Comments (Page 223)
Latest comments by Alien fans on news, forum discussions and images!
@Gavin
Sorry if i was miss-understood, my reply was simply to Discus the OT in regards to HOW we could see David Mass Produce Xenomorphs, i certainly Dont think it would be a Good Idea to reveal David as the Space Jockey, i think its something we CANT rule out, but again it would make the whole Enigma of the Scene from ALIEN even less ALIEN.
I think there is a lot of Wishful Thinking about David being shown to NOT be the Creator and Fans can Cherry Pick certain things to Highlight the Case that he is NOT. However Ridley Scott suggested that he does indeed create the Xenomorph, but things could be subject to Change, Fan Pressure can have a Impact to SWAY the Plot as this is HOW we got Alien Covenant in the First Place.
Back to the OT, and indeed its Pretty Convenient that the Covenant has Thousands of Good Souls... Maybe its not so much Lazy/Easy Plot but could be used as a Red Herring? Certainly seems SET-UP that Davids objective would be to MASS Produce his Creation.
When looking at the PLAN, it appears RS is going for a Direct Route to the Back End of ALIEN, so we will at the Conclusion Discover HOW/WHEN and WHY those Eggs end up on the Derelict but who knows how SPOON-FED this would be as it could be Loosely Implied.
I think therefor we was on a Direct Route to ALIEN, events of the AC Sequel will lead to and play part in the Chain of Events to when we Arrive at the Cargo of Eggs on the Derelict. The thing to take NOTE of however is that RS had implied the NEXT Movie would NOT connect Directly, in that we are at least TWO Movies away from reaching the Conclusion that is the Space Jockey Event.
It seems implied that we are off to Origae-6 but we would Conclude with being in the System of LV-223/426 and so while David has to Produce more Eggs we are MISSING a Engineer Ship and it would be even more of a Convenient Coincidence if Origae-6 has a Engineer Ship.
I think the arrival of the Engineers as stated by RS will be the avenue to OBTAIN the Derelict, and so its NOT by any means Set-in-Stone that the Space Jockey would be David or a Human, it makes more sense for it to be a Engineer, a Race above the Engineers or another Creation of the Engineers or even a Creation of Davids.
You could expect the Engineers to be Curious of Davids Xenomorph and try and Obtain them... i think something like this gives us the LIKELY route to the Space Jockey Event... But who knows what they have planned, i dont think we can RULE-OUT a Carter Burke kind of Character, tries to take the Ship to Earth lol
I think when talking about the OT, and so to discus how we get from TWO Face Huggers to Thousands of Eggs, i think that maybe another U-Turn as in to show that David does-not Create the Xenomorph would be giving in to Fan Pressure, they need to stick with what they have done and Evolve the Story.
So while some would like the Engineers to Return with a Ship and UNLEASH a Xenomorph Queen which by Virtue would IMPLY that David had NOT created the Xenomorph, i dont think such a route would be wise, certainly something i cant see RS doing.
However they DONT have to go all the Way with David as the Creator.... its Damage Control now and so maybe we need to look at WHY the Engineers had Murals to something on LV-223 and would Experiment with stuff like that, instead of just using Black Goo Payloads.... if some Engineers took a Keen Interest and Devotion to the Deacon, they could see David's Creation as a Superior One but one that is NOT yet Perfect and thus the Engineers or another Race could be used to take Davids Xenomorph and EVOLVE it to get to the Cargo on the Derelict.
Saying that though a lot of things seem Conveniently Positioned by Virtue of the No-Longer Ancient Xenomorph Plot, and as ignorantGuy had indicated we cant OVERLOOK the Biological Aesthetic of the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant that RS had said has still some Evolving to do.... and so we cant rule out a Walter-Morph to become what we know as our Xenomorph from ALIEN.
@Gavin, like it or not, David being the Space Jockey was probably the route they would have gone because:
1. With covenant only David is Fassbender are important. Now that is a bright decision as with Dark Phoenix's flop, MF seems long streak seems not to end so why would Disney even bet on him?
2. The Alien is not yet finished, meaning he needs a synth host to acquire the rest of it's characteristics.
3. RS said that the next one will lead straight into the first one, so the silo is highly likely not to be a vague cameo. RS is usually not very subtle, sorry.
4. Was the twist in Covenant subtle? Why not look at history instead of what one wishes?
@ BigDave,
I seriously doubt that David will be revealed to be the "Space Jockey", and that the thousands of colonists will become the thousand's of eggs. Not only would this be the laziest writing since Alien: Resurrection, it would destroy the alien-ness and mystery of the Derelict and its origins.
When it comes to the Derelict on LV-426, IMO I think that it will just make a cinematic appearance in the third prequels closing moments (or a post-credit scene), with some ambiguous reference towards during the movie, may as the "Lost Ark" or the "Tomb of the Fallen".
The same goes for LV-223. In all honesty, I expect that the moon will not feature, with a reference or inference at most.
As for Origae-6, I think what setaverde has speculated will be part of what we will see - that David will establish a facility on the planet using the Covenants colony modules, in which he will use his two Facehuggers to mass produce his version of the Xenomorph. Visually I expect this facility, in its prime, would have been reminiscent of similar facilities seen in Doom 3 and various Alien comic-book/video-game concept art.
However, I recall there being mention that Ridley also wanted to see the Alien homeworld, or something visually similar. This is what I expect will become of Origae 6 - a Xenomorph infested facility surrounded by a bio-mechanical of growths, tunnels and bulbous "hives".
