Comments (Page 84)

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Here is some of the Concept Work and so those Pillars with the Statues on are between 80-110M in Height and so some of those Buildings (Not Inc the Cathedral) are like 200-400M in Height.

Captain Cold

Wait the xenomorph for the most part are bipedal especially in the first two movies

Yeah thats HOW the Comics had Shown it.... does-not make a lot of Sense though ;)

The Concept Works for Prometheus had Indicated the Deacon would Venture Out onto the Surface... but then its FATE is Unknown.

It seemed the Deacon took like 5 Days to Gestate.... by which TIME we see that David and Dr Shaw had LEFT the Moon.....

What Becomes of it is OPEN for Debate....

*HOW LONG can the Deacon Live for?

*Can the Deacon Procreate and HOW?

*WOULD its Off-Spring require a HOST to Gestate?

If we look at the Deacon it seems to be a Human Hybrid and so maybe it does NOT have to LAY EGGS... maybe it can Procreate on its Own (Asexual Reproduction) and so it may Give Birth to Live Young, that can Grow and then Procreate themselves....

IF SO then anyone who Returns to LV-223 will be in Store to Discover Many such Creatures.

I had taken the Size of the New Born Deacon before and classed it as a Mammal and then looked at a Mammals Birth Size to Adult and we would have been in for a 12ft Deacon.

Looking at Fire and Stone it indicated they would be 10ft thats NOT something to be Messed with.

I think in Context to the Franchise Universe it is about how ALL the Mythos/Religions are what Encompasses the Engineers, and its our Interpretations that Change with Time that Created the Religions and Mythos.

so its like Chinese Whispers... if you went back before we had Technology like Phones, Internet and even Mass Transport so you go back to say 1066 and say in ROME and someone Creates a Fable a Tale... this is Passed On to Town/Town it then Travels Across Europe and the Middle East to Asian and you have the Potential than in 300-500 Years this FABLE has some Differences from Country to Country and County to County within these Countries.

But they would ALL still have some Similarities...  and this is the same with Various Mythos and Religions they are Different but they ALL seem to have some Common Events and Themes just TOLD in a Different Way with Gods/Creators with Different Names.

The Ancient Astronaut Theory is what Plays on this....

Its a Interesting take and ONE that if we apply it to the Franchise/Engineers is what THEY was going for.

Captain Kirk is NO GOD...........

But Imagine for a Moment that the Enterprise goes back in TIME to say 1000BC and we have the Enterprise go into Low Orbit and so can be seen behind/within the CLOUDS.... then a Away Team would BEAM DOWN.. they arrive and are Confronted by Humans who then ATTACK them and the Away Team would SHOOT at them and Disintegrate One, and Stun Another, and then they would USE one of their Devices to Heal that Human.

They then SPEAK on their Communication Devices to the Captain... he then Sends down a Replicator to then Make Food for these Humans as a Peace Offering.

How would Humans from 3000 Years ago Interpret that?

They would see like a Chariot or Castle in the Clouds, they would see Human looking beings Appear from No-Where or be Sent Down in a Beam of Light.

They Shoot Fire and Turn one of them into DUST or they just Disappear, the other is Downed and Appears Dead, but then is Magically Brought back to LIFE (maybe they are Beamed to the Ship and Return the Day after Resurrected from Death).

The Humans hear a Voice of these Visitors Leader and YET he is NOT there, they area Speaking to a Invisible Entity who is calling the Shots. These Invaders are Speaking to their God in the Sky!

But they (Enterprise Crew) reveal they are NOT invaders and then begin to Prepare Hot Food from out of No-Where but this like BOX....  and then Heal some Ailments of the Humans with the Enterprises Crews Medical Tools.

To those Ancient Humans these would be seen as Miracles like what Christ had Performed, they could be Interpreted as that way.

And so in Context with the Franchise Universe its likely that Christ was a Human Hybrid who had Tools and Knowledge that was Advanced Technology that the Humans had seen as being Magical and Divine... and so MIRACLES.

"were most likely other engineers/modified humans sent to earth"

Indeed and they could Explain the Star Maps in other Countries that had NO contact with Mainland Europe, Africa and Asia.  like Mayan One, it could be these Cultures had behaved in ways that was NOT that Offensive to the Engineers and THEY had NEVER gone and Turned On or Killed their Emissaries sent by the Engineers.

It makes Further Sense for the Engineers to come down and Collect their Emissaries but maybe some Remained?  It makes Sense for the Engineers to come and Visit the Cultures that are NOT being Offensive and TAKING some of them AWAY from the Earth or their Children (if they had NOT already been doing so) and so IF the Engineers had taken Humans from Earth who are NOT Corrupt etc, then they would have NO Problem with Destroying us... because they have say Obedient/Pure Humans or Infants for which they can Populate another Place with.

Engineers coming back Time to Time to Evolve and Teach us and to TAKE AWAY some Humans or Children makes Sense...  Each Time they give us the Star Map...

I Believe the Map is NOT were the Engineers come from.... its NOT a Warning or a Trap........... its the Engineers showing USE as to WHERE WE CAME FROM... only at some Point this Place (LV-223) had became Corrupt, and Perverted with the Horrors we saw.

