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ALIEN CHRONICLES 03: First flight of the Nostromo
have the first crew of the Nostromo take her out, testing the landing system on a planet or two ( spoiler alert: They find something! ), then they pick up it's first mining barge. During the episode they lose multiple crew members ( crushed, eaten ), cursing the ship from the start. Final scene: Dallas ( CGI with Skerritt making a cameo ) taking command......With Ripley as his girlfriend. (thanks BlackAnt )
While I'm at I want to weave in a little fun fact. John Mctiernan directed Predator the year before. Fun but unlikely precursor to AVP lol.
I can definitely maybe see him as hardened old Colonial marine lol.
And yeah the music was a rather fun and unexpected fine. I sat with that piece in my head for a couple hours before I looked it up. I guess John Mctiernan didn't like Michael Kamen's composition for that scene and borrowed from James Horner. It works since both were Fox movies.
dk I'm going to have to disagree with you on AVP'04, Its a terrible movie no matter what. AVPR did AVP justice by killing off the AVP movie series which allowed stand-alone alien and predator movies to be made because befre then Fox was only wanting to make more AVPs which I was not a fan of because:
1. Paul W S Anderson was at the helm of the first movie which he butchered alot of the original lore for his own homebrew lore.
2. Present day Earth as a setting
3. Paul W S Anderson butchered the comic's lore and made a mess of it in the movie. Originally in the comics the Predators think the Humans are the ultimate prey, not the xenomorphs. In the movie the predators think its the xenomorphs. By comparison the xenomorphs aren't as dangerious as humans, because humans rival the yaut'ja on an intellectual level because we have access to space travel and can use the Predator's own weapons against them while the xenomorphs have the intellect and behavior of a baboon.
Very good ear, and I hear what you post and mean I think.
Honestly, I tend to ignore good scores since they usually immerse with everything else. It's a package deal and I love it when all those elements match up. I notice the impact of a score when it is absent.
I am pretty sure some of these pieces can be discussed among alert and astute fans, and that is fantastic! Carry on!
Bruce would be awesome to see in an extremely subtle and obscure way even if a voice on a radio announcement, for an Alien show.
Here's the scene as well as the original music btw
Music begins at about 2:05
Very interesting topic BigDave....well done again as always.
Yes I agree there are many stories worth telling here and for good reason.
For me I want to see Guy Pearce brought back and I would like to see a young Peter Weyland create the Weyland corporation. I find these types of stories irresistible and worth while.
Obviously without a doubt I want to see a younger Ellen Ripley and how she comes to be aboard the Nostromo.
If it were possible I would like to see Ash tied in within a few of these story lines and then how he gets put on the ship as well.
Very fascinating indeed!
I think thats a Good Point... if she had Quite a bit of Success after ALIENS then the Writers for a 3rd Movie maybe would have came up with a Plot thats set say 10 Years after ALIENS, so she could reprise her Roll as Newt.
Regarding the OT... i think that you have other Avenues for a ALIEN Movie than having to RETCON anything, or Connecting to Previous Characters.
Its a BIG Galaxy and who knows what Worlds had Eggs arrive, or have the After-Math of the Black Goo and WHAT kind of Horrors are in Store..
Well the Idea would be the First Two would also be where we go back and forth to KEY Characters, its from EP4 where it would be a BIT like ALIEN, EP5/6 get like AR and it be about 7/8 when it be Multiple Monsters on the Rampage and more Running and Shooting...
The Episode on the Stranded Salvage Ship/Hauler the Charon would be Very Similar to ALIEN.
I attempt to Uplift and Use some Concepts that were Dropped from the Franchise... but it MAY NOT go and please those who may want something more Generic and YES there are Elements where its LIKE... we have Seen This before (just done slightly different) but i CHALLENGE anyone to give a Xenomorph Movie/TV Show where you do something for MOST of it that has NOT been done before ;)
The Octopoid like Organism on the ALIEN Ship would be like a Clam well it would look like a Cross Between Xeno-Egg and a Clam... The Cecaelias (what i currently will call it) will have TWO ways to Procreate.. 1) It can Egg Morph a Host which Produces the Arachnoid Queen, 2) It can Impregnate a Parasite that Hijacks a Females Ovaries to Produce something more Similar to the Xenomorph.
The Arachnoid (working name at moment) will have 4 Legs that are similar to say a Face Hugger, it has 2 Arms, and 2 Tentacles. Again this has TWO ways to Procreate the SAME Organism.... it has a Tail that has Multiple Uses, it has a Stinger that will Paralyses a Victim, this Stinger then OPENS UP to allow the Organism to Weave like a Web/Cocoon to Immobilize a Host (stick them to Walls) but then it also can Deposit Small Eggs.
The Arachnoid can also Directly Implant a Scarab like Organism into a Hosts Throat. The Eggs will hatch like Arachnid/Scarab like Creatures that will try to Enter a Host which includes EAT there way in.
Either Procreation will lead to another Variant a Bi-Pedal Organism a bit Different to the Xenomorph with 2 Extra Razor Sharp Scythed Limbs. I have NOT thought of HOW or IF these can Procreate.
The Last Organism the Incubus is more like the Xenomorph and this can Infect a Females Egg Cells to make a Off-Spring thats VERY similar to the Xenomorph or with a Male it infects a Virus like Pathogen that would see them Loose their Minds, Mutate but eventually they would just reduce to a Mass of Genetic Material where some Egg/Spores will grow from.
