Comments (Page 242)

There is actually evidence in Alien: Covenant that David did not create the Xenomorph. This was brought to my attention in a Youtube video which shows that the novelization for the movie was based on more than merely a draft of the script and that a component of the Engineers having worked on the Xenomorphs before Davids alleged creation of the Xenomorph was present on set in a prop, which leads me to believe that its possible the assertion in the novelization that David continued the work of the Engineers may have even been filmed...

The above egg and its Facehugger are said to have been too aggressive by the Engineers and was euthanized, likely leading to the development of the urns and glass vials used to weaponize the Xenomorph in a more controllable and safer (for the LV-223 Engineers) form.

It is from this egg that David reversed the Engineers work, recreating the egg and Facehugger from the black goo he was familiar with.

Which ties into the theory that the Engineers gathered the eggs from LV-426, further supporting that the derelict Juggernaut on LV-426 is the source of the Engineers weapon and that there could be more Space Jockey Juggernauts with cargo bays full of eggs out there.

@ Leto,

This is, in part, the fault of Damon Lindelof and why he was brought on to rewrite Prometheus - to give the movie what he and J. J. Abrams call the "Mystery Box" effect, a technique they also famously used in Lost... that worked out well for Damon (-sarcasm-)

@ BigDave,

Ridley Scott's comments that the Planet 4 Engineers predate the LV-223 engineers makes sense and fits in with my deduction of the clues we have seen thus far of the Engineers. I have mentioned repeatedly my belief that the Engineers are merely primitive humans, so let me elaborate. First my theory/deductions...

Many thousands of years ago a Juggernaut either landed on Earth or was discovered on Earth by Paleolithic/Neolithic humans who were then taken to Planet 4 and offered paradise in return for continuing the work of the fallen Space Jockey on LV-426, to spread the Xenomorph; the humans accepted. The humans were evolved to their pinnacle form, becoming Engineers and a few were chosen/blessed and granted bio-mechanical augmentations that would allow them to interface with the Juggernauts and fulfill their part of the deal.

Fearing/respecting the Xenomorph the Engineers on Planet 4 devised a method of weaponizing the bioweapon (in a bid to protect the augmented Engineers), following which the augmented Engineers then gathered eggs from the ill-fated derelict Juggernaut on LV-426, transported them to LV-223 and began weaponization of the Xenomorph eggs, likely unleashing them on other worlds that were full of life. Periodically the (augmented) LV-223 Engineers would return to Earth to add to their numbers on Planet 4 and to sacrifice a chosen few to their weapon, testing it.

In time, the Engineers on Planet 4, having developed a civilized society (equivalent to bronze age humans, suggesting their artificial evolution was purposefully restricted to keep them primitive) began to view the part of the deal they had made with trepidation, eventually devising a way to alter the weaponized Xenomorph black goo into a catalyst capable of creating new life, rather than spreading the instrument of the death (the Xenomorph). With the LV-223 Engineers likely needing to be periodically draughted (accidents inevitably happen), Engineers that were more recently chosen to receive bio-mechanical augmentation would likely have been less devout than longer serving LV-223 Engineers in regard to spreading the Xenomorph.

Thus when the Juggernauts/Space Jockeys ordered Earth to be the next target for the weaponized Xenomorph, and with Earth being the Engineers ancestral homeworld the newly drafted LV-223 Engineers sacrificed their lives by instigating an outbreak of the weaponized Xenomorph on LV-223, believing the outbreak would decimate all of LV-223 Engineers.

2000 years later one of the long-serving LV-223 Engineers is awoken by his ancestral kindred; humans. Angry at the Engineers that instigated the outbreak for their heresy, upon realizing he had survived said outbreak and likely fearful of the Juggernauts/Space Jockeys, the last LV-223 Engineer hastily proceeded to carry out the order he had received 2000 years prior.

... sounds fanciful right, but there is evidence in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant that supports it all...

# Shaw and Fords sample taken from the decapitated Engineer shows that the Engineer was human, with Shaw later clarifying that said Engineers DNA predates our own.

# The earliest star map discovered by Shaw and Holloway was that discovered on the Isle of Skye, which was at least 38,000 years old (Paleolithic).

# The Engineers language is Proto-Indo-European, a human language developed and used on Earth 4700 years ago (Late Neolithic).

# With the exception of the Juggernauts and the biomechanical augmentations of the LV-223 Engineers, the Engineers repeatedly use Neolithic and Bronze Age technology - wooden flute, woolen cloaks, pottery bowl, pottery urns, the Engineer City, Planet 4 Engineer attire, etc.

# The decapitated Engineer, and his companions (as shown by the holographic recording in the LV-223 dome) were running to the source of the outbreak wearing their spacesuits/armor.

# The last ordered target for the black goo urns was Earth, this order was given at the time of, or prior to the outbreak that wiped out all but the last LV-223 Engineer.

# The Sacrificial Engineer was not an LV-223 Engineer but a planet 4 Engineer, as were the (deleted) engineers that originally featured in that scene.

# Advent relates that the Planet 4 Engineers renounced the Xenomorph, and discontinued their studies into the creature and its weaponization.

# The urns and glass vials used to transport and weaponize the black goo are both primitive technologies.

...Reportedly the substance consumed by the Sacrificial Engineer in Prometheus' opening scene is the same as that seen throughout Prometheus. The latter contaminates whatever it infects with genetic traits of the Xenomorph (Hammerpedes acidic blood, Fifield's originally intended mutation, Holloways uber-Facehugger child), which would mean the Sacrificial Engineer would have been seeding a planet of Xenomorphs, unless said scene occurred after the Planet 4 Engineers reverse engineered the black goo to create new life. Which aligns with the theory that Engineers are primitive humans and not the creators of life on Earth. 

Also, Engineers being a few millennia old slaves sounds more plausible than being billions of years old creators capable of seeding life that will, billions of years later evolve to have a genetic match.

I know BigDave will remind us of Scott's statement of the Space Jockeys being space gardeners. But compare the perception of a gardener from the perspective of a flower, and that of a weed - to a flower a gardener is a giving god with the promise of new life, to a weed a gardener is the harbinger of death and destruction. A weed is a plant just like a flower, but to the gardener, a weed is less desirable than a flower because of their ability to propagate unchecked without the need of the gardener. To the Space Jockey's the Xenomorph is the flower, all other life are weeds.

Finally, some have mentioned that the Humans on planet 4 look more human than both the LV-223 Engineers and the Sacrificial Engineer. From a production standpoint applying and maintaining the level of prosthetics used for the LV-223/Sacrificial Engineers on a cast of 100+ extras would have been a logistical nightmare, thus the makeup effects used were simplified. With a budget of $111 million, Scott could have used CGI to augment the aforementioned actors to match the LV-223/Sacrificial Engineers, but instead wasted the money on the needlessly homo-erotic flute scene.

