Comments (Page 241)

"This thing here. Like it’s opened from inside. Almost as if it exploded”

This could also explain the theory i had too... i understand my posts are too long winded to be read by many though..   WHY i am pondering giving the site a indefinite break.. (in terms of if i just end up overflowing the site with endless pages that distract from other peoples discussions).

The DNA match was intended to show we came from them....  some take a 100% Match as meaning we are all the same...  but every Human would have a 100% Match, in context to that finding by Dr Shaw.

These would have a 100% Match in context too....

But then not every Genome would be identical (because we would all be Clones).

So it was to show we are very related, the flaw was that they should have said... "the Data shows we are nearly a 100% Match, we must have came from them!" 

But ALAS.

The Engineers have some differences, they seemed to have Enhanced themselves... but then i guess its a case of a Skinny Guy would have the same DNA match as a Massive Body Builder.

If we found a way/drug to stop out Body/Organs from Aging so we AGE 5X Slower, Essentially meaning we could live for 400-500 years... we would still have a DNA Match.

So we are connected, we came from them, they came from us or we both came from something else related...  the Engineers would come back and enhance us over and over, so we would become more and more like them. Up to a Certain Point....  but then it depends on HOW we look at the Sacrificial Scene and even if his applies to Mankind?

The hole Chest Busted Engineers and Exploded Engineer Props could have been from Production for Alien Engineers, when indeed the reasons for them was different...   some had been Chest Busted, some wounded by said Organisms.

The Prequels are full of changes of direction and flaws, that its open to debate and sometimes a mess...  i think we always have to consider what Spaights and Ridley Scott had been attempting though....... but i am not sure many Fans like the idea the Xenomorph is a Experiment created from the Discovery of a Organism the Engineers used their Creation/Hybrid Tool on to Extract Traits to Enhance themselves and Technology, while also making Various Bio-Weapon Xenomorphs too.

"There is should be a good reason, or it's another mystery for mystery."

Certainly i think thats a Good Point, they could have made a CGI Smaller Bowl, it would be harder than a Green Crystal because this was placing something LARGER to cover something Smaller...    you would Replace Dumbo with a Mouse.. maybe thats not a ideal Anology so pass that... but  its easier to over CGI something with something Bigger, than to Replace with something Smaller....

But having a Smaller Bowl would NOT have been Impossible... so its open to WHY this was changed, could it be as i suspect?  But then if this really MATTERED or the Plot, then WHY not replace with Smaller Bowl.

Could it be because they changed the PLOT... well they seemed to change things on the FLY... look at the Scenes that got CUT just to show us the Engineers HATED Humans went Postal, Crashed and Got Burned and went on another Rampage for Survivors.

I think a lot shows that those working on the Prequels just cant make their minds up and stick to a A-Z Plot... and so YES we have to give Ridley Scott some of the blame for that.

"Engineers, humans, one and the same in my opinion. the two theories for Engineers relationship to humanity are.."

They certainly are created.. i think when looking at the Creation Layers many overlook David... he could be the ANSWER right there...

David was not created purely because Weyland wanted a SON to love as his own.....  I dont think Dr Shaw's answers to her Questions would have shown that GOD created Mankind to Love and Cherish for ever and ever!

The Sumerian Mythos well some interpretations, indicated a Race of Gods Sub created a Slave Race, who Rebelled and so they created another Slave Race (Mankind). If we look at the Biblical Account.... If Lucifer did-not rebel and take some of the Angels with him... WOULD God have created Mankind, but some accounts are his Fall was because he would not BOW down to worship Adam.

We should not stick all of our Eggs in One Basket as far as what Mythos to look at.... i think the Broad Themes should be applied though!

What Purpose does the David and Walter Models have?  They are to Serve Mankind, Created to make our Lives Easier and Perform  Tasks that could be deemed DIFFICULT or Dangerous to Mankind.

Another Purpose would be in context to Weyland Personally, for a Man who wishes to leave a Legacy, so he would be Immortalized in his works, and try and play GOD, then creating a David/Synthetics would make him feel is is a GOD.

Also if we consider that creating David and AI could be seen as a attempt to gain Immortality if Weyland could only just UPLOAD his Soul into a Synthetic....  

Then we could look at maybe these reasons being maybe similar to reasons for Creation the Further up the Ladder we go.

We also have to consider David... he was not happy with how his Creators had viewed him, not when he felt Superior and so David becomes Sentient and Rebels, and we see him also looking to WANT to be a Creator himself!

And so this also could apply to the higher levels of that Creation Ladder.....

The LV-223 Engineers could be to those Planet 4, as David or Replicants are to Mankind.

So back to your Slave Race Comment... yes why not... Space Jockeys could created Engineers for similar reasons as i mentioned, and Engineers could create Mankind (or Space Jockey do) to for the same reasons again and so Forth!

We could then ponder is this Slave/Task related to Sacrifice?  Highly likely, but then its for what reason... Create Life, Create Death, spread the Xenomorph... i think all options in context are possible.

I look at Planet 4 as in context to Paradise/Garden of Eden, a the Cradle of Creation, watched over by some Higher Beings.  Was their a Faction who had then done things against what was intended and BANISHED?

Did Mankind come from here before we was BANISHED?

I look at LV-223 as a Green-House, Nursery our Gardeners of Space would use to Test/Evolve various life and then Re-Seed them onto the Worlds.   My Prometheus Sequel ideas i was to show  a Flash Back where Primitive Apes were taken to LV-223 to then be Evolved into Mankind (Hybrid Engineer/Ape) and then taken to Earth.

They returned over and over... and the Stat Maps are saying "this is where you came from"  something had happened at some point that lead to LV-223 becoming something else... a Place to Create Horror... well some Engineers Discovered something Interesting and used this to Evolve themselves, and then attempted to use this to Create something to EVOLVE Mankind after we had upset them.

But alas such ideas or Plot is something that just does-not become very ALIEN, and i had some more Alieny ideas but it was Merging them... which i could not find a ideal way so i abandoned even trying!

A lot of Fans just feel the Prequels should Center around the Xenomorph and our Engineers/Space Jockeys are just enslaved to spread the Xeno-Seed.  I find some flaws with that though.

in HINDSIGHT... the Prequels should have been Left to a Mystery and maybe just go ahead with ALIENS 2 and AVP 3 etc.

daliens

Regarding the three dead engineers in the pilot room, there are holes in their hypersleep chambers just above their chests suggesting a chest burster exiting first through their ribcages then right through their hypersleep chambers.

As for the engineer pile outside the closed door, Milburn remarks: “This thing here. Like it’s opened from inside. Almost as if it exploded”. This is, of course, meant to be a reference to Dallas’s words about the Space Jockey’s chest wound: “Bones are bent outwards. Like he exploded from inside.”.

When it comes to the deacon being bipedal, and we accept that the resulting creature takes up traits from its host (which can also be debated), the engineer and human DNA match so there shouldn’t be any special differences, except the size (ultramorph).