As for David needing to Black Goo for his mass production, I think that the substance will be revealed to be part of the Xenomorphs physiology, similar maybe to the "Royal Jelly" from the Dark Horse comic and thus revealing that David's alleged creation is just a recreation of what the ENgineers discovered thousands of years beforehand on LV-426.
"TOO little about Alien, a bit TOO disconnected from the story started in Alien"
That certainly seems to be a Opinion a number have, its certainly ONE of the reasons we got Alien Covenant (to have more Alieny Elements and Origins Answered).
Another point raised is also Valid... Prometheus was a bit too much OPEN ENDED and Ambiguous.
The Intention was to give Subtle Clues that those Engineers and that Place (LV-223) are Connected to ALIEN and the Derelict, these clues were just TOO Faint for most to even see any Real Connection.
The Lack of Xenomorph DNA which was only really shown via the Hammerpedes, the Trilobite/Deacon and shown via the MURAL were all a bit too LOOSE for Fans too, and the only Real Xenomorph like Attack Scenes could be the Hammerpede vs Milburn, and the Trilobite vs Engineer which leads to the Deacon... which some Fans may have been Disappointed we NEVER saw this Organism do anything but SNARL...
Plus where was any Connection to the Eggs/Derelict which some may have Expected!
The Movie Lacked these, and i think those who complained about such, and the Interest from Blomkamps Alien 5 had Forced FOX to conclude they need to give the Origins of the Xenomorph and Introduce the Beast back.
This could have been AVOIDED if they had gone back and Changed Prometheus a little.... Alien Engineers a prior Draft showed us TWO Kinds of Face Hugger and showed us THREE Kinds of Xenomorph well this is what we would have got had this Draft been made into the Movie.
Powers that Be.... had decided maybe we DONT have to give the Answers to ALIEN, maybe we dont need Xenomorphs, maybe their is a Bigger Picture and Avenue to go as far as the Engineers etc.
And they was CORRECT!
However in HINDSIGHT.... they should have used Prometheus as a BRIDGE to ALIEN and to Expand to something NEW, and therefore they should have had LESS Vague Clues, and they should have given us more Xenomorph Related Attacks.... as Toxic Avenger (Zombie) Fifield did-not cut the MUSTARD!
I attempted this with a Re-Write of Prometheus which i had 50% Completed and then LOST... and i attempted to find the Balance by making Prometheus have about 20% of what Alien Engineers had... as far as Alien Encounters and Clues.
For Example....
Fifield was more Xenomorph Hybrid and eventually was Killed outside and had Acid Blood. (just as he was intended in Alien Engineers).
The Hammerpede had led to a Chest/Back Buster in Milburn the resulting Chest Buster does-not get Far before being Killed, but does Savage Ford's Face First.
The ONE Hammerpede is SHOT and we see inside there are TINY Eggs not too Dissimilar to those in ALIEN but a Little Different.
More Time spent on the Mural/Fresco.
More Time spent on the Chest Busted Cryo-Pods
A Brief shot of what was behind the MURAL Door (more Mural/Frescos, showing a Sacrificial Ritual a Number of Cryo-Pods and a Equal Number of Smaller Tanks/Containers with Engineer Aesthetic.
Which all should have offered more Clues...
But again this would maybe NOT be ALIENY enough for some Fans, or offer Spoon Fed Clues to the Derelict.
The ONLY real way to had given them this would have been to Introduce More Alieny Scenes... Milburns Chest Buster escapes and Attacks more Crew as a Adult... Maybe show the Deacon Attack too. A Alternative Expanded version of my Re-Write was going to do both... VICKERS was not to be Killed by the Juggernaught.
I even Wondered if Vickers should be Killed by the Milburn-Morph and then either Show the Engineer KILL the Milburn-Morph or maybe the Deacon Kills it?
The ONLY other option for more ALIENY Movie would have been instead to make a SEQUEL that goes to LV-223 that is more like Alien Engineers and offers more Clues to what Ridley Scott had said at the Time regarding the DERELICT.
Which was that the Derelict Event had happened within a Few Hundred Years of the LV-223 Outbreak 2000 years ago, the Derelict had left LV-223 but only got as FAR as LV-426 because the Pilot was infected with his Cargo (which had Evolved).
This was Ridley Scotts explanation and Intention, but something he felt that you NEVER had to show, but it is something that PROMETHEUS simply did-not provide enough clues to Conclude this Explanation.
If Prometheus was more ALIENY or it had a Sequel that went to LV-223 that was more ALIENY... then in either case they could have CLOSED THE DOOR to ALIEN and Dr Shaw and David could have gone off on a Odyssey that is NOT connected to ALIEN but could expand on what Prometheus had laid down.
But ALAS..... and we got Alien Covenant.
Back after some time away (like, the immediate months after the released of A:C).
ninXeno426, I just saw the movie, yesterday, all the way through for the first time. I didn't ever see it in theaters, and when it was on TV I'd catch it at different parts. The lead up to Covenant actually got me interested in it as I'd kind of tuned out of the series after Alien 3 (I saw Resurrection and was deeply disappointed).
Anyway, I think Promethus as an idea works well in the Alien universe. I'd have much rather the movies in the series would have been prequels than sequels, in fact. I was always interested in the mysterious origins of these creatures.
I despie Covenant tying Prometheus to Alien more directly, I think Prometheus was a better movie, tonally. The problem I see with the prequels is that Prometheus was maybe a bit TOO little about Alien, a bit TOO disconnected from the story started in Alien. And because of that, if you're going to do three-movie prequel, the second was always doomed in that it was going to HAVE to be hamfisted in its execution to get you back to Alien. I was also super disappointed in the focus on David as a god in Covenant. It wiped away a lot of Prometheus, and the droids have never been of interest to me in these stories outside of supporting characters.
