Comments (Page 222)

LOL why not!

Maybe by the time we get to the Sequel, she could also play a Character and by then Davids Hair has grown again and he has got even more CRAZY! ;)

"Weyland-Yutani wanting to tame a biomechanical killing machine that has shown repeatedly that it cannot be tamed."

Certainly seems more plausible, especially if the Company know quite a bit about LV-223 and how David had Engineered such a Creation.   We could maybe even Wonder if the Engineers had encounter a Ancient related Ancestor and had Re-Engineered their Bio-Mechanical Technology from it.

Another Avenue..... Regardless of IF David Created it or NOT!

If we was to be shown that David Evolved a Xenomorph (his or Ancient) so that it could be Controlled.... the Company would be interested to see HOW it was that David could Control them, and this would give them a Reason to Persue it...

Because if David had a way of doing so, then IF the company could discover HOW then the Xenomorph would be more Viable....  And Blomkamps Alien 5 seems to indicate as such (company finding ways to Control them)

Regarding the Naming then Indeed Gavin we would have been Expecting a Eugene or Edward but we got a Walter and so who knows if the Next Synthetic we see could be Gordon, we cant rule that out.

Regarding David the Back Ground is changed a Bit by Alien Covenant, and so the Time-Line of David Models from the Prometheus Viral Site are changed a little.

We have to then Consider one of TWO things...

1) How much had the other Models Changed/Advanced from 2-8? Because apart from the Hair its hard to tell even a Walter/David Apart!  So is David only David 1?

2) There are some Minor Advancements as things Improve between Models and Each Prototype has the Memories (Soul) of the Previous Model Prototype Transferred into the New Body.

I would be inclined to consider (2) and i think its likely IF we get a AC2 then we would see David Transfer his Soul into a Walter Model Body (if he is not revealed to already had done so).

I would not be draw to the Walter and David being created at the Same Time, its likely after the Yutani Merger they used the Same Room, but those beings seeing to Walter are Asian Ethnicity and i think thats a sure sign of a post Weyland-Yutani Merger.

I watched Prometheus Last Night...

I will come back to the Mystery Person shortly...

After this scene i watched the Briefing that Followed and in that Room were... Dr Shaw, Holloway, David, Miss Vickers, Fifield, Milburn, Chance, Ravel and Ford of the Main Cast.

With also the 4 Mercenaries (Wearing Black) and 2 Mechanics (Wearing a Green/Beige with Caps)

Missing were  Janek and the other TWO Mechanics

Mechanic 3 (Eugene O'Hare)

Mechanic 4 (Matthew Burgess)

Are the TWO that were Unaccounted for at the Briefing, the Guy on the Floor being seen to by our Mystery Person is Mechanic 3 (Eugene O'Hare) and so maybe he was being seen to by Mechanic 4 (Matthew Burgess).  Maybe this makes sense if these TWO Work Close together hence they was given Maintenance Duties during the Briefing.   You would need someone to be on the Bridge and also Crew who can Help with the Ship should any Problems occur while everyone else is in the Meeting and thats the Job of your Mechanics ;)

So the Mystery Person could be Matthew Burgess but he is only Listed as being in TWO Movies and there are NOT many Photos of him to Compare... 

In the Shot in Question the Mystery Person seems to have a Different Nose and Look Older, so maybe its NOT our Mechanic 4?

There are 3 other Members of the Crew who COULD fit the Bill...  which are Mercenaries 2,3 and 4 however IF it is one of those then they GOT up First, dressed similar to David and then prior to Breakfast they Got Changed into their Black Top Security Attire.

IF not then we really could WONDER who this other Person Was!

If the Flop Flops are a Give Away, then No Wonder our David was Upset that Dr Shaw would not Give Him any Loving... because she already Slept with Android Holloway LOL

This topic is getting so much hate on Aliens Gateway Station I'm temped to start a gofundme to get an Alien-Prometheus documentary made based on this guy's hard work just to piss them off. I mean, why the fuck can't people like, just accept the fact that there are Alien fans out there that are SUCH YUUUG FANS that they like BOTH AVPGalaxy AND SciFied? That they like BOTH Alien Covenant AND Prometheus? That they don't stand for divisive echo-chamber type bullshit and won't give in just because a frothing trash-heap of fucking morons are dogpiling them. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK MARINE!

I believe Geena Davis would breathe some fresh air into the franchise.  

This is, of course, under the director she has worked with before in Thelma and Louise.

I'll check out both the book and the movie.

Thank you for the share I Raptus.

"The technology of a biomechanical, programmable viral agent would be not only highly coveted and lucrative (we are essentially talking alchemy here), but would be worth billions, and would also be perfectly suited to developing biological weaponry."

That sure lines up with what is in the novels Gavin.  Weyland-Yutani reorganized once gaining the samples, below.  

Chapter 39 Communications

"To: L.Bannister@Weyland-Yutani.com
From: A.Rollins@Weyland-Yutani.com

Lorne,

It appears that the subject is substantially more aggressive than we had expected, or even hoped....

I believe we will be substantially closer to a fruitful merging of biotech and weapons manufacture...

The alien vessel and the buildings found at the dig site indicate similar-if not the same-patterns: organically grown synthetic life."

Year 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 260.

Great stuff. I'm still impressed that David performed his genetic engineering on paper in a stone temple room, below.

Agreed, madness is welcome.

Thank you for the link to the article setaverde and nice topic.

The quotes below from the article cite some DNA basics and how the development (enzyme acceptance) was different from other genetic engineering work.

"For billions of years, the history of life has been written with just four letters — A, T, C and G, the labels given to the DNA subunits contained in all organisms. That alphabet has just grown longer, researchers announce, with the creation of a living cell that has two 'foreign' DNA building blocks in its genome.