" and one of Lucifers many titles is "the prince of lies"

Certainly this is how Abrahamic Faiths have it, Lucifer does fit more with Prometheus and Enki too, and so actually the "prince of lies" would be "beacon of truth"   But in context to David and When ONE note is off the Symphony is well destroyed, yes David could be a bit bonkers and deluded.

I think however when we look at Prometheus and Alien Covenant as far as Davids Notes... then it could be take as he had created the Proto-Morph if you will.  I will answer this with my reply to daliens comment.

"David never saw that Deacon. That Deacon was an accident"

We have to remember David has a High IQ, we can assume he could Read the Engineer Writing in the Complex, who knows how much he gained from when he activated the Juggernaught Chair...

David had witnessed that Dr Shaw was carrying a NONE-Traditional Fetus.... while he never saw the Deacon in Prometheus.... (who knows after that Movie until they left) but you would BET he would have been interested to see what became of Dr Shaws Child.... 

So its possible he would have been interesting in REPLICATING the Event..   with Alien Covenant it showed that David had witnessed what the Neomorph Spores could create and he had attempted various experiments with them and using the Black Goo to take traits from various Organisms to in essence EVOLVE the Neomorph into the Xenomorph.  A understanding of the Black Goo as far as if we used Alien Engineers Nano-Scarabs would show you HOW the Black Goo can indeed be used to Cross/Hybrid and Obtain Traits from Organisms.

So daliens indeed what you are saying i feel is what we are being shown.... i dont think it was a WISE move.. and certainly was-not what was intended..

Something i am sure many wished they never saw, but maybe something we need to accept rather than Clutch at Straws... some fans still wont accept the Space Jockey is NOT a Skeleton... but everyone is entitled to their opinion even when One Note is Off ;)

I think what we need to look at is from Davids POV...

If he wanted to know what those Engineers were doing and wanted to Witness what they created First Hand, then Dr Shaw's Fetus was a Interesting Result... he never got to see the Deacon, but surely he would be wondering WHAT would Happen Next, he would maybe see similarity in Dr Shaws Fetus and the Mural, as far as the Face Huggers but he never got to see the END Product...  so we could assume he would maybe WANT to replicate that.

IF David had encountered the Neomorph, and a Xenomorph Egg then WHY THE HELL would he bother with all those other Experiments?

It would be Found Xenomorph Egg Check!   Got some Spores Check!   Now lets await for the Engineers and Humans and its Party Time!

You could suggest that he wanted to Create a Hybrid Version, that would combine the Neomorph Traits... and that could still be plausible...  The main Problem is such a PLOT is well a bit Crap, and so we can hope and look for clues to try and AVERT what we was shown instead of being in Denial!

Personally i would want David to go on and Evolve his Xenomorphs to be something else... but i feel its such a Coincidence that he Replicates something from LV-426, unless he uses/obtains a Egg.... but then we have to ASK why bother with all those other Experiments.

"i found my Wolf, then spent 10 years Fecking Around with in-superior versions"  that makes no sense!

We have to accept things and think how can we EVOLVE and change it moving forwards and not alter whats happened.. some Fans are upset at Camerons Bugs Life! And the Queen.... if RS was allowed to REBOOT that idea out of Existence and go with what was Originally Planned.. i dont think that would be ideal, and the Queen should remain...

So i think we need to FIX the problem and not IGNORE it... and so it makes more sense NOW that The Engineers or whoever created them will return they will Discover Davids Xenomorph and see what a Perfection in the Making that is... they would see David and see him as Similar, or maybe what Humanoids David Creates... and then these beings (Engineers or Creators) take Davids Xenomorph, take David or his Humanoids and Combine them to create the Eggs on LV-426.

THIS has to be the best way to go, the other option is get CAMERON and Blomkamp and ..... Re-boot the Prequels... they never happened lol.

By that i mean you just have to Roll with the Punches, and come out the other end with a better Round 2....  than just NOT accept and hope for a Reboot of Ideas...

"Camerons Bugs was Stupid"  sorry we have to accept this but this does-not have to mean thats the only kind of Xenomorph.

"The Space Jockey is NOT a Engineer" sorry we maybe have to accept it, but by Virtue of Scale and minor differences we can introduce the Space Jockey as something different... but a Skeletal Remains is a Stretch too FAR.

So basically we could go the route the Engineers or their Creators had DROPPED the Ball, then David picked it up, the Engineers then Take the Ball off David and then TOUCHDOWN/GOAL!  

Making David merely the Middle Man.... the Engineers or their Creators gave the A (maybe a bit on wards) in the Origins, David merely did the M and then those Engineers/their Creators do the Z and Voila we have those Eggs on LV-426.

The lack of Scale for our 7.5ft Engineers on LV-223 maybe meant that LARGER Sacrificial Bowl had to GO!

OH C'MON! They use CG, to replace the bowl with the crystal. If they want, they can simply change the size of bowl. There is should be a good reason, or it's another mystery for mystery.

"We have no other clue in Prometheus that the Engineers created the xenomorph"

I can agree with this... despite the indication was the Xenomorph had Originated from those Experiments or the Outbreak, but Alien Covenant threw that Curve-Ball that changed things.

If we go back prior to Alien Covenant, then indeed the intention was to indicate a connection, more direct in Alien Engineers, and then loosely with Paradise which became Prometheus.

So in Hindsight it became a bit of a MESS...  When looking at the other ideas for FIFIELD we could see that he was intended to have more Xeno/Deacon DNA, also he was intended to have ACID BLOOD  (did in drafts) then the Engineers Face Burn had occurred during his Struggle with the Trilobite.... but the Re-shoots while in Burns make up and alluded to it being from the Crash, yet there was no signs of FIRE DAMAGE on the Juggernaught.

The Fresco showed a EGG but this was not a complete shot and for a Split Second... 99% of people would missed it... 

The Engineers Cryo-Pods had Holes in them apart from the Surviving Engineer, while we never had a clear close up shot of those Cryo-Pods (again they was easily missed) the Props inside where Chest Busted Engineers, Holes the Size of what a Deacon would make.. yet Hole in Cryo-Pod much Smaller.. but alas this is another Oversight!

So there was clues..but there was little time spent on those clues, and some of the alternative designs and Acid Blood and whole Editing had made such clues hard to read or missing completely.

Alien Engineers gives the Biggest Clues, if you use that as a Rosetta Stone then Prometheus becomes NOT so ambiguous.

The Mural.... thats a Mystery, maybe it meant something, maybe its a Red Herring... the Fresco too... but i have had my LONG TIME theory on that... but its something that would take a LONG post....  i feel its pretty Solid though, but a ANCHOR point is the Sacrificial Bowl, which was replaced by the Green Rock, which i can SAFELY assume is because of the Scale of the Bowl, compared to when we saw it in the Sacrificial Scene would indicate the Sacrificial Engineer to be about 12-13ft Tall.  Which was the Intention!

The lack of Scale for our 7.5ft Engineers on LV-223 maybe meant that LARGER Sacrificial Bowl had to GO!

OK, Leto.

