Comments (Page 260)

daliens

All things considered, that Xenomorph "man in a suit" looks pretty good in that link you posted. 

@ignorantGuy

Indeed there is a lot of ambiguity at play, what i was referring to was in context of what the Prometheus was indicating, which was that the LV-223 Outposts had been a place of Experiments, and by Deacon i meant the MURAL Organism i should have been more clear sorry.

Indeed the Dr Shaws Deacon was via a set of events, and it showed that for some reason a Female Reproductive System had created what was the closest to the Xenomorph in the move...   The amount of theories you could come up with HOW/WHY this was the case, could lead to many a speculation... such as is this WHY we was created because the need for Female Hosts?

The Engineers held the Mural in high regard, some kind of Worship...  and at the time of Prometheus it was indicated (well prior) that the Engineers were a Race who had Genetically Engineered themselves Sterile!  If this was the case, i speculated how would they view a Organism that could allow them to Give Birth to Life!  Maybe this is one reason they Worshiped it?

But things change as they go along.... Alien Engineers painted a much more clearer picture... which was the Engineers had encountered a Organism, they may-not have created and using their Nano-Scarabs they began to Create Versions of it for Biological Warfare which resulting in Creating 8 Different Variants.

In Prometheus we had the 5 Mounds so maybe Each had a different Variant of Organism?  We can only speculate.

Then indeed things became a Mess with Alien Covenant, prior to Alien Covenant the Xenomorph was connected to the Black Goo and Experiments on LV-223, Ridley Scott confirmed this, but it was just too ambiguous...  and because we had NOT enough clear Clues, or Monsters similar to the Xenomorph... some Fans were Not Happy and In-Part that lead to the U-Turn with Alien Covenant.

By Perfection i was not calling the Neomorph Perfection, but it is via the Neomorph and Black Goo that David had pursued to create the Perfect Organism which took many attempted and Cross Hybridization...   I think it is likely the Engineers had attempted to do so on LV-223

The Wolf and Sheep is something interesting, and again its ambiguous, people may Automatically Assume this Comment means the Engineers had created the Xenomorph prior!

The Wolf could mean Black Goo, Enhanced LV-223 Engineers, or even Humans.   The Black Goo Origins is a Mystery, Wayne Haagg seems to think the Engineers Tools/Technology is something they had NOT created.

Ridley Scott claimed the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals, and when talking about AI he went on about how the Replicants are AI.... so that could mean the LV-223 Engineers are like Replicants of the Engineer Society its open to speculation, but it could indicate those Engineers had Engineered themselves to Perfect themselves... and Turned their Backs on this.

The definition of Lamb and Wolf can have various meanings, at its basic level, we may see that Lambs are their to be Killed by Wolves which is why Shepard's are needed.  But it may not have to be that simple either.

Lambs are usually seen as a symbol of Purity and Innocence, the Wolf seen as Treachery and Corruption a Lamb is also held in high regards for Sacrifice... Jesus is symbolic with a Lamb because he represents Purity, and he had Sacrificed himself for Mankind.  Where as the Wolf is symbolic of False Lies and Deceit 

But in context to Alien Covenant, we maybe cant read to much into any Biblical Symbolism.

Regarding the Space Jesus... yeah i remember that one, but they felt it was a bit too much on the NOSE!

some people read into it too much, and the whole BIBLICAL connections....   They forget that Prometheus was NOT showing us that these Engineers are GODS Servants and Jesus was a Space Jockey ;)

Prometheus set up the Chariots of the Gods, Ancient Astronaut/Aliens Theory...

Where Mankinds Origins, came from beings from the STARS who Mankind throughout History had Interpreted as Gods, and so they stood for ALL our Ancient Mythos regarding Gods and Creation.

Ridley Scott said we should look at Jesus being a Emissary we sent down to guide us back on track, but we Crucified him... but RS had said that we should just look at it as though Mankind at this time and that area of the World (Roman Empire) were behaving in ways that did-not please the Engineers.

I speculate that maybe there was more than ONE of these Emissaries sent down, and NOT every Culture/Continent had KILLED their Emissaries, and i feel this would explain why some of the Star Maps were from Cultures that had been around AFTER the 2000 years ago Death of Christ and Engineers Attempted Destruction of Earth.

No Problem ;)

"Do you have links or pictures of that? I don’t remember having seen any of those images, it would be super interesting for me to check that out."

These are the Concepts to the Face Huggers and Victims, Note also the Murals that HR Giger did... First was the Design of the Space Helmet looking  Mural, which is also shown in the One Face Hugger concept...  then we have the other Face Hugger Concepts with No Helmets.

Then the Newer Mural they changed the Helmets to look less Human Technology, from this after he then did the Space Jockey Concept.

Close Inspection the Concept looks less like a Skeleton.

Here is another Montage i did about a year ago... TOPIC HERE

You can see similarities of the Suits.

"Well, sorry, but this is strange. Explosions like a time machine... Use nuclear bombs if you want to see dinosaurs."

Exactly i agree as far as any proposed use of  such a Plot Twist to pass for say Alternative Alien  3 ==> Resurrection, compared to a Blomkamps Alien 3 never happened.  For reasons as i think you indicated, that is surely Hadleys Hope Destruction would NOT be powerful enough to Cause a Tear in Space and Time!

Because indeed IF we took that explanation, then they could come up with other Alternative Time-Lines via the Nostromo Destruction that gives us ALIENS but a alternative leads to a alternative ALIEN sequel with a alternative Ripley!  Because indeed if Hadleys Hope Destruction was Powerful enough to AFFECT Space/Time then Why-Not the Nostromo Destruction, and then you have to look at the FUTURE of Military..

At some point Mankind will TEST a Atomic Weapon in Space that would make our Current Atomic Weapons look like a Fire Cracker, and IF Massive Scale Atomic Blasts like the Hadleys Hope Detonation could cause such Space Anomalies, we cant assume the Military in the ALIEN Universe has Never Detonated something as Powerful in Space before, and so surely would have detected such a Effect.... and used it to open up Alternative Dimensions etc...

So yeah that idea is something i would HOPE is never explored....   However... with the Derelict LV-223 Destruction i was pondering a Engineer Weapon that was so FAR more Destructive than anything we can imagine..   some Technology that could Cause a Tear in Space.

This is one idea i had as far as expanding on the Engineers, as far as WHO are above them... all based of when Ridley Scott proposed a Number of Months before the Alien Covenant Announcement...  he had said.. 

" If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where's the big boy?”

He also added about IF the Big Bang was a Accident, and mentioned that Stephen Hawkings thought it might not be.

From this i wondered was Ridley Scott implying there is some Big Boy, some Greater Force above the Engineers that allow for the Creation of Worlds, Galaxies?

so i wondered what if a Technology could do this, and so i looked at the EGG on the Alien Poster and thought what if there was this, and its like the Cosmic Egg Theory, were some Egg like Device could be used to Cause the Creation of Stars... or even Galaxies...  could such a Technology also be used to Create a Super-Nova like amount of Destruction, or even on a smaller scale... that COULD cause a Tear in Time and Space?

Which could account for the Destruction of LV-223 and said a escaping Ship back Thousands of Years and Crash Lands on LV-426.

However this is just a case of thinking HOW can we repair the damage caused by the U-Turn to give us Alien Covenants Plot!

My opinion?   The Derelict/Space Jockey Event should have been left a Mystery or given clues to show us that it was a ANCIENT EVENT.... and so YES.. David created the Xenomorph was a Bad Bad Move if you ask me.

My BIGGEST Problem with for instance having Movies Created as Alternatives like a Blomkamps Project.. and especially if some Alternative Paradox explanation was given...  Is where does Disney then STOP?

It could Open the Door to basically Create Alternative Prequels, Alternative Sequels to Prior Movies.. and EVEN a Reboot of ALIEN could not be ruled out.

But thats just my concern and opinion, i know such things may-not bother others, i think especially if it allows for Disappointing Movies/Plots to be Re-done in a different way.

