Comments (Page 405)

Indeed Dark Nebula, there could have been many places they could have escaped, we have to logically look at HOW David could experiment on the Engineers though, because he surely got his ASS KICKED in Prometheus, this could be explained as those LV-223 being Genetically Engineered Super Engineers though, but even so the Engineers appear to be Larger than Human on Planet 4 but there heights seem to vary from 6-7ft tall, with maybe some being a bit bigger.

so if the LV-223 Engineers are Genetically Engineered like say the Replicants in Blade Runner, then a actual Planet 4 Engineer could maybe only be as strong as say a 6.5-7ft Physically Fit Human Male, and smaller for Females.  I think the BIG KICKER has to be these beings had NO IDEA of the impending Doom and simply were no prepared for such a Disaster, thus those who found Shelter maybe had no Provisions to last, and over time with a lack of Food and Drink they would be ripe for the Pickings.

Matt Hatton ponders if they could be reanimated but i think this is him not considering the reason for this in Prometheus was with that Device, so David would have had to have found and taken the Neuro Stabilizer with him.  He also proposed the idea of David cloning so it seems...  maybe this is not so far fetched, but then within 10 years we have to ask how does David accelerate Growth?   I think Hatton has pondered a number of things with ambiguity to that it leaves a OPEN BOOK to if these things get explained by RS/FOX

David spent 10 years on the planet 4, I'm pretty sure he had whole engineer city to explore. Maybe there were graveyards/catacombs where engineers buried their deceased. Maybe some engineers died of old age or from some disease the day before his arrival and he got their bodies for his experiments. The engineers in the plaza that were welcoming the juggernaut's arrival were doomed from start. I'm sure not all engineers were at the plaza, maybe some were in their homes. The engineers in front of the citadel on the staircase during the bombardment had more time to get to the safety (if there were any shelters inside the citadel).

I think these are brain-storming concept works, a concept artist will make some ideas that maybe wont be intended to make it into the picture or based from it... they are interesting thats for sure and do kind of show the Genetic Technology that went into the LV-223 Engineers Suits can be used to make other kinds of Genetic Clothing/Apparel so to speak.

It would be logical that David found survivors, this had to be one of the Reasons for how David had more pristine bodies to experiment with and those infant/child Engineers/Humanoids.   When we first got leaked set photos from Davids Work Shop i was wondering where the Basis for his Experiments come from if he Bombarded and Killed those Engineers.

*Surviving Engineers?

*Dr Shaw?

*Genetic Experiments (using Dr Shaws Eggs)

As a means to at least obtain those Humanoid/Engineer Infants.

With the release of the movie and extras, its more clear David had found Survivors and they were indeed Engineer infants...  and so when i was looking at explanations for the bodies David used for his experiments, and when discussing this a long while back (prior to the Movie Release) i was pondering if the Cathedral offered some kind of Safe Haven from the Carnage outside.

Then we cant rule out some other places they decided to run and hide..... but in either case, after such a Apocalyptic Event with no Warning, any survivors who managed to find some Shelter that protected them from the Bombardment would surely not have stored sufficient Provisions to survive the Long Term Fall out.

So many could have died from Starvation etc, but their remains are in a state that can be experimented upon, unlike those Charred Bodies outside, and then if there remained a few survivors.. they would be so weak and emaciated to put up with any fight from David.

I will add that Matt Hatton hinted at changing scripts... so we dont know when he was brought into the Project, but there was a number of drafts and changes on Harper's Draft by Logan and the work they had done was around the Summer of 2015, i wonder when Harper came on board?   As i am not sure Hatton would be brought in during the last time Green worked on the Project (Autumn 2014) but it could show that the Evolution and Re-working done by Harper to the point of the Final Changes made by Logan, then maybe during this process our Engineers and their City may have had more of a Giger Aesthetic than we ended up with.

@Ingeniero

Yeah we get some Financial Inconsistencies, this have to be taken as a oversight, as i dont think those working on the movies tried to estimate the inflation costs by the year Alien/Aliens was set in.  Prometheus was more realistic in terms of that. (costs of Technology/Missions).

