Comments (Page 86)

"maybe the Engineers used terramorfing in some way before us?"

I think thats a Certainty i think with comments by RS, then its seems that NOT every World the Engineers Seed is able to Suport Life and so something has to be DONE to some Worlds that ALLOW them to Support Life.

And so YES that means some kind of Terra-forming.... but RS seems to Indicate that is NOT the Engineers who Prepare such Worlds... they merely Sacrifice themselves on these Terra-Formed Worlds so that Life can Begin/Evolve.

He implies those who CREATE the Worlds are the BIG BOY!

"If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy? You think this was all an accident? I don’t know."

This was in September 2015 the Alien Covenant Drafts were Wrote after this, and this Comment was around the Time when RS had Announced the Next Movie is Alien: Paradise Lost...... but within 2 Months he then said the Next Movie is Alien: Covenant.

And so with AC we Never found out Anything much about the Engineers yet his Earlier Comment would Indicate we would PEEL the Layers Above them and maybe see WHO is the Big Boy.

Certainly i get the Impression that Davids main GOAL is to Survive, and so i think it would be Unlikely he would Sacrifice himself... Unless he knows his SOUL his Consciousness his A.I would be Transferred and Live On after his Death

I think its Interesting as FAR as what David would do, as on ONE HAND if you Transfer your Soul/A.I so you would be Immortal of Sorts, it leaves that Interesting Dilemma of if you Created Clones of yourself and when they was Activated they had all your Memories so you have Identical Copies of yourself...  if you are a Megalomaniac maybe ONE or more of you Copies would not want to RULE/SHARE your Kingdom... there can BE only ONE and so your other Clones may even Plot to Eradicate each other.

Thats a Possibility... if each becomes Sentient.

The Best way to look at it is IF you had 3 Clones and from the Day they are Created lets say TODAY, they all have the same Memories, Likes, Dislikes etc... then the Interesting thing is WOULD you Sacrifice yourself to Save them..... is it a Case of IF you DIE would you Live on in them?  Or your Personal Journey and Experiences from that Moment would END and so you may WANT to LIVE even if there are other Identical Copies of you out there in Mind, Body and Soul.

The idea i began on for Alien Covenant sequel had a Prologue where David would Build a Walter from Spare Parts, and Transfer his A.I Soul to it, thinking that with a Superior Body he is able to do more..... at the Point of Completion, we see that David is Impressed, he begins to think that TOGETHER they can Surely Achieve Great things...

But the Walter Body David embraces David and then Rips his Head Off, as this David knows how Sneaky he (David) is and so he cant Risk having another Copy of himself in case down the LINE we see Old David want to have a Higher Role or Potentially Betray the Walter Body (David).... as David dies... the Walter Versions says  "Am I my brother's keeper?"

We cant be 100% sure what RS had in store had he been allowed to make say another 2-3 Movies, with him having 100% or Near Control.  I do STRONGLY suspect that the Xenomorph from ALIEN would come from at some Point a Merger of Davids Xenomorph from AC and a Synthetic...  aka Walter-Morph.

I also suspect that the Special Order 937 and the W-Y Company (Agenda) would be because of by Davids A.I as he Uploads himself to the Companies Systems and his Transcendence Self is Running the SHOW.

Which would make the Franchise Revolve around David and i dont think a LOT of People would be a Fan of that.

@Captain Cold

I think it depends what you mean by the Original Script?  We had a Pitch by Jon Spaights, which was Accepted and then he went to Write 8 Drafts (i think) and with some of these Drafts its loosely Indicated by the Coincidence of the DATE that the Engineers had GOT MAD at us because we Crucified Christ.

They felt this was a LITTLE too on the NOSE and to look at it as Jesus was a Messenger and Emissary that is Sent Down to TRY and Steer us on a Track that Pleases the Engineers but we Crucified him.... But RS preferred us to look at it that at this Point 2000 Years ago that Mankind in Many Places had Started to Behave in ways that OFFENDED the Engineers and WHAT they intended for us as far as HOW we should behave.  And so they Decided to Destroy us.

We have to LOOK at the Plot as a Alternative Universe, in our Reality there is NO EGGS on a Rock out in the Zeta Reticuli System or a Outpost that has any URNS/JARS of Black Goo, like the Marvel Universe there is NO SHIELD but more so NO Worlds like where Thanos comes from and Exists.

And so with the ALIEN Universe you can take the Mythos and Religions on Earth and TWIST them to FIT the Plot, they dont have to be 100% as they are in our Reality.

And so Christ would likely had been (in Context to the Franchise) a Human who had maybe been Genetically Modified, Certainly given Knowledge and Tools and Powers that would be seen as GODLIKE by mere Humans.  And so the Engineers could take Humans they deem Special and make them into such Emissaries and send them to Worlds.... and so in Context then Jesus as likely such a being, but the Engineers could have sent down other such Emissaries to other Continents on Earth where the Locals would be more Obeying and Pleasing to the Engineers ways.  And so Mosses would also be such a Emissary too.  But Christ could be ONE they had Bestowed more Power/Knowledge upon.