Ridley Scott does still refer to the Engineers as Gardeners of Space i think unlocking exactly what they do in regards of these Space Gardeners is the BIG KEY point which i think any clues would help Greatly but this remains one of those Unanswered Questions.

This. The Main problems with prequels - they gives keys, but... as we all know - the keys are absolutely useless without the keyhole. And, as we all know, FOR THE GREAT MYSTERY Ridley didn't give any keyhole.

Well i think we have to thank Ridley Scott for his ability to get FOX to take on board some of the ideas he felt was best to go, and so he was able to get FOX to use more of O'Bannons Idea, and also to use HR Giger.

If they went with Hill and Giler and IF they also tampered with the Life-Cycle (that O'Bannon came up with) and we never had HR Giger..  Then ALIEN would have just been another 70's B Sci-Fi MOVIE!

HR Gigers Concepts/Aesthetic and O'Bannons main Story are WHAT gave us the ALIEN we had, i think we should remember however that Ridley Scotts influence is what managed to get O'Bannon and HR Gigers contributions included in the Movie.

I DONT think that Cameron's ALIENS is to thank for what we got and the Prequels...  IF he never made ALIENS then eventually we would have got a ALIEN 2 or a ALIEN Prequel.    I will say i can understand that Cameron's ALIENS did elevate the Franchise and made it the Launch Platform for countless Sequels and Novels and Games etc etc.

Without his ALIENS... there would have been sequels... they may have been BETTER... they may have been WORSE!  We can only Speculate on that.... But what is for CERTAIN is the Action Packed ALIENS was a hit, and for a Majority of people who see a Xenomorph or asked about the Franchise its Cameron's Addition that most people would associate with the Franchise.

The popularity of that Movie and what it brought to the Table is what has been the Spring Board to all the $$$$ that FOX had made from the Franchise over the years.

I am sure thats what LETO meant... as in IF we never had ALIENS, we could (or not) have had a ALIEN 2 that could have been In-superior and maybe Rubbish in which case the Franchise would NOT be at the Level is is today as far as Brand Recognition.

I will add more to this debate tomorrow..

In context of RS and Blomkamp... i would say Blomkamp's Leak of his Alien 5, caused problems for RS and what he intended for the Prequels.. i am not sure we can assume Blomkamp did this to deliberately De-Rail the Prequels... he certainly did want to Gauge/Test the Fanbase because he felt the Franchise NEEDED a more ALIENY movie than what the Prequels were giving.

I think RS had no problem with ALIEN 5 he just wanted to get his Next Prequel done First, so as that ALIEN 5 does-not steal its THUNDER or tread on its Toes...  He was protecting his investment of ideas into the Prequels.

IF we had ALIEN 5 first and it BOMBED!   then FOX would maybe have Concerns about continuing the Franchise, they would then be like, DO WE wait before Ridley Scott can do his Prequels... or risk making the Prometheus 2 NOW in light of how Poor ALIEN 5 had done?

IF we had ALIEN 5 become a HIT then maybe FOX would want to ROLL OUT a Alien 6 etc... which would delay the Time for WHEN it would be that RS can complete his Prequels.

Ridley Scott was having Problems with his Prometheus 2 they just could not settle on a STORY... Blomkamp shows his Alien 5 off, this excited more Fans...  FOX then gave Alien 5 the Green Light, RS became Producer and no doubt he would have Sat Down with FOX and talked about Alien 5  then Alien 5 got put on ICE while RS brought in more Writers to Pen what Evolved into a more ALIENY Sequel with Xenomorphs that was Alien Covenant!

HAD we seen Alien Covenant become a HIT both Financially and Critically then i think FOX would have gone on to maybe work on Alien 5 and Alien Covenant 2.

I know some may not like this.... but IMO i do think the Reveal of Blomkamp's Alien 5, the Praising of it by Miss Weaver is in part to Blame for the direction we are now in...

Had Blomkamp NOT leaked his ideas... i think Prometheus 2 would have been different... but there would have been NO Guarantee that Prometheus 2 would have been Done/Released in 2017 as they was having a Problematic Time getting the RIGHT kind of PLOT...

So its not a case of WHEN he should have leaked it, as in when does he WAIT?  and from his POV... why not release a idea, if he feels its what Fans would want... he certainly would not have been Wrong for the Most Part!

The Thing is IF they had Green Lit ALIEN 5

"You wouldn’t believe the secrets I have unlocked."

David Discovers the Potential of the Black Goo, or what it was once used for.

"here was so much potential on this world, Wasted by Gods that feared their own might."

David realizes the Various Life forms on Planet 4, could have had the potential to be greater if the Engineers used the Black Goo/Experiments from LV-223

"They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me. Creators"

This is tricky, it could indicate a reason for the Sacrifice to Create Mankind as seen as a Redemption of Sin, or that the Sacrifice to Host a Organism would Redeem them, in the Creation of something NEW.

"Beings that understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb"

This Wolf could refer to the Black Goo, a Organism Related to/from the Black Goo.  The Lamb could refer to themselves or Creations they would use to Sacrifice to the Black Goo/Organism.

"But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation. So I took their secrets for myself.”

We again have to wonder what is the Wolf?  We could assume the Xenomorph or Similar, but it could mean the Black Goo (and Organisms it could create) it could mean the LV-223 Engineers or even Mankind.

So its has Gavin said, this is so ambiguous, we have to look at it depending if we are looking at Davids Agenda as preserved in Alien Covenant, the Engineers in Prometheus.

Or Ridley Scotts comments..

I would assume the Engineers had discovered something that allowed them to Evolve themselves, and be used for their Technology, then something was Created from this which they Regretted and decided to abandon.

Ridley Scott does still refer to the Engineers as Gardeners of Space i think unlocking exactly what they do in regards of these Space Gardeners is the BIG KEY point which i think any clues would help Greatly but this remains one of those Unanswered Questions.

So a lot also has to do with WHAT exactly was the Purpose of the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus (Create Life on Earth, to show how they Seed Life on all Worlds, or was this the Creation of those LV-223 Engineers).

So its determining WHEN the Sacrificial Goo Scene was, and then HOW-LONG before or after did they have all this Bio-Mechanical Technology and those LV-223 Experiments.

The Sacrificial Scene IF the same happened on Earth would mean this was Many Millions of Years ago we can assume (Even over a Billion).

Ridley Scott claimed those Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals, and so do they Predate ONLY the LV-223 Engineers? or the Sacrificial Engineer too?

