Comments (Page 419)

I don't believe alien5 is in any way intended to trash anything. what was said was basically u will always have alien3 and AR but, this is how I would have gone with it from aliens and if u don't like it, u have those other films. a lot of people didn't like the fact that one of the most popular characters in aliens was killed off. I for 1 don't care either way as I like alien3 but its always interesting to see what someone else would have done. if it is done right then people will like the movie for what it is and hey, u have another alien movie to watch so win win right?

Red0Guy: OK, I get it. I do not know that much about Bladerunner other than that it is a lot about AI.

Ali81: I don't know either, maybe a lot of the ideas that he has for another Alien movie are so crappy so it would be better if he stayed away from it and focus on the Bladerrunner thing, that is how I read the headline or how I would put it even though that is probably not what the content of the article says (LOL!) The black goo is interesting more of that.

"he cant complain if he is going to go down this path and alien fans bash him for it."

I agree

must have missed the gaff visit redguy, refresh my memory plz?

ali81

Both of them are replicants (Deckard and Rachael)... made pretty clear by the Gaff visit.

Thoughts_Dreams

Replicants are not robots... they are pretty much engineered humans and the right question is if you want to have a "product line" how would giving birth make sense, as by birth the new replicant is not guaranteed to have the desired traits.

totally agree thoughts, he can make a separate BR spin off but don't use the alien franchise to do it. he wants something different for the alien franchise and I can actually understand his point. but he gave us something different in Prometheus. he gave us the black goo and the engineers yet he shits on the engineers and makes the goo so inconsistent people r scratching theirs heads about it and now the prequels have that BR spin off feel to it. he cant complain if he is going to go down this path and alien fans bash him for it.

personally I don't see how it is any good news for the alien franchise that he wants to do another BR film. I just don't get the point of the thread tbh. don't get the connection as all it means is he has so many ideas for AI but cant fit them all into one franchise so hes gna use them both. alien suffers imo.

Robots giving birth, how is that possible? Some sci-fi ideas are interesting but they got to have an answer that makes sense even though it could be a bit far fetched. Yup he seems more interested in things like Bladerunner, let him play with that but don't turn the Alien franchise into BR because they are two different things.

yes AVPR is without a doubt one of the worst movies iv ever seen. even worse than those scyfy channel flicks considering the vast difference in budget. if they had never made an AVP movie I wouldn't have minded and that's nothing to do with how poor they were. I agree with u thoughts that some thinks should remain comics or animated as the writers can get away with a lot more but as soon as its put on screen, some of the same things that they get away with in the comics they don't get away with when its in a film. the truth is fans wanted something that brought the 2 together but what we got was so bad it has soured our appetite to see it again.  

Some people like those movies and some don’t I have just watched the first one and well it was not very impressive. It is a more interesting idea than what the final result became. There are some things that should stay on paper and not become movies, the AVP’s being prime examples.

I have not watched the second one but I have watched some clips on youtube and I have watched a review of it, and it seems to be total shit. Please save us from a third one (LOL!)

AVPR is like the cecum of the alien franchise, it is there but it doesn’t perform any function what so ever and a lot of times it is removed.

Alien Versus Predator Rectum (LOL!)

the plot of BR2049 was way ott imo. a human and a replicant mustering up the compatible genetic material to produce a sprog of their own?? cmon, some common sense here please. but the movie on its own was good I thought. good performances and decent character building with amazing scenery. but it seems many people can see past the idiotic idea of robots giving birth enough for the film to be nominated for awards. if he wants to do more Blade Runner sequels then he will. I think his interests suit Blade Runner better than it does Alien at this time. I wouldn't shed a tear if he states hes not going to do another Alien film but with his fascination for AI, BR is more down his street for future films and time to let someone else have a bash at the Alien prequel series.

If that means throwing Alien 3 in the trash can then I am totally against it. I can agree on taking AR out of cannon though. Let Newt, Hicks, and Ripley stay dead they have had their time.

Batchpool: If he is going the AI route then that would almost be the same as AC so I would not be interested.

Critters5:

The flute scene was kind of interesting in the way that we saw the different views that David and Walter had but I agree that they could have done so with a much better way and also it was too slow, meh. It could have been better if they showed more about his experiments in the lab or what ever to call that place. A scene like that as opposed to the flute- thing by David would have been a lot better but I think that I understand the point of having that in the movie.

You could easily make a parody of that where a fat David plays the bagpipes (stomping his feet) like Fat bastard in Austin Powers and going on in a rambling about creation like a psycho while going off-topic a bit now and then. That would have been fun. (In a rhythmic voice: I am David I like to create). I can easily imagine a parody of that scene.

