Comments (Page 87)

"But you could THROW in a Curve-ball of sorts and have the Engineers being the Slaves of this Progenitor Race at some Point in the DISTANT Past."

This is good. The Engineers being the Gods of the Galaxy doesn't excite me. They are plain boring. Seed a world, hibernate, rinse repeat......yawn.    Now, an Engineer rebellion on a hundred alien worlds?! Sign me up!

 "...she spent a great deal of time roaming Africa with her father..."

I'd like to read where her father, while attended a symposium in Cairo, meets Peter Weyland.  Weyland is touring the planet showing off his latest creation David 3....An eight your old Elizabeth waits in a special room for the children of the attending. She escapes the room, only to run into David 3.....

( Heck even a young Meredith could be at this symposium?  She's one year older than Shaw.... )

"  1) Explain why she falls. "

Getting stuck with 'fallback' Charlie Holloway would be one. Elizabeth's first love is God and Charlie has other ideas...

@MonsterZero

I agree with you about Ripley. There is no let-up it's relentless and having lived with the nightmare for so long dying in 3 was a relief. 

If you are (or were) going to take Elizabeth on you have to do two things:-

1) Explain why she falls. 

2) Explain why she is vulnerable. 

My own view is she spent a great deal of time roaming Africa with her father and that made her detached separate and unlike many whose parents were religious she does not react against him she reacts with him. In her own way, she began to replace her mother as his companion and then he dies which is a really big deal (in my world). She idolises him and looks after him in one sense. That's the same with Charlie except Charlie is a child and then to make it complicated she is barren. 

So what's left let's find out why I lost my parents and I am barren?

By the end of the film, she is completely screwed. Mankind's parents hate them and she is no longer barren because of some weird stuff they did. That's got to be rich pickings.

I enjoyed what you said about not having it gift wrapped. When Star Trek does a God resolution it does not matter how convoluted the plot it resolves in, well it was my mother or a jailer/fraudster or a deep space probe. I prefer something where we are even less important than we think we are and demonstrate an endless capacity for getting the wrong end of the stick. So then we can think what if ???  

That can ONLY mean!

But on a Serious Note to me the Fresco Creature has like Mandibles like this The Predator Concept

What we can Gather from WHAT we have had Ridley Scott say is that the Sacrificial Scene was HOW they Seed Worlds, it does-not have to be Earth, when we look at their Navigation Maps they can Access other Galaxies.  After Alien Covenant we had RS say the Engineers will RETURN to Planet 4.

And so from this Information i think its UNLIKELY that the Engineers would ONLY go and occupy Planet 4 and LV-223 and also UNLIKELY that the Earth was the ONLY such World they have Seed/Evolved and Interacted with Intelligent Life.

so in Context to the PLOT then i think there is within the Franchise Various Intelligent Species, are they ALL merely Creations of the Engineers, are some Species also those who Created the Engineers... so YES the Door is OPEN to introduce Various other Races/Worlds.

"This would be like finding out there is no God"

I think its OPEN as to IF we would have seen a GOD within the Franchise, it certainly seems the Engineers are NO GODS.... the only Godlike Connection they would have would be IF say Mankind had Evolved Apes to like Planet of the Apes and the Scientist who did this would Indoctrinate those Apes that THEY (The Scientist) are THEIR (Evolved Apes) Creators and Gods.

So Holloway was RIGHT.... and so Humans with the Engineers Tools/Knowledge could become Creators/Gods just as the Engineers saw themselves maybe as.

Ridley Scott had teased a Question... about that if the Engineers are our Creators/Forerunners then WHAT makes it Possible for Worlds to be able to Host the Biology in the First Place.... he asked WHERE is the BIG GUY...  could this be a Indication of Race/Being or Beings who are ABOVE the Engineers?

some Fans have Speculated that the Mural is a Representation of the Engineers God and Creator, their LORD and they USE the Blood of their LORD to Seed Worlds.  Well there was a Draft that Mentions this but this is SURELY just a Fan Edit.

Fans are looking at the Cruciform Pose of the Mural and Connecting that to the Depictions of Christ and putting 2+2 to make 5 (in thinking this implies GOD).

CHRIST as depicted on the Cross has TWO MAIN Functions of Worship.

1) It is to Acknowledge and Celebrate his SACRIFICE for Mankind.

2) That by Believing in HIM and Following his Ways/Teachings will allow us to ALSO have a Resurrection as he had done.

This is WHY i came to a Theory that maybe the Mural is to Celebrate some Organisms DNA that the Engineers had been Sacrificing (to Create what is in the URNS) and that maybe they saw this as either a Pseudo Resurrection for them, or they saw its DNA as the Next Stage of Evolution for LIFE.

Looking at the PLOT at Large then it seems the Engineers had tried to Evolve themselves to become Superior and Live for Longer but they YEARNED to become IMMORTAL.

It seemed the Engineers had Seeded Worlds with the Creation Tool (Sacrificial Goo) for a LONG LONG TIME.... before they Began to Experiment and Create such Horrors like the Deacon, Xenomorph, Neomorph and the LIKE.

To Create these to PURELY USE against Creations and Worlds you deem a Disappointment or Threat of have Displeased you.... is NOT going to be the Most Efficient Method..... The Sacrificial Goo would be a more IDEAL kind of Reset Switch.  The Black Goo (LV-223) that can Lead to Horrors never mind using Organisms like the Deacon/Xenomorph is a OVERKILL its the NUKE Option it would do the JOB but it would take a LONG TIME before you can Reclaim the Land/World.

so they would have to have some Sinister Agenda they Decided upon, or saw Engineer/Human DNA as NOT being what LIFE should be, or they had a Sadistic Outlook and Hatred towards Humanity that they wanted to INFLICT the Worse Kind of Suffering on us.

I think the Progenitor to the DNA in the Urns/Mural on LV-223 is something the Engineers had NOT gone and Created but something they Encountered.  And so they SAW what this could do to them, and SAW some Potential/Perfection in this Progenitor.

But you could THROW in a Curve-ball of sorts and have the Engineers being the Slaves of this Progenitor Race at some Point in the DISTANT Past.