In short, Prometheus makes the most sense in this franchise, but perhaps the execution shouldn't have been so open-ended and maybe could have been a bit longer. I feel the first 15-20 minutes of the movie were kind of wasted. I didn't want nor need every question the movie left open answered, but perhaps a bit more explanation about what had happened on LV-223, more look into the philosophy and motivations of the Engineers, etc. could have been hashed out. And if not in Prometheus than at least in Covenant, but it didn't happen there, either, because they essentially made David and Walter the center of that movie. Everything just ended up so disconcordant. Seeing Prometheus after Covenant brings down my opinion of Covenant even further. :(
BTW, what even with general detail are we supposed to have guessed happened on LV-223 from the little we get from the holograms? We are led to assume that the Prometheus crew set-off another mini meltdown by exposing the room with the urns to the atmosphere inside the Engineer base. But I'd assume when the base was up and running you had the occupants going in an out of rooms on an hourly basis. So what are we supposed to assume set of the emergency that required the Engineers to flee?
I think its interesting to PONDER how we get to Thousands of Eggs on the Derelict if we are to Assume/Accept that David is the Architect in all of this.
It depends how we look at the Prequels and what Process is NEXT!
With only TWO Face Huggers we have to maybe assume the Following.
1) We will be shown them infect Hosts and Introduce the Egg Morph as a route to Turning the Colonist into Hosts.
2) We are introduced to a Queen from one of those Face Huggers but i think this would not be the ideal way to go, where (3) would be better.
3) Using either ONE of the Face Huggers to Experiment on, or Experiment from the Resulting Chest Buster, we see David is able to Engineer a Queen. I think having some Black Goo could be a handy way to Engineer such.
4) David Experiments on the Face Huggers in some way where he can FUSE their DNA with the Embryos to either Create Hybrids/New Xenomorphs that Procreate via (1) or (2) or he Experiments with the Face Huggers DNA to somehow create more Eggs. I think having some Black Goo could be a handy way to Engineer such.
Regarding the Covenant Ship i think maybe it could be ideal to conduct Experiments, a lot depends on the Lay-Out of the Ship and ability to SHUT-OFF and Quarantine Sections... which it appears the Ship has the ability to provide this.
The Ship appears to be Modular in Design, it seems like we have a Frame with Certain Sections that are VITAL to the Ship which include the Bridge/Control. But the Individual Cabin/Quarters which i think are likely taken down to the Surface by the LANDER that Tennessee came to the Rescue in. And so David could take these down and assemble them up into Small Test Labs, maybe Numerous Sites to help with Control/Containment.
You would think that IF it is that David only wants to Create Thousands of Xenomorphs then LV-223 for Experiments would be ideal, but this takes him closer to Earth and with the Advent, maybe leave him less time to Experiment/Create his HORDE.
So Provided he has some Black Goo then indeed setting up Labs on Origae-6 could be the way to go.
I can see some of the influence here Certainly.
The difference being the Spores are Infected with the Black Goo that use the Spores as a Procreative Method to Create the Neomorphs.
I found the Neomorph/Spores a interesting idea, something else to take note of as far as Influence is the CONCEPT work that was Unused for Prometheus Regarding the Deacon and Ultra-morph but also Dr Shaw's (Watson) Chest Buster.
Had they stuck to the Concept and Early Draft then Prometheus would have had as much Action Scenes as Alien Covenant and would have featured Organisms that are a lot like the NEOMORPH it was still interesting to see these Concepts Evolved and used for the Neomorph.
But back to the OT
There are some real Sinister things when you look at the World, especially as far as the Microbiological level, especially regarding Parasitic Organisms, of which Fungi are.
Ridley Scott may be a Atheist but he does use Religious undertones in his Movies, the Hands Up is really just them Embracing their Sacrifice and so it does likely connect to the Cruciform Pose that people associate with Christ.
In the Earlier Drafts for Prometheus the Sacrificial Engineer had taken this Cruciform Pose as he was being consumed by the Mutagen.
The Pose is used in Movies usually to depict Sacrifice, and its interesting that the MURAL has this Pose which some assume must indicate Worship/God... but forget the Reason for the Worship of Christ in the Cruciform Pose (Cross) is because it signifies his SACRIFICE which is the Greatest Deed that he had done for Mankind.
The Hands Up could also be seen as the Captain/Pilots Acknowledgement that they are about to meet their Maker.
I know this is an old thread...but damn Ali that is one of the craziest "theories" I have ever seen. For one, Ridley Scott is an Atheist. Seriously doubt he would toss a tribute to Jesus. The "Hands Up" command was to keep their hands away from the controls, so they didn't accidentally hit something that might jerk them off their direct collision course.
I dont have Netflix, but seems interesting, you can see influences from ALIEN as in the AI Name... you can kind of see Similarities to what the Covenant Mission was about, if we considered or example that the Ship only had Embryos and Walter
So there indeed are some similarities to maybe what in PART we could had seen in Alien Covenants Sequel, Certainly in RS TV Show Raised by Wolves.
Having only seen the Plot i think its quite Predictable, we have a Robot that is Tasked with Raising a Child and informing the Child the World above is Destroyed, we then Discover this is NOT True, via the Woman who gains Access to the Underground Complex, we then see that Robots have began to Overtake the World.
The Girl would become Confused at this... who is telling the Truth, is her MOTHER different to those other Robots? I would assume the Robot (Mother) informs her that she is TRYING to give Mankind a New Start and is tasked with Raising a New Humanity.
