Comments (Page 461)

leto: it cannot be walter on the ship because the give away that he was david was that he didn't know of the cabin on the lake. if it were walter but evil, he would have bean able to bluff to daniells about the cabin. also he requests muther to play the enternce to valhala witch is something that david had a personal connectio to.

The Alien-less Alien plot I refer to (re: Ati's suggestion) could be in the form of a film or tv series, and serves to widen the universe without necessary focussing on the xenomorph.

Much like Rogue One has done to the compliment the main Star Wars Episodes - fill in some loose ends, tell some backstory, widen the universe, add a different perspective to things.

It may be a way to appease certain elements of the fractured fan-base so that the main body of the franchise doesn't get sidetracked or derailed....or do what AC did and try to please absolutely everyone in a too-short a run time.

Ridley Scott need not have anything to so with it, give it to an up-and-coming or visionary director, someone like Saman Kesh or vincenzo natali 

joylitt you are right yes. To me the Alien franchise always represented the fear or of what is lurking out in space. It is about encountering a species that is a dark perverted mirror of ourselves, something we don't want to acknowledge in ourselves - that we are a chaotic, violent pest species that consumes worlds.

The Derelict on LV426 gave us that first hint of the threats humanity could expect to encounter exploring and colonising beyond our local system. What else is out there? How large-scale a threat is the xenomorph species throughout the universe? Do they any natural predators or they an apex predator? That is what I would like to see explored...like you said something Prometheus teased us with.

The AI and creator/creation circle is at best an interesting sub-plot, but should not be the main focus of this franchise. Let Bladerunner tackle those questions if Ridley so chooses to pursue that theme.

From the source shared by joylitt, Thanks joylitt.

Scott brings up a Facebook experiment from last summer to prove his point. “They put two AIs together and they were communing. It already invented a f—ing language! And they couldn’t decipher what the language was so they had to switch them off. What was said and where’s it gone? They could have already implemented something we don’t know.”

There is one possible direction I can see Ridley moving in, but how it will translate into a movie is something else, but here is my take on it.

In most Sci-fi movies when alien life is discovered it is usually by humans encountering something, and then discovering whether what they have met is hostile. With Prometheus we have humans and AI ( in the form of David) meeting an aliens. What we have not seen is any alien AI yet. So what would happen if human produced AI was to meet up with alien AI? Would humans know that had happened, and what if both AI’s came up with their own agenda.

Suppose that the Engineers came up with an AI that turned on them in the same way that David has become morally bankrupt, and produced their version of the xenomorph. Along comes David and develops their work into what we have seen in AC. What we could get is David developing his version of the xeno and at some point, human AI at WY ends up communicating with engineer AI. This could gives us a possible scenario that David ends up battling engineers in some far flung part of the universe, whilst human AI wants to produce what David has created and discovers that there is a derelict ship on LV426.

The reason I am bringing this up as a possible scenario, is because we could get a movie where communication between human AI and alien AI is awakened. How this could be represented on screen is any ones guess. Where would the focus of such a movie be ? I think this would open the door for something different and possibly more psychological, with more inference to AI activity than action, horror or xenos. But in some way they could all play a part, just not a big one which could keep the budget down.

I think the Colonial Marines did just that but never encountered the Xanomorphs. 

"We Endanger Species" indeed.

IRaptus This is the problem I see with your suggestion: all evidence suggests that Ridley Scott's vision is pretty anthropocentric. His mythos will probably just include different versions of ourselves: creators, creation and sub-creations. I am wondering if he does not believe there are aliens out there anymore. He seems to be interested in things that represent a more imminent danger to humanity (which in my opinion is probably even more far fetched than an encounter with aliens). Unfortunately, I think this new direction is at odds with what most of us expect from the Alien franchise. Not to mention Ridley Scott has teased us to death with a wider alien universe in Prometheus: all for nothing. Unfortunately, now it seems that the worse movie in the franchise is going to be, the way he sees it, a turning point for the franchise so it will become something it was never meant to be.

'Ridley Scott says he will do another Alien movie with no horror and no alien'

It sounds like a brilliant idea, I think, since it would be the perfect Alien movie: the monster is in the darkness from the beginning to the end, and we have to use our creative imagination - and that sounds very scary.