The earliest Cave Map to LV-223 was 35'000 years ago, had those Engineers been Creating those Experiments for that long or greater, and then WHY wait 33'000 years before attempting and failing to unleash the Black Goo on Earth?

I think the Franchise is so Ambiguous that i think we cant rule out or accept any theory really...

Maybe Alien Covenants sequel would give us the Answers.. if the Xenomorph is David's Wolf.... then WHAT are his Lambs.... the Covenant Crew?  Or any Engineered Humans that he would Create for himself.

This would depend on WHY those LV-223 Experiments?  Ridely Scott and the Alien Engineers draft seemed to indicate they was Biological Warfare to use against Rebellious Creations and for Protection against such Creations.

But there is so much Contradicting Stuff with the Prequels and Comments by Ridley Scott that its maybe impossible to Gauge what the HELL is going on.

So its Fun to Speculate!

"Fans of Covenant seem to believe"

LOL thats got to be a small number ;)  but i do think we could be onto this kind of path (HAD we had a continuation) and if we did would they address the Size Difference?  Here is where (sorry if this goes off Topic) but this is were the Themes of Prometheus could be at play, and Agenda of David as far as RS comments about AI (Replicants) how the next movie would be about AI and not the Xenomorph, and "what kind of a world" would David Create, maybe looking into the Raised by Wolves Plot too..

RS said that Prometheus was about ( among other things) Immortality,  now IF our Peter Weyland found a way to Transfer his SOUL  into a Synthetic, then in effect Weyland would CHEAT Death and become Immortal, but failing to achieve this he had NO CHOICE but to trust Dr Shaw and her findings in that Meeting our Creators could Guarantee him his Immortality.

David has ONE arm... will he play his role with just that?  So we could ponder that David could transfer his AI SOUL into another Synthetic thats a Bio-Mechanical Synthetic Construct. Or maybe into the Body of another being, be that one he creates, or one that the Engineers Create.

The Size Difference would be Problem... unless the Body David uses is LARGE.  But i think the Size Difference would always be considered just a Oversight... and well the Space Jockey had GROWN out of his Chair! (Plot Convenience)

As for Option 2, i dont think there is much Harm and to me it does-not Ret-con Aliens or the Space Jockey, especially if we look at HR Gigers concepts....    The Space Jockey/Engineers were Intended to be 12-15ft Tall and its just a shame in Hindsight that Ridley Scott did not use any LOTR/Hobbit (Game of Thrones) effects to make our Engineers 10ft and its a shame that Alien Covenant they looked even more Human and had a lack of HR Giger/LV-223 Bio-Mechanical Technology.

"but merely primitive human slaves taken from Earth and given Paradise in return for continuing the Space Jockey races work."

I think similar to this is plausible... certainly as far as the Engineers being Created or Discovered and used for a Sacrificial Purpose...  It really does depend on WHO is at the Top of this Hierarchy and their Agenda!

Then its a case of WHOEVER is revealed at the TOP, we have to ask WHAT connection they have to the Black Goo, the Xenomorph or what ever Organism it Originated from.

On one hand i see clues (Prometheus Themes and Agenda of the Alien Franchise) that at some point the Engineers or a Fraction had came across a Organism, and they had looked at its TRAITS as being something they could incorporate into their Genetics and Technology.

The Prequels could suggest a high indication of this... but this would certainly take the Origins to being FAR less ALIEN than most fans would like.

Introducing a Sinister Hierarchy and Agenda, and a ALIEN one, where our Engineers had STOLEN their Masters Technology would be a better route to take, was something like this considered?  Who knows what a actual Prometheus 2 would have uncovered ;)

Regarding the WALTER-MORPH.... i would not rule out that this was the explanation for how Davids Organic Xenomorph gains its more Mechanical Aesthetics...

ELDEN in Fire and Stone was a Synthetic Construct and got infected with the Black Goo, so we cant rule out the reveal that WALTER or another incoming Synthetic are Part Organic/Part Synthetic

We have to remember David just needs to Perfect his Queen, and some may think we are going to get a Queen Xenomorph?  Maybe that could not be the case.

Maybe they can use some unused concepts.. even if they are NOT from the movies...  my Alien: Ascension/Absolution which was my work in Progress Alien Covenant 2/3 was to run with the unused ELDEN concept which was a Female at First!

"the fact remains that the Space Jockey is not an Engineer"

I think this is a subject for some debate, its something people could counter argue with the Flaws we have seen, as you had indicated, the Size and Proportions are OFF, regarding the Indo-European i think this is something we can maybe overlook, because the Engineers Writing Systems (we saw THREE kinds) could show the Engineers use Various Languages.  Ridley Scott had indicated the Engineers are the SPACE JOCKEY.. but until we have any Conclusion to the Prequels, then this is something to counter argue against Ridley Scott and could be CHANGED.

"and the Xenomorph lifecycle that David "created" is shown in the urn room"

I think again its one of those things to debate, i see NO evidence of Xenomorph in Prometheus but clues to something that is connected, the Mural Organism is NOT quite a Xenomorph, the Life-Cycle and Face Huggers would appear to indicate  that Various Forms of Face Hugger Experiments were used until they obtained the Desired Result in the Mural...   The Egg was shown, but it was so brief it was easily missed and never clear, HOWEVER.. the Creature holding the Egg does not have its Head Shown and its Arms/Hands are the same as the Fresco Organism with the the Engineer.  When taking Alien Engineers into context as a Rosetta Stone, i feel we are shown that the Engineers Encountered a Organism they had then Experimented on to Produce the Xenomorph (at that time of Prometheus), but it appeared they changed the idea to David... its a case of will we continue this path?  The Novel did indicate David had found a Egg as it stood.. but this was ADF's own interpretation of one of the Drafts he had to work with.... we have to WONDER was this a Wild Interpretation or was their any Actual Proof in the Drafts that Lead him to this Direction, or had someone working on the Project had indicated such to him?

A Good point could be that NONE objected and the indication in the NOVEL had not been Redacted/Changed by FOX.

Regarding the Introduction of the Space Jockey as another Race, or even as a Prior Slave to another Race, and the comments regarding this GAVIN... i think something like this would be a ideal route to explore.

"the ship safety systems when carrying such dangerous cargo "

Good Points daliens, you have to ask about WHAT Safeguards was there, a lot comes down to HOW Exactly did the whole incident happen and WHERE the Cargo was (Separate Hold or on the Ship).  We could raise the same points with the LV-223 Outbreak too! (Safegaurds)

The Engineers were either NOT that wise... or we could ponder Sabotage?