The Idea is it would show the ALIEN SHIP in One of its Cargo Holds has a Organism that looks to Procreate and that each Generation of Procreation will Change to suit its Environment and Chances of Survival. The Arachnoids and Off-Spring have a Hive Mind.
But the Incubus has a Psychic Link also with its Host, but i was thinking also anyone it can come into LONG Contact with.
The Monsters Aesthetic i invasion to Merge a lot of Unused Concepts even going back to ALIEN.
I always loved 3's visual style. Just Dark and nasty...I love it.
I also love Resurrection's cast for the most part. They may not have much depth but they had personality
That would work BigDave! Very Alien...better in space, but i'll soon get over that aspect.
Need more monsters like your idea...a xeno a episode would get tiresome (Daleks every episode, Klingons every episode, etc......)
If Carrie Henn had enjoyed a successful acting career ( teen movies or some Arnold flick)....I'm sure they would have kept the team together ( I'm not suggesting Alien3 was her fault though ) only a handful of actors have made the jump from a childhood acting career to a-list movie star able to carry / support a major motion picture!
Certainly LETO....
With a lot of those Movies we have Loose Ends so to Speak, these are NOT shown on Screen... we can ASSUME that after ALIENS then the Derelict is NULL/VOID and the ONLY route to the Xenomorph was Ripley and she is TOAST.
Between ALIEN and ALIENS then we still have the Derelict sitting there, but we are given the indication that for some reason the Company are Unaware and so there is Questions to ASK about the Company after they Failed to get a Specimen with Special Order 937, but indeed its something that had no Continuation to WHAT was NEXT, but that NEVER effected the Franchise.. so i see your Point.
The Prequels Leave more such Loose Ends... and its UNLIKELY we would get a Conclusion or Answers to WHY they only bother with LV-426.
A New TV Series should NOT have to Conflict anything, but by Virtue of it seeming like a ALIEN SHIP and ALIEN ORGANISM that are related to the ALIEN Franchise, and these END UP on Earth like in the NOT too Distant Future was a Concern.
But it NEED to NOT be if with a Good Solid Written Plot with a Conclusion to Clear Up any Loose Ends ;)
If the Time-Line is say 2035-2045 then we look at HOW does the ALIEN come into play?
1) A Space Mission to somewhere in our Solar System, say Mars returns with a Specimen? or on the Moon!..... maybe that can Work.... it maybe could be like what ALIEN was like say IF they Stuck Kane on ICE.. and Returned Home.. But for me having something related to the Xenomorph in our Solar System would BEG the Question... WHY bother with LV-426
2) They Detect a Crashed Derelict at Sea (or One Crashes into the Sea Recently) and they Recover it and Especially if its Weyland or Weyland-Yutani. This would Conflict the Prequels even more...
3) They Discover a Crashed Derelict on Land somewhere, somewhere Remote would be better, Under Ice (but we are doing a The Thing here), Worse would be something Recently Crashes out to Discover it and more so IF the Weyland/Weyland Yutani Company are Involved in a Time-Line prior to the Prequels.
The WORST CASE would be that a Derelict/Juggernaught comes to Earth to Attack us, and its Shot Down, but then we get Xenomorphs and Engineers and Especially if its NOT in a Remote Location.... BUT I DOUBT we shall see such a Plot ;)
I will make a TOPIC on my Idea i had the other Night, it may not Please Everyone because there would be 3 kinds of Monster and only the ONE would be Very Close to the Xenomorph... the Incubus if you would.
The Nutshell is...
A Downed Earth Space Mission crashes in the Bermuda Triangle, a Search and Rescue Team are Deployed to where the Ship is Suspected to be, but they Discover something else.... They Enter the ALIEN Ship, a Tremor Happens and causes a Team Member to Fall into a PIT of Pods.. and becomes Infected... The ALIEN Ship begins to Flood and Move so they go back to the Salvage Ship.
A Alien Organism is Unleashed on the Salvage Ship which gets Stranded in the Bermuda Triangle, the Crew are Picked Off, and we see that some of them are TAKEN away and some are Egg Morphed, other Cocooned to the Walls. The ALIEN goes and Rapes we assume (Off Screen) a Female, then it is Distracted and Wounded... its ACID BLOOD then Eats though the Hull and the Ship starts to Sink but then the Engine Room Explodes...
We have TWO Survivors... one a Early Pregnant Female who has NOW got a Infected Fetus... well maybe Twins.. They are taken to another Ship...
The Company at Play demand the Location where they was looking but the Survivors Refuse... the Company would NOT Find anything but the Wreckage of the Salvage Ship where they recover a Large Egg.... this is taken to a Secret Outpost.
The Surviving Female has some Pains, she is Concerned about her 6-9 week Old Child (this was to be her Last Salvage Dive before Maternity Leave) but the Dr says it feels like she is more Long Term than that... she has a SCAN and something is Detected.. the Woman is taken to the Secret Base and has the Fetus Removed... she is Refused to see it.... but the StarChild if you would has a Connection to her... (i am thinking maybe her Unborn Child is also taken out), there becomes a like Physic link between her and the Incubus
This when the Second Half or last 3rd of the Series then takes place on the Outpost as the £"$£% Hit the Fan with TWO Monsters on the Loose... where it gets a bit more Alien Resurrection for some Action.