I'll put it in the log :)

Damn it, Ridley, you are the next visionary, always ahead of our times. People will understand later the lonely perfection of your cuckoo.

Yeah. Sorry. I know. :)

1. This is the future. FTL, cryosleep. Keep facehuggers alive is some liquid - the easiest.

2. You will find out if you go to the gym. ;)

"Doesn't matter. They did U-turn with A:C. They do U-Turn with A:C-2."

Yeah, but I'm afraid it's too late, for some at least.

I don't know if I can accept that David lied about creating the perfect organism. Or if the Space Jockey is not a big bald humanoid in a suit. Or an android in a big bald humanoid's suit :)

Actually,  the more I think about the fact that David created the xenomorph,  the more interesting I find it. I want to see how he got the biomechanical one. In other circumstances we would never find out, leaving it a mistery.

Damn it, Ridley, you are the next visionary, always ahead of our times. People will understand later the lonely perfection of your dreams.

@chli

I think while the Novel Suggest that, the Movie does-not have the exact same scenes, as far as "menacing bipeds. Their tough exoskeletons gleamed like black steel. Though there were slight individual variations, all had in common the same threatening aspect - long tails ending in scorpion-like points, curving elongated skulls devoid of visible eyes, and jaws filled with teeth shining like chromed chisel.”  There are some Examples but i dont recall any Matching the Full Scale and Description as shown in the Novel... so again i think it depends on HOW did ADF come to include such things in the Novel?

"The hologram shows engineers running from something and those who don’t make it in time to the closing safety doors ends up dead with holes in their chests"

This can be interpreted as such and that SCREAM did not Help things...

But i cam to a different conclusion... we need to FORGET what we see in ALIEN and look at what we see in Prometheus.  which is this Black Goo Pathogen, that Dr Shaw had indicated she had seen something similar before (Ebola) and Janek mentioned he had to Nuke a Facility because some Scientist Spilled something.

The First Time we see any GOO is the Sacrificial Engineer, he consumes the Substance and a Violent Reaction occurs, his Body Molecule by Molecule is being Broken Down, and the Resulting Black Particles of Matter and Pathogen seem to FLY off, until the Engineers Legs are Dissolved and he Falls into the Water Fall/Lake.

Then we have the Hologram Scene, those Engineers do appear to be running away, but they also appear to be running towards that Big Head/Ampoule Room.  Some may say WHY run towards the Place the Pathogen is Stored?

Here we need to look at some Evidence... 

Firstly those URNS all remained intact until the Prometheus Crew (No Helmets) had affected the Environment, for Thousands of Years prior those Urns remained Intact!

Second the Engineers Head had remained in a Well Preserved Condition, YET his Body on the Outside is just a Hollow Shell (The Space Suit),  The Engineers Head when Re-Activated by the Probe that Stimulates Cells to become Active, suddenly EXPLODED.

I therefor assume that for some Reason the Big Head Room's Environment somehow Slowed Down or Prevented the Pathogen from having ANY effect... it HALTED it.  If this ASSUMPTION is correct it would give Good Reason for WHY those Engineers were all attempting to reach this ROOM.  It also would explain WHY the Engineers Head was Preserved, and WHY the Urns remained intact until the Human Crew with NO helmets arrived.

The Deleted Scenes showed our Engineer walked across the Surface of LV-223 with NO Helmet and so they likely dont use them to survive in that Environment but as some Bio-Hazard Protection,  in both terms of preventing the Pathogen to enter their Body, and also in Terms of preventing them from AFFECTING the Storage Room for the Pathogen.

Next i come to those Engineer Body's, nearly all of them had NO Chest Bust Holes, the Holes where in the Heads, but also other parts of the Body, Arms, Legs and well  in many places.  This could mean they was attacked by a Xenomorph.  But these Suits also look HOLLOW (which could be because thats easier from a Production Perspective so Less Weight).

When you look in context to what i have mentioned so far, and then look at Alien Covenant and how the Black Goo seemed to Replicate and then Escape the Engineers from what ever Orifice it could escape from....

ASK yourself this... what happens if they wore Space Suits?, would the Pathogen try and Escape from the Suit?

If we look at the Sacrificial Engineer and his Reaction was contained within a Space Suit, we could maybe ponder would such a Violent Chemical Reaction be like when you have a Mint/Minto into a Soda/Cola Bottle and Shake it... this creates a Violent Reaction and any SINGLE weak point in the Bottle and the Liquid/Gas will Escape/Explode out of this...  

I assume this explains the Holes in the Engineers Suits.. a Flaw in this Theory (which i put on here many times prior to Alien Covenant) is that with Alien Covenant we have to ask WHY those Engineers Bodys became like Petrified/Calcified?  (The Radical AI is the explanation but thats for another debate).

It is a Theory, that i think reflects the Clues, Dialect and Comments by Production, but its a theory that leaves a Question "so how does this explain the Fricken Xenomorph" it does-not...  we need to look at what happened to Dr Shaw in Prometheus and Davids experiments on Planet 4 or the Hammerpedes for that.

Here is a Image showing what i have been on about.

Leto

I have two dilemmas regarding Aliens:

1. How did they keep those two facehuggers alive in the big glass jars from Hadley's Hope? How did they surgically remove them and how come they did not die? If there was time to perform the surgery, victims died anyway, the facehuggers had time to implant the eggs and, as we all know, after that any facehugger dies happily.

2. How was Ripley holding on on one hand, the airlock open, queen attached to her leg until, luckily, her shoe got lost toghether with the queen?

Doesn't matter. They did U-turn with A:C. They do U-Turn with A:C-2.

BigDave

Sorry, but you say nonsense. "Fans want..." "Some fans..." "Maybe fans..."

Do you really don't understand? Prometheus and Alien Covenant good films. Many people and "aliens fans" love this films. They love Engineers, Black goo and Neomorphs. Nobody wants a Queen or something like that in Prometheus.

It's all about quality of performance! Alien and Aliens have the best quality. You don't need to buy Aliens with a Queen, but you should be honest. Alien and Aliens - gold standard. You will be extremely surprised, when you find out that many fans don't have obsessions about Queen, Ripley and Colonial Marines. Reason why people love Alien and Aliens - high quality.

Gavin I agree that David is delusional and the prince of lies, but a stronger proof that he created the xenomorph are the facehugger embrios. How could he have had those if he did not create them himself?

"As you can see, I've become a bit of an amateur zoologist over the years. It's in my nature to keep busy, I suppose. The pathogen took so many forms... and was extremely mutable. Fiendishly inventive, in fact. The original liquid atomized to... particles when exposed to the air. Ten years on, all the remains... outside of the original virus... Are these gorgeous beasts. Patience is everything. From the eggs came these parasites... Shock troops of the genetic assault. Waiting for a host entering the host... rewriting the DNA... Ultimately... producing... well, these enviable unions. My beautiful bestiary. Soon enough I began a bit of genetic experimentation of my own. Some cross-breeding, hybridising...

You engineered this, David?