Mother will inform the Daughter she is NOT on the same side as the other ROBOTS and is trying to Save Humanity, but later she would have to make another Story Up... Were i predict she would inform her Daughter that Mankind has become Corrupt and out of Control and Destroying the World and Each other, and so this Mankind has to be Destroyed and a New Dawn of Mankind Raised without the Corruption and Ways of previous Mankind.
We would then be led to this being the TRUTH... but then we get a Curve-Ball Sinister Twist that this New Mankind are to be raised as SLAVES to the ROBOTS who rule the World, but those Robots must First Eradicate Mankind from Above.
Could be wrong, but this is what the Trailer plus adding a bit of Intuition draws me too.... But then when i discussed quite some time ago about "What kind of World" Plot does RS mean/intend for AC2 i made some Intuitive Assumptions with that too... only we may never KNOW if the real AC2 Plot would have been anything like i had been drawn to.
I am Mother certainly seems something Interesting to Check Out, i will have to Consider a Subscription at some point as The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance is something i would be interested in too ;)
@BigDave Go watch I am Mother on Netflix is more or less the thing you describe.
"Not even David, with his melagalomaniac ego, controls his actions. Untamed by nature, unpredictable to humans, beings with minds caged by the rules of their society. Mankind is no pair to a threat like the perfect organism."
I think potentially they could have shown us WHY the Company would Pursue the Xenomorph if they go a certain route with the Prequels.
The Xenomorph so FAR is a Unfinished Project, a Work in Progress, and RS had said before that the Xenomorph still has some Evolving to Go before we reach ALIEN.
Ridley Scott said the Movie would be more about AI.... and so we could maybe Wonder if down the Road we see David does Evolve his Xenomorphs, but maybe also he Creates another Race that maybe has some Traits that apply or could apply to the Xenomorph (Humanoids with a Hive Mind) for example.
We do see that David has some Control of the Xenomorph, maybe he could Control it Further as he Evolves it past the Feral Stages... While on the other Hand he could Create a Humanoid Race that are Superior and have some kind of Hive Mind.... when these Rebel against David, he could Unleash the Xenomorph but instead the Xenomorph's that infect these Humanoids somehow Maintain the Hive-Mind link and are THUS controlled by his Creations (Humanoids) or Act Independently.
This may require David to then infect some Normal Humans to Produce Xenomorphs he could Control?
Surely the Engineers could take a Interest in David's Creations and WISH to Experiment on them and this is LIKELY how we would have got to LV-223 and then the Space Jockey/Derelict Event
If David has left notes or the Company Discover that David was able to CONTROL some of the Xenomorph's then it would give the COMPANY a Greater Reason to Pursue the Xenomorph as they could TRY and figure out HOW it is that David could Control them to a Degree.
The Franchise However shows us that they Failed to even Obtain and Control any...... Alien Resurrection they had came Close to Containing them but before any Experiments could Begin the Xenomorphs got LOOSE!
When we look at Blomkamps Ideas for his Alien 3 Reboot and some of the Concept Work released which includes Carlos Huante's then it seems to show a Company/Military has actually began to TRY and Control the Xenomorphs via various Experiments and Devices Attached/Connected to the Xenomorphs.
ULTIMATELY as you mention.... " Mankind is no pair to a threat like the perfect organism."
And so its a Futile Folly to attempt to Control the Beast.
It certainly looked like they had got quite far as far as what the Next Movie (Alien Awakening) would be about, during various Interviews/Press/Promotion Appearances between May-July 2017 we did hear Ridley Scott make a number of comments regarding the Next Movie.
He had said in some of them that they are WORKING on it right now (Script) and then he had also mentioned another time about its been Done and FINISHED, so there was quite a bit of Contradiction, but it likely meant as of the Run Up to the Release of Alien Covenant that had the Plot/Story for the Sequel Underway and that after the Release of AC that must have COMPLETED at least ONE Draft.
But we have to remember its RARE that a Single Draft would get the Go Ahead and so they was likely working on Re-Writes too at this Time.
At a latter point Emma Watts had came out and said that there is a Future for the Alien Franchise as she said its about FINDING the Right Story.
so it could be likely that the STORY for a AC2 was something that the Producers and Company Executives had not been 100% Pleased with and then with the Take Over Talks, things got put on HOLD.
So its likely that Ridley Scott and his Team had a Idea where they want to take the Next Prequel, but it could be that after the Project had been put on HOLD due to Take Over Talks, that its NOW a case of if those at Disney are interested in the Direction/Plot that RS had intended at the time of Alien Covenants Release?
"Great. Studio interference! Like that works really well!"
Certainly but as the ones who would be FUNDING the Project they are likely to look at what went WRONG with Alien Covenant, and take On-board some of the Criticism and even they can then make Mistakes on Assuming they know what would SELL.
Alien Covenant is Proof of that.. ;)
"Nobody is really free in This world. "
Thats a Good Point, indeed not very many do get 100% Freedom there is always someone in Control, some of us are more Lucky than others on where we Live. Its a Good Point because it relates to what RS had said regarding Religion in that it has been something that had been used through History to Control and used to Make War and other Atrocities in the name of GOD/Religion.
So in context to the Franchise, then Religion would be seen as a Governing Set of Rules to get Mankind to Behave in Certain ways, which we Eventually started to Behave in ways that UPSET the Engineers.
The Covenant Mission was a attempt to start a NEW a FRESH start on a New Eden, to escape the Rotting Paradise or Earth and the Various Problems this World Faces...