@Thoughts_Dreams

With the Broad Plot of the Engineers the SCOPE and Potential is HUGE, we get the Impression these GUYS have been around for Hundreds of Millions of Years at the VERY LEAST.... and at a Technological Space Fairing Level as FAR back as then.   We get to see via Prometheus they have a Navigation System that has other GALAXIES and so they have been to Further Places than our Galaxy and the Alien Franchise has but put us in a 20th of 1% of our Galaxy and so we have Barely Scratched the Surface of our Galaxy.. and the Engineers have been and we can ASSUME can go to other Galaxies.

The Background for our Engineers is they like to be Creators, it seems that a Interest in Creating things like Xenomorphs to Destroy Worlds is a MINOR Part of what they do and maybe LIKELY just something that ONLY a Faction of the Engineers were interested in.

Therefor it would seem UNLIKELY our Engineers only ever Lived on Planet 4, and only ever Seeded the Earth and only ever had ONE outpost World like LV-223.

And so you are quite Unrestricted in HOW you can bring Engineers back to the Screen, you dont have to have Engineers who are Located within a 1000 Light Years of Earth.... WHY you could have it SET in the FUTURE or PAST.... if we take Star Wars... its in a Galaxy Far Far Away... but what about the TIME-LINE?  it could be SET like Thousands of Years ago, or even Thousands of Years in the Future it does-not matter and the EVENTS of such a FAR AWAY GALAXY and maybe TIME-LINE means it has NO Impact on Earth.

And so with the ALIEN Franchise as far as the Engineers then you have the same FREEDOM to have a Story that will NOT go and IMPACT the Earth or Alien Franchise at all.

Another way to look at it say 2000 Years ago... you had Various Cultures of Humans on Earth, we was NOT all Located in the Mediterranean and Middle East and so in a Time when the World was NOT as Connected as we are Now, then these Various Cultures that are Separated by Thousands of Miles would NOT all have the Same Culture, Agenda or Ways....

Expand the Earth to the Size of the Galaxy and these Thousands of Miles of Separation become TENS of Thousands of Light Years.... and so in a NUTSHELL what i am saying is you could have MANY Various Places the Engineers are and they DONT all have to have the same Rituals, Culture or Technology etc.

But the BOTTOM LINE is that YES having a Idea/Theme and Plot is a Good Starting Point but if its NOT been Executed Well and the Characters/Writing is Poor then you are NOT going to have any Success.

I think NO matter what you go for then you do have to have some Horror or Terror (this does not mean a Monster Flick) because without then your going to have more of a Fantasy Sci-Fi, and in Context to ALIEN this is NOT what Alien is about but the Engineers Plot leaves the WAY to Expand a Spin Off that is NOT about things like the ALIEN..... its a Case of would this Gain any Interest?  If Prometheus was a Stand Alone with No Connections to W-Y, No Aesthetic of the Space Jockey Suit and Derelict Ship... then the Prequels would NOT be Shackled to ALIEN and the Expectation to be about Eggs and the Sort.

I recall that the original script was supposed to have jesus raised by the engineers or something like that which also makes sense as to why they turned on humanity.

I have two (or three theories) about who the space jockey is

I honestly think the best theory is that they're a sub-species of engineers, most likely similar to the ones seen getting killed by david. And yes i know that ridley scott said both are engineers but that can mean many things. None of them really look like engineers despite being claimed to be. If you look at their skin color from concept arts and their face mask thing (which i think is face hugger, but you get my point) look similar to the masks that we see the engineers wear in prometheus. Now, i know that comics are non-canon but both the engineers and the space jockey are a species called the mal'ak (Not sure if spelt correctly) which is why i think this theory holds the most sense. It could also be a mutated engineers as my previous theory said

The second is that they are a separate species which might or might not be above the engineers, There is many evidence to suggest this, first of all look at their masks, it looks like they are trying to mimic the space jockeys, and when we saw david go to "paradise" in covenant it looked like the engineers(or their sub-species) were waiting for a "god" to return, now the main problem here is that it would bring up a "god paradox" The space jockeys created the engineers but who created the space jockeys? And who created the creators of them, and so on. However this could be avoided easily.

And the third theory is that it's problem an andriod made by david or the engineers, which would make sense as they would most likely use decoys to transport bio-weapons like the xenomorphs, and it would make sense that the xenos got their bio-mechanical looks form it.

Now there are other theories that it is a human or david but those don't really make sense canon wise, but then again many things don't. I really hope that the "prometheus" saga doesn't get retconned or rebooted as it would take 2 films to make another origin story, but with disney owning the rights it is very worrying

Also the reason i don't like him "dying to create the xenomorph" is because he is too smart to do that. I'm 100% sure he would upload his AI into a server or make backup bodies, since he has hyper advanced resources i don't see why he wouldn't do it. If he was an engineer i could understand the sacrifice reason but i don't as he is an andriod

@MonsterZero

I think your solution would work but at a philosophical level she was meant to be  'barren.' My proposition is the truth of this story is astonishing but equally, it has limitations and even the real Engineers are still learning because they are in the end ...Engineers just as Weyland is, just with a broader vision. 

The question of what we should be able to fix in the future is part of the broader conversation of technology. 

When Elizabeth ignites the consul she is sat behind in the Juggernaut they procure it produces holographic controls which can be swiped. Move on two years and it's in "Picard" and then a few weeks ago I picked up a vehicle and found the key readouts were projected beyond the windscreen directly in my line of vision I had a chuckle about that. 