Idle hands are the devil's workshop, Captain. Come. This is what I wanted to show you. My successes. You see, Captain... My work has been frustrated... by the lack of an essential ingredient.

Are they alive?

Waiting, really..

For what? What are they waiting for, David?

Mother. Perfectly safe, I assure you. Take a look."

In the above scene with Oram he explains how it all started, he has evidence of his experiments, his beautiful bestiary, all culminating with his successes from the basement.

There are two eggs in his lab, apart from the little ones on the table, one egg is sliced as for the other one, David removes one side of it and we have a glimpse of a dead facehugger inside. He does not say a word about them.

Again, David says a lot of lies, but all his lies are debunked in the film, except the fact that he created the xenomorph. Is that a lie too? A lot of evidence suggests otherwise.

What evidence do we have that the Engineers created the xenomorph? It comes to mind Shaw's reply from Prometheus: "Because this is what I choose to believe!"

And in the end, I will quote again Ridley Scott from another interview from March 3, 2017:

"Prometheus was about who and why? This is getting closer to who designed it and for what reason."

Dont get me wrong though, i should not be taken as ALIENS or Cameron Bashing!  There is a Market for the more Action Packed Xeno-Flick, certainly also is the Formula that is used in a Majority of the Games/Comics and a Formula that had been a Great Marketing and Merchandise Asset to FOX.

I do look at it as Ridley Scott does and that is the Formula has been repeated a lot, the Games, Comics seem to be very similar to what say a Aliens and Alien Resurrection had done, and the Xenomorph via Games and Comics and how it became in Alien Resurection and AVP Movies, was something that just was NOT as Scary or Interesting as it had been Overdone!

You needed to change it a bit, introduce something Fresh, but that really is difficult, the Same Queen, Eggs, Face Huger, Chest Buster, Xenomorph.. Run, and Shoot, Greedy/Selfish Company wants Organism and a Ripley comes to save the day (other Hero's/Heroins in Comics), it gets Repetitive for some, but i understand some would love to have a repeat of a Aliens over and over and have NO problems...

Other ways you can change the Franchise, would be introduce New Versions and Hybrids, but some Purest are NOT fans of that.

Or you can make the Xenomorph something much more Special and Intelligent, but the Franchise so FAR has not indicated that these Xenomorphs will go around and Create Technology they can use to Fly Around.. they seem to basically be More Alieny kind of Bee Hive!

This is why RS with the Prequels wanted to explore something NEW and have the Prequel Series go off and NOT be about the Xenomorph but expand something NEW with the Engineers/Space Jockey, while then leaving the Alien Franchise Free to make more Comics, Books and maybe Movies that would be about the Xenomorph (But please NO Ripley, i dont think she has to be part of every movie).

That was the PLAN.... Prequels = Something New for Alien Fans and Sci-Fi Fans..  Original Franchise = Platform to give Alien Fans Movies and Games and Comics about Queens and Eggs, but Ultimately Xenomorphs.   Some of those Fans were just NOT happy with the Prequels, and some felt they SHOULD be about the Xenomorph as the Main Element....  i think the Engineers and who created them is what it should be about...

But what a Mess we are in NOW with the Plot of Alien Covenant, some elements interesting but a Distraction as by Virtue of a ALIEN Prefix, it is going to be expected to be about Xenomorphs and getting to when those Eggs get onto the Derelict.

Bottom Line with them is when you First Saw the Derelict and Space Jockey Scene.....   when you look at those Planet 4 Engineers and their City (not including their Ships) and then the Reveal a Weyland Created Robot had created the Xenomorph....

BOTH of these are just NOT as ALIEN as the Space Jockey Scene, and Eggs in ALIEN seemed to Allure us towards.

@ daliens,

As I just pointed out in the "Are the eggs still on LV-426" thread, there is enough evidence in Alien: Covenant to negate Davids assertions that he created the Xenomorph - such as when he asserts this to Walter during a conversation whereby Walter points out the David is an "off note", broken, damaged, insane... a liar.

Covenant has connotations to John Milton's Paradise Lost, with David mirroring the fall of Lucifer, and one of Lucifers many titles is "the prince of lies" - throughout Alien: Covenant David lies over and again. His assertion that he created the Xenomorph is a lie, fabricated from a broken mind suffering from delusions of omnipotence.

"It is essentially a form of radical AI. Making the substance unbelievably chaotic. That generates a unique reaction, to every genome it encounters. Reshaping life. Virtually limitless in its potential & application."

Yes, with the above quote David is talking about, in Advent, the black goo. But the same description applies to the Xenomorph. One is not the precursor to the other, they are one and the same - the black goo is the Xenomorph, just in a weaponized form, developed by the engineers to be deployed in pottery urns containing glass vials. Of course, this is my assertion, and you likely have your own, but as a said above David only claims he created the "perfect organism" during a conversation about his apparent fallibility, suggesting it is a lie.

@ BigDave,

Engineers, humans, one and the same in my opinion. the two theories for Engineers relationship to humanity are...

# They are a precursor race, humans that existed before we did. As explored in Doom 3, The Red Planet, Assasins Creed, etc.

# They are human slaves, taken by Aliens to serve them. As explored in Stargate.

Either is possible and likely, but when we look at the Engineers technology on Planet 4 and their perceived behavior mentioned in Advent we are given two choices...

# They created life and waited billions of years for humanity to evolve, visited humanity, sought to destroy humanity using the black goo, and then turned away from using the black goo.

# or, as human slaves they returned periodically to Earth, and when they got the order to destroy earth refused and turned away from the black goo using it instead to create life.

@ BigDave,

Whether it is lazy writing or not, it fits with the movie/franchise - Alien: Covenant is lazily written throughout, so the likelihood that the screenwriter (Logan) would use an established trope of the Alien franchise is high.

Regardless, the Advent message, though an extra, was sent to Weyland-Yutani by David sometime during the latter part of his ten year period on Planet 4. In the message, David clearly threatens the company and mankind, while gloating about his "achievements". Considering the Prometheus extra that states that 10 years or more prior Weyland Corp had discovered the derelict Juggernauts beacon and determined its source to be LV-426, then it is almost certain that Weyland-Yutani would have been able to locate the source of Davids signal as being Planet 4.

But how would Weyland-Yutani respond? Do they send a colonial marine detachment or a colony ship? Ridley has stated he wants to distance his prequels from the sequel to his original so that all but eliminates the possibility of colonial marines. However, as Prometheus showed, Ridley is not against recycling elements of his previous movies, so sending a colony ship towards Origae 6, knowing it would pass by Planet 4 not only fits in with this, but also Logans writing style and future behavior of the company.

As to whether or not Walter was planted onboard purposefully - this not only mirrors Ash's backstory in Alien but also explains why they used Michael Fassbender as opposed to another actor. They know David is THE David from the Prometheus mission, so why would they send a Walter unit which is in terms of appearance identical to David? As a contingency plan to either eliminate, neutralize or subdue David and acquire the technology he has discovered.