The Monsters that Feature are...
The Cecaelias: (Pod on the Derelict)
The Arachnoid: (Result of Egg Morph and its Procreation then after).
The Incubus: (Result of Rape on a Female)
The Incubus being what is Closely Related to our Xenomorph.
"*Cough* *cough* someone forgot about Alien 3. :-)"
I was talking about in General ;) i dont think Alien 3 should be Removed because it gave Ripley a Good Ending... a Sacrifice.... when Blomkamp and Weaver talked Alien V they kept on about Happy Ending for Ripley, Newt, Hicks and even Bishop..... NO THANK YOU!
I think that Alien R had Set Up some Potential, if they had the BALLS to try something Different... but then it would be Expected to see Eggs and Xenomorphs again and so i agree with Ridley Scott when he said there is ONLY so much Face Pulling, Chest Bursting and Snarling that you can do.
"Not sure if we will see the Engineers again but it would be bad to just throw them away."
I think there are Fans who would LOVE to see them again but only in like a Comic Book way... where the Angry SOB's come to Earth with Xenomorphs!
IF you are going to go for a WAR ON EARTH kind of Plot i feel it would be BEST to take Place after Alien R and i think that Alien R can UPLIFT the Plot...
Xenomorphs and Engineers with Ships and Technology... vs Colonial Marines... i mean come ON!!! it would be like Predator vs Caveman!
If our Defense is Marines then GOD help us.. but it would be GOD who is out to Destroy us.... Well Programed Androids/Robots should be better... but we know you can get Problems with A.I...
Thats NOT a attack on the Marines, i think it depends on HOW MANY of the Engineers come and Xenomorphs... as they are just Humans..
However with Ripley 8 you have a Super Human... if you could Clone or Use her DNA to Create Superior Military Force then that could Turn the Tables....... maybe they wont be a Match for the Engineers very own Genetically Engineered Freaks (LV-223 Guys) but with a Ripley 8 DNA... a Twist could be they could Communicate with the Xenomorph and they Turn on the Engineers...
A Downfall to a kind of Hive Mind Connection between Xeno DNA Super Soldiers and Xenomorphs could be IF the both Species then Cooperate for their own Combined Agenda.. they would be a BIGGER threat than the Engineers at this Point a Coalition of Xenomorph and Humans with Xeno-DNA would be BAD for the Galaxy!
"Hicks and Newt were not the main-thing anyways so who continue with them?"
I think we have to remember that Miss Weaver did want to have Ripley get Killed Off.... did they have to KILL our Newt?
Again you raise the Great Point of HOW do you have her on a Planet of Rapist! But the Biggest thing to Consider for those who was like "they Killed Newt" well Carrie Henn would have been about 15 when they was Shooting Alien 3 so they would have had to Cast another Actress... Unless the PLOT was changed to be 10 Years after ALIENS!
IF i was to Change ALIEN 3 i would have had it that Newt was where the ALIEN had came from... seeing her Chest Busted would been Shocking! It would also have made a Greater Loss to Ripley and Hicks!
Oh yes Hicks.... i would have kept him ALIVE and at the End after Ripley has Sacrificed herself it would UPLIFT his Character with the Loss of Newt and Ripley... and he would VOW that he would NEVER allow the Company to get its Hands on the Xenomorph again..
So you then have PASSED the Torch onto Hicks... for Potential Sequel.
"Perhaps a sort of common people versus intergalactic gangsters backed by WY?"
Certainly... what about Space Pirates i had mentioned that before... "what kind of Plunder is there on that Ship....." OPPS!
>>>what I want and what most people into the franchise want might be different things maybe.
I think everyone agrees on one thing - get a good, consistent story.
As a subjective being, I will say:
Unique ideas can be sacrificed in order to create a workable story. Prometheus is a great film; with the most inspiring ideas in the franchise, but it looks like a video artbook with little notes and no final conclusion.
Covenant, on the other hand, appears to be devoid of truly new ideas, but works better as a complete story.
The common ancestor - Alien: Engineers had both merits - new ideas and a complete plot.
To BigDave
So I will say - I don't care how the series will relate to other parts of the franchise - the main thing is that the story is complete and internally consistent.
Conflicts with other films don't bother me. There are few questions here between Alien and Aliens, there is a whole abyss of contradictions and nonsense between Aliens and Aliens 3, the same few questions with Alien 3 and AR. And, of course some conflicts between Prometheus and Alien, and even between Prometheus and Covenant + Covenant and Alien.
The franchise is already a big mess, and in order to put things together, you sometimes need to release conflicts on the brakes. Especially between Aliens and Alien 3. But Alien 3 fans don't seem to be worried. Then why should the new series be perfect and free from any conflicts?
"Prometheus better than Alien 3? Why?"
As Dr Shaw would say "because its what i choose to believe"
I loved the Score, and Visually it was Wonderful, i liked the PLOT.... but the Execution was Flawed but i liked it for its Potential. The Characters could have been better.
With Alien 3 it had grown on me, Visually its not that Great, but it does have some Solid Characters, and its a Fitting END to the Saga of Ripley with her Sacrifice.
