Comments (Page 758)

I love it! That makes a lot of sense, Wey-Yu wanting to perfect the pathogen to wipe out life on alien planets and make way for themselves.

Man, can you imagine being one of the colonists and being woken up and brought up to speed on everything that is going on?? Quite a rude awakening! Looking forward to more!

@IRaptus That is super interesting about equilibrium theory! It makes me wonder if all these Mars missions could throw things out of whack...

Mine and Lone's view is it is the buried head of a Deacon. Charlie looks at it and the mural and says "this is just another tomb" which in an earlier script was said outside the headroom door. As soon as I saw it in the cinema it reminded me of an ALIEN skull. 

In the trailers a sacrificial cup was in its place suggesting the  Deacon is caught up in the ritual of sacrifice, note the christ like pose of the lower Deacon in the mural who appears to be bathing in what of course could become the mutagen in the urns. 

Big Dave has said before it is a shard of the source power of the Engineers that would have been revealed in Prometheus : Pandemonium (one of the titles for the original Prom 2).

Its knowing how visual Ridley is that to put in ones mind an Alien skull seems to me to much like coincidence.

Interestingly in all other respects BD and I share the same view about what is recorded in the headroom. Some elements are Easter Eggs but some like the frescos had genuine intent to tell the story of LV223. The theft of the catalyser and to experiment with their own sub creation driven by their hubris which turned round and got out and destroyed them. The creator/creation parallax which repeats itself with the engineers/xeno strain and Mankind/A. I. all three elements of which will come together in the next prequel. Pietro the editor has recently said they talked about Milton's Paradise Lost as applied to fallen angels and the Engineers on LV 223 represent that. They stole the forbidden fruit and suffered punishment and if it is stolen again the Promethean punishment of the ripping out of ones entrails will repeat itself over and over again. To seek the catalyser and harness it is to unleash the devil.  

It is merely speculation on my part but I believe the catalyser was booby trapped and its misuse generated punishment. Just as mankind entering the headroom set off the atmospheric changes, the fresco mutation and the leaking of the urns and created the storm. In one of the tie books you can clearly see the fresco turns into an Alien Egg - a prophecy that the coming of mankind to LV223 leads to the XXX121. Indeed the barren Elizabeth sets in motion the forerunner.

Wonder how many pages the booklet will have. From the photo it seems like a pretty decent book.

Always though Holloway should of investigated the green object alot more. It seemed to have some importance to the Engineers.

Holloway should've removed it, bagged it up and run tests on it back on the Prometheus.

It was a very interesting object and testing it could've provided some answers.

Mahaps the experiments were davids sick way of bearing children through her. Perhaps he views the Xenos as his children, hence him coddling the chestburster 

@Starlogger

"I think David TRIED to do things to save her, causing all sorts of horrific mutations, defects, etc. after the fact."

Ok, wow. O_O ...I actually really like this theory and  it seems pretty plausible. When you put it that way...my eyes are like...opened right now, because some of David's sketches seem to support that, too:

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=370I

Actually, now that I think about it, when I think of how upset David was when Oram killed the protomorph, I can picture that he was genuinely hurt by the loss of Shaw.

Wow, yes, Starlogger , I like that theory a lot and I think you are right.

@HeroProp Same thing ;)

@Lawrence Yes, I have that book...preordered it and posted about it the day I got it, in fact. YES, it is a collection of information and beautiful pictures as well. Almost as good as a novel with footnotes!

@BigDave & @dk...yep, had that on LP! A friend and I would transcribe the whole thing, listen over and over, then act it all out...just HAD to be done!

@Ati  COME ON OVER! 

@dk LOL, of COURSE we will get milked...and we will buy, buy, buy buy...cuz that's what rabid fanbases do.

Hell, look at what they did with the DVD releases of LOtRs...and Harry Potter for that matter---nothing like raping your fanbase, I guess.

Man, I miss Dr. Curt Connors and so wish he were here...

I read something someone posted on this awhile back, and if I'm not mistaken, it was changed to the "green gem" in post, as the trailers showed something else in that very spot (I don't remember exactly what it was)...some of the youtube "experts" (Mr H, Alien Theorist, Hybrid/NickH) have theorized on what it could represent...but there is nothing definitive.