The Plot for Raised by Wolves reads Very Similar, there are TWO Androids Tasked with setting up a NEW Eden for Mankind by Raising Children (away from Influences that had lead to Conflict on Earth) but then some Incoming Humans come along with Various Religious Beliefs and NO doubt other Ideas/Ways of Life and its likely the ANDROIDS become Concerned on how these will PASS ON and Corrupt/Effect the New Paradise for a New Dawn of Mankind that they are trying to RAISE.
And Discover that this because a Difficult Task... as Knowledge can Corrupt Absolutely.
It seems pretty much similar to the Plot i Interpreted for Alien Covenant 2 and my ideas i then had for HOW this could pan out, when looking at RS comments and thinking so WHAT could this mean...
So i do feel that maybe Raised by Wolves could be using some of the Plot Ideas for Alien Awakening that are likely to NEVER make it into any Sequel to Alien Covenant should ONE see the Light of Day.
So INDEED i think its likely that IF they are working on a Sequel NOW or SOON then it could be likely a Number of Elements/Plots from the Ideas they had April-July 2017 would likely NOT make it and WHEN/IF we do get a Sequel it could be MUCH more about the Xenomorph!
Nobody is really free in This world.
Freedom is a mirage.
That's why i like the Xenomorph. Rules of society don't apply to him. He makes the rules. Not even David, with his melagalomaniac ego, controls his actions. Untamed by nature, unpredictable to humans, beings with minds caged by the rules of their society. Mankind is no pair to a threat like the perfect organism.
Oblivion is always on the Next corner, inflicted by a creation, an Unknown specie or self-inflicted.
We are the end, our end.
Hope is despair.
Great. Studio interference! Like that works really well!
@hox, they have a draft that needs to be worked, or, according to the new management-Disney, they, Ridley Scott and Scott free productions, have to bring to the table a new draft with a new story to be approved.
@hox, they have a draft that needs to be worked, or, according to the new management, they, Ridley Scott and Scott free productions, have to bring to the table a new draft with a new story.
I thought Ridley said the script for the next instalment had already been written, a couple of years ago?
It is interesting to PONDER who those 3-4 Incoming Parties/Players are, by Virtue of Ridley Scott not being clear it could be that the 3/4 means ONE party is connected.
So we maybe have TWO Different Parties then another TWO that may be similar?
TWO Human Missions?
TWO Types of Engineers?
Or could it imply that maybe Walter would accompany One Group?
1) What he had Confirmed is the Engineers are ONE of the incoming Players/Parties.
2) With the Advent Message surely the Company would send a Mission to Intercept/Arrive at where David is going.
So that Gives us TWO of the Incoming 3-4 Parties.
For Ridley Scott to not be quite sure about 3/4 means that ONE Party is either Very Connected or that TWO Different Parties will arrive together?
I think we also have to look at WHY the Covenant Mission was planned, it was a attempt at some Humans to Escape from what Kind of a World the Earth has become... to escape a Rotting Paradise so to speak... Would other Humans also want to have a peace of that PIE that is Origae-6? Would those who Organized the Covenant Mission send another Ship with Supplies?
So maybe we could have another Human Ship on route or even sent, and this Party is NOT aware of the Advent or what had Happened to the Covenant?
Who knows..... i would assume that a more Prepared Science/Military Ship would be sent at some point and maybe account for ONE of the Parties.
The Engineers had been CONFIRMED as ONE of the Parties and RS had said they arrive back at Planet 4 and Discover the Destruction of their World and they would want to FIND the Culprit.... But HOW?
How can the Engineers know where David is going? all they would detect is a Crashed Juggernaught, and its Hologram Recordings that would Confirm it came from LV-223 and on board was TWO Humanoids (one being Dr Shaw) this along with the Bodies of the Fallen Covenant Crew, would allow the Engineers to know that Humans had been there but then assuming Earth is the ONLY place that Humans are, then this would ONLY draw the Engineers to Earth!
Unless Planet 4 can Track the Covenant ship... but for how FAR?
Would a Engineer Ship arrive when the Covenant is still close by? But then surely they would Intercept the Covenant way before it arrives at Origae-6
Could they had determined anything from the Wreckage of the Lander or Equipment etc left behind by the Covenant Crew?
NOPE!
I would assume its likely that they Discover Walter and some how they get the Information from him, maybe drag him to their ship and get him to Point out the Star System. I would assume this is the likely way the Engineers would know where David was going.
So i think its possible the 3-4 Parties are...
*Incoming Human Ship to Origae-6 unaware of the Advent and what had happened to the Covenant/David
*A separate Human Ship more prepared that is sent as a result of the Advent and some of the Crew know about what happened to the Covenant/David
*Engineer Ship/Ships that arrive on Planet 4 and then off to Origae-6
*Walter taken by the Engineers to point out where David had gone.
Regarding David and the Codes, indeed he could have had access to some Priority Codes and maybe Weyland had some Default Set of Control Codes, and David had access to these.
I think ONCE he can Access the Ship he could then make many Programs and Codes to use at WILL. So he could have accessed with Walters Codes, or some Default Skeleton Code thats Embedded (but why would Yutani allow this?) I think maybe the David Codes could have been something that David had Programed ONCE he had Accessed the Ship some other way (Walter Codes)
But we could maybe consider many Conspiracy to how the Covenant would have had David Codes/Commands prior to the Mission Setting Off...
Ridley Scott has produced taboo, the man in the high Castle, the hot zone and he is producing raised by wolves. He produces This TV series, using his company, Scott free, and the resources are massive.