Like with ALIENS its Now kinda Popcorn... but Visually its Great, it does indicate more of a agenda and Intelligence to the Xenomorph a bit compared to ALIEN.
As far as Sci-Fi Action Popcorn then ALIENS i think is the Pinnacle it is WELL EXECUTED and while its a 8/10 from me.. instead of 9/10 its still a Movie that i like... i Prefer ALIEN as it had the ENIGMA of WHO was that Pilot etc.
Alien R i do like HOW it tried something a Bit Different but the Execution was NOT so Good and well the Characters for the Most Part you just Never Connected... to me CALL was the ONLY real Interesting Character.... Ripley 8 to a degree.
When looking at the Future of the Franchise under DISNEY... with a RETCON with ALIEN V...
"Why do you think you're people made me?"
"We made you cuz we could."
But you then think WHY... WHY... what about Alien 3, Alien R and the Prequels what have you done Disney (in response to the RETCON).
The Reply....
"Sometimes to create, one must first destroy!"
@Thoughts_Dreams
Again you touch upon Good Points....
Personally i think the Biggest Problem with the Franchise is also what was its Biggest Draw.... The General/Casual Viewers will ASSOCIATE the ALIEN Franchise with the Xenomorph/Queen, Ripley and then Colonial Marines (also Weyland-Yutani are) i am NOT sure many would paid Attention to the Derelict/Space Jockey. The same goes with a Proportion of the Fanbase.
So when you think ALIEN then the thing that Pops into your Mind would be Eggs, Face Huggers, Chest Busters and Xenomorphs and then our Heroine Ripley.
When you are at a Cross-Roads on what to do Next (which we reached before the Prequels and was given AVP instead of a Alien V) then its WHERE do you go NEXT... and you can REMOVE say Ripley... even dont be Tempted to give us Ripleys Grandfather, Father etc etc... Need NO Connection at all.
But you do get some who NEED/WANT to see little Connections, so say if you got a movie set after ALIENS where you had Hicks Brother or Son in Search of WHAT had Happened to their Family Member then that is something that SOME would like to see as it gives a Connection to the Beloved Character and a Plot for WHY they would be out looking.... and ALIEN Isolation had Pulled this same kind of PLOT.
But i dont think you NEED to Connect to Previous Characters, likewise you dont have to have Weyland-Yutani (as Alien R never did).
But the ONE thing that is SYNONYMOUS with the Franchise is the ALIEN the Xenomorph.... ALIEN was Alien because it had the ALIEN (Xenomorph), ALIENS was Aliens because it had more than ONE (Xenomorph) and ALIEN 3 because it had Three (Joke).....
But my point being that a ALIEN: Prefix is Expected to have the Xenomorph..... EVERY MOVIE that has the Prefix has the Xenomorph in some Shape/Form.... The Exception was PROMETHEUS and they Dropped the ALIEN: Prefix because they was attempting to make a Connected Movie that is SET in the same Universe but it would NOT go and Contain the ALIEN (Xenomorph) or connect to ALIEN (Movie).
And so the ALIEN Brand Name becomes a Double Edged Sword because IF you are going to make a TV Show that would NOT be Connected to the Xenomorph... Then you loose some Brand Recognition... go and ask 1000 Random People have you heard of Prometheus and even show them the DVD Cover and your going to get a LOT who would NOT be Familiar with it, or that its within the ALIEN Universe. And so the ALIEN Prefix would HELP to get that Recognition/Marketing but along with having the Prefix then the Expectation that it should have the ALIEN would be expected by some... if NOT then you would have the Casual Viewer be like "HOW was that a ALIEN TV Show" and some Fans be like "Where the Feck was the ALIEN"
Even if you called it Weyland Yutani: Building Better Worlds then NOT everyone will know how its Connected and WHEN its pointed out they may be like oh "so where is the ALIEN"
A Colonial Marines TV Show may be Recognized more, but again it may Carry the Expectation of "where did the ALIEN go"
so the Franchise is Shackled with the ALIEN Name its what makes it Stand Out as its a recognized Brand but then it will Carry the Expectation of having the Xenomorph for MOST of the People. (by that inc Casual Viewers).
The Prequels with Prometheus had OPENED UP the Franchise, because we could look at ALIEN as being something that was TRULY ALIEN.. so those EGGS are ALIEN but then so was that SHIP, the PILOT.... and so when Expand on them, even with the Engineers then they are ALIEN and the Plot Opens it up to MANY Worlds, and MANY Species/Creatures and as they are NOT from Earth then they are ALIEN.... the Galaxy is ALIEN.
One Downfall of Prometheus was that the Creatures/Monsters it did-show maybe did-not have enough of a Connection to the Xenomorph and we NEVER really had a Relatable Monster given enough Screen Time... something which Alien: Engineers had much more of..
So when you are going to do a ALIEN Movie/TV Show and Especially with the Prefix then you would be Expected to have something they can RELATE to either those Eggs/Xenomorph or the Space Jockey/Engineers. But that does-not mean a Carbon Copy just something Familiar.
Anyway i will Copy my Pitch to a New Topic and make some Changes.... my Idea would have also tried to UPLIFT the Xenomorph, especially with the Episode: Incubus
So that it has its Own Topic to NOT go and Distract from the Official News/Story of the ALIEN TV SHOW.