Now...patiently awaiting BigDave's 14 page exposition to explain it all so clearly... ;)

I agree with the OP in that I think SOMETHING happened that caused Shaw to die horrifically, and that it wasn't of David. AND, I think David TRIED to do things to save her, causing all sorts of horrific mutations, defects, etc. after the fact.

Until I see a canonical film that ABSOLUTELY excludes that possibility with facts, then that's what I choose to believe.

@Ltdanno

I like your analysis of David's personality flaws and inferiority complex. However, one thing we do know, is that Shaw didn't die in the crash and that David kept her alive and experimented on her for a while.

I do agree that David thought he "loved" Shaw, in his own weird way. He viewed Daniels as a replacement for Shaw, and he told her he "loved" her, too. He said: "You stink of humanity. But I'll love you just the same."

But when David "loves" someone, it does not mean he cares about their well-being. He "loves" as in "enjoys". Like when you say "I love chicken", you maybe derive enjoyment from chicken but don't have an investment in its happiness or well-being.

I think that is what David means when he "loves" someone, he genuinely derives enjoyment from their existence, for only for such reasons as satisfying his scientific curiosity.

I think this pretty major flaw was fixed when they built Walter, so that Walter is actually invested in the safety and well-being of humans.

Think i'll just visit my local Target and pick up the booklet version. I assume it'll be on the rack and not a special order item?

I already preordered the 4K on Amazon.

Will check the BestBuy version.

This is my first time here and I know I'm late but I just rewatched Prometheus and couldn't get Shan's death out of my mind.  I read your thoughts and here's mine.  Let me know what you think.

I think David grew to "love" Shaw in his own way robotic logical way.  I theorize that while Shaw was sleeping he gained access to the ships computer and realized what the engineers were up to, he may have even communicated with the planet before waking her.  I think he was profoundly grateful for Shaw putting him back together and wanted to surprise her with a grand gesture (remember he watched her dreams in Prometheus and got a far different perspective of humanity than he did from Wyland).  I think David woke Shaw before they reached the planet and kept his plans to release the biological weapons they created to destroy Earth on the engineers, thereby giving the engineers a taste of their own medicine.

After David released the weapon I think Shaw figured it out and then realized that David will never understand humanity and crashed the ship so he couldn't leave (she probably died in the crash).

At that point I'm guessing that David had an epiphany.  He realized that no matter how kind a human (Shaw) is to him, he will never understand the 'logical imperfections/irrelevancies' humans have and therefore will always be viewed as lesser even though his logic is more sound.  He may have remembered Shaw telling him at the end of Prometheus that he doesn't understand why Shaw wants to know why her creators wanted to destroy her because the answer was irrelevant...she replies, the reason why he will never understand is because she's human and he's just a robot.  That combined with Shaw's obsession in learning all she can about her creators despite the probability that they are really really bad (not logical from a purely factual based analysis) gives him the idea that he's been going about it all wrong.  Why is he trying to hard to be accepted by humans when he can become a "creator" and will therefore have the inherent respect of every being he creates (remember how happy he was when his latest being stared at him in awe...before it was killed).

i think he loved Shaw in his way and had a human trait of an inferiority complex that he couldn't be accepted as a human which is probably why he took all his knowledge of 'Alien' DNA and rapid evolution and chose not to make a better killing being but to make them have more human traits (body style not traditional alien form at all...very human like).   But, since he started with alien biological weapon DNA he has yet to remove their killer instinct.

I think at the end, when David killed the "upgraded" version of him for selfish reasons was the most human act he had ever done.  And then, by luck he got access to a bunch of human embryos and DNA and realized that since he can create and doesn't die he can be a God.

Those are my thoughts, let me know what flaws you find.

Good news, I wanted to ask about it yesterday. :)

Episode 2 coming soon

Maybe we'll get the Xenomorph vs Neomorph scene as a deleted scene? But then again, we might not. Either way, I can't wait.

VivisectedEngineer - They are from NASA, anybody can download and observe the photos made by the rovers. I downloaded this from their page, copy to your comp and you can zoom in:

Michelle thought it contained or was an Alien head. I think either DNA from amber type like Jurassic park as Covenant showed proof Ridley will borrow from lots of places. Another theory is alchemy/ sorcerer stone as the urns and goo all seem to relate to all kinds of madness. Furious Gods at 1:49 showed the altar and item but had a bright light blocking a good viewing. The back half looks carved open so who knows. Good luck findimg your answers

A79, I wonder if Ridley has set contracts where he controls what can be modified etc for a directors cut type stuff. I just hope the commentary has the writers doing it too as Ridley kinda mumbled a lot in the Prometheus commentary. 