Ridley Scott can do whatever he wants.
Here's a link that describes the production of 'raised by wolves' in the city Cape town, of south Africa.
Ridley Scott has produced taboo, the man in the high Castle, the hot zone and he is producing raised by wolves. He produces This TV series, using his company, Scott free and the resources are massive.
Here's a link that describes the production of 'raised by wolves' in the city Cape town, of south Africa.
https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/economy/sustainability-takes-a-giant-leap-in-the-sa-film-industry-19197900
@BigDave, good points as always. In regards to Advent, it is interesting that he would make such a decision. It is actually a tad disappointing that it is revealed tp Wey-Yu in this manner. Such an epic quest begin due to the intro of blu-ray bonus material. Still, if he did canonically send that message (or one at all), then it just sets up the company being one of the 3-4 players that Scott mentions.
Oh and as for David/Walter mind, would be an interesting task to put that in an Alien movie. Two AIs battling it out in one mind/body. Still, I don't totally think that they switched bodies! I know its hard to believe that David could have switched clothes, cut his hand, and face in that short time. The other issue is his voice, which seems like the most unbeivable fox of them all. Even though they havn't really been shown as superhuman in the franchise so far, they are probably capable of moving pretty fast, accurately, etc. So the clothes, hand, and cuts are pretty easy for me to accept him changing. And that one code that he has for The Covenant is, "David57634blahblah...." I have come to thinking that he, being Weyland's pet, was given lots of access. He can probably use that code, or many others that he has, to get him into almost anywhere in a Weyland-Yutani facility or what have you. That is a slight stretch, considering the merger with Yutani might lead to some problems, but I would think Weyland comapny kept plenty of secrets.
I think another thing to consider is the TITLE.... i was reported that ALIEN AWAKENING was the Title for Blomkamps Alien 3 Reboot, in which case we could assume the AWAKENING could be about a awakening of the Xenomorph after believing that it was Destroyed 20+ years prior (Hadleys Hope).
IF it is the Title for the AC Sequel then the Awakening again would be assumed to connect to the Xenomorph but we already saw the Xenomorph Awakening as in Creation from Alien Covenant, so HOW else could Awakening be linked to the Xenomorph? A Evolution of Davids Creation to become more Intelligent and NOT Feral? Maybe!
Could it be regarding the Space Jockey Race (reveal another Origin) or those above the Engineers or Engineers themselves? Maybe.....
Could it be a Awakening because we will LEAD into ALIEN and so this is the Awakening of ALIEN Plot... but then this would be Tricky if Alien Awakening does-not lead Directly to ALIEN...
Could it be the Awakening of the Original Xenomorph (Wishful Thinking).
We need to WONDER what Ridley Scott meant by the Movie would NOT be about the Xenomorph and so that RULES out most of the above....
He said the Movie would be about AI....If the AWAKENING is about a Awakening of AI then this would upset a lot of Fans as they would think the Prequels should then have the ANDROID Prefix and not ALIEN... and so would distract further from ALIEN.
The thing with AI is what context does this mean? Ridley Scott in related Interview said the Replicants are AI so we dont have to think about ROBOTS.
The AI Plot could cover for example any of the below.
*A Plot that Revolves purely around David, maybe with him Upload his Mind to a New Body and the Ships Computer.
*A Plot that reveals that Rogue AI is in control of the Company/Ships and that David (or Weyland) played a Role in this AI/MUTHUR interface Origins.
*David using Multiple Synthetics from Spare Parts or effecting the Loyalty of incoming Synthetics on incoming Ships.
*The Creation/Evolution/Enhancement of Artificial Life, for example the Genetic Engineering of the Human Embryos.
*Revelations of the LV-223 Engineers compared to their Masters/Original Engineers (think Engineer Replicants).
This are all possible ways that the Movie could be about AI, and maybe ONE or more could be used?
But as i have said a lot, i am not sure Many Fans would want any of this and the Expectations would be that a ALIEN Prequel will have to cover the Xenomorph or Similar to more extent than say Alien Covenant did, or at least have them featured Half as much but Set-Up a more Xenomorph Heavy sequel!
I think maybe that could work, the Character of Tennessee does seem a bit of a Rebel, i would be inclined to think he would Trust Daniels, but we could have Mother Confirm that David is Walter, this would especially work if David has transferred his MIND into Walter on Planet 4 or he uses a Spare Body of Walter on the Ship.
Daniels could be seen as unstable and David could get Tennessee to take Charge and have Daniels restricted to Medical Assessment/Quarantine for Stress and Related.
So we cant rule out such a idea.... then it would have to be at some point that Tennessee does Discover who David is, and then realizes that Daniels is Not Mentally Broken/Stressed.
"No! This would waste the talents of two key characters."
Certainly and this is the Problem with the Ending of Alien Covenant, with Daniels aware of who David is, then he would have to think about his own Agenda and HOW this effects it and this depends on the PLOT.
If he awakens the Crew/Colonist a few or ONE at a time, where is Agenda is to Experiment on them ONE-BY-ONE etc, then it would not matter if he KILLS or keeps them alive.
If HOWEVER..... David wishes to set down on a World and attempt to Construct/Build a Colony or Buildings then he would NEED some of the Colonist and this would raise the following.
*The Colonist would maybe be weary if Tennessee and Daniels are DEAD, and so David would have to make a Good Excuse/Reason for this.
*If Daniels is Killed, then regardless of what excuse David gives you could expect Tennessee to maybe be Weary and Suspicious of Walter.