Nice reference points to the Weyland Viral Site again, and indeed if Weyland Board did not seem or we have to ask why they was not interested in what went to WRONG and WHY no replies from Prometheus, then if 50% of the Mission was split between other investment such as a 50/50 split on the remaining cost (25% Each of the Total) then you have to wonder why the other investors would not want ANSWERS  i.e Government and Private Parties and indeed the Private Parties could be revealed to be created Parties that maybe are Secretly owned by YUTANI?

I have to say while a Alien movie is more better to stay in Space....  i think this applies to the Franchise of past, i feel with the Prequels and the very back ground to the Engineers i think the Expanded Alien Franchise could well take part on Planets rather than Baron Moons etc.

The Engineers back ground appears to suggest they have visited much more than Earth, LV-223 and Planet 4, i think a Underwater Based Movie would be interesting, and could be explored in context of either this was ONE a World that had land and had interaction with Engineers, or it was always a Water World where the Engineers ship crashed at some point. 

We really need to Understand and Discover and ask WHY do the Engineers Create/Seed Worlds, Ridley Scott calls them Genetic Space Gardeners and so we have to ask is their ONLY purpose to Create Humanoids? Are other Creatures just a Side Effect/Creation from the Sacrificial Seeding and only selected Organism are chosen to be Evolved, or are they also Engineered or needed for Food Sources for the kinds of Organism their Agenda of Creation is involved with.

If the Engineers go around Creating Life in General and so not to create Intelligent Species, then for them discovering or manipulating a Ocean World could be something they would be looking to do, so they could come across a Water World  and maybe want to Seed/Evolve Aquatic Life?  Maybe they would see this World as Potential and look to Manipulate it to Reduce the Water and Allow for Land Masses to Form so it would then become a Viable World to Seed Life on.   Either way would be a good enough reasons to find our Engineers visiting this World.

Another option is a OUTPOST If the Engineers Ships can be made to go underwater, then setting up a Underwater Outpost like LV-223 certainly would be a very good route to take as far as Safety Precautions and to keep this place hidden and less accessible than building a Outpost on open Land.

So again either of these, or a Ancient Calamity/War or Punishment could also put any Ancient Engineer Settlement/Outpost under water too.

Oh Dear lol

Oh well he was not to bad in Alien Covenant so i guess i will give him a break and Mr Hogan was not exactly going to win any Oscars lol   I also think has movies have evolved from the 80's to the Now's or what ever its called...  Post 2010..  the Comedy Aspects are different and many 80's remakes or flicks that are similar to 80's movies have a different kind of Comedy theme to them.  So i guess while its hard to imagine McBride in a 80's Dundee, maybe he would be fine for the Modern Style of Comedy Version.

Hey everyone...Critters5 just made an excellent point...I'd love to see that Alien film.

That is a great description The_Foxcatcher and a very fitting reference to Shiva and the Engineers.

I remember that auximenes. Link had to play the flute to open the doors. That is a wonderful reference. 

A producer described the Engineer holograms as tangible, spongy and that is why it affected David's hair when the hologram passed over him. Somehow the Engineer tech projects a physical form that the user interacts with, see green sphere below.

In Alien: Covenant, there was mildew/moss on the green sphere when Captain Oram ran his hand over it meaning this physical projection in the hologram (where moss grew) was in something like a standby mode but still projecting a physical form for moss to grow on. That would explain the repeating Dr. Shaw message because the panel was always on but not lit up because a hand had not run over it in a long time.

I like the Engineer tech (flute, spongy floating icons) because it was so foreign to what we build and in my opinion credible alien tech. The historical elements mentioned above add credibility to the tech user interaction. Our tech may evolve in radical leaps but there may be components of it (like a button or flute) that may stay in the user experience forever.

Blade Runner 2049 was a masterpiece. Could you imagine if that director directed an Alien film!? 

Yes, most certainly V I N E T I C U M.