Either-way i think it would be Interesting to Introduce the Starbeast (a Organism that Predates both LV-223/LV-426).

"Elizabeth earthbound suffers from 'perfect father' syndrome making all the wrong choices and falls in love with a man who is still a boy. The boy plays with fire and out of that emerges the story. "

Okay, that is a great description. Writers don't get paid enough.

"To your question is she not merely symbolic. In my world that's for the reader to decide..."

Guess I'm trying to avoid deciding anything, rather have it gift wrapped with a nice bow. lol! 

"...a broken destiny child?"

I'd like to read more of this early character development. Just what broke her? Some event that led to her infertility? Ripley really didn't need a backstory ( imho ) Shaw is really begging for one.

@MonsterZero

Prometheus The Movie.

All the characters are symbolic. I have met lots of Fifield's and dozens of Milburns. For mankind to take all its foibles on a search for its creators is entirely right.

The Furious Gods

However, I changed all of that in my work and reduced Part 1 down to two human characters, two sides of an Isosceles Triangle, Shaw and Weyland. 

Everyone else merely supports those two. Meredith is crucial for Weyland just as Charlie is crucial for Shaw. 

In the third act of Part 1, the major storytelling point emerges though it's not clear until deep into the second act of Part 11. "What about me you made me why and excuse me but I have a POV." and David and the Engineer meet at the crescendo of the movie and one part of the conversation understands what's going on between them and the other does not but they are both WRONG, wrong about the facts, not necessarily their actions.

Elizabeth survives all this but does she? To your question is she not merely symbolic. In my world that's for the reader to decide and as I have said before everyone has a different view of when she died, even if she died at all.    

Elizabeth earthbound suffers from 'perfect father' syndrome making all the wrong choices and falls in love with a man who is still a boy. The boy plays with fire and out of that emerges the story. 

In one sense Elizabeth is the second coming (not that there was a first coming in my story). She has that dreadful hubris of the destiny child. I was meant to do this?

So Yes she is highly symbolic she as Damon said is our Proxy for the story, and what happens if our creators, as David says in the introduction to AC, are false Gods which is the most existential horror of all. Who better to send into all that than a broken destiny child?

What about another destiny child. Lawrence of Arabia changed his name to T E Shaw. This was the man that began his professional life in the middle east and discovered Hittite reliefs with fascinating inscriptions and went on to write the seven pillars of wisdom. Maybe Elizabeth had more in common with Lawrence than a certain robot. Was it all coincidence?  

Isn't Elizabeth's motivation really what any religious person is trying to realize? Any true believer would gladly follow her path. Heck anyone with a morsel of curiosity would also. I'm starting to think she is more a symbolic character. I can understand the change of direction. David was the obvious choice and it's probably why they went rock climber with Daniels.

Without Charlie, David, her father ( and probably a dozen other men), she'd be lost ( imho ). The anti-Ripley.

I'd dump the Charlie character. Shaw would be the leader of the dig.....Just something to make her the protagonist.

Guess what I'm trying to say is: Shaw is a relatable character and most heroes are unrelatable...Ripley / Han Solo / Kirk / etc....( I'm not doing any of the actions those characters are)....I don't have a good feeling what archetype Shaw is. It's confusing even thinking about her.

@MonsterZero

She is the second string child and does not want to be left out even though she does not believe in the mission. By her overhearing the conversation between David and Weyland, itself a damning indictment of him as a parent, once again she is being overlooked. It's almost as if the "I wish you were a boy." that so many girls have suffered is played out but so much worse. She actually idolises her father and yet he idolises his creation. David is what drives Weyland Marie as he calls her is just another human. Her relationship is love/hate. 

For me, this triangle (an equilateral one) is an internal metaphor for the larger story. David is function, the Engineers of the Moon are function. Some are chosen others disregarded and like Meredith and David they all rebel. 

Very few can see their way to the true purpose and hold to it. The creature by the waterfall holds to its purpose as do all those who follow him whereas the pilot of the derelict is overlooked like Meredith and rebels. (Sound familiar the favoured sacrifice).

Charlie finds the truth in the final seconds and finally knows what to do, so does Meredith and of course Janek, Chance and Ravel. 

The real key is will Elizabeth finally realise what is going on .. everything hangs by a thread on her decisions.  

Risk reward of the characters, especially Vickers, is intriguing. The main ones are all pretty obvious ( immortality, answers, fame, fortune...)

What's in it for Vickers? She's going to get it all ( Weyland Vickers Corp) no matter what. Why take this risk? Make sure the old man won't change the will? Does she actually care for her dad and want to protect him? I can't believe that.

Maybe the Engineers sent probes to all the planets, turned over every rock and found NOTHING. Just nice plants and basic life. I would be very disappointed if we don't find advanced intelligent life in the galaxy. This would be like finding out there is no God. 

If we Connect to AC then we see that Humanity has come Closer to Immortality than the Engineers with the Creation of A.I as in David as he is more Immortal than the Engineers and the Further Irony that HE would Perfect the Experiments of the Engineers to Create the Xenomorph with which the DNA of this Creation via a Series of Events that lead to the Ripley 8 Clone.... has gone to show that Humanity using Davids Creation has managed to gain the Resurrection the Engineers could NOT via Ripley 8

Ripley 8 becoming what the Engineers had WANTED to Achieve but Failed.

I think its Difficult to say with WHO/HOW the Engineers would Worship anything or anyone, the Premise of Prometheus was to indicate that its LIKELY all our Mythos and Religion about Gods/Creators had came from our Interaction with the Engineers.

What we saw was these Majestic Looking Demi-Gods who looked like they had been Cast from Marble, their Skin had a almost Beluga Whale like Texture/Gloss.

As we MOVED on and looking at Comments it seems our Beluga Skin Engineers are either Engineers Evolving themselves this way or a Sub-Creation.

The Engineers like the Ancient Pharaohs liked to BUILD many Monuments and Murals that are Dedicated to their Greatness and Accomplishments and so they take a LOT of Pride in what they have achieved but does that mean they WORSHIP anything?  I get the Impression their Culture/Religion is more CULT WORSHIP like.  And so they LIKELY would Worship things and EVENTS of Great Importance to their Evolution, and Advancement but also their Creations.