'We didn’t even think back then that we could move into an organism with this base pair,' says Denis Malyshev, a former graduate student in Romesberg’s lab who is first author of the new paper. Working with test-tube reactions, the scientists succeeded in getting their unnatural base pair to copy itself and be transcribed into RNA, which required the bases to be recognized by enzymes that had evolved to use A, T, C and G.

The first challenge to creating this alien life was to get cells to accept the foreign bases needed to maintain the molecule in DNA through repeated rounds of cell division, during which DNA is copied. The team engineered the bacterium Escherichia coli to express a gene from a diatom — a single-celled alga — encoding a protein that allowed the molecules to pass through the bacterium's membrane."

Thanks, Ingeniero.

Beautiful!

One more Alien film from Ridley Scott, please!

"Hovis has remastered its iconic "Boy on a Bike" commercial, directed by Sir Ridley Scott in the '70s, for a modern audience.

The spot was originally created by then-agency CDP in 1973, and was one of the breakthrough ads of Scott's career. It features a delivery boy pushing a basket of bread on a bike up Gold Hill in Shaftesbury, Dorset, then riding back down again to the bakery.

It has been digitally remastered in 4K by Ridley Scott Associates and the British Film Institute National Archive.

It's now set to a re-recording of Dvorak's "New World Symphony" by the Ashington Colliery Brass Brand, from a new generation of members of the original band who recorded it." (source)

I thought this was a wonderful way to view Ridley Scott's early work and looking back at Alien Day...I guess any big upcoming Alien film/series news would be washed out/cannibalized with the Avengers: Engame release on the same day.

Likely what BigDave said, but let us conspire...

In Prometheus, we were introduced to David, which we believed at the time to be a random name picked out of the proverbial hat that followed the unwritten naming convention for synthetics in the Alien franchise - Ash, Bishop, Call, David.

But with Alien: Covenants introduction of Walter it was revealed that the synthetics of the Alien prequels are named after the producers of the franchise Brandywine productions, who are David Giler, Walter Hill and the late Gordon Carroll. Which could mean that in the next movie Michael Fassbender may be playing a third synthetic called Gordon if rumors that development of the next movie is gathering momentum are true?

As for there being a second synthetic aboard the USCSS Prometheus...

It is my belief that David is the original David prototype, as seen in the opening to Alien: Covenant designed and developed by Peter Weyland himself, and that all subsequent Davids, such as the David 8 were mass-produced copies of the David prototype developed by Weylands company for the commercial market.

If the quotation in the OP is canon this would mean that the second synthetic was a David 8, with the prototype Davids name having been redacted to cover up the truth behind Project Prometheus and the fate of the USCSS Covenant.

However, it is also possible that this second synthetic could be a Walter. In the aforementioned opening scene of Alien: Covenant David is activated within a blindingly white room with a panoramic window looking out to a grand landscape of mountains and hills.

This very same room was also used in the Meet Walter viral video, suggesting that the Walter model of synthetic may have been developed at the same time as David. However, it would seem that the Walter model aboard the USCSS Covenant was an upgraded Walter model.

Going back to the naming conventions, it is also possible that that the other synthetic aboard the USCSS Prometheus may have been a Gordon model if David and Walter were manufactured at the same time.

"Lets hope Disney have the sameConfidence/Trust with Ridley Scott, and also think maybe Disney can come to a better agreement with the HR Giger Estate."

I forgot about Giger Estate.

But, yes, Disney have the money to, why not, buy the Giger Estate as well.

Ha Ha... i like a Good Conspiracy ;)

This is a EXCELLENT CATCH!

Who knows who this could be, it could be one of the Mercenaries or Mechanics.

Contenders are..

Matthew Burgess (Mechanic 3)
Florian Robin (Mechanic 2)
C.C Smiff (Mercenary 3)
Shane Steyn (Mercenary 4)

I am more drawn to Shane Steyn, but with the Flip Flops and how they are UP and READY and tending to others, then WHO KNOWS ;)

Certainly Cant beat a Conspiracy ;)

I can't imagine the implications in the making of a new alien film, now that gladiator 2 is happening. Perhaps Ridley Scott ONLY produces the new alien movie.

"Everybody, i ask you to forgive my Madness"

Madness is Welcome ;)

"What if the engineers had created androids before humans"   

AND

"That's why the engineer of Prometheus riped out the head of David, without hesitation"

Well that could be CLOSER to the Truth ;)

You see by Virtue of Ridley Scott suggesting our Planet 4 Plane Jane Engineers are the Originals..  and considering how when talking about AI he said Rachael and Batty were AI then things maybe are more clearer..

Replicants are AI Creation, just as Synthetics are, ONE is Organic, the other Synthetic.  Both ARTIFICIALLY Created and Intelligent and so the LV-223 Engineers could be basically the Replicants of Engineers Society, an so Created to Serve.

Before the Engineer TORE off Davids head, he Caressed his Head we saw PITY in the Engineers Eyes, if the Engineer was a Created/Engineer Servant then he could see in David a reflection of himself...

But if these Engineers become Rebellious to their Masters, then the Engineer would also Foresee the Potential for David to be the same and so he could see that David would be a Threat?

Maybe the Engineers had Renounced there ways, in relation to the Pursuit of Perfection/Engineering themselves or a Kind like this.  On ONE side it could be as with the Replicants (1).... to Serve... on the OTHER it could be like Human Elites Genetically Engineer (2) their Children to be Perfect, to have Designer Babies...  Eradicating all Flaws, making or attempting to Perfect Humans.

Imagine that...  giving Traits and Engineering Perfect Humans in terms of Superior Genetics, from Intelligence, to Physical to being Immune to a all Manner of Genetic Defects that affect LIFE-SPAN.

The Problem with this would be Eventually you risk Creating a Cast of Humans who see themselves as Superior and would want to RULE over their In-superior Brothers/Sisters and even to the Point Generations down the Line, that there is NO Need for Standard Plane Jane Humans.