Regards the Egg I mentioned it can be seen in the movie, and is situated on a plinth denoting that this egg is of some importance.

Together with statements from Scott (see chli's above reply), and Advent this heavily suggests that Davids assertions that he created the Xenomorph are a lie, or more correctly a delusion. Consider for a moment that when Oram asks if David engineered the Xenomorph David only replies with "the devil makes work for idle hands." Furthermore, David refers to the eggs in the basement as his "work", his "successes", never his creation. David only asserts that he ha created a perfect organism to Walter after Walter reveals David that the verse David claimed was written by Ozymandias was in fact written by (Percy) Shelley.

Walter is an upgrade to David, the next model. Yet David asserts that he can create, feel emotion and dream, processes Walter does not possess. We know from the viral marketing for Prometheus that Davids emotions are merely mimicry, whereas his creative and imaginative assertions are delusions generated from a corrupted, failing synthetic mind. Walter asserts all of this to David, but David refutes it in the same way someone suffering from insanity believes they are sane. David is broken, either from age or from possible contamination from the black goo - remember rather than serve Shaw, he destroyed the means from which she could have got the answers she sought and then murdered her and mutilated her corpse. I believe in medical terms David would be diagnosed as CUCKOO.

@ chli,

Regards how a Space Jockey or egg carrying Juggernaut would deploy its cargo of eggs there is another possibility. If as many of us seem to prefer, that the Juggernaut are living vessels, then like the Queen Alien herself, maybe the Juggernaut has some form of ovipositor/appendage that extends from beneath the vessel as it hovers over the ground that can "lay" eggs, either one at a time or in batches.

Regards Scott's statement. This only infers that the Engineers did not create the Xenomorph. It does not assert that David created the Xenomorph. Considering the egg I mentioned before and pictured above, it is likely that Scott (if he is not contradicting himself again, as he has in the past) is referring to the Space Jockey or some other party we have not been shown.

"And, I think, we need Lara Croft for this mystery. :)"

Lara Croft is the wife of David, so she shoul know more :)

"David never saw the Deacon."

David never saw that Deacon. That Deacon was an accident, like the Hammerpede. But David could have learned about the effects of the black goo from inscriptions and during the travel to planet 4. I want to underline that the Deacon or a similar xenomorph as an effect of black goo on the Engineers was known to them, but they did not created it intently, like David did later on.

For Holloway,  as an archeologist, it looked like a tomb, but I think it was rather a sanctuary, tha black goo was stable in that room due to controlled conditions that changed when Prometheus crew opened the door.

The Deacon was probably what inspired David to create the xenomorph.

David never saw the Deacon.

I don't know what to say about the murals, are they part of the "Mystery Box"? Was the Deacon from the mural like a warning sign (pictograms) only

I don't think so. Holloway said: "Just another tomb". I think the Deacon-like creature in the mural is the source of Black Goo. Or a messiah for Engineers, or a special creature that gives Engineers their power. And Engineer's head in center is a scientist or a conqueror who has curbed this power. Perhaps the engineers of LV-223 want to resurrect this creature.

And, I think, we need Lara Croft for this mystery. :)

chli

The Engineers from the hologram in Prometheus could be rather running from some accidental, or caused by some sabotage, black goo spill / contamination.

The head they found inside the sanctuary displayes some new cells in a state of change and some black goo started to drip from the temples after they run a stem line into locus coeruleus. 

The pile of dead Engineers suits had holes everywhere, from helmets to boots, it reminds of the effect of black goo on the Engineers from planet 4.

There is no mention of the xenomorph in Prometheus. The Deacon was the result of a black goo chain reaction on Holloway, Shaw and the last surviving Engineer, but just to prove, IMO, that the human genome was needed to achieve the xenomorph in its bipedal form. There were other manifestations of the black goo on worms and Fifield. It confirms its limitless potential what David said in Advent:

"t is essentially a form of radical AI. Making the substance unbelievably chaotic. That generates a unique reaction, to every genome it encounters. Reshaping life. Virtually limitless in its potential & application."

The Deacon was probably what inspired David to create the xenomorph. 

I don't know what to say about the murals, are they part of the "Mystery Box"? Was the Deacon from the mural like a warning sign (pictograms) only: "Caution! Do not sleep with your wife if you ingested black goo! This is what will happen! We hardly nailed that burster!"

We have no other clue in Prometheus that the Engineers created the xenomorph. 

We have all clues that David created the xenomorph in Alien Covenant. 

The films are canon, novelisations are not.

So all credit goes to David.

BigDave

I suppose the derelict is the cargo ship, not the bomber, I did not see in that hold any systems to deploy the bombs like we see in Alien Covenant, when David wipes out the Engineers from the sky. Also it would not help throwing the eggs like bombs, as you well said it.

On the other hand, we should consider the eggs, despite their shape, are not really eggs so there is no need of an egg laying queen. The eggs are like a shell meant to protect / preserve / contain the facehugger, or like individual incubators. They are ovoid in shape and organic, but their role is same as the urns are for the vials containig the black goo.

How to deploy the eggs as weapons? That's a good question. I believe you need an army of androids to do that or ROVs. Another way would be to capture hosts from the target location, have them facehugged and the return them where they were taken from, the xenomorphs would then do the cleansing. That's a bit tricky and cannot work forever, even if the xenomorph is a very resilient and its killing efficiency is outstanding, it is not invincible, we saw Daniels killing 2 without any weapons. It makes me wonder if this theory with the xenomorph as bioweapon is a valid one, I mean they can win a battle, but not the war. And when you have a devastating weapon as the black goo, why bother with the xenomorph? Even the LV223 Engineers wanted to wipe out the Earth with the black goo.

I know that most fans would disagree, but unless the xenomorph is an ancient, natural species, it makes sense to me that it can be the result of a derailed android who dreamt to be the creator of a perfect organism.

I watched again Covenant and yes, we are told that David created the eggs from the basement, he only lacked one final ingredient: a human host.

Regarding the Engineers' wolf and lamb, mentioned by David in Advent, I now believe they are the 2 variants of black goo, the one that destroys, used by David to destroy the Engineers,  and the one that gives life following a consensual sacrifice of an Engineer. A ritualic sacrifice that would cleanse all the Engineers of their sins.

As for the sketches with the classic egg, chestburster and xenomorph from David's lab, I believe they are the concepts he wishes to achieve. Let's not forget that even though the classic chestburster has a primitive look compared to the one from Covenant, it is the biomechanical chestburster and we are not yet there, even Ridley Scott said the evolution of xenomorph is "nearly over", so we are yet to witness the creation of the biomechanical xenomorph. 

I will only add that in an interview from 2017, before Covenant was released, Ridley Scott said: “We’ve come back with a very simple idea. Who made them? No one ever asked that question. [Alien] was just about there it is; it exists. And this is what it is … So we’ve reinvented the idea of Alien, I think, which is that Covenant gets us a step closer to who and why was this thing designed to make human beings. And if you think it’s them [the Engineers], you’re dead wrong.”