It was not forcing the Xeno that was the problem for me, it goes a lot deeper than that.

The last image looks fun it almost looks like it has the head like it is dancing and singing "oh I am too sexy for my shirt..." :D

A Right Said Fred (a band) reference for those that don't know about that.

"… remind me the greatest failure of AC is to take David from the curious ambivalent robot to the moustachioed stereotypical villain. "

Exactly Michelle, that was one of the things that I did not like that much about the movie. Still David was sort of interesting but he was better written in Prometheus. The more ambiguous version in Prometheus was better.

Big Dave:

Maybe that but they should have still stuck closer to the Alien thing, otherwise what is the point of doing a prequel at all? Either make it clear that it is a prequel or make it clear that it is its own thing. They went something like "this is, eh no it is not, bla bla bla". Do you remember when they said first that it is a prequel and then it was something close to it. My reaction was: Just make up your mind already thank you very much. How difficult can that be really? Why be interested in a movie when the creators can not decide what it is? I do not say that Prometheus is total junk (there are parts that I like) but it did not help that they were not direct with what it was.

Yup there should have been more clues, like the Xeno Fifield, that thing looked great by the way, a lot better then the zombie (which was kind of crap).

Cutting down the time for Shaw was no problem but I would have liked to see more of the Engineers. Fox got it all wrong in my opinion in their answer to the criticism towards the movie, they simply didn't get it.

It makes totally sense to have the SJ thing being something that occurred long time ago, it makes it more interesting that way. Each time that I have watched Alien I have imagined it being something that is very old but impossible to put an exact date on. Compare it to something like a children's story about an elf that lived a long time ago in a house in a dark forest (this is just an example that I totally make up). To me at least it gets less interesting if you move the time-line closer to the present, the same with the SJ. An alien movie does not even have to have a Xeno in it for the simple reason that it is a prequel. Your re-write seems interesting. Can you put it up somewhere so we can read it?

Having David re-creating something close to the Xeno could be alright as long as it is clear that his version is not the original. Did the earlier drafts had as much of David in them as AC had or id there something to show that the change came later? I just wonder where in the process they started the decline of it or if the earlier versions had less of him.

Maybe they could have had flashbacks to the LV426 crash by showing partially the travel to that place.

"… would be interesting Curveball and would allow for the event of LV-426 to be directly tied in the Time-Line."

Alright it is just that it sucks. It should be more impressive than that in my opinion, more alien. I would have it that the engineers created it from a previously existing life form sort of like you see sorcerers cook some crazy medicine a la Lord of the Rings or something like that, loosely of course. Maybe have it create in a lab or something. To me Engineer science could be really impressive to show if it is being done right. Hopefully we will see something similar to it in the next movie if we will get one, that could be very interesting.

You see the Engineers going into a cave or something. They walk to a room with a heavy door, you also see like a lab but way more advanced. We see that and then they cut the scene and when we have the next scene we see that they have created something like some eggs. I think that we could see what kind of ingredients that they used but we never see exactly how they did that. At this point there is no Xeno there because it would probably destroy them, but we see the eggs and from the eggs come facehuggers which turn into Xenos. Maybe this was lame but I would not mind if they had a scene like that because then we see that the Engineers created something like it but we never see exactly how it was made. If this would be made in a lame way then many would complain but there could be a way to make it right.

"I think its all down to interpretation, and i may interpret things a bit wrong? I think we need to look at the reasons for Davids Agenda at the End of Prometheus until Alien Covenant."

He disliked mankind but liked Shaw so maybe he thought that he did her a favor when he started to mutate her into what ever. When he used her for the monsters her genes were used so maybe he tried to give her everlasting life… in a way. I don't know, it is very difficult to come up with a convincing answer to this.

Let him do so if that is his what he wants to do. His interest is with the robots so I am not surprised that he wants to do another Blade Runner movie. It would not surprise me if it will flop like the last one did. Frankly speaking I will not watch it, it is on my boycott list if it will ever be shown because he made AC about an effing robot. Movie critics can say what ever they want, it gets no interest from me.

Don’t let Scott write otherwise we will get crap like David made the Alien. Let him direct since he is good at the visual thing but keep him far away from the story.

"RS gave us the engineers and the black goo so make it about them, not some delusional synthetic with daddy issues"

Exactly this, hell they even remind us of the SJ in how they look so there is probably some connection there. The black goo is interesting so they can expand more on that. I am not sure if we can trust David on it since he is a crazy robot (unreliable narrator I think is the term Michelle J used). Move on from the David story, make it more about the Engineers and their connection to the SJ.

if David was a character introduced in BR2049 then fine. that's what the BR movies are about, AI. alien is not regardless of whether these are prequels or not. RS gave us the engineers and the black goo so make it about them, not some delusional synthetic with daddy issues

Oh what the hell, since this thread got dug up I will join the discussion.