IRaptus Thank you very much. Yes, you are right. I remember watching documentaries about islands that were invaded by rats or spiders. There is the spooky island where even the trees are totally covered by spiderwebs.

I think that will be an oversight. Again, another good spot. The thing is that post A:C we are now finding so many inconsistencies regarding the Pathogens effects in various hosts and their eventual outcome / end product.

It would be fair to say that theoretically the gun was of a sufficient standard that it would rip the suit and puncture the skin causing leakage. The Acid blood may of then dripped out causing damage to the floor of the entrance.

So i dont think they purposely left the acid blood effects out - i think they thought there was enough going on with the fight scene that it didnt need that effect. Even though that is what should have happened if Fifield was bleeding inside the ship during his end.

I doubt they planned Fifield to not chang in that way, in some way hinting that not all hosts gain Acid blood. I reckon it is another oversight to through onto the mountainous pile.

joylitt I love how you are asking the fundamental question of terraforming....do we have a right to interfere with an alien ecosystem. Like you point out, even a probe or a drone that has not been properly sterilised can carry bacteria, micro-organisms or pathogens that can invade an alien ecosystem given the chance.

Earth history is rife with example's of invasive species totally wiping out insular ecosystem native species that have existed in a state of equilibrium for centuries, and are not equipped to deal with a new invader. 

Not the best source but here is quick run-down on The Equilbrium Theory and Island Biogeography if it interests/helps your works.

https://www.cbd.int/island/invasive.shtml

Great job :)     

Also the beat is not cooked ANYTHING can be scary if filmed creatively enough just lok at CHILDREN lmao...

Well, I heavily disagree with Jodn Logan and 'David made the Alien theory'. So... yeah...

@Indyfront

The reason that "David made the Alien" is due to John Logan who said if your going to reintroduce the life cycle creature you have to deal with its origin to make the story fresh. That  was what informed the way he developed the screen play.

For me the big story is the Alien Pathogen out of which emerges unsympathetic over sexualised parasitical outcomes with only one objective survival. That the xxx121 is ancient or modern does not concern me. For me the creation story and the origins of the Alien Pathogen are much more fascinating.  

Standing back what disappoints me is the way the Prometheus elements were handled in Covenant and the third act which for me proves the "beast is cooked". Given that David has not built up any emotional capital and is capable of anything and reduced to the "curling moustachioed villain"  I think he is cooked to. What might save a final prequel is the elements he confronts and when for the first time (or second being headless) he does not have the upper hand. 

NathanAdler - Great question.

The colour is most interesting to me.

It has the glow - and the green seems to be the same colour green that, when David examines the Engineer Door and gets some goo on his fingers, he takes a closer look and the substance on his gloves seems to contain micro particles that are the same colour?

Any thoughts on possible connection ?

Stand back everybody. Stand back....

BigDave is on his way;)

I will wait for a review here before buying it.

In worst case scenarios there are no hidden scenes and just RL set-recaps which we similar-like saw floating around in the inet.

@Michelle Johnston

I hope you are right about Scott taking note of the appeal of the Aliens being an ancient evil, and takes note vociferously. I also hope that Scott is trolling us with this David stuff. Either way, I believe the mythos of the Alien are so ... well... 'Alien'... that mass-interpretation will remain a theme regardless of what Scott asserts. The Alien Universe is SO much bigger than David-8.

I see the Neomorphs, Protomorphs, and others as all different species of Xenomorph. The Deacon, however, had more human DNA than the others and was perhaps the first instance of a Xenomorph taking DNA from its host. That is what I believe David-8 was experimenting to do. Perhaps, the original Xenomorphs (Eldermorphs, if you will) were simply non-DNA-reflex parasitic organisms and David was attempting to upgrade the Xenomorphs to take DNA from their hosts (resulting in the Dragon from Alien 3, for example).

@Big Dave

With the interview with the editor Pietro and the Pod Cast with Alan Dean Foster there is new information to discuss. I look at two issues :-

1) My initial reaction .. and why I had it.