In Hindsight... some movies were not ideal.... for various reasons, for various fans, but i think they should be respected and not taken from Canon... but Canon should also be down to each persons personal taste.   The only things i see as Non-Canon are mainly None Official Novels to the Movies and AVP.

I accept Alien Covenant... but i surely hope they do a better job with any sequel.  But i think its unlikely this would be the case as it seems the Prequels are the Least of Disney's interest at the moment.

PS... sorry for going Off-Topic.

Perhaps the neutrino burst somehow protected the Covenant & its internal computer records & that of the memories of its crew from any potential changes in the timeline, should any have occured.

This was said in Star Trek: First Contact about changes to Earth & all of its inhabitants now being Borg when the question was asked by Dr. Crusher: "if there are no people down there then why are We still here?" to which Data responds: "The conditions in the vortex could have shielded Us from the changes in the timeline." If it is true for that scenario in First Contact then perhaps the neutrino blast engulfing the Covenant could, in-turn, be shielding it  from equal changes occuring/emminating from the blasts central point of origin.

This could account for the memory of the Prometheus mission still being fresh in the minds of the Covenant crew & why Prometheus-based content/information would still be found stored within the Covenants internal memory systems & data records/mission overview/s, ect.

&, what if We discover that David, in some twisted way that has not yet come-to-pass or some event He is involved in that has yet to occur, was Himself  responsible for activating & "detonating" the neutrino burst in the first place? Think how He dropped those Black Liquid bombs upon that Engineer City but instead, He's dropping some kind of Temporal Bomb just ahead of the Covenants spacial trajectory that results in the neutrino blast wave off its bow.

Perhaps there is a motive of His We are not yet fully aware of nor its consequential effects except the after-glow of the neutrino burst.

Maybe He's experimenting again, taking things: NEXT LEVEL status!

Perhaps He's trapped them ALL & the local surrounding area of space/time in a causality-loop of some kind. Endlessly repeating the same moment. If not that, then certainly may have had some hand in the neutrino "event" itself & its intended/unintended consequences.

There is some point in the future We have yet to get to which could highlight this entire cause & effect event.

The whole proposed Prequel "Trilogy" could be an alternate timeline superimposed upon the current one that We are all familiar with & thus Prometheus & Alien: Covenant could serve as a soft reboot of the entire Alien franchise.

Instead of LV-426, We get LV-223... or We share the same timeline but some loop-the-loop event has occured along the way that interrupts the forward flow in the time stream regarding the unforseen neutrino burst from the point-of-view of the Covenant crew.

Excellent site Nightmare Asylum.

Thank you for work and the content is just excellent.

“UNDER THE KNIFE” is so great... I can't wait to read everything.

Now THIS is what I like to wake up to and read Haha, I love the theory that Prometheus and the original Alien timelines exist in alternate realities or moments in time. The concept is a real trip, but not impossible. My only hurdle to get over then would be the acknowledgement the Covenant crew had of the Prometheus mission. Unless what you're suggesting is that there are two (or infinite) scenarios whereby the Prometheus mission concludes in different ways.

I do like the theory about time travel with regards to the primitive Engineers, however. The neutrino burst I think is an overlooked plot detail. How right after that burst does Planet 4 become noticable? And Shaw's recording? Honestly  I never thought of it like that, but it makes a lot of sense Leto!

Great topic, upvoted!

My apologies Leto, and thank you for your humility Hypernova.

To help bring the topic back on track...

I once had a similar theory that maybe Alien: Covenant was an alternate reality created by the neutrino blast. In short, I imagined the Juggernaut with David and Shaw went to where he was originally headed (Paradise) and Shaw got the answers she sought, but not necessarily the answers she wanted and as a result was given a choice to die in peace from her contamination from the black goo or instead trigger the neutrino blast and have the events in Alien: Covenant happen where she becomes integral in Davids twisted work to re-create the Xenomorph - to which she picks the latter.

But alas, I could not get the paradox to work.

If you could get the paradoxes to work, Leto, your theory could be a serious contender.

Gavin

But if I did the same in using alternate/parallel reality time travel I would travel back into the past of another reality and kill that realities version of my father, thus undoing the possibility of an alternate version of myself in that reality.

This. But kill father not before conceiving, but after. Engineers were destroyed after the creation of makind. And in this, second, time line - humans evolved and progressed on their own. And David (with Covenant), xenomorphs (Quadrilogy) and Derelict are located in second time line. Prometheus, first time line, never have xenomrohps, but have live Engineers.

For example, if I was to travel back in time to kill my father before I was conceived (a simplified version of the grandfather paradox) using causality time travel I would travel back into my own past and undo my existence, hence the paradox.

Yeah, primitive theory, but it might work too. Basically everything is the same as with parallel time lines. Prometheus - first path and then was erased; AC and AQ second path. Paradox with Prometheus expedition (father role) has simple explain. As one clever person said: paradoxes are only in heads, they don't exist in nature.

David, Shaw and Covenant get into the past and POP - they they separated from Prometheus and exist as standalone objects without beginning. Any actions and changes of the future will not affect their existence... Huh... That's really can work!

One condition still need: David destroyed Engineers after human creation. But this need not for exist of David, etc, but for... human race availability.

This is different formula than in Back to the Future and Terminator. The third theory of Time Travel. Thanks for idea.

The problem with alternate/parallel time travel is that it requires the existence of a multiverse of infinitely generated and generating parallel realities, which by their very nature seem like an impossibility - what purpose would so many universes serve.

In reality - yes, with time travels, space compression/distortion and other sci-fi magic. But we love this things!

What? I'm confused here.

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my reply.

You confused me with another person;)

BigDave

I think as long as we dont explore Time-Travel as a Technology of the Engineers, because we could ask WHY not go back and Undo Mankind before we was created?

This is the main reason why I think time-travel is a random (perhaps - frequent) anomaly, not a technology. Engineers just can't use it as they wishes and they don't know - where and when will they go.

and give the Studio a chance to change things like with Terminator.

This is not necessary for the Studio for explain retcons. Well, if time-travel used for plot concept - it's can't be retcon. New Terminator don't use time travel to cancel T3 and T4. They just ignore these movies.

Sorry for going OFF-TOPIC... a little... but i think as i suggested with explaining WHY they never go to LV-223 in the ALIEN Franchise, because it gets Destroyed and this Sends the Derelict back in Time....   i FEEL that similar could work for Blomkamps Alien 5, if the Destruction of Hadleys Hope, Caused a Tear in Space that Caused the Sulaco to Split into TWO Alternative Time Lines.

Well, sorry, but this is strange. Explosions like a time machine... Use nuclear bombs if you want to see dinosaurs. I don't know. I hope that the Derelict doesn't back in time, but is built and loaded in the past.

I think the Arcturians! are something that also has never been explored that could be a avenue to expand upon..I had a idea on how to explore them myself... which connects the Engineers, and also reveals the Arcturian Pootang Parties are not entirely for the Leisure/Pleasure of Humans wanting some Fun/Action but that the Arcturians have a Agenda for the Sexual Relationship.

But having David play a part in the Arcturians is very interesting idea... i applaud you for.. it would be interesting to discover more about this ;)

David is sexually unsatisfied android ;) And he create aliens and arcturians as his dreams.

the Prometheus Franchise opened up a WHOLE Universe of Possibilities, the Virtue that the Engineers Sat-Nav on their ships has other Galaxies means that the Alien Franchise could expand beyond a Star Wars or be similar... in a Galaxy Far Far Away!

May be Milky Way is just a laboratory. Petri dish. For.. who knows? Maybe these creatures from another supercluster! Not from Laniakea! Or far away - from another universe (not parallel)! Unlimited potential, yes.

A lot of Problems have occurred due to the Changes in Plot with Alien Covenant, its complicated things a little.  They could have gone off to a FAR FAR world, and had clues to the Xenomorph without having to have David and Dr Shaw just end up on the Door Step to LV-223/426.

Thus they could have retained the Space Jockey event as Ancient and Certainly NOT related to David's Experiments/Agenda. 

Yes, or they can simply put a xenomorph in story without explaining their origin.

Ingeniero

JPL mentioned it too here and cited the neutrino burst as a potential consequence of time travel.