So with those Engineers it could be either Scenario (1) or (2) from above ;)

The Engineers Renouncing their Ways..

This could be like if Earth and Mankind became Controlled by  Replicants, or Engineering Designer Babies leads to a Socieity of Elites who deem Mankind Worthless.

Then IF some Humans Destroyed these Freaks!  And Started Again...  they would maybe look back in Hubris and decide to NEVER play GOD and Genetically Engineer Enhanced Beings again. ;)

This is Gigerish. Disney loves the man but they just don't know it! 

That shows the Influence and Confidence they had at the Time with Ridley Scott, also he had Influenced some Changes, which was also to Persuade the use of HR Giger.

Lets hope Disney have the same Confidence/Trust with Ridley Scott, and also think maybe Disney can come to a better agreement with the HR Giger Estate.

"BTW, what even with general detail are we supposed to have guessed happened on LV-223 from the little we get from the holograms?"

I think it was a bit Ambiguous among other things in the Movie, so i would like to touch upon your Last Paragraph.

Certainly you would have to ASK for how long had they Experimented with what they was doing on LV-223 to then LOOSE Control... the Star Maps indicated they had pointed this place out 35000 Years ago, and so was this place used for the Same Purpose for all that TIME?

The Pathogen is some Pretty Destructive Stuff... surely they are AWARE of this, and have Precautions?  Hence its likely the Space Jockey Suits are NOT used so they Can Breath because well we see that Humans Can Breath in the Outpost and so can the Engineers (they even can Breath outside where Mankind would last 2 Minutes).

So its LIKELY the Suits are kind of like Hazmat Suits, they Protect themselves from the Pathogen, but also Protect the Environment to becoming Contaminated so they affect the Pathogen (i think the Human Crew with NO Helmets could have affected the Environment)

The Ampoule Room seemed to be Sterile, it also seemed to show those Urns had remained Unaffected, until the Humans with NO Helmets turned up.  Its like the Environment for some reason Prevented the GOO from being Active!

We see the Engineers attempting to RUN to this Room, even those Dead Body's we saw are all up against a DOOR to that Room.   The Engineer Head was Well Preserved, yet his Body was a Empty Shell (Empty Space Suit) its as if his Body was NO-MORE... broken down.. Gone! We could Ponder if this was similar to what we saw happen with the Sacrificial Engineer?

Dr Shaw made references to a Outbreak like she has seen before (Ebola) and Janek mentioned about having to Destroy a Complex on Earth because some Scientist had Split Something...  I think a lot of the Dialog was there to Provide Clues and sometimes is Overlooked as just their Assumptions.

But then we have the SOUND that Screech, and so this makes some thing they are Running from a Xenomorph/Deacon and we cant rule this out... its maybe a Combination of Infection and running away from something that Resulted from Infection... who knows...

Its just something thats kind of open to interpretation

If we go to the Earlier Draft, Alien Engineers then its more Inferred that there was some Infection that resulted in some Engineers being Chest Busted.  And some other Dead Engineers wounds from the Adult Beasts that came from such Chest Busting.

But i was more drawn to a Outbreak from Prometheus, however when looking at the Neomorph in Alien Covenant then something similar to that could have happened. (by that a Organism Gestated from a Nano Infection and NOT by any Face Hugger).

How did they LOOSE Control?  we have to ask if they had suffered Outbreaks Before, they certainly had Witnessed Creatures like the Xenomorph, Deacon and Neomorph and so they must have had a way to CONTAIN them.

This is one of the MILLION $$$$ Questions...

Maybe we cant rule out Sabotage?

@Michelle

Its nice to see your Labor of Love is coming to Fruition, I am sure they are Certainly a Interesting Read.  I think its interesting that there are people who can see the Potential that the Prequels had opened up, beyond a Franchise that just deals with the Usual Tropes we see from Aliens ==> Resurrection.

I apologize in Advance for what i will reply to you post between Yourself and WalterMorph.  But its just to take a Quick Look at a Interesting Element that would have been Dr Shaw and David and i am sorry if this may seem like a Repeat of something i have said before.

I think there is a Interesting Variation between the Characters, we have Dr Shaw who although a Scientist she is Religious as its what she was brought up on by her Parents and so her Faith is Important to her, she is on a Discovery to see if INDEED the Star Maps would lead her to Our Makers and Hopeful they are closer to her Faith, but what Revelations she had.  Yet she still kept her Faith.

She has NOTHING to loose and wants her Answers, and its a shame that we never saw what Impact those would have had on her.

David is a bit of a Different Kettle of Fish because Alien Covenant gives a slight different indication of his Character, from Prometheus we are drawn to him being a Servant but one that had been Assigned as Weylands Personal Assistant with maybe more Benefits (Freewill) that came with this, we see him look more like a Pinocchio Character, a Boy in Wonder at Life, but also Hurt and Disappointed by his Treatment by other Humans.

He knew he was Superior, but he still seemed to be Hurt by the Notion that he was seen as NOTHING but a Soulless Machine.  It appeared in part that he played the Role of trying to Please his Father but Ultimately knowing his Father is Selfish and Uncaring and that Once his Father is Gone, he can be Free.  He seemed intrigued by the Engineers and Discovering that Mankind's Creators appeared to have Little Care for their Creations too, and seeing the Engineers were MORTAL it must have given him a Great Sense of how Superior he Potentially could be.

So we saw Roots of Discontent for Mankind.... but this is where David and Dr Shaw could have had a interesting Relationship... David was brought up on Science and so does-not share the Faith Views of Dr Shaw, he may have seen Evidence to show that her Faith is a SHAM!