Excellent Point about the Face Hugger,  how would ONE get loose... the Only Conclusion i could give for the Space Jockey Fate, would be he detected a Problem and he went to Investigate, (Maybe one of the Fields was down) and he then took a Fall into the Egg Cargo, his Mask Came Off and he awoke  seeing enough Evidence to know he was infected and then rushed to the Pilot Chair to Quarantine the Ship/Cargo.  This assumes however the Eggs where already on the Ship/Cargo Hold and the Space Jockey was ALONE.

Then we would have to ask about the HOLE...  so a lot comes down to HOW do the Eggs become activated, it appears that the presence of a Organism works, but also Touch!  So how would one get loose, and end up in the Pilot Room is a Good Question?

We could speculate had the Space Jockey Grabbed and Crushed/Wounded the Chest Buster, but then his Hands where on the Pilot Controls, so he could have been Chest Busted on his Final Approach,  Held his Hands over the area of the Chest, and Grabbed the Chest Buster and Killed/Wounded it, then resumed to grab the controls.

But that would assume the event (Chest Busting) is something the Pilot could Survive for a Short While! (not such a Plot Hole for a Synthetic Pilot... but please NO).

Could the Chest Buster had no-where to go and died and its body Decomposed and Melted through the Floor?   Unlikely as the Nostromo Crew managed to enter and reach the Pilot Room, we have to assume a Chest Buster would have been able to escape that Room too.

@Gavin

Certainly things are subject to change...  i mean 5 years ago we can safely assume the Android Creates the Xenomorph and thus NO Eggs on LV-426 certainly more than 18 years prior to ALIEN is a Plot that was not conceived at this time... it was  considered a Ancient Event.

I think you raise a GREAT point about the Eggs, and Queen laid them.... maybe but certainly NOT as far as the Space Jockey Chest Buster was a Queen.  So indeed i think we have to look at the Blue Myst, it was there for a Reason and i think Regardless of the Reveal of the Eggs Origins... they would have to had been deliberately placed in that Cargo Hold prior to the Space Jockey's Mission

Happy Easter Guys and Girls!

(8)

Lmao

It follows...one my favorite movies in recent years. Sphere is decent,though my brother days it's not quite on par with the book. The Descent is one of the best creature flicks of all time. Signs is very underappreciated.

Now here is where I get obvious with movies. The Fly and Fly 2(pretty underrated this one) Both in the same spirit as Alien being body horror. Blade Runner and Blade Runner 2049,they need no explanation lol. Total Recall,Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusset had the rights to this before they did Alien. They put it on hold because they felt visual effects of the 70's weren't up to par for their vision of the film. Also my favorite Mars film bar none(I'll be honest...I was underwhelmed and disappointed by The Martian lol....)

@ chli,

That quote is unfortunately so ambiguous it can be interpreted in many ways.

"Sacrifice cleansed them of their sins"...

# They sacrificed themselves to give birth to their god; the Xenomorph, thus cleansing themselves of any perceived sin in life, or

# They sacrificed themselves to create life (Prometheus opening scene) instead of death (weaponized black goo) thus cleansing their sins of having once created said death, or

#The Engineers on LV-223 sacrificed themselves by instigating the breakout 2000 years ago, to cleanse themselves of weaponizing the Xenomorph that was to be used against Earth.

"Banish the wolf, and undo their creation"...

# Abandon their weaponization of the black goo turning it into the substance the sacrificial Engineer consumed, or

 # Abandon the Xenomorph and reduce it to its core elements; the black goo

There could be other interpretations, but I think you get my point. Remember, one's truth is dictated by one's point of view.

@daliens,

Sorry forgot about this one.

"if the vessel was so advanced, why did she still need a primitive human as pilot, especially if the pilot was not the father or the mother of the offsprings? We have autonomous vehicles today and our space missions are without pilots."

Simple answer - control. If the Juggernauts are indeed sentient and/or living vessels as many of us believe, then would they trust such an autonomous vessel with the task of transporting the last remnants of your race, or the universes deadliest biological weapon. Most autonomous drones in use today, of which space missions could also be included are used for observation and the collection of data. However, despite that Predator Drones could be autonomously controlled they are still remote piloted by human pilots.

On the subject of whether or not the Space Jockey is a suit or a skeleton. If it is the latter we are pretty restricted to what Dark Horse comics called the Mala'kak...

However, if what we saw is, in fact, a suit, what is within can be almost anything. Which from a creative standpoint is much more interesting.

@ ignorantGuy,

An interesting theory, but from what we have seen from the synthetics David, Ash, Bishop, and Call, one could argue that your theory is unlikely because no other synthetics were part-organic, except if you subscribe to the theory that the "Bishop" that arrived on Fiorina 161 was a Bishop II synthetic as opposed to the human Michael Bishop.

However, there is another possibility that actually supports Walter being part organic, although it is conjecture. With the possible exception of the aforementioned Bishop, Walter and David are the first known examples of physically identical synthetics in an Alien movie. It could be, and this is a theory, that when Weyland-Yutani picked up the signal sent by David/Shaw, or possibly even the advent signal, they purposefully sent the USCSS Covenant with a Walter onboard in that direction. It's even possible the neutrino burst was the company's doing. David would see the Covenant as a present from the company after he sent the advent signal. However, wanting the Xenomorph for themselves and to cross David because of his threats against mankind, they send an upgraded David unit, AKA Walter, who unknown even to Walter has organic components. Being an upgrade the company hope that Walter will kill David, but as a contingency plan should Walter fail, and considering in such an instance David would swap bodies with Walter he would unknowingly be at risk of falling foul to his alleged creation.

@chli Well we know that someone loses his right over his own DNA if he fails to pay for his Walter unit and it is highly likely that David swapped bodies with Walter. So if Walter is partly organic the hugging is doable.

As for #3, besides how David would fit in the huge space suit and helmet, how would he attract a facehugger? At least so far, David's eggs have only triggered (opened) when humans (living, biological organisms) have come near them (Oram, Cole). They have ignored David.

Here are the three schools of thought regards the Space Jockey, although for each there are variations...

#1 - The Space Jockey is an ancient alien that while transporting the eggs fell victim to its own Cargo, landed on LV-426 and initiated beacon before birthing the Chestburster.

#2 - The Space Jockey is an Engineer whose fate is shared with the Space Jockey of #1.

#3 - The Space Jockey is David, who despite leaving Planet 4 aboard the USCSS Covenant somehow (LV-223 maybe) morphs the 2000+ colonists of the Covenant into eggs (the black goo maybe) planting them aboard a Juggernaut. Then, despite being Synthetic falls victim to one of the eggs, forcing David to land on LV-426, whereby he then births a Chestburster.