So the Hall of Heads is Very Important to them, where as on LV-223 we see a Worship and Acknowledgment of NOT only the Engineers but the Horrors that are Related to the Mural/Fresco.  But we KNOW so  Little about them as we have NOT YET gone to see what the other 4+ Temple Mounds would Contain.

If we go by the Pitch by Jon Spaights (Alien 01 The Master Narrative) it gives the Impression the Engineers were NOT TOO much Different to Mankind in their Very Distant Past, but they had become something of a CULT that would SHUN certain things (like Pleasures, Taboo), they became Interested in Attaining Longer Lives and Immortality.

So who knows IF they had Religion and Beliefs similar to what we had in the PAST (and still do), a LOT may depend on their ORIGINS..... which is UNKNOWN.

So maybe they Worshiped their OWN GODS in the Past? But it seems LIKELY they had become more of  CULT where the 10 Hall of Heads Guys are their Founders.

But as we on Earth have had some CULTS and Belief Systems that Worship things that are NOT like 100% Human (or like) then maybe the Engineers could have such CULTS too, maybe those on LV-223 are like the Devil Worshipers or Illuminati or maybe this is something that the HALL OF HEADS guys had Began?

So maybe they or SOME of them had became Interesting in some Sadistic Practices and too a Interest into the Horrors on LV-223, but i feel its MORE to do with seeing something they had Encountered could CHANGE LIFE to something that is TOTALLY different to the Creation, Evolution and Seeding of Worlds that they had been doing.

It really is QUITE OPEN to try and Figure Out as to WHAT the HELL they was up to on LV-223 as FAR as WHEN did this all Begin and WHY.

The Broader Plot seems to be about CREATION and EVOLUTION and the Engineers going about and Challenging themselves to see what they CAN go and Create and then Evolve, which also includes them Evolving themselves, to Enhance and Prolong themselves.  And i think IF we look more Closer at Home and to Ourselves i am sure that as well as Conquering the Stars, and Trying to FIX our Home (or Find New Homes) i am sure The Greatest Achievement would be to Genetically Engineer a way where we DO-NOT Fall Foul to Genetic Defects, gain Immunity to Disease and Ailments and where we can Extend the Functionality/Longevity of our Bodies/Organs.... but ULTIMATELY we are MORTAL.

And so to Transcend Beyond Mortality would be the GREATEST Achievement and you can Expect that this is SOMETHING the Engineers had tried in the Past, and Likely Failed, and so IF they Encounter a Organism that gives some Glimmer of Hope at gaining some kind of Immortality or Resurrection  then having the Engineers becoming Obsessed with THIS ORGANISM would make Sense.

Peter Weyland thought he would MEET his Makers so they can GRANT HIM more Life, Gods Never Die.... the Engineer seemed UPSET at what Weyland Wanted the full Dialog the Engineer was to reply as to WHY he (Weyland) should be Granted this.  So the Engineer could take OFFENSE if they had been TRYING to By-Pass their OWN MORTALITY and LV-223 had became a Place they maybe TRIED to Achieve his but FAILED... so seeing a Human who is DEMANDING to HAVE what the Engineers had NOT even Achieved themselves would be Highly Offensive to that Engineer.

So maybe some Engineers saw these Starbeasts as being WORTHY of their Resurrection and that the Engineers must NOT be as they could NOT use or Figure Out as to HOW the Starbeast was able to Reincarnate itself.  The Engineers may have seen the Starbeast and its Genetics as being Worthy and Greater than their own Ancestors DNA and so a CULT had Formed....

They could NOT Yield the Properties of the Starbeast to Gain a Resurrection, but they LIKELY saw Greatness in what the Genetics of this Organism has, and Growing Displeased with their Creations... they saw that the DNA of the Starbeast is the Logical Step of Evolution in Honor of this GREAT CREATURE and while they could NOT go and USE this DNA etc to Attain Reincarnation for themselves they could USE it to Condemn/Damn their worthless Creations (Humanity)

He looks rather a lot like this carving of a duck, to be found at Seville Cathedral...

I think one way the Alien could be biomechanical is...

We all notice how tube and wire-like structures are prominent all over the Alien's body such as the head here.

We see such tube like structures along the length of its head that mostly have ends somewhere around the mouth. In this example we know the Alien has a powerful bite force and these pipes look like they're helping such functions. Plus the appearance and form of these pipes give me a feeling that they are working like a Hydraulic system. (Hydraulics are mechanical systems that utilise liquid in a pipe that can be sucked and pushed by a pump so as to extend or retract a component on the other end of the pipe basically) Seriously the tubes and whatever those junctions are look an awful lot like a hydraulic system.

Here on Earth animals are composed of tiny but numerous cells that join hands to perform specific actionsm Animals have cellular muscle for movement but the alien may use this non cellular mechanical system for that purpose at least in some functions, pretty sure they obviously are composed of cells too but cellular components work alongside mechanical units which are absent in animals. This would mean the Alien is in some of these mechanical areas more simple and less complex in design from animals but that may not mean worse. Humans don't build machines that lift heavier weights than elephants with cells obviously but with simpler and larger components. Some fusion of pipes and pumps of a tow crane may be less than the complicated workings of the millions of cells of an elephants trunk but which is stronger? 

Hydraulics probably aren't the only mechanical systems present in the Alien and the purpose of movement may not be the only life function performed with mechanics. Even their mode of reproduction; the egg doesn't get fertilised inside the host, an embryo directly gets implanted inside. There is something that feels very industrial and mechanical about that. It feels rather constructed than 'born'. All this and that may be one of many ways an alien is a fusion of life and machine.

This got me thinking, animals are like that, fully cellular because in view of the beginning of evolution from a tiny microscopic piece of life, we had to start from the bottom and work our way up to here by building up our numbers and complexity. But the millions of cells of various distinct groups integrated to form a man lifting a load is done by some slabs of metal covering some pipes and gears and yes machines can be complex too but nowhere even near, not even close, to how an organism is composed. But we don't build them that complex because we don't need to. The organisms were complex because they had to evolve to more advanced forms naturally. Would that be a hint to the theory that the alien had at least some sort of intervention in its evolution or existence as a species? That would make them even more akin to machines.