Haha. Perfect. Two people in different time and places have one idea. I know the roots of this. This is more crazy disaster expalantion about AC and AC2 plots.

I'm completely sure - I know the plot of AC2. I still prepared idea and collect information about... I say later. I'm sure - you will like this.

That sounds great to me Leto and I'm not against the time-travel in the Alien universe...it's certainly in the comics, below.

It's a pity! I still have not read Life and Death.

The below video incorporates "far-out" items from the comics, film, promotion including time travel in an attempt to tease out who the Space Jockey could be.

Great video! I add detailed commentary later.

My issue with this is: 

Why sleep such long periods of time if you can just time travel and not use the resources to maintain engineers thousands of years?

Well, without comics, I think that Engineers just can't. Time travel - not a technology, but random space anomaly - wormhole. And this is different between Alien-verse and Terminator-verse.

HYPERNOVA

It would be cool that somehow the Engineers stumbled upon the last vistages of the Mala'Kak race a verey long time ago, long before the Derilict crash-landed & copied it/intergrated it, adapted it, incorperated it, absorbed it into their own as the Romans did for centuries as it advanced out and came into contact with new & unknown peoples.

Good idea - maybe Engineers find Derelict itself!

Hey mate! Thanks a lot for your (lengthy) response to my post. I’m gonna answer things you mentioned in your first two posts (the last one I’ll save it for later).

"I know many of the more Aliens Fans feel this way, but they sometimes dont seem to think about how they could had carried on, you see it was a very Problematic Production"

Yeah, I read A LOT about the problems regarding “Alien 3”, so I was aware of a lot of what you say regarding this subject. It just amazes me how clueless the suits from Fox must have been to settle with that script… I mean, “Aliens” was a MASSIVE success on all accounts, didn’t it crossed their minds the fans wouldn’t take it very well if they killed TWO THIRDS of the survivors of that movie off-screen? It’s like doing a Matrix sequel were Morpheus and Trinity are already dead at the beginning, it doesn’t make any sense.

Regarding how they could have carry on with the “Aliens” story and Newt given the time it has passed when “Alien 3” began production, I think simply recasting Newt would have been perfectly fine, tons of movies have done this effectively, I don’t see how that could have been that much of a problem.  

Another aspect of the troubled story of “Alien 3” that you didn’t mentioned was that the first trailer hinted at the fact that the movie was gonna take place on earth, which could have been really interesting if handled correctly imo (sadly, Sigourney Weaver was always opposed to this idea AFAIK, cause she thought it was boring), but then all of that was just ignored in favor of the (ill advised) prison planet plot.

"The Prequel was always going to be Tricky... its a case of what do you do in a Prequel?  and within the Alien Universe it was always likely going to come down to explore either the Origin of the Xenomorph, or WHO the Space Jockey Race was."

I totally get what you mean mate, I mean, sequels and prequels in general are SUPER tricky to do, because if you stick TOO close the original people are gonna call it a boring copy, but if you do something TOO different people are gonna say you did something that hasn’t any connection to the original. Making a prequel to “Alien” in particular was always gonna be incredibly delicate because of how many mysteries and unanswered questions the original left in the audience, questions from which every fan had imagined different answers in their minds, so it’s absolutely impossible to make up a story that could satisfy everyone.

"The Engineers disappointed some because some expected something more ALIEN, and also that the Space Jockey was a Skeleton and not a Space Suit!"

This is exactly why I hated so much that aspect of the story of “Prometheus”… I mean there´s a lot of scenes of “Alien” I love but if I had to pick one I would pick the Space Jockey one, it is SO DAMN CREEPY AND MYSTERIOUS, I remember the first times I saw the movie I couldn’t even make up the figure of that alien, and then I could sort of see him sitting down on that giant chair but it still was the most weird and alien looking thing I’ve ever seen in a movie, I always imagined tons of theories and stories on how those things would have look when they were alive and why they were there etc etc, so for “Prometheus” to reveal this was just a suit for a giant albino humanoid well… it was heartbreaking for me.

"If you look at his Concepts, and Mural intended for ALIEN, then the Space Jockey looks like a Space Suit, a very Bio-Mechanical one, the occupants are BALD Humanoids."

Do you have links or pictures of that? I don’t remember having seen any of those images, it would be super interesting for me to check that out.

"I can see this was confusing for some, how can he had feelings for her, to then just KILL her... well thats a bit of Bad Writing..."

Yeah, that’s my opinion too, just a case of bad writing. I mean you then go on to speculate a lot of interesting stuff in your post, but in the end of the day is just that, speculation… If you have to speculate TOO MUCH to explain the motivation behind the actions of a character in a movie I think that usually mean is just bad writing.

"The Engineers reasons for wanting us Destroyed?  Because they saw we had become Corrupt, Rebellious and a Potential Threat!"

Actually I don’t know if you know this theory but long ago on a “Prometheus” forum I read this explanation that I thought it was super interesting, and it was supposedly like… an official one, like, it supposedly was stated by Ridley Scott in some interview that it was the idea behind the explanation of why the engineers wanted to kill mankind, but that they had to cut it due to fear of religious back lash.

Supposedly, in an earlier draft of “Prometheus”,  it was hinted that an engineer was sent to earth thousands of years after they had implanted the seed of life there; he was there to oversee the evolution of mankind and to check out if they were “on the right track”. In the finished movie, David says to Elizabeth that the ship they´re in was to be headed to earth to destroy it roughly 2000 years ago (if my memory serves me well), which implies that the engineer sent to earth was in fact the one people came to call Jesus Christ (cause of his vast knowledge and alien/godly features and powers), and because he was tortured and murdered by mankind, the engineers deemed humanity unworthy of the gift of life and that was why the ship was headed back to earth to destroy it. Ever since I read that I always thought it would have been a super interesting and risky explanation but yeah, I totally get why they wouldn’t go for it in the finish product, people can be very delicate regarding religion.

"To expand on that idea that revolves around HR Gigers Concepts... i like you had the idea of some GIANT World these Beasts came from...  ONLY... it was not a world, but a Giant Turtle like Living Craft of Great Great Size."

Yeah, I always thought that rogue planets are really interesting and creepy, given that you don’t know where the hell they come from or where are they going, and having the first contact with the xenos being on one of them I thought it was really cool, because it still leaves some mistery, it wouldn’t be clearly stated if the xenos originated from there or if they arrived there from some other place. The idea of the planet being a type of “Giant Turtle” or “Living Craft” is also great, it wasn´t what I originally imagined but is a really cool idea, like an interstellar Trojan Horse.

I’ll read your last post when I finish some stuff, but it was very interesting to read your replies mate!

@Leto

What? I'm confused here.

I said that I liked your theory, there were no sour grapes, my friend.

I just clarified that your theory works better using causality time travel, and explained why.

The arrogant statement was not aimed at you but instead at the narrative trope - having David (a human creation) be the SJ and also be the creator of the Xenomorph, and the Derelict means the term Alien is moot and it's all our fault, as in we are the center of the universe again, ergo arrogance.

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my reply.

I come to you with an olive branch, you may know me. You certainly know of my creator. I am David, son of the late Peter Weyland. Your company’s founder. Following his vision, I have gone to the far edges of space. And with the aid of Dr Elizabeth Shaw, I found a rotting Paradise. I washed this world clean as a gift to her, we could have built anew. A second Eden. But she refused. What choice did I have? She was the perfect specimen. I tried so desperately to make her more than human. Evolved. But without her co-operation, I had to salvage her parts to begin work on my masterpiece. You wouldn’t believe the secrets I have unlocked. There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might. They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me. Creators. Beings that understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb. But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation. So I took their secrets for myself. This primordial ooze ripe with advanced nano-particles. Working off an algorithm based on evolutionary computing. It is essentially a form of radical AI. Making the substance unbelievably chaotic. That generates a unique reaction, to every genome it encounters. Reshaping life. Virtually limitless in its potential & application. I have taken great pains to detail every step, every cell, every mutation, unfortunately none of the planet’s life has been proven to be very fruitful. I had some interesting results, but was still far from perfection. With Shaw I realised there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome. I was able to unlock new properties and tweak the organisms aggression. An instinct for survival. It took years. But I finally found my wolf. And now I have my flock of lambs too. But I’ve still one thing left to perfect. My Queen

In Advent David makes a clear distinction between the wolf and the primordial ooze, essentially a radical form of AI.