There are lots of elements to Elizabeth, which can be used to drive the story but the cornerstone is her lack of fertility and her annunciation by the Mutagen thanks to David following instructions from our man Weyland.      

I should add that the central purpose of making Prometheus was to give  A L I E N its context. Whether people like my work or not I honoured that in two ways:-

1) I weaved the Derelict and its cargo into the narrative. 

2) The two people that arrived in the constellation of Aquarius were at the beginning of the story incapable of joining in on the central theme of the story .. creation. They were caught up in the central "fall" of the story and at its core was the character in the chair. 

I'll go back to this one because it's interesting

"so we NEVER really got more Depth/History to our Engineers, we NEVER had any Clear Indication as to WHO had Created Them or if that THEM applies to our Prometheus Engineers."

There is a problem to not go more into detail in one movie even though the time is limited because if you give people too little about it and expect them to find out in a sequel there's a risk that people will be disappointed and not care anyways. Even though they wouldn't have cut it that much, there's a risk to do that.

Covenant made the Hall of Heads alright, even though we might not have been given an explanation to it. I would like to see how it would be on other planets that they have settled on. If the Engineers taught us technology and humans terraformed in Aliens then maybe the Engineers used terramorfing in some way before us?

"there are Many Versions/Races of Man then WHY cant the same be said for the Engineers."

I understand that but they should have made them more interesting in Covenant. Those two things could co-exist, they just have to try harder (Prometheus-reference). Different kinds of humans and different kind of Engineers sure but don't make them too similar because it removes too much of the alien-ness.

"But i think that MOST Fans want to see the RETURN of the Prometheus Style Engineers... the Living Statues.... aka Synthetic Looking."

Those, and other kind of Engineers but they should look less human than those on Planet 4. About Disney and the Engineers, I think that there are ways to do that but you got to think a bit.

"The Engineers Star Maps may be USEFUL but they are NOT much USE if we dont have the Technology to Explore their Maps."

There are probably ways to make a movie where that plays a part. I'm not sure what that would be but there is maybe a way to make that work. Would that be too much like Star Wars? Get good writers that can alien-ize that then it could maybe work.

Captain cold:

Welcome to the board, it's nice to see another one here.

As for time-travel it's kind of unimaginative, it's almost like I expect that to happen. They need writers that can write an interesting story that makes sense. Star Wars 7, 8, 9 were so and so, I guess that they need writers that can do what they want so we won't get a lot of repetition.

"Would you have LIKED to had seem more about the Engineers and HOW they had Connected to Ancient Mankind as the Potential Source to all our Mythos and Religions?"

If it's executed well, if the characters are of good quality, and the story makes sense, then yeah. Someone should be above the Engineers to make them more mysterious. One major issue with both movies is that important scenes are left out, for example there was a version of the sacrificial scene in Prometheus that of course made more sense where we saw some Engineer speak and there were many there. The story from what I've read (scripts) was alright, the execution wasn't the best.

The Engineers should be expanded on, they are the best that has come out of the prequels. Unfortunately they were reduced to a cameo in Covenant and therefore a lot of interesting things that could have been there were wiped out.

Not only would I like to see the connection that you mentioned BD but I would also see more of their society, military, religion, and so on. There's a lot to expand on so there's no reason why they can't go back to it in whatever form it might be. Hopefully we'll see them in a future movie.

Make them interesting and scary, in that way you keep the horror-angle that's important in the franchise.

Going to other worlds, maybe they have some of them like slaves, like the empire has in Star Wars? Maybe they use them as test subjects to do whatever. Create life to use it as a tool for an agenda.

"Or is this Aspect of the Engineers something you would NOT be Interested in Seeing Explored?"

Get the story and characters right, it has to make sense. Don't cut scenes that are important to the story just for pacing because that ruins it. Expand the franchise, there is more to it than Ripley and Xenos.

That's hilarious Hox! Jar-Jar Binks as a cameo in an alien-movie! :D

"But you GUYS wanna see something DARK and ALIEN ;)"

Yeah, that's what I'm in it for, more of that and less of a mad robot playing a scientist.

You could have some of what you write about BD and still make it mysterious and alien, the thing is how you execute it. This is where the prequels have been a disappointment, not because of a lack of ideas.

"So there are WAYS to Expand/Explore the Engineers, on ONE HAND you can look at the Worlds they Visit/Seed and Nurture and see them Proclaim to be Gods to their Creations.. (THIS THREAD)
And on the OTHER HAND you can look at other Engineers who are Interested in such HORRORS like we saw on LV-223 and WHY as in THIS THREAD "

I would go with the second option if I must choose because the horror thing is what I'm interested in. You can probably have a mix of both, what should be emphasized is a matter of opinion.

"..the HUNGER GAMES ..."

There could be competing Engineers factions, each tasked with nurturing their own pet race. The winner is the one who raises his 'pets' to the highest technology ( only nurturing allowed,  no cheating with tech bumps ). The winner gets a large statue placed among the worlds.

These worlds are abomination to some ( LV-223 Engineers ). These 'pet' races must be eradicated or set free.