Since this topic is about whether or not David created the xenomorph, I would like to elaborate somewhat concerning that.

The information in Prometheus is ambiguous. The black goo either comes from or creates a xenomorph creature. The mural depicts the xenomorph life cycle. The hologram shows engineers running from something and those who don’t make it in time to the closing safety doors ends up dead with holes in their chests. Shaw births a huge face hugger (the trilobite) and an engineer births the deacon (with xenomorphic traits).

Still, it could perhaps be argued that this is not the real biomechanical alien . . .

The novelization of Prometheus was only released in Japan (it would have been an interesting read) but the differences compared to the film can be read about in Xenopedia. However, the other novelizations, by Alan Dean Foster, are available (I recently read his novelization of “The Thing”. Very good!).

In Foster’s novelization of Alien: Covenant the encounter between David and Oram is somewhat different from the film. After killing the neomorph Oram follows David into his lab:

“Oram found himself filing past a row of tall, menacing bipeds. Their tough exoskeletons gleamed like black steel. Though there were slight individual variations, all had in common the same threatening aspect - long tails ending in scorpion-like points, curving elongated skulls devoid of visible eyes, and jaws filled with teeth shining like chromed chisel.”

Later on, David shows Oram an old, petrified egg with a petrified facehugger inside. As Oram winces, David says:

“In case you are wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers’ skill. And also, I suppose, of their hubris. Would that I could create something so perfect in its function”

As for story and screenplay, Paglen, Green, Logan, and Harper are credited.

Everything sounds fine to me except for David or The Company creating the eggs. That makes it less Alien-y somehow.

I agree a mix of 1 and 8 seems best. Based on readings and Giger art, it seems the original Juggernaut landed on top of an egg silo and the magic began.  

Thanks Ignorant Guy...

I have corrected it, what happened was i decided to add a 8th option that was NEVER any actual Draft idea or Movie, but just some of HR Gigers ideas/interpretation and i placed this Option above the Conclusion to 7 lol

@Leto

I agree i am glad we never had 2, and i am not pleased with the 7th route...   but i think its the intention, but then it needs some changing to make David merely the Middle Man.

When i saw ALIEN and the Franchise prior to the Internet Days (well widespread) i had the impression the Space Jockey had this Bio-Weapon for some kind of Unknown Conflict, or he had obtained them for some Experiment/Other Purpose.

The advent of DVD and Internet Use had allowed me to Study it more, where it then appeared to me like there was by NO Coincidence a Aesthetic Connection and the Space Jockey was some Bio-Mechanical being of similar construction to the Xenomorph... this does not mean the same... just as a Human is Constructed the same as a Horse but we are NOT the same... so they had that Bio-Mechanical Organism/Machine Aesthetic and this was a interesting Mystery to me.

I was drawn to the connection being the Space Jockey Race had Engineered a Weapon that they had Engineered from a combination of themselves and their Technology...

OR maybe the Eggs was how they would Procreate when used on a Certain Species.... but when used on Humans it Produced the Xenomorph instead. 

So i think Option 8 as far as using some of this could be a ideal way forward...

Your Option 9, is in essence taking Option 8 and expanding it..  because indeed HR Giger seemed to indicate the Xenomorph and Derelict sharing like a Aesthetic/Genetic Connection and the Ship acted as like a Queen.

The Xenomorph becomes a Derelict, is a interesting idea, its one that had been thrown about on here before... its a Question of does ONE become the Ship, does a Queen eventually become a Ship and HOW does the Queen fit with this idea?

I think for me the Biggest Problem with the Xenomorph being the Hierarchy of it all, as in they create the Ships or become them... is IF the Cargo and Mission is that Important it seems pretty Foolish to allow a Enslaved Race to Pilot the Ship when they can be infected with the Cargo and then where does that leave you as far as where you Off-Spring will now end up?

I think introducing something else thats Bio-Mechanical could work, that Enslave the Space Jockey in return for something... but then its a case of what relation are the Eggs to those Masters?

Exploring that those Eggs are NOT intended for Mankind, but something else that would Benefit or Procreate their Species (Master Race) but that when these Eggs infect Humans then the Off-Spring become something different and more Feral than intended.

And so NOT say the Ultramorph Species... as intended..

So yeah i think introducing the Starbeast Plot with a touch of HR Giger ideas is the way to go...

@daliens

Good Point about the Bomber and Cargo Ship, i think we have to look at the Derelict as a Bomber and ASK!  How does that Work?

To me dropping Eggs from Height seems unlikely,  for them to all LAND up right and suffer no Damage?  Nah i cant buy that!  so you have to ASK about HOW are the Eggs deployed as a Weapon?

The Black Goo is a FAR more Superior Weapon IMO!

@Gavin

While we have had the Company willing to Sacrifice Innocent and unaware in order to obtain the Xenomorph or Spread it....  I dont quite buy the David informs W-Y about Planet 4 so they send out the Covenant to Planet 4 purely to use the Colonist for Davids Experiments..

Its a bit LAZY and a Coincidence from a writing perspective, but then i have not been impressed with Logans Writing at all, not for Alien Covenant...  Looking at the Advent, then this again seems to be just a Lazy and Plot Convenient Route to get Thousands of Eggs...

Such a Plot as they knew David was there, would imply that its likely Walter would be a Secret Agent who was sent to obtain the Xenomorph and then GET-RID of David

I found Alien Covenant had too many lazy Plot Conveniences and not Very Imaginative really, which gave me some concerns that John Logan had been penning Alien Covenants Sequel!

I think there are a lot of Clues that should not had been clues, but as they are there they can be interpreted and used as such when they could be merely Red Herrings.

IGNORING what ADF had put in his Novel (it would be interesting to see what made him put that, his idea/interpretation or was it in a early draft?).

If we throw that out, then Davids Workshop still has drawings of a Classic Chest Buster?  Evidence of David actually discovering the Ancient Xenomorph?  Or did he create that also but chose to Evolve it to his Alien Covenant version... but then WHY does the Less-Evolved one (well his prior one) turn up on the Derelict?

But then in his Workshop is a VERY Bio-Mechanical Specimen as far as a Drawing that is more Mechanical than the Xenomorph.

Did David Create this? Did the Engineers? or was it just something David had in his mind, that he just drew for Fun or as a aim to achieve... doing his own Concepts for what he may wish to achieve?

If so could the image of the Classic Xenomorph and Egg be the same?   

If Alan had came across such sketches when working on the NOVEL they could have lead him to ASSUME that David discovers the Preexisting Egg.

These are concepts etc by Hatton and Hallett and many may have been added to the Work-shop for nothing more than the LOOKS COOL effect, which could lead us to some conclusions that are not intended.  (Prometheus Mural maybe likewise).

Davids notes do talk of a Ancient Cruel Sacrificial Ritual, but gives no indication to what... so its ambiguous... was this for Xenomorphs or Similar, for Black Goo Experiments (i mean they are going to need Test Subjects)  or could it have been to Seed Worlds like the Sacrificial Engineer? 

Who knows...

