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It is kind of hard to see that imagine so i cant really make it out, as for the post well its interesting, and we have to wonder what route they are taking the whole Black Goo and even if we dont see it again, i wonder if they have finally figured out a Set of Rules to what it does.
It seems the Novels explanation is a tad confusing and the thing with the Black Goo is its always been open to interpretation and all along i had been drawn to it being ONE certain thing and DOES a certain thing... and when i first read Jon Spaights Alien Engineers it pretty much matched 95% of what i had thought about how and what this Black Goo was.
Overtime FOX had changed elements of how we are to interpret the Black Goo... its now more of a Virus that seems to have One Objective and that is to Procreate this in a similar way to a Virus (sorry could not think of the word that describes this)
So i dont really know how to comment on which way they are taking it if this is the case, if this is so then Ultimately it would make little sense for a Queen... and more sense that the Life Cycle leads to someway to create more of the Pathogen... so the Xenomorph dies and breaks down into a Virus.. or it Evolves into a Egg to start the process again.
I always saw the Neomorph infection as being from a Urn that was not active in the Cargo Hold that then had spilled over and infected the Water Stream the Juggernaught had crashed into.
This stream would eventually cause Moss and Mold to grow on the Juggernaught and by the side of the stream and this Mold then either gets evolved by the Black Goo or some other Fungi grow from the Mold and this in turn is infected with the Black Goo.
The Black Goo Xeno-strain Pathogen if you would then uses the Mutated Fungus Spores Motes to pass on the infection.
David is the true monster... :)
RZA Well, I would say it is not "alien" enough. I think in the original movie from 1979 there were many things apart from the titular monster that were "alien", like the planet, even the Nostromo was eerie. "Prometheus" was mysterious, even though it ultimately failed to deliver on its promise. Covenant lacks the "awe" factor to me; the plot is perfunctory, and it made the Alien universe shrink.
VivisectedEngineer and Lawrence of Arabia - Your comments suggest that you are very interesting persons. :D
@Joylitt
What about AC for you makes it hurt to watch?
Genuinely asking. I've seen it 4 times and wish more people had enjoyed it like I have.
Thoughts_Dreams I think it would be more interesting to explore the engineers 's world in ruins, like visiting Pompeii, eventually to find a couple of engineers in the cryosleep, like in Prometheus. To find their way of creating the xenos, where the pathogen comes from. I would prefer to see the engineer 's world without engineers. I don't know, it doesn't seem ok to see a lot of engineers playing the flute or else.
If there will be a war of the worlds would be good to be briefly presented, all engineers wiped out except one who will crash his ship on LV_426. Better to learn about the engineers' ways than to see too much of them in person.
@RZA
You will find the book is as addictive as the movie! ...But I won't discourage you from going to the movie a 5th time... I want AC to get all the support it can, so that we get our sequel, lol!
"I love that the book pretty much details all things we were wondering about, but not having it in the movie was a big mistake. "
Yes! From what I understand the book is based on the original script. It seems like a huge amount of creative effort was scrapped and didn't make it into the final cut.
You ever read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? It's a little like Ford's entire entry being reduced to "Mostly Harmless". Lol.
But, we can do our part, by finding out all the stuff that didn't make it in and appreciating it.
What I find really amusing are all the people I've seen on here and elsewhere really give an opinion about how they feel about AC and all the negatives.... But then in another post they'll say "haven't seen the film yet..."
What!!?! LMFAO!!
Lawrence of Arabia With all due respect, I think Ridley Scott would be better off if he made just one more good original sci fi movie instead of sequels and prequels. Covenant is not worthy of him. And I wish I could pull the trick of"not minding that it hurts", but watching Covenant hurts me and how!
@Gavin
Oh I despise those "How Prometheus should have ended" videos.
Yes, Prometheus had its flaws. Not enough to warrant the hate it gets I feel.
People should put their money where their mouth is and go make the films they want to see...
Everyone's a director these days lol
I would go see it a third time, but it's finished its run here. Can't wait for the Blu Ray so I can watch it on the big screen at home.
Yes, tragically Oram's faith and optimism DID NOT pay off for him, in the cold vacuum of space...
Have you read the novelization? I found Oram's faith and final sentiments expressed in the novel even more intriguing. I tried to start a thread about it a while back, but it never took off.
From the book :"'In the dream I met our Lord, our Creator. And he was so kind and forgiving, like when I was a kid.' David pursed his lips and looked thoughtful. 'You don't believe that anymore?' Oram made an effort to shrug. One shoulder barely moved. 'I guess we all grow up.'"
(Then Foster's elegant descriptions of chestburster gore ensue)
I'm not a Christian (but even in my belief system, a person's thoughts at the time of death are significant) so I do not know what constitutes blasphemy in the Christian doctrine. I wondered how a person of Oram's faith would have regarded his final words and their affect on his afterlife.
Either way, it struck me as sort of significant!