*If Daniels is kept alive then its a case of HOW does David/Walter convince her she must have had a Bad Dream, would she come around to Believe she was Dreaming? If not then INDEED having her shown as Unstable and suffering from Delusions etc could work.
I think Certainly as FAR as the Movie goes you would be better off to carry on the Characters from before, and Killing them Off-Screen or even at the Start would not be ideal as basically we saw this with Alien Covenant where Dr Shaw was killed off screen and Engineers via Flash Back.
The idea i had after AC release for the Sequel (Alien Ascension) i had a few Variations, but half of the 4 variants i had it that David was seen as a Savior of the Mission were it was suggested Daniels was killed by Tennessee and reveal that Tennessee was part of the Group who tried to Sabotage the Mission (as covered in the AC Origins Book) But Daniels was kept alive in some Dark Place where she is Discovered at some point.
When i was talking about this "For David the best option would be to take them both out! " I was talking about from is POV, depending on what his Agenda is.
IF he is going to just Experiment on the Colonist then he has NO other need for them, he can just Awaken them as required and so it would NOT matter if Daniels is Killed or kept alive, more likely he would KEEP her Alive.
IF however he intends on setting up the Colony as Planned by the Colonist/Crew then potentially Daniels knowing who he is would be a Problem for him.
IN HINDSIGHT......
The part where Daniels asked about the Cabin on the Lake should have been left out, while it brings a sense of Despair/Horror for Daniels, you could have revealed the Truth to her in the NEXT Movie. The Audience would know (if not already) who David is after Daniels is Safely Tucked into Sleep Blissfully Unaware of the Horrors that could be in Store... We then get to the Ending HOW we did with David asking for Wagner to be Played and Regurgitating the Face Hugger Embryo's
This would have left the Plot for the Next Movie to not have to find a way to Tackle that Daniels is in the KNOW. What we would have had is a BETTER Platform for a Sequel as Daniels and Co set up the Colony, Build a Cabin on the Lake, Happy while she has some Memories of the Horrors before.
THIS would make it more of a IMPACT when she Discovers at a latter point that David is Walter via some Actions he may be up to/caught in the Act of...
But this is what happens when Writers DONT consider how any Revelations/Plots from the Movie could Limit/Effect the Potential for the Sequel.
A lot depends on the Plot...
David can pretend to be Walter. He could claim that to Tennessee and the other crew.
Daniels will definitely accuse Walter and will ask Tennessee to take her side.
Eventually Tennessee must decide who to believe. To whom will he believe? The stressed women or the calm android? This decision will be difficult for him and he will make a mistake.
Tennessee may issue the following command to the mainframe computer:
- "Mother, identify this android, please!"
Then the mother computer will identify the android as Walter and will report his details (manufacturing date, model number, serial number, repaired hand and neck injuries and an intact system).
Tennessee will believe what mother says.
As a precaution they will revoke Walter's access rights to the ship. They may regret this decision later, because Walter (David) will not be able to issue commands, unable to reenter the ship and unable to fetch vital equipment from the ship.
Then the drama continues...
Walter (David) may reveal his real identity to Daniels later, but it will not matter anymore.
"For David the best option would be to take them both out! "
No! This would waste the talents of two key characters.
" The cabin story may have been in a file David saw as unnecessary? Oops!"
Indeed thats a ODD thing to Forget if he had acquired Walters Memories... but we can assume he did acquire them because HOW-ELSE would he have the Security Codes?
If you was David and had some way to Transfer/Hook up with Walter then with Limited Time you would maybe only want to Access Specific things and so Security Codes would be a Priority if your Next Plan is to Take Control of the Ship.
But ALAS... this could simply be down to Lazy Writing and/or just not seeing it Important to Explain everything or maybe not even being bothered to have a Explanation.
I do think as far as the Sequel... certainly if David is to Charade as Walter and Interact with some of the Colonist, then at some point we would see David being able to Interface with a Walter...
Because a PLOT Convenience would be if there are WALTER Spare Parts as Walter is a piece of Technology/Machine and if he is IMPORTANT to the Mission, then it would be SILLY to not have Parts to Maintain him in the Event of Serve Damage that his Regenerative Ability can-not Repair.
Because can we really expect Fassbender to play a ONE HANDED Android all Movie?
So does David have Spares he can Replace the HAND? are the Walter Hands Compatible with the David Model?
So this opens up the Possibility of there being parts to BUILD a New Walter, in which the Walter Model would then Transfer his AI Memory etc to in the EVENT of Critical Damage.
The Question then comes down to HOW-MANY such Spare Parts are there and HOW-MANY such Walters can be Built? But this could lead to Potentially David Building more than ONE of Himself/Walter or the Colonist/Daniels building another Walter to Save the Day... but i think we have seen enough of such Doppelganger Shenanigans in Alien Covenant.
But Ridley Scott claimed the Next Movie is more about AI and so who knows how much he meant by this!
"In addition Walter (David) can monitor Daniels' dreams"
I think this depends... with Prometheus it is indicated that this was done via the use of the Visor Technology, its a Question of is this Technology something that is Connected/Part of the Cryo-Sleep Pods in Prometheus, by that the Visor interfaces with the Cryo-Sleep Pod or can the Visor see Dreams of a Person if they are NOT in a Cryo-Sleep Pod?
So it seems that without the Visor, David could not Monitor their Sleep/Dreams etc...
We cant Rule Out the Covenant Cryo-Pods having some kind of System where the Synthetic or Computer Systems of the Ship can Monitor a Crew Members Dreams.