Ati I would like to see something like that too. I'll probably get ripped a new one for suggesting this, but perhaps they could do a Rogue One on the Alien Universe. Take a step away from the main elements of the franchise and explore some of the mythos in the universe.

Perhaps a group of deep space salvage explorers find a derelict ship in space. Board it to find the dead crew, and the husk of a dead xeno... Perhaps W-Y or a competitor of them find out and hunt them down to silence the discovery. And it goes from there. The xeno would be in it, but not a central threat to the film.

Explore more about the human dominion in space. The central habitats and world, the political climate, space exploration and colonisation endeavours. But have the looming threat of the Xeno's. Where are they? Could they invade? etc

Why people so sure what Walter remained on Planet 4? Why not David? Maybe they concluded a pact... a covenant. David remained on Planet 4 (mb even dead) and Walter accept to David's mission and decided to "rule in hell" - go to in ship on Origae-6.

Remember the SCAR on Walter's face (in fight with David) - we have how he "heal" it on Covenant. David haven't a scar on his face. Nobody saw they battle. There's no reason to make a scar specially.

Why does Walter says David's ID on aboard? Mb the Covenant starship was intended specifically for David! This was a covenant between WY and android. And, I think, what Walter was a new body for David or successor. And (on Planet 4) David told him his own ID. Why? Because a Walter has a better body and more resources.

I think this is a interesting Question...

I have not listened to no commentary, but there are a lot of Questions raised regarding the David vs Walter Fight, a lot of Questions Raised regarding the Regenerative Ability of Walter and David, and we have to assume that they can only Regenerate to a degree.

We have to Safely Assume Walter had been incapacitated by David and was unable to follow him.

Regarding the Engineer Ships as I Moon Girl mentioned, regarding the Ships, we have to assume maybe there was NO MORE Ships or that there is some Reason David could not have taken one. The Concept Work and deleted Scene shows the Hanger has a number of Ships but it was suggested that after the Bombardment the Ships had entered a Quarantine/Dis-activated State.  This is a bit of Bad Writing however, because surely in 10 years David would have found a way to Activate a Ship.

But as we dont see any more in the Theatrical Cut we can not assume for 100% that there are more ships, as this then gives good reason to why David was stranded.

I dont think Walter would be able to use Engineer Technology as well as David because David had learned and Studied Proto Languages that allowed him to Speak to the Engineers. So we could assume without the lessons David would maybe not have been able to understand.... but then also with AC we have to ask how did David know how to play the Piano if this was the first time he was activated?  Something has to be learned by being passed on, which the Flute Scene showed.

We cant rule out Walter being able to learn how to use Engineer Technology etc, given time but a Big Question would be in what STATE of Disrepair is Walter in?    The David that Dr Shaw went to collect would be of no use in TWO Parts especially if they are far apart (Head/Body)

I think Walter is Alive, but disabled as i really think this is the only logical explanation to how the Engineers are able to determine that David has done all this and where David is off to, The Question is how do the Engineers get this information from Walter?

@ BigDave

Like you I believe when they were struggling with the script in 2014 thy decided to solve two problems :-

1) Bring back the ALIEN life cycle.

2) Make David responsible for it. 

The collateral impact was to slaughter the Engineers and kill off Elizabeth.

There are two difficulties with this approach.

David does not mediate at all in the movie he is a ruthless son of a bitch.

The Xenomorph is not a species its a weapon.

In the next movie David needs real challenges Walter and the Engineers would be a good place to look. The Xenomorph's are treated merely as weapons, the difficulty is they get out of control has been done in two previous movies.

If Weyland Yutani are incoming with A I that could set up the final hybridising of the Xeno as Bio Mechanical and collect all the A I elements together.    

Indeed it was those almost Human Quality and Aesthetic that gave the Xenomorph the Presence that it had, i think some restrictions came from the Man in a Suit, and i feel the Aesthetic they are taking now is like we see in the Queen Alien in the Franchise as far as the Legs. 