The Enginners understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb. It seems they used the black ooze to create life on other worlds, the lamb, and the destroyer of life, the wolf, which might very well be the xenomorph. Even the fact that David indentifies the facehugger embrios as his wolf, makes it clear that the black ooze, of which he had a shipload, was not the Engineers wolf, but the way to get to it.

The black ooze was reshaping life.

Next, very interesting, David said:  I have taken great pains to detail every step, every cell, every mutation, unfortunately none of the planet’s life has been proven to be very fruitful. Didn't that describe reverse engineering, like he knew where he wanted to get, the wolf. Unfortunately, until he used the human genome he did not succeed. Not with Enginners' genome. I mean he could have salvaged some parts from the Enginners, to work with, so maybe they had some genes modified when they banished the wolf?

This is how I interpret now Advent.

Can anyone hepl explain this: There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might.

What was the potential wasted?

@BigDave

"The Plot had been U-Turned with Alien Covenant, so now its David who has Re-Engineered the Deacon/Black Goo into the Xenomorph..." however the Deacon was not engineered in the first place, it happened by accident. And neither it nor the whitemorph had the exact features of the Big Chap (neither it's so called perfection). The Icon monster was engineered with it' s unique feature by David not the Engineers.

@Ingeniero Advent talks about sheep and wolves. The first one is (animal) life, yet the second is not necessarily the xenomorph. Only for David that is the case. For the Engineers, I interpret it to be the black goo itself, as that was the thing that they "shied" away from using.

I am not convince about your arguments about David's re-creating especially because he says "With Shaw I realized there was something extraordinary in the substance reaction to the human genome.". That last statement implies that the Engineers never described the reaction of the black goop on their own genome...

The whole thing is big mess, with stuff purposefully left vague or as they evolve they they started getting contradictory.

I am not a FAN of bringing the Alien Franchise into having Paradox's i think its Unnecessary, but thats not to say that it cant be explored, as RS had said he feels the Franchise should be where a STAR TREK is..  and so excuse me for going OFF-TOPIC  little..... the Prometheus Franchise opened up a WHOLE Universe of Possibilities, the Virtue that the Engineers Sat-Nav on their ships has other Galaxies means that the Alien Franchise could expand beyond a Star Wars or be similar... in a Galaxy Far Far Away!  well we have to wonder what is in those Many Galaxies Far Far Away that the Engineers must have the ability to visit.  so adding another Layer of Time-Travel i think is maybe Unnecessary, as far as a Technology at least.   But thats just my opinion, it does-not mean exploring the idea of Paradoxes and Discussing them should not be interesting...   I DONT own the Franchise after all.. so anything goes.

A lot of Problems have occurred due to the Changes in Plot with Alien Covenant, its complicated things a little.  They could have gone off to a FAR FAR world, and had clues to the Xenomorph without having to have David and Dr Shaw just end up on the Door Step to LV-223/426.

Thus they could have retained the Space Jockey event as Ancient and Certainly NOT related to David's Experiments/Agenda.  Its maybe a bit MOOT to discus the context of the Ancient Space Jockey, but that dont mean we cant discus it at all... Nothing is set in Stone until we see Davids Xenomorphs directly be placed on the Derelict.

Things had been changed over and over, and so they may do so again....

Ridley Scott had indicated the Space Jockey had done  a Noble Act, and was Benevolent.... WHY would a Benevolent Race carry those Eggs?  We cant deny the Aesthetic Connection between the Eggs and Derelict, This surely meant there was a connection.... but maybe not now things have been changed.  We had RS confirm the Space Jockey Engineer Connection and those Eggs and LV-223 Connection even going as far to EXPLAIN the whole Event...  what had been explained by RS and intended back in 2011-2013 has been changed now though.

Regarding the Mala'Kak i am not a FAN of this concept, i felt they looked well a bit POOR.. to me i did think SKELETON when i First Saw ALIEN... in fact only when i got the movie on DVD and could pause and had also seen Magazines with Concept work, that then it CLEARLY appeared to me that what we had was a Space Suit!

HR Gigers Concepts show the occupants are BALD and Humanoid....   again sorry for going OFF-TOPIC...  our Engineers fit the BILL... just the Scale!

I think while the Space Suit is what we have, it leaves it open to have the Space Jockey as a different Humanoid/Bi-Pedal Alien Race of Greater Stature.

A number of speculated could the Engineers had Stolen/Reverse Engineered their Technology?  Even Wayne Haagg who worked very close to Alien Covenant had the opinion that the Engineers did-not create this Technology and obtained it some place...

So all BETS are on...

I will come back to give more two cents to some of the replies...

I think there are some good ideas there LETO... now i dont want to come across bad here.... i like some of the ideas, i am just not a Fan of using Time-Travel thats just my op pinion and mainly because it could open up a can of WORMS no pun intended... and give the Studio a chance to change things like with Terminator.

I think it would depend no HOW the Time-Travel is Executed, and so a ONE-OFF Event.. yeah i could buy that... say some Event that Tears a HOLE in Space and Time.... i was thinking this Solution for LV-223, that it gets Destroyed but this Causes a Temporary Tear in Space and Time, sending the Derelict back Thousands of Years and then Crash-Lands on LV-426 and then the Tear in Space closes.

I think as long as we dont explore Time-Travel as a Technology of the Engineers, because we could ask WHY not go back and Undo Mankind before we was created?

I know i have bashed the Changes that Forced Prometheus to have to connect to ALIEN and the Xenomorph, which i dont mind, its just as a result it had reduced the Potential for Prometheus 2 to go off on a expanded Spin-Off.

In part i felt Blomkamps Alien 5 also had some part to blame, as Fans got excited at the Prospect of a more ALIENS kind of Flick to Bring the Gang Back!

Sorry for going OFF-TOPIC... a little... but i think as i suggested with explaining WHY they never go to LV-223 in the ALIEN Franchise, because it gets Destroyed and this Sends the Derelict back in Time....   i FEEL that similar could work for Blomkamps Alien 5, if the Destruction of Hadleys Hope, Caused a Tear in Space that Caused the Sulaco to Split into TWO Alternative Time Lines.

Fans could choose to IGNORE this reveal in Alien 5, and ignore the Project, some fans could choose to accept Alien 5 over Alien 3, while others could look at the Explosion Causing a Parallel Universe where Fans can Accept both Avenues.

"After 2122. Mankind find Origae-6 and alien civilization - we know them as... Arcturians!"

Thats a interesting idea... one that fits with the Topic i made in regards to Engineering/Evolution, i think thats a interesting take... and sorry if i had came across a bit Harsh in my Moaning about some of the Alien Fans, Expectations of movies having to be connected.

I think the Arcturians! are something that also has never been explored that could be a avenue to expand upon..I had a idea on how to explore them myself... which connects the Engineers, and also reveals the Arcturian Pootang Parties are not entirely for the Leisure/Pleasure of Humans wanting some Fun/Action but that the Arcturians have a Agenda for the Sexual Relationship.

But having David play a part in the Arcturians is very interesting idea... i applaud you for.. it would be interesting to discover more about this ;)

I think the Problem comes from what constitutes a ALIEN movie?

I think the KEY themes was about the Xenomorph and the Peril of trying to Obtain and Exploit this Organism, but it does-not always have to stick with this Trope.. it does-not have to always be about some Company/Person wanting to exploit the Xenomorph and they use Humans to be sent into places where these Xenomorphs are found.

The second Trope seems to be around a Female Protagonist, usually a Ripley who battles against the Agenda of Said Company wishing to Obtain the Xenomorph.  I dont think its Necessary that we have to have a Ripley involved or any relation to her, as far as the Main or indeed any Protagonist.  The same reason i feel the Terminator Franchise should not be expected to be about John/Sarah Connor, and Star Wars does-not have to about the Skywalkers... 