@MonsterZero

Vickers & Red Shirts

When I was organising the narrative I dropped five characters. As for the rest, the three pilots banter was given a little more continuity, two characters, but different ones, are the plot device one is a homage to Vietnam/Aliens and the other reminds us of Vickers manipulations and the first world war English officer class. Furdik gives us a link with Yutani and supports Elizabeth.

I agree with you about Vickers she was entirely different she is really important to the story and that's why Janek appears at the briefing and essentially supports her arc all the way through to her different ending. The love scene with Janek is meant to echo what's happening in the Pyramid and shine a light on how it feels to have a robot for a "brother." I also think more from Vickers helps underwrite her genuine warning to her father and conflicted feelings about him. "You had so much grace..." is such a great line about watching one's parents decay and  I began to realise one of the reasons I was drawn in by this story is because that is something which I was dealing with.

Peter Weyland's refusal to grow old and to attempt to attain more life at all costs (mankind expendable no other considerations) is a metaphor of our times and where we end up going should attempt to show us we are on the wrong path altogether and both Vickers and Charlie in death see a glimpse of the truth that is to come.

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling sometimes a keystroke is misplaced when you make a change and you miss the random placement and I am glad you like the stuff with Peter.

You would think the Engineers are way beyond worshipping anything other than themselves? But then again...Looking at humanity I can see their flaws they passed on to us.....And that makes them incredibly dangerous.

Peter F. Hamilton's Salvation series deals with something along these lines.

Love it.

Really like the opening with Peter.

I'd like to read more about Meredith Vickers...Maybe a snippet from her teen years when she encountered a 'crushing' defeat ( from daddy or a boyfriend or school ). Something to wrap her story arc.

I feel there are 4 characters I care about. Weyland, Vickers, David and Shaw. The rest feel like red shirts.

Keep up the great work!

Typo chapter 3: 'Whilst they weae not picking up any signs of life,'

"Maybe humanity can give them the final boost?"

Not sure what you mean ;)

As far as Lovecraft like CULT then YES maybe some Engineers had Started a CULT and had Began to take a Interest in the Genetics of some other Organism rather than the LIFE that they are Permitted to Evolve.

Regarding the Engineers trying to Transcend to the Multiverse, this reminded me a LITTLE of the HP Lovecraft Story (FROM BEYOND) so that is WHY i mentioned about MAYBE the Engineers attempted something like this and they INADVERTENTLY just allowed a ALIEN PARASITIC ORGANISM into their Universe.

This Organism being the Genesis Point/Ancestor to the Deacon, Xenomorph etc etc, the STARBEAST if you would, and IF the Engineers saw their Life-Cycle as something that Carried on their Genetic Memory (like Ripley 8) the Engineers could SEE this Organism as maybe their Salvation and Answer to their Mortality.

But this NEVER WORKED... but then some of the Engineers could have been Fascinated by the Starbeast and so they STARTED a CULT to Worship it.

@Michelle Nobody in my circle got infected so probably I am well.

ignorantGuy

Of course and my apologies. Post corrected and again.

https://prometheuscontinuationstory.com

Trust you are well. 

Nice to see you around here. Could you please provide also the link again?

 'ALTAR being a Focal Point'

I'd like to think the Engineers, in attempting to transcend, glimpsed something that is perhaps guiding them and / or driving them mad( like a Lovecraft cult ). 

Engineers are putting a lot of time and effort in to some scheme and if they haven't figured it out in all this time......Maybe humanity can give them the final boost?

Nice. alien.( Unlike the xenomorph which is more humanoid )

'The Thing' comes to mind.

"Would have loved to see millions of these types in AC"

The only Problem would be HOW would they react to David and Dr Shaw?  So then its a Question of would people had liked to seen THOSE GUYS... getting Bombarded and Dead ;)

I doubt this would be the END of the Engineers, i know that some would LIKE to see Engineers who looked more like those in Prometheus again and i think IF we ever saw any again then DISNEY would go back to the LOOK in Prometheus but i think they would be Portrayed as NOT much different to the Predators (Kick Ass and Ask Questions latter).

Regarding the Engineers Tech i think their Technology/Secrets and Knowledge is something that W-Y and the like would SURELY have more Interest in rather than to Pursue to the Xenomorph

UNLESS there is something to be GAINED from the Xenomorph beyond just that it is a Deadly Organism that can Wreck Havoc on a Colony, City or World that it is UNLEASHED on.

The Engineers Star Maps may be USEFUL but they are NOT much USE if we dont have the Technology to Explore their Maps.  But learn to USE or Reverse Engineer their Space Technology then Mankind has Access to Entire Galaxy and Beyond.

Surely something more Worthwhile than EGGS!

I think its a NICE to see New Monsters and with the Black Goo well the Options really are LIMITLESS.

i'm getting serious necromorph and head crab vibes from these guys

I like the strangeness of the Prometheus Engineers. Would have loved to see millions of these types in AC.

The only thing humans in the 22nd century might want from the Elder / Engineers might be their star maps. This would save a great deal of exploration time and money. Humans seem to have everything they need. The desire for the 'perfect weapon' is really just movie plot nonsense.

When looking at some of the THINGS that Ridley Scott has said about the Engineers and Especially after AC.  He has said they are NOT a Race but a Civilization, and before he has said about JUST as there are Many Versions/Races of Man then WHY cant the same be said for the Engineers.

So he was looking at the Species having some Diversity, even Hinting those on Planet 4 are the Originals and they Live for about 200 Years.

So when we look at our Prometheus Engineers then they do look more like they were a Perfect Creation as far as ART, as in you have Made a Perfect Human Form from MARBLE and then Brought it to LIFE.