But then he saw the Strength this Faith gave to Dr Shaw and its a shame as she could have HELPED him find his SOUL.  And likewise he could have HELPED her when/if she discovers the Higher Up the Creation Ladder the Less Loving Creation really is. (maybe it would been interesting to Ponder if David and Dr Shaw could have been Better Creators of a New Eden).

With Alien Covenant, David was portrayed more like a Robot who upon Activation KNEW he was Superior and saw in disgust that he is expected to SERVE his Mortal Master and he had Resentment of this, while also some Pity for his Master.

Which was not bad... but i think if you Ignored/Never saw Prometheus and The Crossing then it paints a Limited Picture of David.

Anyway sorry for a Not so Quick Reply...

I just once again thing its Fantastic when people put a lot of Passion into Elements of the Prequels and Characters that are seen as a Distraction from ALIEN Franchise (Queens and Ripley) its nice to see others who see Deeper into what could have been (especially with Engineers and Dr Shaw/David), and Certainly i am sure your Work would make a Very Interesting Read.

What if the engineers had created androids before humans and these androids were the begining of the end of  the engineer's civilization?! The engineers had to destroy One by One, across the universe, and the last One was...the space jockey.

That's why the engineer of Prometheus riped out the head of David, without hesitation.

The engineer's androids were created to resemble with the One, the immortal and they have 12 ft tall like their "Christ".

My brain imploded right now.

Thanks @BigDave, for your enlightenment.

Maybe for the engineers, it's easy to locate the coordenates of their ships, because it's their technology.

It's plausible that the engineers didn't land on planet 4, because they didn't have detected any sign of life.

Everybody, i ask you to forgive my Madness.

@ Waltermorph

You may have noticed my observations further up this thread. There is a Ripley/Aliens audience which might feel there is unfinished business which the OP refers to regarding his parents I respect that even if it is a reunion greatest hits tour. But there is a slightly older audience and interesting enough all the feedback from people all over the world chimes with your views. What I found fascinating when I wrote a follow up to Prometheus is people immediately said could you do that for the movie because I didn't get that from the movie. So I did and what is interesting is all the points you made are handled by "Pandora's Urn" which covers the period of the 25th and 26th December 2093. 

There are in retrospect two errors in Prometheus which are Ridleys fault and probably the result of film making  pragmatism.

Lindelof removed the outbreak of Xenomorph's and put Weyland on board the Prometheus and changed the purpose of the mission. What Ridley did not request of him was make the creature connection clear and make the hubristic nature of the mission and in particular David/Sir Peter's relationship clear. As an aside if you have Sir Peter on board you have to do more with Meredith Vickers and you have to make more of his antagonistic knowing support.

This is not fan obsession about size, distance and all the other stuff that is recycled on forums like this it is about story and character. The stuff that makes people watch a movie, play or read a book.  

So when i wrote a treatment of the movie three things happened:-

1) The purpose of the mission and Davids feelings about Weyland were clear from the outset, what he felt when he was woken in Weyland's home is known to the reader.

2) The cause of the disaster is left clearly ambiguous rather than muddled ambiguous. The Janek/Vickers deleted scene and Ridleys "Seven Worlds" commercial provide the answer as of course does the fork in the road sequel but then it is in the movie just observational third person.      

3) The creature in Pandora's Urn is used as a plot device. Can you imagine a hapless victim with a psychopath looking on and the narration offering a hint of what the creature is. Well thats what you get. As an aside the lone craft and its cargo is a plot device in Regained, the sequel to Pandora's Urn and the importance of what we fondly know as the Space Jockey is HUGE. Ridley said in 2012 he was a brother of the Engineers on the Moon whose brother? 

So I agree with you the story could have been imaginative and yet make clear what Kane's child and the derelict meant and I know people would have found that satisfying but the real key is its important, but nothing as important as finding out who the real monster is and why.

That lack of clarity meant we were deflected from the real journey, the answers to Elizabeth Shaw's questions.

Ironically its art reflecting real life or is that the other way round. So if people want dripping water, dark corridors and someone called Ripley I am not surprised, that is all explained by the events of Regained. Remember what Elizabeth said as realisation of the essential truth began to dawn. "What if they are no better than us." What if creatures that pursued sub creation through hideous experiments on themselves using stolen technology to create their own hubristic vision are no better, indeed, but there is a chance of self awareness. "So long as they are no worse" and who said that? That gives the future a chance and after all David was aware of the great achievements of mankind the works of Michelangelo and Pietro della Francesca both of whom provided him with a sign post to his future. He knew were he might go ... given the chance.     

This is an update I've been waiting for. Thank you for sharing ignorantGuy and you're right...it did brighten me up. Great stuff.

Excellent!!!

Thank you so much hox and BigDave for the analysis.

Agreed...the movie isn't meant to be a sermon but the religious overtones are recognized throughout the film.

"Ridley Scott may be a Atheist but he does use Religious undertones in his Movies, the Hands Up is really just them Embracing their Sacrifice and so it does likely connect to the Cruciform Pose that people associate with Christ."

Excellent. It seems to me that Ridley Scott uses the undertones a la carte by choosing them to convey a concept rather than to evangelize.

"Indeed. Remember also that Holloway also made the same gesture as he gave up his life to Vickers' flame gun."

Great reference.  Dr. Holloway stated he wanted to refute all religion, see below.

Certainly....

Back in 2012 i had been drawn to a Theory about the Mural which in a Nutshell was the Engineers had been infected with something that Gave Birth to a Precursor to the Deacon they then either Sacrificed This Organism, or Experimented with it to Create a Hybrid and then Sacrificed it..   By Sacrifice they used the Sacrificial Goo to then make the Cocktail/Soup that would Genetically Evolve Life to take on Traits of the Organism in the MURAL.