This is something we see with the Xenomorph in AC, but its also the difference we see in Alien Isolation Xenomorph compared to Alien. I think by the time we get the reveal of the Classic Xenomorph again, it will go with the Aesthetic of the Isolation game, as opposed to the Legs of the 1979 Movie.

Where did you read this Critters5? Even if this is the case, Ridley is notorious for getting great products out of small budgets and is rather proud of that. Fox seems to fully back him though if you take Snider's comments into account.

“Alien: Covenant” stumbled at the box office. Is that franchise over?
It was a disappointment, but I trust Ridley [Scott] and Emma [Watts] to know the right story when they find it. When universes are as rich as “Alien,” they can stay in a too familiar groove — in which case you’re in trouble — but they can also find a planet or a storyline or a villain that also lives in that universe that can be groundbreaking." -Stacey Snider, Fox CEO

@I Moon Girl

Indeed i meant that Planet 4 would not be too far in regards to the future of the Franchise, as we see a Evolution of Ships Technology as far as the Speeds they can Travel..   Its certain that the Covenant was a MASSIVE Mission for the Company, this Ship was not Cheap, those Engines are MASSIVE

Its a case of finding out WHEN the Covenant Ship left, as far as what year, the hints would have to indicate (if the Novel is to be taken as Canon for information) that the Covenant Ship suffered the Neutrino Burst during its FIRST Recharge Cycle.  Which would then mean that  Origae-6 is actually 8X Further than Planet 4

And so the point i was making is in terms of the Explored Galaxy within the Franchise this location is very close compared to the potential for Space Travel the Company could explore.  But a thing to remember is that Space is So Huge...   like a Ocean and finding a Missing Item at see,  having the ability to Travel from Europe to USA in 8-10 hours does not mean that every inch of the Sea Between can be covered easy if something went missing.

The Nostromo was refitted with improved Engines that allowed it to Travel the 39.7LY within 10 Months, and so the Nostromo has a Speed of about 47X the Speed of Light, the Prometheus however has a speed of 19X the Speed of Light.

We dont know how fast the Covenant is simply because we would need to know the LY Distance of Planet 4 or Origae-6 and the Departure Date of the Covenant, so indeed its a good point you raise regarding not knowing how FAST the Covenant is and thus not knowing how far Planet 4 is.

But when we consider in the year 2179 the Sulaco reached LV-426 in 3 weeks which gives it a Speed of about 670X the Speed of Light, i think Planet 4 would be very close for such Technology at that time (2179)

BigDave I very much agree, it was like a roller coaster and things were happening so quickly. A longer run-time was needed. I understand shorter run-times are more audience friendly but if it helps a film flesh itself out better its only to it's detriment to cut it down.

Didn't Fox say they were going greatly shrink the funding for David 3? How do you see that playing out Bigdave? 

Certainly.... David dreaming of sexual relations with his Fathers Daughter would certainly explain some of his actions in AC

@Lawrence of Arabia

Your replies are hitting the Nail on the head as to the point i was trying to make, its about the WHY and so when i meant the Xenomorph, i meant the One David created it was not handled well enough apart from to show HOW and WHY it was created.

The Problem was Alien Covenant was trying to cover too much, that it could not fully do justice to every element, a movie that would require better use of the Xenomorph and Neomorph and cover the Engineers a bit more would have required at least 3 hours.

Everything Xeno/Neo Morph related happened a bit to quick, I dont think having them was a mistake, it was just there was too much going on to really do them justice.

It appeared purely to be a case of LOOK this a Egg, LOOK this is a Face Hugger, LOOK this is a Xenomorph and LOOK how it goes around killing the Covenant Crew and SEE David Created it. But really this comes down to restraints of a running time for a Movie...

Alien Covenant would have worked better if it was  SPLIT into TWO movies but off course it would mean many more would need to be done to get to those ANSWERS in Alien which a lot of Fans Want and so a lot of Shoe-horning and brushing aside some things (not revealing much detail) has to be done.

@Critters5

Ridley Scott had said he could make as much as 6 movies within the Franchise, even mentioning he wishes to go the whole WAR of the WORLDS on us.... but at this time he also said the Franchise has to be about HIM (Xenomorph)

I think what FOX/RS need to do is drive us into the Back Door of ALIEN and give us those Answers, and then it leaves him free to explore NONE Xenomorphs in other movies. I think we sometimes forget the Biggest Clues that are there for us to SEE.