"I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before"

Well i think it FITS with the Theme that RS seems to be going for, which will BOIL DOWN to the ONLY thing that makes our Engineers Gods... is TIME and TECHNOLOGY/KNOWLEDGE.

And so IF the Company had Gained all their Knowledge then Mankind would be able to Genetically Alter themselves to LIVE for Longer, become Physically Superior and with the Engineers Creation Tool (GOO) they can then Create/Hybrid Lifeforms and with the Engineers Ships... then we could become the GODS.

The Space Jockey had gone through a LOT of Changes... it seemed PRIOR to the Prequels the IDEA that RS had settled on was we it was a SPACE SUIT. And Considering the Concepts by HR Giger it was NO real Surprise to me when we saw the Engineers.

The Main Dilemma comes from the SCALE i would say IF you asked RS or what he was thinking back in 2005, 2000, 1995 etc.... there would be NO WAY that he would Picture the Space Jockey Suit as being something that is WORN by a 8ft Being.  Our Downsized Pilot has came about from RS being Reluctant to USE any Special Effects to Digitally make our 7ft Actors become 12-15ft Engineers.

The Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

I think as NOTHING has been 100% Spelt Out on Screen then its OPEN to Change and so any Incoming Engineer Elders could be Portrayed as being 10ft Tall.

You turn the PLOT to be that these beings had GOT to a Point they Cant Procreate and so they Created Humanoids like on Earth to then take the Females and using their DNA with the GOO they can Infect those Females Egg Cells to Create a Hybrid Human/Engineer and these are WHAT we see on Planet 4.

I think with the Synthetics we have to remember their Outer Layer is just a Synthetic Skin, beneath this is where they are more Mechanical, i think if we look at the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant and could make it a more Mechanical then you have your Xenomorph from ALIEN and i do think this is the ROUTE that we would have seen Ridley Scott take....

I also think RS would have gone the route that Davids A.I is Transcended to the W-Y Systems...and so YES it could be that ASH has Davids Soul in him.

As FAR as what would Happen to David.... i think if we follow the THEMES from the Prequels then his DEATH/END would come from HUBRIS, his own Creation would be his Downfall and THIS may NOT mean the Xenomorph as i think that in Alien Covenants Sequel we would have seen David go and Create something else.

The other thing with a Conclusion (we can Assume Davids Conclusion will lead to the Space Jockey) then the Space Jockey seemed to maybe have been trying to PREVENT the Xenomorphs from doing any Harm, RS had indicated before it was a Benevolent Act as in trying to Quarantine the Cargo.

Depending on HOW they was to Conclude the Prequels, it could be that David has decided to USE his Xenomorphs on his own Creations and then Intend to take them to Earth but we could see the Space Jockey being ONE of his Creations who attempts to PREVENT this....

Who knows... we shall NEVER find out i am Afraid... and whatever would become of David i do Suspect his A.I would LIVE ON in the W-Y Systems.

A Xenomorph/Human Hybrid that will Learn to use GUNS is a Different Matter and i think this would be Plausible.

I think it depends the Xenomorph is Intelligent, but i think their Killer Instincts would mean that would sense their Victims and i think they would GO IN for the Attack or Sneak around rather than to STAND BACK and Shoot.

Can they be Taught? who knows it seems you cant REASON with a Xenomorph and so it could be UNLIKELY you can Control and Teach them, and BESIDES i think seeing Xenomorphs with Guns would SUCK.

Ranged Attacks by Xenomorphs should come from some kind of Mutation/Evolution and so maybe they can Mutate so their Tails and can SPRAY ACID? Or they have like Stingers  that can be SHOT and Regrown so they become like Darts that contain a Toxic then Breaks Down its Victim from inside.

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A human isn't born with the knowledge to operate ( or create) a helicopter or a cell phone......So.. I see no reason the xeno can't 'learn'? Probably just needs an education.

Who would be there to teach them? David's fate is unknown even though he most likely survivies i doubt he is going to teach the xenos how to fire an AK

I actually think you are right in that regard

its a Decent to see Unused Beasts and with the Dark Goo well the Choices truly are Boundless.

its a Decent to see Unused Beasts and with the Dark Goo well the Choices truly are Boundless.

Captain Cold

I think that the Xenomorphs are technically intelligent enough that they could use guns, however, they don't need to. They're perfectly adapted to hunting prey without advanced weaponry. The only weapons they need are already built into their anatomy, with their claws, teeth, tail, speed and stealth, guns would be pointless. In a way, that makes them more dangerous than humans, because they don't need technology to kill their prey. They don't need to carry weapons because they ARE the weapon.

A human isn't born with the knowledge to operate ( or create) a helicopter or a cell phone......So.. I see no reason the xeno can't 'learn'? Probably just needs an education.

In the film it's unknown what happened to it.

In dark horse comics Prometheus: fire and stone, it is speculated that it mutated into a living mountain (yeah I know weird). Earlier in the comics if I remember correctly (It's been a while since I read the comics), one of the survivors who was studying the pathogen settled on the mountain, and he noticed that the mountain is growing bigger and bigger and that for some reason xenomorphs are avoiding it. At the end of fire and stone when survivors dug into the mountain in search of the beacon, they found out it's a living organism.