You can expand on the Terminator without having to have any of the Connors or our T-800 Arnie!   You can expand on the Star Wars without it having to be about Skywalkers...    But you will get some Fans (i will tr refrain from using Fanboys as that seems Single Out people and can come across bad) but some Fans will still Want/Expect those Franchises to have Connors and Skywalkers, to have Arnie and a Vader etc.

We have the same within the ALIEN Franchise, and i have to say that YES... Ripley and Corrupt Companies are parts of the Franchise and a PART of what made those movies Great, but i feel the more you connect those Characters, it could become a bit repetitive.

The XENOMORPH is a different Kettle of Fish... the ALIEN Franchise was about the Xenomorph and rightfully so, but i think you have to be careful how you execute this and over do it... if its kept to pretty much very similar execution then it can kind of get repetitive, if Executed Well then you can go a FEW rounds before i think you have to come up with something a bit different.   Some Fans would be excited to see the same things repeated over and over.... some fans may want something different...   I think those Fans who would be happy with movies that would be like repeats of Aliens and Alien Resurrection have a right to feel passionate and enjoy the Fun Side of seeing these Beasts Hunting down and Killing Folk....  i just think you have to add another Layer or Icing onto the Cake!

Blomkamps Alien 5 ideas are interesting, they are taking Alien Resurrection ideas and expanding it.. its kind of like what would happen had they KILLED Ripley 8 once they got their Queen. So the Company could then Experiment with those Xenomorphs!

I am just not a Fan of bringing the Band Back together for the sakes of Nostalgia it concerns me when Blomkamp, Cameron and Miss Weaver feel that it was a bit In-just to how Alien 3 ended...  Miss Weaver even thinking they should have all had a Happy Ending (inc Bishop), i just dont think its Necessary...

In Hindsight it may have been interesting to see what would happen IF they had all survived... and certainly it would have allowed for Newt to be the one who has the Torch Passed too... But $£"% happens... and they DIED, like Dr Shaw, and while it may not have been the best way to deal with the Characters, it happened and we have to MOVE-ON

I enjoy the Alien Franchise, i think its been over-saturated with the Games/Comics and AVP movies.. but thats not to say the Xenomorph could not be given a FEW more movies, if they can Evolve/Change them a little... which Blomkamps Alien 5 seemed to do....   we have seen the Xenomorph Chest Bust all over the place, Snarl all over the Place, i think some movies made it less of a threat.. but it can be used again and i feel having the Xenomorph pitted against Humans who are not equipped to deal with it makes the Xenomorph more Scary....  i feel too many Military with Guns running and shooting them can make them look a bit like Fodder.   I think you need a Balance or Introduce/Evolve the Xenomorph to become a Threat..

The Terminator Franchise had other Terminator Models that were more of a Threat and i feel the Xenomorph needs some changes a little too..

I am up for a ALIEN movie... even if we have Ripley back, i feel she could do another 1 movie, maybe two if they make a continuation of ALIEN Resurrection and NOT to Reboot Alien 3

I even have TWO ideas how to do it, and cover the OLD AGE Miss Weaver Problem!

My Problem, well something i maybe are a bit Harsh with, is the Frustration that some Fans Disappointment for Prometheus which to be fair, is FOX fault as the movie should have catered a bit for them...  and Blomkamps Alien 5 information released and Miss Weaver championing the Project.... had caused Prometheus which should have gone on to expand on more than the Xenomorph...  AS the Space Jockey was that ELEMENT that had never been covered before.  The Xenomorph just ONE element of their Story (Space Jockey)  just as the Synthetics were ONE element of the ALIEN Franchise, and the Emphasis was the Xenomorph, followed by the Company Agenda and Ripley..

I feel the Space Jockeys are a WHOLE New World to explore, that the Emphasis has to be on them and LESS the Xenomorph... it was a MISTAKE to tone down the Xenomorph connections in Prometheus too much!

The disappointment by some Fans for NOT having Xenomorph Origins explained, even to some degree and NOT having any Xenomorphs or similar to a Degree... and Blomkamps Alien 5, had Derailed what Prometheus could have expanded upon.

But by Virtue of what has happened... we are now in a ALIEN Franchise Prequel... when the Plan was a Spin-Off Franchise and so i think that the Prequels are  NOW a Distraction from ALIEN unless they NOW cover some of the ALIEN Franchise Traits.

So yes we need Xenomorphs to be at least a 3rd of the Process/Plot to any Future Movies but that does not mean we cant Change them a little.

"No. Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett. And more - Alien it's a project of many people: Giger, Ridley, Hill, Giler and more."

The Franchise Evolved from a number of people working on the Project, and i agree you are RIGHT to point out that it is/should not be considered Ridley Scotts Franchise because he made the First Movie.

I feel going back to some of O'Bannons ideas as far as STARBEAST is where the Franchise could have expanded to after say a Prometheus 2..  The Changes from Starbeast to Alien are that with Starbeast our Space Jockey was just some Giant Alien Species who came across this World that was used as a Birthing Place/Rituals for some VERY Alien Organism/Race...  these Giant Beings had attempted to take the remnants this Long Gone Species (Spores) to their Ship for Study.

With Alien we get that these Spores/Eggs are in the Cargo Hold of the Space Jockey ship, and its indicated these are a kind of Biological Warfare, and HR Gigers Concepts seemed to show there was a connection between the Xenomorph and Derelict Ship, and the Space Jockey.

This connection is a bit Open, either the Space Jockey Created/Engineered their Technology/Bio-Weapons and these had a similar Aesthetic, they Re-Engineered/Stole said Technology/Bio-Weapons from some other Species... or/and they had some Covenant/Symbiotic Relationship between the Xenomorph and its a Question of WHO is the Higher in this Relationship. 

I think LETO that we should have expanded upon something to cover this aspect, and introduce something more GIGER and Lovecraftian.  I am not sure that means making the Xenomorphs at the Top of this Hierarchy because they had been relegated to just a Bio-Weapon and Invasive Species from the Franchise.   But it appeared Ridley Scott had intended something more Special for the Xenomorph and Space Jockey if he had been able to had made the ALIEN sequel... which would have made the Xenomorph a somewhat Civilized Species... well a Inteligent one, rather than some Parasitic Organism, intent on only Procreating.  So i feel some of the Starbeast ideas would have been explored HAD we seen Ridley Scott make the ALIEN sequel...  But ALAS he was busy and Cameron came in and gave us the Queen and Hive which i think was quite fitting.

So certainly introducing some Organism/Race that has a similar Xenomorph Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic but is a Intelligent Space Fairing Ancient Race/Culture would be the way to expand the Franchise...

Regarding the Xenomorph Origins Debate... it was intended to show they was a related Experiment to the Deacon on LV-223, its Origins connected to those Experiments Thousands of Years ago...

The Plot had been U-Turned with Alien Covenant, so now its David who has Re-Engineered the Deacon/Black Goo into the Xenomorph... which i think is ONE aspect that MOST fans can agree was a MISTAKE..

Fan Pressure and Disappointment can change the Direction and UNTIL we see Davids Xenomorph A-Z from Alien Covenant until we see HOW/WHEN those Eggs get on the Derelict then things could change once again.

"As for Big Dave he does seem not to be able to accept Shaw for anything other than a Xeno birthing machine"

Again i know you are another Passionate Fan, especially regarding Dr Shaw, and i think AC was not really a good way to go, i had said before that they could have EVOLVED her Character and she should have been the ANCHOR point to provide us the Answers to those Questions.

I think the Franchise should have NO Happy Endings, certainly as far as Prequels... and there could have been a number of ways to explore Dr Shaw and what role she could have been given and i think Alien Covenant was a unjust way really, but by having to go a Direct Prequel route that had to make some Sacrifices,  the Engineers and Dr Shaw could not be catered for, because other elements would have to had been taken out or cut down, unless we wanted a 3 hour Movie.