Fans of Covenant seem to believe that #3 is the most likely direction the next Alien movie will take. I think it goes without saying that this would divide/fracture the fandom even further, and could damage the franchise irrecoverably.

Prometheus suggested although Covenant seemed to undo this, the possibility of #2. However, the retconning of the Aliens and the Space Jockeys origins created and widened the division in the fandom. Although not as damaging as #3, if #2 was chosen a lot of the fandom would lose faith in the future of the franchise.

While some may call it wishful thinking #1 is the direction that would appease most of the fandom and go a long way to repairing the division and loss of faith among the fandom the prequels have generated.

However, the issue with having The Space Jockey retain its alien nature is that this would mean that the Engineers are not the advanced alien race many assume them to be. Yet, I believe this can be answered from evidence in the prequels that the Engineers are not an advanced alien race but merely primitive human slaves taken from Earth and given Paradise in return for continuing the Space Jockey races work.

Of course, this begs the question of why would beg the question as to why the Space Jockeys were transporting the eggs, and why they would to use said eggs against other lifeforms. Are the Space Jockeys part of the Xenomorph race, and ensuring their races continued existence or did they create the Alien as an elaborate form of terraformation".

There are some differences between the two Juggernauts, besides the cryopods, there is the system to release the bombs, unnecessary for the derelict, so one might be the bomber type, the other one, the military cargo carrier type, like these two:

The shape of the hold allows space for the cockpit to be lowered down, like in this schematic done by BigDave:

Here’s a quotation from “Advent” which suggests that the engineers created the xenomorph (the wolf) through “sacrifice” (murder) of engineers or humans. Later on, however, they abandon this horrible ritual and become the more simple and peace-loving engineers we see on Planet 4 - who David detests and exterminates.

“You wouldn’t believe the secrets I have unlocked. There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might. They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me. Creators. Beings that understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb. But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation. So I took their secrets for myself.”

daliens

I believe Giler's twist to the story, introducing an android and the evil Company, made the film better

Completely agree with this. But it was literally ONE good thing form Giler. In all other levels he ruined franchise. Alien3 for example. You may not agree, but ask Fincher - he refused the film, because it's a studio project. He also say: give me money and I will shoot another Alien 3.

Btw, I like the crab walk. :) Really alien stuff.

Ridley Scott said the beast is cooked

Words of offended boy, nothing more.

Gavin

I agree with your words. I think, first of all, we should all honest. Without Cameron's ALIENS we would not be here. Because there would be no franchise. There would be no Prometheus.

It would be nice to get the announcement of the Aliens 2 on the Alien Day.

Regarding the space jockey and his fate, it seems likely (although the size isn’t right) that it’s supposed to be an engineer because of the likeness with the engineer in Prometheus. This engineer also raps himself up in the pilot chair of the juggernaut by the pyramid mound.

It seems probable that the space jockey left the pilot chair and went down into the cargo hold for some reason, got face hugged and when he woke up went up into the pilot chair again. Once there, the chestburster starts to make its way out and the pilot sets the warning beacon.

However, underneath the space jockey there must be a hollow space for the whole cockpit to be lowered down into. Also, the iris door must have room for the shutters to retract into. It seems that the hole should be further out, doesn’t it?

You're right, Gavin.

I'm sorry I got over excited about my theories, they are indeed only speculations.

Unfortunately,  with Alien Day less than a week away, I don't have any feeling that we'll get any news from Fox, not a teaser, not a press conference announced, zippo!

That's very frustrating. 

Unless the Space Jockeys fate is shown in a future installment of the franchise, which might never happen, we could each argue our own theories until we are blue in the face. I could point out that the Facehuggers saliva would need to be variable, using weaker doses to subdue and access protected hosts (like Kane) with stronger doses to defend itself from possible predators.

There are also those that believe the hole in the platform was made by the Alien that birthed from the Space Jockey, and that Alien matured into a Queen and laid all of the eggs. Since Alien: Covenant there are some that now believe David becomes the Space Jockey and the Covenants colonists become the eggs. And chances are those that believe either of these or any other theory could debate with evidence as to why they believe their theory over and above any other.

This is speculation. There are some communities were members argue needlessly as to who is right and who is wrong, without realizing that everyone and no-one are both and neither. What I have always loved about our community, and why I have remained here for nearly eight years is that the Scified community understand this, and for the most part we can not only debate civilly but grow and adapt our theories over time from the assertions of others.

But, back to the topic in hand.

With Scott's prequels continuing to divide the fanbase, and because they seem to be, from Scott's comments, moving further away from the mythology of the Alien and toward chronicling David as a synthetic Lucifer, I still believe that Neill Blomkamp should make the next Alien movie, but that he should remove Ripley, Hicks, and Newt, and should focus the narrative toward Weyland-Yutani finally acquiring their prize only for the eggs, the subsequent birth Aliens being corrupted.

A very nice graphic novel, Gavin!

In This link you can watch the making of Prometheus, part 1.

https://youtu.be/O-MP4-Wu1Ec

Thanks, setaverde.

Glad to see more Ridley Scott fans around here.

Thank for the link to the graphic novel, Gavin, beautiful work!

I agree with you that David did not create the xenomorph,  at least he is not responsible for the eggs from LV426.

Regarding the Space Jockey's fate, I have some issues with the theory that the hole in the floor was created from the hold to the pilot chamber:

- the ship safety systems when carrying such dangerous cargo would not allow the facehuggers to walk freely through the vessel. For any failure of said safety systems the pilot would be warned and the back up systems activated. If we assume the pilot was ambushed while relaxing in his chair by a rogue facehugger, it means that ship was totally inadequate for the carriage of such cargo and the Engineers were bloody idiots that deserved their fate (so agree with David).

- I never perceived the facehuggers as being intelligent, they seem to act instinctively and usually leave the safety of the egg when they sense some host nearby, they have to be like that, for the highest rate of success of the xenomorph reproduction, otherwise facehuggers would roam randomly and die prematurely without accomplishing their mission. We've seen rogue facehuggers but only after an egg opened to a host, we could presume that the presence of a host can activate more facehuggers in a certain cache of eggs. To believe that a single facehugger voluntarily left the egg and made a hole in the ceiling of the hold, exactly where the pilot stood, would imply they possess the capacity to make an elaborate plan for their actions. 

- a facehugger would not make such a big hole through the deck by spitting on the ceiling, he would not need so much space to crawl into the pilot chamber and when I try to mentally picture such an action, a facehugger spitting randomly at the walls and ceiling, I find it rather amusing. Why would he do that? On the other hand, if we imagine an injured facehugger in a pool of acid blood on deck, the hole it would make would be considerably bigger, of course with the risk to penetrate the outer hull of the ship below, but since the ship crash landed, it leaves room for that damage to have occured shortly before the impact with the ground.