I find it VERY Stupid for the Engineers to contain and use Xenomorphs on that Planet if it is their Home-world... you would expect them to take Sacrifices to say another World like LV-223 and conduct them there!

But i guess we cant rule such things out!

My interpretation of Planet 4 and the Hanger etc and Juggernauts Purpose is VERY different to the Derelict. And well also what they ended up using them for in Prometheus... i saw them Originally as maybe Advanced Seeding Ships.

I think LETO ambiguity is not a problem as long as they had a idea of how A connects to Z, but a lot of it seemed they never had a Real Solid Plan... sometimes people like Mystery some like Spoon Feeding.... i think they needed the Balance, and while study of Prometheus and comments by Production and other things can give us a better understanding... Most People are just going to watch the Movie and not bother with extra material (or Re-watch it over and over) and so i feel Prometheus was just a bit too Ambiguous.. but as Lindeloff had said... if it was NOT so then there would not be so much to debate.

"A weed is a plant just like a flower, but to the gardener, a weed is less desirable than a flower "

Thats a good point Gavin and also Leto's reply, its Ambiguous to what connection such Gardening Involved... i feel anything that Steers More closer to Ancient God Mythos and Steers away from something VERY ALIEN could be seen as a Distraction from what ALIEN was about.

There are repeating Multiple Layers of this Creation ARC...  some were expecting something that would link more to a SOUL, a After-Life and meeting more God-like beings... to me Prometheus was not about that but i wont go into detail because well it would require a long post thats OFF TOPIC and would not appeal to many.

I think something more Surreal, Lovecraftian should be explored something Horrific.... But i am not quite buying the MILLIONS of years old RACE who created the Derelict and Eggs, then used the Engineers and used them to Create Mankind all for the Purpose of Harvesting... because well we have to assume this Process takes Millions of Years...

Unless our Xenomorphs or whoever Created the Heavens and Earth and Mankind 6000 years ago LOL

I think we could look at Planet 4 as a Garden of Eden, where those beings were Taken to then allow for Mankind to had existed but depending how we explore this PLOT, it really comes down to what role the Xenomorph had... and for some Fans the whole Gods and Creators is just taking the Franchise away from ALIEN... the whole Xenomorph was a Engineered Weapon Created a Long Time after the Engineers went around Seeding Worlds and so the ALL-TIME Agenda was not...  Seed Worlds, to then come back Tens of Thousands or Millions of years later to USE them as HOSTS.

Which i think does-not set well with some fans... but the Prequels was intended to NOT be a ALIEN movie as in cover in depth the Xenomorph... it was to go and do its own thing about the Engineers and Creation, but this BOLD Plot was a bit of a Poisoned Challace...

A distraction for some from the XENOMORPH and maybe in Hindsight the Space Jockey should have been some Ancient Race, FAR FAR away from Home with that CARO and for some Mystery Reason.

The Problem is HOW do you introduce Humans?  It would have to be they just by Coincidence appear around LV-426 and discover a Outpost or the Derelict, or they detect the SOS and Investigate... which well was already done in ALIEN.

IF the Space Jockey was a Alien Species who are NOT Connected to Earth, and he was carrying a Bio-Weapon then we have to ask for what Conflict and Where, and where are these WARING Races or Factions.

Do we explore them? How do you introduce Human Characters, and WHY have Mankind not came across any of this Conflict in the Franchise.

IF the Space Jockey are just seeding the Xenomorph for some other Reason, we have to ask WHY and for what Benefit, if its to spread the Xeno across the Galaxy then HOW far had they got in the Galaxy and WHY had they not ever managed to be successful with Mankind.

The Creators/Gods Plot allowed them to introduce Humans via Dr Shaw and Holloways Findings..   The Potential at some point they wished to UNDO us with a Bio-Weapon that proved to be Costly to themselves which they maybe then Abandoned and just in their Ignorance and Naivety thought that they would just let Mankind ROT on Earth, as its not like without the Engineers we would NEVER evolve to the point of being able to Travel the Stars, and so again another Hubris. (First messing about Creating Horrific Bio-Weapons).

There is so many different routes to explore the Agenda of the Space Jockey Race... thats its hard to come up with a PLOT that will please everyone...  WHY i canceled my projects.

I will throw this into the debate!

The Source i had seemed to claim Mankind played the Bigger Role in the Xenomorph and we are 4th/5th Generation of Mankind, the Engineers are Genetically connected to us,  they (i assume LV-223) are more in common with David than us...  The Engineers are NOT the Gods...

Sounded a bit ODD to some when i passed that on in early March 2015

But then after Alien Covenant over 2 years latter we had these concepts by TWO Artist (Steve Messing and Wayne Haagg) and we have to ASK... what the Hell did these mean?

Those beings DONT look Engineer but HUMAN.

I think for me Dan O'Bannon, Ron Shusett and HR Giger are truly the ones who gave us what we had, others such as Giler and Hill did add some elements but i feel especially without Giger and O'Bannon the Franchise would not have been what it was.

Ridley Scott should be praised for influencing the Studio to go with the things that gave us ALIEN.  But then when it comes to the prequels we could argue that he should have FOUGHT for what he was happy with at First..

The Tone Down of Xenomorph Clues, and No similar Monsters was a Mistake, it never had to be fully Alien Engineers, but a bit more of Alien Engineers surely was needed.   Alien Covenant?  Well i think that really was a disappointing route, but we have to consider the Studio had pressured him to TONE down the Xeno for the First Prequel and then FORCE in the Xeno in the second Prequel.

You sense RS was not a Fan of that Direction with some of his comments like "they want $"£%$£^ Aliens, i will give them $"£%£$^ Aliens"  and how he FELT he was ahead of the Curve with Prometheus.

But Ridley Scott still gets a lot of Stick, especially from Cameron Fans, i think some may have felt the Prequels should have been more about the Xenomorph and Queen. And it was like RS Prequels just ignored Aliens to some..

But then Cameron had ignored Alien and its Source Material to a degree also...  Space Jockey, Derelict?  Nah we dont need that.... those are Eggs and Eggs are Laid and Voila here is the Queen!

This really BUGS some Alien Fans (pun intended) but again i have defended the Queen (nope not the UK one but the Popper Queen lol) in that its a Logical Assumption to explore that Eggs are Laid, because well Eggs are either Laid or Change into Organisms that are usually Birthed.

The Xenomorph Life-Cycle from Alien DC was truly Alien, but as it was NOT in the Theatrical and as Ridley Scott was not part of the sequel, then Cameron was free to come up with a Queen, and the Hive Mind/Colony Plot. I know some Aliens fans were concerned at the time of the Prequels that THEY would do something to Discount/Diminish the Queen, but i am not sure thats what happened.

I think that we need to remember the Studio has a lot of say, and also David Giler and Walter Hill also. If Cameron got to make another Alien Movie you have to wonder if they would get involved or would we be able to get Cameron's  Discover a Queen, Lays Eggs, Xenomorphs on the Loose, Run and Shoot and Ripley Saves the Day Popcorn Flick! 