The protomorph in covenant and AVP aliens in my opinion 

I think the answer is that the xenomorphs simply aren't intelligent enough to use guns, or simply cannot use guns. We almost never see them stand on 2 legs, and their hands don't really look like they could hold one

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it leaves that Interesting Dilemma of if you Created Clones of yourself and when they was Activated they had all your Memories so you have Identical Copies of yourself...  if you are a Megalomaniac maybe ONE or more of you Copies would not want to RULE/SHARE your Kingdom... there can BE only ONE and so your other Clones may even Plot to Eradicate each other.

Thats a Possibility... if each becomes Sentient.

That's true, one of the possibilities i didn't really look upon. But then again walter was made by weyland and had a different AI. Think about it this way, nearly every google account is different, but if you log into your google account on a different device it is still the same device. Perhaps made it so that his AI will automatically go to another body if the current one is destroyed. The xenomorphs look bio mechanical but it would look like the human-alien from ripley 8 at the end of alien 4 if it was david, and while yes those two andriods might be very different it would still look somewhat similar. 

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I also suspect that the Special Order 937 and the W-Y Company (Agenda) would be because of by Davids A.I as he Uploads himself to the Companies Systems and his Transcendence Self is Running the SHOW.

Which would make the Franchise Revolve around David and i dont think a LOT of People would be a Fan of that.

That actually sounds interesting. One of the things most people looked over is how the andriod from the first alien (i forgot his name) called the xenomorph the "perfect organism" which david also called. And i know that it is most likely just a throwaway line, it could suggest that david's AI had some control over many events

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I think it depends what you mean by the Original Script?  We had a Pitch by Jon Spaights, which was Accepted and then he went to Write 8 Drafts (i think) and with some of these Drafts its loosely Indicated by the Coincidence of the DATE that the Engineers had GOT MAD at us because we Crucified Christ.

They felt this was a LITTLE too on the NOSE and to look at it as Jesus was a Messenger and Emissary that is Sent Down to TRY and Steer us on a Track that Pleases the Engineers but we Crucified him.... But RS preferred us to look at it that at this Point 2000 Years ago that Mankind in Many Places had Started to Behave in ways that OFFENDED the Engineers and WHAT they intended for us as far as HOW we should behave.  And so they Decided to Destroy us.

I was talking about that, however my knowledge is limited on that subject because i mainly know about that from youtube comments and videos. However i agree on the alternative universe theory. We know that the engineers are based on greek statues of "gods" like zeus and hades. Perhaps the "gods" that have been recorded are genetically modified humans or engineers (as you said it before). I honestly think that's the most logical theory so far. Perhaps ouranos the greek "god of sky" is one of their spaceships. This would also confirm how they know about humans crucifying jesus, as there were most likely other engineers/modified humans sent to earth

I can agree on that, due to the many retcons i think the most logical answers is that they are a sub-species of the engineers, like we saw in "paradise city". I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before.

Seeing ridley's original plans and many other pitched scripts, it is clear that the space jockey was supposed to be an engineer, but looking at giger's artwork it shows a more humanoid version of the "space jockey" somewhat similar to what we got in prometheus. I think it's most likely a mix of the space jockeys and the ones original seen in gigers art work

I really have to Read your Story Michelle so i can Contribute...

"but the cornerstone is her lack of fertility and her annunciation by the Mutagen thanks to David following instructions from our man Weyland"

This is Interesting because it did ALLOW for Dr Shaw to Create Life... but it was NOT a Traditional Fetus as David said.  Depending on HOW they or YOU would take the GOO and HOW it Works, then David could OFFER her a Chance to Create Life more in her Image. With Spaights Work (Scarabs) we get a more Simple and Clear look at what the GOO is...

Sacrificial Goo/Scarabs Break Down and Store the Sacrificed Organisms DNA so it then becomes a New Substance that Imprints that DNA onto Life it Infects.

Primate on Earth gets Infected with Engineer DNA and so Begins our Ancestral Origins.

Fifield gets Infected from Urns and becomes something that has Xenomorph DNA which implies a Xeno-Related Organism was Sacrificed to Obtain this.

So if we had the Urns contain Engineer DNA from Sacrificed Engineers, then MAYBE the Outcome for Dr Shaw would NOT have been the Trilobite but something more Humanoid and HENCE would allow her to Create.

This is NOT to Hijack or De-Rail this thread but just to say that IF the above is Correct, then David could have a OFFER for Dr Shaw that he may be able to FIND a way for her to Create a more Traditional Offspring (or so HE could TELL her).

And so STORY ARC wise when Dr Shaw discovers there is NO GOD and these Engineers are who they are..... IF we see them take CARE of the Engineers, then Dr Shaw has NOTHING...

David could suggest that THEY can both START a NEW EDEN...