First I will update the scores for AC in the sources shown above.

IMDB 6,5/10 (2018-01-09)
Tomatometer 56/100 (2018-01-09)
Metascore 65/100 (2018-01-09)
Fandango 3,5/5 (2018-01-09)

As you can see a lot of the scores have lowered for the movie which I think is a good thing since I did not like it that much. I do not consider myself a hater I am simply thinking about the movie, what I liked and did not like and no it does not get higher than a 2 out of 5 because there were too many disappointments in it. People are allowed to have their opinions but the movie has too high ratings.  To me it is not even near that level.

The blu-ray was mentioned, I have not bothered to buy it. It is not even worth to buy, that is how it is to me since I can only speak for myself and how I see it.

I am getting tired of David, give me better human characters and less robots. Humans can be smart and still get killed. There are ideas that I have and that I think are better than the movie is and also other fan ideas that are a lot better.

"Members on the forum have better ideas imo." DK

I agree, the way that Scott wants to take it is mildly speaking not too good.

Ati: What kind of dark forces are you talking about?

To me currently the dark forces are Scott and Fox that are effing up the franchise with their crappy David  things.

I would not mind if they kill David early in the next movie so we will be left with the aliens and the humans. Killing David could be a compensation for having him getting a lot of focus in two movies and he is not even human. Unfortunately Scott seems to be interested in the robot crap so that probably will not happen.

"Making him in his failure and defeat realize he's not perfect and ALSO ... "mortal after all." "

I like it, hopefully they will make it something like that. That is a good idea Last Autobot, I like how you used that quote from Prometheus.

Please don’t make David the SJ, that would suck donkey balls if they did that. It would not even make sense scale-wise.

Thanks, I like that movie. It has the feeling of the first alien movie and like a computer game. Yes there are still ways that they can make the Xeno scary again, this proves it although it was a little too much like the first one if we are talking about bringing new things but the fear was there and it was better done than in AC.

In case they want to they can make a longer alien movie where we get more character development but I like this one.

LOL! This movie has no fluting, yay! :D

More scenes with a feeling like this for the next movie would be great but that is not to say that they need to copy a lot from Alien or Aliens. I liked that there is a lot of darkness so you don’t exactly see everything that happen and you get more understanding for the fear that the persons are in, that they are chased by a killing monster and that there is also not very much that they can see so they don’t exactly know what direction it comes from or if there are more of them.

The quality of AC prohibits it from even getting a statue carved out of wood. It was so disappointing in general unfortunately.

"… recently blasted by Ridley Scott due to its long duration and slow pacing, scored a total of 8 nominations…"

AC also included slow scenes so he should not complain about that. Some examples are the David and Walter discussion and where Daniels and Oram sit around some sort of fire. Where Rosenthal gets eaten by a monster is not a very fast paced scene either, right? It is a short scene but it is not a lot of action in it. Unfortunately we did not get to know anything about her in the movie so her death did not mean a lot.

"I think both Prometheus and AC would have been better for being longer." - DK

If that adds something important to the story and is not extremely slow then yeah. Prometheus and AC should have been a bit longer while for example the first three Star Wars movies would not have to be so, just examples of movies that had enough in them to be good anyways.

"… It is a sad fact that several Alien fans left the Covenant page because of joylitt’s offensive posts and comments. They have disappeared…"

Ati: Do you have any information to back that up? You blame Joylitt and while I do not agree with him all the times I got to say that you got to have information to back that claim up since you sort of attack Joylitt there. I do not wish to pick a side in your dispute but I am just saying that you can’t attack anyone like that without any ground to stand on so to speak.

“Comments and posts bashing Scott and Covenant made by posters like joylitt has caused the uncertain future of the Alien franchise we are facing now. That is the sad truth. :/”

People have different opinions and if AC disappoints a lot of people then it seems fairly reasonable that there were things that the movie did wrong. Many people might like Fassbender as an actor but that doesn’t take away the fact that many did not care about the movie, and for good reasons (robot story, mostly weak characters, for example). If they (those who were responsible for the characters) would have cared about them and other things than the robots then they would not have the situation that they have now, that is my guess and by the way I can just say what I dislike about it so I do not speak for anyone else. To only claim that there are comments and posts that are causing an uncertain future for the franchise does not make an inch of sense.