Anything can be made to HAPPEN for the sake of Plot Convenience without having to explain it at all. And so you cant rule out them showing David using the Dream Visor again, and the Writers wont even explain HOW/WHERE he got this from.... it would be just a Oversight/Plot Convenience.
IF they did this, then we could ask DID he recover it from the Prometheus Wreckage? We cant rule this out as a LOT of stuff would have been Recovered from the Wreckage or Life-Boat, and its a case of would Dr Shaw allow David to obtain the Visor.... then he could have landed back on LV-223 after he was put Back Together...
Such a Concept (return to LV-223 once Dr Shaw was in Cryo-sleep) could be used to obtain the Visor, could be used to show HOW it was that David learned the Engineers Ways, and even obtain a EGG lol
Or it could be the Covenant just by Coincidence has Similar Technology?
If they did introduce something like the Dream Visor again, its more likely they WOULD-NOT explain where it came from.... it would be a Plot Convenience/Oversight that they would not bother with (like the Egg on the Sulaco in Alien 3)
They just dont go into Loads of Detail in Movies so Ambiguity is what we get, they can explain more in the BOOKS because you dont have to worry about Pacing or Time Restraints of a Movie.
Back when we first saw it, I thought it was pretty much agreed that David swapped clothes with Walter. He still would have had to somehow get things like security codes and mannerisms. The cabin story may have been in a file David saw as unnecessary? Oops!
"It's not a regeneration or something like that"
It had been implied that Walter Can Regenerate, but there could be Limitations to that, in effect a Human Can Regenerate, when we have a CUT we heal but it leaves Scars sometimes, so maybe with Walter its a more Advanced Version of our Skin/Flesh Healing?
It would appear there are Limitations as Walter Clearly did-not Regenerate his Hand, and so the Regeneration must have some Limits.... i think it was the Book, where David also could Regenerate after Daniels Stabs him in the EYE?
But i have NOT read the book so i cant really be 100%
Regarding HOW different Walter and David are, you would expect some of the Crew would NOTICE any differences, unless the Prometheus Marketing is NOT Canon and David is Manufactured nearly the same as Walter?
We clearly saw Walter Heal from David's Wound, but then it seems David had Healed from Daniels Wound (under the Chin) so the Patching Up of Walter/Davids Face was ODD, but again maybe the Writers or Ridley Scott never gave it much thought and its just a OVERSIGHT!
We have to ask could Walter Heal from such Scars? If so would the Crew be aware of Walters Healing Ability and NOT even Question how come he appeared to NOT recover from those Scars on his Face (from Walter vs David Fight) a Number of times in the Franchise some details are simply not given much thought as maybe we are NOT expected to Notice and Hence they are Oversights..
So as far as the Movie i think it comes down to that David is David who simply just Steals Walters Clothes and Cuts off his HAND (RS mentioned this was what happened) or David had Uploaded himself into Walter's AI Mind!
I think either way you could ask HOW because of HOW LONG would either had taken, and it seemed Walter/David was NOT Far Behind the Escaping Crew. It could be Lazy Writing/Directing or Oversight...
But we also have to consider Pacing for the Movie... so what may seem like 3 Min on Screen, does-not mean say getting from the Cathedral to the Pick Up Point takes that Long, it likely took LONGER... Also considering that LOPE was Wounded/Injured and would not WALK too fast and that Walter/David could Run MUCH Faster than a Human.
@NTFS
David could claim that to the other Crew, but then Tennessee would likely take Daniels Side, for David the best option would be to TAKE them both out!
A lot depends on the PLOT.... David would NOT need the Colonist Awoken if his Intention is to Turn/Experiment on them to become Eggs/Xenomorphs... He would just awaken them ONE at a Time.... if we go this route he could maybe Awaken Daniels and keep her Captive some place.
I would assume that David does this, and has her Incapacitated or Locked Away, where he would Visit her over and over, because of his EGO... and this would allow Daniels to make a Return and having Daniels kept Locked/Chained Away could be a PLOT device that would REVEAL who David really is (to the other Humans) and his Attentions, should she be Discovered or Escape!
I know what you mean. It's not healing, regeneration or something else.
Something moving under Walter's skin. It looks like a "cap". David moved it at the moment of impact. And after a "cap" goes back.
I think it was implied that if his neck wound self healed, then his face scratch would too.
Walter's neck wound began to heal almost immediately. It is only shown for a second or two but it is easily seen.
Wait a second. Why people think about regeneration? Walter just closed the wound on his cheek, something like a lid or a patch. It's not a regeneration or something like that. He cannot restore all wounds.
And I think, this is not David's mind. Remember - David offers Walter a choice. And Walter made a choice. He take facehugger embryos and goes to the Covenant.
P.S. In the book, Walter can restore a whole arm!
There is still the matter of "Walter" repairing his face. Walter was self healing and we saw him start to heal after David stabbed his neck. Surely Daniels should have noticed?
Walter's body with David's mind
If this is the case, David can pretend to be Walter as long as he wants without retorsion.
He can wake up the crew without fear. Daniels will accuse Walter (David) for sure, but nobody is going to believe her wild stories.
Walter (David) may express his concern to the crew about Daniels' mental state . (Of course behind her back)
Walter can explain them, that she is suffering from PTSD and mild amnesia due to the previous tragedies.
He may also suggest, that the safest thing is to promote another person to be the captain of the ship. Everybody will believe the smiling Walter (David) and not the frustrated Daniels. Who would you trust? In an agitated human or a kind, professional, innocent looking robot?
In addition Walter (David) can monitor Daniels' dreams and mind activities during the journey, therefore he will know about the cabin at the lake and about her lost husband.
He will know about EVERYTHING...