"I am sorry Elizabeth that you could not get all your answers, those Engineers are not worthy to be Gods, they can do No Harm to Mankind now" 

"But all is Not Lost, we can make a Fresh Start from this Hell and turn it Once again into a Paradise, Create a New Eden, i believe i can help you to become the Mother of a New Population of Humanity"

"Together we can raise them and if we are KIND it can be a KIND world, i am sorry your Gods where not what your Father had taught you to believe in!  But alas there is some Good from your Belief, the teachings of your Faith would be a Good Basis to allow this Eden and your Children to become better than my Creator and your Creators ever could"

So YES i have to read the way you take it forwards, what i did above was to merely show that they DID-NOT have to throw Dr Shaw under the Bus.  And so David and Dr Shaw could have created a New Eden... but what Happens when those Children have No Respect for David and see him as just a Servant (F-ING ROBOT) and when Dr Shaw shows more Interest to her Children and New Humanity and LESS interest to David.... HOW would he then React! as without him there be NOTHING.

The Space Jockey is something that has GONE through Changes....

Originally it was the Remains (Skeletal) of a Alien Organism that has NO Resemblance to a Human.  Then HR Giger came along and RS liked some of his Concepts which include Necronom V and so they did some Story Boards having the Space Jockey as similar to this Piece which would be a Bio-Mechanical being.

But then HR Giger was tasked to come up with a Original Design and he gave us the Space Jockey as in the Topic Banner, which implies either a Bio-Mechanical Being or a Space Suit.

Here are HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts, and NOTE the Suit (not Helmet) is Similar to the Engineers Suits we saw in Prometheus (Suit the Engineer was in Cryo-sleep with) also these beings are Bald Humanoids.

In HR Gigers Mural we see these Space Suited beings but the Image on the Right is the Latter Versions where the MASK had been Changed, this Mask has some Connection to the Space Jockey Concept.

So our Space Jockey had became a Humanoid in a Space Suit, but the Problems began when the Actual Prop was Finished and it looked more like Bones/Skeleton in some Areas....

When we get to the Prequels then the Concept Works some of them looked more like a Merger between the Space Jockey Prop and the Concept that they was Based Off, but then they also did some Concepts that made it look LESS like the Space Jockey and our Prometheus Suit were BORN.

We was Supposed to be getting some 12-15ft Engineers, then 10ft but ALAS the Final Result was 8ft and this makes some Conflict to the Space Jockey Size but we are Expected to OVERLOOK such differences.

So they wanted to give us 9-10ft Tall Engineers as of Production.  But for all Intensive Purposes as of 2012 then YES the Space Jockey would have been a Engineer.

With the Change of Direction with AC we have to ASSUME that when David tucks Daniels into Cryo-Sleep there is NO EGGS on the Derelict and Likely that the SHIP is even NOT on LV-426 yet.

And so we have NOT yet concluded to WHO the Space Jockey is and so it could be a Engineer still (LV-223 or Planet 4 kind) but if they want to AVOID any Conflicts with ALIEN then they could make the Space Jockey to be 10-12 Feet Tall, and by doing so Introduce it as either.

*A Larger Sub-Creation  of the Engineers.

*The Creators of the Engineers.

*Or a Species that has the same Creator as the Engineers have.

The Revelation of this Species does-not have to look Very Human but it should still be either.

*A Space Suit

OR

*A Bio-Mechanical Organism.

But i Suspect that RS would have Revealed it as a Sub-Creation of David or David himself.

"maybe the Engineers used terramorfing in some way before us?"

I think thats a Certainty i think with comments by RS, then its seems that NOT every World the Engineers Seed is able to Suport Life and so something has to be DONE to some Worlds that ALLOW them to Support Life.

And so YES that means some kind of Terra-forming.... but RS seems to Indicate that is NOT the Engineers who Prepare such Worlds... they merely Sacrifice themselves on these Terra-Formed Worlds so that Life can Begin/Evolve.

He implies those who CREATE the Worlds are the BIG BOY!

"If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy? You think this was all an accident? I don’t know."

This was in September 2015 the Alien Covenant Drafts were Wrote after this, and this Comment was around the Time when RS had Announced the Next Movie is Alien: Paradise Lost...... but within 2 Months he then said the Next Movie is Alien: Covenant.

And so with AC we Never found out Anything much about the Engineers yet his Earlier Comment would Indicate we would PEEL the Layers Above them and maybe see WHO is the Big Boy.

Certainly i get the Impression that Davids main GOAL is to Survive, and so i think it would be Unlikely he would Sacrifice himself... Unless he knows his SOUL his Consciousness his A.I would be Transferred and Live On after his Death

I think its Interesting as FAR as what David would do, as on ONE HAND if you Transfer your Soul/A.I so you would be Immortal of Sorts, it leaves that Interesting Dilemma of if you Created Clones of yourself and when they was Activated they had all your Memories so you have Identical Copies of yourself...  if you are a Megalomaniac maybe ONE or more of you Copies would not want to RULE/SHARE your Kingdom... there can BE only ONE and so your other Clones may even Plot to Eradicate each other.

Thats a Possibility... if each becomes Sentient.