The HALL OF HEADS does seem to show some Diversity within the Engineers, there appears to be some subtitle Differences like you see in Star Trek with some of the HUMANOID Races... for Example.... Humans, Romulans, Vulcans and Bajorans.  These all have a Very Human like Appearance compared to say Klingons, Ferengi and Cardassians 

So there could be some Diversity where the Genetic Linage of the Engineers traces back to some Diversity of their Ancestors, they likely have Seeded the DNA of their Ancestors in different ways to Create Humanoids on Worlds who may have some Variety.

I will add that the Engineers that David had Experimented on and Drawn did look more like those from Prometheus than what we saw on Planet 4 (The Brows and Noses).

I think its OPEN to explore Ancestral Race above those Engineers, and besides i think the PLOT leaves it OPEN to take us to Worlds with Diverse Engineers Aesthetically because if we look back on Earth then we came from the Homo Species of which the Lineage of Homo Erectus is where we had Evolved from as well as Neanderthal Man also having the same Linage.

But you can see there are Differences between a Homo Sapien (Human) and a Neanderthal.  So if we can Imagine that there was a Number of other Humanoids that was in that Linage who along with Neanderthals had survived as of TODAY then you would have some Genetic Diversity and so WHY cant the same be said about the Engineers Genetic Linage?

But i think that MOST Fans want to see the RETURN of the Prometheus Style Engineers... the Living Statues.... aka Synthetic Looking.

"you'd think they'd be targeting Engineer / Elder technology by the 24th century"

Yeah this is a PROBLEM when they went for the PLOT of Prometheus a Problem that could be SOLVED.... Provided.

1) The Engineers World that David and Dr Shaw went to was MUCH FURTHER AWAY than Planet 4, but then its HOW do other Humans from Earth reach such a World before the events of ALIEN.

2) Before we get to ALIEN then LV-223 is DESTROYED leaving the ONLY remnants of the Technology/Bio-Weapon on the Derelict on LV-426

Considering Alien Covenant then by the Year 2120 it would make sense that there is NOTHING to be had regarding the Engineers Tech and Xenomorph/Black Goo on LV-223, Planet 4 and Origae-6 by the TIME we get to ALIEN.

The Idea i had for where David and Dr Shaw would go was VERY FAR AWAY and they would NOT arrive until after 2150-2200, and so the AFTERMATH where some Engineers would then be on a Conquest to Destroy us would not take place until after 2300-2400, its left OPEN to bring the Engineers back say before Alien R or after Alien R.

You still have the Problem of LV-223 though.

Yeah i am Concerned with the TIME-LINE and the Setting on Earth in such a Time-Line. To have a Encounter and Outbreak on Earth set before say 2200 makes NO SENSE and will ONLY go and Conflict the WHOLE FRANCHISE.

They did say that we would get a SLOW BUILD UP so we WONT be thrown into Xenomorph Armageddon right away but EVENTUALLY they make a Appearance and so the Xenomorph Encounters may take place AWAY from Earth.  And so MAYBE there would NOT be any Xenomorphs on Earth?  but it would still CONFLICT the Franchise well ESPECIALLY the Prequels if its SET before the events of Prometheus (2093)

The NOT TOO DISTANT is a Concern.... i think this means at VERY LEAST we are going to see a TV Show thats SET before ALIEN.  We currently are about 100 Years away from ALIEN (2022) and i would NOT say thats in the NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE ;)

The ALIEN Time-Line is not the same as our Actual One, we had the TED TALK 2023 with Prometheus and well we are a LONG WAY from having David the Robot in 2021, so Technology in the ALIEN Franchise is ahead of what it is in REAL LIFE.

It seems that Corporate Conquest for Space Resources plays a Part and so we would be in a TIME where Space Travel is NOT as much in its Infancy as NOW and so i would ASSUME we have Space Stations that are inhabited by Hundreds of People and Bases on the Moon/Mars.

A.I is listed as a Future Threat and so we have to assume they have Sentient Computers or Synthetics and so again with the Space Exploration i cant see this being set in 10, 20 Years.

I would say that being set after ALIEN so say 150 Years or 100 is NOT what i would call Distant Future....

So i think 50 Years would maybe be Classed as NOT to Distant... but lets say we are looking at the Year 2050-2075 in the ALIEN Franchise i think this would CONFLICT the Franchise.....

But MAYBE what we have is Disney wanting to go for a ALTERNATIVE HISTORY and THUS.... make the Prequels become Obsolete.

As for RIPLEY they think a TV Show should be about her before ALIEN but then HOW would you have a Younger Ripley who then encounters the Xenomorph?

NO THANKS she is DEAD!  Move On!

Unless they want to Continue after Alien Resurrection..... but yeah i have Concerns with the TV Series as Continuity with the Franchise.

Oh and the amount of people upset it isn't about Ripley is ridiculous. We don't need any more Ripley stories.

My only real issue with the show thus far is it's apparently going to be on Earth before the events of any movie. No. I'm not for an Earth set Alien at any point in the timeline. But the woke complaints? Blown way out of proportion. I know a ton of  movies these days are indeed very preachy, not going to name any examples. What I believe the show is going to attempt is show the company's point of view and how they treat those in their pursuit of this species. Something that Marvel's awful comics are failing miserably at.

Alien:Resurrection takes place in 2386. W Y and the military are still running around looking for the perfect weapon, you'd think they'd be targeting Engineer / Elder technology by the 24th century....surely they have come across these aliens by that time?!

Maybe the Earth is dystopian and there just isn't any space exploration. 

I'd like to see more Engineers..... but after the year 2400. Don't have to be so concerned with the timeline. 

So what we have is a STORY about Sub-Creation....  The Engineers Created us (which kind who knows, depends if they going for the LV-223 and Planet 4 as being the same or a Sub-Creation of the other).  This Plot was Continued with David with him playing Doctor Moreau/Frankenstein and it seems likely we would have seen WHAT ELSE he Created Next.

So we are going DOWN that Creation Layer of the Cake.

Where as with Prometheus the SET-UP was to Discover what is UP the Layer of Creation, as Dr Shaw wanted to know... "who Created them" but Theatrically we NEVER got a Clear Answer.

Back in the Summer of 2015 it seemed Ridley Scott was still Interested in that Question.

“I thought the subtext of that film was a bit florid and grandiose, but it asks a good question: who created us?”