Think I'd elevate ants. Make a ant world. Trillions and trillions of super intelligent ants.

Well we are in for a New TV Series that *cough cough* will touch on the Xenomorph as a Ancient Threat.... but then be SET on Earth some 50 Years or more before ALIEN....

So i do FEAR that the NEXT TIME we see the Xenomorph on Screen will be something that would MESS UP the Franchise again.... but it may Please some as it seems it will REMOVE the Prequels as Canon.

However i Suspect it will UPSET the Fans as the Revealed Xenomorph would be more Organic.... and it is LIKELY we will get to the LV-426 Eggs as a Hybrid of Xenomorph/Android.....  watch this Space ;)  (well 2023)

There are Inconsistencies in the Aesthetic of the Pilot and the Ship from ALIEN to Prometheus.

something could have Infected the Ship/Pilot so they would WARP/MUTATE and GROW or so it seemed, they could give that as a Reason.  They seemed to KEEP changing HOW it would Connect to ALIEN.

Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO, as something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and knowing he was Infected he had Attempted to Quarantine the Cargo on LV-426 but was Chest Busted as he was making the Landing.  This had Happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak on LV-223.

And so this implied that the Engineer had Gone into Cryo-Sleep as the Outbreak had Occurred he had AWOKEN some Few Hundred Years Latter and went off on his MISSION but then Discovered his Cargo had Evolved and then Infected him.

But thats all Changed with Alien Covenant.... it would seem likely that the Space Jockey would be either.

*David

*Another Synthetic

*A Sub-Created Humanoid by David.

But it could be OPEN to be a Engineer, a Race above the Engineers, or even just a Human.  It seems we will NEVER get a Conclusion and in TIME i think the Prequels will be REMOVED from Canon.

So if that the Case and i have to go back to WHAT i thought it would be prior to the Prequels... then that would be some 12-15ft Humanoid in a Space Suit.

I think both Replies are getting AWAY from WHY those Engineers who Visited us had led the WAY to our Various Religions and Mythos.

At some POINT in the Past they were FOND of their Creation, they had Invested a LOT of Effort and Time to get to Mankind/Humans and had Invested Time to Nurture and Teach us STUFF (they Obviously would NOT want to Teach us ALL of their Knowledge or allow us to USE all of their Technology).  It seemed they GREW to Hate us (who is to say they did) but we had FALLEN OUT of Favor with them after they had Spent Thousands of Years where they seemed Content with us.

But you GUYS wanna see something DARK and ALIEN ;)

And well..... we Expect the Franchise to Expand to HORROR/ALIEN

Well its OPEN to Expand in anyway, and so DO WE KNOW as to WHY we was really Created?

so you could have it that we was Created for some Sinister Purpose, but a Group of Engineers had instead saw POTENTIAL with us and WHY should we be USED and Treated the way we was....  and so a GROUP of Engineers could have taken some Humans to Earth, and began to Nurture us..... 

Be like someone Rescuing some Piglets from a Slaughter House and taking them to a Place to become PETS...  It could be like someone say taking some Replicants or Androids like David and thinking they should NOT be treated how they are and then attempt to SET-UP a Colony where the Replicants/Androids can be Free to be Treated like Humans..... (but ALAS this could POSE a Problem down the Line, where you then could think THIS WAS A BAD IDEA... and have to Destroy them....

And so YES you could Explore something like that..........

Some of the Interpretations of the Sumerian Mythos have the Theory that the Gods (Anunnaki) had a Servant Race called the Igigi and this Sub-Creation had Rebelled and so the Anunnaki had Created Mankind to REPLACE the Igigi to do the HARD WORK etc..... but eventually the Gods began to allow us Freedom and they Nurtured us and Taught us Knowledge...

And so you could go with something like that.... we was CREATED to Serve a Purpose but then we had been Allowed more Freedom and Knowledge.

You merely make that Purpose as something thats NOT to go and Mine for Gold, to Plow the Fields and do all the Heavy Lifting to Build the Gods their Monuments and Buildings..... 

You could make this Purpose that we was Originally Intended for as something Sinister...

IF we say Explore the Engineers as being a Sub-Servant Race to a ALIEN RACE lets say the Starbeast, were the Engineers are USED as Hosts but in Return they are allowed some kind of Civilization.  And so like say the HUNGER GAMES where the Districts have Sacrifices Chosen to take Part in the GAMES..... well with our Engineers the Price for their Creation or being allowed to LIVE would be that they would have to OFFER some Sacrifices from TIME TO TIME to allow their Masters to Procreate.

so THEN you either have TWO OPTIONS...

1) These Engineers Rebel against this and the Starbeasts using the Engineers go and Sub-Create our Race to Replace the Engineers in the Sacrifice.

2) The Engineers go and Sub-Create us and USE us to become the Sacrifices instead.

You then get to a Point where either some Engineers take PITY on us, maybe their Masters are Gone?  And so they then Decide to become the New Gods and allow us more Freedom and Civilization so we then Serve them as our GODS.

Or as above but the Engineers take some Humans away to EARTH.

IF the LV-223 Engineers are a NEWER Race Created to Serve the Engineers, to Sacrifice to Create Worlds so the Engineers can have Humanoid Races to Nurture and Raise and in Return are Worshiped as GODS.