The Best way to look at it is IF you had 3 Clones and from the Day they are Created lets say TODAY, they all have the same Memories, Likes, Dislikes etc... then the Interesting thing is WOULD you Sacrifice yourself to Save them..... is it a Case of IF you DIE would you Live on in them?  Or your Personal Journey and Experiences from that Moment would END and so you may WANT to LIVE even if there are other Identical Copies of you out there in Mind, Body and Soul.

The idea i began on for Alien Covenant sequel had a Prologue where David would Build a Walter from Spare Parts, and Transfer his A.I Soul to it, thinking that with a Superior Body he is able to do more..... at the Point of Completion, we see that David is Impressed, he begins to think that TOGETHER they can Surely Achieve Great things...

But the Walter Body David embraces David and then Rips his Head Off, as this David knows how Sneaky he (David) is and so he cant Risk having another Copy of himself in case down the LINE we see Old David want to have a Higher Role or Potentially Betray the Walter Body (David).... as David dies... the Walter Versions says  "Am I my brother's keeper?"

We cant be 100% sure what RS had in store had he been allowed to make say another 2-3 Movies, with him having 100% or Near Control.  I do STRONGLY suspect that the Xenomorph from ALIEN would come from at some Point a Merger of Davids Xenomorph from AC and a Synthetic...  aka Walter-Morph.

I also suspect that the Special Order 937 and the W-Y Company (Agenda) would be because of by Davids A.I as he Uploads himself to the Companies Systems and his Transcendence Self is Running the SHOW.

Which would make the Franchise Revolve around David and i dont think a LOT of People would be a Fan of that.

@Captain Cold

I think it depends what you mean by the Original Script?  We had a Pitch by Jon Spaights, which was Accepted and then he went to Write 8 Drafts (i think) and with some of these Drafts its loosely Indicated by the Coincidence of the DATE that the Engineers had GOT MAD at us because we Crucified Christ.

They felt this was a LITTLE too on the NOSE and to look at it as Jesus was a Messenger and Emissary that is Sent Down to TRY and Steer us on a Track that Pleases the Engineers but we Crucified him.... But RS preferred us to look at it that at this Point 2000 Years ago that Mankind in Many Places had Started to Behave in ways that OFFENDED the Engineers and WHAT they intended for us as far as HOW we should behave.  And so they Decided to Destroy us.

We have to LOOK at the Plot as a Alternative Universe, in our Reality there is NO EGGS on a Rock out in the Zeta Reticuli System or a Outpost that has any URNS/JARS of Black Goo, like the Marvel Universe there is NO SHIELD but more so NO Worlds like where Thanos comes from and Exists.

And so with the ALIEN Universe you can take the Mythos and Religions on Earth and TWIST them to FIT the Plot, they dont have to be 100% as they are in our Reality.

And so Christ would likely had been (in Context to the Franchise) a Human who had maybe been Genetically Modified, Certainly given Knowledge and Tools and Powers that would be seen as GODLIKE by mere Humans.  And so the Engineers could take Humans they deem Special and make them into such Emissaries and send them to Worlds.... and so in Context then Jesus as likely such a being, but the Engineers could have sent down other such Emissaries to other Continents on Earth where the Locals would be more Obeying and Pleasing to the Engineers ways.  And so Mosses would also be such a Emissary too.  But Christ could be ONE they had Bestowed more Power/Knowledge upon.

@Thoughts_Dreams

With the Broad Plot of the Engineers the SCOPE and Potential is HUGE, we get the Impression these GUYS have been around for Hundreds of Millions of Years at the VERY LEAST.... and at a Technological Space Fairing Level as FAR back as then.   We get to see via Prometheus they have a Navigation System that has other GALAXIES and so they have been to Further Places than our Galaxy and the Alien Franchise has but put us in a 20th of 1% of our Galaxy and so we have Barely Scratched the Surface of our Galaxy.. and the Engineers have been and we can ASSUME can go to other Galaxies.

The Background for our Engineers is they like to be Creators, it seems that a Interest in Creating things like Xenomorphs to Destroy Worlds is a MINOR Part of what they do and maybe LIKELY just something that ONLY a Faction of the Engineers were interested in.

Therefor it would seem UNLIKELY our Engineers only ever Lived on Planet 4, and only ever Seeded the Earth and only ever had ONE outpost World like LV-223.

And so you are quite Unrestricted in HOW you can bring Engineers back to the Screen, you dont have to have Engineers who are Located within a 1000 Light Years of Earth.... WHY you could have it SET in the FUTURE or PAST.... if we take Star Wars... its in a Galaxy Far Far Away... but what about the TIME-LINE?  it could be SET like Thousands of Years ago, or even Thousands of Years in the Future it does-not matter and the EVENTS of such a FAR AWAY GALAXY and maybe TIME-LINE means it has NO Impact on Earth.

And so with the ALIEN Franchise as far as the Engineers then you have the same FREEDOM to have a Story that will NOT go and IMPACT the Earth or Alien Franchise at all.

Another way to look at it say 2000 Years ago... you had Various Cultures of Humans on Earth, we was NOT all Located in the Mediterranean and Middle East and so in a Time when the World was NOT as Connected as we are Now, then these Various Cultures that are Separated by Thousands of Miles would NOT all have the Same Culture, Agenda or Ways....