Here is a price that AC should have gotten and yes it is a bit of exaggeration but you get my point:

https://www.istockphoto.com/se/foto/branch-of-dead-tree-gm536724851-57649458?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect

The point is that there is a lot of bad things with the movie so the quality is closer to that than to a movie that would be nominated for an Oscar.

there is no reason that the xeno and yautja cant exist in the same universeand be known to WY. the idea of AVP is great. there is so much that could be done and with the right script, it could be a success. the issue is how poor AVP and AVPR were. the were rushed jobs imo. AVP was better but not by much. if it had been in outer space on a distant world maybe it would have been better received but having to take place on earth was poor and lazy judgement. id be all for a re-boot

daliens. I have to agree. I think Disney will give us awesome looking planets and star systems and hopefully something new in terms of alien species but will they give us a proper 'alien' horror film? I don't think they will as I doubt they will release anything about PG13. but that doesn't mean the prequels will suck if they tell the right story.

I think Ridley's blast at the running time of br2049 shows how out of touch he actually is. running time isn't really an issue. people sat for 3 hours for each of the LOTR movies and it never got slammed. why? because there was something going on throughout the movie. BR2049 was awesome. yea it took a bit to get going but id still watch it in the future. AC however is a film ill never watch again. funny how Ridley's blast at how long BR ran for was down to character building yet the film has been very well received and yet, the shorter AC film with NO character building has had more criticism. hhhmmm think its time Ridley steps aside. I mean it took nearly 40 mins (slow pacing) for the beast to appear in alien so what was happening in the film up to that point? building up the characters and it is regarded as one of the all time classic movies. now hes slamming such a process? time to go in my book

It appears i cant Edit my Post...

I was going to add regarding Alien Covenant... is that i feel they cant abandon the Prequels they need Closure and so i think this has to be the route, despite some problems with AC, rather than going for a Ret-Con of Alien 3

I do think Disney will eventually however... produce either.

1) A Alien Movie set within the Universe but not any literal connection to Davids Prequels or Ripleys Alien Franchise.  A movie that may offer a Alternative Time-line or be set within and not contradict Alien Franchise or Prequels.

2) A sequel to Alien Resurrection that may not include Ripley 8

3) A Prequel to Alien that is more direct, that may brush aside but not ignore the events of RS Prequels.

4) A Alien vs Predator Reboot.

5) If the Franchise is not touched for 10 years... then maybe they will REBOOT the Whole Franchise.

I think Disney will be looking at how well The Predator Performs... both Financially and Critically before they may make a decision on what/if they will take on any of FOX's Sci-Fi Franchises within the near future.

The Problem Faced with Blomkamps idea is the every Aging of Miss Weaver, she is not far off 70 years old and so portraying her for anything younger than 55 would be a push, she could play a 60 year old with ease, even if shooting does not start for 2 years.. At present she could play a late 50's Ripley but as time goes on then Blomkamps Plot has to be pushed forwards as far as Time-Line... If we dont get no Alien 5 until say 5 years time then the movie would have to be set 25-30 years after Aliens.. unless CGI is used.

Also Blomkamps idea would mean eradicating Alien 3 and Alien R from Canon, and really what NEW would it add?  A few things but the rest would be to retread the same Trope and Fan-service.

The Problem faced with Ridley Scotts idea... is again AGE, RS is not getting younger and i would think ideally he would need to work on his Alien Prequels in the next 3-5 years.  The more time goes by the less likely RS will be able to take a active role....  The Next Problem is Fassbender the longer a sequel to AC is taking the more he will age.... if we get nothing for 3 years then Fassbender will be 10 years older than when he Shot Prometheus and surely Androids Dont AGE!  So again these Prequels would have to be done in 3-5 years before Fassbenders Age compared to David would start to show, but again CGI could help.

The Problem we have is i am not sure Disney would be working on any of these projects not in the near future....   If The Predator does well, they may proceed with a sequel to that instead.  If it Bombs then they may Question the Validity of the Franchises and where to go next.

But i think they may consider a AVP Reboot.... i do feel a  AVP Reboot is more likely than any Alien Franchise Sequel or Prequel at the moment.

BigDave

People change, money runs out.

Looking at RS comments post Alien Covenant and ignoring the rest...

Then the Engineers Story is a very odd one..

Basically it paints the following picture...

*We have these Engineer beings who live for 150 years and have females and who Shun Technology apart from a few places (Lighting/Heating) and Military Purposes. 

*At some point these Engineers have Engineered a more Advanced Super Solider variant of their Species the LV-223 Engineers.