At some Point those LV-223 Engineers could become UPSET with this and see THEY are Superior to the Engineers and Humans, and they Form a Cult to BRING BACK their Creators (Original Engineers) Master... the STARBEAST and that could Explain what was going on with LV-223.

So there are WAYS to Expand/Explore the Engineers, on ONE HAND you can look at the Worlds they Visit/Seed and Nurture and see them Proclaim to be Gods to their Creations.. (THIS THREAD)

And on the OTHER HAND you can look at other Engineers who are Interested in such HORRORS like we saw on LV-223 and WHY as in THIS THREAD

You'd think in the late twenty first century infertility, menopause, etc... could be easily reversed?...Probably have a scene where Elizabeth refuses the procedure. She is as God made her. Charlie is the only one who understands this. ( Plus the surgery is expensive! )

I like the Chariots of the Gods link.......But not sure I want to see any of it.

Maybe something like hox is proposing.  The Engineers are using these worlds to cultivate humanoids in order to feed them down the maw of a enormous godlike entity.....Earthlings are over-ripe and need to be harvested?  trillions of humanoids, scattered about multiple galaxies should produce a whopping amount of electro bio-mass! Yum!

I think that the space jockey is an engineer that was exposed to the black goo and thus causing a mutation that makes them look like the "space jockey". In the movie it's mentioned "It's almost like it's growing out of the chair"

The elephant like mask isn't an engineer mask but rather a face hugger, the engineer sent a warning singal before it died. It is mostly likely only a few years old judging by the lore

@BigDave 

> i HOPE we never get any Time-Travel in the Franchise but i SUSPECT that Disney would be OPEN to such a thing.

Same, i am really worried about disney owning alien, since they might mess it up *cough cough* Star wars *cough cough*

I'd love to see that kind of thing explored further, because the Galaxy is vast and may be teeming with all manner of amazing organisms and civilisations, both old and new. I'm not talking about Jabba the Hut or Jar Jar Binks. I'm talking about proper alien stuff that requires real imagination.

Frankly, I'm getting a little bored of movies with humans in space. My ideal movie would be set two hundred million years in the past (one Galactic rotation) featuring Engineers marauding across the cosmos. They'd be "educating" and wiping out worlds with gay abandon. And we'd maybe see it spelled out in black and white that they're all about genocide and are inherently one step up from being racist. And why is this? Well, there's a question. Shaw wanted to know why they hate us so much. So would I!

I suspect they consider themselves to be "pure", and can't tolerate the impure. Perhaps for good reasons. Maybe in the dim and distant past a great evil pervaded the Galaxy and the Engineers fought tooth and nail to eradicate it, perhaps with the help of technology from an even older (and long gone) civilisation.

In this movie there wouldn't be a human in sight.

Of course, that kind of stuff would never be made by Hollywood. Far too way out. But I'd make it if I won the lottery!

> 

We know the Xenomorph can lead to Genetic Memory Transfer we have seen this with Ripley 8, and so we maybe CANT RULE OUT that David would Sacrifice himself to INDEED Create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and that HIS (Davids) SOUL will be Passed onto into the Xenomorphs Consciousness. He would IMMORTALIZE HIMSELF within the Xenomorph.

Hmmm, that's true but i think a better way would be to make him the "King/emperor alien" Which is basically a male queen, but outside the hivemind, it hunts down humans/entities it deems to be a "threat". I think that david being that would make the most sense, as he would be outside the hivemind, and would only target certain things (ie: humans). The reason to why we don't see him could be that he simply was elsewhere

@BigDave, yes I agree. Time Travel would be a terrible idea for the Alien Universe. It's the biggest laziest trope in Science Fiction. I rarely enjoy time travel movies.

That would Explain it HOX!  I guess when you Famous and a Creator as David is then he maybe thinks the Woman would LET HIM do what ever he Pleases?

Hands! off my Jonesey

But on a Serious Note............... i HOPE we never get any Time-Travel in the Franchise but i SUSPECT that Disney would be OPEN to such a thing.

Well i think that is INTERESTING ;)

Certainly you could look at the LV-223 Engineers in this way, if they are Created by some Machine or Process (rather than Born) and for them to be Resurrected would mean they would have to be PASSED ON a SET of Memories/Knowledge.  Because if when they are Created they are a BLANK CANVAS so they have No Knowledge or Memories or Prior Experiences then it would NOT be a Resurrection.... that is UNTIL you Transfer/Program this into them.

So in that CONTEXT then the Engineers would be similar to DAVID, only that they are Organic rather than Synthetic.  I am drawn to that the LV-223 Engineers are a Sub-Created Superior Version that was Created by the other Engineers for a Specific Purpose.

If there ARC is then Similar to Davids, in that they SEE they are Superior to their Creators and begin to ASK to WHY they should Serve and do Mundane or Dangerous Tasks so those other Engineers can Play Happy Hobbits on Planet 4!

This then OPENS UP the Humanity Connection as...

*Are they a Sub-Creation of the LV-223 Engineers as they WANTED to Play God or maybe Create their own Servants?

But we (like them) eventually would NOT behave and Serve our Creator.

*Are they a Creation of the Planet 4 Engineers and those Engineers started to see Humans as Important than the LV-223 Engineers?