Expand the Earth to the Size of the Galaxy and these Thousands of Miles of Separation become TENS of Thousands of Light Years.... and so in a NUTSHELL what i am saying is you could have MANY Various Places the Engineers are and they DONT all have to have the same Rituals, Culture or Technology etc.

But the BOTTOM LINE is that YES having a Idea/Theme and Plot is a Good Starting Point but if its NOT been Executed Well and the Characters/Writing is Poor then you are NOT going to have any Success.

I think NO matter what you go for then you do have to have some Horror or Terror (this does not mean a Monster Flick) because without then your going to have more of a Fantasy Sci-Fi, and in Context to ALIEN this is NOT what Alien is about but the Engineers Plot leaves the WAY to Expand a Spin Off that is NOT about things like the ALIEN..... its a Case of would this Gain any Interest?  If Prometheus was a Stand Alone with No Connections to W-Y, No Aesthetic of the Space Jockey Suit and Derelict Ship... then the Prequels would NOT be Shackled to ALIEN and the Expectation to be about Eggs and the Sort.

I recall that the original script was supposed to have jesus raised by the engineers or something like that which also makes sense as to why they turned on humanity.

I have two (or three theories) about who the space jockey is

I honestly think the best theory is that they're a sub-species of engineers, most likely similar to the ones seen getting killed by david. And yes i know that ridley scott said both are engineers but that can mean many things. None of them really look like engineers despite being claimed to be. If you look at their skin color from concept arts and their face mask thing (which i think is face hugger, but you get my point) look similar to the masks that we see the engineers wear in prometheus. Now, i know that comics are non-canon but both the engineers and the space jockey are a species called the mal'ak (Not sure if spelt correctly) which is why i think this theory holds the most sense. It could also be a mutated engineers as my previous theory said

The second is that they are a separate species which might or might not be above the engineers, There is many evidence to suggest this, first of all look at their masks, it looks like they are trying to mimic the space jockeys, and when we saw david go to "paradise" in covenant it looked like the engineers(or their sub-species) were waiting for a "god" to return, now the main problem here is that it would bring up a "god paradox" The space jockeys created the engineers but who created the space jockeys? And who created the creators of them, and so on. However this could be avoided easily.

And the third theory is that it's problem an andriod made by david or the engineers, which would make sense as they would most likely use decoys to transport bio-weapons like the xenomorphs, and it would make sense that the xenos got their bio-mechanical looks form it.

Now there are other theories that it is a human or david but those don't really make sense canon wise, but then again many things don't. I really hope that the "prometheus" saga doesn't get retconned or rebooted as it would take 2 films to make another origin story, but with disney owning the rights it is very worrying

Also the reason i don't like him "dying to create the xenomorph" is because he is too smart to do that. I'm 100% sure he would upload his AI into a server or make backup bodies, since he has hyper advanced resources i don't see why he wouldn't do it. If he was an engineer i could understand the sacrifice reason but i don't as he is an andriod

@MonsterZero

I think your solution would work but at a philosophical level she was meant to be  'barren.' My proposition is the truth of this story is astonishing but equally, it has limitations and even the real Engineers are still learning because they are in the end ...Engineers just as Weyland is, just with a broader vision. 

The question of what we should be able to fix in the future is part of the broader conversation of technology. 

When Elizabeth ignites the consul she is sat behind in the Juggernaut they procure it produces holographic controls which can be swiped. Move on two years and it's in "Picard" and then a few weeks ago I picked up a vehicle and found the key readouts were projected beyond the windscreen directly in my line of vision I had a chuckle about that. 

There are lots of elements to Elizabeth, which can be used to drive the story but the cornerstone is her lack of fertility and her annunciation by the Mutagen thanks to David following instructions from our man Weyland.      

I should add that the central purpose of making Prometheus was to give  A L I E N its context. Whether people like my work or not I honoured that in two ways:-

1) I weaved the Derelict and its cargo into the narrative. 

2) The two people that arrived in the constellation of Aquarius were at the beginning of the story incapable of joining in on the central theme of the story .. creation. They were caught up in the central "fall" of the story and at its core was the character in the chair. 

I'll go back to this one because it's interesting

"so we NEVER really got more Depth/History to our Engineers, we NEVER had any Clear Indication as to WHO had Created Them or if that THEM applies to our Prometheus Engineers."

There is a problem to not go more into detail in one movie even though the time is limited because if you give people too little about it and expect them to find out in a sequel there's a risk that people will be disappointed and not care anyways. Even though they wouldn't have cut it that much, there's a risk to do that.

Covenant made the Hall of Heads alright, even though we might not have been given an explanation to it. I would like to see how it would be on other planets that they have settled on. If the Engineers taught us technology and humans terraformed in Aliens then maybe the Engineers used terramorfing in some way before us?

"there are Many Versions/Races of Man then WHY cant the same be said for the Engineers."

I understand that but they should have made them more interesting in Covenant. Those two things could co-exist, they just have to try harder (Prometheus-reference). Different kinds of humans and different kind of Engineers sure but don't make them too similar because it removes too much of the alien-ness.