@AdamPD
Those are all possibilities. When David said, "If not controlled, a single application is quite capable of rendering an entire world uninhabitable", I took the "If not controlled" part to mean the Engineers did have a method counteract the pathogen whenever desired. So David if understood that, he possibly limited the spread of the original virus bombing to keep it from completely wiping out the population. In the beginning, anyway.
When they were marketing Prometheus back in 2011/2012 they stated that it was a prequel to Alien. As such many general audiences that didn't spend their days on forums such as these assumed that Prometheus would tie directly into Alien. What Scott, Fox, and the marketing should have said was that Prometheus is to Alien what the Phantom Menace is to "A New Hope" - A preceding chapter but not the one that will tie directly into Alien. Had they done that many of these "how Prometheus should've ended" YouTube videos wouldn't have surfaced.
And while the Star Wars prequels to generate a lot of hatred they do achieve what they ultimately set out to do (other than making money), which is to flesh out the character of Anakin Skywalker and the circumstances that led to his fall from grace and the Sith's rise to power.
What Ridley is doing is the same, he is fleshing out the Xenomorph with a grander mythology. Unfortunately, the way he has done it thus far has led many fans astray, while infuriating others.
@Michelle Johnson - "Where I take issue with the thread starter is that an awful lot of questions were left unanswered which were set up in Prometheus."
The thread is about what the four forms of the pathogen do, based on what was said about them and what they were shown to do in AC and Prom. Your questions don't seem to be about the subject of the thread, so I don't know what you are taking issue with me about?
TBH I would say both had a vision it's just Lucas had the power to do what he wanted, and Ridley had to cave to the studio. Announcing an Alien prequel trilogy was a little hamfisted to me, one movie would have done it, but it's clear from what he originally said and what we got that his original prequel trilogy was going to be much different than what we have, and it's hard to judge it now that we'll never see what could have been
I would take your opinion more seriously if you didn't sound so condescending. Cuz apparently since those who enjoyed Covenant and found it very interesting and wants to know more are just a mindless sheep who eats whatever garbage that's thrown their way. Because you feel indifferent. I'm not down for a Blade Runner crossover but if done right isn't necessarily bad, if that's the topic you are wanting to engage in. I don't see anything wrong with what Ridley's saying, Alien kick started his career and he only wants to nurture its potential and make it bigger. Sounds like he cares a lot for the franchise.
@VivisectedEngineer
I have it!! Just haven't made time to read it yet. Too busy pontificating on my own theories as well as reading what we all have to say on here and across the webs.
Maybe I'll skip the 5th viewing and read the book then get the Digibook Bkuray! LOL
If anything i'll give the opening a read. It imo sets up the whole universe.
I love that the book pretty much details all things we were wondering about, but not having it in the movie was a big mistake.
Im Durp Exactly. They don't have many similarities. Just the business model. It's just Ridley sounds crazy thesedays, and I really resent those who blindly encourage that craziness. All those statements about making several Alien prequels (when Covenant is so flimsy it seems they struggled to come up with any ideas at all) And I am very sad about it, because he is one of my favorite directors ever, he shouldn't be trying so hard to tarnish his legacy.
Oram felt it was God's doing that made him Captain and it was same faith that guided him to Planet 4. It's a shame he lives in such a nihilistic world.
That scene with Karine and Ledward was so powerful. She probably figured him throwing up on her and Ferris locking her in that there was no point for worrying about being infected since she was already being treated as such.
David is worse than Satan, and that's a good thing. He's such an interesting character even in Prometheus, you feel for him for being cast by humans as nothing more than a tool when he is much more than that. Fassbender knocks it out of the park.
"Idle hands are the Devil's workshop"
Too true! Good thing David kept himself busy!
Yes, definitely. They seem very advanced in genetic Engineering technology, so they have been able to acquire a lot of power! Earth and Humanity may just be someone's creative pet-project one of them made while messing around then intended to scrap!
The title is definitely condescending but the actual topic has little to do with it, mostly focusing on an Alien Bladerunner crossover than the similarities, if any, the Alien and Star Wars prequels have.
Very true on all counts! You've got to feel pretty bad for Oram, he gets his first command and everything goes completely to pot in the absolute worst way imaginable!
Karine hugging Ledward was super believable to me. My sister was all "Why would you hug someone with a probably contagious alien disease??" I was like "Because he was suffering and she couldn't do anything else to comfort him?" Very believable and heartbreaking! Well written!
True story, the first time I saw the movie, I was in the bathroom during the David/Walter fight scene. As a result, I completely did not see the twist coming. I 100% believed that was Walter, so, I was as surprised as Daniels, lol.
Excellent find @VivisectedEngineer ! From what I gather from what has been deciphered, the Engineers had unlocked some sort of biotechnology that allowed them to experiment on themselves via their environment in an attempt to attain godhood. At least, that is what I gleaned from the deciphered texts. It also seems like the Planet 4 organisms were more powerful than their Earth counterparts. More evolved to survive and superior genetically.