Well Prometheus had indicated the Engineers, so thats something we kind of KNOW unless he had Intended to Change that a Little?

He Continued....

“You’ve got to go back and find those engineers and see what they are thinking. If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy?”

So this seems to Indicate the Engineers played a Role in our Creation and that WHY was something they was looking to maybe Explore....  But then there was that Question.... that someone/some Race had Created those Engineers.

But alas it seems things Changed before we got to the Final Drafts that became Alien Covenant, with that Movie there is NOTHING on Screen that is to SHOW that those Engineers and the Ones in Prometheus are NOT the same.  Ridley Scott had said they DID-NOT want to Meet God in the First Movie and with Dr Shaws intended QUESTIONS then it would seem our Engineers are merely a Sub-Creation by some other Race/Being.

There is NOT enough given to Prove if they are going for the LV-223 kinds to be a Sub-Creation of the Planet 4 kind, all RS had indicated was that the Engineers are NOT a RACE but a Civilization and so there can be some Diversity in their Appearance.  Also the LV-223 guys are the Military so they are likely Engineered as Super Soldiers.

so we NEVER really got more Depth/History to our Engineers, we NEVER had any Clear Indication as to WHO had Created Them or if that THEM applies to our Prometheus Engineers.

Ridley Scott has Confirmed the Engineers are NOT just Confined to Planet 4 and LV-223 and we would have seen them Return.  What he had given away and Chris Seagers is the HALL OF HEADS are the Hierarchy of the Engineers those who had Created the CULT/WAYS of their Civilization.

The Hall of Heads shows a Race who have some Diversity in their Appearance. Where are these Guys? likely LONG GONE.... would they have been TALLER than our Engineers?

Michelle brought up the Babushka Doll and so maybe the OLDER GENERATIONS of the Engineers are Taller?  even within the Abrahamic Faith it seems indicated that ADAM was MUCH MORE Taller than our Current Human Form.

I think it was a Missed Opportunity to NOT go and Explore the Layer of the Cake above our Engineers.

"If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy?”

So YES i think we should go and Explore who the BIG BOY or Big Boys are.

Our Engineers are likely the Sub-Creation of someone else.

I think the THEMES are Important as thats the Anchor Points the Foundation of the STORY but you need to then TELL that STORY in a Good Way.

With the Engineers we dont have much of a Explanation as far as Theatrically so for those who have ONLY seen the Movies then there is NOTHING MUCH given away about them and LESS SO with Alien Covenant

We have to remember the STARTING POINT for the Prequels was to give us more Information on WHO is the Space Jockey, more so as far as WHAT was their RACE and Intention with that Cargo (it also covered a bit about the Cargo but this was REDUCED down when we got to Prometheus).

So the STORY was to be about HOW can you Explore the Space Jockey and give them a STORY that we can Connect to Earth and this is WHEN they went for the CHARIOT OF THE GODS kind of Plot.

That the Space Jockey are the Creators of Humanity, and that they are Humanoid in Appearance to we can RELATE to them. Thus in many of the Ancient Cultures and Religions that DEPICT our Creators/Gods we see they are Mainly VERY HUMAN looking.... many accounts more so than even the Planet 4 Engineers.

some Cultures do depict our Gods as being TALLER than Humans and so THIS is what they went for. But in Numerous Cultures the Gods are NOT really any Larger than us.

So if we are looking at a Interpretation of ALL of our Ancient Mythos/Religion as far as our Creators.... then they do APPEAR to be Very Human.

Going back to the Concepts for Prometheus then some do look LESS HUMAN than others.  The Final Concept they decided on was to make them appear like Living Marble Statues. I dont think it would have COST a Great Deal more to make those Planet 4 Engineers look more like in Prometheus.

Bare in Mind that ONLY their Faces/Heads and Hands are shown on Planet 4, it would NOT have taken Vastly Longer to Paint them more Pale and even USE a Glossy Paint and then stick some Contact Lenses in.

And so i dont think that BUDGET had any Effect on HOW our Engineers looked.

I think the Biggest Issue is the SIZE but with Ridley Scott he did-not want to use any kind of SPECIAL EFFECTS like they used in The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit etc  It is Plain to see that the Space Jockey is about 12-15ft Tall and this was WHAT was intended with the Engineers.

The Dead Bodies on Planet 4 and the Size of the Doors etc could have been made to look the RIGHT SIZE for beings who are 10-12ft Tall say. But to be fair the Doors did seem to be HUGE so it was merely the Bodies that remained a 6-8ft Scale.

The STORY is Ultimately about CREATION and WHY would you want to SUB-CREATE and its about KNOWLEDGE and HOW that such Knowledge can be a Powerful Tool, its about showing the PITFALLS of Creating something with Free-will and how this can lead to your Creation becoming Rebellious and Sentient.

From Inception its about a Ancient Humanoid Race who have been around for Many Many Millions or over Billion Years, and that this Race had ONCE been Similar to Mankind...  would have had Arts, Entertainment like we have, but they are a Race who Technologically Evolved and Genetically Evolved themselves too.  They then began to LIVE more Basic Lives of the Basic things to Survive and so their Technology was used for Specific Purposes to allow for Survival they likely Shunned Technology like the AMISH people.

They become more Ritual/Religious like a Cult.... they turned against TABOO and SEX as Sex is Basically just to Procreate and so any LUST or EMOTION that is Attached to this they had Abandoned.  So they Procreated by other Means and as they Evolved themselves they came to a Point when they had LOST the Ability to Procreate and YET they had NEVER Managed to become IMMORTAL.... so they became on BORROWED TIME.

They would Seed Words and Evolve Worlds, to the Point to Create other Humanoids in their Likeness where they would then Evolve them Over Time, both Technologically, but also with Knowledge/Customs and Genetically.  They Nurtured their Creations taught them Limited Knowledge (but NOT the FULL FRUITS of their Knowledge).

It seemed that the Idea was these Engineers were TRYING to Evolve themselves to Transpire their Mortality to become Immortal and then their Creations could Inherent all their Knowledge and Technology.