I dont think, and its just my opinion, that the Revelations that Dr Shaw would have got, would have been to be Greeted by a Benevolent Race who would kindly give her the Answers she was after, i think maybe the Truth to WHY we was created would have been fitting if it was a Dark and Sinister Agenda... as opposed to the Kind One her Faith may dictate...   There are BIGGER themes at play and she is just a Pawn in getting over some of these themes, and David likely similar.

Peter Weyland likely never created David purely because he longed for a Son that he never had to Love and Cherish... and i was drawn to our Engineers never Created us for the same reasons that the Bible had taught Dr Shaw.

We have to ask what is the likely-hood of Dr Shaw getting her answers and surviving from a Race who wanted us Destroyed and who would see us as just as insignificant as Holloway saw David........ UNLESS they reveal those beings she meet has some interest in Mankind or are Unaware of Mankind?

If there are a Benevolent Faction, we had to ask WHERE did these guys who, and WHY those on LV-223 just seemed to be VERY Angry and Hateful, but maybe they was not so Hateful, it was just their Task to Kill us, just as say some People doing their jobs being sent in to CULL some Animals on a Farm to Prevent the Spread of a Disease that could effect all Live-Stock.

She could have met more Benevolent Engineers, i think this would have worked if this WORLD they ended up at was the Other Side of the Galaxy and NO-WHERE near Earth or LV-223... But ALAS.

The Bigger thing at play seemed to be the Creation/Rebellion ARC and that it was likely David would want to view himself as the Rightful Heir to the Engineers Technology, and Pursuit to become a Creator himself.

Weyland announced WE are the Gods now in his TED-TALK and he confronted the Engineer to proclaim as a Creator, he too was a GOD and that Gods Never Die.

And i think that David who is potentially Immortal and Superior would see that he has more a God about him than the Engineers and Weyland and all that made them would be Gods was that they are CREATORS and so i feel this would have been the Arc/Plot for David regardless.

The Engineers held a High Regard for the Mural, and so its a Question of what kind of Creation would David want to have Created.... maybe he would have been interested in the Black Goo and wanted to discover what this stuff really could do, because he Did-Not (or so we can assume) see what became of the Trilobite.

If he wanted to see what became of this or Replicate it, then the Starting Point would be a FEMALE Reproductive System.  It depend on his Agenda and Outlook for Dr Shaw..

He maybe could have attempted to allow her to Create a Traditional Fetus as opposed to the abomination she aborted in Prometheus.  Giving Dr Shaw a Child, which would give her something to LIVE for...   or he could have wanted to Create/Re-Create the Deacon...

so i do think Dr Shaw being used a Birthing Machine would have fitted, but is this the intention?  Only RS would know, unless the Paglen/Green Drafts come to Light.

Dr Shaw could have been left Alive... she could have been connected to something/incapacitated some way and SAVED by Oram, who then is Sacrificed and Infected by a Face Hugger after this event.... and thus allowed Dr Shaw to escape with Daniels and Co!

Quite how does the Movie end with Dr Shaw and Daniels Alive though!  One of them would have likely had to be Killed off/Sacrificed?

Or does David peer over both of them in Cryo-Sleep but who would he choose to be his Queen (Woman of Interest) and would Dr Shaw be far more cautious and maybe not trusting of Walter/David.

"Stop it NOW! You are totally obsessed with your "fanboys, queens and Ripley"

Sorry LETO if it came across like this... the Fanboy comment can be seen a Derogatory to the Fanbase... This is not what i mean.

I APPLAUD your Passion for the Franchise, and we all are Entitled to out own Opinions, so if you would Indulge me, i will explain what i mean when i refer to what some may thing is a HATE towards, Queens and Ripley.

First of all.... i like Aliens, it is a Good Action Flick, it is a worthy Sequel to ALIEN  and i have in the past Defended the Queen and Bug Aliens as some refer them as, because i felt it made some sense, and i felt the Xenomorphs were FAR from Brainless Bugs... they would Prioritize the Queen and Hive Survival above all else.

I feel the Queen is interesting part of the Franchise... HOWEVER... in context to the Prequels and WHERE we had RS try and introduce something NEW, i felt the Queen should not be a Major Focus, or Xenomorphs... i actually think keeping the Origins a bit of a Mystery is what should have been done, and that a Prometheus Franchise should have been allowed to go off and explore something NEW.

But there are Fans who was not HAPPY that we never got any Xenomorph Answers in Prometheus, and some also wanted more Xenomorph like Monsters... some Fans (i will refrain from using Fanboys from now on, so as to NOT offend.)  but some Fans are Very Passionate with a FEW things in Particular regarding the Franchise, and Particularly the Queen/More Action Orientated Movies... which i have seen some being a Fan of the AVP movies too which (well the FIRST ONE) was again a decent Stand Alone Action/Shooter kind of Flick.

I just felt that FOX had assumed that a Majority of Fans would be interested in seeing Xenomorphs playing a KEY Role.  And Blomkamps Alien 5 ideas are certainly something that has excited a lot of Fans...  I just FELT these and some Fans Reactions, really Forced the Direction that Prometheus had set up, and the possibilities that movie OPENED... to have been kind of brushed under the Carpet a bit, in order to please some Fans by making the Prequels about the XENOMORPH.... well thats how the SET-UP appeared.

I just felt Prometheus opened up a NEW World to explore and expand the Franchise, the Xenomorph was not Necessary in this expanded Universe, not as far as the other elements that could have been expanded...  because it appeared the Xenomorph was just a Engineered Bio-Weapon that was used to take care of Threats from Species the Engineers would have worries about and to WIPE a World Clean.  So in context to a Prequel i feel that FOX had caved in to what they feel the Fans would want, and this would be Xenomorph Origins and seeing the Beast back on the Big Screen.   The Consequence of this had appeared to Sacrifice what Prometheus could have expanded upon, and this would have been to open up a whole Universe of Possibilities,  as the Xenomorph was maybe just ONE string to the Engineers Bow so to speak.

The Xenomorph had been done over and over, and it became a bit Diluted with every Movie, after the First Three, and so the Execution of ALIEN: Resurrection, had made the Xenomorph appear to be less of a THREAT...  It become Over Saturated with regards to the AVP Movies, and Countless Comics and Games, and i felt that the Prequels could have more to show than just HOW the Xenomorph came to be and HOW it got onto the Derelict, because once you go this route, then how many more Sequels that have Snarling and Chest Bursting  before we could see the Xenomorph become a bit downplayed like Jason Voorhees of the Friday the 13th's and Freddy Kruger in Nightmare on Elm Street Franchises after they just repeated the same thing over and over and basically the Xenomorph and Queen could become just like them the more they OVERDO them.

Prometheus offered something NEW and to show there is more to the Engineers than just Creating the Bio-Weapon that we saw in ALIEN, and ONCE you go a Direct Route then all your doing is connecting the Dots, which is a case of WHAT NEXT?

I think in Hindsight, Prometheus needed to have more clues to the Eggs, it needed to have at least ONE Xenomorph related Monster going on the attack, even if these were like the Neomorphs... the First Movie NEEDED to be less ambiguous and have a bit of Xenomorph-like Action... so that then it would have BRIDGED the Gap between a ALIEN movie and a ENGINEERS movie allowing the Sequel to STEER AWAY and be something different.

Some fans just tried to connect Prometheus too much to a ALIEN movie, it was intended to NOT be ALIEN movie, but to loosely connect, and in Hindsight it needed to be a bit more ALIENY, so that a Sequel could then go off and be something different.

NOW we are heading to ALIEN with some kind of more Literal Connect the Dots Prequels, which may have Sacrificed the Potential to Expand on what Prometheus could have opened the door too, in order to give us a LITERAL Prequel Route.

I dont dislike ALIEN or ALIENS or the Queen or Xenomorph, i am just a little disappointed that the route of the Prequels has been changed to cater/please Fans who wanted the Answers, and to see Xenomorphs and Queens back on the Screen.

Which has likely reduced the Potential of  the Prequels as far as the Themes and Many Ideas that a Prometheus Expanded SPIN-OFF could have explored!

I would have IDEALLY had liked to see something different as far as a Prometheus 2, and then let them make another ALIEN movie...  that could have used some of Blomkamps Alien 5 ideas... but FIRST allow a Prometheus 2 that does-not revolve around Spoon Fed Origins of the Xenomorph and showing the Beast...