A Theory that to me when considering the Bowl/Cup instead of the Crystal (from Trailer and has Originally planned) then my Theory made sense....  Months after we saw the Leak of Jon Spaights Alien Engineers which when we look at its Equivalent of the Goo, this appeared to be EXACTLY as i interpreted.

But then some Fans think the Mural is just to show the Engineers Worship this Organism and tried to Re-Create it and some even suggesting this was their GOD.

I think the Space Jockey has been something that Various Fans have different Opinions on, there are some who INDEED see the Space Jockey as a SKELETON of Sorts...  But the Concept for the Space Jockey was intended as a Suit or at least it was Bio-Mechanical like the Xenomorph... 

When i First Saw the Space Jockey it looked like a Skeleton, years latter i felt the same too, i had then seen the Concept in a Magazine by HR Giger and i was drawn to it being more a Exo-Skeleton, like the Xenomorph that connected to the Chair.   It was only since the Advent of DVD and Internet in most Homes, that it allowed me to Study and Conclude this was NO Skeleton.

I dont want to derail the Topic to the Space Jockey, but Concept Work by HR Giger did show Bald Humanoids in Similar Suits... So the intention was a Space Suit, and this is what Ridley Scott saw it as.  Closer Inspection of the Space Jockey reveals its not really a Skeleton, well not what a Skeleton should look like, if we look close.

But i certainly can Agree the Engineers may come across as Disappointing for the Space Jockey Race... there are a number of Flaws to make them fit with the Prometheus Guys... but these could be just OVERSIGHT.

*Slight Aesthetic Difference.

*Slight Different Proportions

*Size Difference (13ft* VS 8ft*)  * Aprox

But i think the Biggest Flaw comes from the Color... the Dead Engineer Suits maintained a Grey Color even though not as Glossy as New but after Thousands of Years they had NOT turned to a Bone-Like Shade.

I think also the Revelation of our Engineers and how they appeared in Alien Covenant has made some Fans feel they are just NOT really Alien Enough... that is compared to what Many would have maybe thought the Space Jockey would be.

Space Jockey Skeleton?  Nope.. you got think HOW would they look with Flesh Etc, considering the Bone Structure and it could look ODD.

Space Jockey Engineer?  Likely... but i think this would Disappoint and Fans not be happy at the differences being just a Oversight.

so i am up for the Revelation of another Species... one that would be about 12ft Tall then its a case of they are either a Race in a Space Suit (but make them Much Less Human) or they are a Totally Bio-Mechanical Being/Organism like the Xenomorph.

But its then HOW do you account for the Color and Degradation of the Space Jockey, surely ONLY a reveal that its been there for Many Thousands of Years..  like maybe Tens of Thousands or more would Fix This?

But we would Face the Same Problem with the Prequels anyway, as far as IF the Derelict/Space Jockey are NOT on LV-426 as of 18 years prior to ALIEN.  The Space Jockey looks like its been there for more than 18 years Unless its some kind of Skeleton you may think?

I think the Prequels have gone to a Place that is less ALIEN and less HR Giger Bio-Mechanical.... so i think we could do with going back to that Aesthetic and introduce another Layer to the Cake.

"if the Space Jockeys turned out to be a completely different ancient race, perhaps the precursors to the Engineers"

In a NUTSHELL.... i think this is the way to go ;)

But i think RS may have had a Different Curve-ball Precursor to the Engineers, one that may Upset Fans further.

Indeed. Remember also that Holloway also made the same gesture as he gave up his life to Vickers' flame gun.

Likewise the alien mural in the 'just another tomb' room also bore more than a passing resemblance to the crucifixion.

What I choose to believe is that the Space Jockey is not an Engineer - or David - or anything like that. In Alien, the fossilised dead pilot clearly had bones that were bent outwards. The pilot in Prometheus was nothing like this. Some fancy eco-suit that snapped into place.

Personally, I believe it would be much more fitting (and leading to endless other possibilities) if the Space Jockeys turned out to be a completely different ancient race, perhaps the precursors to the Engineers. The Engineers are clearly a religious lot, big on iconography. Maybe they dress up in funny suits as some kind of homage to the Space Jockey creatures...

In a recent interview for AVClub Tom Skerritt praises Ridley Scott for making Alien the "cinematic juncture" that it is:

"The A.V. Club: Your career was already decades-long by that point. What about Alien made you know that it was going to be the cinematic juncture that it is? 

TS: Ridley Scott. I was given the script, and I read it, and $2 million was the budget. They had no director or anything else, and I looked at it and I thought, “Well, it’s solid, but this budget…” I thought maybe it would do well, jokingly, but I couldn’t really wrap my head around this thing for $2 million. What I did like was that there was a woman—a strong woman that rises and does that with a lot of chutzpah.

I liked that idea. I’d done Turning Point, which was about all these difficulties that women had, how strong they are, and so that’s what I liked about it. But I thought, “Ah, I don’t know. I have to think about this.” But it happened that a few weeks before, I’d seen The Duelists, that Ridley had directed. I only remembered his name because I thought, “Whoever this guy is”—and I’m told it’s his first movie—“this is unusually competent filmmaking.” And a few weeks after, they called me up and said that Ridley Scott was going to direct it. So now it’s a $10 million budget and Ridley Scott’s going to do it. I said, “I’m in.”

Regarding this Link https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/first-life-with-alien-dna-created-in-lab/?redirect=1

This is Very Interesting, and the Engineers could have Created the Black Goo by similar, well in that its something they had Created as a Genetic Manipulation Tool..... or some other Species had Created this via similar means and the Engineers just STOLE it.

That Link is interesting because it does Raise some Potential Problems we could FACE if we play GOD, messing about with such Things could Potentially lead to the DOWNFALL of Mankind..

The other Potential to lead to that would be AI, Once a AI becomes Sentient and Rebels.... can you imagine such Experiments like that Link covers, and then these get into the HANDS of a Rogue AI Synthetic?