It is nice to share and especially when the emotions are positive. We can have a good time sharing negative emotions regarding the films in a positive discussion between ourselves. That is why we're here...to share and debate a topic/universe outside of our own. Thank you again for commenting.

That looks pretty funny. He should be good in that role.

IRaptus, Synth trying to help and the crew doesn't know who/what to trust...would work!

I'd have a scene where the captain(speaking in Russian)tells the crew how he will flay them and remove their hands, eyes and he use them to set a platter...a feast for the gods. (....He's eating grapes and cutting his steak while he tells them this....)

The crew will be puzzled(unable to understand Russian)...the audience will read the subtitles. they will ask the synth for translation and he/she/it will tell them: the captain is just 'wishing them well and advising them to work as a team'.  Is the synth protecting the crew or complicit?   ?

The original 8-bit NES Zelda game had a flute which teleported you around the map and every Zelda game since then has utilized some kind of instrument as a major game mechanic.

A great movie , beautiful images.
It's nice to share these emotions

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

MonsterZero nice concept! Love the twist with the crew, brilliant. Its so.....Alien.

Perhaps another twist for your story. The Synthetic in this actually is actually noble and genuine in trying to save the crew and thwart W-Y and the Captain.

But the crew mistrust it sensing a trap and eventually mutiny and go against what the Synth recommends them to do. Ultimately they end up destroying what would have been a genuine escape option and doom themselves.

Solider was a Paul W.S Anderson film!? huh. There you go. * Respect Level Up *

Nice cross-over links! Beautiful images! My Blu-Ray of BR2049 is on its way 8D. Cant wait

Thank you so much Ati. That was really considerate of you to do.

Yeah, the respirator above is bodacious too. So, an additional thank you for that image.

I had to enhance the two images below. Epic.

Epic scene.

I hope you don't have to wait until May to watch it BigDave.

I couldn't find an interested party to go with me either and did not see it until my Blue-Ray, 4K version came in the mail this month. I do not have a 4K TV but the Blue-Ray was amazing. I had ordered the art book a while back and could not wait to see the film. 

I expect the Blue-Ray sales of this film to support making a sequel and it is nice to hear Ridley Scott speak of one. Once you get the film, enjoy BigDave. It is a great film.

Ingeniero - Not a Blade Runner, but the links are interesting.

MonsterZero - Ok. :)

Ingeniero - Glad you like it.

A female Engineer and a male Engineer. Are they different?

Or something is put on the male Engineer's head...

Ati, Oh it would start in space and end in space.

Weyland Yutani would deliver the submarine from space and retrieve the sub with all the goodies on board. It's an autonomous rescue. The Antar will be sent to it's next planetary assignment.

One source claims: '...in the Zeta II Reticuli system...'

The other source claims: '...just outside the Zeta II Reticula system...'

Awesome. :/ 8D

More than pleasure, Ingeniero. Not the best Alien short on Youtube, but it's ok.

First stay in space, please!

Things like 'scenes on Earth' or 'settings of Earth-like environment' do not work well in an Alien movie.

The reason why the movies Alien and Aliens are so popular is the fact that the scenes in them do not resemble Earth.

I hope the direct Alien prequel won't take place on planets similar to Earth.

Lol, Ingeniero, I don't know. Seriously. A strange comment.

I don't remember that comment, and I don't know why I put that image in it.

Did I make that comment? :D A mystery. I should delete it I think.

I watched Soldier last night, better than I remember and with a great cast. Thanks again Ati. The rovers are so cool.

I love the shape of the puzzle the children soldiers are constructing when testing for dexterity...young Todd delivers.

Love it Ati.

It most certainly is ali81 and yes Burke was. 

Thank you Ati.

You are most welcome MonsterZero. This topic certainly deserved an upvote.