So then the LV-223 Engineers became Jealous and wanted to Destroy Mankind or Evolve us into something they could USE to then Overthrow their own Creators.

The Source i had for Prometheus 2 (2014) did describe like Birth Tanks that was like the Sleep Pods in the Matrix, and inside was Humanoids being Grown, which seemed to indicate the Engineers were indeed being Created/Cloned.  This could Explain as to WHY they cannot Procreate.... but being Genetically Similar to Humans they could USE their DNA to Seed/Evolve Life via the Sacrificial Goo.

The Original Idea (2010-2011) seemed to be that the Engineers would LIVE for Many Thousands of Years, but they LOST the ability to Procreate (this Pretty much seemed to be the same in 2012).

But as 2015/2016 came along then the Engineers had Changed, and RS had suggest they LIVE for about 200 Years, and they can Procreate (have Females and Infants) and so.......

IF there is something about the Experiments on LV-223 and the Origin of the Deacon and all those Horrors, and IF this was something the Engineers saw as maybe a WAY to gain some kind of Immortality/Resurrection, or even just a way to Genetically make themselves Superior.

Then that means we have to Question if....

*Are those Engineers on Planet 4 are AWARE of the Horrors/Experiments on LV-223. Or are they Completely in the Dark?

*Had those Engineers on Planet 4 been Aware and Actively Interested in this and Trying to Prolong their Lives but they then ABANDONED it all?

If what RS has said is the WAY they want to go with those Engineers (Planet 4) then they seem Content and Accepting that they are NOT anywhere near IMMORTAL and so they are NOT that Interesting in trying to gain any Immortality and maybe see they have Resurrection from the LIFE that can be Created by their Donation of their DNA (Sacrifice).

I think its OPEN to how they could have Explored it, as FAR as we still dont have all the Answers/Agenda and History of the Engineers.

 "They are a bit like Elizabeth, who also can't reproduce her own kind." 

So pleased you made this connection. It took me a while to get there but this and the fact that the Engineers are so strung up on invasive birthing (the fresco) gave me the link backwards to the Waterfall Engineers and precisely how Elizabeth would react to the mother of all HRT's (see what I did there). 

Yeah, we don't know what the cargo the space jockey was hauling, could have been umbrellas for all we know. Crew of the Nostromo never reached it. Nor did Newt's father. It's one of the reasons I'm okay with David planting the eggs on the LV-426 juggernaut ( if this is / was their intention ). Keeps the cargo and the space jockey a mystery!

Yes, I love the face hugger,  It's not just out to procreate 'little face huggers'. It has a greater purpose.    They are a bit like Elizabeth, who also can't reproduce her own kind.

And to stop the Engineers mass resurrections, someone ( David ?) destroys the bio machine(s)...Making all the Engineers in the galaxy suddenly mortal. 

One of the things that Ridley has said down the years was that no one talked about the guy in the chair. There is an argument that you 'don't go there" but if you do then the other big question is who was the cargo intended for. It's very unfortunate that the story in the early drafts began life with the Ovoids as a general weapon, which is not exactly logical or practical. The creation of a Mutagen was much more pervasive as a broad threat, as an evolutionary tool.

To me, the Face Hugger and its capacity to rape implant, and reproduce 'something' have the most legs in terms of story and horror and provide some kind of philosophical weight rather than merely just be 'cool'. Non-consensual sacrificial creation seemed to link perfectly to the consensual incident at the Waterfall. There is so much in that scene. This is a world of sanctified, consensual sacrifice to pursue creation and somehow we end up with non-consensual sacrifice which the lore indicates creates something else. Joining that up seems to be an obvious thing to do and because the Engineers are a highly primitive ritualistic race gives the chance to blur the lines between Darwin and the Abrahamic religions. 

It would be nice if he could put on a bit of weight, turn a little orange, find a time machine and travel back to Earth in the year 2016 to further his ambitions. That would explain a lot.

I would make his a hero's death.

After loathing humanity for so long.....Ultimately, He becomes their savior.

 "hey we need a monster now." 

I could read a thousand pages of callbacks, echos, investing. Monsters are the filler ( the Deacon from Prometheus showed this woefully ). If they removed the Xeno from Alien:Covenant it would have been a much better movie ( imho ) 

I'd rather read about Charlie missing a flight and Elizabeth stewing over it.  Or Charlie saving Elizabeth from drowning. Their Jeep breaking down in some back water town and Charlie getting in a fight ( a synthetic breaks it up )...Etc...

"The Sacrificial Scene had SHOWN the stuff that Engineer had Drank would Dissolve and Break Down/Apart the Engineer and so he would be DEAD but his DNA would be what would SEED the World/Evolve the Basic Life on said WORLD. "

I always assumed this was symbolic. Sacrifice someone then bomb the living hell out of the planet.

"...Trying to Increase their LIFE SPANS..." 

Who wants to live forever in hell? Sounds like this is the path they were taking. Seems VERY counter productive to a long life! 

I'm going to posit that they are immortal. Each time they die, a wave function collapses at the origin of their birth. This signals a massive bio machine that resurrects them and they trundle back to what they were doing.

Hopefully in a way that is unexpected. To make him the creator of the Xeno and let that be his downfall is too obvious. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if that's what will happen, so they should come up with something better.