We have a David Scenario then..... and this is what the Prequels are showing us... the Engineers Hubris in Creating us and then Failing to Destroy us had lead to us Creating David who is then Free to use the Engineers Bio-logical Creation/Evolutionary Tool to Destroy the Engineers and then Weaponize it to Create a Horrific Organism.  That could then wipe out Mankind and the Engineers.

Oh the other Potential Downfall for Mankind.... Ourselves, our Ways, our Wars.....  which is likely why the Engineers abandoned us after the FAILED attempt to Destroy us...

They thought left to our own Devices, we would NEVER be able to Advance to reach the Stars and we would likely KILL ourselves off...  How Wrong was they!

I think to answer your last post would be easier First. We cant rule out the Possibility of there being more Engineers on LV-223, we have to ask would that Engineer had still been in Cryo-sleep as of current Time-Line of 2105 (Alien Covenant) had the Prometheus Mission not Happened? The chances are YES.  We know David said there are MANY more Ships on LV-223 and so to me thats not a case of 2-3 More.

So we cant rule out any more Engineers on LV-223

But as far as these Engineers Awakening and then trying to Pursue Dr Shaw and David this simply can not be, and that is because we first have to ASK how would they know that David and Dr Shaw had taken a Ship, i guess they could Discover some kind of Flight Log of Ships that leave.

Regardless we next have to consider The Crossing and Dr Shaw's Hair Growth indicated that she had spent 6-10 Months on that Juggernaught before she decided to Re-Attach Davids Head.   Then Finally David was on Planet 4 for nearly 10 Years, a Engineer Ship on Intercept Course from LV-223 would arrive about the Same Number of Weeks as they had awoken compared to when David and Dr Shaw left for Planet 4.

By that if say David and Dr Shaw Finally leave for Planet 4 in say September 2094, and the Engineers awaken in November 2094 and then Discover a Ship has left for Planet 4, then the Engineers would arrive at Planet 4 some TWO Months after David arrived.

I know some Fans would have liked to had seen Dr Shaw had interacted with some Engineers, but the Alien Covenant Plot did-not allow for this... she DIED and thats kind of that......  However that does-not mean that she NEVER had some Interaction with a Engineer

We know David had lied about her Death... she DID-NOT get Killed during the Crash of the Juggernaught.  So she was Alive for a Period of Time we just dont know HOW LONG.... and its Unlikely that David just Killed her for Nothing.  So she could have been TOLD that the Planet is Infected by Accident and so Dr Shaw has to stay on the Juggernaught..... eventually she may get suspicious for some reason, such as if David talks and gets Excited about some Life he Discovered... so she could then take the Risk to Sneak Out and then Arrive at the Cathedral and then Stumble upon what David was doing, such as Experiments on Surviving Female Engineers and Infants..

So she could maybe have tried to help them Escape... in which we have to ask what David would make of this... he could offer a Explanation, which Dr Shaw would not accept and then likely their Relationship had Turned Sour at this Point/Revelation.. so he feels Betrayed and decides to USE her for his Experiments as he was NOT quite getting the Desired Results with a Engineer.

This may have gone OFF-TOPIC... but to a degree it keeps with the OT, because we are trying to Wonder HOW can David create Thousands of Eggs.... and so if we go back to his Experiments its likely he Created some Eggs from a Female Engineers Egg Cells, but he only really got a more Successful Organism via using Dr Shaw's Egg Cells.

Looking at HOW the Black Goo seemed to work, well if you can Program it to ACT like the Sacrificial Goo, then all David would need is some of that GOO and those Face Hugger Embryos to break down their DNA into a Mutagen that passes on Xenomorph Traits, and use this on Human Egg Cells to maybe Create more Eggs.

You see David had got to a Certain Point with his Experiments with the Female Engineers, we have to Consider at WHAT extent had his Experiments Reached at this Point, to what more work was needed to get to those Eggs Obtained by using Dr Shaw.   If this was a case of just apply the same Method used on Female Engineers to Dr Shaw, then as long as David has this Method he can simply apply it to any Female... Daniels for Example to then Create more Eggs.

Regarding the Black Goo Bombardment, it appeared these URNS had become Weaponized to Explode and then Seek Out Life and simply Replicate inside a Living Organism while then just Turning their Every Building Block to like Stone.

Different to what we saw in Prometheus.... the Neomorphs appeared from Spores that were Located near the Stream that Ran down the Mountain the Juggernaught had Crashed upon, its likely that Mold/Algae etc formed near the Source of Water where Fungi could grow and these got Infected by a Urn or Few that had NOT been Weaponized/Activate by the Ship but simply just Leaked or Broke Open and so the effects are similar to what Prometheus had shown.

Regarding LV-223 then YES it would be ideal to a degree to had GONE there and use the Place to Experiment... and Mass Produce Xenomorphs...   but the Problem is the Advent Message... because the Company knows, and surely would investigate LV-223 which means it does-not leave David as much time to Mass Produce Eggs compared to carrying on to Origae-6 but then where does he get Black Goo?  Maybe he has some left on Planet 4 and Recovers some.

We have to Remember Once David is in Control of the Ship he could head back to Planet 4. Or he could have had time to Grab a Ampoule while he also had got the Face Hugger Embryos?

Regarding the Planet 4 Engineers and Paradise i have a theory on that, and one that TURNS the Purpose of the Juggernauts around.... in that they are NOT ships of WAR but Seeding Ships.  But thats a whole Different Debate, that is better Discussed in another Topic ;)

I will say looking at the Themes of Prometheus and what AC has shown and RS comments about AI and the Planet 4 Engineers being Originals...  Then the LV-223 Engineers are likely either a Sub-Created Version of those Engineers used as Servants... think the Engineers version of Replicants... or they are  a Group of Engineers who took to Engineering themselves to become Superior/Evolved.