Ridley Scott seems to think the WHY the Xenomorph was created is more important than showing Xenomorphs Chest Bursting out of people LEFT, RIGHT and CENTER Prometheus began to cover this for us, showing us the Space Jockey (Engineers) are Genetic Space Gardeners and they experimented with the Black Goo to use on Mankind we never got a CRYSTAL CLEAR reason WHY but this looked something that would be answered in a sequel.....  But down the Line RS felt that actually having it as our own Creation (David) is the one behind it and WHY is something that Interest Ridley Scott more.

There are a lot of clues to where this is going that people overlook, the Weyland Prologue is a great set up for this, so to is when we look at HOW/WHY the Engineers were preserved as GODS the answers are staring us in the FACE to where RS is going....  We have to look at WHY David is doing what he is doing, and you can see the way he was treated by Weyland and people like Holloway have molded him into the kind of Robot that he is.  Alien Covenant showed us that David started to have a lot of Care towards Miss Elisabeth Shaw

We then need to take a look at RS and his comments regarding WHAT KIND of a World would David build?

If this movie is to not feature much about the Xenomorphs, then this rules out David merely using the Colonist to be turned ONE-BY-ONE into EGGS and also David is off to Origae-6 and i think another clue is when WALTER (David)  replied to Daniels when she asked WHAT KIND of a World they can now build... his reply "if they are kind it will be a kind world"  i think this here is the ROUTE that we are being taken.

We also need to look at the Reason for David Bombing the Engineers and his Hatred of Mankind, "They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection, They don't deserve to start again and I'm not going to let them."

David sees the Error of Mankinds ways, and it could be possible he actually has a change of heart and decides to maybe give the Covenant Colonist a Fresh Start, i also think he will come up with a Elaborate Excuse for the loss of the Colonist during the Solar Storm, and pass himself off as a Savior to those Colonist.  So i can see us arrive at a New Colony set up where David will be seen as Walter and then i think we will see signs of David wishing to take control over Mankind and i think some event will trigger David realizing that these Humans are also the same as ones he has dealt with or they discover the truth.

The Alien Covenant Prequel also gives some hints to where its going too....  The group wishing to SABOTAGE the Mission were Afraid that Mankinds Deep Exploration could end up getting us NOTICED by other ALIEN Races and cause them to come to Earth.    And so i also see THIS being explored were for some REASON the Engineers never returned and left us to BE...

Why? maybe we will find out?

But the Antics of Mankind going to that PLACE (LV-223) believing it was a Invitation has lead to the Events that lead David to Bombard those Engineers and this ACTION could now have DIRE Consequences for Mankind.

They were essential to the plot. David is looking to create the "Perfect Organism", much like his creator Peter Weyland. But unlike Weyland and his creators, he's looking to create something that will withstand the tests of time and mortality. He found the Enigneers work and is perfecting what they have done. As to the suspense, that is subjective as I found it suspenseful but to each their own. Like the Neomorph births were well-done and the action set pieces.

Maybe he meant they were rushed and really had nothing to do with the plot in terms of understanding them. They were they to please fans but they were rushed and used in a lazy manner with no suspenseful build-up or plot. 

BigDave, I disagree about how the Xenos were brushed to the side in A:C. The creature was prevalent throughout the whole film if you count the Neomorph (which is really just an under-developed Xeno). Ridley hasn't forgotten the question, if you watch his latest interview he brings the Space Jockey question up as the whole point of the prequels.

True Dave. I can't see Fox not interjecting again. Question, how do they take the pulse of fans? How do they know what we want; what is the forum? Can you imagine if RS takes the series completely away from Engineers and Xeno and it literally is like a Bladerunner movie? lol

I'd take a David 3 over a Ripley 5 any day. Ridley said the Engineers would be back for the next one and now that the Xenos are on the table who knows how the next film will turn out. I'm expecting a clash of sorts.

Well i think the Big Question now is this....