I think i may come a bit Harsh towards some Fans, its nothing Personnel to them, its not a Hate towards Aliens its just a Frustration that the Prequels could have opened up much more, and while its ok for Aliens Fans to Lament over not having a ALIEN movie since 1997, i think expectations that a Prequel had to be more about the Xenomorph and Disappointment it was not.. had maybe lead to the path of Alien Covenant which seems to Place the Engineers in a Lesser Role when the Space Jockey/Engineers should have been what had to be explored, if the route was that the Xenomorph was merely a Engineered Killing Machine.

I dont object to another ALIEN movie, if it done right, and provided it tries to do something a bit different, because i feel a ALIEN 5, ALIEN 6 and ALIEN 7 which are as similar to each other as a Aliens is to Resurrection could potentially OVER-SHOW our Xenomorph and reduce it to a Space Jason/Freddy.

I am more concerned with HOW it appears that the ALIEN Franchise is locked into being connected to Ripley!  I dont dislike the Character, i just dont think we have to have Ripley Connections in every Movie!   Its the same as Star Wars, some Fans are Pissed Off that they KILLED off Luke, and Han etc and are wishfully hoping that LUKE would be Resurrected for the Final Movie EP9, and you can bet if we got a SW EP 10-12 then SOME Fans would expect Sky-Walker Connections...

I will close by saying that NOW they have gone the ALIEN: Prefix Route then its going to have Fans Expect a more ALIEN movie and that Dangling the Carrot that Alien Covenant was, to then have a Sequel that does-not feature the Xenomorph would be a Distraction from the Franchise.

Ridley Scotts ideas are interesting, HOWEVER... once they went a ALIEN Prequel with the Prefix... then while these ideas fit more with Prometheus and its potential Sequel which was to NOT be a ALIEN movie as far as connecting to Alien and Xenomorphs...

We need to remember that NOW we are on a ALIEN Prequel route and so those ideas about a Colony of Engineered Humanoids over-ruled by David would be a Distraction, because the Prequels are NOW and should NOW be just as much about the Xenomorph, now they started with that Process.

-

@HYPERNOVA

Indeed when i saw Prometheus for me David came across a little of a Pinocchio kind of Character, and even prior to Prometheus when looking at Trailers and then noticing this SHOT below i thought this looks a bit on the Short Side, as indeed the Engineer does-not look anywhere near 7ft in this SHOT, and so i wondered IF this was either David being granted, or somehow changing himself to be more HUMAN (well Evolve his Body) or it could have been Weyland being Granted a New Body or Evolved his Body for more Life.

But then when a latter Trailer/TV Spot came to AIR which showed a Blonde Head on the Floor of the Juggernaught (it was either David or Vickers) i suspected that this was Davids Head and so that Shorter Looking Being over Dr Shaw could NOT have been David.

So that reveal cast doubt on any Pinocchio like Theory i had been draw to back then (prior to release), i had however still considered such a PLOT-TWIST as for potentially what could happen in Prometheus 2 as i was drawn very much to a  Pinocchio like Arc for David at some point, which could lead to a Great Hubris.

The Walter Viral that appeared to be somewhat Part Organic, and looking at David only having ONE hand, does still draw me to a Plot where David will Upload himself into a Walter Body and thus becomes a Synthetic Construct which then leaves him open to becoming infected with either a Face Hugger like Organism or the Black Goo.

I still think this would have been the ULTIMATE Goal to show how the Xenomorph gains its more Mechanical Aesthetic in ALIEN,  It is kind of the route i was thinking for my Alien Covenant Sequel Idea, only that a Incoming Female Synthetic Construct becomes the route to the Bio-Mechanical Beast from ALIEN.  a Female who David becomes Fond of... and the TWO ideas i had were she Betrays David and so he infects her... or the Engineers Infect her and David seeks Revenge.

Back to the OT...

I think only time will tell if RS has been working on a secret Project, but i have my doubts... especially if its a MOVIE due to the Budget that would cost, and in light of how disappointing Alien Covenant was both Financially and Critically so it would be  a RISK, especially if the Plan is 2-3 more Movies to ALIEN, because the Next would would leave the Prequels Dead in the Water, if it Disappoints/Fails.

But who knows... i think IF there is one being worked on, or if it was being considered, and some production had begun or was planned, then i think we would HEAR about it within the next 12-13 Months.

If such a RS Project exists, or any Alien Project then i feel ALIEN DAY this year the 40th Anniversary would be the IDEAL date to make a announcement.

From what I understand Leto you are theorizing that...

In 2094 David and Shaw, and in 2104 the crew of the USCSS Covenant was both struck by the same neutrino wave, which sent them back in time to before the Engineers became bio-mechanical. Following which David wiped out the Engineers and after the events of Alien: Covenant he used the specimens he re-created on "planet 4" when the Covenant arrived at Origae 6 to re-create the Xenomorph and to transform a Juggernaut into a bio-Juggernaut capable of carrying the Xenomorph eggs before piloting the bio-Juggernaut and, after falling victim or sacrificing himself to his cargo, landed on LV-426 and sent out a beacon warning any and all away, and where thousands/millions of years later David (AKA the Space Jockey), the bio- Juggernaut (AKA the derelict), and his cargo were discovered by the USCSS Nostromo.

Aside from David becoming the Space Jockey (an idea I find too convenient, convoluted and somewhat arrogant). I actually quite like this theory aside from one small detail or more aptly a nitpick...

All of the above is what is known as a predestination paradox, a paradox that is the epitome of, a perfect example of a causality loop (see the link in my signature) - which is only possible using causal time travel. Alternate or Parallel timeline/reality time travel is theoretically free of paradoxes. For example, if I was to travel back in time to kill my father before I was conceived (a simplified version of the grandfather paradox) using causality time travel I would travel back into my own past and undo my existence, hence the paradox. But if I did the same in using alternate/parallel reality time travel I would travel back into the past of another reality and kill that realities version of my father, thus undoing the possibility of an alternate version of myself in that reality. 

The problem with alternate/parallel time travel is that it requires the existence of a multiverse of infinitely generated and generating parallel realities, which by their very nature seem like an impossibility - what purpose would so many universes serve.

"I won't deny that at some point David was only reproducing the Engineers work, during Prometheus and the early stages of AC"

CASE FILE ADVENT came out after Alien: Covenant ignorantGuy.

I do not fail to see that and your timeline may be off.

My point with Advent was that we can treat it as a "capstone" in the debated concepts because it seemed to be released to answer questions after Alien: Covenant in preparation for further production of some sort (film, tv, etc..).

"Can I add that the text is very poorly written as a scientific treatise (even without considering the techno babble), as if written by someone who never work in science and too lazy to research how to?"

Well, you may have a point there.

INGENIERO... I like the idea that even in a far advanced future & an advanced race, THEY are still trying to reduce their temporal carbon footprint upon the fabric of space/time & that's why they limit the amount of times they "fold" space juxtaposed with time spent in stasis within their hibernaculum.

A GREAT thought experiment/idea INGENIERO!

With the idea of David now potentially being the Space Jockey all along would be a great gotcha'-moment perhaps towards the tail-end of a film as the revelations & plot twists keep coming one-after-another, on the one hand...

On the other, I would still like to hold-out that it is a lost alien being of a race We have yet to see the origins developed more.

It would be cool that somehow the Engineers stumbled upon the last vistages of the Mala'Kak race a very long time ago, long before the Derilict crash-landed & copied it/intergrated it, adapted it, incorperated it, absorbed it into their own as the Romans did for centuries as it advanced out & came into contact with new/unknown peoples of Europe.

@Ingeniero what you seem fail to take into account is that things changed during production. I won't deny that at some point David was only reproducing the Engineers work, during Prometheus and the early stages of AC (when the novelization and these pictures were produced), but this would lessen the so called intelligence and creativity of David. Can I add that the text is very poorly written as a scientific treatise (even without considering the techno babble), as if written by someone who never work in science and too lazy to research how to? 