Another new old route:

Alien awakening...

The engineers fleet, dorment in the soil of the planet lv-223, violently awakens due to the Prometheus events. They start a pursuit of the engineer ship, with Elizabeth Shaw on board.

Another new old route:

Alien awakening..

The engineers fleet, dorment in the soil of the planet lv-223, violently awakens due to the Prometheus events. They start a pursuit of the engineer ship, with Elizabeth Shaw on board.

I was so disappointed with the engineers of planet 4. For me, that engineers are not the descendants of the "One", the immortal and planet 4 is not the Lost paradise. It's like earth to the goa'ulds, if we think in the Stargate series.

Ridley Scott says that the engineers are the gardners of the universe. Yeah, i agree if they are seeding a planet with a new specie, but they are also destroyers of civilizations, of worlds, because it's in their nature playing God. The black goo is a killing animal Cell virus.

David knows how to spread a deadly infection in a planet, atomizing in the atmosphere the black goo, that consumes all the meat of the living beings. the engineers are destroyers and simultaniously seeders of life. From the ashes of the bodies, a new infectious and contagious life is Lurking an oportunity to see the light of birth. It ONLY needs a plenty Number of hosts.

I'm saying This, because David can use Neomorphs to achieve his goals of universe domination, while he perfects the mass production of Xenomorphs, in vitro or with a Queen.

The means that he needs to do it are the problem. Instead of going to Origae-6, David should return to lv-223. He has lots of engineers space ships and an infinite source of black goo inside of them.

Maybe, every ship has an engineer sleeping in its cryo chamber and David could use their  DNA to conduce more experiments and thus perfect the cycle of creation of the xenomorph and the xenomorph itself.

Regarding those LINKS....

There is a Nice Amount of Effort in this ONE.

Its a case of what to consider CANON... the Fire and Stone Comics etc i would not be ready to Consider as Canon, the Alien Covenant Origins Book is Considered Canon.

The ONE to pay attention to is the Alien Covenant Novelization as this does differ from the Movie.  it does add some Elements that were Rumored to have at some point been intended (Neomorph vs Xenomorph) but if differs in a number of things..

Such as David sneaking on Eggs and not Face Huggers, which makes more sense to me i guess. (Eggs).

The Big Question is regarding the Xenomorph Egg, which the Novel indicates that David had Found it as it was... HENCE we see David had NOT created the Original.

This HOWEVER.. is not indicated in the Movie and RS has mentioned that the Xenomorph is Davids' Creation.

I find it FLAWED in HOW it would be that David Discovered the Egg as it were...  WHY does he go through all those Experiments and Cross Hybridization if he has a Xenomorph Egg, he could just Replicate this via Black Goo.

David's Notes offer some insight to the Creation of the Xenomorph and seem to indicate it was a Engineered Creation from the Neomorph and then mixing its Traits with Various Life-Forms to Create the Perfect Hybrid... the Xenomorph.

I am not trying to make this Topic into a David Did-Not Create the Xenomorph Thread as we recently had ONE of those...

What i am suggesting is that THINGS are Subject to Change, and so they could give us a indication that David had OBTAINED  Xenomorph Egg.

I just dont think its something the Engineers would have Lying Around on their Home-world, they surely are NOT that STUPID?

So if they GO for this route/change then they have to come up with another PLACE that David had obtained a Xenomorph Egg from...   Do we ASSUME that after Dr Shaw was placed into Cryo-Sleep that David just went to Planet 4?  He was NOW Free to do what ever he wants and so he could have gone to LV-223 or LV-426 and maybe obtained a Egg?

This i feel is WISHFUL thinking....

IF they did go for the David Found a Egg route, then what they need to do is have David be shown that HIS variant is SUPERIOR or becomes Superior, maybe Controlled.. Maybe introduce a Reproduction Method thats more Superior a Modified Egg Morph maybe like i mentioned in the Post Prior.

So Davids Xenomorph can Egg Morph, they can Regenerate even if its a case of from the DEAD Xenomorph we get Eggs Appear.... and David is able to CONTROL them...

Then this would be a route that maybe RS would not mind... i dont think Fans can have their CAKE and EAT IT!

By that showing that David just Creates a Cheap Knock Off would not be something i feel RS would be happy with but would make some Fans Happy.

Having David Create a Superior Version, with a different Procreation, and that can be Controlled would FIT more with the Themes at Play.... pursuit of Perfection.

Then we can go about HOW these can be Mass-Produced in a Different Way and NOT have to go to LV-426/223.

By having Davids Xenomorph be more Superior and Controllable would Certainly Give Good Reason for the Company to Pursue the Derelict to attempt to Replicate Davids Creation..

Because ULTIMATELY by the Time we get to ALIEN we have to be shown that Davids Creation is NO LONGER available at least as far as within the Reach of Humanity in the Alien Franchise.

I think such a Route was unlikely... it is more likely that David created the Xenomorph, which has some Evolving and Ends Up on the Derelict and these Elements would have been shown Certainly in a AC3 if you would.

But things could be Subject to Change again... certainly to Please Fans, because if the Fans are Happy they would go and Pay $$$ to see more Movies and Disney wants to make $$$$$

I think as i said prior its Tricky in how we introduce things as we need to bare in mind the Alien Franchise.

In ALIENS it was claimed the Company had NEVER encountered anything like what Ripley was saying in many Surveyed Worlds, but there is always the Cover-Up and Conspiracy Element that can account for that.

We still need to ask WHY bother with LV-426 after ALIEN and in deed maybe WHY-NOT have gone back between ALIEN and ALIENS, then we have WHY pursue Ripley in Alien 3

A World that has become Totally Over-ran by Xenomorphs could maybe give us a Answer, and so while on ONE hand a Death Star/Planet of Xenomorphs would surely be something they cant MISS and plentiful Species to Obtain. On the other HAND... such a Place would HOLD a far GREATER Risk.