Do FOX give RS full reign of where he wants to go? or do they take on board negative reaction from the Fans?

It appears the Xenomorph was shoe-horned in to please Fans disappointed at the lack of Xenomorph in Alien, but also due to the growing interest in ALIEN 5 with the disappointment of Alien Covenant compared to Prometheus, i think RS could be suggesting they need look at the differences of both movies.  The Big Difference RS may think is the lack of the Xenomorph, but this is  mistake because it was not because Alien Covenant had Xenomorphs, its the way they was handled.. The Xenomorph was brushed away much like the Engineers.  

RIDLEY SCOTT and FOX need to Remember the Reasons for doing  PREQUEL..

This was that NO movie in the Franchise ever Answered the Question regarding the Derelict and its Cargo.

1) WHY was the Space Jockey Carrying the Cargo.

2) WHERE did the Cargo come from.

These TWO fundamental Questions lead us to as far as 1) Who the Space Jockey Race are and their Purpose and Agenda and 2) Where did the Xenomorph Originate from.

And so these TWO lead us to ENGINEERS and XENOMORPHS where the connection is the BLACK GOO what Alien Covenant did was push aside these more in Favor of what a Rogue AI would do with the  Black Goo, and RS is touching upon the WHY more than the HOW but i feel while this is a interesting point they can not deviate away too much from the Engineers a ALIEN movie has to thus cover the Engineers and maybe give us some reason for how the Black Goo came about... it does not have to feature the Xenomorph, but it has to set up so the next one will introduce the Classic Xenomorph.

I wish we could get a confirmation if he is writing David 3 to be the final before Alien 1 or is there going to be a David 4 in his mind and planning. I am also curious where Fox will take the newly developed Alien mythology in the future with a new non-senile director in years to come. 

I think we need to take heed of RS previous comments, as he could well have given a lot of clues to where this is going and indeed the Xenomorph has been done over and over, and can we really have another TWO movies where we see as he put it... Face Hugging and Chest Bursting?

Alien Covenants Failings was not the Xenomorph, it was how the Xenomorph was never used, like the Engineers they all seemed to be pushed to the side to follow the Evolution and Story Arc of DAVID and while this could be ok as the Alien Franchise was pushed about RIPLEYS Story Arc, they cant have it as just a DAVID Prequel Franchise.

But you have to agree with RS as far as once you keep going back to the Xenomorph it would become overused...  But he can not diverge from the Path, not if we are going to LITERALLY end up at the BACK-END of ALIEN

If RS continues the Path that David is the Xenomorph CREATOR then we have to remember we have some way to go before Alien, with a 18 year Gap to cover a few events...  The next Installment is likely to show David going to Origae-6 but i think it will by-pass a lot of the ON THE WAY section but then i feel the Next Installment will have to show us HOW Davids Xenomorphs EVOLVE and WHO/WHEN/WHY they end up in their THOUSANDS on a ENGINEER Ship that happens to end up very close to LV-223

So the 3rd movie in this NEW Prequel Series would certainly i feel have to connect to the Space Jockey Event and explain how Davids Creation ended up on LV-426. I cant see them dragging it out for more than TWO movies, because doing so with NO Xenomorph/Space Jockey Answers may put a lot of Fans off.

But you can see whats building up, where it the Questions of WHY/WHEN that are more important than the HOW and so if we are TWO MOVIES away from Alien, and the Final One will give us those ANSWERS then indeed having the next movie introduce and show the Xenomorph too much could leave it Watered Down for the Finally.

I dont think RS is going the whole AI route, not as in directly as far as WY Androids and MUTHUR Computer Systems, i think while they will be explored, we need to take note that this is a ALIEN Franchise and i feel RS will be pulling in the ENGINEERS into the Story at the Climax or 3rd Act of the Next Movie that sets up the missing pieces to ALIEN as the only pieces we have YET is those Face Huggers on the Covenant and by Coincidence Thousands of Colonist.

Breaking!

Xenomorph says he will do another Alien movie with no AI and no Ridley.

Has there been any word on filming date of David 3? 

I agree with BigDave, everyone is overreacting and assuming A LOT. Let the guy do what he does best and what's best for the narrative. 