- the facehugger indeed melted through Kane's visor, but Kane was not harmed by acid at all, so probably that saliva was not as destructive as its blood and it all happened in a controlled manner, only the visor was damaged. If its saliva was as corrosive as its blood, it would have probably been lethal for the host and it would have defeated the purpose. So, could that saliva make a hole through a deck?

- in Alien3 there is some liquid spilling from the egg, it could have been that liquid responsible for the melting of styrofoam or plastic? Or it comes from the facehugger that cracks the glass from Newt's cryopod? I don't remember seeing a facehugger spitting acid,. it is the juvenile alien hidden in the duct that spits acid on Murphy, eventually leading to his death, but it does it in self defense, like a cat. We could speculate that both xenomorph and facehugger saliva have same corrosive effects,  but I pointed out above that facehugger saliva should have milder effects just because the facehugger has to attach itself to the face of a living host, without killing it, while the xenomorph is a fully developed weapon, everything that it is made of has the sole purpose to kill, including saliva.

I also believe that the scene from Alien Covenant, when Lope was attacked by the rogue facehugger was there to explain what could have happened to the pilot of derelict. The blood of the injured facehugger melted the stone floor.

Great visuals Gavin.

I can feel the loneliness of the Engineer.

What can i say... I'm a huge Fan of Ridley Scott work. 

About the film 'Alien' -1979, he is the director, therefore, the film is his recorded vision.

A film director is a person who directs the making of a film. A film director controls a film's artistic and dramatic aspects and visualizes the screenplay (or script) while guiding the technical crew and actors in the fulfilment of that vision. The director has a key role in choosing the cast members, production design, and the creative aspects of filmmaking.

 Under European Union law, the director is viewed as the author of the film.

The film director gives direction to the cast and crew and creates an overall vision through which a film eventually becomes realized, or noticed. Directors need to be able to mediate differences in creative visions and stay within the boundaries of the film's budget.

Great topic, daliens!

@ daliens,

There is one error in your interpretation of how the Space Jockeys fate unfolded...

The only hole in the floor was made when Ash tried to surgically remove the facehugger from Kane.

...the Face hugger was shown twice to have acid in its biology; in the above scene that you mentioned, and when it melted through Kane's visor. In this second scene, the Facehugger was either injured by Kane and its blood splashed ob Kanes visor, or as seen in Alien 3 the Facehugger has the ability to spit acid. Something I used a few years back in the Prometheus Absolution graphic novel I produced.

However, in reply to your postulation about the Space Jockeys fate, and somewhat undoing the work I did in the graphic novel I just linked, the fact remains that the Space Jockey is not an Engineer. Not only do the proportions of the Space Jockey and Engineer not match, but the SOS/warning beacon was also not in Indo-European.

If we are to accept that the eggs are indeed stored within a lower compartment of the vessel as you and BigDave have debated, then we can assume that after falling foul to it's own cargo, probably in a similar way to as depicted in the graphic novel I linked, the Space Jockey landed their vessel and broadcast their beacon.

Evidence also clearly shows that despite Davids assertions that he created the Xenomorph, the reality is that he did not. The Deacon is a proto-form of the Xenomorph, and the Xenomorph lifecycle that David "created" is shown in the urn room, not only on the relief showing a xenomorph in a crucifixion pose (with Facehuggers in the lower corners), but the Xenomorph egg is, as BigDave, also shown on the "paintings" on the urn room ceiling. IMO, Davids statement comes from his arrogance and descent into madness, as both Advent and the Covenant novelization also relate that David merely continued the work the Engineers had renounced - the Xenomorph is not his wolf, it is his realization of the wolf the Engineers chose to abandon.

What the Xenomorph is should be debated and explored in another thread, but where it comes from lies between the Engineers and the Space Jockeys. I still contend, whether or not the Space Jockey is a separate species or a member of the Xenomorph race, that its existence predates the Engineers and that the Engineers are merely primitive human slaves used by the Space Jockeys to continue their work of spreading the Xenomorph. The Engineers continued the Space Jockeys work by weaponizing the eggs by reducing them to their most basic form - the black goo. The Engineers established a base on LV-223 to be able to quickly travel to and from LV-426, grabbing the eggs and weaponizing them.

"The facehugger then bled to death on the floor, its lifetime mission accomplished, its acid blood made the hole through which Kane descended later into the hold."

That certainly is plausible... something we discussed before on this site, and is the easiest way to pass off what caused that Hole!   You could even speculated that when a Xenomorph or Face Hugger has died, then its Body over Time will Dissolve and cause the HOLE.

Ridley Scott had gave in detail about the Space Jockey event.... but this was prior to the PLOT for Alien Covenant.

His comments paint a certain picture, but also could hint that the Derelict's Cargo was a ONE of a kind!

He had claimed the Derelict Event happened within a Few Hundred years of the Outbreak that had KILLED off most of those Engineers on LV-223.   He further said that something in the Cargo Hold had EVOLVED and infected the Pilot.  Who then knowing he was Infected had laid a Course to the Barren World of LV-426 to Quarantine the Ship/Cargo and set off the Beacon to WARN his brothers that the Cargo/Mission had become Compromised.

Its open to Interpretation... but to me this suggests at least that its likely the Derelict Event happened a FEW HUNDRED years after the Outbreak on LV-223.   I would Speculate that maybe the Space Jockey had gone into Cryo-Sleep (but Derelict lacked Cryo-Pods but they could have been located elsewhere on the ship).   The Pilot as infected, and maybe he never knew he was infected.

A Few Hundred Years passed, he came out of Cryo-Sleep went to resume his Mission, then he noticed he must have been infected.... or something had infected him Unbeknownst as he went into Cry-Sleep.  Or he could have investigate the Cargo Hold prior and was infected.

Which ever route, something maybe infected him that he had NO knowledge would have, it depends what RS meant by the EVOLVED comment, which could mean what ever infected the Space Jockey was NOT in the Cargo Hold the 200 years prior.

The Juggernaught in Prometheus had 3 of its Crew Dead via a Chest Buster like Event... while we dont see any detail, and we could speculated something could have BURNT into the Cryo-Pods... the Prop Engineers inside were CHEST BUSTED.

So we could speculate was it the same thing that had infected those Engineers too?

For me however... i would always be drawn to the Eggs being placed on the Ship/Cargo Hold with Intention, and so NO Organism ends up Laying or Creating those Eggs while the Surviving Engineers went to SLEEP.

But back then in 2012, i had wondered how this connects to ALIEN and pondered if the Hammerpedes were the Source of those Eggs?  Certainly the Chest Busted Engineers in Cryo-sleep in Prometheus.