Do you attempt to obtain Xenomorphs from a Infested World, or from a Isolated Downed Ship?

The same applies with Alien 3, WHY go after Ripley if the Derelict is still there?  The Logical Answer would be that going after a SINGLE Organism, and one that is a QUEEN is less Risky than going back to the Derelict.

The Interesting thing to PONDER would be HOW does any World become so Infested?

The Alien DC Egg Morph route would indicate that for a World to have say 100 Eggs a Xenomorph (or group) would have to Egg Morph 100 Hosts and so you need suitable Organisms to Act as a Egg Morph Host.

The QUEEN route would be a easier way to have a World become infested by Thousands of Eggs, especially if we are talking Multiple Queens/Nests/Hives.

We DONT know what route RS would have gone with the Prequels.  David had said he has yet to PERFECT his Queen, which some could mean we are going to see the Queen, but maybe we need to not READ too much Literally into that.

If he requires a Human either Adult or Embryo to Obtain a Egg then in reality you would ASSUME that Origae-6 would only have about 3000 or so Eggs due to the Number of Colonist/Embryos.

One thing that is OVERLOOKED could be HOW it is that David had Obtained those Eggs he had on Planet 4, its indicated he Created them and Dr Shaw played a LARGE role in that.

a Simple Way to look at this would be Prometheus and to look at the Deacon, we see its likely that the Trilobite came about via the Black Goo (or Infected Sperm) had Infected one of Dr Shaws Ineffective Egg Cells.

Lets say David had contained Dr Shaw and did a C-Section and placed the Trilobite into some kind of Stasis/Container, then ONCE we have Dr Shaw Healed up, he could Repeat the Process Over and Over...

He could even just take her Egg Cells and Test Tube Grow them and Infect them.....

Alien Covenant seems to indicate that David had used Dr Shaws Reproductive System to Create the Eggs, and so he could simply Repeat the Process with Multiple Females.

And so Similar to what these Concepts appear to SHOW.

Another idea that could be applied is the following.

A Cabbage in effect Clones itself from Dead Material of another Cabbage, so a Cabbage could be CUT up into pieces and under the right circumstances a NEW Cabbage would grow from the Decomposing Material.

In effect it would be like Cutting off some Fingers and then watch them become a CLONE of yourself... i had mentioned this Theory a Few Years back on here.

Ridley Scott had claimed the Xenomorph can Regenerate, and that the One Killed by the CLAW would have Regenerated, this sounds a BIT Silly!  But its apparently a idea that RS had...

However what if instead we have a Xenomorph that is KILLED or Dies Off, will eventually Decompose and from this Matter we see a Egg Sprout or maybe Multiple Eggs appear from the Remains of a DEAD Xenomorph.

This would in effect make them similar to the CABBAGE.

We have NOT seen the Egg Morph apart from the DC Cut of ALIEN, you can be sure RS did like the Concept, and so we cant rule it being something that would be EXPLORED.

But it could be DONE in a different way to ALIEN DC

So we could see a Host is Infected and becomes a Blob of Mutated Matter, where Growing from this are a Number of Small Eggs.... these Eggs then Grow...

They at the Small Size could be HARVESTED and Planted elsewhere if you would.

We see Small Eggs in this SHOT and we can assume the Face Hugger Embryos had been Obtained from Smaller Eggs.

If David could Create the Eggs by Infecting Human Egg Cells and Store them in some way to allow them to Grow as shown in some of the Concept for Alien Paradise Lost above.

And we are introduced to a Egg Morph were a Host Decomposes into a MASS that has Multiple Eggs Growing from them, and we are shown a DEAD Xenomorph also becomes a MASS that Multiple Eggs Grow from, then THESE would surely be a way that a World can be INFESTED by Thousands and Thousands of EGGS!

These Methods would show that its NOT necessary for a Queen, but then it could also add another layer of Procreation to just a Queen.

I have a Sneaky Suspicion that RS may have intended similar to what i Proposed, certainly something i had discussed a number of times on HERE and i think it would Work Well ;)

Origae-6 could be like death star of star wars, but with Xenomorphs. The plan of David's universe domination starts now!  :)

Regarding the ALIEN looking World...

Indeed RS had intended to take us to something like this HAD he been able to make ALIEN 2,  i dont think we could rule out seeing Origae-6 turned into something like this, but i think its a case of NOT trying to conflict the ALIEN Franchise.

By that there are a number of Avenues at Present that get us to ask the Following....

WHY does the Company Pursue the Xenomorph via LV-426, certainly regarding the Plot revelations from ALIENS on wards, we have to ask WHY, if there are other Avenues of Xenomorph or similar for Example,  LV-223, Planet 4 and likely Origae-6

But these Avenues open up a Possibility to Explore a NEW Movie, but the Conclusion of such Avenues should be that these places NO-LONGER Yield anything and thus leaving ONLY the Derelict as the way to obtain the Specimen/Organism.

Another BIG Question is to ASK... WHY does the Derelict end up on LV-426, is it just a Coincidence that the Ship leaves say Origae-6 on the way to Earth and just happens to pass by LV-426?

So IF we continue with the PLOT that as of the year 2105 (Alien Covenant) there are NO Eggs or Derelict on LV-426, then its likely a Engineer Ship with those Eggs or similar does go to LV-223 where it either is heading to LV-223 or leaves LV-223 before the Space Jockey Event.

If the Engineers take David's Creation to LV-223 to Evolve and Mass Produce... then this would open up the Possibility that the Derelict is NOT the ONLY Ship to be loaded up... so this could lead us to another Ship leaving that Goes to some World and Unleashes the Xenomorph which we could arrive at this World as Part of a NEW Movie.