Queen of venus is a title to deepen in my opinion the next identity of Daniels , A Queen evolved by David while everyone is sleeping in cryostasis , a project in dance since the days of Shaw alive, will the right opportunity for him?
Queen of venus is also a retro flm in which this masked queen was prey to men deceiving and killing them in revenge.
Venus Known probably already in prehistory, Venus was then observed by all ancient cultures, such as the Babylonians who called it Ištar, in honor of the goddess of love, eroticism and war. Egyptians, Greeks, Mayans and Romans distinguished the morning and evening apparitions in two distinct bodies, calling it morning star or evening star, and for this called Lucifer when it appeared before dawn, and Vespero when it appeared to the west to the fall of the Sun. Because of its splendor, in many cultures, including the Mayan one, Venus represented two twin deities, in which Quetzalcoatl in the Morning Star and Xolotl in the Evening Star respectively were identified.
A hybrid Daniels who finished her reproductive task could come out of her hiding place once colonized with Protomorphs. the Survivors can admire the queen at the top of the conquest of civilization.
The 2 facehuggers of David I imagine that it are his Wolves, maybe you can understand their place in history the next chapter.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Cheers, some i have seen before but some i never came across like the ones you linked ;)

There certainly is a lot of Mysteries that we cant come up with a definite answer for, i have always interpreted (prior to Alien Covenant) that LV-223 was just a Way-Station, if these Engineers played some role in our Creation/Evolution and Visited Ancient man from time to time, leaving those Star Maps as far back as 35'000 years ago..  I had a massive Problem with this place being a Bio-Weapons Facility from the Get Go!

Why create a Outpost for Bio-Weapons, and give clues to where it is to Mankind going back as far as 35'000 years, and come to visit us and no doubt teach us knowledge, until 2000 years ago they decide to Destroy us?  Why would they use this place a Bio-Weapon Facility and manage to control/contain these Bio-Weapons for over 33'000 years until the Outbreak and why only around the Time they decide to use the Bio-Weapon on us do they suffer a Outbreak?  Maybe Sabotage?

Nope to me, if these are Genetic Gardeners then surely they would want to Experiment/Evolve Lifeforms and it would make more sense to carry this out on a different location,  you would not want to experiment/hybridize Crop, Plants and Fruit in any Garden/Plots of Land in case of the having a effect on what you already have planted right?

So it makes sense that LV-223 was a Green-house/Nursery where they could experiment on their Creations and when pleased, they can then Plant them to Earth and other Worlds...  I think this explains why the Outpost was Terra-formed to support Human Life, as those LV-223 Engineers could survive out on the surface of LV-223 at least for some time.

This is my theory on LV-223, so these beings are the Watchers so to speak.  This is there Way-Station to keep watch over us and evolve us and other life on.

After Alien Covenant by stance has not really changed on LV-223

PLANET 4

Why would the Engineers welcome the Juggernaught?  A returning War Hero Welcome? Maybe, so to welcome their kind back from War, but then do they know this ship has come from LV-223, is it not odd that those ships had not returned for Thousands of Years?  But then RS said the Engineers Return time to time and will once again, so they also go elsewhere in the Galaxy, so on other War Missions?

This is at odds with the Process to Create Mankind...

Looking at the City, i see the Hanger and around it are Statues very much like the Buddha Offering Statues, they are holding a Bowl/Cup that is maybe like the Sacrificial Cup, so do these Statues represent the Sacrificial Scene?  Then we see those Pillars with Statues of Various Engineers?  I actually think that Planet 4 is where the Engineers get their Sacrifices from, and that being Chosen is a Great Honor.   Now and again these Juggernaughts return to take Chosen Sacrifices which is a great Moment in their Culture, the Chosen are done so because they are  Symbol of Perfect Specimens, and from their Sacrifice they will CREATE Life, and as Reward they also get Statues Erected in their Honor.

If we look at it like this, then this would explain how they Welcomed the Juggernaught, with no Fear for the Cargo at all, until it was unleashed...