Alien Covenant however could also allow us to ponder if something similar to the Spores had grown on LV-223 at least in some places after the Outbreak? or was part of the Outbreak.

I think while the Idea/Intention was that the Egg Cargo Hold is part of the SHIP.  And while i dont think this would ever change, until we see the Derelict Loaded with Eggs so we know HOW they got onto the Ship, then this is always going to be a subject of debate.

IF we go the route that the Eggs are on the Ship, then it would leave it open for other Eggs to be located in other places, UNLESS we assume that there was ONLY one Ship that EVER had that Cargo!

IF we look at the Eggs being something the Engineers had Experimented on, then we have to ASK where did they come from and so that means its likely there are more out there.  IF we look at the Eggs as being Created from Experiments then we have to ask WAS that Cache of all those Eggs EVERY one they had created?

I think looking at the CARGO Hold being a Underground Storage Facility would kind of Reduce the Chances of their being more, but we could ask did those Engineers Put all their Eggs in ONE Basket?

Could there had been more Egg Storage Facilities on LV-426 if we go this route?   DID those Eggs in that case come from someplace else and taken to the Storage Facility?  So again there could be other avenues of the Eggs.

These are all based on IGNORING what Alien Covenant had shown!

If we factor in Alien Covenant, this raises a Problem, because to ASSUME their is a Underground Storage Facility on LV-426 then it must mean that David takes his Experiments/Eggs to that Facility meaning this is the ONLY location for them...  but then the same could be said if we go this route and the Cargo Hold is on the Derelict.

HOWEVER... Alien Covenant does show us that there are Eggs on Planet 4 although these ones likely WONT yield any Queen.   And if the Prequels had completed then David could have had more Eggs on the Covenant, and/or Origae-6 too....

Certainly at very least there are those on Planet 4 and the Thousands on LV-426,  The David Created the Xenomorph route could LIMIT the number of places where Eggs can be obtained.

Before this PLOT change, we could speculate if those Eggs had got to LV-426 from LV-223 and so indeed it was likely that those or some of those Outposts on LV-223 had Eggs at one point...  The One Fresco shows a Egg but this was only on screen for a split second and not as a Full Image.

Regarding those other Outposts..... on LV-223, i would suspect each outpost either had... a Different Variant of the Bio-Weapon, or each outpost as dedicated to a different World/Race the Engineers had created (Fire and Stone indicated this) and so each Outpost's Bio-Weapon would be intended for different Targets.

Regarding the Acid Hole.... it looked more like something had Burnt from the Pilot Chamber down to the Egg Hold.

Ridley Scott said the beast is cooked because it WAS COOKED by the two sequels to Alien: deep fried/grilled in Aliens and stuffed/boiled/bloated in Resurrection (first time when aliens are showed in full light and swimming).

The queen was very popular I suppose, because it laid eggs, a lot of eggs so a lot of aliens good for a shooting spree. Didn't those sequels have a lot of shootings? Oh, yes!

(Because I remembered the death of Newborn, Ridley Scott mentioned he wanted a similar death for Lambert, but in 1979 there was no CGI)

The queen in Alien3 was force-fed to David Fincher by the producers, in the director cut it is not even seen, nothing bursts out of Ripley's chest. So the last queen was supposed to be dead and gone from the franchise. With Ripley,  with Newt, with Hicks. But the fans were so outraged, like they were after Prometheus, like they are after Alien Covenant.

For me the true and only sequel to Alien is Alien3. I think I outraged some more fans.

Gavin regarding that Blomkamp proposed movie, yes, I'd like to have that movie made, because it seems it is the only way to stop the gossip of what a lovely movie it would have been and how arrogant was Ridley Scott to shelve it.

I don't expect it to be much better than The Predator,, that was also highly praised before it was released, but I am not a fan of Aliens either, so not among the target audience for Fox/Disney if they prefer to invest in another dead end popcorn flick. In Disneyland, Orlando.

That crab walk movement of the Alien was probably connected to Lambert's death, that was supposed to be different, Lambert was to hide into one of those lockers that Jonesy came out of and die of fright. But that got changed, as it got changed in every script before, and Veronica Cartwright found about how her character died only when she saw the film. Those are indeed Brett's legs with the Alien tail in that scene, but how many people realized it unless they read about it somewhere?  Isn't that brilliant?

There are more shots with Bolaji Badejo practicing with the suit on, to nail an appropriate system of movement for the beast, I suppose it was not an easy task to be in the shoes of a xenomorph, but in the film he did a great job (deleted scenes don't matter too much):

Thanks Leto 

I believe Giler's twist to the story, introducing an android and the evil Company, made the film better, strengthened O'Bannon's initial version, which would have probably felt a bit dated these days without the conspiracy and would have limited the potential for the sequels.

All in all, my take is Alien was made in one of those crucial moments when everything that happens adds to the success of the project. Everyone's contribution pushed the story forward.

Another example I can think of, and being a Ridley Scott dedicated topic, is Gladiator.

"Another question is the hole which Kane enters which, at least at the top, seems burnt as of acid. Has something burnt itself down or up?"

After seeing Prometheus we know that the pilots of Juggernaut were in that chair only during landing and take off, eventually during fighting/bombing their enemies, rest of the time was spent in cryosleep.

We also saw in Prometheus that after bursting out from the Enginner's body, the Deacon went out. In Alien the chestburster went into hiding, it did not make any hole in the floor. The only hole in the floor was made when Ash tried to surgically remove the facehugger from Kane.

Ridley Scott said that the pilot was infected by his cargo and we saw in Alien that only one sector of the cargo hold was still covered in a layer of blue mist, rest of the eggs were not, and there were many eggs in that hold. I will deduct that the blue mist layer was not only to keep the pilot safe during the trip, but to preserve the eggs as well, a sort of incubator. Consequently I believe that the only eggs still alive when Nostromo landed on LV426 were those covered by the blue mist.

So... My only logical conclusion from the above facts is that something went wrong in the hold during the flight, maybe it was the blue mist generator malfunctioning, the pilot, awaken from cryosleep by some alarm system, went below deck and was attacked by a facehugger, chased like Lope from Covenant, or even with the facehugger attached to his face. He returned to the command deck and while being impregnated he managed to remove the facehugger hurting it in the fight (remember the Lope incident, must have been there for a reason). The facehugger then bled to death on the floor, its lifetime mission accomplished, its acid blood made the hole through which Kane descended later into the hold.

The pilot, realizing that everything is lost, and being in the vicinity of LV426, braced up for landing, all suited up, and did the emergency landing. He then activated the warning beacon and at the same time the chestburster made the hole through the chest and suit and went into hiding.