*At some point a Engineer Sacrifices himself to kick start Creation on Earth, we now have to ask WHY? If those Engineers had Females?  (or was this done by the Engineered Sterile Super Solider Engineers?)

*The Engineers have other ships that leave Planet 4 (Home-world) to go about Genetic Gardening in Space again WHY?

*At some point after interacting with Mankind for Thousands of Years, they (or those on LV-223) begin to develop a Bio-Weapon to Eradicate Mankind.

There is a lot more Flesh to the Story than this... a lot more that Prometheus had laid the ground-work for but who knows what we will see from the Engineers now...  If Planet 4 is the Home-world and that was the only City on that Planet, we have to wonder how many Engineer Ships are out there?  This makes a limited number of Engineers left.......

Unless they have other outposts...

I think we will get a Alien movie thats for certain...  its a case of when and what kind of a movie.

As time ticks on, it means less and less validity to any kind of Alien movie that has Ripley, unless we get a CGI Ripley and how knows how far Technology will come in 10 years....   As time ticks on, its less likely Ridley Scott will be able to work on another Alien movie too.

The Door is open for a Reboot of the Franchise but i dont think this would be needed as there is plenty of room for the Xenomorph or similar to be explored within the context of the unanswered and uncovered elements within the Franchise.

I hope we get a sequel to Alien Covenant, but i think even if this does not happen for many many years it could still be done and tied into Alien Covenant and Alien, because it needs not have Daniels or Tennessee and they could have a movie set many years latter where we only see David as remains of his corpse, where his head can be activated to Narrate what transpired.

But as far as Ripley... the longer time goes by the less logical a sequel would be, and i would only EVER consider Ripley in TWO ways.. 

1) A Alien Resurrection sequel, where she starts to Evolve into something else, so make up will hide her Age.

2) Play Amanda Ripley in a time set UP-TO 10 years before Aliens... but as time goes on, this would be less likely path due to Miss Weavers Age. But could work if done in the next 2-4 years tops.  Which would allow Alien Isolation to be tied into the Franchise and also explain that Amandas Death was not Natural but a cover up/murder.

Excellent work... thanks for the share ATI

Nice one. I didn't know that one about the 2001 EVA.

NB Ridley Scott has a thing about eyes, especially in Blade Runner. That movie is just stuffed full of other eye-related matters. Like Chew's eye factory, the owl blinking, Roy sticking his thumbs into Tyrell's eyes, the red glint in Deckard and Rachel's eyes, the Voight-Kampff machine display...

Interesting comparisons.... i will have to try and watch Soldier its a movie i have never seen.

@red0guy

Yeah i understand we get survivors, but the set up always lent to events that would throw them back into the Horror, Ripley would have had a new start in life had the company not built a Colony on LV-426 and she would have mourned the loss of her daughter due to being in Cryo-sleep floating for 50+ years.   Hicks, Ripley and Newt believed the Nightmare was over after Aliens and would go onto some Happy Ending.... until the events of Alien 3...   Alien Resurrection we see Ripley 8 survive but they arrive at a Earth that appears to be in some great disappear where global conflict between Humans and Synthetics and Synthetics vs Synthetics has happened. 

My Happy Ending comment was really aimed at how Miss Weaver said Ripley and Hicks and Newt deserved a Happy Ending, which means that she felt Alien 3 was a injustice, yet she was the one who wanted Ripley killed off...   I think its the Peril that Characters Face that help with Good Characters. Its a shame no movie after Alien 3 really captured this much.

@Michelle

I can kind of agree with the last statement and totally agree with the rest, i think the Problem is too many Aliens Fans seem to expect and think that Prometheus is not a good ALIEN movie, yet the idea was to move away from ALIEN and explore something else, where Kung Ho Action Characters are not needed, and i think with Daniels they tried to tread the even ground between a Dr Shaw and Ripley.

There was a lot of potential in how Dr Shaw for at least half a movie could have been explored.  The set up similar for Daniels but its a bit hard now with the kind of ending they chose (Daniels realizing Walter is actually David).

Legend what a movie that was...

I honestly don't see how Disney will make Alien horror films. But there is a chance they let Ridley Scott do the final chapter of his prequels as he intended to. Without the alien in the title, like Prometheus. I would definitely see it and buy the bluray too.

And I suppose the Alien fans would see it at least once, with or without the beast or the horror. 

Excellent post, going to feature it awhile. 

I have not seen Soldier. Kurt is amazing (Escape from New York, The Thing)! 

This is a very well laid out post. I cannot absorb it all, but I am confident there are those around here who can, and I thank you for the post. +1