Thoughts_Dreams: Fair enough. My issue with the comics is many people I talk to want a straight adaptation with Hicks Newt and Ripley as they were in those comics. Goes without saying they're all Cameron fan boys that hate 3. Aliens is my personal fave but I also love 3 and accept it's decisions. As for comics I wouldn't a story in the vein of Aliens Defiance. It had a great story, characters, and good balance of action and horror. Its right up there with Isolation for being one of the better Alien stories I encountered in the past decade.
And same with the Assembly cut of Alien 3. I think the last time I saw the theatrical version of 3 it was either on TV or vhs lol. I feel old now
I had this weird observation that AVP:R is just a weird remake of Resident Evil Apocalypse which itself is a mediocre movie. But again that shit is like 28 Days Later when compared to Requiem lol.
Chli:
"it was probably a wrong decision not to continue the story of Ripley, Hicks and Newt."
I disagree, Alien has never been about family and happiness, that would also have been a repetition and that to me would have been boring like an Alien 2.0. This would have made Aliens less special since it would have repeated itself but now thankfully we have one Aliens that we can enjoy.
Killing them off was a necessary thing because then you could try something else and not be tied to what happened there. I doubt that it would have been an interesting movie to have Hicks and Newt in a prison full off rapists and so on. Even Alien 3 by Gibson that had Ripley in a come felt kind of eh, so I think that they did the right thing in the end.
Many people think that the Star Wars sequels weren't that great but the way that I would have reacted to another Hicks and Newt-story would probably have been worse than how I reacted to the sort or rehash that the Star Wars sequels became. Hicks and Newt were not the main-thing anyways so who continue with them? They were never as interesting as Ripley although the characters were well-made.
A new movie in the Alien-verse should have nothing to do with what we have seen. The Engineers could be featured but other than that I would say move on. It's time to get interesting again, so don't make it about androids.
“Even James Cameron expressed doubt about killing off the main characters of Aliens in Alien 3. There was a special bond between Ripley, Newt and Hicks - a potential family.”
He can have his opinion, I don't agree at all. If he wants the franchise to have a feel good thing going on he could go somewhere else. You have Disney animated movies, and so on, but Alien isn't one of these things.
Episodic movies please, all the characters that you mentioned are done to me. Those from Aliens had their time and the rest are not interesting. I would rather move on than to see something that we have seen before. You can keep some of the themes but in a new story and new characters.
Wouldn't it be more likely that we will see games, comics, and so on? If we look at how the movies have done since after Alien 3 we can see that they haven't done that well. Prometheus did decent but that was probably because Scott and a bit of waiting since the last one.
Looking at Covenant and how it did I doubt that they will continue the David-story (thanks F for that). Maybe make new prequels and give it to someone that can write and a director that knows his or her limits maybe? Scott doesn’t seem to be able to do that.
No Blomkamp please, not interested in another Ripley story. Make something else, an independent movie more like Rogue One. There would be no Ripley, no David, for example. Give me something new that works, not like the prequels that messed things up.
“This Project had HOWEVER became Dead in the Water!”
Phew! Good! It's time to move on, Ripley should have stayed dead after 3.
“but the Question would be WHAT Movies would Survive as Canon?”
As long as they never touch Alien 3 I'm fine, they can do whatever they want with the rest. If they would improve what we have after Alien 3 then why not? I don't mean as in time-line but the prequels and Alien R (don't care about AVP and whatever).
Give me something new, new monsters, new worlds. An interesting story and well-made characters are required but other than that I’m open to different things.
“especially ALIEN and ALIENS are Considered so Iconic and Deserve their Place in the Franchise”
*Cough* *cough* someone forgot about Alien 3. :-)
“If this is the CASE then WHAT/WHERE do they take us?”
I would like to see survival-horror of some sort, one could say that it has been done to death but you can add new stuff to it. You can add new things to try to expand the franchise. Even though the prequels are disappointments we got new monsters, new worlds, and the Engineers. Not sure if we will see the Engineers again but it would be bad to just throw them away.
What I don't want is poorly made human characters and a focus on androids. F the focus on androids, that sucks even though they can be part of the movie (it worked with Ash and Bishop). The prequels made me think about what I don't want so that is something good I guess. Last but not least: don't cut out important parts just to get a certain run-time, that leaves out important parts and destroys the movie (the prequels show that).
“Sadly this may make them Conclude that Ripley, Xenomorphs with a Dash of Marines is the SAFE BET!”
How about a Rogue One about the Colonial marines without Ripley? This could show us new monsters and new worlds without it being Aliens 2. Keep the marines but try new things and also, please no 80s vibes - you got to update things. I could accept this, at least it’s something new, but we need people to care about.
We have had an action-movie, and horror-movies. Maybe there is a third genre that could work that are not far away from those but that you could add something different from. Perhaps a sort of common people versus intergalactic gangsters backed by WY?
Answering the thing about the trailers to AC, they were crappy because they were misleading and showed a better movie than we were given. I doubt that the movie would have been better just by having more action in it because the problems would still have been the same. One action-scene was with David and Walter, but it was still, yeah whatever since the android-parts wasn't what I watched it for.