I think for some this could work, but i am not sure it would work if they continue with this Formula.... you have to add some NEW stuff...

The Prequels attempted to do this, and i think the idea in a ideal world was that the Prequels did something different and explored the Space Jockey/Engineers, and that we could see further ALIEN movies that would bring back the Xenomorph, but FOX just could not commit to making TWO such Movies at the same time.

I think we need to bare in mind Studio Influence that lead to Lindeloff and the Remove the Xenomorph Route, and also Problems with the HR Giger Estate that may have mean less of that Aesthetic.

Visuals are were RS excels but he does suffer from some OVERSIGHTS...  which indeed had led to some inconsistencies, such as the Engineers Size... which they should have used Special Effects like the LOTR/Hobbit.

I think RS gets a lot of blame for Alien Covenant... it was a wasted opportunity as far as Engineers, a not wise choice with the David Creates the Xenomorph.... but you could tell that Ridley Scott wanted to NOT cover the Xenomorph and he had intended to cover the Engineers more... but Studio Pressure and we got Alien Covenant.

I do wonder how much of a Influence RS will have on the Franchise from now on...

Maybe Disney should allow for Blomkamps bring the Gang Back and see what does it really offer different than what we have seen in Aliens/Alien Resurrection?

I think a ALIEN movie has potential... i just dont think it has to center just around the Queen and also NO bring the Gang Back... they are Dead!

But as its Easter Period... who knows maybe they can be Resurrected and Queens laying Chocolate Eggs (joke)

Melancholia with kirsten dunst was a great movie

 @ ignorantGuy,

Yes, Ash and Bishop were made by Hyperdyne Systems, and Call was an Auton (A synthetic made by synthetics), and yes the inference is that the Bishop from the USCSS Patna is human. I only mentioned IF he was a synthetic, as some believe, it would be the only other time we have seen two identical synthetics, and if Michael Bishop had been synthetic, the red blood could have been organic. Either way, Walter being on the crew of the Covenant raises eyebrows - the signal David sent as shown in Advent was sent before the events of the movie, like with the Nostromo, and possibly Hadley's Hope Weyland-Yutani greenlight the Covenant mission to Origae 6 knowing it will pass by the source of Davids signal. Was the Covenant a gift to appease David, or with Walter being onboard, was it instead a Trojan Horse?

As for Walter, being identical in terms of appearance to David shows that he does not necessarily have DNA in him, the trailer which you mention makes mention of DNA as a screening process (a futuristic equivalent of a status check for a credit card).

Walter being onboard the Covenant suggest some form of a contingency plan on Weyland-Yutanis part - being superior he should win in combat against David, if not the postulation that Walter could unknowingly be part organic would screw David over if David attempted to use Walters body to sneak aboard the Covenant, given the nature of the recreated organism (the Xenomorph) of which he gloats about in the advent transmission.

Yes, the franchise is a collection of pieces that don't all fit together but is it too much to hope for a possible theory or collection of theories that can bridge together the parts into a cohesive whole - I think not. As for conspiracy theory, wasn't that the point of Ash's inclusion into the script of Alien by Giler, to add the corporate conspiracy angle (an overused trope in '60's and '70's science fiction).

I think that Advent, in part answers the question of why W-Y wanted the Alien so badly - for the Nano AI Virus technology it is built from. The Covenant is the first (in terms of the timeline) example of the company doing whatever it takes, no matter the cost, to attain that technology.

2 & 7 worst options ever.

8 - best mixed with 1. 8 - best mixed with 1

So, it's my 9 route. Juggernauts (Derelicts) it's final form of alien. They travel around space and search worlds suitable for them. But who is the Space Jockey? Or he a slave/servant of alien race, or he is... an intruder! Look - the pilot's platform completely metallic/mechanical. In second option - he stole (and subjugated) the Derelict... but not the cargo.

ignorantGuy

Yep. Michael Bishop works for WY - he is an engineer. Not a big boss. He is human. But not the descendant of Weyland. Sorry but, every time someone mentions AvP - a big confusion happens.

This is the main reason why I use WY Report, not a fandom wiki. There's just a bunch of different information from separate universes: Alien and AvP.

@Leto I've re-watched the ending of the 2003 special cut of Alien 3 and that Bishop says he was the designer of the original and from the dialog it is kind of implied that he works for WY (the first time it is said that WY produces androids). 

He bleeds red and is in pain and according to https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Bishop the character was intended as human.

I agree, concerning the problems of David being the creator of the xenomorph, Gavin. There is an interesting discrepancy between Scott’s film AC and Foster’s novelization. Foster is more into the ancient technology of the engineers - the creators of both the pathogen and the xenomorph. There are also old and savage rituals comprising human sacrifice - the old ways which the engineers on Planet 4 have left behind long ago. In David’s lab, there is indeed an old petrified egg with a facehugger in it which David says (to Oram) that he wants to reproduce.

Scott has long been inclined towards the dangers of AI and synthetics (Blade Runner, Prometheus and AC) and the dangers of contacting extraterrestrials (probably influenced by Stephen Hawking).

if we don't consider AVP as cannon (as most likely not many do)

Regardless of whether, you think that the AVP is a canon or not. Bishop from Alien 3 is not Weyland. He is not even another director of the company! He just an engineer.

A weed is a plant just like a flower, but to the gardener, a weed is less desirable than a flower because of their ability to propagate unchecked without the need of the gardener. To the Space Jockey's the Xenomorph is the flower, all other life are weeds.

Best explanation. David also said: To Create, You Must Destroy. May be humans is not a "weeds" for engineers, but they they definitely "the soil" for aliens.

---

Many thousands of years ago a Juggernaut either landed on Earth or was discovered on Earth by Paleolithic/Neolithic humans who were then taken to

Also, Engineers being a few millennia old slaves sounds more plausible than being billions of years old creators capable of seeding life that will, billions of years later evolve to have a genetic match.

I used this idea in my early works. Engineers are primitive humans, who were abducted from Earth to serve the Master Race. Humans was be upgraded and then they rebelled against the Master Race. And after all - used they technology of Master Race.

Yeah, changed Engineers - strange moment. I think - it's no a plot aspect, but - budget. But... with inexpensive CG? Really strange. If any one ask me, I can say - it's discontinuity.

@Gavin If my theory is not valid why do they need human DNA for creating Walter androids, which you can lose if you can't pay anymore? (as you can see in the Meet Walter viral).

Why do you think that there is or can be made one great theory? WY are not confirmed to make androids in the first 2 movies. Ash is a  Hyperdyne Systems 120-A/2 model and Bishop from 3 could be a real human if we don't consider AVP as cannon (as most likely not many do). We don't know from what Call was made if I recall correctly.

You can have your own cannon but  I highly doubt you can make something coherent from something incoherent. And if Walter was sent to Planet 4 to kill David, why did he let him speak so much? Your conspiracy theory does not convince me at all.

@BigDave You have a lil' mistake. 7 has no conclusion but 8 has 2.