2) The author of the matter Ridley,Pietro and Alan which explain why I had it.

Black Goo

You and I have been involved in detailed conversations on the matter of the "Black Goo" verses the Prologue scene and we interpret it the same. There was an uncorrupted (humanoid) creation origin of the catalyser and then a corrupted Paradise Lost use which created the ALIEN pathogen. Pietro actually talks (in the iv) about how Milton's Paradise Lost and its fallen angels were discussed when they were considering the Prometheus Engineers at the time of Prom. When I have been referring to "Paradise Lost already" that makes sense, the creation of the mutagen was the moment when Paradise was lost in the philosophical sense (it is the eating of the forbidden fruit moment). Micro analysis of the Goo (which I see on here) overlooks this there was a big change between the catalyser and the pathogen which is much bigger than biology and all about the philosophy of the mythos.       

Unsurprisingly the questions over the Alien Pathogen have rather like the virus itself infected conversations about Covenant. My sense is all of the outcomes on Paradise (the planet) are the result of David's release of the payload. Paradise was the Valhalla where the acolyte's lived in a state of eco purity and are the seeding population. Janek was right LV 223 was where all the s... was kept. This for others reading is an interpretation it is not a FACT. However based on this supposition I come back to all your questions you offer about the Egg. Why would David find one pre existing Egg in amongst the civilisation of Paradise surely if we accept the Paradise Monk Engineers were engaged in Xeno production why have LV223, why are they a "simple folk" with a natural look and why did Wayne Haag's design instructions not include any sense of as he calls "Xeno tech". Incidentally he like Alan Dean Foster would hope the Xeno tech was something ancient the Engineers came across, none of this movement suggests Egg laying was going on on Paradise, if it was as you say would not our Tibetan Monks in their Paradise react differently to the arrival of the Juggernaut and it is way to pat as storytelling to say I just came across this little chap lying around that is lazy but not if its a lie.

One of the thread contributors has also reminded us that all the dramatic artefacts in the laboratory point in one direction David is the creator of this variant of the ALIEN pathogen. So for me the circumstantial evidence, like you, is that the Egg conversation with Oram is another dissembling of three that were in the original screen play.

Now for people to want the Xenomorph to be an ancient evil force is well known and Ridley will know that and will leave fans their ambiguity but for the purposes of this backing into, David kickstarted the critters in the cave which presumably are still there when the Engineers return (Ridley) and can be added into the story telling. 

Personally now that Covenant has done no better than Prometheus with the Alien strap line and central motive I wish they had stuck to making the Prometheus Pandemonium follow up because many of the concerns that you had about the route they have taken, which I was relaxed about because of the Martian and John Logan, have come home to roost (unintended pun). We have a formulaic first and third act structure though the first is much better than the third and a muddled incomplete second act. I also know why I reacted so positively to the Crossing, after investing so much in Prometheus and the outcome for D & L I wanted that story told not an Alien re run.

Chili is within his rights to want an ancient alien but the creator of the book is on record as replicating (from the original screen play) AMBIGUITY. 

BigDave Oh- that voice acting on the read along book/tape lol! That was back before home video and everything else so that was the stuff back then.

The Star Wars album at least had the original voice actors- it was just tight audio editing from the movie boiled down to fit on an LP. My friend and I listened to it just about every day the summer SW came out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypq5F33DHCw

5 pics below the "facehugger" reminds me of the Derelict.

@Ati

0_o Are those pictures for real??? Is it just me, or does that first pic look pretty much exactly like a facehugger??

Haha! an Australian accent actually :)

And some photos of the Clementine Mission (Moon) blurred by NASA:

And Google Earth Moon today:

Coords: 22°21'50.69"N, 81°59'12.92"E -- 16°17'20.57"N, 87°36'23.56"E

@HeroProp

"just looking for some die-hard fans of the film."

"wanted to hit the real fans with these."

Ooooh >_< , you're very good at this HeroProp !

"Cheers"

And a British accent to boot!? I do believe you could charm a person into sticking his face right down next to a facehugger egg.

Too bad that Fox and Ridley again dont offer us an extended cut with those 18 minutes. I'm not sure whether i buy this movie on DVD / blue ray during release but rather wait until the retail price drops.