The idea of a robot that starts to become self-aware and becomes a threat could work if you put it in the background as a part of the movie and have better human characters and have more humans versus monster-moments. For that to work you got to care about the characters and not just throw the monsters in there like Scott did. Covenant to me is more like Alien R in quality rather than Alien kind of quality, I'm not joking even though it's better than AR but that's not a huge achievement.
“So i think the Initial Box Office Numbers before Word of Mouth were LESS than i expected.”
Not surprising, they got rid of the Engineers, made it about an angry robot and had almost no characters worth a damn, plus they made the Xeno a creation of a bored robot. Not sure how anyone can't see how that will turn into average at best. Yeah, they replaced the Xeno-action with a long scene about fluting (yes I understand that they discussed creation there but what ever) which was long and slow. While the creation-theme isn't meaningless in itself it wasn't executed well.
Scott is not a writer, he can make great visuals but as far as the writing and the monster go, leave that to someone else because he isn't capable of handling that. It is doubtful that he will be involved in another alien-movie if we look at how the prequels turned out and that he had a huge part in what became of them. My guess about Scott's involvement and why I wrote that is because I try to imagine how the studio looks at it. Let him handle the visuals and that's it.
Spin-off or Franchise, whatever they decided it failed. They must have:
- Better human characters
- Less about robots
- Don't cut character-parts to get a run-time (both prequels are proof of that)
- Let the writers write, not the director
- No Ripley
BD:
I can do fine without Xenos as long as the story and the characters are well done. The Xenos and military seems like a copy of Aliens even though it hasn't got to be the case. Hopefully it won't be some nostalgia just to play safe (like they know that Aliens did great so they'll try to repeat it, that would be lazy). You could have Aliens and guns but take it into some other direction, just because movies have things in common doesn’t mean that they are the same.
Having it on earth reminds me of the Eric Red story, it didn't seem too interesting and we also got AVPR. By having it on some other planet the environment is alien as in unknown, I think that you'll need that.
“25-75 Years before ALIEN then thats going to Contradict the First Movie and the Prequels”
Not if it's made like a what-if kind of thing. It could be an alternate time-line, that could work. Making it contradict the first movie would be bad, not as concerned about the prequels though because they are not very good but they have their fans. About your list I would go with 1 or two. Retcon things, the only thing that I am worried that they would retcon is the first three movies because I’m not sure how any of them would be improved. Stay away from Alien 1-3.
“(If it leads to the Company had Created the Xenomorph).”
Oh hell no! Having David being responsible for it is bad enough but having it being a direct result by humans would be even worse. I want the beginning of it to not be a result of human activity, directly or indirectly which is why the Engineers making it is a good idea.
The prequels have some good things like the world-building, new monsters, the black goo, and the Engineers. What they didn't suceed with was the characters in general and who was responsible for the Xeno.
“when you look at the WHOLE FRANCHISE you can see we are looking at Corporate Greed, Personal Gain, Indications of Corporate Rivalry, CREATION and the Hubris of doing this... Experimenting to Create/Engineer something and the Hubris/Hazard of such!”
This, I would like to see new life-forms, new worlds, maybe new companies, new characters that are well-written and well-executed. You can have more than Ripley and Xenos is my point.
You can have about genetic stuff, the marines and warfare, corporations, and so on. Not sure if it would be about androids a lot, Covenant made me lose interest in that but you can have it as a small part of the story.
What if science is used for bad purposes, this is what the goo can be seen as partially, but you can make other things by using the same theme. You need more than interesting themes for it to work, you need a story and the characters. Ideas are not enough, which the prequels show - interesting ideas, poor result.
I won't bother with what kind of world that David would create, I'm done with him being the main-point. Throw it away and make something new with characters that I can support. You can have interesting ideas but the story and characters got to work. Prometheus and Covenant had interesting ideas and the stories were not totally wrong but the focus and the human characters were mostly wrong (they are mixed bags) and that's why we have what we have.
A TV-series could be a good thing but once again story and characters. Even the Xenos isn't what it should be about. The Xenos should be kept to just some scenes if you ask me.
“Have they got a Movie in the Works?”
With the pandemic going on? Who knows? I could do good with fewer effects if they get the story and characters right. They have many effects in the Transformer-movies and they are what they are.
I wouldn't mind if they would go beyond the Xenos but what I want and what most people into the franchise want might be different things maybe.
Corporate fuckery is a part of the franchise so that could be brought up at least in part. We don't have to stick with WY, we can have something new but not anything that exists in real life but something like a symbol for what's real.
NinXeno426:
You can look at old comics as one of the things to find inspiration from but you can look around for other things also. People can look up to political figures to find inspiration from and the same goes for material to movies. Be open to different ideas, combine them and make your own version but don't make a copy of something that is old.
“By blending both the timeless horror of the first Alien film with the non-stop action of the second, it’s going to be a scary thrill ride that will blow people back in their seats.”
I'm afraid that it will be like when Scott said that Alien Covenant would scare the crap out of people, which was an exaggeration. They need a good story and characters to get that right and focus on the human experience. A good point seems to be that they will not focus on some android-garbage.
Alien-things usually get the surroundings right, so I'm not worried about that. AVPR is an exception because it's crap. Even the surroundings in AR is alright but that can't save the movie from being a parody.
Keep the monsters in the dark, you know that it's there but you don't know where. It's almost like when you're a kid and go down in the basement, you're afraid of things but you can't see where they are so you make things up in your head.