Lawrence of Arabia - Ha! Nonsense and provocative topic, it is impossible to react with written words. :)
Indeed. Great find @VivisectedEngineer ! From what I gather, after pouring over this (what there is), the Engineers were in the process of attempting, by way of experimentation on their environment and themselves via biotechnology, to evolve themselves to a state of Godhood.
Thanks for bringing this up, from what I've read so far from your link it's very insightful. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop :)
Captain Oram's death was so brutal, I felt for the guy. "What do you believe in David?" "Creation." *gore intensifies* XD
The Medbay scene was so tense and heart breaking, I felt for Ledward having to have a creature burst out your back like that after your health deteriorates so quickly. When Karine hugged him I felt her pain too.
The ending was the greatest, yeah if you pay attention you could see the twist but I think that was intentional, but the fact the bad guy WON. That was so dark and yeah, he's got all these play things now. >:-) Enter the gates of Valhalla!
Wellp..my computer froke out and posted this twice for some reason... now I can't figure out how to delete one of them. :(
I was hoping this would be the case.
Funny... I remember vividly all the crying and whining about how there were "No Aliens!" in Prometheus and that was also another reason why it didn't resonate well with many.
Point? I was trying to introduce my friend to AC but said he should watch Prometheus first since its a continuation of the story. We looked at a trailer and all he said was, no Aliens? Looks wack!
So, sadly there was a large group of people who just wanted Alien action and gore...
Now we get AC and amazingly there are just as many people who complained at Prometheus that were now complaining that really wanted more of the thought provoking elements Prometheus introduced, more of Shaw and her journey for answers.
Us fans can be something else I swear...
The first 15 minutes was pretty good at establishing the characters.
The backburster scene
David "reveal" scene, it wasn't a twist, everyone expected it, but it's still pretty dark.
@RZA
You MUST read the book! The opening scene between Weyland and David was very profound in the movie, but EVEN MORE SO in the book!
The conversation between synthetic and industrialist is longer and more in depth, plus, Alan Dean Foster lets you see into the characters heads a little more.
One thing that really stood out to me about the movie version of that scene was when Weyland asked David "What do you see?", David completely ignored the sprawling nature scene that was directly in front of him.
Instead, he went on to describe the painting, the piano, the sculpture, the designer chair.
I felt that this was a big clue baout David - he doesn't care one whit about nature, he only cares for creation.
@VivisectedEngineer
I tend to watch movies with 3 eyes ;)
Each time taking in something new. I hadn't noticed Oram's tongue in the burster scene, but did notice the twitching. I'll look for it this week. LOL
Favorite part of that scene though is the music. The feels I get when that music comes on as the Zenomorph makes his introduction.
This movie I noticed that there were many instances of facial expressions and nuances that for me told me that it meant something...
From Weylands reaction to David's "may I ask you a question, father" .... To, Walters facial expressions and reactions once they land on the planet. Something feels off about it. Like he knows something.
I have written a VERY long rant about the opening scene with David and Weyland. I may post it, not sure if people will want to read all of it and join in the discussion though. Haha But the opening scene is one of the most important in my opinion.
I think TOO much when it comes to these fictional universes!
Good topic!
For me my favorite scenes are:
1. When Daniels finds the sketches and is all "What did you do to her?" and David is all "Exactly what I'm going to do to you." I also liked how she sounded so sad when David said Walter had "left this vale of tears", because she actually has feelings for Walter.
2. Captain Oram's death is actually a pretty amazing scene. Like, Captain Oram literally sticks his tongue way out, and is convulsing violently on the ground for like a full minute, while David fawns over the baby xeno. Like, re-watch that scene and just focus on Oram, it's pretty awesome (I mean, from a horror movie stand point!)
3. The scene where Karine is trapped in the med-bay with Ledward and the backburster is pretty intense. "Ferris you f***!"
4. LOVE the scene at the end where everything seems so nice and happy-endy, then Daniels realizes it's David and not Walter.
(It reminds of the time I went for minor surgery but started having a panic attack at the last moment, and they put me under anesthetic while I was literally hyperventilating.)
5. I'm also a big fan of the scene a few seconds after, when David plays his favorite jam and then goes to inspect his highly expendable new toys - the 2,000 peacefully sleeping colonists of the Covenant. >:-)
Arrgh! Make me mad i missed seeing it for a 5th time.
Dumb.
Come on 4K blu-ray!
@Vivisected... I agree with you. I would've LOVED to have seen that scene in Prometheus, as would pretty much every complainer that griped about Prometheus' lack of "xenoness"...
I'm with everyone in regards to the 5 year gap, please 1-2 years.
I hope Ridley sticks to his guns with his vision and hopefully Fox will back him equally. You gotta spend money to make money guys!
