in Shape/Features but LACK any Breast as their Young are Laid as Eggs and do-not get Breast Fed.

Thats kind of how i Envisioned them... but i lack any real Artistic Skills to do them justice in a Drawing LOL

Wayne and Steven both did some Concept work on the Cathedral and both it looked the same apart from Slight Differences regarding the Human looking Figures on the Doorway/Entry to the Temple. 

While this may bear no connection any longer, it is interesting HOW those TWO had depicted very similar, instead of Bald Humanoids.   The whole Creation/Chariots of Gods Plot does open up many ways to explore the Connections and History.

Some Fans Speculate the Engineers tried to Re-Create their GOD (Deacon) other that trying to Re-Create such a Beast was the SIN/FALL of some Engineers.

What Irony and Curveball it would be if the Prometheus Engineers attempted to Re-Create their Creators (Planet 4 Engineers) very Own Creators... a Earlier Version of Humanity!

Thus....

Earlier Humans ==> Planet 4 Engineers ==> LV-223 Engineers ==> Humans on Earth.

We see Modern Humans Create David... but what if a Synthetic Being had Created the Earlier Humans and those Synthetic Beings were Created by a Bio-Mechanical Species?

Starbeast ===> Synthetic Race ===> Early Humans ===> Planet 4 Engineers ===> LV-223 Engineer ===> Modern Humans ===> Synthetic Race ===> Bio-Mechanical Horror.

Ps Indeed hox, Ridley would tell you that MOEBIUS was very much an influence on Blade Runner, Prometheus & Covenant. Even his storyboard style & also his latest ad for Hennessy is packed with Moebius imagery.

Below are two threads you might want to check out, one by Ingeniero, second one posted by Big Dave.

The Seven Worlds - Directed by Ridley Scott

A Parting Gift

@hox Yes, that was a bit of a stretch by me & not a very satisfactory one.

Like many here I've wanted to find out exactly what connection this beastie has to the lifecycle. It appears to have some significance given that it is featured above some of the doorways in the Silo and the Juggernaut. I'd love to see a living version of it, but I doubt that it will ever be revisited! If Ridley had been allowed to follow through from Prometheus, then perhaps, but alas, I seriously doubt that we will ever see anything so novel, awe-inspiring & interesting again! 

The murals are perhaps merely symbolic in that they depict the fate of the LV-223 Engineers/fallen angels/clones/Prometheus after they stole from their masters. Meaning that beaked species has no further significance. However much I wish it wasn't so!

@Lone, that's a slam dunk as far as I'm concerned. I'd heard before that Ridley's Prometheus was heavily influenced by Mobius. I mean, that's an Engineer in the bed, and he ends up fighting a creature trying to pull him into an airlock (slide 16)!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cameron had also seen this, and picked up on the Arcturian reference. Seems too much of a coincidence otherwise.

I don't believe the Mural creature is an Arcturian. Whatever it is, it's something nasty picking on the Engineer's liver. We don't know who sent it, but the Prometheus link suggests that it was the handiwork of the Engineer's creators.

Could the Mural creature be an Arcturian?

Just for you dk: Gigers Alien Monster VI

The Engineers, or those above them may well have created & adapted many non-human species.

I've always felt that the Urns in the unexplored LV-223 silos contained different Deacon-related variants & or specimens gathered from, completely different species throughout the Universe. Or in the case of LV-223 perhaps just hostile lifeforms, which could be used for destruction. Of course, that was after Prometheus, now I'm not so sure!

I think Jim Cameron may have been influenced by the Dan O'Bannon-Moebius Arcturian from The Long Tomorrow. 

After all, the Bishop knife trick was certainly a nice homage to the O'Bannon-Carpenter penned Dark Star.

Dark Star "The Knife Game"

What if the Arcturians are genderless shape-shifters, taking the form of anyone you want them to be? Sound too good to be true? Then it probably is, see below :)

BigDave Yes from the release of those early script I've said that those drawings are Synth porn. At least that was unique.