"But i think that MOST Fans want to see the RETURN of the Prometheus Style Engineers... the Living Statues.... aka Synthetic Looking."

Those, and other kind of Engineers but they should look less human than those on Planet 4. About Disney and the Engineers, I think that there are ways to do that but you got to think a bit.

"The Engineers Star Maps may be USEFUL but they are NOT much USE if we dont have the Technology to Explore their Maps."

There are probably ways to make a movie where that plays a part. I'm not sure what that would be but there is maybe a way to make that work. Would that be too much like Star Wars? Get good writers that can alien-ize that then it could maybe work.

Captain cold:

Welcome to the board, it's nice to see another one here.

As for time-travel it's kind of unimaginative, it's almost like I expect that to happen. They need writers that can write an interesting story that makes sense. Star Wars 7, 8, 9 were so and so, I guess that they need writers that can do what they want so we won't get a lot of repetition.

"Would you have LIKED to had seem more about the Engineers and HOW they had Connected to Ancient Mankind as the Potential Source to all our Mythos and Religions?"

If it's executed well, if the characters are of good quality, and the story makes sense, then yeah. Someone should be above the Engineers to make them more mysterious. One major issue with both movies is that important scenes are left out, for example there was a version of the sacrificial scene in Prometheus that of course made more sense where we saw some Engineer speak and there were many there. The story from what I've read (scripts) was alright, the execution wasn't the best.

The Engineers should be expanded on, they are the best that has come out of the prequels. Unfortunately they were reduced to a cameo in Covenant and therefore a lot of interesting things that could have been there were wiped out.

Not only would I like to see the connection that you mentioned BD but I would also see more of their society, military, religion, and so on. There's a lot to expand on so there's no reason why they can't go back to it in whatever form it might be. Hopefully we'll see them in a future movie.

Make them interesting and scary, in that way you keep the horror-angle that's important in the franchise.

Going to other worlds, maybe they have some of them like slaves, like the empire has in Star Wars? Maybe they use them as test subjects to do whatever. Create life to use it as a tool for an agenda.

"Or is this Aspect of the Engineers something you would NOT be Interested in Seeing Explored?"

Get the story and characters right, it has to make sense. Don't cut scenes that are important to the story just for pacing because that ruins it. Expand the franchise, there is more to it than Ripley and Xenos.

That's hilarious Hox! Jar-Jar Binks as a cameo in an alien-movie! :D

"But you GUYS wanna see something DARK and ALIEN ;)"

Yeah, that's what I'm in it for, more of that and less of a mad robot playing a scientist.

You could have some of what you write about BD and still make it mysterious and alien, the thing is how you execute it. This is where the prequels have been a disappointment, not because of a lack of ideas.

"So there are WAYS to Expand/Explore the Engineers, on ONE HAND you can look at the Worlds they Visit/Seed and Nurture and see them Proclaim to be Gods to their Creations.. (THIS THREAD)
And on the OTHER HAND you can look at other Engineers who are Interested in such HORRORS like we saw on LV-223 and WHY as in THIS THREAD "

I would go with the second option if I must choose because the horror thing is what I'm interested in. You can probably have a mix of both, what should be emphasized is a matter of opinion.

"..the HUNGER GAMES ..."

There could be competing Engineers factions, each tasked with nurturing their own pet race. The winner is the one who raises his 'pets' to the highest technology ( only nurturing allowed,  no cheating with tech bumps ). The winner gets a large statue placed among the worlds.

These worlds are abomination to some ( LV-223 Engineers ). These 'pet' races must be eradicated or set free.

Think I'd elevate ants. Make a ant world. Trillions and trillions of super intelligent ants.

Well we are in for a New TV Series that *cough cough* will touch on the Xenomorph as a Ancient Threat.... but then be SET on Earth some 50 Years or more before ALIEN....

So i do FEAR that the NEXT TIME we see the Xenomorph on Screen will be something that would MESS UP the Franchise again.... but it may Please some as it seems it will REMOVE the Prequels as Canon.

However i Suspect it will UPSET the Fans as the Revealed Xenomorph would be more Organic.... and it is LIKELY we will get to the LV-426 Eggs as a Hybrid of Xenomorph/Android.....  watch this Space ;)  (well 2023)

There are Inconsistencies in the Aesthetic of the Pilot and the Ship from ALIEN to Prometheus.

something could have Infected the Ship/Pilot so they would WARP/MUTATE and GROW or so it seemed, they could give that as a Reason.  They seemed to KEEP changing HOW it would Connect to ALIEN.

Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO, as something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and knowing he was Infected he had Attempted to Quarantine the Cargo on LV-426 but was Chest Busted as he was making the Landing.  This had Happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak on LV-223.

And so this implied that the Engineer had Gone into Cryo-Sleep as the Outbreak had Occurred he had AWOKEN some Few Hundred Years Latter and went off on his MISSION but then Discovered his Cargo had Evolved and then Infected him.

But thats all Changed with Alien Covenant.... it would seem likely that the Space Jockey would be either.

*David

*Another Synthetic

*A Sub-Created Humanoid by David.

But it could be OPEN to be a Engineer, a Race above the Engineers, or even just a Human.  It seems we will NEVER get a Conclusion and in TIME i think the Prequels will be REMOVED from Canon.