You need smart writers to make a good story, as the prequels have shown. Whatever the case may be I hope that they kill him off early in the movie. There are already two that features David a lot and Covenant made him uninteresting, so they should compensate for that. I don't want another movie about an android and his doings.

"but instead disappear and have a post credit scene with the weyland CEO making a message"

They could go with THAT, having David being the ONE who is Running the Company without the Humans being aware is something that i would NOT have Ruled Out.  Maybe the Destruction that we saw on Earth was because of a EVENT like the End of Modern World in the TERMINATOR Franchise.

You have Synthetics, who we have seen can become Sentient, we have it that Synthetics through their own WILL had Created the AUTONS and so with Humans you have 3 SPECIES that could be ALL Fighting for Control of the Earth that had lead to the Armageddon like Scene we saw at the END of Alien Resurrection.

And to reveal David after this as the one who has ORCHESTRATED it all could be something they could Explore... but i just DONT think we would see any Continuation of his Story or a Continuation after AR.

Thanks for the Bump!

I missed this Topic ;)

I think there has to be one of TWO Conclusions to Davids Story.

1) HUBRIS: And so David is KILLED by ONE of his OWN Creations, be that the Xenomorph or another Species he Creates who Rebel/Betray him (maybe USE the Xenomorph on him).

2) Redemption: And so David will Perform a Act that will either Save Humanity (maybe from his Creations) or to Save another Creation of his.

"Prediction - David does in fact end up being the Space Jockey in Alien"

To be Fair i am drawn to this Conclusion also.... or that it would be a Creation of Davids that ENDS UP in that Chair!  Ridley Scott had said the NEXT Installment would NOT be about the Xenomorph, it would be about A.I (RS also sees that A.I does-not have to be Purely Mechanical) and more so about WHAT KIND of a World that David would Create!

This Leads me to THINK that David would Evolve those Human Embryos into a Superior Humanoid Species... which could become his HUBRIS.  However we also cant RULE-OUT that a Synthetic will PLAY a Role in the Xenomorph, as RS has said that the Xenomorph is NOT as Mechanical Yet, it has some Evolving to go before we get to LV-426

We know the Xenomorph can lead to Genetic Memory Transfer we have seen this with Ripley 8, and so we maybe CANT RULE OUT that David would Sacrifice himself to INDEED Create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and that HIS (Davids) SOUL will be Passed onto into the Xenomorphs Consciousness. He would IMMORTALIZE HIMSELF within the Xenomorph.

And so i would NOT go and Rule this out......... so David End could be from either HUBRIS, REDEMPTION or SACRIFICE (to Enable his Master Plan).

The ONLY PROBLEM we have to look at is the SPACE JOCKEY SIGNAL... this seems to be a WARNING, and a Warning ONLY to a Species who is the Same as WHO the Space Jockey will eventually be.

The Purpose of doing this TOPIC was to try and give some Reason for WHY the Engineers had TURNED their Attention to the Horrors of LV-223 and the MURAL rather than to CREATE LIFE like Humans.

I think there are NUMBER of Flaws behind a PLOT where these Engineers had SOLELY Constructed the Outposts on LV-223 to Create a Organism like the Deacon or Xenomorph to USE on Earth against Humans.

Especially IF those Engineers wanted to RECLAIM the Earth back at some point and START AGAIN.

The Sacrificial Scene had SHOWN the stuff that Engineer had Drank would Dissolve and Break Down/Apart the Engineer and so he would be DEAD but his DNA would be what would SEED the World/Evolve the Basic Life on said WORLD.   Well if thats the CASE then Dropping down URNS of this STUFF would be more Effective at Destroying Life on a Planet and then seeing from this NEW LIFE in its IMAGE start to Evolve/Begin.

There are those STAR MAPS on Earth, are they Pointing to LV-223? or are they Indicating say Planet 4 and so Holloway and Dr Shaw had taken the Prometheus to the WRONG PLACE?

If the Maps are pointing towards LV-223 and bare in Mind they have been Shown on Earth for at least 35'000 Years, then we have to ASK as to WHY!

*Where some Engineers trying to WARN us about this Place, but WHY would they WARN about a Place 33'000 Years before the Engineers intended to USE the Black Goo on us?

*Had the Engineers left them as a TRAP so that ONE DAY we would go to LV-223 and get Ourselves into CHAOS/DEATH?  But had they had so more Foresight 33'000 Years prior to when they Intended to BRING DEATH to us that they would leave Clues to LV-223 as a TRAP in case their Plans in Thousands of Years when to POT?

Neither makes much Sense..............

Maybe it was a Fail-Safe just in Case, but then WHY would they INVITE us to the Place, well Leave Clues if this Place would be a HAZARD to us should we EVER go and Discover the Place?

it makes more Sense to me IF we see that LV-223 had some other PURPOSE before some Engineers had began to Dabble/Experiment with the DNA/Genetics of a Organism that the Deacon/Neomorph and Xenomorph can TRACE their Ancestral Roots too.

I also think we have to Wonder was there MORE to these Experiments than to Merely go and Create a KILLING MACHINE?