Will it be the best since Alien 3? Maybe but I doubt it, at least I hope that it will be better that we have seen coming after 1992. Don't get your hopes too high is my point or else you'll likely be disappointed.
DK: “Disney never gave me anything worthwhile since I was four years old”
Fucking hell DK! That was hilarious, it gave me repetitive laughter. This is from Star Wars episode 4 but I think that it kind of fits
Obi-wan: “Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough but your uncle wouldn’t allow it” *Gives him the first Alien-movie*
Where does the franchise go. Go indicates something that is moving, moving is into the future, the light-saber was given in the future to Luke, so I think that it fits.
Another one: “Until they give us interesting stories and characters we are fucked.”
1, 2, and 3 are good but then it became too much about the look and having creatures and less about the humans. Even though the prequels are alright in general they suffer the same thing, interesting stories but mostly lame characters. Alien Covenant became too much about the androids and had mostly poorly done characters and therefore failed. If I would only have to pick one favorite it would be Alien 3.
My list is like this
1. Alien 3 (the assembly cut is my favorite and then the theatrical)
2. Alien
3. Aliens
4. Prometheus and Alien Covenant to the same degree. Prometheus looks better but the characters are better in Covenant. Both movies fail with characters
5. AR
6. AVP
7. AVPR - Alien Versus Poop Rising
AVPR is so bad it doesn't even have a story. It has some random scenes put together in whatever order for about 90 minutes. What an absolute stinker. Prometheus and Covenant are kind of equal in quality, unfortunately, but are masterpieces compared to AVPR. There are probably fan-edits that make them better.
BD: Prometheus better than Alien 3? Why? Having different opinions is fine, I just wonder why you put it before Alien 3 because to me it doesn't even come close. I mostly watch the assembly cut, it's better.
Gotten rather serious 'round here lately?
It is nice to see some levity around here again.
Right. Can't say I plan on watching Requiem (or AVP for that matter) anytime in the foreseeable future. They're right there with Colonial Marines in my "I'm done with you" pile.
I wouldn't waste time watching AVPR just to rip it apart unless it received the MST3K treatment. For a 90 ish minute movie, I could see at least 10 good shorts from DUST or Omeleto in that time allotment.
Let's try again. I already sent this but my connection dropped and now I'm looking at a small comment box and a white scified background lol.
The only time I loved AVP was when I was 14 and I saw it opening weekend in theaters. It came out in time for my 15th birthday and good god I remember being so bored and yawning through most of it lol. I've had it on DVD for almost 16 years and have watched it probably 4 maybe 5 times since. I've watched Covenant that many times in 3 and a half years. Covenant has it's fare share of weaknesses but I manage to enjoy it. Only time I didn't really enjoy it was when I saw it in theaters. In AVP's defense, the last time I watched was the least I hated it since I first saw it. Perhaps it's a grower?
Requiem I last watched about four years ago. Actually right around the time I joined which was shortly after Christmas 2016, right after the Covenant trailer dropped. I watched it with my sister and we had a blast tearing it apart lmao. It's only really good for an ironic viewing lol.
Duplicate post, my signal sucks today
Well Guys thats the Rough Synopsis for the First Three Episodes its just a Basic Pitch so Needs Fleshing Out with Character Names etc... the Idea is a Slow Build Up we can gain some Background on Characters and Parties at Play.
I have the Rough Pitch for the First 6 Episodes its the 7th when the USARC are involved and then they go and take a Specimen to a Secret Base, the Survivors of the Salvage Ship Charon refuse to give Details of where they had their Encounter.... but another Salvage Team in Future will Discover the Wreckage of the Charon
The Next 3 Episodes are... (and i will explain them latter).
EP04 The Cecaelias
EP05 Hystera
EP06 Dreadnaught
However the Dreadnaught may be Moved a Few Latter like 7th or 8th... Idea is for 10-12 Episodes
Regarding the Beast.... well it makes its Appearance in EP4 and maybe this would have to be a 2 Part or the 2nd Part given a Different Name as the Beast Ravages the Salvage Ship before it is Sunk... This Beast is NOT the same as the Xenomorph... but YES it will try and Egg Morph its Victims.
The Egg Morphs i am thinking that ONE maybe Taken to a USARC Research Ship the Beast from this would be a LITTLE different to the Beast from the Spores/Pods.
But there would also be another Beast that is Gestating in a Survivor of the Charon Salvage Ship.. something thats more like our Xenomorph.
With EP03 Awakening i am Considering that its a Tremor that causes the Team Member to Fall into the Pit of Pods. This can be USED as a Plot Device to have the Leviathan/Dreadnaught sink into a Chasm.
Which could make me Rename EP06 Dreadnaught to something else as it is the Conclusion that the Sunken ALIEN Ship carries a Dreaded Cargo.. but it may stay... but i think that the Exploration again of the Dreadnaught is maybe there to Explore in a Season Two ;)
"Alien universe shorts like IGN"
Ideally this is what i would have DONE.. take Elements of the BEST of them, and Expand to make a 6-10 Episode Story set say between 2150-2200
EDIT
Looking at some Concepts from the Prequels and some Work also done by Neville Page i could imagine a Amalgamation that could Produce something like this for The Cecaelias
PS i apologize if this is Going Off Topic... i may take these Ideas to a New Topic if thats Easier.
ok guys i had thought about HOW you could do a ALIEN Series in the NOT to Distant Time-Line... here is the Rough Synopsis and Name for the First 6 Episodes.... after the 5th is where it begins to become something more Familiar with our Beast from ALIEN.