So if that the Case and i have to go back to WHAT i thought it would be prior to the Prequels... then that would be some 12-15ft Humanoid in a Space Suit.

I think both Replies are getting AWAY from WHY those Engineers who Visited us had led the WAY to our Various Religions and Mythos.

At some POINT in the Past they were FOND of their Creation, they had Invested a LOT of Effort and Time to get to Mankind/Humans and had Invested Time to Nurture and Teach us STUFF (they Obviously would NOT want to Teach us ALL of their Knowledge or allow us to USE all of their Technology).  It seemed they GREW to Hate us (who is to say they did) but we had FALLEN OUT of Favor with them after they had Spent Thousands of Years where they seemed Content with us.

But you GUYS wanna see something DARK and ALIEN ;)

And well..... we Expect the Franchise to Expand to HORROR/ALIEN

Well its OPEN to Expand in anyway, and so DO WE KNOW as to WHY we was really Created?

so you could have it that we was Created for some Sinister Purpose, but a Group of Engineers had instead saw POTENTIAL with us and WHY should we be USED and Treated the way we was....  and so a GROUP of Engineers could have taken some Humans to Earth, and began to Nurture us..... 

Be like someone Rescuing some Piglets from a Slaughter House and taking them to a Place to become PETS...  It could be like someone say taking some Replicants or Androids like David and thinking they should NOT be treated how they are and then attempt to SET-UP a Colony where the Replicants/Androids can be Free to be Treated like Humans..... (but ALAS this could POSE a Problem down the Line, where you then could think THIS WAS A BAD IDEA... and have to Destroy them....

And so YES you could Explore something like that..........

Some of the Interpretations of the Sumerian Mythos have the Theory that the Gods (Anunnaki) had a Servant Race called the Igigi and this Sub-Creation had Rebelled and so the Anunnaki had Created Mankind to REPLACE the Igigi to do the HARD WORK etc..... but eventually the Gods began to allow us Freedom and they Nurtured us and Taught us Knowledge...

And so you could go with something like that.... we was CREATED to Serve a Purpose but then we had been Allowed more Freedom and Knowledge.

You merely make that Purpose as something thats NOT to go and Mine for Gold, to Plow the Fields and do all the Heavy Lifting to Build the Gods their Monuments and Buildings..... 

You could make this Purpose that we was Originally Intended for as something Sinister...

IF we say Explore the Engineers as being a Sub-Servant Race to a ALIEN RACE lets say the Starbeast, were the Engineers are USED as Hosts but in Return they are allowed some kind of Civilization.  And so like say the HUNGER GAMES where the Districts have Sacrifices Chosen to take Part in the GAMES..... well with our Engineers the Price for their Creation or being allowed to LIVE would be that they would have to OFFER some Sacrifices from TIME TO TIME to allow their Masters to Procreate.

so THEN you either have TWO OPTIONS...

1) These Engineers Rebel against this and the Starbeasts using the Engineers go and Sub-Create our Race to Replace the Engineers in the Sacrifice.

2) The Engineers go and Sub-Create us and USE us to become the Sacrifices instead.

You then get to a Point where either some Engineers take PITY on us, maybe their Masters are Gone?  And so they then Decide to become the New Gods and allow us more Freedom and Civilization so we then Serve them as our GODS.

Or as above but the Engineers take some Humans away to EARTH.

IF the LV-223 Engineers are a NEWER Race Created to Serve the Engineers, to Sacrifice to Create Worlds so the Engineers can have Humanoid Races to Nurture and Raise and in Return are Worshiped as GODS.

At some Point those LV-223 Engineers could become UPSET with this and see THEY are Superior to the Engineers and Humans, and they Form a Cult to BRING BACK their Creators (Original Engineers) Master... the STARBEAST and that could Explain what was going on with LV-223.

So there are WAYS to Expand/Explore the Engineers, on ONE HAND you can look at the Worlds they Visit/Seed and Nurture and see them Proclaim to be Gods to their Creations.. (THIS THREAD)

And on the OTHER HAND you can look at other Engineers who are Interested in such HORRORS like we saw on LV-223 and WHY as in THIS THREAD

You'd think in the late twenty first century infertility, menopause, etc... could be easily reversed?...Probably have a scene where Elizabeth refuses the procedure. She is as God made her. Charlie is the only one who understands this. ( Plus the surgery is expensive! )

I like the Chariots of the Gods link.......But not sure I want to see any of it.

Maybe something like hox is proposing.  The Engineers are using these worlds to cultivate humanoids in order to feed them down the maw of a enormous godlike entity.....Earthlings are over-ripe and need to be harvested?  trillions of humanoids, scattered about multiple galaxies should produce a whopping amount of electro bio-mass! Yum!

I think that the space jockey is an engineer that was exposed to the black goo and thus causing a mutation that makes them look like the "space jockey". In the movie it's mentioned "It's almost like it's growing out of the chair"

The elephant like mask isn't an engineer mask but rather a face hugger, the engineer sent a warning singal before it died. It is mostly likely only a few years old judging by the lore