They could COULD-NOT go and Achieve this Transcendence to Immortality and so as a Race who could NOT go and Procreate they had to NOW go and SHARE the Cosmos with their Creations who given TIME and Knowledge could become a Threat, with the Engineers Knowledge and Technology then eventually WE could become the Gods....

It would seem we also then STARTED to NOT see WHY we should Worship and Serve our Creators, we behaved in ways that Offended them... and so this was a PROBLEM and ONE they had attempted to Address by Creating Weapons to Destroy us.

This PLOT has Changed as we carried on with the Prequels, but again NONE of it is Really Explored as far as ON SCREEN but the Basis is still there.

Creation, Sub Creating and to HOW much Free-Will you allow your Creations and the Hubris that your Creations will One Day go and Overthrow you.

With Alien Covenant we was NOT really shown much about the Engineers, which is a SHAME but with the PLOT there can be MANY WORLDS were we can Explore our Engineers.

And for those who are DISAPPOINTED.... they can Introduce a Race who are ABOVE the Engineers who Do-Not have to be too Familiar to Humans ;)

I would have liked to Discover a Race who are more Aesthetically Connected to the Space Jockey in Terms of Body Proportions but YES the Pilot should still be a Space Suit.

BD

There are things that are more interesting than if David has a soul. It might be interesting in itself but I'm not watching the Alien-movies for that.

Give me more about the Engineers, this is a way to expand the franchise with something that's interesting and alien. David is too close to humans and I'm not interested in that (humans versus androids). Keep the android as a side-thing but not a central part. The Engineers is a book, David is or should be a foot-note. Introduces other life-forms, and so on.

“I think the Engineers in Prometheus as a Clone/Genetically Engineered Sub-Creation of the Planet 4 Engineers does FIT with the Themes/Plot.”

I hear what you're saying but I prefer a good story over themes. The original Engineers should have looked more alien if those on Planet 4 were the originals, they were just disappointing and the themes don't matter if the story is disappointing. To paraphrase one of those on the Xenomorphing podcast when they had the episode on Alien Covenant “none of them look like Engineers they look like shit”. Maybe I wouldn't have put it like that but I agree. Alien Covenant is a mixed bag, that's also the opinion of many on the Xenomorphing podcast.

To link human history to the Engineers could be interesting but it still doesn't make it alright to make the Engineers on Planet 4 look like us. Who ever decided to make them look like they do should have made them more Alien. I don't want to single out any particular person but who ever decided that made the wrong decision. You can have a link between humans and the Engineers and still make those on Planet 4 more interesting and more alien because there would be a link anyways which could be explained by some smart writing and by having scenes that make sense. When I look at deleted scenes there were those that should have been kept in (again), the same as in Prometheus.

“ So YES it seems they have been made to be more HUMAN.”
Genetic variations among the Engineers, fine but don't make them like humans because it makes them less interesting. Those on P4 looked more human which I thought was boring and while I understand the idea it doesn't come off as good on the screen. You could look at other movies and find inspiration in them to make the Engineers more Alien (the Orchs in Lord of the Rings for example, or Voldemort in Harry Potter, they both look more interesting while still looking human-ish).

“... about Knowledge and Technology in Part, its to SHOW us these Engineers are NOT really Gods, they are Merely Humanoids who have the BENEFIT of being around for MANY MANY MANY Years more than us and so their Knowledge and Technology is WHAT makes them more Godlike…”

That makes sense but I still don't like the way they took with the Engineers. I wanted them to be more alien, I would have liked to see more of their society and so on but we were given disappointing Engineers that were there for just some seconds and a city that looked like a stone-hut or what ever (obviously I exaggerate). Unfortunately those things just added to the pile of disappointments in Covenant even though there are things in it to like.

“Our Engineers were supposed to be more Statue like…”

That would have been so much better, I wonder if it was a budget-thing to make them look like that. It would have fitted with Prometheus to use some CGI so they would look more like the one in Prometheus and make more sense of them.

“.... so maybe this has Changed from this being because they are GODLIKE to actually NOW being a Sub-Created Species much like David and Replicants are.”

Which is worse although I sort of get the point but that isn't to say that it's good to make them look like those on Planet 4.
I would like the Engineers to be found on different planets. If they've advanced technology they might be able to terraform things which is an interesting reference to Aliens. Could there be a connection there? Who knows, it's an interesting idea but I doubt that they'll explore that side.

Hopefully Disney will understand that the franchise needs to expand and that they should keep the Engineers but like you I'm afraid that they'll go on with more Xenos and pulse-rifles. We'll see if they will be allowed to do something new or if Disney will step in and we'll get a Star Wars disappointment.

“I think we will see the Engineers but i think they will CHANGE the Plot and Appearance of them.”

Maybe it'll be improved compared to Covenant? If that's the case then I'm for it. This doesn't mean that you can't have philosophy in it but I also don't want a Aliens 2 or a David 3 (if Prometheus was David 1 and Covenant was David 2). What I know is that I don't want what Ridley seems to want, namely more David.

About the Elders, maybe they didn't have the look but it made sense, to me that's important. I like that deleted scene which of course was deleted, maybe for some reason that I don't like and was probably for the worse. Maybe hint at some of it if you won't be allowed another movie. Don't save all the interesting things for later, show at least some of it to make people interested like an introduction.

The Engineers could have created mankind for many reasons, not just one. I'm not sure what that reason would be even if it would be interesting to get some for it.

Speaking of Weyland, it would have been interesting to see some more flashbacks between him and David in Alien Covenant. When David does X you get a flashback between him and Weyland that sort of explains his reason for doing so but don't over-do it. That would maybe have given us at least one other well-written human character in Alien Covenant even though it would have been one that wasn't featured that much but it would probably have elevated the movie.

“... or the Engineers could REFUSE to even give her any Reason.”
That would have been fun like, prrf you don't get an answer. :D

“This is in PART why they had a Tricky Plot to Continue…”

Maybe they should have ended Prometheus in a better way? By doing that you avoid the difficult task when you try to figure out where to go with the sequel. She would probably die very shortly after they reach the Engineers home-world but whatever, we don't need to see her again.

As far as why the Engineers wanted to get rid of us it's simple, just look at how mankind acts today. The Jesus-explanation is less interesting.