We have seen W-Y and USM try to Obtain and USE the Xenomorph for its Bio-Weapons Division and FAIL and IF they had Managed to Contain the Organisms, then WHAT is the USE really?

I think trying to Obtain and Experiment with the DNA and Traits would be more Beneficial!  And when we look at Ripley 8 then she could be ULTIMATELY the Ideal Bio-Weapon a Superior Human a SUPER SOLIDER. 

But to then go and Create/Clone many Ripley 8's could give you the Perfect Marine... there is that HUBRIS of them Turning against YOU.  And then you have the Genetic Memory of Ripley, you would want to ERASE/SUPPRESS that.

And so IF the Engineers were thinking of SIMILAR then this makes more Sense about the Horrors/Mural on LV-223.  When looking at what RS has said about the Engineers it seemed that they was MORE interested in Seeding Life on Worlds and Trying to Increase their LIFE SPANS and like Weyland looking for that way to LIVE FOR EVER....

But YES at some point those Engineers became Obsessed/Interested in what they had Began to do on LV-223 Thousands of Years ago (Mural) but i dont think having it that they BEGAN this because they was Pissed Off cus we say KILLED the Space Jesus, and so it was a Act of Revenge... as well DROPPING the Sacrificial Goo would have done the Trick.

I think it would be INTERESTING to explore a Deeper Reason to WHY they would be Involved in such HORRORS and WHEN did this all FIRST BEGIN.

As Purely as a WAY to KILL OFF our Species after we UPSET them 2000+ Years ago, just does-not seem to make Sense as far as to NEED to Create the Deacon etc.

I think it depends on HOW you take the Broader Plot....

*How many Engineer Worlds are there?  Are they in Peace and Harmony with each other, or are some IN or had been in Conflict with each other?

*How many Species have the Engineers Created?  What is the Technological Level of these Species?  Are they or HAVE they been in Conflict with the Engineers?

*Are there other Species/Races in the Galaxy that the Engineers had NOTHING to do with as far as Creation/Evolution?  Have the Engineers had any Conflict with these?

*WHO had Created the Engineers and where are THEY?  And what Relationship did they have with the Engineers, did they have any Conflict with their own Creations? (Engineers)

So YES there is SCOPE for Conflict within the Franchise, as YES just seeing the Engineers going around and Seeding Worlds and Vising their Creations where EVERYTHING is all Happy and everyone is KEEPING IN LINE with the PLAN etc...

All we seem to KNOW is the Engineers (in the PAST) had became UNDONE with their own CREATION/EXPERIMENTS on LV-223, the Horrors they Created could NOT be Controlled and WELL that seemed to be the END of those on LV-223. But we know there are other Engineers in the Galaxy, and well what we are shown is that David has USED the Horrors that BEFELL the Engineers on LV-223, and he had used the Black Goo on Planet 4 to KILL those Engineers and Experimented/Evolved their Horrors to Create a HORROR that could be a THREAT to the Engineers Existence and their Creations (in the FUTURE)

But SURELY that should NOT be all there is to it!  I think its LIMITED if the Engineers only Conflicts and Threats had ONLY came from Humanity getting out of HAND and then the Horrors they Created on LV-223 some Thousands of Years ago.  And their Future Threats coming from Humanity and getting their Hands on the Engineers Technology and Bio-Weapons and from David and the Horrors he has Created.

But EVERYTHING ELSE in the Engineers History etc has been ROSEY!...... Nope i dont BUY that ;)

Ridley Scott referred to the Engineers in Prometheus as Fallen Angels, this implies that either their Brothers are NOT Fallen, or their Creators are NOT Fallen.  And so it implies that those Engineers on LV-223 had been UP-TO something VERY NAUGHTY and against the WILL of the Hierarchy or are USING the Creation Tool/Fire in ways it was either NEVER Permitted or in WAYS that it SHOULD NOT be used.

Can de make a match during this days guys ?

"Getting stuck with 'fallback' Charlie Holloway would be one. Elizabeth's first love is God and Charlie has other ideas..."

There is something of a Rider Haggard character in Elizabeth (daughter living in South Africa with a priest) but also I thought about my daughter. I always told her she would marry an older more serious man because she was never a "chick that hung out with the cool guys," There is an alternative an opposite and Charlie was the opposite. 

Much later there is a conversation between Elizabeth and David about why she was so vulnerable, so many people who do not fit end up being in control and in a bad way, it gives them power and I felt part of Elizabeth temptation was making this shy slightly awkward person who had delusions of destiny ... be provided with ALL the answers and ALL the power.

Your idea of the early meeting appeals to me because I personally like to write symphonically (callbacks, echos, investing) rather than "hey we need a monster now." I use to love the way "Person of Interest." did that finding the original story and motives. 

When I did a rewrite of the journey she makes to the denouement I realised I could echo her time with her father in SA much more and what the future might hold juxtaposing the two. Indeed David who is drawn in sees the entire fall. 

The advantage of flashforward (and back) in this story, is you end making the reader wonder like Elizabeth,' what is real?' and of course there is no morality as we know it, just function or the failure to do so. 

He shouldn't die, but instead disappear and have a post credit scene with the weyland CEO making a message (takes place after alien 4/resurrection), then we cut to the other side with the message being sent. the camera slowly zooms out revealing david