WHY? Well if we look at the Sacrificial Scene... a Ancient Ship drops off a Engineer who consumes the Sacrificial Goo and his broken down Material is the basis/catalyst that creates basic life or Evolves Basic Life.  Its not exactly the most Perfect Method.... a Evolution of this could be to Sacrifice the Engineers on the Ships or LV-223 or even some other Safe Place.  If a Engineer drinks the Sacrificial Goo but he is standing inside of a container, the broken down material would be contained... if this is siphoned off into Ampoules and these then placed in those URNS would not Dropping Canisters of Engineer DNA Urns not be more efficient than the Sacrificial Scene?

So i propose those Juggernaughts were intended as a Evolution to the Seeding Ship, hence no Weapons or Defense Mechanisms and hence no Fear from those Engineers.

But as we can see the Sacrificial Goo can break down the DNA of a Organism so its DNA can be spread onto a World to Evolve Life it comes into contact with, at some point the LV-223 Engineers at very least (maybe ordered from some place else or not?) had came into contact with something that turned one into  gestating a Organism and so they experimented on this over and over until the Deacon, then they chose its DNA to be used to Seed worlds.

Turning a Seeding Ship, into one that would Seed Worlds with Xeno-DNA.... "Sometimes to Create, One must First Destroy"

Thats just my TWO Cents on Planet 4 and LV-223.

When you say "himself" Ati, are you referring to a morph similar to what launches from Millburn's throat or the beauties seen on Planet 4?

David wrote in his notes that the black goo was a "glorious synthesis of the species" (or something close to that) and that reconciles with the parasitic/gaunt look of Ledward just before the back burster.

The organism sure appeared to synthesize everything from Ledward into a smaller organism that pushed out of the body and then it grew rapidly.

Is that the "himself" you're referring to. In that context, Oram produced quite a specimen himself. I assume Captain Oram would morph over time laying on the egg floor similar to the Space Jockey above and Dr. Shaw below.

Starting to sound like Alien Resurrection...

Regarding the Engineers who knows what RS is on about, he can contradict a bit.

*He often referred to the Engineers as Fallen Angels, is this just the LV-223 ones?  Are they Fallen because they are Malevolent/Wicked beings, or because they had Rebelled or got Expelled from the rest of their Race?

*He claimed he did not want to meet GOD in the first movie, regarding the removal of the Elders, so the Engineers in Prometheus are not GOD, but this does not mean the Gods are similar to the Engineers like say Egyptian Pharaohs or that the Tribal Elders are the Gods.

*He said David and Shaw would find Paradise, and those beings and they are Far From Benevolent and are not Gods in the Traditional Sense.

*He latter when Alien Paradise Lost was announced, mentioned that if the Engineers are the Forerunners to Mankind, then what makes Worlds be able to sustain Life in the first place... where is the Big Guy.  Also asking is the Big Bang a Accident?

*At the same time he said you have ONE Guy who is Handsome, gets all the girls and goes to all the parties while another Guy is not so handsome and basically stays at home being boring.

*He has said a few times prior that the Fallen Angels seem to have the most fun in the Paradise Lost Poem.

*With Alien Covenant released, he calls those Planet 4 Engineers the ORIGINAL Engineers.

*The Hall of Heads is referred to the Hierarchy, the Wise Men, the Apostles and Superior Beings (to who, Mankind? The other Engineers in Prometheus, or those on Planet 4?)

*Ridley Scott suggested also that while there are many versions of Man, why cant it be the same with the Engineers, and he also said the Engineers ARE-NOT a Race but a CIVILIZATION.

When i look back at the Source comments regarding Mankind and Engineers, i think they kind of add up to what RS has said months after the Source passed this information on... So its interesting to ponder what this relationship is.

you can find them on the avpgalaxy.net website, in the prometheus section for concept arts :

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=300&page=8

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=300&page=9

Here is also one of the artist that provide them :

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ayx0L

I don't have found yet all the artists pages but will update this thread if I will.

You will find on the avp concept art page some interesting concept, like a real cathedral where the juggernaut is under the pyramid, or various vues for the pyramid entrance. etc. Many are not in the Prometheus art book.

I thought it was going to end similar to Four Rooms from Tarantino with the lighter involved but great for her in getting it lit. This is a great film short, thank you ali81.