Prometheus - Not enough Aliens!1!!

Covenant - We didn't want Aliens/Not how I like my Aliens!1!!!1

Covenant 2 - Why is he rejecting Aliens!1!!!???

Make up your minds people, beggers can't be choosers. Prometheus was always a marriage between Alien and Blade Runner and since David is *the Ripley* of these prequels it makes sense the path Ridley has chosen. Also he never said the new film wouldn't feature the titular beast but that they aren't the focus as there is a larger mythology at play that is far more interesting and fresher than the same old shtick.

"Create a better version of himself"

This would indeed repeat the Theme being explored here that Sub-creating Back Fires on the Creator, and so it would be interesting if David Creates something that Rebels against him.

You raise some good points Spearfish and its quite possible those could be explored upon.

Regarding the AI i think RS/FOX need to get a massive Grip on what the Franchise is about... because Fans will indeed want to be seeing Xenomorphs, i feel a movie that barely shows any... i.e even less than Prometheus and then Totally Distances itself from the Xenomorph will Ultimately Fail for one simple reason.

The FRANCHISE does not have a massive base, and none Alien Fans have not Flocked to take interest in a Story about a Rogue Robot.

While the Company its Agenda and the Synthetics are all part of the Alien Franchise, they are just like RIPLEY simply nothing ALIEN and to have a Movie with a Alien Prefix that touches only upon Human Exploration and Synthetic AI would not really be a ALIEN movie... and they cant go and make a movie and remove the Alien Prefix because only Alien Fans would know the movie connects to Alien Franchise, and Prometheus.

So for a ALIEN Movie it has to link to Aliens, and related events and so by that maybe yes it has to have XENOMORPHS especially if its going to directly link to ALIEN but also a ALIEN movie could delve into the ENGINEERS they certainly are Alien, but what also could be touched upon as a Alien Theme is the BLACK-GOO and also what other RACES have the Engineers created or who CREATED them.

Two movies solely based on Weyland-Yutani and Rogue AI they created would not contribute to a ALIEN movie.

May be a bit odd for someone who likes Alien movies but the last really interesting movie i watched was Ernest & Celestine. I really liked that one.

Maybe I'm get'n soft on my old days. XD

Again?!

Oi, Disney! Buy that sh!t, fire the staff and do it like you did with Star Wars. Just to end this posse. ¬.¬ 

IMHO - Sir Ridley will do what he will do, as the artist he is.  I am just one fan who is asking to have an explanation of 'The ways of the Engineers'!  Can I just get some Engineer lore?!?!  Rant over, carry on.

I agree with Leto, I'm OK with exploring AI because it is very scary but the movie is called Alien for a reason. I want to see alien experiments and at least one good alien scene or I will be pissed. After this movie I pray they give the series to a new director who does not hate it so much. 

If you like Scandinavian thrillers, this is one of my favs:

The Absent One (2014)

'The murder of young twins initially implicates a group of upper class students as the killers, though the case takes a turn or two from its starting point.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWm15WSM4sE

BigDave - "Again this shows us that RS feels the Franchise is larger than just the Xenomorph".

Larger than Xeno, yes. Engineers, Black Goo, other alien creatures - yes. But not freaking AI! No. Just no! Alien franchise all about dangerous space and extraterrestrials organisms. Not about banal humans problems - corporations or AI. It is soooo boring. And we have Blade Runner for it.

IRaptus - You're right! :D He seems to be a Space Rider Jockey! :D

Thx for the images. The first looks great.

'a certain film director' - That's true, but I don't want an underwater movie, just some scenes, as you can see in the first painting, it has a fantastic atmosphere in my opinion.

BigDave - 'Another way to use a Underwater Scene?  ATLANTIS if Origae-6 is a place that long long ago had a Humanoid Civilization but is long gone with no signs, until a Underwater Discovery is made.'

That is a brilliant idea! I'd be glad to see a similar scenario!

BigDave - My pleasure.

Of course it was not made for the movie, my previous comment is a joke. :)

However, it could have been used in a scene where David is watching Vicker's dreams. And at the end of the scene we see David smiling... :)