The Broad Synopsis is in 2047 after the Loss of Project Daedalus a Search and Rescue Team go looking in the Bermuda Triangle for the Wreckage of the USARC Daedalus but what they Discover is Truly out of this WORLD. The Team Accidentally Awaken a Starbeast from its Slumber.
EP01: Daedalus Down
In 2047 the Experimental USARC Daedalus is due to make its Return Trip from the SUN, a Ship that OPENS UP the Possibility of Interstellar Travel to become a Reality. On re-entry to Earth the Ship suffers a Malfunction and heads towards the Bermuda Triangle where it Disappears.
The United States Astronomical Research Corporation goes to dispatch a Salvage Team to go to where the Last Signal from the Daedalus in the Hope of recovering the Valuable Ship and its Data.
EP02: Leviathan
A Deep Sea Salvage Team are sent to the Last known Coordinates of the Downed Interstellar USARC Daedalus. Where they Fail to locate where the Starship could have Landed, but they Detect something else as they close in on what their Sensors Detect as a Large Object, it becomes Apparent they have Discovered something HUGE that is Partially Buried at the Bottom of the Sea.
EP03: Awakening
After Surveying the Wreckage and having trouble contacting HQ the Salvage Teams Leader gives the Order to go and Investigate. A Team of Three go down in a DSSRV (Deep Sea Salvage and Reconnaissance Vehicle). As they Probe the ALIEN looking Wreckage (has a Familiar Aesthetic to us) they Discover what looks like a Entrance and they make there way inside.
Inside they are in awe at what they see, a Construction that is Nothing like what they have seen before, Bonelike Architecture/Construction that looks somewhat Mechanical and somewhat Organic. One of the Team wants to Head Back as they dont know what they are Dealing with but the 2nd in Command says they have a Job to do and they Continue to Explore.
EP03: Awakening
The USARC manage to Contact the Salvage Ship Charon about the Progress of the Search but the Ships Captain/Team Leader decides to say they have yet to Find anything and LIE about the Discovery of the Buried Wreckage they Found so they can keep it to themselves for a while and Claim Salvage Rights.
Meanwhile the Team that went down to Explore the Sunken Leviathan continue their Exploration, until they seem to Activate some Door that OPENS... after they Notice some Hieroglyphs and Cuneiform and go close for a Study. They then go down a Passage where the Ship has been Sealed from Water, but it soon Starts to Fill.
They detect the Inside of the Ship has Oxygen Levels, but then as they go to Explore they detect some Faint CO2 and Notice a Strange Green Mist that has a Illuminated Glow.
One of the Team Proceeds ahead while the others Wait back in Caution, saying that maybe they should get out, as the Water is coming in Fast. The Team Member who had gone to Investigate the Mist, takes a look at the Section Covered in the Mist, and Notices something... strange like Cocoons, he says that he has seen something that look like Strange Fruit, like a Coconut, then he slips on a Surface that has became WET with the Water and Falls into the Mist.
Upon Close Inspection these are NOT like Coconuts they are Strange Cocoon like Pods, a Brownish Green. As the Team Member gets up he places his Hand and Touches one and then Notices his Hands kind of Sink into its Flesh and leaves a Imprint. As he Calls out to the others to come and take a Look, he takes his Eye Off the Prize and then all of a Sudden it OPENS and some kind of Cephalopod looking Organism it Latches onto his Face Plate and he Struggles with the Creature, has he Climbs out of the Pit, he Falls to the Floor. The other Team Rush to him and Discover the Organism has somehow managed to make a Hole in his Helmets Visor.
The remaining Team Members Discus/Argue over what to do, the One Member says look we Need his Helmet in Tact as it has Recordings of our Search, this Place is Filling with Water Fast and could make a 2nd Reconnaissance more Difficult. They Notice that his LIFE SIGNS are Fine and see the Cephalopod looking Creature Pulsating/Breathing.
What have they AWAKENED?
The Team Manage to get the Victim back to the DSSRV and Head to the Surface.
HULU would do well by basically making Alien universe shorts like IGN did to start with. See what the viewer reception is like before investing and diving into something almost no one will like.
It think it depends on if we are looking at LIKE, or Really Like or Dont Mind ;)
And i HATE ALIENS!!! Joke... it has Grown Less on me, over the Years, while ALIEN 3 has Grown on me... about 20 Years ago i thought Aliens was Great and Alien 3 and Alien R kinda Sucked!
I gonna have to say for me its maybe 3/6, but then the maybe it could be 4/6.... Not Inc the AVP Movies if i did add them then AVP has NOT Quite done enough for me to make it a 4/5 out of the 8.
I i was put on the Spot i would have this Order...
ALIEN, ALIENS, Prometheus, Alien 3, (Alien Covenant, Alien Resurrection and AVP kinda Tied i cant think which Order Next) and thats it... what you mean there was ONE i have Missed? LOL
Maybe Difficult for some of the Writers they Hired in the Franchise too ;)