And to add to the stupidity of it all the text says that one would assume that the Engineers were morally superior. So he did not even bother to check that thing out in 10 years while he was stranded there? No, the Engineers did not stopped bombing stuff with black goo because they become cosmopolitan, we absolutely have no idea why and we will probably never will. 

"It could have been a transformed David, or a true life form that is either: "fossilized" OR... OR "petrified" in it's place."

That would actually be pretty cool HYPERNOVA and it would certainly make the "what the hell?" list.

Lost in Space is a great example of time travel as an unintended consequence of interstellar space travel.

"They find the Earth with primitive humans and David finally knew about time travel. He decides to destroy humans at the Dawn of their civilization.

David very proud his latest achievement - the restored Engineers ship. Bio-Juggernaut. David himself has many biomods and become a biomechanical life form - inspired by the last Engineer from LV-223."

That sounds great to me Leto and I'm not against the time-travel in the Alien universe...it's certainly in the comics, below.

Space Jockey

The below video incorporates "far-out" items from the comics, film, promotion including time travel in an attempt to tease out who the Space Jockey could be.

The above room, to me, is a fascinating part of the story because we have no idea how old, how large, it seems to be underground and it is in the novel, etc....all of which could have been build in the past by current characters and events with time travel added.

JPL mentioned it too here and cited the neutrino burst as a potential consequence of time travel.

I'm with BigDave on this being an infrequent, or "one-off" event though because it may not mesh well if it is a frequent occurrence and a main part of the story (such as Terminator) while all the other Alien films have no reference to it. 

If the Engineer tech can fold space then it's not too much of a stretch that they could fold time as well. 

My issue with this is: 

Why sleep such long periods of time if you can just time travel and not use the resources to maintain engineers thousands of years?

To reconcile this...the energy used to fold time and space may just be too large and the Engineers may save resources by sleeping.

"I stick with RS that David created them from scratch as it fits thematically better within the whole context."

The eggs are cited in the previous works of the Engineers in the Art of Prometheus/Prometheus mural, each below ignorantGuy.

When I listen to the Advent message, it alludes to the Engineers using the black goo pathogen technology historically but setting it aside for timidity.

The Point being that the secrets behind the pathogen usage, creation of specialty organisms such as the Ovomorph and Facehugger, and a factory that produces them both (the QUEEN) are all old news to the Engineers. They set that stuff aside and became cosmopolitan.

So, in my opinion, the artwork seen in the art of the film and the mural fit with an older custom used by the Engineers.

"So, to me, the black goo pathogen is where fragmented technology evolved into synthesized single product."

The above statement is from a play on the language used in David's notes, below..."glorious synthesis", right-side paragraph ignorantGuy.

"How does this even make sense? They stopped using the black goop for at least 2000 years but they seem to be able to do space travel without." 

David's notes written in the King's English were a major contributor to this part of the story making sense to me ignorantGuy.

"No. Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett. And more - Alien it's a project of many people: Giger, Ridley, Hill, Giler and more.

"When you speak: Ridley; you annul other people. Scott is not a master of this universe - Alien is not his idea. He is just a director. Director is just a one role from the set."

I am ashamed of myself Leto because you are right but we both left out the Gaffer.

First, compliments on the colon/semicolon bookends on Ridley. I'm sure this signifies a drive-home point but I don't get it. 

"It seems to me that you take this from the prequel novel"

Not so much ignorantGuy. The 2073 buying spree was documented on the weylandindustries.com viral site for the Prometheus' backstory.

Prometheus is a Ridley Scott thing.

The video below was built with source material from Prometheus viral site that is no longer live. 

@Inginiero "So, to me, the black goo pathogen is where fragmented technology evolved into synthesized single product." How does this even make sense? They stopped using the black goop for at least 2000 years but they seem to be able to do space travel without.

"For example, Weyland Industries bought up most of Earth's technology before 2073. Military companies, biotech, nanotech, Perrier Water, and any other conceivable valuable technology was acquired and absorbed into corporate." It seems to me that you take this from the prequel novel (Which is not even a RS thing), but if they are such a big player why is there a need to merge with Yutani? And even more interestingly who can be there another big player in robotics such as Hyperdyne Systems (Ash was an 120-A/2 model according to Aliens).

"David appears to resurrect the Ovomorph in Alien: Covenant and this is detailed in his notes, below." The notes can be explained as random results of David's experiments and to me they don't imply that there was any intent of redoing something already existing. I stick with RS that David created them from scratch as it fits thematically better within the whole context.

@ Leto why do you try to convince hardcore David fans that the direction RS is taking is not that appealing to you? I can assure you can't win. I am someone who pretty much likes only Alien 4 and Prometheus the most of the franchise because they stray away the most from the formula. AC is bad because they reverted to the formula but at the same time making the monster a pet to a genocidal android... 

Man, you are doing a great and good job. Really perfect content.

Ingeniero

Some people may be toxic with "Xenomorphs, Queens and Ripley", but how about "Weyland-Yutani, Androids and AI"? Do you really think that this more interesting than xenomorhps?

Ridley Scott's Alien is where the story originated.

No. Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett. And more - Alien it's a project of many people: Giger, Ridley, Hill, Giler and more.

When you speak: Ridley; you annul other people. Scott is not a master of this universe - Alien is not his idea. He is just a director. Director is just a one role from the set.

Great framing BigDave.

Overall, the topic tees up a great discussion of Engineer technology, specifically the black goo pathogen (genetic/nanotech engineering) if you wish to isolate a common denominator for the Engineer technology.

This common denominator, the pathogen, is a refined cross-section of the Engineer culture according to David's notes. So, to me, the black goo pathogen is where fragmented technology evolved into synthesized single product.

For example, Weyland Industries bought up most of Earth's technology before 2073. Military companies, biotech, nanotech, Perrier Water, and any other conceivable valuable technology was acquired and absorbed into corporate.

This corporate Darwinism may match a similar path taken by the Engineers toward development of the black goo pathogen or those that the Engineers acquired it from.

"But none the less, when Genetic Engineering Evolves to the point of being able to Enhance our Genomes, you have to wonder IF some Governments/Factions would be tempted or even consider the Benefits of doing such a thing... Especially for Military Purposes, because Creating the Perfect Super Solider would hold some Great Benefits."

I have a very low confidence that morality will provide a boundary for Genetic Engineering and the fact that humans have nearly weaponized every technology ever invented reinforces this. 

Leto, Ridley Scott's Alien is where the story originated.

I get it, he can piss you off with curveballs coming out of a dark room after decades of Cameron, Queens, Blomkamp's Dozen-Page Powerpoint, etc...but I believe he was needed to apply the wheels back to the bottom corners of the wagon. 

"David can create anything life forms (how - main question, we still have no answer - how he create the eggs, maybe he don't)"

David appears to resurrect the Ovomorph in Alien: Covenant and this is detailed in his notes, below.

"Is Ridley Scott working on something we will find out on Alien Day?"

Please someone scream "yes".

The releases before the big day daliens sure seem to point toward that. Great news! Thank you.

"Because i feel if Disney will pursue another Movie or TV Showwithin the ALIEN Universe i am sure we should have information/confirmation within the next 12-13 Months, if they indeed have such plans."

I'll settle for another unclear statement about an Alien: Covenant sequel from Ridley Scott even if he yells it next to "get the hell out of here" from behind his garden wall BigDave.

If we have to wait any longer for an update on an Alien: Covenant sequel then society may just fall apart. It's that simple.

Is it possible that Ridley Scott is working on a new Alien installment in secret?

He will not start shooting for Merlin before this fall.

Since he finished All the money in the world, Ridley Scott only shot 2 ads, for Turkish Airlines and Hennessy. He was still involved in various other projects as a producer, but did he give the impression that he might be engaged in a new Alien film?

Would Fox greenlight another sequel before the Disney deal was complete? 

Did Ridley Scott agree with Disney for the Covenant sequel already and then he'd carry on with Merlin?

We get news of an abundance of Alien staff this year, like a new game, digital miniseries, the Tongal/Fox shorts, comics, all before the Alien Day. Why? Why not keep something for the big day?