The end.

There is no denying that Ridley Scott was instrumental in helping shape 1979's Alien into the movie it became, but since he returned with his series of prequel movies he has staked ownership on the entire franchise, ownership he cannot claim IMO.

Blogs like Strange Shapes and other online resources help catalog the 40+ years of interviews and behind-the-scenes information that help fans appreciate the movies that little bit more, but said information, and I mean no offense by this (I have such a blog of my own linked in my signature), is for the most part merely a collection of interviews, most of which, as interviews tend to be, are diplomatically and politically (in terms of promoting the movie) phrased. What you will not find in these interviews is what wasn't said publically, although with the history of Alien and it's sequels certain truths have been deduced, such as Giler's constant interference, O'Bannon and Fincher's mistreatment by the aforementioned, and Scott and Camerons frustration towards Giler.

Giler hate aside, and getting back to Scott, Ridley was key to the first movie, but his contributions and practices were not all paved with gold...

# Allegedly Scott was shy and reclusive on set and gave very little in way of direction. This may have been due to inexperience with Alien being his second ever movie. But in his wake Cameron (Aliens was his second movie) and Fincher (Alien 3 was his directorial debut) reportedly showed much more authority on set.

# For the Space Jockey scene Scott famously used children in smaller versions of the principal actor's suits, with the intention of making the set look twice as large. Yet in all subsequent shots, the principal actors are used on the same set creating a conflicting scale. Some might call this nitpicking, but imagine such an error of scale appearing in a modern movie such as The Lord of the Rings. And then, of course, there is the shot of the Aliens tail raising provocatively between Lambert's legs just before it kills her, and has led many to believe it also violated her. But those aren't Lambert's legs - the shot was taken from Brett's death scene earlier in the movie.

# Scott was far from the first choice for the role. Other, higher profile directors at the time turned the movie down. When Scott was hired Fox were literally scraping the barrel, and Giler clearly believed Scott would sway the production in his favor, Which thankfully Scott did not. Not being a horror movie director, as he proved with Hannibal, Scott was ill-suited for the job, and a more established horror director may have produced a better movie, but alas we will never know now. In modern context imagine Paul Feig making a Terminator movie (*shudder*)

# Yes Scott demanded Giger be brought on board, and that O'Bannon's script idea of an actual Alien be used, but both of these, and likely many more aspects of the key decisions while being ticked off by Scott were raised and championed by O'Bannon, who was literally fighting against Giler to have his vision of Alien be made, as opposed to Giler's needless rewrite.

# Not all of Scott's ideas were "inspired". There is, of course, the infamous mention that Scott wanted the Alien to kill Ripley and mimic her voice in the movies closing scene. Another bad idea was Scott's suggestions for some of the Aliens movements, such as the crab walk toward Lambert (see below) which was thankfully left on the cutting room floor, as well as the needlessly exploitative casting scenes depicting Dallas and Ripley as lovers.

After directing Alien, and briefly working on a sequel Scott abandoned the franchise for 33 years. And while devout fans will always view the first movie through rose-tinted spectacles, it was Cameron's sequel in 1986 that propelled the franchise into popularity. I am not denying that Alien was influential, but Aliens was the movie that for many started it all - the comics, the games, the toys. And while some fans berate Camerons Queen, it was this aspect of the Alien that the sequels and the crossovers continued.

But back to Scott.

After 33 years, and a string of good and bad movies he returned to the Alien franchise with rapturous applause and delivered Prometheus. Yes, Prometheus expanded the mythology and was a visual masterpiece, but together with Alien: Covenant lets chronicle what Scott has, of recent contributed to the Alien franchise...

# It was Scott that hired Damon Lindelof to add the "mystery-box" elements to Prometheus. Lindelof is now virtually unemployable.

# For all intents and purposes Scott has retconned the Space Jockey into a bald jock in a suit.

# The Alien is, according to Scott, created by David; a synthetic created by mankind.

# The black goo, shown in Prometheus to infect victims with Xenomorph traits, and the key to David creating his perfect organism, is also shown in Covenant to be a more "generic" bioweapon when unleashed on the Engineer city.

# Rather than deliver what could have been an Alien 2001, Scott and Fox listened to YouTube videos such as the Prometheus HISHE, rather than the fans, and delivered possibly the worst Alien movie to date.

# Scott has repeatedly said that the beast is cooked. And in its place, because his performance in Prometheus was praised, Scott focused more on David than on the Alien, even breaking the cardinal rule of having the creature in full view in daylight (even AVPR avoid breaking that rule).

# The characterization, editing choices and chosen narrative directions taken in the Alien prequels have divided the fanbase.

# Despite whatever arguments one may have against his proposal, Neill Blomkamp's movie generated enough interest among the fandom for Fox to consider it. Early reports suggested that the movie would enter production after Covenants release, with Scott attached as executive producer. However, as Covenants release drew closer Scott proclaimed that the next movie, his third prequel would enter production immediately thereafter and that Blomkamp's movie had been shelved. Scott's movie was rumored to be titled Alien: Awakening, which was formerly the title of Blomkamp's proposed movie. More recently, despite that both James Cameron and Sigourney Weaver have stated that they loved Blomkamp's script, Scott has said that Blomkamp only supplied a short treatment/outline.

# Covenant performed so poorly compared to Prometheus and received such a backlash from fans that Fox put the brakes on Scott's Alien: Awakening, with Stacey Snider shooting down Scott's plans to produce an AI centric war of the worlds, stating that the story of any such sequel to Covenant was not certain.

In short, while Scott may have played a key role in finishing the production of Alien, it was Dan O'Bannon that was the driving force throughout - without O'Bannon none of any of this would have happened. But if one is to praise Scott for his achievements, one should also take into account the damage he has reaped on the franchise and the fandom. Pre-Prometheus I, as we all, heralded Scott's return, but post-Covenant I'm wishing he had not bothered. 

Great research daliens.

Producers... well, you know. They are ordinary people. Ridley, O'Bannon and Giger - visionaries, they are people of the future. Maybe Disney will turn off Giler from this universe, and will be used peoples who shares vision of the visionaries. And we will finally see truly alien worlds.

dk there were different links to different pages with different content and because I extracted only the content about Ridley Scott I thought it was important for those interested to have the link and read the page in full.

I suppose very few will be curious enough, you're right about that.

Gavin thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

Let's remain focused, the subject of this post is not Strange Shapes, but the influential role played by Ridley Scott in making of Alien.

Thank you.

Gavin Thanks- I have not seen most of those other references but I seem to have found out an actual name for S.M. whom hasn't been around here for a long time!