What's more important is where to go now? To put it short I would like for them to make new worlds, new life-forms, things that we haven't seen before, better made human characters and an end to the robot-story or stories (not more of them in the future). Scott said that it's about what kind of world that David will create, I'm not the least interested in that and also there are more things that they can expand on (like corporate greed, the Engineers, and so on) or even better introduce something new into the franchise.

Woke? It's a little late to say that, Weyland Yutani anyone? They can whine if they feel like it but also those that are responsible for it can make whatever they want.

Ripley's speech in Alien 3 says it all. The first time they heard about the monster it was crew expandable, after that they sent in marines that were also expandable. WY gives less than a crap about anyone as long as they get the profit. My point is that it has been woke from the beginning (woke in a positive way I would say). People that whine about it can watch Fox news all they want, freedom of choice you know?

It's an important topic so why not? Whatever you think I guess that it's good to have a discussion about it. Further on I would say that it's also about who has the last say. WY is a good example of that, do as we say or else even though they are not as upfront with it but if you read between the lines it's there.

As for when it should be set I guess that it should be at least one hundred years from now. Don't have it too close to our time so there will be a potential for some things to have changed. Sci-fi has always been about future things, right?

Hopefully it will be good but that requires good writers and editing that isn't bad. Look at the prequels as a way to not make things.

I think Mankind has Mistreated itself a LOT, especially those in POWER would see those UNDER them as Expendable and NOT Important... GREED and POWER are something that is SEEN in the Franchise.

As Ripley had said "I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them f***ing each other over for a goddamn percentage"

But there are Inequalities in LIFE and i am sure the TV Series will SHOW that, and maybe it would TOUCH on the A.I 

If you look at David he has Emotions, he is Sentient and YET he is still Treated as a TOASTER... he is Superior but he is NOT Treated Equal.  If there are other Synthetics who are as FREE as David who FEEL they Deserve to be Treated Equal well you can WONDER what they would DO to Cause Harm and Problems to their Unworthy Creators?

I think the Franchise which includes the Prequels have been Feminist with STRONG Emphasis on Female Leads. So will it tackle other areas of Inequality?

LGBT?, Racial Discrimination? Religious Freedom?

Who knows... would we have GOT OVER these things in the FUTURE?

I think it depends on HOW FAR in the Future the TV Series is SET and it seems that its in the NOT too Distant Future.  I suspect it would be more about the CULTURE Divide and Layers of  Standard of living and so the UPPER CLASS and those who are from Areas of Poverty and Poor Countries who will be OFFERED what seems Opportunity by the Wealthy Corps... but in Reality they will be USED!

So we could see some kinds of Future Day Slavery and Unknowing Guinea Pigs and so what kind of Inequalities and HOW it is People will be used as merely Pawns... maybe depends on WHERE the TV Show is SET-IN

As FAR as HOW FAR we have come in the Space Age at the TIME of the TV Show.  I suspect its SET between 2050-2075

Certainly she was a Very Naive Character, but you could tell that her Experience with the Trilobite and Loss of Charlie had a Effect on her.... she has NOTHING, she can not Bare Children (not in the Traditional Sense) it seems she has NOTHING to go back Home too and so for her its the ANSWERS that she wants.... and i think that Depending on those Answers could BREAK her and so her ARC could be Interesting... all she has is her FAITH and a QUEST for Answers.  So depending on her Answers or lack of Any then that could give her a GOOD STORY ARC.

With David in Prometheus he was a Interesting Character he is FREE from being the Servant of Peter Weyland, he is FREE from being Mistreated and so you do get the Impression that maybe IF he was Treated Well by People then he would NOT be a EVIL Character.

His Line to Daniels is Interesting "if we are KIND it will be a KIND world"

And so i think you could have had a Interesting Dynamic with Dr Shaw, he could have GROWN very FOND and Protective of her, while she could become WRECKLAS in her Persuit of her Answers even if this PUTS her in Danger.

Would David allow her to be PLACED in any Danger?

Maybe he would FALL for her? But how would such EMOTIONS be Handled by HIM and WHAT IF that LOVE is never Reciprocated?  

If she gains Attention from the BEINGS that they could MEET and then it seems to David that Dr Shaw has more Interest in them and NOT HIM and these beings have NO interest in David then could he become Jealous?

So there are Numerous ways they could have Evolved the Arc of their Stories and Dynamic, that SADLY we never saw in Alien Covenant but had Glimpses with The Crossing Prologue.

Sadly its a Case of would the CORE of the Franchise Fanbase want and watch a Movie that Revolves around those TWO?  Can you have a Movie where HALF of it is Dedicated to just TWO CHARACTERS?

You could but would that APPEAL to the Broad Fanbase and i think that FOX had felt the Fanbase wanted the Origins of the Xenomorph and to see our MONSTER back on the Screen and eventually take us to the Derelict on LV-426

There is a STORY there from when Dr Shaw had recovered Davids Body/Head to the Point when Dr Shaw ended up on that Slab of Rock.  While it may not be Quite what could have been DONE with the Story.. i feel there is a STORY there that would WARRANT a Novel.

It appeared there was some Shared Fondness between Dr Shaw and David but SOMETHING had Happened... that Ultimately lead to her as becoming a CADAVER we may get some Insight from Alien Covenant and Especially Davids NOTES...

To have him merely PLAYING HER all along and wanting to just KILL the Engineers and USE her for his Experiments i think is a COP OUT... i think there could be more to it than that.... i think seeing Dr Shaw make a Discovery and NOT want to be Part of a OFFER that David has for her.... leads to the FALL of their Relationship and the Seeds to he becoming his TEST Subject.

But YES it could have gone so much Differently had they Continued with what seemed the Plan in 2012-2013.

As for David.... i think that as of NOW (Alien Covenant) then it will be back to SUB-CREATION.... i suspect he would be going to Create/Evolve his own Children which is WHERE those Embryo's will come into PLAY as RS had said its NOT about the Xenomorph, but WHAT KIND of WORLD would David Create and about A.I (where he also referred to Replicants as A.I and so A.I can be Organic).